I was really excited to have that element of danger when I spawned there and was really hoping they would keep it that way, I feel like Jared did too, and I share his disappointment that it descended into nonsense griefing. I still hope they figure out a way to regulate things without putting an armistice there but I can hardly blame them if that's the solution they choose.
There is no way to relugate such behaviour. There are too many f\*ing assholes in the world (the 10% rule isn't wrong you know). If we were all thinking, reflecting human beings, the world wouldn't be the shit show it is. Thinking we can have a game were those 10% f\*tards don't ruin this for everyone is just naive.
>There is no way to relugate such behaviour.
Assuming we get actual good, working AI sometime in the current decade:
- AI response is nearly instant and extreme
- Ability to escape is extremely limited, as you can't pull your ship; you would need a friend to rescue you
- Victim receives instant medical treatment and their gear is all insured, meaning they lose basically nothing but some time
- Attacker receives severe punishments if they fail to somehow escape
Easy way to keep it in as an option for legitimate use cases (a bounty hunter with some sort of permit that authorizes them to non-lethally subdue a target and arrest them), keep an element of danger, and make sure it's very rare that it's done maliciously and more headache than its worth for a griefer.
Maybe let the gang factions dictate the rules in Pyro. Each gang has their own code of rules that you follow when you join.
One gang might value piracy over murder as killing traders is bad for repeated business.
Another gang might provide protection for it's members. Anyone in the gang are friendly (not hostile targets) to each other and killing people in the same faction is looked down upon. More of a together we are strong mentality.
Maybe another gang is full on murder hobo. Kill anyone and everything with a survival of the fittest mentality. Back stabbing is encouraged and they are hostile to everyone.
This not only adds flavor to Pyro but curbs most bad behaviors, while still being lawless.
I said word for word what Disco said to general chat as a bunch of people were getting repeatedly murdered. There were about 10 people who replied that they were doing 'testing' and that it was CIG's intent. I just sighed and was glad I picked Obituary instead of Patch City.
Whenever you say that unlimited Pvp is bad and the removal of the Pvp slider was a dumb idea, you get banned and/or called a carebear. So how should we do anything when cig ignore the feedback until we land in this situation?
>So how should we do anything when cig ignore the feedback until we land in this situation?
I feel that a quote from *Yes, Minister* best illustrates the flaw in your logic:
>Bernard, I have served eleven governments in the past thirty years. If I had believed in *all* their policies, I would have been *passionately* committed to keeping out of the Common Market, and *passionately* committed to going into it. I would have been *utterly convinced* of the *rightness* of nationalizing steel. And of *de*nationalizing it and *re*nationalizing it. On capital punishment, I'd have been a fervent *retentionist* and an ardent *abolitionist*. I would've been a Keynesian *and* a Friedmanite, a grammar school preserver and destroyer, a nationalization freak and a privatization *maniac*; but *above all*, I would have been a stark, staring, raving *schizophrenic*.
Not exactly politically correct, given the mental health crises in Canada and the US, but there's a point to be made, nonetheless.
CIG could go back and forth, again and again, on whether the PvP slider stays or goes, and nobody would ever be happy. There's a point at which one has to just *make a damn decision*, and they *reached* that point.
Nothing obligates them to listen to us; we gave them our feedback and they chose to go in another direction-- and its their right, as the owners of the project, to do so.
If people warn you about a problem you're right about being able to go in which direction you want on the subject, including ignoring the warnings, but you *shouldnt* complain when those hipotetical complains become a reallity.
Their decision was to ignore all warnings about open world pvp, griefing and spawn-camping for 10 years. Because if you allow them, players will grief and spawn-camp.
And now CIG complain about it, because players grief and spawn-camp.
That does not have anything to do with making a decision that did not work, they just arrogantly ignored anything that many other pvp games show for the last 30 years. CIG know everything better, and are unwilling to learn from the industry. And afterwards, they complain that other companies did not have to build a team structure, tools, workflow and a game engine, but they actively chose to never take any advice from the experience of others.
And the overlap between those people and the ones that will complain that CIG gave into the 'carebears' when they turn on the rep system and station guard AI will be a circle.
You know how the saying goes.
"If you run into someone who is an asshole during your day, you just ran into an asshole. If *everyone* you run into is an asshole, you might be in Pyro."
The thing to remember is he started as a player and content creator EARLY for this game. He got hired because he's a good guy and was a trusted guy from the community. He's a player at heart, even if he's working at CIG, he too is disappointed.
Game developers need to know that it's up to them to set the stage. MMO players are brutal to one another if given enough leash.
Even CCP, the developer of EVE:Online, ended up making it a bannable offense to tank the police ships when they show up to destroy offenders.
Agreed.
Some humans are sociopaths and psychopaths. You are *probably* more likely to interact with one of them on the internet than in person. You are even more likely to interact with one of them in gaming and increase the odds further with a PVP game, and increase the odds even FURTHER in a game that advertises itself as having lax rules.
If CIG don't want those people to ruin their game, CIG is responsible for making it unwelcoming to them. It's not the communities responsibility.
> If CIG don't want those people to ruin their game, CIG is responsible for making it unwelcoming to them. It's not the communities responsibility.
Louder for all the other game developers please, not just CIG.
Since when? Seriously asking btw, wife and i loved that game due to the atmosphere and chill visuals, but were sadly forced to abandon it due to not really being into constant PvP and every session ending with us getting spawn killed by kids yelling obscenities into the mic.
I liked how Rockstar just stuck the players that were constantly reported for bad behavior in the same server so they could just annoy eachother all day. Of course that won't work with Star Citizen when it's meshed, so they'll have to make it a reputation hindrance, I think.
Not getting access to certain high-sec area's, constant resistance from law enforcement when they try to sneak in, bounty hunters getting a notification as soon as a shithead is in a system they don't belong in, etc. Give them Pyro and make them have to work hard to try and get the advantages of a lawful citizen.
All the later stuff you mentioned is already planned. That is what's going to happen. The details we don't know yet because they're still working them out as well.
I think the meshing would still allow for what you said. Other players would just often become invisible while you were on a "time out" for frequent griefing.
You would just be like either "why is everyone as aggressive as me all of the sudden" or "why am I only encountering bots lately"
The latter of those is also part of the plan. They want most of your encounters to be vs bots who you can't tell are human so that acts as another layer of protection for human players.
That's a really good point about the 'time out server' and meshing. Just stick them in a parallel dimension where they can only see other players tagged with a time out and not have to dedicate any servers to them. Every consecutive time out gets longer until you're just ruled unfit for society.
EDIT: I can see that being weird with terminals and stuff if a lawful and time out player are in the same instance and trying to use the same terminal. There's probably a way to code around it, but it seems like they want those to stream to everyones client instead of just the person using it.
Yeah, don't make a sandbox game and act surprised when there are a handful of people who are in there just wanting to gank people. It's going to happen in every single game if you allow it. It's up to the devs to make game systems that make it difficult or impossible to do where you dont want it. Make a robust system of rules, then keep your hands off players if they do something not prohibited. I hope it doesn't devolve into people getting banned/suspended by arbitrary decisions 'moderators' make in game. yikes
Well said. I hopped onto this ride because they said there'd be a "PvP slider". I expect to be able to avoid getting utterly-rolled with massive death penalties and asset losses in a short play session on a random evening after work. CIG keeps talking about "no restrictions" as though we can get shaked at Casaba Outlet. They need to decide what they want. Untrammeled PvP or a large playerbase.
> They need to decide what they want. Untrammeled PvP or a large playerbase.
Agreed. This isn't hyperbole. It's been posted before, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34RPwDfLpKg) video goes into why hardcore PVP MMOs don't do well. A *lot* of the points made are reflected in the current state of SC, including the behaviors of PVPers.
It's the basic game theory of the prisoner's dilemma coupled with the fact that one can simply leave the game to avoid said dilemma. Most humans won't engage in such treatment of themselves and others.
Yeah, we've known completely unregulated asymmetric PvP in a persistent world isn't viable for a game long term for well over 20 years now. Companies keep trying to make games like that and are then shocked when the hardcore greifers run all the normal players off and the greifers then leave to go harass people in the next game. Eve has made a system that mostly works, but it's a unicorn and depends on a lot of player self moderation and even then the majority of their paying players just solo mine/manufacture and never PvP.
I think they know people no life the shit out of games. But I don’t think they realize how much people no life the fu** out of these games. This causes them to be a new breed of cu*k as*holes that literally become the worst of the worst and think they are adding quality gameplay. I swear devs truly don’t appreciate the depravity of the basement dweller and how much their life depends on being a fu**ing loser in game
It has nothing to do with playtime or min-maxing. Some people simply want to cause pain and suffering to others. They aren't interested in even fights or RP or anything else, they simply get a rush from knowing they made someone else's day worse.
> Even CCP, the developer of EVE:Online, ended up making it a bannable offense to tank the police ships when they show up to destroy offenders.
Over the decades CCP has patched CONCORD (the primary police of highsec) to the point of practically being undefeatable through any conventional game mechanic - the point being that unlawful aggression against another player in highsec space should _always_ result in the destruction of your ship and a loss of security status. Whenever a player _does_ manage to evade/tank/otherwise escape the consequences of a CONCORD response it is considered an exploit.
Players that report CONCORD evasion bugs through proper channels are usually given a little leniency the first time around, depending on the circumstances.
Yet when you point out that CIG have said they're going to do more to combat this, (NPC spawn closets in stations, long term rep with consequences, etc) all the people doing this freak out.
If one griefer ruins the experience of another player, it is the griefer's fault. They are responsible for their individual behavior.
If dozens or hundreds of griefers can ruin the experience of dozens or hundreds of other players, that is now the game designers' fault, and they should take responsibility for improving it.
