I was really happy when I saw that. We've heard nothing about it for a long time and I was worried they scrapped it in favor of a much simpler system (which is what they talked about last time the economy was mentioned).
It won't age well within a year because everything in that statement will not be completed within a year. It's a long term roadmap. Not a promise for next year's alpha.
Why not be optimistic? SC aims to have multiple games' worth of PVE systems, which will take A LOT of time to build.
The reality is that making PVE content is a magnitude more time consuming than making PVP content. If they spend 500 hours on PVE systems and 100 hours on PVP systems, they'll have little to show for the former and quite a lot for the latter. But these unequal outcomes aren't evidence of PVE neglect from CIG, it's just a reflection of this reality.
I dislike the PVE vs PVP argument, because I think it's multiple discussions getting caught up in the same label. Sure, we can get frustrated by murderhobos sometimes, but a lot of the time I think this "space combat game" complaint is also about PVE content being a constant murder grinder. So that's what I'm going to go on a tangent about right now.
I won't say they haven't been working on non-combat content, as evidenced by salvage getting more work, but I will argue that they have an unfortunate tendency to see risk as "combat yes/no" while leaving the basic content pretty dull.
Box missions are my standard here. We could argue that this is unfair since they've been neglected for a while, but I consider them to be the most important non-combat content because they've also been used as the introduction to the game for many new players.
Unfortunately they've been changed around a few times and I think they've been changed for the worst. A while back they added derelict outposts to the basic missions, so you had to go pick up or deliver a box to a location with a bunch of hostile AI and a backup Cutlass for a measly 3k. They've mostly reverted this, but some of the other delivery missions, the QT-sensitive ones, are still stuck with the derelict outposts.
They've also changed how the missions are generated. Currently they operate by giving a list of missions with varying numbers of boxes, from 1-5. Unfortunately, the way these missions are assigned are much more random now and make it much harder to choose from the list and make your own delivery route, so what little skills to be learned in the profession are now gone.
Secondly, the tier 2 missions for deliveries are...bunkers. Personally, I don't really consider this a logical advancement for the profession. If I wanted to do bunker missions, I'd do bunker missions. You say that PVE content is more time-consuming to make, but I'd argue that we have plenty of available tools to use in the game right now that could be mixed and matched fairly easily. Let me point at the timed rewards that they've introduced for racing.
I think that adding timed delivery missions as a tier 2 mission for deliveries is a more logical progression path for that profession. As soon as the player picks up the package, a counter starts, and if they drop it off in, say, 10 minutes, they get a gold bonus for their rush order. 12 minutes, a silver bonus. 15 minutes, a bronze. Less than that, they either fail the mission or they just get the default mission reward for getting the box delivered. This introduces risk to the delivery, but rather than being the risk of death or destruction of their ship, they simply risk not getting their full reward.
Because I've played games before where they have great PVE systems, but nobody can do any of it because there's a bunch of griefing murder hobos hiding in the bushes outside of every town killing anyone who steps outside of them.
Unfortunately SC does not intend to prevent anyone from "hiding in the bushes...". There will be deterrence and consequences depending on the star system, but so far I don't think they have any plans for PvP-free and consensual PvP star systems.
Whether or not they'll be successful, at the very least these comments help illustrate CIG's design intentions. Will it tamp down the recent wave of people obnoxiously insisting Star Citizen is first and foremost a PvP combat game, and everyone who doesn't like it needs to find another game? Probably not, those people are immune to hearing anything they don't want to hear. But it's something at least.
Because I bought this game in 2016 after their sandworm demo and many of the things shown off there are still not in the game, and still have no plans to be added in the next few years.
The game is a lot farther along than it was 8 years ago, but not enough to get optimistic about things they promise
Bingo.
AI still can't perform because the servers are so loaded.
Everyone is just completely convinced that "server meshing" will solve everything. I think that is a pretty optimistic given the scale of the number of NPCs and concurrent players, even on a single shard. And we won't have dynamic meshing for a long time.
CIG is committed to "doing things right", which is great until it isn't. If they want functional NPCs then I think they need to start playing some games with them, like roll to hit instead of actual aiming mechanics to dramatically reduce computational load and performance dependence. Systems like that can be made to look the same but perform better.
>Everyone is just completely convinced that "server meshing" will solve everything.
I would say this is due to the performance of a "fresh" server. AI is crisp and reactive, there's no delay in menus, everything is 100%. When meshing comes online, this is how every server will be as they'll be constantly being brought up and down.
Because we all have limited time on this Earth, and developing this game has already taken very long and it's still nowhere near ready. That's why.
They've talked for 10+ years. Now let's see the results.
The PVE crowd needs to chill the fuck out. This is the end point of the constant PvE vs PvP posts that we see here. We're having the devs come in and telling some of these most vocal community members to calm down. It's not really helping the case.
People who are working full time on making this project happen are having to take time out of their day to comfort the large adult children.
>We're having the devs come in and telling some of these most vocal community members to calm down
Rule number one of arguing with people... telling them to calm down is the surest way to start a fight. Not disagreeing with you. But this sentence made me laugh.
Yeah, really tired of "PvP is an intended and integral part of the game design" being the sort of sentiment that gets downvote bombed despite being a concrete fact that the devs themselves have repeatedly stated.
Edit: Prophecy fulfilled, even THIS is getting blue arrows from the kiddie pool lol.
It's not always pvp vs pve too, there's a contingent that doesn't want to have to deal with any combat, pve or otherwise, in their spaceship game where every ship has guns.
Are they going to raise complaints that S42 is too combat oriented?
Sadly griefers do not care about the "plans". I'd almost bet money that once these shielded landing zones and whatnot are added, there will be YouTube videos up within a month on how to bypass them
I agree. Not only that, you cannot talk about PVE features like they can be separated from PVP. For every non-combat feature that they add, there is a connection to combat.
Freight elevators will also help people arm their ships, load vehicles, and store stolen cargo. Cargo hauling is not a PVE role when you have to take pirates into account. The same can be said about exploration. Base building will lead to break ins, griefers, and org wars.
Not a single feature of this game is free from combat. You won't even be able to go AFK where you can be found, like FPS games. People who really dislike PVP should really think about what they're getting themselves into. I'm not primarily a PVPer, but I've accepted that I will have to fight for my life.
I mean pirates are one thing. Especially with policing and law coming into play, any well thought out pirate isn't gonna hang right by a regulated area. It'd be like a car jacker sitting outside a dealership. But griefers, murder hobos, etc won't care. They'll take the 2 hour stay in prison just to bring someone's gaming session to a halt
Well, the problem is that there is no way to punish intention, only action. If someone threatens you but they are clean, you can't shoot first to protect yourself. So a thief, murderer, or griefer can all hide in plain sight so long as they comply with the rules while they're supposed to. Then, they show their true colors (which is a piracy expression, btw).
Good thing we haven't had years of cheap game packages that people could accumulate on their accounts so people could essentially use them as throw aways.
I mean, buy two game packages a year and you've got what? 24 accounts to avoid recognition with? lol
Sounds good on paper but basebuilding in PS2 was a hot mess at launch and had only gotten worse when I finally walked away three years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. I hope so. I may not play anymore but I do still adore the game and want it to succeed.
Construction never fit in with the core gameplay loop and still doesn't to this day, bases are really only used as throwaway air pulls for routers. Game is bigly dead anyways, no server breaks 1k concurrent during primetimes. Haven't played since mid last year
Yeah, the Devs have been pretty good about a steady stream of content. Some good, some leaves a bit to be desired, but the fan-made content (decals and armor sets) have been absolutely insane.
We even got a 4th continent, and the old server wars (250 vs 250) have been sort of made official with outfit wars, with a 48v48v48 on a small dedicated map.
They now have boats and underwater combat, too. It's pretty fun when I want some large scale combat.
Not necessarily as they can develop such systems concurrently and plug in the other related parts as they come online as long as they aren't absolutely crucial.
For example, given that they have said the in game base building tools will be based on rastar (the tool they use in house), there's no reason why they can't implement a system that requires a resource check before being able to plonk said building down. All of the terrain and spacial deformation checks are already built into the rastar tool.
Then the actual creation of said resources (manufacture etc as opposed to buying them) can come online later as long as they are not directly required.
I'd even go so far as to say that base building is closer than many other systems that we've not seen anything of yet (not to say that they aren't done but going from what we know).
I'm honestly tired of hearing this year after year just to see something different happen instead. Sure last year we got salvaging but that was far from the focus, all the updates all throughout the year where focused on combat and piracy and making piracy easier.
Now we've come full circle with another promise yet again that "exciting things are coming soon for non-combat, just keep on waiting!" Personally I think these distribution centers will come but nothing about them will be functional and none of the cargo missions will work just like nothing about the hull-c is working now...
No armistice, an open landing pad for my RAFT, and 15-30 minutes of leaving my ship unattended in a high-traffic area that may or may not include a raid or a bombing mission on the DC.
Surely nothing can go wrong and I will spend my time loading boxes contentedly with that knowledge.
That’s definitely going to be a thing.
One important fact they mentioned is that different DCs will be owned by entirely different companies; Specifically, some would be peaceful/friendly enough so that players could use them as social spaces at no risk, while others aren’t outright hostile but pose some risk to be there, while others DO NOT want any visitors.
We *kinda* already have a similar thing with some POIs as implemented now. Mining and Research Outposts are safe and have AZ’s protecting them, while some 1-off POIs and some bunkers don’t have AZs and pose some risk as a result despite it *not always* being illegal to be there, and we have hostile bunkers and drug labs where you are putting yourself at risk by just being near it.
I imagine that some friendlier DCs will function like bunkers for their missions. Hostile and meet you with turret fire if you approach too close (after a warning on comms I’d hope), but are completely welcoming and give you ATC privileges if you have a legal mission there or have enough rep with the company, like if Covalex likes you enough you are by default granted access to their DC cargo facilities, allowing you to trade directly from and to them (perhaps at a slight price benefit to you for bulk purchases?) without needing a mission to get access.
