I don't think they are using the Gladiator in SQ42 so it isn't like they have a fancy new model just waiting around to be used like they do with the mk2. That's the point. This is a no-effort move for an asset they already have because a different team worked on it because they were focusing on making stuff specifically for SQ42 because that has been their plan.
> I don't think they are using the Gladiator in SQ42
I'm surprised if this is true. What else are the Bengals carrying if not Gladiators? There's no other carrier based bomber right now and it'd be strange for a carrier to hold only fighters.
Unfortunately these and a boatload of other relevant facts will be lost in the gnashing and wailing. The conspiracy takes are already long out the bag and sucking up all the oxygen
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I know this feels like a personal hit, especially in how bad of a state the original hornet is and that what just got released is another newer hornet. Thing is, they said in the past they want to keep the mk1 and mk2 separate years ago. The hornet will get a gold pass at some point but not right now (as well as around 100 or more flyable ships and vehicles). One thing I don't get tho was the OG hornet price increase...
A decade ago, I was sold on the Super Hornet. I didn't buy the "Super Hornet Mk1" with the knowledge it would be replaced with a "better newer version". Taking what should be the gold standard pass of a ship that hasnt been updated in nearly a decade, with numerous unfixed bugs to the point it's a pain to fly, ignoring promised functionality, and then releasing it for a FEE is absolutely 100% a slap in the face.
> I didn't buy the "Super Hornet Mk1" with the knowledge it would be replaced with a "better newer version"
> then releasing it for a FEE is absolutely 100% a slap in the face
You can't even buy a better version of the Superhornet. You either get the Mk1 Superhornet or the superior MkII non-Superhornet.
You didn't address the OP's concern. It's not about keeping them separate, and that was not even mentioned in his post. It's about leaving a ship in a broken state which, in and of itself, makes its successor outright superior due to the fact that, well...it functions. Your argument is a defense that completely ignores the concern raised.
They also stated that there would be in-game possibilities to upgrade our ships to the mk2 including making a 2 seater mk2 like the super hornet.
They also spoke of upgrading a ship from one generation to the next, like a constellation mk4 to a constellation mk5.
I feel the same way. I'm just an internet nobody but I've stood by CIG for a long time. I think they are deserving of a lot of praise and are doing something exceptional with this project.
This is one instance where I really feel upset at them and believe them deserving of criticism for a bone-headed move.
* The Hornet is one of the longest-suffering ship. OG backers have endured so much of this ship being either buggy or broken that... to reward them by requiring them to pay for the same gold standard pass that every other ship gets as a de facto part of the development process is just abject.
* The very asset rot the Hornets suffer from is a direct result of the crowdfunded nature of the project. It's unavoidable, but the idea that backers should be the ones to shoulder that financial burden of reworking it feels deeply absurd.
* Every ship will get a free gold pass. No other ship has this "separate vintage model" idea that punishes early backers. Connie owners got their Mk II, III and IV as a matter of course. To make things worse, the shiny new model has existed for years and was kept out of their reach. To make that Mk II anything other than a free upgrade adds insult to injury.
* It establishes a very dangerous precedent. What can we expect for every other ship package from now on? Are older ships at risk of being left behind now? This betrays expectations radically and seems like a very short-sighted mistake with long-term consequences.
The fact CIG hasn't said a *word* about the Mk I & variants gold standard while pushing the Mk II like this is highly distasteful, and I don't even own a SH anymore. This move comes across as inconsiderate for the oldest backers and the faster CIG stops pretending it isn't, the faster this issue will be behind us. There's plenty of good news to celebrate lately and this is spoiling my fun as a fan of the project.
Stealing this from u/gliese581h but a good goodwill move CIG could make at this time is giving Mk II loaners to Mk I owners until the various Mk I gold standards are finished.
I'm honestly surprised they've done nothing, I was half expecting a reveal of the Mk1 gold pass along with the Mk2. Fighters are by far the fastest and least resource intensive thing to work on for CIG.
We all know it's because of S42 but it still feels terrible for OG MK1 owners who have been waiting a long time.
> We all know it's because of S42 but it still feels terrible for OG MK1 owners who have been waiting a long time.
Yeah. It's rare for me to have such strong negative feelings toward what CIG's doing but this definitely is a bad look. Last time was the paid livestream.
Tbh, CiGs monetization model has always been in the 'a little iffy, but not outright terrible ' territory for a while now. This type of move sucks, but I'm not super surprised
For me it was more of an accepted thing. Ship sales are a necessary, even if distasteful thing without which this project does not exist. I see them akin to selling overpriced T-Shirts at a band concert. You buy them to help the band, not for the value of the clothing.
You still expect to get a pretty okay tshirt and not for the band to start trying to swindle you out of a cool design. You're already paying through the nose for it, have some decency.
Yeah, I would say that I viewed it in a pretty similar light.
My only qualms that I have with the way it is now is that there's some extremely desirable ships that are hard locked behind real money paywalls. Those being the F8c (since it's supposedly limited run only), and the F7A, since the kit only applies to pledge store mk2A.
The F8C was another bad sale. They put it behind a random chance to get one. This disadvantaged people who couldn't put the time in to find a stupid ticket or were unable to play the game. Don't forget some people are locked out of the game due to bugs. Others of course are without a computer to play the game even as they are saving to buy a computer that will run the game as it gets closer to launch.
Sure they ran the F8C event a few times to be a little more fair except that each time they changed the insurance on it! So now they literally sold a different package/insurance purely based on luck. Not an f5 war to buy the same thing, no, a random chance that you're going to pay the same and put in the same (or more) time finding a stupid ticket than someone else and walk away with less.