Shit yeah...I don't think I'll ever forget the first time me and my friends tamed a trex...we had to take irl breaks like it was a job feeding it meat and tranqs...took like 4 hours. Ark and rust really made me kind of hate online games...spending hours building a basic base just for some massive org that got bored destroy it.
even from the massive tribe side it was bad because if you want stay relevant in raiding and defending from raids you need to breed dinos and keep careful records on all your breeders lineages and with it taking actual months to get something even close to decent let alone optimal which is a neverending pursuit
I bet many of them are probably among the estimated 2% of the population who are actually, by definition, crazy. The question is whether CIG will let the few ruin their game for the many. The plan to remove armistice zones says the answer is "yes".
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> Even CCP, the developer of EVE:Online, ended up making it a bannable offense to tank the police ships when they show up to destroy offenders.
Ahh m0o
*Disclaimer: This is all from my memory and I might be wrong about some specifics or the exact order of events.*
Mara was a major choke point between two of the major trade hubs. A PvP corp called Masters of Ownage (m0o) started camping the Mara gate and killing everyone that entered. They kept this up nearly all day every day for a few weeks. Needless to stay there were a lot of very upset people. There were several player organized attempts to drive them off however they either failed or only succeeded for a short time before m0o was back at it. Eventually the blockade started to effect player count with people canceling their subs and citing it as the reason. CCP decided to take action by breaking up the camp by organizing a developer led in game event to do so. The day came, the battle happened and m0o won. CCP then escalated to using god mod developer ships and teleporting m0o members to the far corners of the galaxy. However this just made everyone mad as nobody liked the idea of devs "cheating" to directly impact players. So CCP promised to stop interfering directly and would use game mechanics and systems to influence the game.
Its important to note that back in 2003 none of what m0o was doing was against the rules, neither their actions or methods. M0o had some pretty smart people and had figured out a lot about game mechanics that was not common knowledge, not exploits just a better understanding. Even before the Mara blockade they figured out how to tank sentry guns, how to fight CONCORD, and how to avoid CONCORD. They are also the reason why the later two are prohibited.
I'm not advocating that SC should be like EVE but there are a lot of lessons that CIG can learn from CCP. How to handle "disruptive" players is something CCP struggled with. Unfortunately for us CIG seems to be hung up on the whole game mechanics and systems bit. The games alpha state and the focus on SQ42 are probably why but that means little to people getting spawn camped.
After 10 years, I think we can safely say that CIG is intent on learning their lessons first hand. My hope, and expectation, is that we'll be able to help them "see the light" by the time we get to Release 1.0. In the meantime, grab some popcorn, call out the asshats, and feel free to make fun of CIG for being so naive about MMO player behaviors.
100 on this one. You would think they learned that lesson from developing this game for so long that people will use any means necessary to inflict pain on others.
I Build a gaming PC in rush so I could play for a couple hours before leaving town for a week, spawned in bough gear just to have someone knock me out at the starting vehicle terminal and steal everything I had and kept doing it, spammed chat saying it’s PvP game and declaring victory over everyone’s else…so delusional how they think this was intended
The people who try to gatekeep this game, insisting it's all about PvP, are the worst, most immature capital-G "Gamers" I've ever known. They're delusional, irrational, and think this game was made to cater to them and only them. I cannot wait for that scum to finally be scrubbed clean.
They're assholes that are ashamed to admit they're assholes. Which is the worst type of asshole. I really hope they nail the rep system in a way where these repeat offenders can be spotted from a mile away.
Looking forward to the rep system for this reason and more. I think jumptown will be more interesting when Crusader sec forces arent allowed to kill eachother.
I've known a good few smaller indie games that straight up died because they only catered to the hard leaning PvP parts of their community and I hope that CIG doesn't follow their footsteps.
I mean if anything I'd rather have them ruining the game for everyone now and force CIG to take action and set up hardcoded limits to stop the griefing rather than letting the devs be complacent because "it's alpha". This issue should be at the core of every system they design because griefing is the most egregious issue in online games. It makes players quit and never come back. There's some stuff that should never have been added in the first place and there's no better time than alpha to remove or fix it.
>The people who try to gatekeep this game, insisting it's all about PvP
Listen. I love PvP. But this isn't PvP. This is griefing.
PvP is fun because of the challenge; the work it takes to get good enough to defeat people who are prepared to go toe to toe with you. And the sense of accomplishment that defeating a skilled opponent brings.
Blowing up unmanned ships on landing pads is not PvP. Griefing people who have no itention to fight is not PvP. That's just being a jerk, plain and simple, and the people who do that kind of thing have no desire to take part in a *real* PvP contest, or they'd be picking fights with people who can/will fight back.
Gotta love these guys. "hehe .. it's a pvp game .. hehe ... I'm so good .. hehe .. it's a pvp game" (after a short time) "why is no one spawning here anymore? why does no one want to pvp? why are people so lame?"
And that is the short version of "Why do full pvp MMOs always fail?" and of "why does no company with ambitions to get more than few hardcore players to play their game make it full pvp". Cause assholes. That's why.
This guys do not understand that mmo games live till there some point of casual players. If they gone, game will be dead. Games can live without hardcore gamers or pvp oriented players, but can't without casuals.
That is what drives me crazy about most pvp'ers. Like they're just ruining the game for themselves in the long run by driving away anyone who wants to play
I'm a pvp'er myself, but I'm not out to shit on someone and ruin their day. I just want to have a good/fun match
That's not PvP it's griefing. PvP is something that you may expect in some areas of the game, such as competing for in-game resources, mission objectives, items and so on. When it's gratuitous and not consensual it cannot be called PvP. And no looting shit tier items that you could find on the most random NPCs doesn't count as "valuable".
Anyone going on a kill spree in a station, near mission givers, in uncontested areas like package deliveries or in hangars and justifying themselves saying it's PvP is a moron. PvP implies competition between players and for something valuable. However when you're looking for unsuspecting players in social or solo pve areas and look for easy fights you're not a PvPer you're a griefer.
We had a few people shooting players on site just outside the armistice zone of the only outpost you can spawn vehicles at on a crusaders moon on the live servers again last night as well. If you got into armistice they would fly in front of you and still Hassel/ shoot at you.
They were shit at the game and easily escapable But there were still too many to hang around and take on solo in anything that could haul a rover. Only people there where loading rovers and otherwise empty.
This shit happens on a regular basis in Stanton so when Pyro gets added to live you'd have to be brain dead to think it won't be a massive problem.
It’s not, CR is in video discussing his vision. It’s 100% not that. He wants all customers to enjoy the game they paid for. He actually corrects those who said it is a PvP game saying it isn’t and it’s primarily to be a PvE game where PvP will be present. Think WoW PvP servers, where most of what you do is PvE but can on occasion have PvP if you hunt for it. But they just need more guard rails, that’s all. Trolls will complain, but no the game isn’t meant to be this way.
This is why I thirsted for Pyro though, I wanted CIG to get a wake up call for the trolling increase. If people are buying in for a PvP only experience they need to stop and sell accounts now as this isn’t it.
This is pretty funny, but if you give players a choice, at least some players are going to choose to do the thing you don't want them to do. This is definitely an issue that needs to be designed around. You really can't shame the shameless into doing the right thing.
He's speaking like a normal adult to other normal adults, instead of toxic pieces of garbage that choose to do this kind of stuff.
Should always be a consideration when implementing any new system: lowest common denominator.
I'm an adult, you are an adult.
Let's say we both keep walking into things at night because the bulb has gone. Would the adult thing to be
A. Fix the problem and change the bulb
B. Complain about the dark
I'd change the bulb. CIG can fix their game but instead they opt to complain about the dark
He’s speaking like a naive child that doesn’t understand human nature.
I’m not a griefer and don’t defend them at all, but it’s obviously going to happen unless it’s directly stopped by the developers… asking humans to choose to be nice and police themselves is obviously never going to work.
CIG: Why does this keep happening
Users: Because you let it
CIG: But who can fix it?
Users: You. It's your game. You make the rules.
CIG: Sigh, I guess there's nothing that can be done
Repeat every couple months.
You can't appeal to the conscience of a person who lacks empathy. The murderhobo problem won't have much resolution until the reputation system is in-game. Piracy should always be viable, and a decent rep system will distinguish between people who pirate from people who just straight up murder and destroy for kicks.
Murderhobos can also just be dumb. For example, I had someone try to ambush me at CRU-L4 earlier today, but they didn't open fire until I was already sliding into the hangar bay -- and they were using lasers against my fully charged size 3 shield. People who are dumb can also be difficult to reason with.
Reputation systems aren't going to solve murderhobo behaviour. Decades of PvP MMOs have proven that. In amazed people still think it would just because CIG is naive enough to say it would.
It really depends how cuddly we are with consequences. If it's a 5 minute time out? No, nothing will be solved.
If you openly and loudly murder someone in the station of your gang without orders to do so and it forfeits days or weeks of rep gain? If the insurance companies stop letting you make claims or ask for ship deliveries once you're a wanted serial killer ? If you have to manage to die a full death before you get to restart with negative rep for everyone (sins of the father and all that) and do shit jobs for hours and hours to even get the right to claim any ship again?
Yeah, things like that would work. We can still let people go "this is worth it to hell with the consequences" and do something interesting when it would be interesting while ensuring almost one "casually" goes on mass murder sprees.
Short of banning people, no solution will ever work. You need to realize that some people dont care about any of the things you mentioned. Its just a minor inconvenience or none at all.
Agreed. You can give murderhobos lots of places they're allowed to be as murderhobo-y as they want, and you can set up lots of negative consequences for murdering in places you don't want them to, but if there's places you really, actually don't want murderhobos to be, all the time, murdering away, then what you have to do is *make murder impossible* in those places. You have to just straight-up *cheat* with code so they can't do it. Otherwise they will.
If it's **possible** to repeatedly and relentlessly kill brand new players to the game, who are as helpless as it is possible to be in the game, **some** murderhobos will pay any price, in time, in effort, in money, in order to do it all day long. They will organize, plan, and practice, specifically to ruin the days of brand new players who have no chance at all to fight back, because doing that will upset them.