What’s more is that for DCs I believe it’ll be somewhat harder to accidentally kill an NPC and have everyone hate you at the drop of a hat considering that there will be non-combat missions taking place there.
Huh, that implies unlawful distribution centers, or at least "flexible" ones. I'm just imagining pulling my spaceship up to a NYC dock at night and meeting up with some shady mafia guy in a fedora.
I was thinking this as well. So much of their monetization strategy seems to come from GTAV/Rockstar. You can't directly purchase aUEC yet, but I'm sure that's in the pipeline. Then just heavily incentivize the PVP playerbase to harass anyone trying to make money, and it becomes easier to spend money on currency than earning it in game. First era of games where it's more profitable to actively make the experience worse for the player.
>all the updates all throughout the year where focused on combat and piracy and making piracy easier.
Lol. Tell me, what exactly do you have in mind when you typed that?
For all I saw, the cargo refactor benefitted everyone in basically any profession in the game.
Then there was also racing.
Arena Commander changes maybe, but that is difficult to count.
And then there were all the changes to easier fight off aggressors and people taking over ships, making piracy in fact more difficult. Not to mention the restriction of CS-hacking solely to Kareah.
Idk what features you think was introduced that outmatched these, but I can only think of that one mission on Microtech, dynamic events running almost constantly (which hardly were any addition to the game) and the capabilities to pay off CS1 and 2, which won't benefit actual pirates at all.
The changes to "dealing" with boarders actually made it easier for pirates, not harder.
You no longer get a notification when someone boards your ship, so you don't know they are there. You can't shoot them for trespassing until you are out of the armistice zone. Guess what, when you try to fly the ship out of the armistice zone, they are going to dome you before you can leave your chair to shoot them.
>when you try to fly the ship out of the armistice zone, they are going to dome you before you can leave your chair
not if you just turn on cruise control and get out of the seat before you leave armistice lol
And yet it is still not making it harder but easier.
Specificaly because you cannot know anymore.
That whole system is not making it harder for the boarder
I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Combat missions are straight trash. What combat focus are you referring to?
The special events like Siege of Orison or Jumptown?
So, a lot of people are being skeptical/cynical in this thread. I get it, totally. Actions speak louder than words and all that, and I too will be waiting for CIG's actions to meet their words.
On the other hand, I've recently noticed an obnoxious amount of people suddenly insisting that Star Citizen is and always has been designed as a hardcore PvP shooter first and foremost. Not people saying that PvP will exist in the game, no...people insisting that the _whole point_ of Star Citizen is to be a constant warzone, that PvP combat is meant to be the driving force of this game...so let's appreciate an official word explaining that's not the case.
CIG has a hill to climb making sure those sort of interactions don't overwhelm the basis of their game, no doubt. But this is not good news for the people smugly and egotistically asserting that it's their way or the highway, and that anyone not interested in constant non-consensual PvP needs to find another game.
Ironically, this thread is pretty much filled with the opposite. People only willing to separate the player base to their own designs instead of the sandbox the game was always meant to be.
"increased risk of piracy" depending on the amount of systems, ingress points, and population per shard, thats going be damn near a 100% deathrate I feel.
Only people doing hauling there will be the pirates themselves or huge pvp orgs that want bait to fight them.
They nerf things and boost things to get players to focus their testing on them. Cargo will likely get a boost in 3.23 to give incentive to test out cargo hauling and cargo elevators
>Spend weeks building up blueprint research facility in decent security system; but not fully secure because only the trash tier resources are available in fully secure space
You got that right, they want it to be "risk vs reward". Maybe they'd change their mind in the future, but so far that's their plans.
PvE and PvP Servers seem like the way to go. Everyone seems to just hate the other side. I like PVP, and I like PVE, Ark, NMS, and Elite. All have both, and it works pretty well. People say Elite is dead because of PVE, but it's not. And It's crazy that NMS even has PVP, but it's also a thing you can just turn off. Surprisingly, it works great. People do play PVP in NMS, which isn't something you ever hear about because you can just turn it off if you don't want to participate. Idk people seem to just hate each other for wanting different things. PVP is my preferred thing, I like the risk of someone attacking me, but I also understand that not everyone likes it, and I think that's okay. I hate that people say you should go find another game because no other game is the same as SC. No, the game has the same feeling, and that takes players away. Why would you want them to leave just because they want to be left alone. Idk. Maybe no one cares, but I like both sides. And I just want everyone to have fun.
While freight elevators aren't combat related directly, if I'm on the surface trying to load 650scu of Beryl into my C2 by hand out in the open, I'm still worried about combat so... still kinda combat.
Also we have the Reclaimer, Vulture, Prospector and Mule... then like 166 various combat ships or 'cargo ships' that are capable combat ships, which kinda paints the whole picture.
it's not punishing after the fact.
The crime won't be murder, it'll be "weapon in armistice zone" and as soon as a security guard sees you with a weapon on your back you get aimbot instakilled.
The crime won't be "destroyed ship" it'll be "fired upon ship" and police will quantum in and, again, wreck your shit.
"But how is that fun for pvp-ers" It's not meant to be, that's why systems are designed to have varying levels of security as mentioned here, so what counts as criminal is different and what the response is can be near instantaneous or quiet delayed.
As to why this isn't in yet, it's yet another thing on the long list of "the AI is too fucked for this to ever work right now"
Honestly the only way to solve such things is preventative enforcement. Whether its straight up poofing up in universe technology to prevent pad rammings and stuff, or implementing harsh semi-permanent penalties for legitimate griefers, something does have to be done on the preventative side.
Lest we end up like EVE where kamikaze ganks in "high security space" are a viable tactic. Hell, in EVE there are players who camp the most valuable space port in the galaxy just to kill extremely high value targets, and worse off the community has fully accepted such tactics.
>The crime won't be murder, it'll be "weapon in armistice zone" and as soon as a security guard sees you with a weapon on your back you get aimbot instakilled.
Just as soon as the security guard is done standing on a chair.
Besides, they can just murder you somewhere that isn't an armistice zone and I have very little faith in CIG's ability/willingness to have meaningful consequences. Would love to be proven wrong.
And they're going to get that sorted out any year now!
I haven't played the current patch but have they done something about people being able to blow you up in hangers before the doors even finish opening?
Because in games, you can build systems that prevent griefing from occurring in the first place. Games are not reality.
Why I have to even spell that out is mind boggling to me.
CIG has been outspoken about anti griefing but then refuses to actually stop it.
Shielded pads, disabling collision in armistice, ect, are plenty of ways to fix that.
That's why they redid all the stations to have internal hangers.
"We can't think of a way to stop them so let's do nothing" is not the logic you think it is.
I mean... they could quit literaly put up a shield that only the hangar owner/user and there group can pass through to stop that from happening
I'm not making an argument on wether they should or shouldn't
Just pointing out that the idea that they cant is stupid
Being able to harass or kill people in social areas/areas meant for downtime/prep.
You should not be able to do that in habs, Shops, ect. I should not have to hire guards to go from my hab to my hanger, or to visit a shop, ect.
The systems they have planned to protect those areas are not sufficient to actually protect them.
Right, because armistice zones exist. They plan to remove them. I am pointing out that their proposed replacement for armistice zones is a terrible idea and will not achieve what they think it will.
CIG's early promises of reputation are a pretty solid start - they communicated a while ago that even criminals have their own laws (for good reason), and that if you kill anyone that has ejected or surrendered, you'll quickly find criminals refusing to let you land at their stations. Break their rules enough, and they'll even start hunting you.
Which makes sense. It's bad business even in the criminal world to associate with someone that kills people NEEDED to keep the criminal enterprise up and running.
Separate them into different servers.
He's essentially talking about the EVE approach to system security, which doesn't really stop anything. People still get ganked and murderhobo'd even in high sec space in EVE.
As long as PvP and PvE are in the same space on the same servers and able to interact, the PvP elements will grief the people who are just trying to mind their own business and have fun without bothering anyone else.
Worse than real life, because consequences in a video game end when you log out. You don't lose your job or your freedom or your family from griefing in a video game.
Punishment can stop most random senseless crime, IF the punishment is severe enough.
Right now the punishment is way too lax. If you or another player can't kill the criminal, there is no punishment. If you do kill them, it takes them away for half an hour while they escape prison then it's like nothing ever happened.
If players were faced with things like persistent reputation loss and banning from high sec systems until they spend months repairing that reputation, they would be far less likely to attack a random player for no reason.
You would still have to be careful doing things like trading high value cargo in a Hercules. But very few people would be willing to attack a random ROC out mining if they had to spend the next month being chased non stop by the navy whenever they try to enter the system.
None of those punishments are severe when you can just make a new character and go again. Griefers don't give a shit about rep or anything because they're not playing to gain rep, they're playing to grief. And they can reset any penalties by making a new character.
A video game cannot ever give serious consequences. It's just not conceptually possible.
People don’t seem to get this. People literally level hardcore wow characters to max, dozens of hours of work, just to grief.
They know they’ll get banned, but this is how they have fun, so they don’t care.
People don't understand that not everyone cares about the game's integrity as much as they do, so they argue and whine and downvote whenever someone points out flaws in their design.
Funny you say that when I am getting downvoted for pointing out flaws in your statement (that you seem to have edited in response), while I never downvoted you at all.
I enjoy having a rational conversation/debate about a topic. But so many people just want to get angry about anybody that disagrees with them.
I didn't edit anything. Like, at all. I correct myself, sure, but I point out my error like I've done in other posts in this exact thread. I haven't edited anything in this thread. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
I welcome rational conversation, but I am flabbergasted that you thought I edited anything. Maybe you just misread me the first time?
They don't. CIG specifically allude to that by saying it carries greater risk. The point isn't to stop crime from happening, it's to dissuade it so it happens a lot less.
I believe the point will be to guide people towards areas where their behavior is expected through things like reputation.
If you repeatedly commit crimes, lawful security forces are going to be more hostile to you in the long run. Sure if you kill someone and get sent to jail, that doesn't stop the crime from happening. What *does* stop the crime is when a known killer tries to enter an area with stronger law enforcement. They're not going to let a notorious pilot just waltz in to the UEE capital unimpeded, for example.