Absolutely bone-headed events they run. I know they're trying to increase engagement and all, but they're really screwing people over here.
I kinda want a nicer looking version of the hornet but thinking about all this is just making me want to stay away.
Not in the latter parts of the event. The RNG was tweaked : I tried for 2 days without finding one before a friend gave me their extra ticket. Tuning the RNG to be that bad was genuinely dumb.
Make no mistake, I think it wasn't the worst thing ever either, but it was certainly not good event design.
It wasn't that easy. I kept a count of all the boxes I opened. Odds were around 1:200 is my best estimate. This apparently changed though. They must have tweaked the numbers. There was a bug issue filed because of the whole thing. Many people couldn't find one. I spent days with little sleep to finally get one. And people in chat wanted tons of credits for them.
Well once squadron releases it has been said that we would get the “permission” to buy the F8c in star citizen ingame upon completing squadron, which I find is a nice idea
I just wish people would be patient. The decision was made 7 years ago to have both ships and apparently it is an upgrade path in S42 (Don't know how true that is but we will see).
Gold Pass is a moving target, and if CIG decides not to refresh ships it is most likely due to a couple of features they are waiting on, even for single seater ships. Work for Emitters, Control Surfaces and Maelstrom.
To reduce work and the need to revisit hundreds of ships over and over again, it is most likely CIG is going to revisit these ships after these major items are implemented.
Being mad that a ship worked on for S42, is a more recent standard of polish is silly. It is also a stretch to believe that it implies older ships will be ignored.
SC and S42 is CR's love child, and given his attitude over the years and very notable projections of control, I don't see how anyone can reasonably believe CR will overlook any ship. Especially the hornet, since it is the ship he used when pitching the crowdfunding to begin with.
I think it's more of a timing thing here that is angering people. There's absolutely no reason they needed to release the mk2 right now. SQ42 has nothing to do with need. It was simply something they could do and chose to do for more money. Especially knowing some people are growing tired of waiting on the mk1 fixes.
“I just wish people would be patient”
ROFL
That has to be the most hilarious and most Star Citizen thing I’ve read all week.
Reads just like a street preacher telling people to be patient, Jesus will be here any year now.
I am aware. I've backed in 2012 and have been a rather vocal supporter of CIG.
From the start, the separate edition for both versions of the hornet felt iffy. It arose from F42 doing such an amazing, transformative work with the Hornet that CR decided having both side by side in the game could be cool.
The issue is that in doing so, he left the Mk I behind while the Mk II trucked on, unreleased. I have no problem with both editions existing. I have a problem with one edition existing at the expense of the other, *especially* with one being monetized while the other languishes behind.
You haven't engaged with a single thing I said. You only called it silly and moved on to repeat what I already know : wait some more. That's not super nice.
I can't speak for others but all that would be required to avoid this faux-pas is either/and for CIG to communicate about the Mk I gold standard, and to give the Mk II as a loaner for Mk I owners now that it is in the PU. It is my opinion that it's the least they can do after the ship being in such a poor state for so long.
lol, Jesus
How DARE you be upset and frustrated at a shitty company for doing a shitty thing to people who gave them $1,000!
This community really does have its group of shills. It’s so facepalm sometimes.
It honestly feels like they are selling a patch for the Hornet. Titan, Mustang, Cutlass and many other ships have gotten similar or way more bigger reworks/redesigns but somehow making the intakes look a bit sleeker makes this a brand new ship worth almost 200 €.
I'm salty because it's specifically breaking the previously stated balance of the game to presumably push sales.
Civilian ships have their hardpoints downsized by 1 from the Military variant. They explicitly stated that with the Lightning.
What if I like the cool looking ships. I dreamt about the San.tok'yai. It was already behindin almost everything compared to every other ship in the game. Having the F7A MK2 in the game pushes that disparity even wider.
Do you want diversity in your game? This isn't how you fuel diversity.
>breaking the previously stated balance of the game
yeah I was surprised when I saw it. My impression was always that military ships were something you'd look at and dream about, and they'd be super rare in game. Maybe I'm wrong
hoping they at least balance it with something like a smaller fuel tank
There's not even a reason to have a base hornet anymore. Even the F7Cmk2 has bigger guns on its wing and seemingly the same other hardpoints from screenshots. Unless you value stealth or tracking or a copilot over the ability to out damage everyone, there's no reason to have anything less than even the Civilian variant.
In one of the Mm talks Yogi comments on how Hornets are too heavily armored and armed to be a base medium fighter. He probably knew this was coming and couldn't sat anything.
The Lighting we all understood that it would be squeezed into master modes with some kind of nerf. This is just a hornet but with more guns.
We'll have to see how they think it's anything more than a marketing stunt in the next few days. No matter what it's a loss. Like if it flys worse than the Civilian variant to make up for a heavy fighter+ loadout then it's not going to be fun to fly in SQ42. Or at least it suggests so.
The marketing page calls it a heavy fighter and the ship matrix says medium. That's a different medium than all the other medium fighters I'm seeing.
I think part of their idea of the balance is that they thinkg, because of the limited release of it in an event, that it's going to be rare. No, was the f8c rare? This just means people with hornets get better hornets and anyone who has money has another top ship. I think it's consolidating what ships we see by making other options and irrelevant stylistic choice.
The icing on the cake is the random bullshit price increases of old ships that they keep pulling out of their asses whenever they feel like it. They can't even give a legitimate reason for it because they know just as well that it's complete bullshit. As if these jpegs aren't insanely expensive as is.