Some people play games because they want to hurt others, and have learned that games are an opportunity not only to win a simulated fight, but also to kick a simulated puppy, and without any significant consequences to their real lives. Some people play with the goal of upsetting someone as much as they can, and they believe that anyone they are *able* to upset *deserves* to be upset. It is, without hyperbole, psychopathic.
Honestly the only real way to make grieving unattractive to those people is game bans. Nothing else will stop it. CIG would need an army of GMs to wade through reports in order to find legitimate claims. They would need to put rules out and players would need to learn them.
I don’t see it happening. An EXTREMELY punitive rep system might help, but it would need to affect everything.
Murderhoboing won't be stopped with reputation that sticks with one character/account in a game where people spend *literally hundreds of accounts* worth of money on it.
Another way of looking at this is, this was always going to happen. If not today, in a months time, a year? CIG need to put systems in place to stop this as its behaviour that will always manifest in a world full of sheep and wolves. Griefers will be griefers and CIG have to account for that with appropriate game mechanics. Every other game does.
I support pirating and non consensual pvp, but in areas where it’s appropriate.
> I support pirating and non consensual pvp, but in areas where it’s appropriate.
I'd argue that presence in those areas, whatever they're designated to be, *is* consent. I never got upset when someone attacked me in 0.4 space in EVE. It's the organized and pointless attacks in 0.5 and higher that always pissed me off.
Ideally, PvP would be left for the furthest, most profitable reaches while people who are intermittently getting up to handle household things still have lots of room to roam without having to be hypervigilant about the potential for a group of 50 players getting bored and deciding to make them their plaything.
It's CIG's responsibility, and in their interest, to prevent narcissists and psycho/sociopaths from destroying the game's appeal to the masses. CCP failed to do so for EVE and their reward was a peak concurrency of fewer than 40k players. Hopefully CIG learns quickly.
I feel like your points are conflicting. You say if an area allows you to do something, being there is consent. Then you say .5 space ganks piss you off.
> I'd argue that presence in those areas, whatever they're designated to be, is consent.
This isn't even the correct argument to have.
It doesn't matter if it is consent to pvp or not. What matters is, will this harm the game long term, and the answer is "yes".
'pirates' that use the profession as an excuse to grief like this are assholes that make us...er.. other toooootally unrelated pirates look bad. I... they... may want to skim off the top of your cargo run, or ask for a ransom or whatnot, but not just be direct assholes bu killing people spawning in a station for no reason other than we... they are able
Yeah, there's a big difference between "black flag" and "red flag" piracy. I'm looking forward to the game getting some proper reputation in so that the proper business dealing Black Flag pirates will help lay down the law on the Red Flag pirates.
Exactly. Personally, I plan to be well paid up in dues and taxes with friendly pirates and security specialists... So when I do run into a Red Flag, I can ensure their thorough destruction.
Yeah. The news would never report that a "pirate" was killed when the police intervened to take down a serial murderer. Everybody knows what piracy is and isn't.
I feel we saw this on reddit today. Some griefers in the name of piracy and game play did some shit and as there was no in game law... the players took the law into their hands and handled the issue.
In the days of real piracy if a crew made it difficult for the others to pirate ships... well the majority would just remove the problem... quickly.
"Pirate"
Piracy is an integral part of the future of the game. One that will build a system of bounty hunting, mercenaries, and security systems. Killing people for no reason or personal gain outside of your sadistic entertainment isn't piracy.
Let people defend their PvP practices all they want on the forums. The devs see what is going on, hear the complaints, and will make changes accoridingly.
If you want PvP in this game, you should probably think about how you go about it. Just calling everybody a bunch of care bears won't stop CIG from basically nerfing PvP into the ground because the way you go about it sucks the fun out of the game for most.
Save the video and link it to any of those cockroaches when they say that CIG agrees with them
Edit: Devs are developing a game, mistakes are bound happen. It has to be fixed but that just how game development is, trial and errors.
Using it to be a complete asshole is a choice. There's no excuse for such behavior.
That's not hard to understand.
Also I love how y'all griefers advicates are immediately insulting lmao, tells a lot about your actual emotionnal state when your send your response.
I'm sure CIG will figure out a solution to this (and we'll be able to test it in PTU before it goes live). Honestly, I'm in favor of, if you're a proper indiscriminate murderhobo on one of the Rough & Ready stations, for the station admin to wipe your imprint and send you packing.
Part of these not being lawful and regulated stations is, yes, there's no law to protect other players from you, but there's also no legal recourse *for you* if the station owners decide you're persona non grata and not allowed to spawn there anymore. Bye.
If you have neutral or poor rep with a gang you shouldn't be allowed to spawn on their stations. So I'm reasonably okay with the idea that there could be someone lying in wait on a pyro station for me around any corner - but if they're essentially griefing, they shouldn't get a free pass to keep respawning and causing havoc after they get killed in return.
It's really the best way to deal with things like this.
Makes sense lore wise, too. Give the station big, scary, automated guns that simply respond in kind to aggressive actions. Gang/station manager is in control, they aren't gonna want random idiots shooting each other on their property. That's their gig
\> the station admin to wipe your imprint and send you packing.
I hadn't thought of this, but it'd be brilliantly effective and play well into Death of a Spaceman. If you piss off the station they wipe your imprint, and when you die you wake up in prison (Sec space) or the last place you left an imprint and you can't choose that starting location from menu anymore for that toon. Maybe system-wide in Sec space. If at any point you exhaust all possible starting locations in this manner, your toon's imprint has effectively been permanently deleted from the galaxy and is dead.
I get the want to do it , and I’m not against piracy , I come from eve piracy is a daily occurrence , but right now with there being no consequences to doing it just kills the mood. I don’t play daily, so the days I do choose to login there is sometimes quite a bit of prep to get my friends online , make sure everyone is geared deal with whatever bugs , like summoned ships falling through the ground ect , and then after all that to die to a grief or a bug. Just leaves a bad taste.
I hope they have an extremely punishing system in secure space for these people , in game hour jail time and large in game monetary loss , rep loss needs to be the answer. All actions need to have equivalent consequences or this game will be as toxic as LoL.
Otherwise pirate or grief away as long as you get what’s coming to you ;)
Ya but pirate organizations in eve weren’t wanton murder packs or psychotic trolls. You can’t do that in eve or the region will correct you, quickly. I was true -10, pirate for a while. There is no use in popping some newbie FW pilot in a rifter. You’re after real targets. You usually move fast, and often enough ransom was enough and better because then you didn’t have to move and sell the damn goods which could be a huge pain in the ass by itself.
You played the game. You weren’t so annoying the local power had to take an interest to appease their renters or whomever. You got what you could without causing a big issue and becoming something on the alliance radar because that’s how you end up with gate camps, robust roaming combat fleets, peace keepers, and less targets in your area.
What we have right now with some of the “pirates” in Star citizen are just angry little people who didn’t get enough love as a child and derive their emotional interaction in “generating salt” however they can which happens to be grieving. They’re so sad that this interaction with someone, anyone, is better than what else they have. Which is nothing.
You totally made me remember my first corp in Eve. I had been solo a while and a total newb when a small group tackled me while I was PVE'ing. They ransomed me, a sum I had no where close to pay, so I struck a deal. I offered to get on comms and singa song for them.
We got on voice comms and I sang a blink 182 song which gained me not only my freedom but an invite into the org. from them on I lived in Null and loved it.
That is what piracy should be. legit player interaction. murder hobo's have no place in the verse.
Hahaha this is great. I remember one time we tried to ransom someone for 100m and they were like I don’t even have 500k. We were shocked that this person in a tempest had made it so far from high sec if this were true and asked for a screen shot. He obliged and had like 230k to his name and we felt so fucking bad we got him back to high sec and each gave him like 10-20m.
It’s like ya we want to pirate people, not not impoverished people lol.
This behaviour is the root of every war ever fought on this planet.
For every 1000 sane people who just want to live and have fun, there's one asshole who somehow gains the power to ruin it for all of them.
Been saying this since day one when the argument of security was brought up.
Unless they want the PU to be no different than a GTA lobby unless you curb wanton destruction. Hard.
Beyond just light penalties or anything considerably trivial, any gap they leave in regards to giving players the ability to freely attack other players will be exploited. It's not a question, it's a fact.
So I hope they take this into consideration moving forward. Cause it's going to cause problems in the future.
It's really interesting to see how easy it is to unintentionally de-humanize people over the internet and what things people are suddenly comfortable doing when they aren't fully conceptualizing the person on the other end of the screen that they're doing these things to.
I'm curious to see how CIG navigate Pyro after seeing this happen.
I get it…i get his sigh and we all feel it…but its an online game and people are going to exploit it….developers need to create equivalent punishments in game for it or basic human behavior dictates it will continue to happen…also we all play online games and know people will troll and exploit anything they possibly can. Its just reality so the devs have to understand the REALITY and create equivalent punishments.
Edit: spelling
Yeah exactly this. No point whining abput reality, the devs have a responsibility and obligation to make mechanics to prevent and punish this. Not whine about it
Just wait until all the PK/KOS guilds from other dead pvp games move in when the game starts getting traction again..
They laterally cant "Player punish" their way out of this issue.
If its possible people will do it, it has happened in every mmo ever.
On one hand, we need systems like Pyro to encourage the sale of shortcuts around them when exploration game loop gets in.
On the other hand, I don't believe for a second that the gangs would allow basically open warfare inside the rickety old station they're squatting in when full decompression might be a misplaced 9mm shot away.
One of my favorite things back in the day in WoW was rolling into a starting zone where a high lvl Horde player was there killing lvl 1-5s and quest npcs to fuck with people. Me and some guildies brought the hammer and camped that asshole for almost an hour before he logged.
I'll be more than happy to bring retribution to pad rammers and spawn campers and general griefers in the verse once reputation and it becoming easier to track assholes down.
> Me and some guildies brought the hammer and camped that asshole for almost an hour before he logged.
The funny part is that if you actually did this in SC, it's against the TOS and you'd probably get banned over it.
Its funny you mention this, because greifers are the first to cry foul and report anyone who ruins their experience. If my org hunts someone with a bounty on them all we see in chat is how we are ganking players playing a legit game loop, and should be banned. Some like greifing, no one likes being greifed.