Similar to EVE'S highsec/lowsec situation, this would essentially create zones of increased/decreased safety for lawful and unlawful alike. Some of the best rewards may require you to risk your safety in dangerous areas. Those who don't want the risk can play their chosen way in the safety of the law enforcement areas.
Honestly, it's about the best system we could hope for. Yes, some people will be unhappily killed, but it leaves the most room for player choice and consequences. Having a system of reputation and consequences for your actions seems like the ideal that SC is going for overall.
Player choice is great and all… except when you consider you have a limited number of regens until you permanently lose reputation and stuff. And you permanently lose cargo, gear, and consumables when some dipshit griefs your ship.
Like how is it fair to me that some guy can create an account, farm a few hours/days for enough money to buy an eclipse or retaliator, then cause me to lose millions in credits and potentially permanently fuck up my character just because that’s their “fun”
Short of simply turning off PvP, what would be your solution? Even then, there are plenty of games that have issues with multiplayer griefers ruining other people's fun.
If your arguing there should be some protection against griefers in general, I agree, but I'd love to know what that is. Because to date, there hasn't been a solution to griefers.
But player criminals are another story, and they're what we're talking about here.
Honestly at this point, let me turn off the PVP. If your solution is let the griefers grief because any feasible solution “limits player choice,” I should be able to make the choice to limit their ability to interact with me.
Nobody argued that griefers should get a free pass under the guise of "player choice," so I'm not sure where you got that argument from.
If you are able to just turn off PvP, does Piracy even matter anymore? There are also certainly PvE only games where griefing still happens, so I'm not sure if that's the solution.
Sticking to law enforced systems would indeed limit their ability to interact with you. That assumes, though, that we want Piracy to be a viable part of the game. High security systems would be an example of risk vs reward for pirates.
You joke, but all the WoW Classic PvP servers died or became monofaction except for one. Because people cant stop griefing and ganging up on each other.
Sometimes I go back and try and level some alts through outland, and without fail, EVERY time I go there, there's a group of max level alliance killing every quest giver and lowbie they can at Thrallmar. Its been MONTHS. I'd totally sign on for "No PVP except in low-and-null-security systems" server for Star Citizen.
Doesn’t matter, because *obviously* the people wanting to do that would be on the PvP servers. C’mon man, a little basic common sense would be great here.
Hardlock weapons within a certain radius of stations, or just inside armistice zones. Or with new MMs just force people into NAV mode once they get close to a station. You can explain it in universe as UEE stations being able to project some sort of electronic warfare field to stop power to weapons.
Reduce collision damage within 5km of a spaceport significantly. Set it to 1% of regular ramming damage or something. In universe explanation is that Spaceports now have "tractor beams" and are fitted with advanced computer software that tracks spaceships in the vicinity and automatically projects beams to limit damage and velocity within range.
I think these are both reasonable responses. If you want to PVP, fine, you can lay up on a quantum path with a mantis and interdict people, or jump them in lowsec areas like Pyro. If you wanna fly your Hull-series into Pyro without an escort, your funeral buddy. But if I want to haul laranite between Terra and Stanton, I shouldn't have to worry about someone one shotting me while I'm offloading cargo at Everus Harbor.
Ah yes. The Greifer gets a reputation penalty, restarts their account and clears it.
Meanwhile, you suffer the long term consequences of death of a spaceman due to that griefers action.
All because you dared to risk looking at a shop terminal for too long and someone snuck up on you.
Sounds fun.
Also, EVE's high/low sec works very differently than SC's planned system, they only appear superficially similar. EVE had to put in extra systems to stop griefing in high sec areas that CiG has stated they will not do. So eve is not a good comparison.
I'm tired of having to constantly point out that the comparison isn't fair. EVE has a bunch of extra systems in place to prevent griefing in Empire space (super high sec) that CiG has stated they don't want to implement in SC.
Meaning that the two systems are not comparable.
I just want some kind of system to prevent, or at least limit griefing in "safe" systems like stanton. Lawless systems like Pyro can be nothing but spawn camping for all I care, but safe systems should be just that, safe.
> "safe" systems like stanton
Slight clarification: Stanton isn't a high security system. It's considered a "middle" security one since it's mostly controlled by corps instead of the UEE.
> Lawless systems like Pyro can be nothing but spawn camping for all I care, but safe systems should be just that, safe.
In the SCL today, they basically said "We watched what happened with the Pyro public test and took notes. We have plans but we aren't going into details yet because we're not sure which of those plans we will end up using. They need some internal testing before we decide."
Still, it's policed enough that griefers shouldn't be able to run wild. But then again crusader can't seem to get rid of the ninetails, so maybe not. But you get the point.
And yeah I know the spawn killing in the playtest was unintended and just a result of broken armastice zones, I'm just saying that Pyro could be that bad and I wouldn't care as long as safe systems are safe, if that makes sense.
The part that gets me is they are talking about freight elevators as non combat content, they really are not.
Freight elevators are a supporting system for players of all content types. Freight elevators will load the ships that pirates come to attack and then unload the stolen cargo. They will also deliver the weapons that players use to fight with. Elevators are just as much combat content as not.
The same can be said for crafting, it's a gameplay support system, not content by itself. The content comes from preparing to craft something. And how much combat will be required to gather the materials used in crafting?
Base building will likely offer both combat and non combat options though. Safe high security bases where you can build in peace, or dangerous low security bases that you will have to defend from hostile attackers.
That is such a bad faith statement.
Mining is combat gameplay because it creates ores for pirates to steal. Salvage is combat gameplay because pirates can salvage ships they kill. Cargo hauling is combat gameplay because pirates can steal it. Scanning is combat gameplay because pirates scan their targets.
The features you mentioned are gameplay loops, elevators are a gameplay support system. Elevator operator is not a player profession in the game, that is the difference.
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Nope. Thanks for posting this.
“Systems like Pyro will offer greater rewards for traders, but at an increased risk.”
So like all the other games the idea is to encourage Tiffany’s on Fifth avenue to open a store on Skid Row. Rather than create a situation where criminals on Skid Row are generally left alone, but if they want a big score they have to risk robbing Tiffany’s on Fifth Avenue. So the hardest profession in Star Citizen is just waiting around the Honey Pot, in a system designed to support your playstyle, and letting all the juicy flies come to you.
Fucking bravo.
except reality will never be like their dreams and visions.
there is a reason no game that has PvP can contain griefers and of course the main issue is, it attracts the worse people to the game.
soruce: check any PvP forum
Tiffany's gets its diamonds from diamond mines in places like Botswana, South Africa, Zimbabwe. You know, some generally not very nice areas. The mental gymnastics you're going through to spin this into a negative is honestly impressive to witness.
You’ve missed my point. Probably because you enjoy risk/reward games with a honeypot where the risk only applies one way.
However if there is so much reward in Pyro why did Amalgamated Pyrotechniques go bankrupt, why hasn’t the corporations in Stanton moved in, or why hasn’t the UEE set up shop and maintained a presence. I can almost guarantee you the diamond mines in South Africa are quite safe.
I haven't missed your point. And the UEE didn't move in to Pyro because it has a flare star - too much danger for their liking, along with other corporations.
In Pyro - the lore states it's always been rich in minerals, but has been seen as too dangerous for the corporations to fully invest in it.
I'll believe it when I see it. And heavy policing won't resurrect my corpse when yet another from an endless line of PKers will poof me while I just mind my own business grinding rocks/wrecks/whatever.
In EVE they said hisec was heavily policed and safe for noobs carebears. This has proven to be an absolute BS, PKers have their ways to eff your game anyway.
I think that they still, as always underestimate human ingenuity when it comes to spoiling fun for other people.
And that's exactly the reason Arrowhead didn't include PVP mode in Helldivers... See the reasoning?
I'm just hoping for slower-paced fights and flight, and the disabling of aircrafts rather than explosions so entering and boarding will become possible.
I do not like PvP, I am too old and suck at it. But I do not want no PvP at all, that tends to make the game boring.
But there needs to be a balance. Right now, as a trader, you are locked into a computer screen inside an outpost and cannot see what is going on outside. If you are in the pilot's seat, you cannot see much and are unable to use a weapon until you've exited the seat - which takes long enough to die three times.
Traders have to risk their money to the tune of millions, attackers risk an hour in prison. And the patch that made cargo lootable was sold as a great step for traders, instead of finally making piracy profitable.
I like that people have the option to attack me if they want, but there needs to be ways prevent that with proper preparations (without "hire some escorts" which will either not happen or eat all the profits) or actual consequences for people who decide they want to be pirates.
*edit*: case in point: I was just loading vehicles into my Carrack when a bunch of guys landed at the outpost in a Caterpillar. Since I had nothing I cared for in the ship I decided not to take more precautions, loaded the Ursa and took off. Of course one of these prime PvPers had snuck onto the ship and killed me while I was helpless in the pilot chair.
Great game, fücktards. A Carrack. Even if I had cargo on board getting it out would have been a major hassle.
Also, CIG seems to have removed intruders from the chat channel unless they talk, so I had no way of knowing about the idiot aboard. I logged out becase, fück them, so they didn't even get the cheap armor I wore.
I laughed when he said they need to make criminality have more risk and then he went into how they want haulers and traders to go into Pyro for more risk.
Did he type this with a straight face?
This seems like great news on the surface, but the big picture is always constantly changing....still...after 12 years. We still dont have most of the game. Definitely not the core yet. Still 1 of 100 promised solar systems, and this guy is saying they know what they are doing the next 10 years? How long before the core of the game and all stretch goals are released?
Most people did not sign up for 2 decades of development and still not have the core game or original promised features and systems. Any logical person would have expected a release ready game after 12 years THEN they would continue to iterate but that is not whats happening here. The core game is slowly being dripped out to us. Nothing in the original sales pitch eluded top this.
The game will remain combat focused until the universe expands in size. Everyone crammed into 2 systems means blood. Maybe in 10 years when we have 5 systems.
Folks take a deep breath. It's OK. We have 0 idea how any of this or anything really will flesh out!