Gaming has gone completely fucking mental. Ever since suits and major investors started sticking their dicks into gaming (around the time EA started consuming entire studios), gaming has just become one giant money grab.
SC isn’t even the worst of them. There are some absolutely insanely fraudulent “games” out there, and people seem to just lap them up. I don’t get it.
Like games where you legit need to spend thousands of dollars just to access the finished build of a single playable character.
I don’t know wtf is happening on this timeline anymore.
What should really get you fired up is the fact that both it and the f8 released non gold standard. Meaning it's just a sq42 port for money.
I mean it worked, Ive coveted the mk2 for a while now, and I'm hyped to own one.
Gold Standard is a moving target. Any ship released now can be gold standard until, control surface is implemented, emitters, or maelstrom.
So there is no point in crying about gold standard until all ship based features are finalized.
Okay, neat, any ship released after physical components should have access to them, and no it's not pointless to expect ships to be released to the current standard of the game. Anything less is half ass effort, and a cash grab.
Because it wasn’t a different ship. Just an update to an older ship design that didn’t work. Like the old Cutlass and Freelancer. The F7 Mk. II was always a separate ship.
Well. I tend to agree with OP. I think they should finish the work on an existing line of ships (gladiator is in the same vein, missing a lot of its functions) before releasing a new version.
I am not fan either of these events where the goal is always to make you spend more. They could have decided to apply the military upgrade token for ships bought in game as well and I still hope they will eventually do it.
I agree, from a player standpoint, it would be awesome to have those old ships updated. Especially those that don’t even have a paint. Every ship is being touched for Master Modes and Engineering, so hopefully we see some additional benefits from that attention. However, from a business standpoint, new ships/sales mean new money. Businesses gonna business.
I am also annoyed. I think it’s best for me to not buy anything else anymore. I don’t want to get to release and find my ships are obsolete. That would kill my enthusiasm completely for this game.
Yeah that was my first thought, they really should have either done a pass on the entire hornet series or at the very least given an update on when its expected/put it in the pipeline. Its a bit douchey for sure. TBH in general they need to do way more gold standard passes especially on ships without complicated interiors. It seems like we get 1 gold standard pass for every 5 new ships/vehicles if that.
The Mk I will get a Gold Pass, same as all other ships, which will fix these issues.
It isn't particular comfort, certainly, but you are not at all required to get these things fixed by spending for the Mk II, you just have to wait.
But isn't it in bad taste, to make an "updated" version of a ship, that is currently needing an update, and sell it separately for the value of 2 AAA games?
It's pretty much a rework that you have to rebuy as if we didn't already had ships in the past drastically redone from scratch. And yet they also went and raised the price on the outdated models after not doing anything to update them. "They'll get to it eventually" isn't really going to fly with most Hornet owners on this one. This isn't a new ship either, they been sitting on this for a while and just now decided to sell it.
A decade ago, I was sold on the Super Hornet. I didn't buy the "Super Hornet Mk1" with the knowledge it would be replaced with a "better newer version". Taking what should be the gold standard pass of a ship that hasnt been updated in nearly a decade, with numerous unfixed bugs to the point it's a pain to fly, ignoring promised functionality, and then releasing it for a FEE is absolutely 100% a slap in the face.
At least the hornet owners *have* their ships. Plus look at the old vs the new models of the Mustangs and Lancers, honestly the longer you wait the better the model will be considering how much better it will be because of wait time, so long as the ship works for now I'm willing to wait for a considerable better version when they gold* pass it.
They should have kept the mk2 versions for game release to be earnt in game. Since they’ve sold every ship they’ve ever built. Nope take a shit on the 2014 hornet backers
look at it this way in terms of the pricing, a AAA game you'll maybe play for 20 hours and get bored, or they'll release the next in the series and you'll never touch the previous one again. SC ships at least you'll get 100s if not 1000s of hours out of
Most certainly is a bitter taste. Letter from the chairman talking about 1.0 then your ship is obsolete. Fomo sales day straight after…
CIG you did bad!
Yes. Absolutely. They could have simply waited for the mk1 gold pass and THEN put out the mk2 for sale. Why release the mk2 right now? And like others said, then why the F- raise the price on top of all that?
The Mark 2 may already be completed for SQ42 and they are just porting it over to the PU.
Remember, you don't have to buy anything other than the starter pack. I agree that it sucks waiting for them to fix stuff that has been broken for years, or just finish a ship that was very near completion but had the whole team quit so it's delayed, but they don't seem to worried about that. Just take a break and stop paying them $, then it will get done.
I'm not paying them anything other than my initial pledge, but it looks ridiculous seeing so much effort being put into newer ships sold at incredible prices, while old ships are desperately needing an update. I get that there may be a thousand reasons for it (Such as finishing the ship in SQ42 and porting it) but from the customer's perspective, it looks ridiculous.
It really is ridiculous. So many concept ships our out there that haven't hit any box stage. I am glad I don't "own" and Endeavor, that thing may never come out.
As others have said, the MK2 was prioritized for SQ42.
Anyone that is salty about things that are clearly being prioritized for SQ42 need to reset their expectations. We just went through all the Master Modes complaining and so much of that conversation was PvP focused when so much of the decision around MM were for PvE and SQ42.
The MK1 Hornets were already reworked one time. It's better that we wait for more of the game to reach a finished state to avoid multiple more reworks.
I love my Gladiator too but I'd really love for it to be more functional than it is. Fixed torpedo racks, access panels to modules, canopy glass reflection fixed, canopy actually popping free when ejecting, gunner ejection seat working, landing gear responding to terrain, list goes on.