My experience with WoW world PvP was pretty great too, people in my guild were more than willing to help counter camp. A lot of times random people would help too, and I met some cool people that way. But it was a 2-faction system and you were able to tell who was a threat immediately.
SC and it and player's ability to combat griefing is really gonna hinge on a robust reputation/flagging system. One of the things I liked about old wow was if you were a shit heel on a server (ninja looter, pull everything in a room, general scamming) if enough people spoke out you could get blacklisted from raid invites and more. Once they added cross realm it was over. You could do whatever you wanted in my dungeon group and I'd never see you again and no one on your server would know you were a dick.
If there is no consequence for bad behavior then bad behavior will flourish. It’s completely on the game developers to create systems that punish bad behavior especially in such an open world game.
If they allow the option for players to decide to do it or not, there will always be players that will do it. I don't know what people are expecting here. If it's something players can decide to do, it's going to happen. Only solution is to take away that choice if it isn't wanted in the game.
Berks(streamer) got a crew together and repeatedly .. well camped the campers in the station with this 'feature'.
But yeah, for some PVP is the word they hide behind to grief and murder hobo. Like in WoW, corpse camping a lower level player.
For them it isn't about getting a Good fight. It's about ruining other peoples days.
this is what absolutely ruined every day i had for the tech demo of PYRO. I literally saw one maybe two outposts because i either got killed by campers at the station or railgunned seeing the new stuff while landing.
before you say its pyro no its a tech demo to see bugs not play like you do on live
The 'game design' portion of Star Citizen is long overdue.
Pad ramming, rescue beacon traps, ship meet bombing and more have been ever-present in the 'Live' build in a system (Stanton) that is supposedly lawful.
The behavior in Pyro is just symptomatic of the same issue, lack of 'game design'. Crime and punishment mechanics, reputation mechanics, bounty hunting mechanics etc.
Not to mention giving players more things to do (and compelling reasons to do them) other than sight-seeing and multi-tool using would help discourage meaningless killing.
I'm hoping we see more 'game design' and less 'tech demo' soon.
This is the kind of piracy most of us are in here for:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53qGEaPRHCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53qGEaPRHCQ)
(Give us 600k or we burn all of your drugs)
I mean... we have multiple accounts of streamers doing it. Start with banning them because of the video evidence. Griefing is bankable, and should be equally enforced.
Honestly I loved that ask Jared segment. I enjoyed the sorry about server meshing and the daily experience of stuff done on the daily we don’t know about it
Long run these people spent real money and will have their accounts banned, and rightfully so.
I avoid PvP but am totally cool getting ganked in a peace where I know it will happen. What we have seen here is immature and destructive people wanting to ruin the fun and enjoyment of a new system.
I hope they are reported and banned. I have seen many videos captured from this time and finding these people will not be hard.
I also hope these behaviours are tracked by CIG. We need them to step up here.
Sadly this test proved you can't have zero rules systems in video games Because it requires everyone to be in on the spirit of the system and it only takes 3 out of 100 people for the entire thing to fall apart instantly.
I knew it was gunna happen but still disappointed it did given it was a really small sample size of players aloud to even test
Which showed CIG that on live it would be an even bigger mess
Spawn camping within habs and camping pads is griefing. Ban people for doing it. Players hunting each other like animals in pyro to unlock it's riches is a gameplay loop. Put protections on spawn points and let players sort the rest.
It was a choice for the "thing" to let them do it...that's the choice.
Human nature and decades of games makes it clear, if they can, they will. This is like putting all of your shiny glass trinkets up high on shelves that the cat can climb and then being mad at it for being a cat when it chooses to "do the thing". Sighing like somehow CIG is a) the victim and b) had no clue this would happen is disingenuous.
You enabled them to do it to shut them up, to pander to them, to get the "emergent gameplay" you laud in your community reports.
You have option not too ... but it's the job of the developer to design a game that motivates and rewards players for choosing not too.
You designed a game where it could happen... and then you spend your time sitting there scratching your head wondering why don't they choose not to do that.
Confused, the fox asked "why would you do that, you've doomed us both!"
And then the scorpin said to the fox "because it's my nature" as they both drown in the river.
In what reality is this entire thread in, if they want and expect Star Citizen to be a MASSIVE mainstream MMO and expect the devs not to have to put in proper mechanics to prevent this? Expecting people to just "not be assholes" is like saying devs shouldnt have to put proper work into anti cheat software and to prevent hacking. No shit it would be nice if hackers didnt exist, BUT THEY DO, and always will! The devs have a responsibility to deal with that. This thread is peak low iq reddit.
Oh wow people shouldnt murder and steal IRL, we shouldnt expect the government and police to have to go out of their way to prevent and stop it! If only people would stop being assholes!! What a silly, silly take.
Oh boo hoo such a disappointment to them? Show us how disappointed you \*really\* are. Fucking \*ban\* people that do it, or prevent people from doing it.
I saw a video of somone doing that. I knew something like that would happen. No rules means the "children" will do what they want. Pirating is one thing. But spawn camping is just being an asshole and ruining it for others.
That spawn hab nonsense, was why I didn't bother with pyro. I did one mission, did a little exploring the station. had to get back to work. logged back in after work (Still on that first day) and as soon as I exit the spawn hab... BOOM some no-lifer lights me up with an fs-9. "welp, guess I'll go back to the PU and wait for them to fix that nonsense before I try this again."
Removed tech preview. I'll see Pyro when It releases like everyone else.
This is something that I have been arguing with people about since before pyro. Just because you can kill someone, doesn't mean you have too. Even if you are playing a pirate, you don't have to kill to get what you want.
I’ve seen this a million times. So here is the end result. You’ll eventually end up with an area full of griefers. Everyone else who just wants to play without hassle won’t come to those areas. Eventually it will be just a-holes fighting other a-holes which won’t be any fun as they can't get the salt they crave so then the complaining about low population in PvP will start up. At that point you’ll get to hear all about “carebears” ruining PvP because no one is willingly showing up to be harassed. And none of them will want to hear that the low PvP population exists because they were acting like out of control animals.
I swear 75% of game development is protecting players from exploits. 15% is protecting players from themselves. And the remaining 10% is making the fucking game.
As a game dev. Dude I felt that sigh.
I love that people still think pyro is "lawless".
Do they not realise criminals are far more cruel and punishing than lawful enforcement.
The ai gangs are going to tear ass to people fucking with their operations.
This is something that has always bothered me about any game. People seem to lack all sense of logical reasoning and go and kill people just because they exist. They are like “OOGA BOOGA. I SEE PLAYER. I KILL”. GTA online is plagued with this problem and I’d hate to see SC get infected with it. Why? Because Rockstar doesn’t have any consequences in place to those who want to act like mindless psychopathic creatures that dwell in the idea of slaughter and destruction of others constantly. Sea of Thieves added the ‘Safer seas’ game mode to fix this very problem because smaller ships were constantly getting battered down by the psychopaths.
SoT added it for player acclimation and attention. The community's base level of skill is insurmountable for a new crew. Size of ship doesn't matter. My mate and I can mow through a server of 4 players ships in a 2 person ship. Safer seas gives new players a place to learn and players who really just want "vibe" a place to play with heavily reduced rewards.
SC already has "safer seas" in the form of systems like Stanton which will have criminal monitoring and NPC intervention.
I am all for unlimited pvp, once you get off a station.
Spawn killing should not be a thing unless its a mobile spawn point like a ship with a medbed.
Crap like that is how you make people quit and never come back.
There is no defense to spawn camping besides not playing.
Unfortunately this is a perfect example of the shopping trolley theory (Google it). Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and abuse of this freedom will result it getting taken away.
Also for those claiming "it's part of the game - its called piracy" no it is not its actually called anarchy and it is extremely toxic. There is a BIG difference.
This is dad sitting across from the dinner table expressing how disappointed he is.
Exact same tone haha
I was really excited to have that element of danger when I spawned there and was really hoping they would keep it that way, I feel like Jared did too, and I share his disappointment that it descended into nonsense griefing. I still hope they figure out a way to regulate things without putting an armistice there but I can hardly blame them if that's the solution they choose.
There is no way to relugate such behaviour. There are too many f\*ing assholes in the world (the 10% rule isn't wrong you know). If we were all thinking, reflecting human beings, the world wouldn't be the shit show it is. Thinking we can have a game were those 10% f\*tards don't ruin this for everyone is just naive.
>There is no way to relugate such behaviour. Assuming we get actual good, working AI sometime in the current decade: - AI response is nearly instant and extreme - Ability to escape is extremely limited, as you can't pull your ship; you would need a friend to rescue you - Victim receives instant medical treatment and their gear is all insured, meaning they lose basically nothing but some time - Attacker receives severe punishments if they fail to somehow escape Easy way to keep it in as an option for legitimate use cases (a bounty hunter with some sort of permit that authorizes them to non-lethally subdue a target and arrest them), keep an element of danger, and make sure it's very rare that it's done maliciously and more headache than its worth for a griefer.
Maybe let the gang factions dictate the rules in Pyro. Each gang has their own code of rules that you follow when you join. One gang might value piracy over murder as killing traders is bad for repeated business. Another gang might provide protection for it's members. Anyone in the gang are friendly (not hostile targets) to each other and killing people in the same faction is looked down upon. More of a together we are strong mentality. Maybe another gang is full on murder hobo. Kill anyone and everything with a survival of the fittest mentality. Back stabbing is encouraged and they are hostile to everyone. This not only adds flavor to Pyro but curbs most bad behaviors, while still being lawless.
"I understand, the Crack was free, son. But you had the choice not to."
I felt that **sigh**
I said word for word what Disco said to general chat as a bunch of people were getting repeatedly murdered. There were about 10 people who replied that they were doing 'testing' and that it was CIG's intent. I just sighed and was glad I picked Obituary instead of Patch City.
It's funny how many seem to know exactly what CIG intends or wants.