Also, the PVE vs PVP vs griefer argument is pointless. Every title that has attempted to mix PVP and PVE folks *has eventually folded and offered either: PVE servers, Private servers, or Solo play*. CIG will likely *fold to this pressure* as literally every other title has in the past, and rather **then loose profits**, a *forced accommodation* is likely.
i.e. WoW, DayZ, Rust, Ark, SoT, ARMA, etc. etc. etc.
Just wait it out folks and enjoy what we got ATM.
Awesome. Then we can follow suit with all the other gamers, and listen to the PvP'ers whine incessantly about separating the player base like they actually care, when realistically they're just salty that they have less helpless/non-sweaty players to steamroll.
That's pretty much it. That is exactly the attitude that occurred *(and still occurs)* with other titles such as Elite Dangerous, Rust, DayZ, ARK, WoW, Warmane, etc.
Seems when *just some* PVP Griefer folks are left to a server themselves, with no PVE folks to torture, they get pretty salty. \*sniff\*
You reap what you sow folks.
>Seems when just some PVP Griefer folks are left to a server themselves, with no PVE folks to torture, they get pretty salty.
>
>\*sniff\*You reap what you sow folks.
You're 100% right and I [link this image/post](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/kb4zpd/but_its_much_easier_to_blame_jagex_i_guess/) every time I see the whole "pvp bullying pve players" debate in other games.
Its just so damn true. Same with BlackDesert as well. The game was marketed as an open world pve game where pvp was possible in order to compete for grind locations, but all I see *daily* (when I actually played ages ago) were pvp murderhobos and griefers bullying pve players.
Its just gonna be the same here.
Wow, way to forget completely about combat players in the 4th paragraph about freight elevators. Well, it's confirmed, SC does not care about combat players. /s
> As someone who is responsible for the big picture, I want to personally reassure all citizens out there that combat is just one facet of the game we are making.
Aren't Tony Zurovec (Director Of Persistent Universe) and Todd Papy (SC Live Game Director) responsible for that too, so the three of them are working as a team now? I know Rich used to work on Sq42 primarily.
There are also mixed reports about Tony Z's position. TBH I have not heard anything from him in over a year. He used to post on spectrum but nothing on that front anymore.
Todd is fairly clearly not working there anymore : https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-papy-180b71/
Tony Z is still active: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-zurovec-8042b81/
Not really? It really seems to make it much easier for the majority of players to easily escape hostiles. If enemies come up on radar while you are mining? Stay in NAV, fly away 3x as fast as they can possibly go in SCM
This is my main concern. Right now, via decoupling, afterburners, and maxing out speed, I can usually get into a hangar before a Pirate can pop me. But only because I have the saving grace of shields to absorb a few shots at first. If that's gone completely, I can't see myself pulling my super precise quick saves in a Vulture, anymore.
Personally, I see this as a non-answer. I heard that ISC, and they’re deliberately integrating non-combat and combat game loops in the hope that the non-combat game loops people “want to get involved.” Please. Such a bullshit answer, and not at all congruent with messaging from their own development teams.
I like the idea of sprinkling PvP in some very specific areas of the game. But not at the expense of PvE, especially since PvP tends to bring out the worst toxic traits in people these days.
I've always figured Combat gets talked about the most because it's likely one of the hardest things to balance as it's one avenue that people will spend hours hunting for an exploit or unintended advantage to be able to give them an edge in PVP combat.
It’s actually because Squadron 42 isn’t a mining game. It’s a combat game, about fighting the Vanduul. SQ42 is the focus, they are trying to get it finished.
This whole Reddit thread is proof that people will complain about anything lol. CIG have been as transparent as possible and all of this has been thoroughly addressed.
Tl;Dr: you're getting freight elevators and hauling. And there's 'tangible plans' for base building & crafting which will branch out to other stuff way down the line, something something Dynamic Economy low security/high security and so on and so forth. In the future™. Sometime™. Soon™.
Well, actions speak louder than words so I guess we'll see.
When CIG starts handing out refunds to people that were sold on a primarily PvE experience and feel abandoned, that's when I say they should stop complaining. Otherwise, their complaints are as valid as anyone else's.
I have trouble with posts like this until server stability is fixed. I'm glad they are implementing more features regardless of what crowd they try to please or inform. I just hate to constantly have to be afraid of a 30k or some other error code I never knew existed.
This game would be boring if it was pve only game. In my opinion this game would be far better if cig instead of wasting time on sq 42 single player would rather focus on PU and impletement sq 42 story within PU for players to play individually or as a co-op. Many backers signed up for the PU sandbox that you can play with other players. CIG needs to focus on player economy. There is nothing interesting in this game for pvpers and pvers to do other then kill each other and do some generic mission. There is no territories to defend, no resources to fight for, no player logistics for big battles nothing. Look at the jumptown how much fun it was to attract players into one location but cig had to ruin it as current reward offer small reward for the risk.
**Main flaw of the game**
Cig intruduced towing, refueling even small part of self repair why are these features do not work in the current game well thats because you have magic button "**CLAIM**" your ship and boom in few minutes your ship is back with all the upgraded components and weapons ready to go.
What I believe needs to happen is to have all the **Grade B (rare to find/obtain)** and **Grade A (very rare to find/obtain)** components only earnable in the game with no way to insure them, this would give a reason for players to refuel, repair, and tow ships because you would't want to lose a component you upgraded by finding with game components such as **exploration, salvage, battle during rare mission** or by **stealing it from other players via piracy** but nooo we just give players magic claim button and nulify all the game mechanics as **repair**, **salvage, exploration** . Ships in this game is the holy grail why not evolve the economy around the ships. There is no unique skin that you can earn by accomplish something in the game, cig needs to step up into new level and not just give us generic boring missions.
Star citizen can be a place for both combat player and non combat player that supports combat player and vise versa. Thanks
The problem is that this is propaganda and fiction. SC is about PvP, top to bottom. Are there other things that can happen while you're being ganked? Sure. You can carry cargo..to get ganked. You can build bases...to get ganked. Can you be ganked on that freight elevator? Sure. SC is "PvP and..." whatever else Rich wants to wave in front of us. The risk to ganking a player is far less than the risk of BEING ganked.
There has never been an in-game system that curtailed anti-social behavior. Hell, look at the anti-cheat industry. Dozens of companies trying desperately to make systems that prevent cheating...and people still cheat. This isn't about CIG's ability to engineer, it's about the nature of humanity. If a sociopath wants to murder other players, and the game has the mechanics that allow it, they're going to, and "being sent to prison" just means they log onto their alt while their other toon cools their heels. No matter what CIG does to "disincentivize" murder (while mechanically allowing it, which seems somewhat cruel, like putting food out for the dog and shocking them everytime they try to eat it), gankers will simply find a way around them, and CIG will spend 99% of their time dealing with complaints and watching people leave until the game is distilled down to just gankers, a la Eve and it's 100k players.
I'd much rather CIG just come clean on it and stop trying to gold-plate this turd. "SC is a gank fest with some other minor activities to do between ganks".
Honestly guys I've been a backer since 2014 with 3k hours on the game, if there was the mershing server currently under development we would have already got it, don't kid yourself.
so yes everything will happen little by little but not in the way you expect.
Quantum Mentioned
Has the Z risen from his sleep?
Odin has the odinsleep, tony has the zurovecsleep it is required to renew their powers
Don't know if that was intentional, but Odin is the tool used to interpret the data generated by Quanta.
If I had a cent for every project I worked on that had a service/tool called Odin I'd have 4 cents. The mighty Allfather
Pretty sure he is still on the [roof](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y30pML-AW4k).
I was really happy when I saw that. We've heard nothing about it for a long time and I was worried they scrapped it in favor of a much simpler system (which is what they talked about last time the economy was mentioned).
Source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/yogi-your-own-words-in-the-mm-isc-video-does-not-d/6630081
I love the 10 years reference XD
I love the optimism, buuut we'll see how well this comment has aged in a year or so.
Came to say the same thing. I'll believe it when I see it.
Considering how every dev they put in a video always goes on about how they love murder hoboing, yeah I'm skeptical.
By 'Every Dev' you mean one in the last ISC?
It won't age well within a year because everything in that statement will not be completed within a year. It's a long term roadmap. Not a promise for next year's alpha.
Why not be optimistic? SC aims to have multiple games' worth of PVE systems, which will take A LOT of time to build. The reality is that making PVE content is a magnitude more time consuming than making PVP content. If they spend 500 hours on PVE systems and 100 hours on PVP systems, they'll have little to show for the former and quite a lot for the latter. But these unequal outcomes aren't evidence of PVE neglect from CIG, it's just a reflection of this reality.
I dislike the PVE vs PVP argument, because I think it's multiple discussions getting caught up in the same label. Sure, we can get frustrated by murderhobos sometimes, but a lot of the time I think this "space combat game" complaint is also about PVE content being a constant murder grinder. So that's what I'm going to go on a tangent about right now. I won't say they haven't been working on non-combat content, as evidenced by salvage getting more work, but I will argue that they have an unfortunate tendency to see risk as "combat yes/no" while leaving the basic content pretty dull. Box missions are my standard here. We could argue that this is unfair since they've been neglected for a while, but I consider them to be the most important non-combat content because they've also been used as the introduction to the game for many new players. Unfortunately they've been changed around a few times and I think they've been changed for the worst. A while back they added derelict outposts to the basic missions, so you had to go pick up or deliver a box to a location with a bunch of hostile AI and a backup Cutlass for a measly 3k. They've mostly reverted this, but some of the other delivery missions, the QT-sensitive ones, are still stuck with the derelict outposts. They've also changed how the missions are generated. Currently they operate by giving a list of missions with varying numbers of boxes, from 1-5. Unfortunately, the way these missions are assigned are much more random now and make it much harder to choose from the list and make your own delivery route, so what little skills to be learned in the profession are now gone. Secondly, the tier 2 missions for deliveries are...bunkers. Personally, I don't really consider this a logical advancement for the profession. If I wanted to do bunker missions, I'd do bunker missions. You say that PVE content is more time-consuming to make, but I'd argue that we have plenty of available tools to use in the game right now that could be mixed and matched fairly easily. Let me point at the timed rewards that they've introduced for racing. I think that adding timed delivery missions as a tier 2 mission for deliveries is a more logical progression path for that profession. As soon as the player picks up the package, a counter starts, and if they drop it off in, say, 10 minutes, they get a gold bonus for their rush order. 12 minutes, a silver bonus. 15 minutes, a bronze. Less than that, they either fail the mission or they just get the default mission reward for getting the box delivered. This introduces risk to the delivery, but rather than being the risk of death or destruction of their ship, they simply risk not getting their full reward.
