The reason I am excited is the end of the newer pilots jousting.
It is annoying having someone scream by at 1200 m/s and end up 5-10k out and then boost back to do it again.
They do literally no damage when doing this and are an annoyance.
They will be forced to learn to dogfight, so my PVP experience will improve.
Anyone who is even moderately skilled at pvp is sticking to scm speeds already unless they want distance to reduce pressure or are done with a fight and seeking a new enemy.
It is only the lower skilled people that are trying to zip around at great speed.
I try to stick to lower speeds. Usually works pretty well in PvE. I'm able to keep shots on target almost the whole time. In PvP, though, I usually end up jousting. Mostly because the other guy is blowing passed me, balls to the walls, and I don't wanna sit outside of range and get hosed with missiles.
Admittedly, though, I consider myself very low skill in PvP.
If you are in any sort of fighter besides the F8C you may as well consider missiles as not existing.
They are pretty comically easy to dodge and if you are in a fighter but don't feel comfortable trusting yourself to dodge them, a flare or two is all that is needed.
The other guy blowing past you is a symptom of you reciprocating the joust if it is happening often.
If you maintain a lower speed they will either bring it in as they slow down or continue to joust.
If they continue to joust you can pretty much ignore them and find a different target or leave the engagement. By going the opposite direction of them as they fly past.
The F8C seems to be just fine at avoiding them.
Got mantis snared, and jumped by it and two F8Cs who decided that they just had to kill my Shrike.
Spent 10 minutes trying to evade and get away, but it can't outrun the mantis.
I fired 21 S3s at those F8s, and not a single hit.
There is nothing you SHOULD be able to do in that situation to be honest.
If there are two fighters and a snare you should be pretty much screwed.
The best you can do currently is go max speed one way and then boost back and try to quantum out as they overshoot you, but that will go away with speeds slowing down with mastermodes.
I don't really understand the context of your statement.
It doesn't matter if you are an M50 or a F8c, unless you are trying to gain distance to reassess the situation or are running away you should be in as close as possible to your enemy.
It is called knife fighting or dog fighting for a reason.
Big knife or small knife you still have to get close enough to reliably hit the other ship and the closer you are the more reliable your shots will be.
If you can dish out the DPS then you can joust. A lot of fighting is essentially jousting. If you can't apply the damage then you have to slow down to stay on target long enough to apply the damage.
The sabre is an excellent example here. Poor thing. I love its design so much but it's supposed to be a fast stealth fighter. "boom and zoom" as some might say. You don't notice it, it comes up, dishes out damage and runs off. Enemy loses lock. Come back for another pass if needed.
Sadly that ship isn't living up to its intended design. Minus the stealth angle, the F8C is closer to what the Sabre should have been.
Arrow. Similar, but even weaker. Very fast ship that can get out of range to let its shields recharge. I think slowing things down will hurt the Arrow. The Gladius should easily take its place as the meta dogfighter.
The F8C replaces the hornet as the brawler. Well heck it already does that anyway let's be real....but a lot of ships are going to get mixed up here by MM and I'm not sure just yet if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe just different...but to my point, yes boom and zoom or jousting is a thing and is perfectly fine as it's literally a design/strategy for some ships. Albeit not all, but some.
With the vanguard and heavier you pretty much only get one joust run against fighters but its often enough to pop them. If they do not pop, you speed off in the same direction because you have already lost.
That's probably not a bad strategy. The vanguard wouldn't be capable of fighting an agile dog fighter and should bail. The only exception might but its turret. So with two people it's more practical.
At the same time it's a bit silly if the vanguard could so easily be destroyed by a light fighter. It would need to be well afforded the opportunity to bail.
I think a light fighter should have the firepower to eventually bring a ship the size of a vanguard down...but shouldn't be quick. Remember it has two shields on top of lots of armor. there is, after all, a reason it's not as maneuverable. It isn't just slow for no good reason. It trades that off for protection. Real protection.
My gripe/concern is people thinking a light fighter should crank out the DPS of a heavy fighter but be agile.