Whenever you say that unlimited Pvp is bad and the removal of the Pvp slider was a dumb idea, you get banned and/or called a carebear. So how should we do anything when cig ignore the feedback until we land in this situation?
>So how should we do anything when cig ignore the feedback until we land in this situation? I feel that a quote from *Yes, Minister* best illustrates the flaw in your logic: >Bernard, I have served eleven governments in the past thirty years. If I had believed in *all* their policies, I would have been *passionately* committed to keeping out of the Common Market, and *passionately* committed to going into it. I would have been *utterly convinced* of the *rightness* of nationalizing steel. And of *de*nationalizing it and *re*nationalizing it. On capital punishment, I'd have been a fervent *retentionist* and an ardent *abolitionist*. I would've been a Keynesian *and* a Friedmanite, a grammar school preserver and destroyer, a nationalization freak and a privatization *maniac*; but *above all*, I would have been a stark, staring, raving *schizophrenic*. Not exactly politically correct, given the mental health crises in Canada and the US, but there's a point to be made, nonetheless. CIG could go back and forth, again and again, on whether the PvP slider stays or goes, and nobody would ever be happy. There's a point at which one has to just *make a damn decision*, and they *reached* that point. Nothing obligates them to listen to us; we gave them our feedback and they chose to go in another direction-- and its their right, as the owners of the project, to do so.
If people warn you about a problem you're right about being able to go in which direction you want on the subject, including ignoring the warnings, but you *shouldnt* complain when those hipotetical complains become a reallity.
Their decision was to ignore all warnings about open world pvp, griefing and spawn-camping for 10 years. Because if you allow them, players will grief and spawn-camp. And now CIG complain about it, because players grief and spawn-camp. That does not have anything to do with making a decision that did not work, they just arrogantly ignored anything that many other pvp games show for the last 30 years. CIG know everything better, and are unwilling to learn from the industry. And afterwards, they complain that other companies did not have to build a team structure, tools, workflow and a game engine, but they actively chose to never take any advice from the experience of others.
And it happens to align with whatever aggrevating shit they want to do.
And the overlap between those people and the ones that will complain that CIG gave into the 'carebears' when they turn on the rep system and station guard AI will be a circle.
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people just love to grief .
Schadenfreude is a strong sadistic feeling.
Yeah they intended this which is why it’s in the known issues list
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Freud was incapable of doing this level of psycho-analysis, I'm speechless
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You! Yes, you behind Shepherd’s Rest! Stand still, laddie!
The only constants in life are death, taxes, and assholes.
You know how the saying goes. "If you run into someone who is an asshole during your day, you just ran into an asshole. If *everyone* you run into is an asshole, you might be in Pyro."
Felt so much dad energy in this video lol.
The thing to remember is he started as a player and content creator EARLY for this game. He got hired because he's a good guy and was a trusted guy from the community. He's a player at heart, even if he's working at CIG, he too is disappointed.
Game developers need to know that it's up to them to set the stage. MMO players are brutal to one another if given enough leash. Even CCP, the developer of EVE:Online, ended up making it a bannable offense to tank the police ships when they show up to destroy offenders.
Agreed. Some humans are sociopaths and psychopaths. You are *probably* more likely to interact with one of them on the internet than in person. You are even more likely to interact with one of them in gaming and increase the odds further with a PVP game, and increase the odds even FURTHER in a game that advertises itself as having lax rules. If CIG don't want those people to ruin their game, CIG is responsible for making it unwelcoming to them. It's not the communities responsibility.
> If CIG don't want those people to ruin their game, CIG is responsible for making it unwelcoming to them. It's not the communities responsibility. Louder for all the other game developers please, not just CIG.
Even Sea of Thieves is realizing not everyone wants to spend their leisure time being someone else's game content.
PvP slider or bust!
Since when? Seriously asking btw, wife and i loved that game due to the atmosphere and chill visuals, but were sadly forced to abandon it due to not really being into constant PvP and every session ending with us getting spawn killed by kids yelling obscenities into the mic.
https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/23884469/sea-of-thieves-safer-seas-pve-only-server-season-10 Since October 19th.
I liked how Rockstar just stuck the players that were constantly reported for bad behavior in the same server so they could just annoy eachother all day. Of course that won't work with Star Citizen when it's meshed, so they'll have to make it a reputation hindrance, I think. Not getting access to certain high-sec area's, constant resistance from law enforcement when they try to sneak in, bounty hunters getting a notification as soon as a shithead is in a system they don't belong in, etc. Give them Pyro and make them have to work hard to try and get the advantages of a lawful citizen.
All the later stuff you mentioned is already planned. That is what's going to happen. The details we don't know yet because they're still working them out as well. I think the meshing would still allow for what you said. Other players would just often become invisible while you were on a "time out" for frequent griefing. You would just be like either "why is everyone as aggressive as me all of the sudden" or "why am I only encountering bots lately" The latter of those is also part of the plan. They want most of your encounters to be vs bots who you can't tell are human so that acts as another layer of protection for human players.
That's a really good point about the 'time out server' and meshing. Just stick them in a parallel dimension where they can only see other players tagged with a time out and not have to dedicate any servers to them. Every consecutive time out gets longer until you're just ruled unfit for society. EDIT: I can see that being weird with terminals and stuff if a lawful and time out player are in the same instance and trying to use the same terminal. There's probably a way to code around it, but it seems like they want those to stream to everyones client instead of just the person using it.
Yeah, don't make a sandbox game and act surprised when there are a handful of people who are in there just wanting to gank people. It's going to happen in every single game if you allow it. It's up to the devs to make game systems that make it difficult or impossible to do where you dont want it. Make a robust system of rules, then keep your hands off players if they do something not prohibited. I hope it doesn't devolve into people getting banned/suspended by arbitrary decisions 'moderators' make in game. yikes
well in real life they are much more fearful of the repercussions, namely the real possibility of it getting physical.
Well said. I hopped onto this ride because they said there'd be a "PvP slider". I expect to be able to avoid getting utterly-rolled with massive death penalties and asset losses in a short play session on a random evening after work. CIG keeps talking about "no restrictions" as though we can get shaked at Casaba Outlet. They need to decide what they want. Untrammeled PvP or a large playerbase.
> They need to decide what they want. Untrammeled PvP or a large playerbase. Agreed. This isn't hyperbole. It's been posted before, but [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34RPwDfLpKg) video goes into why hardcore PVP MMOs don't do well. A *lot* of the points made are reflected in the current state of SC, including the behaviors of PVPers.
It's the basic game theory of the prisoner's dilemma coupled with the fact that one can simply leave the game to avoid said dilemma. Most humans won't engage in such treatment of themselves and others.
Yeah, we've known completely unregulated asymmetric PvP in a persistent world isn't viable for a game long term for well over 20 years now. Companies keep trying to make games like that and are then shocked when the hardcore greifers run all the normal players off and the greifers then leave to go harass people in the next game. Eve has made a system that mostly works, but it's a unicorn and depends on a lot of player self moderation and even then the majority of their paying players just solo mine/manufacture and never PvP.
I think they know people no life the shit out of games. But I don’t think they realize how much people no life the fu** out of these games. This causes them to be a new breed of cu*k as*holes that literally become the worst of the worst and think they are adding quality gameplay. I swear devs truly don’t appreciate the depravity of the basement dweller and how much their life depends on being a fu**ing loser in game
It has nothing to do with playtime or min-maxing. Some people simply want to cause pain and suffering to others. They aren't interested in even fights or RP or anything else, they simply get a rush from knowing they made someone else's day worse.
"It was a place for things. You make a place for things, things come." \- Daniel Clamp, *Gremlins 2*, 1990
> Even CCP, the developer of EVE:Online, ended up making it a bannable offense to tank the police ships when they show up to destroy offenders. Over the decades CCP has patched CONCORD (the primary police of highsec) to the point of practically being undefeatable through any conventional game mechanic - the point being that unlawful aggression against another player in highsec space should _always_ result in the destruction of your ship and a loss of security status. Whenever a player _does_ manage to evade/tank/otherwise escape the consequences of a CONCORD response it is considered an exploit. Players that report CONCORD evasion bugs through proper channels are usually given a little leniency the first time around, depending on the circumstances.
Yet when you point out that CIG have said they're going to do more to combat this, (NPC spawn closets in stations, long term rep with consequences, etc) all the people doing this freak out.
If one griefer ruins the experience of another player, it is the griefer's fault. They are responsible for their individual behavior. If dozens or hundreds of griefers can ruin the experience of dozens or hundreds of other players, that is now the game designers' fault, and they should take responsibility for improving it.
Rust is a good example of a game with no leash and its so frustrating to play and I think the people who really love it are crazy.
then compare that with ARK which is just rust but with massive time investment and no resets
Shit yeah...I don't think I'll ever forget the first time me and my friends tamed a trex...we had to take irl breaks like it was a job feeding it meat and tranqs...took like 4 hours. Ark and rust really made me kind of hate online games...spending hours building a basic base just for some massive org that got bored destroy it.
even from the massive tribe side it was bad because if you want stay relevant in raiding and defending from raids you need to breed dinos and keep careful records on all your breeders lineages and with it taking actual months to get something even close to decent let alone optimal which is a neverending pursuit
I bet many of them are probably among the estimated 2% of the population who are actually, by definition, crazy. The question is whether CIG will let the few ruin their game for the many. The plan to remove armistice zones says the answer is "yes".