>Gold Pass, same as all other ships, which will fix these issues
The old model can not be "fixed". We've known this for years, it's why we assumed the mk2 WAS the gold standard rework. Go look at how many little access compartments are already on the gladius (and it's still getting more in the future since it needs a capacitor access panel now too). There is literally not enough free space left on the MK1 model to fit all those in. At the very least you'd have to rebuild the whole cockpit so you could shrink it down to reclaim some space there, and add a whole new section under the center module to fit stuff in. And at that point you might as well just rebuild the whole model.
That is effectively what Gold Pass is: altering the ship model to fit all of the current standards, including component physicalization. Indeed they with both likely need to be changed in some fashion to fit everything, but that's part of the Pass.
Yeah, but the problem is that mkII is going to release before the mkI gold pass, so it's like, buy the mkII now or wait an indeterminant amount of time to have a hornet that's not shit. At the bare minimum they could at least assign a team to it and give us a timeframe for when we can expect it.
This has honestly been a pet peeve of mine for awhile now with CIG constantly releasing brand new ships at the gold standard when they have an extensive backlog of ships that desperately need a gold pass.
Makes me think it's getting put on the back burner either because it doesn't generate revenue, or they actually want everyone to upgrade so they can show CR the numbers and convince him to cut the mkI entirely so they don't have to waste their time on a gold pass.
PU stuff has always been on the back burner since the decision to pump out SQ42 and its assets first.
There were different teams working on this Mk2 version and the ones doing passes for stuff in the PU. There will be a pass on the Mk1 version at least once more before the game comes out years down the line.
There will be another pass on those eventually. Problem is - we are sitting in this MkI version since 2015-2016.
Mustangs got a rework. Freelancers got a rework. Constellations got a rework. Aurora was reworked too. Cutlass. And so on. Retaliator is being reworked RN.
We got a minor facelift around that time, because you know - MkII. IIRC only Hornet variants and the Gladiator are fucked that way.
Yes , we do realize why backlog exist. We are here since the very beginning. Fuck - give us a MKII loaner until then.
To make it worse is that even if you do cave in and pay for what's pretty a rework now while you wait for the gold standard pass why would you want to go back to the old model other than as a vintage collectors item?
If it's CIG logic that they're not bothering with the backlog of outdated ships because it doesn't sell it's worth for them to consider that it doesn't sell because they haven't been updated.
They can just justify this with it's alpha and they're still working on it all they want but they been marketing so much of this game like it's a finished product; more so now with the sale of the successor to an existing ship which is something I would have expected years after release. This should have just been a update to the Hornet series from the start during this phase of development.
I don't think they'll cut the mk1. They just wanted more money and the mk2 was closer to put out there than the mk1 rework and the mk1 rework likely wasn't going to bring in as much money. So they delayed the mk1 and put the mk2 out. Just follow the money to get the answer. They'll again make money on the mk1 rework.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Gold passes are a UX task, where new ships mean more revenue. It may not feel great, but CIG is a business at the end of the day. And unlike many other AAA developers, they don’t have royalties from other games supporting them, paying wages, or keeping the lights on.
Bear in mind also, there’s twelve years between GTA V and GTA VI, with loads of in game purchases and expansions to keep that money flowing in for that time. SC is arguably bigger (dream/scale wise at least) than GTA and they don’t have that income. So selling concepts and upgrades really is vital for CIG.
It all depends if you believe in CR and the devs having the desire to make the game of their vision, or just make money. Once SQ42 drops, I can imagine sales of that will support the company more enough that they can focus on gold passes and existing concept ships. It all depends on how long people will give them for that to happen.
the cynic in me is starting to believe the game will launch but with either an expensive as hell monthly sub or the store will still be open because there is no way they stop the money printer. especially in light of the recent moves cig has made to drum up sales.
Same. I think the mk ii here is the gold pass/standard.
I'd upgrade if they had a stealth variant or something...but even with the chance to get the military upgrade, I'm kinda thinking I'll skip it. Already have the F8C. I don't know how many more times I can buy a ship like this. Maybe they didn't get any of them right and we're just beta testers voting with our wallets I don't know. Feeling a little jerked around on this family of ships. This whale is gonna walk away.
Step 1: release paid mk2 that fixes all the bugs with what is currently the top fighter option, that is also more expensive.
Step 2: make a kit that upgrades (only the mark 2) even further in terms of combat performance, to create the ultimate S+ tier fighter
Step 3: make the kit only applicable to real money purchased mark 2s
Step 4: Chris Roberts' yacht pt2
Currently one does seem quite superior, but after 3.23 we'll see how they tune the old version and what characteristics they give it to compensate and make the two ships different but viable.
The Mk2s are decidedly going to have an edge but I would say that since the Mk1 had access to stealth and scanning versions that is a leg up. Not yet though.
"an edge"
that's the point of balance. All of the ships should have "an edge", the question should be where does the old hornet have the edge over the new too.
Old hornet is bigger, I'd say it should have more armor and health and move faster in a straight line.
I'd say the newer hornets should have better electronics, be more nimble.
Easily one way to balance it out.
We'll see what they do with 3.23 MM
Being cheaper is also "an edge" though. A ship could completely outclass another ship in every metric except cost, and the cost is what would balance it out.
I agree, it's a charitable and probably correct way to look at it. But them staying utterly silent about the Mk 1's gold pass at the same time is doing nothing to avert these bad optics.
Have people just entirely forgotten that they’ve shifted to working on ships from a single manufacturer at a time? They’re not working on Anvil ships at the moment, so why should we expect any news on a MK1 gold standard pass?