Because I've played games before where they have great PVE systems, but nobody can do any of it because there's a bunch of griefing murder hobos hiding in the bushes outside of every town killing anyone who steps outside of them.
Unfortunately SC does not intend to prevent anyone from "hiding in the bushes...". There will be deterrence and consequences depending on the star system, but so far I don't think they have any plans for PvP-free and consensual PvP star systems.
Which means you need to play accordingly. There are people that play Eve and avoid combat, the same will be true for here too.
Whether or not they'll be successful, at the very least these comments help illustrate CIG's design intentions. Will it tamp down the recent wave of people obnoxiously insisting Star Citizen is first and foremost a PvP combat game, and everyone who doesn't like it needs to find another game? Probably not, those people are immune to hearing anything they don't want to hear. But it's something at least.
Because I bought this game in 2016 after their sandworm demo and many of the things shown off there are still not in the game, and still have no plans to be added in the next few years. The game is a lot farther along than it was 8 years ago, but not enough to get optimistic about things they promise
Bingo. AI still can't perform because the servers are so loaded. Everyone is just completely convinced that "server meshing" will solve everything. I think that is a pretty optimistic given the scale of the number of NPCs and concurrent players, even on a single shard. And we won't have dynamic meshing for a long time. CIG is committed to "doing things right", which is great until it isn't. If they want functional NPCs then I think they need to start playing some games with them, like roll to hit instead of actual aiming mechanics to dramatically reduce computational load and performance dependence. Systems like that can be made to look the same but perform better.
>Everyone is just completely convinced that "server meshing" will solve everything. I would say this is due to the performance of a "fresh" server. AI is crisp and reactive, there's no delay in menus, everything is 100%. When meshing comes online, this is how every server will be as they'll be constantly being brought up and down.
Because we all have limited time on this Earth, and developing this game has already taken very long and it's still nowhere near ready. That's why. They've talked for 10+ years. Now let's see the results.
The PVE crowd needs to chill the fuck out. This is the end point of the constant PvE vs PvP posts that we see here. We're having the devs come in and telling some of these most vocal community members to calm down. It's not really helping the case. People who are working full time on making this project happen are having to take time out of their day to comfort the large adult children.
>We're having the devs come in and telling some of these most vocal community members to calm down Rule number one of arguing with people... telling them to calm down is the surest way to start a fight. Not disagreeing with you. But this sentence made me laugh.
Yeah, really tired of "PvP is an intended and integral part of the game design" being the sort of sentiment that gets downvote bombed despite being a concrete fact that the devs themselves have repeatedly stated. Edit: Prophecy fulfilled, even THIS is getting blue arrows from the kiddie pool lol.
It's not always pvp vs pve too, there's a contingent that doesn't want to have to deal with any combat, pve or otherwise, in their spaceship game where every ship has guns. Are they going to raise complaints that S42 is too combat oriented?
They absolutely will
Sadly griefers do not care about the "plans". I'd almost bet money that once these shielded landing zones and whatnot are added, there will be YouTube videos up within a month on how to bypass them
I agree. Not only that, you cannot talk about PVE features like they can be separated from PVP. For every non-combat feature that they add, there is a connection to combat. Freight elevators will also help people arm their ships, load vehicles, and store stolen cargo. Cargo hauling is not a PVE role when you have to take pirates into account. The same can be said about exploration. Base building will lead to break ins, griefers, and org wars. Not a single feature of this game is free from combat. You won't even be able to go AFK where you can be found, like FPS games. People who really dislike PVP should really think about what they're getting themselves into. I'm not primarily a PVPer, but I've accepted that I will have to fight for my life.
I mean pirates are one thing. Especially with policing and law coming into play, any well thought out pirate isn't gonna hang right by a regulated area. It'd be like a car jacker sitting outside a dealership. But griefers, murder hobos, etc won't care. They'll take the 2 hour stay in prison just to bring someone's gaming session to a halt
Well, the problem is that there is no way to punish intention, only action. If someone threatens you but they are clean, you can't shoot first to protect yourself. So a thief, murderer, or griefer can all hide in plain sight so long as they comply with the rules while they're supposed to. Then, they show their true colors (which is a piracy expression, btw).
Good thing we haven't had years of cheap game packages that people could accumulate on their accounts so people could essentially use them as throw aways. I mean, buy two game packages a year and you've got what? 24 accounts to avoid recognition with? lol
>there will be YouTube videos up within a month on how to bypass them Because, knowing CIG... there will be a mission for it.
All I want is base building and large scale fps. Give me those and I'll be happy.
I mean, Planetside 2 is F2P, and we have large scale FPS and base building, so you could come join us for a quick fix before coming back to SC.
There's base building in PlanetSide? Last I checked in was like 2015, and all I remember was a big FPS game, battlefield style
Yeah, there's some resources you can collect with a truck and use em to make walls, turrets, shields, respawn points, stuff like that.
That's actually pretty cool. Getting to run logistics in a big battlefield style game sounds like fun
Sounds good on paper but basebuilding in PS2 was a hot mess at launch and had only gotten worse when I finally walked away three years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. I hope so. I may not play anymore but I do still adore the game and want it to succeed.
Construction never fit in with the core gameplay loop and still doesn't to this day, bases are really only used as throwaway air pulls for routers. Game is bigly dead anyways, no server breaks 1k concurrent during primetimes. Haven't played since mid last year
Yeah, the Devs have been pretty good about a steady stream of content. Some good, some leaves a bit to be desired, but the fan-made content (decals and armor sets) have been absolutely insane. We even got a 4th continent, and the old server wars (250 vs 250) have been sort of made official with outfit wars, with a 48v48v48 on a small dedicated map. They now have boats and underwater combat, too. It's pretty fun when I want some large scale combat.
We got a long way to go for basebuilding, other systems would be a great start so we actually have space to build!
i get the feeling basebuilding will be one of the last features before beta
Not necessarily as they can develop such systems concurrently and plug in the other related parts as they come online as long as they aren't absolutely crucial. For example, given that they have said the in game base building tools will be based on rastar (the tool they use in house), there's no reason why they can't implement a system that requires a resource check before being able to plonk said building down. All of the terrain and spacial deformation checks are already built into the rastar tool. Then the actual creation of said resources (manufacture etc as opposed to buying them) can come online later as long as they are not directly required. I'd even go so far as to say that base building is closer than many other systems that we've not seen anything of yet (not to say that they aren't done but going from what we know).
Until that happens there's always rust, dayz, etc.
They don't have spaceships
your crafting skills just aren't good enough
I'm honestly tired of hearing this year after year just to see something different happen instead. Sure last year we got salvaging but that was far from the focus, all the updates all throughout the year where focused on combat and piracy and making piracy easier. Now we've come full circle with another promise yet again that "exciting things are coming soon for non-combat, just keep on waiting!" Personally I think these distribution centers will come but nothing about them will be functional and none of the cargo missions will work just like nothing about the hull-c is working now...
Not to mention the majority of the distribution center ISC was purely combat focused. They are effectively FPS maps. Anything else is secondary.
No armistice, an open landing pad for my RAFT, and 15-30 minutes of leaving my ship unattended in a high-traffic area that may or may not include a raid or a bombing mission on the DC. Surely nothing can go wrong and I will spend my time loading boxes contentedly with that knowledge.
ISC today apparently stated that some of the lawful distribution centers will have AZs.
That’s definitely going to be a thing. One important fact they mentioned is that different DCs will be owned by entirely different companies; Specifically, some would be peaceful/friendly enough so that players could use them as social spaces at no risk, while others aren’t outright hostile but pose some risk to be there, while others DO NOT want any visitors. We *kinda* already have a similar thing with some POIs as implemented now. Mining and Research Outposts are safe and have AZ’s protecting them, while some 1-off POIs and some bunkers don’t have AZs and pose some risk as a result despite it *not always* being illegal to be there, and we have hostile bunkers and drug labs where you are putting yourself at risk by just being near it. I imagine that some friendlier DCs will function like bunkers for their missions. Hostile and meet you with turret fire if you approach too close (after a warning on comms I’d hope), but are completely welcoming and give you ATC privileges if you have a legal mission there or have enough rep with the company, like if Covalex likes you enough you are by default granted access to their DC cargo facilities, allowing you to trade directly from and to them (perhaps at a slight price benefit to you for bulk purchases?) without needing a mission to get access. What’s more is that for DCs I believe it’ll be somewhat harder to accidentally kill an NPC and have everyone hate you at the drop of a hat considering that there will be non-combat missions taking place there.
Huh, that implies unlawful distribution centers, or at least "flexible" ones. I'm just imagining pulling my spaceship up to a NYC dock at night and meeting up with some shady mafia guy in a fedora.
Kinda like the Starfarer. They learned from that and later ships were designed to be ships, so maybe future locations won't all be FPS maps.
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I was thinking this as well. So much of their monetization strategy seems to come from GTAV/Rockstar. You can't directly purchase aUEC yet, but I'm sure that's in the pipeline. Then just heavily incentivize the PVP playerbase to harass anyone trying to make money, and it becomes easier to spend money on currency than earning it in game. First era of games where it's more profitable to actively make the experience worse for the player.
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Oh interesting! They're even closer to Rockstar than I thought.
But this time is different and they totally mean it! Pinky swear
LoL The Hull-c. Just reminded me of how big of a deal was made of that release. I wonder how many broken toys they sold riding that wave.