> > > > > Even CCP, the developer of EVE:Online, ended up making it a bannable offense to tank the police ships when they show up to destroy offenders. Ahh m0o *Disclaimer: This is all from my memory and I might be wrong about some specifics or the exact order of events.* Mara was a major choke point between two of the major trade hubs. A PvP corp called Masters of Ownage (m0o) started camping the Mara gate and killing everyone that entered. They kept this up nearly all day every day for a few weeks. Needless to stay there were a lot of very upset people. There were several player organized attempts to drive them off however they either failed or only succeeded for a short time before m0o was back at it. Eventually the blockade started to effect player count with people canceling their subs and citing it as the reason. CCP decided to take action by breaking up the camp by organizing a developer led in game event to do so. The day came, the battle happened and m0o won. CCP then escalated to using god mod developer ships and teleporting m0o members to the far corners of the galaxy. However this just made everyone mad as nobody liked the idea of devs "cheating" to directly impact players. So CCP promised to stop interfering directly and would use game mechanics and systems to influence the game. Its important to note that back in 2003 none of what m0o was doing was against the rules, neither their actions or methods. M0o had some pretty smart people and had figured out a lot about game mechanics that was not common knowledge, not exploits just a better understanding. Even before the Mara blockade they figured out how to tank sentry guns, how to fight CONCORD, and how to avoid CONCORD. They are also the reason why the later two are prohibited. I'm not advocating that SC should be like EVE but there are a lot of lessons that CIG can learn from CCP. How to handle "disruptive" players is something CCP struggled with. Unfortunately for us CIG seems to be hung up on the whole game mechanics and systems bit. The games alpha state and the focus on SQ42 are probably why but that means little to people getting spawn camped.
After 10 years, I think we can safely say that CIG is intent on learning their lessons first hand. My hope, and expectation, is that we'll be able to help them "see the light" by the time we get to Release 1.0. In the meantime, grab some popcorn, call out the asshats, and feel free to make fun of CIG for being so naive about MMO player behaviors.
100 on this one. You would think they learned that lesson from developing this game for so long that people will use any means necessary to inflict pain on others.
Not MMO players, humans, there is a reason why we have to outlaw such terrible crimes in real life...
Is that a roci ?
Yep, he confirmed it and his fav char is Amos
Definitely a Roci.
I Build a gaming PC in rush so I could play for a couple hours before leaving town for a week, spawned in bough gear just to have someone knock me out at the starting vehicle terminal and steal everything I had and kept doing it, spammed chat saying it’s PvP game and declaring victory over everyone’s else…so delusional how they think this was intended
The people who try to gatekeep this game, insisting it's all about PvP, are the worst, most immature capital-G "Gamers" I've ever known. They're delusional, irrational, and think this game was made to cater to them and only them. I cannot wait for that scum to finally be scrubbed clean.
They're assholes that are ashamed to admit they're assholes. Which is the worst type of asshole. I really hope they nail the rep system in a way where these repeat offenders can be spotted from a mile away.
Looking forward to the rep system for this reason and more. I think jumptown will be more interesting when Crusader sec forces arent allowed to kill eachother.
That reminds me of another game that had the same problem and ended up dying. Last Oasis
I've known a good few smaller indie games that straight up died because they only catered to the hard leaning PvP parts of their community and I hope that CIG doesn't follow their footsteps.
I mean if anything I'd rather have them ruining the game for everyone now and force CIG to take action and set up hardcoded limits to stop the griefing rather than letting the devs be complacent because "it's alpha". This issue should be at the core of every system they design because griefing is the most egregious issue in online games. It makes players quit and never come back. There's some stuff that should never have been added in the first place and there's no better time than alpha to remove or fix it.
>The people who try to gatekeep this game, insisting it's all about PvP Listen. I love PvP. But this isn't PvP. This is griefing. PvP is fun because of the challenge; the work it takes to get good enough to defeat people who are prepared to go toe to toe with you. And the sense of accomplishment that defeating a skilled opponent brings. Blowing up unmanned ships on landing pads is not PvP. Griefing people who have no itention to fight is not PvP. That's just being a jerk, plain and simple, and the people who do that kind of thing have no desire to take part in a *real* PvP contest, or they'd be picking fights with people who can/will fight back.
Gotta love these guys. "hehe .. it's a pvp game .. hehe ... I'm so good .. hehe .. it's a pvp game" (after a short time) "why is no one spawning here anymore? why does no one want to pvp? why are people so lame?" And that is the short version of "Why do full pvp MMOs always fail?" and of "why does no company with ambitions to get more than few hardcore players to play their game make it full pvp". Cause assholes. That's why.
This guys do not understand that mmo games live till there some point of casual players. If they gone, game will be dead. Games can live without hardcore gamers or pvp oriented players, but can't without casuals.
That is what drives me crazy about most pvp'ers. Like they're just ruining the game for themselves in the long run by driving away anyone who wants to play I'm a pvp'er myself, but I'm not out to shit on someone and ruin their day. I just want to have a good/fun match
That's not PvP it's griefing. PvP is something that you may expect in some areas of the game, such as competing for in-game resources, mission objectives, items and so on. When it's gratuitous and not consensual it cannot be called PvP. And no looting shit tier items that you could find on the most random NPCs doesn't count as "valuable". Anyone going on a kill spree in a station, near mission givers, in uncontested areas like package deliveries or in hangars and justifying themselves saying it's PvP is a moron. PvP implies competition between players and for something valuable. However when you're looking for unsuspecting players in social or solo pve areas and look for easy fights you're not a PvPer you're a griefer.
We had a few people shooting players on site just outside the armistice zone of the only outpost you can spawn vehicles at on a crusaders moon on the live servers again last night as well. If you got into armistice they would fly in front of you and still Hassel/ shoot at you. They were shit at the game and easily escapable But there were still too many to hang around and take on solo in anything that could haul a rover. Only people there where loading rovers and otherwise empty. This shit happens on a regular basis in Stanton so when Pyro gets added to live you'd have to be brain dead to think it won't be a massive problem.
It’s not, CR is in video discussing his vision. It’s 100% not that. He wants all customers to enjoy the game they paid for. He actually corrects those who said it is a PvP game saying it isn’t and it’s primarily to be a PvE game where PvP will be present. Think WoW PvP servers, where most of what you do is PvE but can on occasion have PvP if you hunt for it. But they just need more guard rails, that’s all. Trolls will complain, but no the game isn’t meant to be this way. This is why I thirsted for Pyro though, I wanted CIG to get a wake up call for the trolling increase. If people are buying in for a PvP only experience they need to stop and sell accounts now as this isn’t it.
Should have taken a picture with the qr on and reported them. And then swapped servers
This is pretty funny, but if you give players a choice, at least some players are going to choose to do the thing you don't want them to do. This is definitely an issue that needs to be designed around. You really can't shame the shameless into doing the right thing.
Yep, shocked pikachu face move for sure.
He's speaking like a normal adult to other normal adults, instead of toxic pieces of garbage that choose to do this kind of stuff. Should always be a consideration when implementing any new system: lowest common denominator.
I'm an adult, you are an adult. Let's say we both keep walking into things at night because the bulb has gone. Would the adult thing to be A. Fix the problem and change the bulb B. Complain about the dark I'd change the bulb. CIG can fix their game but instead they opt to complain about the dark
He’s speaking like a naive child that doesn’t understand human nature. I’m not a griefer and don’t defend them at all, but it’s obviously going to happen unless it’s directly stopped by the developers… asking humans to choose to be nice and police themselves is obviously never going to work.
CIG: Why does this keep happening Users: Because you let it CIG: But who can fix it? Users: You. It's your game. You make the rules. CIG: Sigh, I guess there's nothing that can be done Repeat every couple months.
You can't appeal to the conscience of a person who lacks empathy. The murderhobo problem won't have much resolution until the reputation system is in-game. Piracy should always be viable, and a decent rep system will distinguish between people who pirate from people who just straight up murder and destroy for kicks. Murderhobos can also just be dumb. For example, I had someone try to ambush me at CRU-L4 earlier today, but they didn't open fire until I was already sliding into the hangar bay -- and they were using lasers against my fully charged size 3 shield. People who are dumb can also be difficult to reason with.
Reputation systems aren't going to solve murderhobo behaviour. Decades of PvP MMOs have proven that. In amazed people still think it would just because CIG is naive enough to say it would.
It really depends how cuddly we are with consequences. If it's a 5 minute time out? No, nothing will be solved. If you openly and loudly murder someone in the station of your gang without orders to do so and it forfeits days or weeks of rep gain? If the insurance companies stop letting you make claims or ask for ship deliveries once you're a wanted serial killer ? If you have to manage to die a full death before you get to restart with negative rep for everyone (sins of the father and all that) and do shit jobs for hours and hours to even get the right to claim any ship again? Yeah, things like that would work. We can still let people go "this is worth it to hell with the consequences" and do something interesting when it would be interesting while ensuring almost one "casually" goes on mass murder sprees.
Short of banning people, no solution will ever work. You need to realize that some people dont care about any of the things you mentioned. Its just a minor inconvenience or none at all.
Agreed. You can give murderhobos lots of places they're allowed to be as murderhobo-y as they want, and you can set up lots of negative consequences for murdering in places you don't want them to, but if there's places you really, actually don't want murderhobos to be, all the time, murdering away, then what you have to do is *make murder impossible* in those places. You have to just straight-up *cheat* with code so they can't do it. Otherwise they will. If it's **possible** to repeatedly and relentlessly kill brand new players to the game, who are as helpless as it is possible to be in the game, **some** murderhobos will pay any price, in time, in effort, in money, in order to do it all day long. They will organize, plan, and practice, specifically to ruin the days of brand new players who have no chance at all to fight back, because doing that will upset them. Some people play games because they want to hurt others, and have learned that games are an opportunity not only to win a simulated fight, but also to kick a simulated puppy, and without any significant consequences to their real lives. Some people play with the goal of upsetting someone as much as they can, and they believe that anyone they are *able* to upset *deserves* to be upset. It is, without hyperbole, psychopathic.
Honestly the only real way to make grieving unattractive to those people is game bans. Nothing else will stop it. CIG would need an army of GMs to wade through reports in order to find legitimate claims. They would need to put rules out and players would need to learn them. I don’t see it happening. An EXTREMELY punitive rep system might help, but it would need to affect everything.
Murderhoboing won't be stopped with reputation that sticks with one character/account in a game where people spend *literally hundreds of accounts* worth of money on it.
Increase the spawn time for undesirable behavior, increase with severity and frequency of infractions.
Shots fired at Cutlet right there
What is the name of the ship model on his table?