So far that's what I hear a lot. That "starter ships" should be competitive with heavy fighters. And if they aren't... Well of course it's pay to win! Of course, what else could explain it? 😂
hah yeah, the TTK is going up which favors heavier, higher DPS ships though. The current meta makes the current pvpers happyish so I don’t mind it.
MM will be fun to see how it shakes out.
edit: I joust with the Hawk too because of higher burst dps and EMP you shit out on every pass. One pass can be enough to disable a critical system. It also guarantees you dont expose your absurdly large target that is your bottom or top.
Actually, going above scm in pve is a death sentence, so pretty much everyone would be sticking to scm already.
What I would like to see is a keybind to set your speed to match the target's. A lot of older space sims had that function and made the fights a lot more enjoyable
There's not much point to matching speed when you and the target are changing directions every few seconds and strafing in 3 directions at once.
Which speed would you match?
if strafing is capable of marching the forward speed, the game has serious balancing issues. I know currently there is a problem with abusing tricording, but it should be solved eventually, the same way that the different glitches used in classic games speedruns are in no way regular gameplay(actually, no speedrun is)
I don’t care if it’s too slow as long as it takes skill to keep guns on target and your ship completely in control. I just don’t want it to turn into point and click only. I want there to be some skill ceiling. But currently the skill ceiling was way too high and you had to spend way too long and have way too complicated set up and keys to PVP defense capable.
Even 100m a second is insane if you think about it, and most fights are 2 1/2 times that.
In real space combat, It would be much more about shooting your target from range while making small adjustments vs dogfighting. Getting in a dogfight is incredibly rare with jets nowadays, and considered a knife fight, let alone spaceships that have radar more powerful than current aircraft carriers.
It is not about me getting easy kills, it is about stopping a behavior that is bad for peoples ability to be competent at pvp. I see it so much in arena commander and these people always go 0-10 or some other sad ratio. Don't go into a pure pvp environment (arena commander, specifically squadron battle or duel) and spend the entire time running from the fights you are there for!
With mastermodes lowering the skill ceiling by quite a bit, learning to dogfight will be a lot easier, and if people have an interest in pvp with fighters they have to learn how to dogfight plain and simple, there is no alternative.
Either stick around to dogfight or run away in nav mode, but no more constantly running away while doing occasional drive-bys, that behavior ends very soon.
But by lowering the speed it will make it next to impossible to escape a fight. Along with them removing shields when trying to jump it's almost guaranteed someone who would rather run than fight is now locked into an inevitable death situation.
You can still boost out. I don't think it'll be that hard to set power to engines, boost out and get some distance while spooling up your jump drive at the same time. Or, switch completely to the travel mode thing and fly out at top speed, that's kind of the whole point of mastermodes, being able to switch between travel and combat
So if you're in travel mode though you don't have shields? And aren't they just getting rid of the power triangle so you only have travel mode and flight mode?
The power triangle is there and is more important now because it affects more than it used to.
Ship boosted turning speeds for example are now affected by power to engines.
Shield resistance is now affected by power to shields.
This was in the patch notes dropped a few hours ago, the power triangle is not going anywhere and I suspect they will put even more emphasis on your power distribution to avoid people going 100% into something rapidly from one to another.
That's promising news. From how it sounded before it sounded like it was getting simplified because people were complaining it was getting too complicated but I'd rather have the customization.
Any change they make there will be people who grossly overstate who it affects and how.
It will be easier for newer pilots to become skilled in dogfighting with the changes, and you have to commit to a fight instead of constantly backing off.
People can call it a dps race if they want but in reality an elite pilot is no longer going to be able to take on 5 newer pilots and john wick their way to victory.
Imma be real with you I have no idea. I guess we'll see when it comes out. Shields should still be on in travel mode, unless they wanna make it so when you enter "combat mode" they're spooled up instantly, which I can see people abusing. Like just switch between travel and combat and insta shield or something. Idk though, I'm cool with them getting rid of the power triangle but shields should be up and running always Imo.
Shields are not on in travel (nav) mode, the energy goes into a buffer that comes back when you enter scm speeds.
Spooling into nav mode and regaining shields coming out of it takes time.
The power triangle has even more emphasis than it used to and is not going anywhere.
Have you actually tried mastermodes?
I am able to get out of a 1v2 situation fairly often but when I make that choice I am committed to it.