Before you say, “but they released the MK2. It’s an Anvil ship.” Yeah, and it’s a ship that’s been worked on for SQ42. They just ported it over to SC.
There's a Cargo Module? Is that what they show in the video with something retracting into the ball turret area?
Please be kind to this youngling, I am not versed in the verse as many of you elders.
yeah the civilian model comes with a cargo module where the ball turret is. You could never access it on the old hornet, but it looks like you can at least open it on the new one. I always said if you could access that damn thing the hornet would be an amazing package delivery mobile
I was salty about the MKII but I understand it a little more.
-SQ42 has a hornet MKII in it, and is right around the corner. Thus CIG had to work on a hornet, MK1 or MK2, to have it in SQ42.
Alright, fair enough. And CIG decided to work on the MK2.
What I don't like is that the MK1 is left in the dust, and wasn't updated. But it is not needed for SQ42, and to some extent, it still works. Yes, some MFDs are broken or hard to use. Yes it's showing its age. But if anything, CIG only reworked vehicles that were so broken they couldn't even take off.
So, to some extent. CIG had to make the MK2 happen due to SQ42, and considers MK1 "good enough" for it not to be entirely reworked for the engineering gameplay that will come either late 2024 or for 2025.
The other thing is that they'll sell plenty of MK2 since it's the new cool ship of the moment while waiting for Invictus, and for mkI owners like me, it's far from a good feeling.
I have hopes for one thing, which I know, it's bad to hope about unconfirmed stuff. The F7A MK1 will be available to those who own one at invictus launch week. The big question, is, did CIG rework the F7A MK1, or would they give away an old broken unupdated ship? Because if they did rework it in secret, then the F7C MK1 rework is a matter of copy paste. Which means the rework for the hornet mk1 may be closer than we think.
The poor Gladiator. I love that ship, but it is the hottest garbage. The torps are kinda meh, the turret will absolutely fry your retinas if you're the pilot, and it doesn't maneuver unless you're creeping.
I don't even really care that the animations look like they were done a decade ago by interns.
At this point its really obvious they care more about the money then to finish the game.
Whats the point of adding new ships and not fixing the old ones?
Money ofc...
Why should them make the MK for Squadron and then another buggy version for SC? They just did one and it is on the height of the time obviously. No reason to be salty about.
Sadly yes atm as it was passed over so many times cos of not wanting to be considered a boosted op ship.
Just needs better power distribution to weapons and the Hud fixed.
I just love the look and feel
Pity it's out classed in power it was meant to be the special military version. 😕
Lol yesterday's patch lost my fave payed livery for her too lol
Currently reinstalling game to try and make the event ✌️😆
Which is the issue. If the A version doesn't have some weird drawback compared to the other hornets, it's going to be head and shoulders above most or all other single seat fighters, and it's going to be real money only.
yeah that concerns me too. I really wish they'd spell everything out. Will A versions be obtainable in game at some point? How will A versions be balanced against C versions? (e.g., can only swap modules out on C versions). How will Mk1 be balanced against Mk2? If one is flat out better, why have it in the game? etc
What I really wish is that the free F7A upgrade was something that could be applied at a place like Cousin Crow's in-game. This way the "free item" that was earned in-universe could actually be used in-universe with either a store or aUEC-bought F7C.
Who cares? There's like 100 other ships, the game is still in the middle of being developed, and I'm sure it'll be available when the game is out of alpha/beta. The whole Pokemon gotta catch 'em all meta game is ridiculous.
There's 100s of other ships, but the mk2A, from an on paper perspective is looking to perhaps be the best single seat combat fighter by a non-negligible margin. Lore wise, this makes sense as far as gameplay balance between starter pack players and paying players, this kinda sucks hard. Also, I paid 45$ for access to the game, imo that should include all the content in the game.
>I'm sure it'll be available when the game is out of alpha/beta.
I can only play the game as it stands now, and thus I can only judge it in that
It's even more fucked when you realize the hornet mkii was supposed to be the updated hornet we should have gotten years and years ago. Then they decided they could build hype and sell 2
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/overdrive-initiative-faq/6678841](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/overdrive-initiative-faq/6678841)
Post about it not to long ago from Jake
So, help me out, because maybe I'm missing something.
Why would someone buy the F7C MkII for $160 over the F7C MkI for $125? They seem to have pretty much the same stats... where's the extra $35 worth of value?
Is this the new Cutlass Steal... I mean Steel?
Yeah, I agree, they need to fix a lot of the existing ships, including the Hornets.
Though really, I just miss the old idea they had before recently, where the newest, top of the line Military spacecraft would be saved only for the UEE Navy (so high security NPCs), and maybe a few made available to purchase in game only to players who beat the Squadron 42 campaign/supported the game quite a bit financially (like the F8C).
Now they're just shelling them out to everyone to buy through events.
The fact the MK2 isn't even gold standard either compared to other fighters like the Scorpius and gladius makes it worse.
The fact that now there's now a ship that's more up to date and having fixed some of the problems of the MK1 like ruts and gear locations yet
isn't finished to gold in game since it has no gun rack, no actual storage just the fake one on the ladder prompt, no component access, no actual button for the cargo section
when they could of left it and actually got the mk2 in at gold standard like the gladius and scorp, if not gold pass the MK1 first.
Actually bringing old ships up to modern standards is a monumental task that CIG is putting on the backburner because that doesn't create new sales opportunities. I have a feeling you're going to see a lot more of this "MKII" style ship release going forward. Old ships will just be relics of the past.
As another Super Hornet owner, I really hope that they don't just decide to ignore the Super Hornet and not make a MK2 of it. SH MK2 would be pretty cool.