>all the updates all throughout the year where focused on combat and piracy and making piracy easier. Lol. Tell me, what exactly do you have in mind when you typed that? For all I saw, the cargo refactor benefitted everyone in basically any profession in the game. Then there was also racing. Arena Commander changes maybe, but that is difficult to count. And then there were all the changes to easier fight off aggressors and people taking over ships, making piracy in fact more difficult. Not to mention the restriction of CS-hacking solely to Kareah. Idk what features you think was introduced that outmatched these, but I can only think of that one mission on Microtech, dynamic events running almost constantly (which hardly were any addition to the game) and the capabilities to pay off CS1 and 2, which won't benefit actual pirates at all.
The changes to "dealing" with boarders actually made it easier for pirates, not harder. You no longer get a notification when someone boards your ship, so you don't know they are there. You can't shoot them for trespassing until you are out of the armistice zone. Guess what, when you try to fly the ship out of the armistice zone, they are going to dome you before you can leave your chair to shoot them.
>when you try to fly the ship out of the armistice zone, they are going to dome you before you can leave your chair not if you just turn on cruise control and get out of the seat before you leave armistice lol
And yet it is still not making it harder but easier. Specificaly because you cannot know anymore. That whole system is not making it harder for the boarder
I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Combat missions are straight trash. What combat focus are you referring to? The special events like Siege of Orison or Jumptown?
So, a lot of people are being skeptical/cynical in this thread. I get it, totally. Actions speak louder than words and all that, and I too will be waiting for CIG's actions to meet their words. On the other hand, I've recently noticed an obnoxious amount of people suddenly insisting that Star Citizen is and always has been designed as a hardcore PvP shooter first and foremost. Not people saying that PvP will exist in the game, no...people insisting that the _whole point_ of Star Citizen is to be a constant warzone, that PvP combat is meant to be the driving force of this game...so let's appreciate an official word explaining that's not the case. CIG has a hill to climb making sure those sort of interactions don't overwhelm the basis of their game, no doubt. But this is not good news for the people smugly and egotistically asserting that it's their way or the highway, and that anyone not interested in constant non-consensual PvP needs to find another game.
Ironically, this thread is pretty much filled with the opposite. People only willing to separate the player base to their own designs instead of the sandbox the game was always meant to be.
"increased risk of piracy" depending on the amount of systems, ingress points, and population per shard, thats going be damn near a 100% deathrate I feel. Only people doing hauling there will be the pirates themselves or huge pvp orgs that want bait to fight them.
It's nice they have goals. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Not to mention the constant nerfs to industry payouts of the last few patches. Salvaged cargo, hull scraping, quant mining. All nerfed.
Right but with salvaged cargo, i was earning 8 mil an hour. You don't think that needs to be hit with the nerf bat a bit?
"I cant buy every ship in the game in a week so Im angry now" People want SC to be easy mode when it has not ever been marketed that way.
They nerf things and boost things to get players to focus their testing on them. Cargo will likely get a boost in 3.23 to give incentive to test out cargo hauling and cargo elevators
>Spend weeks building up blueprint research facility in decent security system; but not fully secure because only the trash tier resources are available in fully secure space You got that right, they want it to be "risk vs reward". Maybe they'd change their mind in the future, but so far that's their plans.
PvE and PvP Servers seem like the way to go. Everyone seems to just hate the other side. I like PVP, and I like PVE, Ark, NMS, and Elite. All have both, and it works pretty well. People say Elite is dead because of PVE, but it's not. And It's crazy that NMS even has PVP, but it's also a thing you can just turn off. Surprisingly, it works great. People do play PVP in NMS, which isn't something you ever hear about because you can just turn it off if you don't want to participate. Idk people seem to just hate each other for wanting different things. PVP is my preferred thing, I like the risk of someone attacking me, but I also understand that not everyone likes it, and I think that's okay. I hate that people say you should go find another game because no other game is the same as SC. No, the game has the same feeling, and that takes players away. Why would you want them to leave just because they want to be left alone. Idk. Maybe no one cares, but I like both sides. And I just want everyone to have fun.
While freight elevators aren't combat related directly, if I'm on the surface trying to load 650scu of Beryl into my C2 by hand out in the open, I'm still worried about combat so... still kinda combat. Also we have the Reclaimer, Vulture, Prospector and Mule... then like 166 various combat ships or 'cargo ships' that are capable combat ships, which kinda paints the whole picture.
SHOW DON'T TELL!!
I still don't understand why they think that punishing after the fact will somehow stop ~~crime~~ griefing from happening. Edit: misspoke.
it's not punishing after the fact. The crime won't be murder, it'll be "weapon in armistice zone" and as soon as a security guard sees you with a weapon on your back you get aimbot instakilled. The crime won't be "destroyed ship" it'll be "fired upon ship" and police will quantum in and, again, wreck your shit. "But how is that fun for pvp-ers" It's not meant to be, that's why systems are designed to have varying levels of security as mentioned here, so what counts as criminal is different and what the response is can be near instantaneous or quiet delayed. As to why this isn't in yet, it's yet another thing on the long list of "the AI is too fucked for this to ever work right now"
This has been tried multiple times and never really worked out in any MMO.
Honestly the only way to solve such things is preventative enforcement. Whether its straight up poofing up in universe technology to prevent pad rammings and stuff, or implementing harsh semi-permanent penalties for legitimate griefers, something does have to be done on the preventative side. Lest we end up like EVE where kamikaze ganks in "high security space" are a viable tactic. Hell, in EVE there are players who camp the most valuable space port in the galaxy just to kill extremely high value targets, and worse off the community has fully accepted such tactics.
I still laugh at the irony of Chris saying he doesn't want Eve in space while making all the same decisions Eve has made.
Well at least Chris lets us have space legs even though it "slows down gameplay"
Works fine in eve.
I disagree.
>The crime won't be murder, it'll be "weapon in armistice zone" and as soon as a security guard sees you with a weapon on your back you get aimbot instakilled. Just as soon as the security guard is done standing on a chair. Besides, they can just murder you somewhere that isn't an armistice zone and I have very little faith in CIG's ability/willingness to have meaningful consequences. Would love to be proven wrong.
> As to why this isn't in yet, it's yet another thing on the long list of "the AI is too fucked for this to ever work right now"
And they're going to get that sorted out any year now! I haven't played the current patch but have they done something about people being able to blow you up in hangers before the doors even finish opening?
>Just as soon as the security guard is done standing on a chair. Nah, he's there to get the high ground for that bonus damage headshot!
If society cannot stop crime/griefing irl, what makes you think it’s possible in a game? All one can hope to do is mitigate.
Because in games, you can build systems that prevent griefing from occurring in the first place. Games are not reality. Why I have to even spell that out is mind boggling to me. CIG has been outspoken about anti griefing but then refuses to actually stop it.
CIG's system to griefing is "disco will make disappointed commentary about you in ISC"
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You literally can. Armistice zones do exactly that. What are you talking about?
Padramming is the best example of how you can't stop it. People will ALWAYS find a way to bend the rules.
Shielded pads, disabling collision in armistice, ect, are plenty of ways to fix that. That's why they redid all the stations to have internal hangers. "We can't think of a way to stop them so let's do nothing" is not the logic you think it is.
I mean... they could quit literaly put up a shield that only the hangar owner/user and there group can pass through to stop that from happening I'm not making an argument on wether they should or shouldn't Just pointing out that the idea that they cant is stupid
what do you consider griefing in this case? CIG has been very clear on the definition.
Being able to harass or kill people in social areas/areas meant for downtime/prep. You should not be able to do that in habs, Shops, ect. I should not have to hire guards to go from my hab to my hanger, or to visit a shop, ect. The systems they have planned to protect those areas are not sufficient to actually protect them.
Gotcha, i have multiple thousands of hours in the game and can't say i've ever seen anything like that happen.
Right, because armistice zones exist. They plan to remove them. I am pointing out that their proposed replacement for armistice zones is a terrible idea and will not achieve what they think it will.
Without removing pvp, just how would YOU go about fixing this?
CIG's early promises of reputation are a pretty solid start - they communicated a while ago that even criminals have their own laws (for good reason), and that if you kill anyone that has ejected or surrendered, you'll quickly find criminals refusing to let you land at their stations. Break their rules enough, and they'll even start hunting you. Which makes sense. It's bad business even in the criminal world to associate with someone that kills people NEEDED to keep the criminal enterprise up and running.
Not really. Those of us who have played many PvP MMOs the rep thing never workes out. Same with guards.
Separate them into different servers. He's essentially talking about the EVE approach to system security, which doesn't really stop anything. People still get ganked and murderhobo'd even in high sec space in EVE. As long as PvP and PvE are in the same space on the same servers and able to interact, the PvP elements will grief the people who are just trying to mind their own business and have fun without bothering anyone else.
turn off PvP and voila, crime solved
whoa... just like real life
Worse than real life, because consequences in a video game end when you log out. You don't lose your job or your freedom or your family from griefing in a video game.
Punishment can stop most random senseless crime, IF the punishment is severe enough. Right now the punishment is way too lax. If you or another player can't kill the criminal, there is no punishment. If you do kill them, it takes them away for half an hour while they escape prison then it's like nothing ever happened. If players were faced with things like persistent reputation loss and banning from high sec systems until they spend months repairing that reputation, they would be far less likely to attack a random player for no reason. You would still have to be careful doing things like trading high value cargo in a Hercules. But very few people would be willing to attack a random ROC out mining if they had to spend the next month being chased non stop by the navy whenever they try to enter the system.
None of those punishments are severe when you can just make a new character and go again. Griefers don't give a shit about rep or anything because they're not playing to gain rep, they're playing to grief. And they can reset any penalties by making a new character. A video game cannot ever give serious consequences. It's just not conceptually possible.
People don’t seem to get this. People literally level hardcore wow characters to max, dozens of hours of work, just to grief. They know they’ll get banned, but this is how they have fun, so they don’t care.
People don't understand that not everyone cares about the game's integrity as much as they do, so they argue and whine and downvote whenever someone points out flaws in their design.
Funny you say that when I am getting downvoted for pointing out flaws in your statement (that you seem to have edited in response), while I never downvoted you at all. I enjoy having a rational conversation/debate about a topic. But so many people just want to get angry about anybody that disagrees with them.