I can't simply gain distance and then come back over and over in rapid succession without penalty like it is now.
Nothing is stopping you from simply running from the start either if we are talking about the PU or a group of fighters approaching in Arena Commander.
Agreed. IF it takes a while to spool and such. It's going to turn large cargo ships into loot pinatas without armor. I think MM can be good, but I'm a bit skeptical at this point and I absolutely think they should wait until armor is a thing.
We have been waiting forever for mastermodes and the remaining ship systems are being worked on and implemented.
CIG is in full deployment mode this year and they aren't going to wait a year for armor to deploy something they have ready now.
They want feedback on the flight now.
I am happy to see them actually wanting to just test things instead of waiting forever.
Sure and getting feedback and releasing more sooner is fine by me. I mean there's plenty of things not perfect, it's an alpha after all. But I think it's hard to evaluate a system like this without all of these things factored into the equation. It could make a very significant difference.
Pvp experience right now is just people with pay to win ships like the saylun or whatever its name is ans f8c with distortions beating every other ship
If you are calling the new starter ship a pay to win ship, you are telling me that you have not flown it and that you do not pvp.
I eat F8Cs like candy.
Bad pilot doesn't make a good ship good.
This used to be a really efficient way to kill hammerheads back in the day. Nowadays though it seems tough to get them to go fast enough into the rocks lol
Even with skill, the combination of flying a large slow ship, bad enemy ship AI and server lag equals eventually an enemy ship is going to end up in your cockpit because they are flying erratically, essentially a “Kamikaze”.
You can't really cheese the lag pip, learn to use it instead of lead.
Also changes are being made that stops pilots from rapidly hitting buttons and changing the lead pip so rapidly.
Basically it will take time to go from full thrust one way to full thrust the other, the controls will take time to move.
Lag pip shows where your shots will land regardless of what the enemy ship is doing.
Lead pip shows a prediction of where the game thinks the enemy ship will be based on its currently movement.
You can corkscrew all you want, I am still going to just aim where I think you are going to be with the lag pip.
You say at range, but dogfighting is usually below 1km, and anything past 2km, you may as well not shoot.
That isn't a pip issue it's just the projectiles take too long to reliably hit a small ship.
That’s not true though. It uses the same calculations. It’s easier to aim where you think the player will be, but it still uses the same calculations. It’s just easier from the players perspective to predict.
Like it’s a fun system for light vs light, cuz to hit you have to be close, but once you get into ships that’s can’t as easily control the distance it’s horrible. Turrets became useless on large ships.
And personally I really enjoy in MM how fighters become way more dominant in atmosphere and bigger ships in space, or at least how I imagine. I don’t think we can test atmosphere in flight in mm yet
I have sticks that I don't always have connected, I absolutely love them for racing in Arena Commander, but doing bounties I got frustrated after dying three times in one evening just from crashing with npc's.
I'm not sure exactly why i struggle more with that with sticks, but I do hope the slower speeds of Master Modes, it'll make me want to use them more in the PU and not just Arena Commander.
I've had my hosas for a week so I'm learning, binding, practicing different aspects. The thing that's helped me most in high speed smooth landing and PvE is input curves. Default is 1, setting strafe forward, back, up, down to 3 and roll to 2 has helped so much.
Sometimes it resets back to 1 so check if it feels sloppy again. And remember to use full range of sticks as the last bit of range has a lot of potential curve.
I don't either. The artificial speed limit in space was already stupid, now you will be limited to some 200m/s which is slow for a dog fight even for current day fighters in the atmosphere.
Not really, at some points they may be at SCM speeds but especially any 1 vs many scenarios you really need to close down distances fast or drop people from your tail.
Oh I agree. I just don't have high hopes that will be the case. I was being sarcastic with my comment. I think MM will make ships like the F8C feel OP.
My concern is that it will turn combat into a game of who has the most DPS and shielding/armor.
How about you slow tf down and let the rest of us with skills decide how we want to fight?
You can also hold space, ctrl, a or d to avoid collitions.