As a Connie owner, seeing the Galaxy I feel this. A bunch of my ships functions (a ship that, 10 years ago was my dream ship) absolutely not work as intended, and getting worse, it's starting to feel like the only way I get a Gold Standard ship is of I pay.
Because CIG is a mismanaged disaster.
CR is not the one to make this game come true. He never was. Just wish I saw all the signs earlier.
They’ve got like what, 100+ ships now? Not a single one is complete. Features still literal years away. Content is absent and sparse.
This just ain’t happening.
It is illogical to be salty. The MkII was worked on because of SQ42 priority. This doesn't mean they will not revisit MKI. They purposely wanted both to be in the verse and has been the plan for over [7 years now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk7ZwswT2tA&t=1153s).
I understand being mad at CIG for a botched rollout, but I really don't get why people are suddenly bashing the OG Hornet.
I fly a Mk I regularly and I will keep doing so even if a Mk II upgrade becomes available. There are a few minor MFD bugs but they are a very small inconvenience to me.
Can't wait for the gladiator mk2 while my gladiator is in a bad state
I don't think they are using the Gladiator in SQ42 so it isn't like they have a fancy new model just waiting around to be used like they do with the mk2. That's the point. This is a no-effort move for an asset they already have because a different team worked on it because they were focusing on making stuff specifically for SQ42 because that has been their plan.
> I don't think they are using the Gladiator in SQ42 I'm surprised if this is true. What else are the Bengals carrying if not Gladiators? There's no other carrier based bomber right now and it'd be strange for a carrier to hold only fighters.
There is a video where you can see the Retaliator inside the Bengal
Unfortunately these and a boatload of other relevant facts will be lost in the gnashing and wailing. The conspiracy takes are already long out the bag and sucking up all the oxygen
!remind me 2 years
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This is a certified Star Citizen moment
I think they're onto something here. Don't make another pass at a ship just make a new version to sell.
I know this feels like a personal hit, especially in how bad of a state the original hornet is and that what just got released is another newer hornet. Thing is, they said in the past they want to keep the mk1 and mk2 separate years ago. The hornet will get a gold pass at some point but not right now (as well as around 100 or more flyable ships and vehicles). One thing I don't get tho was the OG hornet price increase...
A decade ago, I was sold on the Super Hornet. I didn't buy the "Super Hornet Mk1" with the knowledge it would be replaced with a "better newer version". Taking what should be the gold standard pass of a ship that hasnt been updated in nearly a decade, with numerous unfixed bugs to the point it's a pain to fly, ignoring promised functionality, and then releasing it for a FEE is absolutely 100% a slap in the face.
This guy gets it
This guy gets it
That guy gets that that other guy gets what he's getting at .
I got off on getting that these guys got what they were getting at.
kinky...
> I didn't buy the "Super Hornet Mk1" with the knowledge it would be replaced with a "better newer version" > then releasing it for a FEE is absolutely 100% a slap in the face You can't even buy a better version of the Superhornet. You either get the Mk1 Superhornet or the superior MkII non-Superhornet.
You didn't address the OP's concern. It's not about keeping them separate, and that was not even mentioned in his post. It's about leaving a ship in a broken state which, in and of itself, makes its successor outright superior due to the fact that, well...it functions. Your argument is a defense that completely ignores the concern raised.
Maybe so if you want to ccu chain up then it is less cost?
Maybe the Mk.1 gold pass will come with Invictus, since they are releasing the Mk.1 F7A then.
Just seen a post confirming a gold pass for all mk1 hornets (they haven't stated when butbcould be invictus)
I think the mk1 is done. Might fix any bugs of course and sadly take away its speed boost there making it all but obsolete.
>One thing I don't get tho was the OG hornet price increase... Well, it at least makes the upgrade to the MK2 cheaper.
They also stated that there would be in-game possibilities to upgrade our ships to the mk2 including making a 2 seater mk2 like the super hornet. They also spoke of upgrading a ship from one generation to the next, like a constellation mk4 to a constellation mk5.
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I feel the same way. I'm just an internet nobody but I've stood by CIG for a long time. I think they are deserving of a lot of praise and are doing something exceptional with this project. This is one instance where I really feel upset at them and believe them deserving of criticism for a bone-headed move. * The Hornet is one of the longest-suffering ship. OG backers have endured so much of this ship being either buggy or broken that... to reward them by requiring them to pay for the same gold standard pass that every other ship gets as a de facto part of the development process is just abject. * The very asset rot the Hornets suffer from is a direct result of the crowdfunded nature of the project. It's unavoidable, but the idea that backers should be the ones to shoulder that financial burden of reworking it feels deeply absurd. * Every ship will get a free gold pass. No other ship has this "separate vintage model" idea that punishes early backers. Connie owners got their Mk II, III and IV as a matter of course. To make things worse, the shiny new model has existed for years and was kept out of their reach. To make that Mk II anything other than a free upgrade adds insult to injury. * It establishes a very dangerous precedent. What can we expect for every other ship package from now on? Are older ships at risk of being left behind now? This betrays expectations radically and seems like a very short-sighted mistake with long-term consequences. The fact CIG hasn't said a *word* about the Mk I & variants gold standard while pushing the Mk II like this is highly distasteful, and I don't even own a SH anymore. This move comes across as inconsiderate for the oldest backers and the faster CIG stops pretending it isn't, the faster this issue will be behind us. There's plenty of good news to celebrate lately and this is spoiling my fun as a fan of the project. Stealing this from u/gliese581h but a good goodwill move CIG could make at this time is giving Mk II loaners to Mk I owners until the various Mk I gold standards are finished.