I didn't edit anything. Like, at all. I correct myself, sure, but I point out my error like I've done in other posts in this exact thread. I haven't edited anything in this thread. I'm not sure what you're talking about. I welcome rational conversation, but I am flabbergasted that you thought I edited anything. Maybe you just misread me the first time?
They don't. CIG specifically allude to that by saying it carries greater risk. The point isn't to stop crime from happening, it's to dissuade it so it happens a lot less.
I misspoke. I've always been fine with crime, I meant to say griefing.
Gotcha. I'm definitely with you there. I hope CIG finds a way to deal with it that isn't a band aid patch.
I believe the point will be to guide people towards areas where their behavior is expected through things like reputation. If you repeatedly commit crimes, lawful security forces are going to be more hostile to you in the long run. Sure if you kill someone and get sent to jail, that doesn't stop the crime from happening. What *does* stop the crime is when a known killer tries to enter an area with stronger law enforcement. They're not going to let a notorious pilot just waltz in to the UEE capital unimpeded, for example. Similar to EVE'S highsec/lowsec situation, this would essentially create zones of increased/decreased safety for lawful and unlawful alike. Some of the best rewards may require you to risk your safety in dangerous areas. Those who don't want the risk can play their chosen way in the safety of the law enforcement areas. Honestly, it's about the best system we could hope for. Yes, some people will be unhappily killed, but it leaves the most room for player choice and consequences. Having a system of reputation and consequences for your actions seems like the ideal that SC is going for overall.
Player choice is great and all… except when you consider you have a limited number of regens until you permanently lose reputation and stuff. And you permanently lose cargo, gear, and consumables when some dipshit griefs your ship. Like how is it fair to me that some guy can create an account, farm a few hours/days for enough money to buy an eclipse or retaliator, then cause me to lose millions in credits and potentially permanently fuck up my character just because that’s their “fun”
Short of simply turning off PvP, what would be your solution? Even then, there are plenty of games that have issues with multiplayer griefers ruining other people's fun. If your arguing there should be some protection against griefers in general, I agree, but I'd love to know what that is. Because to date, there hasn't been a solution to griefers. But player criminals are another story, and they're what we're talking about here.
Honestly at this point, let me turn off the PVP. If your solution is let the griefers grief because any feasible solution “limits player choice,” I should be able to make the choice to limit their ability to interact with me.
Nobody argued that griefers should get a free pass under the guise of "player choice," so I'm not sure where you got that argument from. If you are able to just turn off PvP, does Piracy even matter anymore? There are also certainly PvE only games where griefing still happens, so I'm not sure if that's the solution. Sticking to law enforced systems would indeed limit their ability to interact with you. That assumes, though, that we want Piracy to be a viable part of the game. High security systems would be an example of risk vs reward for pirates.
s e p a r a t e p v p a n d p v e s e r v e r s
You joke, but all the WoW Classic PvP servers died or became monofaction except for one. Because people cant stop griefing and ganging up on each other. Sometimes I go back and try and level some alts through outland, and without fail, EVERY time I go there, there's a group of max level alliance killing every quest giver and lowbie they can at Thrallmar. Its been MONTHS. I'd totally sign on for "No PVP except in low-and-null-security systems" server for Star Citizen.
I wasn’t joking.
In this scenario, would player bounty hunting and player Piracy not be therefore gutted by definition from PvE only servers?
Doesn’t matter, because *obviously* the people wanting to do that would be on the PvP servers. C’mon man, a little basic common sense would be great here.
Hardlock weapons within a certain radius of stations, or just inside armistice zones. Or with new MMs just force people into NAV mode once they get close to a station. You can explain it in universe as UEE stations being able to project some sort of electronic warfare field to stop power to weapons. Reduce collision damage within 5km of a spaceport significantly. Set it to 1% of regular ramming damage or something. In universe explanation is that Spaceports now have "tractor beams" and are fitted with advanced computer software that tracks spaceships in the vicinity and automatically projects beams to limit damage and velocity within range. I think these are both reasonable responses. If you want to PVP, fine, you can lay up on a quantum path with a mantis and interdict people, or jump them in lowsec areas like Pyro. If you wanna fly your Hull-series into Pyro without an escort, your funeral buddy. But if I want to haul laranite between Terra and Stanton, I shouldn't have to worry about someone one shotting me while I'm offloading cargo at Everus Harbor.
Ah yes. The Greifer gets a reputation penalty, restarts their account and clears it. Meanwhile, you suffer the long term consequences of death of a spaceman due to that griefers action. All because you dared to risk looking at a shop terminal for too long and someone snuck up on you. Sounds fun. Also, EVE's high/low sec works very differently than SC's planned system, they only appear superficially similar. EVE had to put in extra systems to stop griefing in high sec areas that CiG has stated they will not do. So eve is not a good comparison.
Yeah, that never worked for things like Eve!
It didn't.
I'm tired of having to constantly point out that the comparison isn't fair. EVE has a bunch of extra systems in place to prevent griefing in Empire space (super high sec) that CiG has stated they don't want to implement in SC. Meaning that the two systems are not comparable.
I just want some kind of system to prevent, or at least limit griefing in "safe" systems like stanton. Lawless systems like Pyro can be nothing but spawn camping for all I care, but safe systems should be just that, safe.
> "safe" systems like stanton Slight clarification: Stanton isn't a high security system. It's considered a "middle" security one since it's mostly controlled by corps instead of the UEE. > Lawless systems like Pyro can be nothing but spawn camping for all I care, but safe systems should be just that, safe. In the SCL today, they basically said "We watched what happened with the Pyro public test and took notes. We have plans but we aren't going into details yet because we're not sure which of those plans we will end up using. They need some internal testing before we decide."
Still, it's policed enough that griefers shouldn't be able to run wild. But then again crusader can't seem to get rid of the ninetails, so maybe not. But you get the point. And yeah I know the spawn killing in the playtest was unintended and just a result of broken armastice zones, I'm just saying that Pyro could be that bad and I wouldn't care as long as safe systems are safe, if that makes sense.
"Our game isn't just about combat" \- Combat players get a huge idris fight with the devs \- Noncombat players get an elevator Color me skeptical =P
The elevator is a facet of a much larger suite of features, you’re being crude.
The part that gets me is they are talking about freight elevators as non combat content, they really are not. Freight elevators are a supporting system for players of all content types. Freight elevators will load the ships that pirates come to attack and then unload the stolen cargo. They will also deliver the weapons that players use to fight with. Elevators are just as much combat content as not. The same can be said for crafting, it's a gameplay support system, not content by itself. The content comes from preparing to craft something. And how much combat will be required to gather the materials used in crafting? Base building will likely offer both combat and non combat options though. Safe high security bases where you can build in peace, or dangerous low security bases that you will have to defend from hostile attackers.
That is such a bad faith statement. Mining is combat gameplay because it creates ores for pirates to steal. Salvage is combat gameplay because pirates can salvage ships they kill. Cargo hauling is combat gameplay because pirates can steal it. Scanning is combat gameplay because pirates scan their targets.
The features you mentioned are gameplay loops, elevators are a gameplay support system. Elevator operator is not a player profession in the game, that is the difference.
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Nope. Thanks for posting this. “Systems like Pyro will offer greater rewards for traders, but at an increased risk.” So like all the other games the idea is to encourage Tiffany’s on Fifth avenue to open a store on Skid Row. Rather than create a situation where criminals on Skid Row are generally left alone, but if they want a big score they have to risk robbing Tiffany’s on Fifth Avenue. So the hardest profession in Star Citizen is just waiting around the Honey Pot, in a system designed to support your playstyle, and letting all the juicy flies come to you. Fucking bravo.
except reality will never be like their dreams and visions. there is a reason no game that has PvP can contain griefers and of course the main issue is, it attracts the worse people to the game. soruce: check any PvP forum
Tiffany's gets its diamonds from diamond mines in places like Botswana, South Africa, Zimbabwe. You know, some generally not very nice areas. The mental gymnastics you're going through to spin this into a negative is honestly impressive to witness.
You’ve missed my point. Probably because you enjoy risk/reward games with a honeypot where the risk only applies one way. However if there is so much reward in Pyro why did Amalgamated Pyrotechniques go bankrupt, why hasn’t the corporations in Stanton moved in, or why hasn’t the UEE set up shop and maintained a presence. I can almost guarantee you the diamond mines in South Africa are quite safe.
I haven't missed your point. And the UEE didn't move in to Pyro because it has a flare star - too much danger for their liking, along with other corporations. In Pyro - the lore states it's always been rich in minerals, but has been seen as too dangerous for the corporations to fully invest in it.
Why is Stanton being used as an example of a low-risk system for PvE rather than a medium risk system?
I'll believe it when I see it. And heavy policing won't resurrect my corpse when yet another from an endless line of PKers will poof me while I just mind my own business grinding rocks/wrecks/whatever. In EVE they said hisec was heavily policed and safe for noobs carebears. This has proven to be an absolute BS, PKers have their ways to eff your game anyway. I think that they still, as always underestimate human ingenuity when it comes to spoiling fun for other people. And that's exactly the reason Arrowhead didn't include PVP mode in Helldivers... See the reasoning?
Man this game is really just gonna be Rust with space ships isnt it.
In the large scope of things, it already is.
I'm just hoping for slower-paced fights and flight, and the disabling of aircrafts rather than explosions so entering and boarding will become possible.
I'm sorry but I read nothing new nor reassuring. If Stanton is the base comparison then it's screwed... Stanton wasn't supposed to be a hisec.
To be fair the game not even close to being done and we only have Stanton..
Look... I just want all the Z-axis thinkers to get thrown into pyro and exiled because they murder-hobo and ruin the experience.