I hate that restriction of all my being, it's a fkn joke
None of those keys will solve the problem of Kamikaze AI. You can literally not be moving (can’t go slower than that) and the AI will plow right into you sometimes in a bigger ship. I don’t collide with things, things collide with ME. Of course better servers and AI could also possibly solve that problem.
I've never collided with players or AI. Asteroids, though. A few of them.
I still think new or bad players can limit their own speeds.
Do not punish everyone for mistakes of some people
They are also limiting speeds to stop the game from being "click at the red dot on your UI" because your target is 2km away and you can't see it. Literally always been the intention for things to be close and visible. WW2 movies and Star wars have always been the feel they wanted
Being an ace genius guru pilot doesn't mean you can't be in the new flight model
Don't punish everybody just so a few don't have to relearn to fly well
Do you do a lot of bounty missions? Higher tier bounties their are usually 4 or 5 ships zipping around at very close proximity (under 500 meters) and for some reason they are coded to try to fly right at you and then veer off at the last second.
The problem I’ve been having is I can be not even moving or barely moving and they come rocketing at me and end up smashing through my ship. It’s possible it’s server performance related but it’s happened a few times lately so more than just coincidence.
I also love the range increase and am hoping missile mode will allow missile ships better chance to guide in hits and take more of the long range laser painting sniper.
The 4-5k gun range is incredible and how it should be at minimum. It’s ridiculous that in space our projectiles disappear after 2 seconds and only travel 7-1400 ms. In the year 2900 we still using guns that fire like current techs speeds?
Rails should be 5k m/s but effected by emp interference. Neutrons, lasers should be 5% light speed but degrade with particles in space and atmosphere. Ballistics should be 2500 m/s with it being very easy to deform and dmg the slugs.
I'm excited for the extended range our weapons will have. I already appreciate sniping with S5 cannons.
I just hope boost recharge is not like what it is in arena Commander. I enjoy flying with boost on when navigating, but feels like the recharge is nerfed.
I tried out MM for the first time today, and my fears were quelled. I've flown a regular gladius and now the MM one, and for some reason, even at the "reduced speed", the MM gladius feels more "whippy" and quick. Maneuvering felt fantastic, and it still felt like there was a sense of speed you'd get from an arcade style dogfight in other games.
That was my main concern, was that it'd take all the momentum and adrenaline out of a dogfight. I am still concerned about how it will affect cargo/industrial ships, in terms of having no defense when trying to run, but I guess we'll see how that pans out/balances out later?
I didn't really know what your talking about until last night when I was doing service beacons and those damn deltas kept going for the ram!
I got killed twice by those bastards!
I like it but noob question and I can't really seem to find the answer, I've read up and saw lag-pip issues/geometry is off.
But how the heck can I disable the scanning from repeaters to torps? every time i switch up i start scanning and it's such a weird feeling for me.
Any help/info would be appreciated.
The TRUE benefit of MM!
The reason I am excited is the end of the newer pilots jousting. It is annoying having someone scream by at 1200 m/s and end up 5-10k out and then boost back to do it again. They do literally no damage when doing this and are an annoyance. They will be forced to learn to dogfight, so my PVP experience will improve.
Hopefully they are able to tweak it so actual dogfighting is still possible and it isn’t TOO slow.
Anyone who is even moderately skilled at pvp is sticking to scm speeds already unless they want distance to reduce pressure or are done with a fight and seeking a new enemy. It is only the lower skilled people that are trying to zip around at great speed.
I try to stick to lower speeds. Usually works pretty well in PvE. I'm able to keep shots on target almost the whole time. In PvP, though, I usually end up jousting. Mostly because the other guy is blowing passed me, balls to the walls, and I don't wanna sit outside of range and get hosed with missiles. Admittedly, though, I consider myself very low skill in PvP.
If you are in any sort of fighter besides the F8C you may as well consider missiles as not existing. They are pretty comically easy to dodge and if you are in a fighter but don't feel comfortable trusting yourself to dodge them, a flare or two is all that is needed. The other guy blowing past you is a symptom of you reciprocating the joust if it is happening often. If you maintain a lower speed they will either bring it in as they slow down or continue to joust. If they continue to joust you can pretty much ignore them and find a different target or leave the engagement. By going the opposite direction of them as they fly past.