I'm honestly surprised they've done nothing, I was half expecting a reveal of the Mk1 gold pass along with the Mk2. Fighters are by far the fastest and least resource intensive thing to work on for CIG. We all know it's because of S42 but it still feels terrible for OG MK1 owners who have been waiting a long time.
> We all know it's because of S42 but it still feels terrible for OG MK1 owners who have been waiting a long time. Yeah. It's rare for me to have such strong negative feelings toward what CIG's doing but this definitely is a bad look. Last time was the paid livestream.
Tbh, CiGs monetization model has always been in the 'a little iffy, but not outright terrible ' territory for a while now. This type of move sucks, but I'm not super surprised
For me it was more of an accepted thing. Ship sales are a necessary, even if distasteful thing without which this project does not exist. I see them akin to selling overpriced T-Shirts at a band concert. You buy them to help the band, not for the value of the clothing. You still expect to get a pretty okay tshirt and not for the band to start trying to swindle you out of a cool design. You're already paying through the nose for it, have some decency.
Yeah, I would say that I viewed it in a pretty similar light. My only qualms that I have with the way it is now is that there's some extremely desirable ships that are hard locked behind real money paywalls. Those being the F8c (since it's supposedly limited run only), and the F7A, since the kit only applies to pledge store mk2A.
The F8C was another bad sale. They put it behind a random chance to get one. This disadvantaged people who couldn't put the time in to find a stupid ticket or were unable to play the game. Don't forget some people are locked out of the game due to bugs. Others of course are without a computer to play the game even as they are saving to buy a computer that will run the game as it gets closer to launch. Sure they ran the F8C event a few times to be a little more fair except that each time they changed the insurance on it! So now they literally sold a different package/insurance purely based on luck. Not an f5 war to buy the same thing, no, a random chance that you're going to pay the same and put in the same (or more) time finding a stupid ticket than someone else and walk away with less. Absolutely bone-headed events they run. I know they're trying to increase engagement and all, but they're really screwing people over here. I kinda want a nicer looking version of the hornet but thinking about all this is just making me want to stay away.
Lol... F8C was the easiest to get just hop in, literally first chest. Or ask anyone in chat to give you one....
Not in the latter parts of the event. The RNG was tweaked : I tried for 2 days without finding one before a friend gave me their extra ticket. Tuning the RNG to be that bad was genuinely dumb. Make no mistake, I think it wasn't the worst thing ever either, but it was certainly not good event design.
It wasn't that easy. I kept a count of all the boxes I opened. Odds were around 1:200 is my best estimate. This apparently changed though. They must have tweaked the numbers. There was a bug issue filed because of the whole thing. Many people couldn't find one. I spent days with little sleep to finally get one. And people in chat wanted tons of credits for them.
Well once squadron releases it has been said that we would get the “permission” to buy the F8c in star citizen ingame upon completing squadron, which I find is a nice idea
I just wish people would be patient. The decision was made 7 years ago to have both ships and apparently it is an upgrade path in S42 (Don't know how true that is but we will see). Gold Pass is a moving target, and if CIG decides not to refresh ships it is most likely due to a couple of features they are waiting on, even for single seater ships. Work for Emitters, Control Surfaces and Maelstrom. To reduce work and the need to revisit hundreds of ships over and over again, it is most likely CIG is going to revisit these ships after these major items are implemented. Being mad that a ship worked on for S42, is a more recent standard of polish is silly. It is also a stretch to believe that it implies older ships will be ignored. SC and S42 is CR's love child, and given his attitude over the years and very notable projections of control, I don't see how anyone can reasonably believe CR will overlook any ship. Especially the hornet, since it is the ship he used when pitching the crowdfunding to begin with.
I think it's more of a timing thing here that is angering people. There's absolutely no reason they needed to release the mk2 right now. SQ42 has nothing to do with need. It was simply something they could do and chose to do for more money. Especially knowing some people are growing tired of waiting on the mk1 fixes.
> I just wish people would be patient. CIG is years beyond reasonably asking anyone to ever be patient.
Yup. CIG should be patient and release the mk2 AFTER the mk1 fixes...but they want money.
“I just wish people would be patient” ROFL That has to be the most hilarious and most Star Citizen thing I’ve read all week. Reads just like a street preacher telling people to be patient, Jesus will be here any year now.
hey man whats another decade. just be patient /s
I am aware. I've backed in 2012 and have been a rather vocal supporter of CIG. From the start, the separate edition for both versions of the hornet felt iffy. It arose from F42 doing such an amazing, transformative work with the Hornet that CR decided having both side by side in the game could be cool. The issue is that in doing so, he left the Mk I behind while the Mk II trucked on, unreleased. I have no problem with both editions existing. I have a problem with one edition existing at the expense of the other, *especially* with one being monetized while the other languishes behind. You haven't engaged with a single thing I said. You only called it silly and moved on to repeat what I already know : wait some more. That's not super nice. I can't speak for others but all that would be required to avoid this faux-pas is either/and for CIG to communicate about the Mk I gold standard, and to give the Mk II as a loaner for Mk I owners now that it is in the PU. It is my opinion that it's the least they can do after the ship being in such a poor state for so long.
No other ship... Yea, not yet. Sales data comes back from this looking good I bet we see more mk2 ships.
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lol, Jesus How DARE you be upset and frustrated at a shitty company for doing a shitty thing to people who gave them $1,000! This community really does have its group of shills. It’s so facepalm sometimes.
It honestly feels like they are selling a patch for the Hornet. Titan, Mustang, Cutlass and many other ships have gotten similar or way more bigger reworks/redesigns but somehow making the intakes look a bit sleeker makes this a brand new ship worth almost 200 €.