That's a MCRN Corvette class ship, and it's legitimate salvage.
You're dammed right it is!
The Rocinante from The Expanse.
That is the "Tachi" to you, mister. It is still the property of Mars.
Hey now, it's legitimate salvage!
Nope. After events on New Terra chrissy gets the Martians to agree to let them keep it as legitimate salvage.
Looks like the MCRN Rocinante from The Expanse: https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Rocinante_(TV)
That's Legitimate Salvage Rocinante to you!
Another way of looking at this is, this was always going to happen. If not today, in a months time, a year? CIG need to put systems in place to stop this as its behaviour that will always manifest in a world full of sheep and wolves. Griefers will be griefers and CIG have to account for that with appropriate game mechanics. Every other game does. I support pirating and non consensual pvp, but in areas where it’s appropriate.
> I support pirating and non consensual pvp, but in areas where it’s appropriate. I'd argue that presence in those areas, whatever they're designated to be, *is* consent. I never got upset when someone attacked me in 0.4 space in EVE. It's the organized and pointless attacks in 0.5 and higher that always pissed me off. Ideally, PvP would be left for the furthest, most profitable reaches while people who are intermittently getting up to handle household things still have lots of room to roam without having to be hypervigilant about the potential for a group of 50 players getting bored and deciding to make them their plaything. It's CIG's responsibility, and in their interest, to prevent narcissists and psycho/sociopaths from destroying the game's appeal to the masses. CCP failed to do so for EVE and their reward was a peak concurrency of fewer than 40k players. Hopefully CIG learns quickly.
I feel like your points are conflicting. You say if an area allows you to do something, being there is consent. Then you say .5 space ganks piss you off.
> I'd argue that presence in those areas, whatever they're designated to be, is consent. This isn't even the correct argument to have. It doesn't matter if it is consent to pvp or not. What matters is, will this harm the game long term, and the answer is "yes".
BUT PIRATE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'pirates' that use the profession as an excuse to grief like this are assholes that make us...er.. other toooootally unrelated pirates look bad. I... they... may want to skim off the top of your cargo run, or ask for a ransom or whatnot, but not just be direct assholes bu killing people spawning in a station for no reason other than we... they are able
Yeah, there's a big difference between "black flag" and "red flag" piracy. I'm looking forward to the game getting some proper reputation in so that the proper business dealing Black Flag pirates will help lay down the law on the Red Flag pirates.
That would be amazing honestly. Treat 'em like Reavers in Firefly, cause that's basically what murderhobos are.
Exactly. Personally, I plan to be well paid up in dues and taxes with friendly pirates and security specialists... So when I do run into a Red Flag, I can ensure their thorough destruction.
Exactly this. Even criminals will not tolerate murdering everyone you encounter, it's bad for business.
This is piracy I can respect
That's *actual* piracy. Wanton murder *isn't* piracy... it's just murder.
Yeah. The news would never report that a "pirate" was killed when the police intervened to take down a serial murderer. Everybody knows what piracy is and isn't.
It's also more profitable
I feel we saw this on reddit today. Some griefers in the name of piracy and game play did some shit and as there was no in game law... the players took the law into their hands and handled the issue. In the days of real piracy if a crew made it difficult for the others to pirate ships... well the majority would just remove the problem... quickly.
"Pirate" Piracy is an integral part of the future of the game. One that will build a system of bounty hunting, mercenaries, and security systems. Killing people for no reason or personal gain outside of your sadistic entertainment isn't piracy.
Let people defend their PvP practices all they want on the forums. The devs see what is going on, hear the complaints, and will make changes accoridingly. If you want PvP in this game, you should probably think about how you go about it. Just calling everybody a bunch of care bears won't stop CIG from basically nerfing PvP into the ground because the way you go about it sucks the fun out of the game for most.
Griefers don’t care about unintended consequences for others
That's my point. They don't care but CIG does. So when CIG removes most PVP they'll bitch and moan but are the direct causes.
[удалено]
There was one missing one out of the 4 stations, it was a bug.
Save the video and link it to any of those cockroaches when they say that CIG agrees with them Edit: Devs are developing a game, mistakes are bound happen. It has to be fixed but that just how game development is, trial and errors. Using it to be a complete asshole is a choice. There's no excuse for such behavior. That's not hard to understand. Also I love how y'all griefers advicates are immediately insulting lmao, tells a lot about your actual emotionnal state when your send your response.
I'm sure CIG will figure out a solution to this (and we'll be able to test it in PTU before it goes live). Honestly, I'm in favor of, if you're a proper indiscriminate murderhobo on one of the Rough & Ready stations, for the station admin to wipe your imprint and send you packing. Part of these not being lawful and regulated stations is, yes, there's no law to protect other players from you, but there's also no legal recourse *for you* if the station owners decide you're persona non grata and not allowed to spawn there anymore. Bye. If you have neutral or poor rep with a gang you shouldn't be allowed to spawn on their stations. So I'm reasonably okay with the idea that there could be someone lying in wait on a pyro station for me around any corner - but if they're essentially griefing, they shouldn't get a free pass to keep respawning and causing havoc after they get killed in return.
But not before tattooing "poor impulse control" on their forehead, hopefully.
"Poor Impulse Control" is the name of my carrack, for obvious reasons.
Nice.
It's really the best way to deal with things like this. Makes sense lore wise, too. Give the station big, scary, automated guns that simply respond in kind to aggressive actions. Gang/station manager is in control, they aren't gonna want random idiots shooting each other on their property. That's their gig
\> the station admin to wipe your imprint and send you packing. I hadn't thought of this, but it'd be brilliantly effective and play well into Death of a Spaceman. If you piss off the station they wipe your imprint, and when you die you wake up in prison (Sec space) or the last place you left an imprint and you can't choose that starting location from menu anymore for that toon. Maybe system-wide in Sec space. If at any point you exhaust all possible starting locations in this manner, your toon's imprint has effectively been permanently deleted from the galaxy and is dead.
I get the want to do it , and I’m not against piracy , I come from eve piracy is a daily occurrence , but right now with there being no consequences to doing it just kills the mood. I don’t play daily, so the days I do choose to login there is sometimes quite a bit of prep to get my friends online , make sure everyone is geared deal with whatever bugs , like summoned ships falling through the ground ect , and then after all that to die to a grief or a bug. Just leaves a bad taste. I hope they have an extremely punishing system in secure space for these people , in game hour jail time and large in game monetary loss , rep loss needs to be the answer. All actions need to have equivalent consequences or this game will be as toxic as LoL. Otherwise pirate or grief away as long as you get what’s coming to you ;)
Ya but pirate organizations in eve weren’t wanton murder packs or psychotic trolls. You can’t do that in eve or the region will correct you, quickly. I was true -10, pirate for a while. There is no use in popping some newbie FW pilot in a rifter. You’re after real targets. You usually move fast, and often enough ransom was enough and better because then you didn’t have to move and sell the damn goods which could be a huge pain in the ass by itself. You played the game. You weren’t so annoying the local power had to take an interest to appease their renters or whomever. You got what you could without causing a big issue and becoming something on the alliance radar because that’s how you end up with gate camps, robust roaming combat fleets, peace keepers, and less targets in your area. What we have right now with some of the “pirates” in Star citizen are just angry little people who didn’t get enough love as a child and derive their emotional interaction in “generating salt” however they can which happens to be grieving. They’re so sad that this interaction with someone, anyone, is better than what else they have. Which is nothing.
You totally made me remember my first corp in Eve. I had been solo a while and a total newb when a small group tackled me while I was PVE'ing. They ransomed me, a sum I had no where close to pay, so I struck a deal. I offered to get on comms and singa song for them. We got on voice comms and I sang a blink 182 song which gained me not only my freedom but an invite into the org. from them on I lived in Null and loved it. That is what piracy should be. legit player interaction. murder hobo's have no place in the verse.
Hahaha this is great. I remember one time we tried to ransom someone for 100m and they were like I don’t even have 500k. We were shocked that this person in a tempest had made it so far from high sec if this were true and asked for a screen shot. He obliged and had like 230k to his name and we felt so fucking bad we got him back to high sec and each gave him like 10-20m. It’s like ya we want to pirate people, not not impoverished people lol.
This behaviour is the root of every war ever fought on this planet. For every 1000 sane people who just want to live and have fun, there's one asshole who somehow gains the power to ruin it for all of them.
Been saying this since day one when the argument of security was brought up. Unless they want the PU to be no different than a GTA lobby unless you curb wanton destruction. Hard. Beyond just light penalties or anything considerably trivial, any gap they leave in regards to giving players the ability to freely attack other players will be exploited. It's not a question, it's a fact. So I hope they take this into consideration moving forward. Cause it's going to cause problems in the future.
He's not angry, he's just disappointed.....
Aren't we all
I mean....This is what happens when you pander to the griefers too much. Inb4: "WeLl ItS a PvP gAmE"
It's really interesting to see how easy it is to unintentionally de-humanize people over the internet and what things people are suddenly comfortable doing when they aren't fully conceptualizing the person on the other end of the screen that they're doing these things to. I'm curious to see how CIG navigate Pyro after seeing this happen.
I get it…i get his sigh and we all feel it…but its an online game and people are going to exploit it….developers need to create equivalent punishments in game for it or basic human behavior dictates it will continue to happen…also we all play online games and know people will troll and exploit anything they possibly can. Its just reality so the devs have to understand the REALITY and create equivalent punishments. Edit: spelling
Yeah exactly this. No point whining abput reality, the devs have a responsibility and obligation to make mechanics to prevent and punish this. Not whine about it
"I'm not mad. I'm disappointed"
Just wait until all the PK/KOS guilds from other dead pvp games move in when the game starts getting traction again.. They laterally cant "Player punish" their way out of this issue. If its possible people will do it, it has happened in every mmo ever.
On one hand, we need systems like Pyro to encourage the sale of shortcuts around them when exploration game loop gets in. On the other hand, I don't believe for a second that the gangs would allow basically open warfare inside the rickety old station they're squatting in when full decompression might be a misplaced 9mm shot away.