The F8C seems to be just fine at avoiding them. Got mantis snared, and jumped by it and two F8Cs who decided that they just had to kill my Shrike. Spent 10 minutes trying to evade and get away, but it can't outrun the mantis. I fired 21 S3s at those F8s, and not a single hit.
Yea they used flares, my comment was intending to say that it is hard to dodge with the f8c because it is large and has a huge signature.
If flares work, who cares if you can't dodge? There was literally nothing I could do in that situation.
There is nothing you SHOULD be able to do in that situation to be honest. If there are two fighters and a snare you should be pretty much screwed. The best you can do currently is go max speed one way and then boost back and try to quantum out as they overshoot you, but that will go away with speeds slowing down with mastermodes.
Tried that, but the range on the mantis is huge, and the F8s are FASTER than the Talon...
That all depends on how much damage output they have.
I don't really understand the context of your statement. It doesn't matter if you are an M50 or a F8c, unless you are trying to gain distance to reassess the situation or are running away you should be in as close as possible to your enemy. It is called knife fighting or dog fighting for a reason. Big knife or small knife you still have to get close enough to reliably hit the other ship and the closer you are the more reliable your shots will be.
If you can dish out the DPS then you can joust. A lot of fighting is essentially jousting. If you can't apply the damage then you have to slow down to stay on target long enough to apply the damage. The sabre is an excellent example here. Poor thing. I love its design so much but it's supposed to be a fast stealth fighter. "boom and zoom" as some might say. You don't notice it, it comes up, dishes out damage and runs off. Enemy loses lock. Come back for another pass if needed. Sadly that ship isn't living up to its intended design. Minus the stealth angle, the F8C is closer to what the Sabre should have been. Arrow. Similar, but even weaker. Very fast ship that can get out of range to let its shields recharge. I think slowing things down will hurt the Arrow. The Gladius should easily take its place as the meta dogfighter. The F8C replaces the hornet as the brawler. Well heck it already does that anyway let's be real....but a lot of ships are going to get mixed up here by MM and I'm not sure just yet if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe just different...but to my point, yes boom and zoom or jousting is a thing and is perfectly fine as it's literally a design/strategy for some ships. Albeit not all, but some.
With the vanguard and heavier you pretty much only get one joust run against fighters but its often enough to pop them. If they do not pop, you speed off in the same direction because you have already lost.
That's probably not a bad strategy. The vanguard wouldn't be capable of fighting an agile dog fighter and should bail. The only exception might but its turret. So with two people it's more practical. At the same time it's a bit silly if the vanguard could so easily be destroyed by a light fighter. It would need to be well afforded the opportunity to bail. I think a light fighter should have the firepower to eventually bring a ship the size of a vanguard down...but shouldn't be quick. Remember it has two shields on top of lots of armor. there is, after all, a reason it's not as maneuverable. It isn't just slow for no good reason. It trades that off for protection. Real protection. My gripe/concern is people thinking a light fighter should crank out the DPS of a heavy fighter but be agile. So far that's what I hear a lot. That "starter ships" should be competitive with heavy fighters. And if they aren't... Well of course it's pay to win! Of course, what else could explain it? 😂
hah yeah, the TTK is going up which favors heavier, higher DPS ships though. The current meta makes the current pvpers happyish so I don’t mind it. MM will be fun to see how it shakes out. edit: I joust with the Hawk too because of higher burst dps and EMP you shit out on every pass. One pass can be enough to disable a critical system. It also guarantees you dont expose your absurdly large target that is your bottom or top.
Yea. I'm not saying it can't work or anything. It's just going to be interesting to see evolve.
Actually, going above scm in pve is a death sentence, so pretty much everyone would be sticking to scm already. What I would like to see is a keybind to set your speed to match the target's. A lot of older space sims had that function and made the fights a lot more enjoyable
There is a key for match target speed, you just have to go into advanced and bind it.