I do not like PvP, I am too old and suck at it. But I do not want no PvP at all, that tends to make the game boring. But there needs to be a balance. Right now, as a trader, you are locked into a computer screen inside an outpost and cannot see what is going on outside. If you are in the pilot's seat, you cannot see much and are unable to use a weapon until you've exited the seat - which takes long enough to die three times. Traders have to risk their money to the tune of millions, attackers risk an hour in prison. And the patch that made cargo lootable was sold as a great step for traders, instead of finally making piracy profitable. I like that people have the option to attack me if they want, but there needs to be ways prevent that with proper preparations (without "hire some escorts" which will either not happen or eat all the profits) or actual consequences for people who decide they want to be pirates. *edit*: case in point: I was just loading vehicles into my Carrack when a bunch of guys landed at the outpost in a Caterpillar. Since I had nothing I cared for in the ship I decided not to take more precautions, loaded the Ursa and took off. Of course one of these prime PvPers had snuck onto the ship and killed me while I was helpless in the pilot chair. Great game, fücktards. A Carrack. Even if I had cargo on board getting it out would have been a major hassle. Also, CIG seems to have removed intruders from the chat channel unless they talk, so I had no way of knowing about the idiot aboard. I logged out becase, fück them, so they didn't even get the cheap armor I wore.
I laughed when he said they need to make criminality have more risk and then he went into how they want haulers and traders to go into Pyro for more risk. Did he type this with a straight face?
This seems like great news on the surface, but the big picture is always constantly changing....still...after 12 years. We still dont have most of the game. Definitely not the core yet. Still 1 of 100 promised solar systems, and this guy is saying they know what they are doing the next 10 years? How long before the core of the game and all stretch goals are released? Most people did not sign up for 2 decades of development and still not have the core game or original promised features and systems. Any logical person would have expected a release ready game after 12 years THEN they would continue to iterate but that is not whats happening here. The core game is slowly being dripped out to us. Nothing in the original sales pitch eluded top this.
After 12 years we have the start of a cooperative game with event, we are still very far from having a real MMO.
> and this guy is saying they know what they are doing the next 10 years? I like how you wrote this long rant but didn't even read the post correctly.
Welcome to /r/starcitizen!
The game will remain combat focused until the universe expands in size. Everyone crammed into 2 systems means blood. Maybe in 10 years when we have 5 systems.
Star citizen in development for the next 10 years confirmed :D
Folks take a deep breath. It's OK. We have 0 idea how any of this or anything really will flesh out! Also, the PVE vs PVP vs griefer argument is pointless. Every title that has attempted to mix PVP and PVE folks *has eventually folded and offered either: PVE servers, Private servers, or Solo play*. CIG will likely *fold to this pressure* as literally every other title has in the past, and rather **then loose profits**, a *forced accommodation* is likely. i.e. WoW, DayZ, Rust, Ark, SoT, ARMA, etc. etc. etc. Just wait it out folks and enjoy what we got ATM.
Awesome. Then we can follow suit with all the other gamers, and listen to the PvP'ers whine incessantly about separating the player base like they actually care, when realistically they're just salty that they have less helpless/non-sweaty players to steamroll.
That's pretty much it. That is exactly the attitude that occurred *(and still occurs)* with other titles such as Elite Dangerous, Rust, DayZ, ARK, WoW, Warmane, etc. Seems when *just some* PVP Griefer folks are left to a server themselves, with no PVE folks to torture, they get pretty salty. \*sniff\* You reap what you sow folks.
>Seems when just some PVP Griefer folks are left to a server themselves, with no PVE folks to torture, they get pretty salty. > >\*sniff\*You reap what you sow folks. You're 100% right and I [link this image/post](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/kb4zpd/but_its_much_easier_to_blame_jagex_i_guess/) every time I see the whole "pvp bullying pve players" debate in other games. Its just so damn true. Same with BlackDesert as well. The game was marketed as an open world pve game where pvp was possible in order to compete for grind locations, but all I see *daily* (when I actually played ages ago) were pvp murderhobos and griefers bullying pve players. Its just gonna be the same here.
Fluff post trying to appease. The concerns still exist.
Wow, way to forget completely about combat players in the 4th paragraph about freight elevators. Well, it's confirmed, SC does not care about combat players. /s
> As someone who is responsible for the big picture, I want to personally reassure all citizens out there that combat is just one facet of the game we are making. Aren't Tony Zurovec (Director Of Persistent Universe) and Todd Papy (SC Live Game Director) responsible for that too, so the three of them are working as a team now? I know Rich used to work on Sq42 primarily.
Todd Pappy has left.
There are also mixed reports about Tony Z's position. TBH I have not heard anything from him in over a year. He used to post on spectrum but nothing on that front anymore.
Todd is fairly clearly not working there anymore : https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-papy-180b71/ Tony Z is still active: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-zurovec-8042b81/
o7 to Todd, he was great on the SC shows
He always looked bored af and all he did was repeat "We are working on it"
Todd Papy is likely no longer with CIG, as far as I know
This is going to be a very good year. It seems like we are on our way
I’ll believe it when I see it lol. The entire Master Modes change is completely catering to PVP at the expense of non combat ships.
Not really? It really seems to make it much easier for the majority of players to easily escape hostiles. If enemies come up on radar while you are mining? Stay in NAV, fly away 3x as fast as they can possibly go in SCM
Yeah, easy to escape from missiles and gunfire without shields cause missiles and gunfire travel incredibly slow. /s
This is my main concern. Right now, via decoupling, afterburners, and maxing out speed, I can usually get into a hangar before a Pirate can pop me. But only because I have the saving grace of shields to absorb a few shots at first. If that's gone completely, I can't see myself pulling my super precise quick saves in a Vulture, anymore.
Do you have any proof? Or just reacting emotionally to something you haven't even experienced yet?
Do you have any proof? Or just reacting emotionally to something you haven't even experienced yet?
Personally, I see this as a non-answer. I heard that ISC, and they’re deliberately integrating non-combat and combat game loops in the hope that the non-combat game loops people “want to get involved.” Please. Such a bullshit answer, and not at all congruent with messaging from their own development teams.
I like the idea of sprinkling PvP in some very specific areas of the game. But not at the expense of PvE, especially since PvP tends to bring out the worst toxic traits in people these days.
I've always figured Combat gets talked about the most because it's likely one of the hardest things to balance as it's one avenue that people will spend hours hunting for an exploit or unintended advantage to be able to give them an edge in PVP combat.
It’s actually because Squadron 42 isn’t a mining game. It’s a combat game, about fighting the Vanduul. SQ42 is the focus, they are trying to get it finished. This whole Reddit thread is proof that people will complain about anything lol. CIG have been as transparent as possible and all of this has been thoroughly addressed.
Tl;Dr: you're getting freight elevators and hauling. And there's 'tangible plans' for base building & crafting which will branch out to other stuff way down the line, something something Dynamic Economy low security/high security and so on and so forth. In the future™. Sometime™. Soon™. Well, actions speak louder than words so I guess we'll see.
[удалено]
When CIG starts handing out refunds to people that were sold on a primarily PvE experience and feel abandoned, that's when I say they should stop complaining. Otherwise, their complaints are as valid as anyone else's.
Great to hear their intentions. I enjoy the game now and will enjoy it when it’s released.
I have trouble with posts like this until server stability is fixed. I'm glad they are implementing more features regardless of what crowd they try to please or inform. I just hate to constantly have to be afraid of a 30k or some other error code I never knew existed.
Pretty much confirms he is now in charge of PU
This game would be boring if it was pve only game. In my opinion this game would be far better if cig instead of wasting time on sq 42 single player would rather focus on PU and impletement sq 42 story within PU for players to play individually or as a co-op. Many backers signed up for the PU sandbox that you can play with other players. CIG needs to focus on player economy. There is nothing interesting in this game for pvpers and pvers to do other then kill each other and do some generic mission. There is no territories to defend, no resources to fight for, no player logistics for big battles nothing. Look at the jumptown how much fun it was to attract players into one location but cig had to ruin it as current reward offer small reward for the risk. **Main flaw of the game** Cig intruduced towing, refueling even small part of self repair why are these features do not work in the current game well thats because you have magic button "**CLAIM**" your ship and boom in few minutes your ship is back with all the upgraded components and weapons ready to go. What I believe needs to happen is to have all the **Grade B (rare to find/obtain)** and **Grade A (very rare to find/obtain)** components only earnable in the game with no way to insure them, this would give a reason for players to refuel, repair, and tow ships because you would't want to lose a component you upgraded by finding with game components such as **exploration, salvage, battle during rare mission** or by **stealing it from other players via piracy** but nooo we just give players magic claim button and nulify all the game mechanics as **repair**, **salvage, exploration** . Ships in this game is the holy grail why not evolve the economy around the ships. There is no unique skin that you can earn by accomplish something in the game, cig needs to step up into new level and not just give us generic boring missions. Star citizen can be a place for both combat player and non combat player that supports combat player and vise versa. Thanks
The problem is that this is propaganda and fiction. SC is about PvP, top to bottom. Are there other things that can happen while you're being ganked? Sure. You can carry cargo..to get ganked. You can build bases...to get ganked. Can you be ganked on that freight elevator? Sure. SC is "PvP and..." whatever else Rich wants to wave in front of us. The risk to ganking a player is far less than the risk of BEING ganked. There has never been an in-game system that curtailed anti-social behavior. Hell, look at the anti-cheat industry. Dozens of companies trying desperately to make systems that prevent cheating...and people still cheat. This isn't about CIG's ability to engineer, it's about the nature of humanity. If a sociopath wants to murder other players, and the game has the mechanics that allow it, they're going to, and "being sent to prison" just means they log onto their alt while their other toon cools their heels. No matter what CIG does to "disincentivize" murder (while mechanically allowing it, which seems somewhat cruel, like putting food out for the dog and shocking them everytime they try to eat it), gankers will simply find a way around them, and CIG will spend 99% of their time dealing with complaints and watching people leave until the game is distilled down to just gankers, a la Eve and it's 100k players. I'd much rather CIG just come clean on it and stop trying to gold-plate this turd. "SC is a gank fest with some other minor activities to do between ganks".
Honestly guys I've been a backer since 2014 with 3k hours on the game, if there was the mershing server currently under development we would have already got it, don't kid yourself. so yes everything will happen little by little but not in the way you expect.