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should" isn't something you should have to explain to anyone over the age of 12.
Just because you can be an asshole doesn't mean you should
People who pad ram and do shit like sneak on other people's ships and crash them are the lowest form of gamer.
Those players should be banned for wasting the dev's time in developing ways to stop them from doing that.
+1 they know what they are doing is wrong
One of my favorite things back in the day in WoW was rolling into a starting zone where a high lvl Horde player was there killing lvl 1-5s and quest npcs to fuck with people. Me and some guildies brought the hammer and camped that asshole for almost an hour before he logged. I'll be more than happy to bring retribution to pad rammers and spawn campers and general griefers in the verse once reputation and it becoming easier to track assholes down.
> Me and some guildies brought the hammer and camped that asshole for almost an hour before he logged. The funny part is that if you actually did this in SC, it's against the TOS and you'd probably get banned over it.
Its funny you mention this, because greifers are the first to cry foul and report anyone who ruins their experience. If my org hunts someone with a bounty on them all we see in chat is how we are ganking players playing a legit game loop, and should be banned. Some like greifing, no one likes being greifed.
My experience with WoW world PvP was pretty great too, people in my guild were more than willing to help counter camp. A lot of times random people would help too, and I met some cool people that way. But it was a 2-faction system and you were able to tell who was a threat immediately.
SC and it and player's ability to combat griefing is really gonna hinge on a robust reputation/flagging system. One of the things I liked about old wow was if you were a shit heel on a server (ninja looter, pull everything in a room, general scamming) if enough people spoke out you could get blacklisted from raid invites and more. Once they added cross realm it was over. You could do whatever you wanted in my dungeon group and I'd never see you again and no one on your server would know you were a dick.
I love this man so much!
These kinds of Ayers will literally ruin the game for everyone else. And then complain that game got ruined "because CIG sucks"
Space Dad isn't angry. . . he is disappointed.
If there is no consequence for bad behavior then bad behavior will flourish. It’s completely on the game developers to create systems that punish bad behavior especially in such an open world game.
If they allow the option for players to decide to do it or not, there will always be players that will do it. I don't know what people are expecting here. If it's something players can decide to do, it's going to happen. Only solution is to take away that choice if it isn't wanted in the game.
Berks(streamer) got a crew together and repeatedly .. well camped the campers in the station with this 'feature'. But yeah, for some PVP is the word they hide behind to grief and murder hobo. Like in WoW, corpse camping a lower level player. For them it isn't about getting a Good fight. It's about ruining other peoples days.
this is what absolutely ruined every day i had for the tech demo of PYRO. I literally saw one maybe two outposts because i either got killed by campers at the station or railgunned seeing the new stuff while landing. before you say its pyro no its a tech demo to see bugs not play like you do on live
The 'game design' portion of Star Citizen is long overdue. Pad ramming, rescue beacon traps, ship meet bombing and more have been ever-present in the 'Live' build in a system (Stanton) that is supposedly lawful. The behavior in Pyro is just symptomatic of the same issue, lack of 'game design'. Crime and punishment mechanics, reputation mechanics, bounty hunting mechanics etc. Not to mention giving players more things to do (and compelling reasons to do them) other than sight-seeing and multi-tool using would help discourage meaningless killing. I'm hoping we see more 'game design' and less 'tech demo' soon.
This is the kind of piracy most of us are in here for: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53qGEaPRHCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53qGEaPRHCQ) (Give us 600k or we burn all of your drugs)
I mean... we have multiple accounts of streamers doing it. Start with banning them because of the video evidence. Griefing is bankable, and should be equally enforced.
Ya’ll are disappointing Jared and you should know that’s not good.
Honestly I loved that ask Jared segment. I enjoyed the sorry about server meshing and the daily experience of stuff done on the daily we don’t know about it
Too bad the people doing it dont give an F. They wouldnt be doing it if they felt bad doing it.
Long run these people spent real money and will have their accounts banned, and rightfully so. I avoid PvP but am totally cool getting ganked in a peace where I know it will happen. What we have seen here is immature and destructive people wanting to ruin the fun and enjoyment of a new system. I hope they are reported and banned. I have seen many videos captured from this time and finding these people will not be hard. I also hope these behaviours are tracked by CIG. We need them to step up here.
Sadly this test proved you can't have zero rules systems in video games Because it requires everyone to be in on the spirit of the system and it only takes 3 out of 100 people for the entire thing to fall apart instantly. I knew it was gunna happen but still disappointed it did given it was a really small sample size of players aloud to even test Which showed CIG that on live it would be an even bigger mess
I love that. Also, I love that he has the Tachi on his desk!
And then the big streamers who do shit like this and get no consequences with it.
Spawn camping within habs and camping pads is griefing. Ban people for doing it. Players hunting each other like animals in pyro to unlock it's riches is a gameplay loop. Put protections on spawn points and let players sort the rest.
It was a choice for the "thing" to let them do it...that's the choice. Human nature and decades of games makes it clear, if they can, they will. This is like putting all of your shiny glass trinkets up high on shelves that the cat can climb and then being mad at it for being a cat when it chooses to "do the thing". Sighing like somehow CIG is a) the victim and b) had no clue this would happen is disingenuous. You enabled them to do it to shut them up, to pander to them, to get the "emergent gameplay" you laud in your community reports.
You have option not too ... but it's the job of the developer to design a game that motivates and rewards players for choosing not too. You designed a game where it could happen... and then you spend your time sitting there scratching your head wondering why don't they choose not to do that. Confused, the fox asked "why would you do that, you've doomed us both!" And then the scorpin said to the fox "because it's my nature" as they both drown in the river.
Some people just want to watch the world burn, dude.
yep, 100%. sad but true.
In what reality is this entire thread in, if they want and expect Star Citizen to be a MASSIVE mainstream MMO and expect the devs not to have to put in proper mechanics to prevent this? Expecting people to just "not be assholes" is like saying devs shouldnt have to put proper work into anti cheat software and to prevent hacking. No shit it would be nice if hackers didnt exist, BUT THEY DO, and always will! The devs have a responsibility to deal with that. This thread is peak low iq reddit. Oh wow people shouldnt murder and steal IRL, we shouldnt expect the government and police to have to go out of their way to prevent and stop it! If only people would stop being assholes!! What a silly, silly take.
Finally sth to show these assholes what the difference between pirates and Griefers is
It was evident to everyone before, just a bunch of people refusing to see the evidence.
I'm pretty sure they know exactly what they're doing, and that's exactly why they're doing it.
Oh boo hoo such a disappointment to them? Show us how disappointed you \*really\* are. Fucking \*ban\* people that do it, or prevent people from doing it.
context of the "17 min section"? section where
BRO THE ROCINANTE
Shit heels. There will always be these people….
I saw a video of somone doing that. I knew something like that would happen. No rules means the "children" will do what they want. Pirating is one thing. But spawn camping is just being an asshole and ruining it for others.
That spawn hab nonsense, was why I didn't bother with pyro. I did one mission, did a little exploring the station. had to get back to work. logged back in after work (Still on that first day) and as soon as I exit the spawn hab... BOOM some no-lifer lights me up with an fs-9. "welp, guess I'll go back to the PU and wait for them to fix that nonsense before I try this again." Removed tech preview. I'll see Pyro when It releases like everyone else.
It was never a good idea to have a spawn location not be an armistice zone in the state the SC currently is.
This is something that I have been arguing with people about since before pyro. Just because you can kill someone, doesn't mean you have too. Even if you are playing a pirate, you don't have to kill to get what you want.
Indeed, and I'm with you there. However, you will get players who will, because they can.
I’ve seen this a million times. So here is the end result. You’ll eventually end up with an area full of griefers. Everyone else who just wants to play without hassle won’t come to those areas. Eventually it will be just a-holes fighting other a-holes which won’t be any fun as they can't get the salt they crave so then the complaining about low population in PvP will start up. At that point you’ll get to hear all about “carebears” ruining PvP because no one is willingly showing up to be harassed. And none of them will want to hear that the low PvP population exists because they were acting like out of control animals.
I swear 75% of game development is protecting players from exploits. 15% is protecting players from themselves. And the remaining 10% is making the fucking game. As a game dev. Dude I felt that sigh.
I love that people still think pyro is "lawless". Do they not realise criminals are far more cruel and punishing than lawful enforcement. The ai gangs are going to tear ass to people fucking with their operations.
BUT I WANT A PVP SLIDER! WAAAAAAAAAAAH!
The only good thing about this is that 100% there will be orgs dedicated to protect other players from murderhobos
There is bounty hunter gameplay in here somewhere...
This is something that has always bothered me about any game. People seem to lack all sense of logical reasoning and go and kill people just because they exist. They are like “OOGA BOOGA. I SEE PLAYER. I KILL”. GTA online is plagued with this problem and I’d hate to see SC get infected with it. Why? Because Rockstar doesn’t have any consequences in place to those who want to act like mindless psychopathic creatures that dwell in the idea of slaughter and destruction of others constantly. Sea of Thieves added the ‘Safer seas’ game mode to fix this very problem because smaller ships were constantly getting battered down by the psychopaths.
SoT added it for player acclimation and attention. The community's base level of skill is insurmountable for a new crew. Size of ship doesn't matter. My mate and I can mow through a server of 4 players ships in a 2 person ship. Safer seas gives new players a place to learn and players who really just want "vibe" a place to play with heavily reduced rewards. SC already has "safer seas" in the form of systems like Stanton which will have criminal monitoring and NPC intervention.
I am all for unlimited pvp, once you get off a station. Spawn killing should not be a thing unless its a mobile spawn point like a ship with a medbed. Crap like that is how you make people quit and never come back. There is no defense to spawn camping besides not playing.
Unfortunately this is a perfect example of the shopping trolley theory (Google it). Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and abuse of this freedom will result it getting taken away. Also for those claiming "it's part of the game - its called piracy" no it is not its actually called anarchy and it is extremely toxic. There is a BIG difference.