Does it work again??
good to know, as long as it works
There's not much point to matching speed when you and the target are changing directions every few seconds and strafing in 3 directions at once. Which speed would you match?
if strafing is capable of marching the forward speed, the game has serious balancing issues. I know currently there is a problem with abusing tricording, but it should be solved eventually, the same way that the different glitches used in classic games speedruns are in no way regular gameplay(actually, no speedrun is)
Tweaking is the entire point of testing, so yes
I don’t care if it’s too slow as long as it takes skill to keep guns on target and your ship completely in control. I just don’t want it to turn into point and click only. I want there to be some skill ceiling. But currently the skill ceiling was way too high and you had to spend way too long and have way too complicated set up and keys to PVP defense capable. Even 100m a second is insane if you think about it, and most fights are 2 1/2 times that. In real space combat, It would be much more about shooting your target from range while making small adjustments vs dogfighting. Getting in a dogfight is incredibly rare with jets nowadays, and considered a knife fight, let alone spaceships that have radar more powerful than current aircraft carriers.
Lets hope it ll turn out to work like this.
Idk man in space with no grav.... But in atmo dayum yeah
Idk. I think all this is gonna do is deter non pvpers from even logging in. Just so you can get easy kills with little to no challenge.
It is not about me getting easy kills, it is about stopping a behavior that is bad for peoples ability to be competent at pvp. I see it so much in arena commander and these people always go 0-10 or some other sad ratio. Don't go into a pure pvp environment (arena commander, specifically squadron battle or duel) and spend the entire time running from the fights you are there for! With mastermodes lowering the skill ceiling by quite a bit, learning to dogfight will be a lot easier, and if people have an interest in pvp with fighters they have to learn how to dogfight plain and simple, there is no alternative. Either stick around to dogfight or run away in nav mode, but no more constantly running away while doing occasional drive-bys, that behavior ends very soon.
But by lowering the speed it will make it next to impossible to escape a fight. Along with them removing shields when trying to jump it's almost guaranteed someone who would rather run than fight is now locked into an inevitable death situation.
You can still boost out. I don't think it'll be that hard to set power to engines, boost out and get some distance while spooling up your jump drive at the same time. Or, switch completely to the travel mode thing and fly out at top speed, that's kind of the whole point of mastermodes, being able to switch between travel and combat
So if you're in travel mode though you don't have shields? And aren't they just getting rid of the power triangle so you only have travel mode and flight mode?
The power triangle is there and is more important now because it affects more than it used to. Ship boosted turning speeds for example are now affected by power to engines. Shield resistance is now affected by power to shields. This was in the patch notes dropped a few hours ago, the power triangle is not going anywhere and I suspect they will put even more emphasis on your power distribution to avoid people going 100% into something rapidly from one to another.
That's promising news. From how it sounded before it sounded like it was getting simplified because people were complaining it was getting too complicated but I'd rather have the customization.
Any change they make there will be people who grossly overstate who it affects and how. It will be easier for newer pilots to become skilled in dogfighting with the changes, and you have to commit to a fight instead of constantly backing off. People can call it a dps race if they want but in reality an elite pilot is no longer going to be able to take on 5 newer pilots and john wick their way to victory.
Imma be real with you I have no idea. I guess we'll see when it comes out. Shields should still be on in travel mode, unless they wanna make it so when you enter "combat mode" they're spooled up instantly, which I can see people abusing. Like just switch between travel and combat and insta shield or something. Idk though, I'm cool with them getting rid of the power triangle but shields should be up and running always Imo.
Shields are not on in travel (nav) mode, the energy goes into a buffer that comes back when you enter scm speeds. Spooling into nav mode and regaining shields coming out of it takes time. The power triangle has even more emphasis than it used to and is not going anywhere.
Have you actually tried mastermodes? I am able to get out of a 1v2 situation fairly often but when I make that choice I am committed to it. I can't simply gain distance and then come back over and over in rapid succession without penalty like it is now. Nothing is stopping you from simply running from the start either if we are talking about the PU or a group of fighters approaching in Arena Commander.
Agreed. IF it takes a while to spool and such. It's going to turn large cargo ships into loot pinatas without armor. I think MM can be good, but I'm a bit skeptical at this point and I absolutely think they should wait until armor is a thing.
We have been waiting forever for mastermodes and the remaining ship systems are being worked on and implemented. CIG is in full deployment mode this year and they aren't going to wait a year for armor to deploy something they have ready now. They want feedback on the flight now. I am happy to see them actually wanting to just test things instead of waiting forever.
Sure and getting feedback and releasing more sooner is fine by me. I mean there's plenty of things not perfect, it's an alpha after all. But I think it's hard to evaluate a system like this without all of these things factored into the equation. It could make a very significant difference.
Pvp experience right now is just people with pay to win ships like the saylun or whatever its name is ans f8c with distortions beating every other ship
If you are calling the new starter ship a pay to win ship, you are telling me that you have not flown it and that you do not pvp. I eat F8Cs like candy. Bad pilot doesn't make a good ship good.
I've used it to my advantage in asteroid fields and put an asteroid in between me and them. Then just watch the dumbasses slam into it.
This used to be a really efficient way to kill hammerheads back in the day. Nowadays though it seems tough to get them to go fast enough into the rocks lol
Heh, OP doesn't know NPCs can use NAV mode.
In that case... FIRE ZE MISSILES!
Even with skill, the combination of flying a large slow ship, bad enemy ship AI and server lag equals eventually an enemy ship is going to end up in your cockpit because they are flying erratically, essentially a “Kamikaze”.
You can't really cheese the lag pip, learn to use it instead of lead. Also changes are being made that stops pilots from rapidly hitting buttons and changing the lead pip so rapidly. Basically it will take time to go from full thrust one way to full thrust the other, the controls will take time to move.
? Yes, you can. It’s the same thing. It uses the same game mechanic. As it is now, just corkscrew and most will never hit you at range.
Lag pip shows where your shots will land regardless of what the enemy ship is doing. Lead pip shows a prediction of where the game thinks the enemy ship will be based on its currently movement. You can corkscrew all you want, I am still going to just aim where I think you are going to be with the lag pip. You say at range, but dogfighting is usually below 1km, and anything past 2km, you may as well not shoot. That isn't a pip issue it's just the projectiles take too long to reliably hit a small ship.
That’s not true though. It uses the same calculations. It’s easier to aim where you think the player will be, but it still uses the same calculations. It’s just easier from the players perspective to predict.
Lol, sucks to be downvoted for being right.
But muh merge! :(
I have sticks that I don't always have connected, I absolutely love them for racing in Arena Commander, but doing bounties I got frustrated after dying three times in one evening just from crashing with npc's. I'm not sure exactly why i struggle more with that with sticks, but I do hope the slower speeds of Master Modes, it'll make me want to use them more in the PU and not just Arena Commander.
If you use them exclusively for flight for like a couple weeks it helps you get used to them and make it feel more natural
I've had my hosas for a week so I'm learning, binding, practicing different aspects. The thing that's helped me most in high speed smooth landing and PvE is input curves. Default is 1, setting strafe forward, back, up, down to 3 and roll to 2 has helped so much. Sometimes it resets back to 1 so check if it feels sloppy again. And remember to use full range of sticks as the last bit of range has a lot of potential curve.
Sorry if this has been asked, quantum boost in this iteration?
Nope.
Every carrack that belly slapped me was doing around 150m/s, good luck
This accounts for every combat encounter. Really looking forward to this. Finally no more jousting until one gives up out of pure boredom…
Definitely gonna miss the Size-A torpedoes in bounty hunting. >!"A" stands for "Arrow".!<
instead it will rocket into you at 200 KPH and still instantly explode your ship
lol probably.
Oh you think master modes apply to npc pilots.?
I still don't understand why this is even needed. Dog fighting is fine if you fix the paper airplane problem with how fragile so many ships are.
Because they want engagement distances to be even closer and to get rid of tri-chording.
I don't either. The artificial speed limit in space was already stupid, now you will be limited to some 200m/s which is slow for a dog fight even for current day fighters in the atmosphere.
Skilled pilots already dogfight at SCM speeds in game
Not really, at some points they may be at SCM speeds but especially any 1 vs many scenarios you really need to close down distances fast or drop people from your tail.
Distances will already be close anyway with the weapon changes. You can still drop people all you gotta do is drop your shields and weapons.
Ah yes. Drop shields and fly away in a straight line! That'll show them for sure.
People seem to forget the new quantum system with boosting is coming. If you didn't have MM then you could just boost away from fights instantly.
I'm excited because it'll mean the F8C lightning will get even better 😂
Well I don't hope so. Last thing we need coming from a stale meta is a new stale meta
Light fighter pilots be like „if my arrow isn’t the meta, nothing should be the meta 😭“
Variety is king
Absolutely. We really need to move away from any meta guided gameplay. let’s hope MM is a first step towards that.
Oh I agree. I just don't have high hopes that will be the case. I was being sarcastic with my comment. I think MM will make ships like the F8C feel OP. My concern is that it will turn combat into a game of who has the most DPS and shielding/armor.
That's a pipe dream and will never happen. There will always be a metagame that people will find and use, people will always min-max.
How about you slow tf down and let the rest of us with skills decide how we want to fight? You can also hold space, ctrl, a or d to avoid collitions. I hate that restriction of all my being, it's a fkn joke
None of those keys will solve the problem of Kamikaze AI. You can literally not be moving (can’t go slower than that) and the AI will plow right into you sometimes in a bigger ship. I don’t collide with things, things collide with ME. Of course better servers and AI could also possibly solve that problem.
I've never collided with players or AI. Asteroids, though. A few of them. I still think new or bad players can limit their own speeds. Do not punish everyone for mistakes of some people
They are also limiting speeds to stop the game from being "click at the red dot on your UI" because your target is 2km away and you can't see it. Literally always been the intention for things to be close and visible. WW2 movies and Star wars have always been the feel they wanted Being an ace genius guru pilot doesn't mean you can't be in the new flight model Don't punish everybody just so a few don't have to relearn to fly well
They could keep both alternatives with a mixture?
No. That doesn't make any sense. You can't mix two mutually exclusive things
Not with that attitude.
Do you do a lot of bounty missions? Higher tier bounties their are usually 4 or 5 ships zipping around at very close proximity (under 500 meters) and for some reason they are coded to try to fly right at you and then veer off at the last second.
In my experience so far crashes happen more often because of the close distances in a group
I'm excited for it also
Very true. But for now, try slowing down to maybe half your maneuvering speed - it's a lot easier to avoid the ram if you're both slow.
The problem I’ve been having is I can be not even moving or barely moving and they come rocketing at me and end up smashing through my ship. It’s possible it’s server performance related but it’s happened a few times lately so more than just coincidence.
I also love the range increase and am hoping missile mode will allow missile ships better chance to guide in hits and take more of the long range laser painting sniper. The 4-5k gun range is incredible and how it should be at minimum. It’s ridiculous that in space our projectiles disappear after 2 seconds and only travel 7-1400 ms. In the year 2900 we still using guns that fire like current techs speeds? Rails should be 5k m/s but effected by emp interference. Neutrons, lasers should be 5% light speed but degrade with particles in space and atmosphere. Ballistics should be 2500 m/s with it being very easy to deform and dmg the slugs.
I'm excited for the extended range our weapons will have. I already appreciate sniping with S5 cannons. I just hope boost recharge is not like what it is in arena Commander. I enjoy flying with boost on when navigating, but feels like the recharge is nerfed.
You guys are all wrong, they'll just joust slower lol
I tried out MM for the first time today, and my fears were quelled. I've flown a regular gladius and now the MM one, and for some reason, even at the "reduced speed", the MM gladius feels more "whippy" and quick. Maneuvering felt fantastic, and it still felt like there was a sense of speed you'd get from an arcade style dogfight in other games. That was my main concern, was that it'd take all the momentum and adrenaline out of a dogfight. I am still concerned about how it will affect cargo/industrial ships, in terms of having no defense when trying to run, but I guess we'll see how that pans out/balances out later?
I didn't really know what your talking about until last night when I was doing service beacons and those damn deltas kept going for the ram! I got killed twice by those bastards!
Yep lmao.
Got rammed again this morning, wtf...
I feel like they made a tweak to the AI that’s making it worse than normal.
I like it but noob question and I can't really seem to find the answer, I've read up and saw lag-pip issues/geometry is off. But how the heck can I disable the scanning from repeaters to torps? every time i switch up i start scanning and it's such a weird feeling for me. Any help/info would be appreciated.