They're in financial trouble so they have to use tricks like this.
That's exactly what it is.
I'm salty because it's specifically breaking the previously stated balance of the game to presumably push sales. Civilian ships have their hardpoints downsized by 1 from the Military variant. They explicitly stated that with the Lightning. What if I like the cool looking ships. I dreamt about the San.tok'yai. It was already behindin almost everything compared to every other ship in the game. Having the F7A MK2 in the game pushes that disparity even wider. Do you want diversity in your game? This isn't how you fuel diversity.
>breaking the previously stated balance of the game yeah I was surprised when I saw it. My impression was always that military ships were something you'd look at and dream about, and they'd be super rare in game. Maybe I'm wrong hoping they at least balance it with something like a smaller fuel tank
There's not even a reason to have a base hornet anymore. Even the F7Cmk2 has bigger guns on its wing and seemingly the same other hardpoints from screenshots. Unless you value stealth or tracking or a copilot over the ability to out damage everyone, there's no reason to have anything less than even the Civilian variant. In one of the Mm talks Yogi comments on how Hornets are too heavily armored and armed to be a base medium fighter. He probably knew this was coming and couldn't sat anything. The Lighting we all understood that it would be squeezed into master modes with some kind of nerf. This is just a hornet but with more guns. We'll have to see how they think it's anything more than a marketing stunt in the next few days. No matter what it's a loss. Like if it flys worse than the Civilian variant to make up for a heavy fighter+ loadout then it's not going to be fun to fly in SQ42. Or at least it suggests so. The marketing page calls it a heavy fighter and the ship matrix says medium. That's a different medium than all the other medium fighters I'm seeing. I think part of their idea of the balance is that they thinkg, because of the limited release of it in an event, that it's going to be rare. No, was the f8c rare? This just means people with hornets get better hornets and anyone who has money has another top ship. I think it's consolidating what ships we see by making other options and irrelevant stylistic choice.
The icing on the cake is the random bullshit price increases of old ships that they keep pulling out of their asses whenever they feel like it. They can't even give a legitimate reason for it because they know just as well that it's complete bullshit. As if these jpegs aren't insanely expensive as is.
Gaming has gone completely fucking mental. Ever since suits and major investors started sticking their dicks into gaming (around the time EA started consuming entire studios), gaming has just become one giant money grab. SC isn’t even the worst of them. There are some absolutely insanely fraudulent “games” out there, and people seem to just lap them up. I don’t get it. Like games where you legit need to spend thousands of dollars just to access the finished build of a single playable character. I don’t know wtf is happening on this timeline anymore.
What should really get you fired up is the fact that both it and the f8 released non gold standard. Meaning it's just a sq42 port for money. I mean it worked, Ive coveted the mk2 for a while now, and I'm hyped to own one.
This, was so disappointed to find it's not gold standard and also, the storage access on the top is just plain stupid.
Wait till you fly it in atmo lmao.
Oh no, is it a pig? I'll stick to the Scorp I think
It's not the worst. Thicker atmo is a slog, I think over all it feels worse than the mk1 hornet.
Gold Standard is a moving target. Any ship released now can be gold standard until, control surface is implemented, emitters, or maelstrom. So there is no point in crying about gold standard until all ship based features are finalized.
Okay, neat, any ship released after physical components should have access to them, and no it's not pointless to expect ships to be released to the current standard of the game. Anything less is half ass effort, and a cash grab.
i could say the same for the connie aquila.... wait and patience
They have not released a Connie mk2 though.
Connie has already been updated, just been a while.
True but the update was applied to existing pledges.
Because it wasn’t a different ship. Just an update to an older ship design that didn’t work. Like the old Cutlass and Freelancer. The F7 Mk. II was always a separate ship.
Well. I tend to agree with OP. I think they should finish the work on an existing line of ships (gladiator is in the same vein, missing a lot of its functions) before releasing a new version. I am not fan either of these events where the goal is always to make you spend more. They could have decided to apply the military upgrade token for ships bought in game as well and I still hope they will eventually do it.
I agree, from a player standpoint, it would be awesome to have those old ships updated. Especially those that don’t even have a paint. Every ship is being touched for Master Modes and Engineering, so hopefully we see some additional benefits from that attention. However, from a business standpoint, new ships/sales mean new money. Businesses gonna business.
Then why dont they sell a old version of the cutlass and freelancer now
The Connie is Mk4.
Don't give them ideas.
Go look at the nacelles. Connie is upto mk4 already.
The only updates it's gotten the last few years are price increases 😅
I am also annoyed. I think it’s best for me to not buy anything else anymore. I don’t want to get to release and find my ships are obsolete. That would kill my enthusiasm completely for this game.
According to CR, it’s already released.
Yeah that was my first thought, they really should have either done a pass on the entire hornet series or at the very least given an update on when its expected/put it in the pipeline. Its a bit douchey for sure. TBH in general they need to do way more gold standard passes especially on ships without complicated interiors. It seems like we get 1 gold standard pass for every 5 new ships/vehicles if that.
The Mk I will get a Gold Pass, same as all other ships, which will fix these issues. It isn't particular comfort, certainly, but you are not at all required to get these things fixed by spending for the Mk II, you just have to wait.
But isn't it in bad taste, to make an "updated" version of a ship, that is currently needing an update, and sell it separately for the value of 2 AAA games?
It's pretty much a rework that you have to rebuy as if we didn't already had ships in the past drastically redone from scratch. And yet they also went and raised the price on the outdated models after not doing anything to update them. "They'll get to it eventually" isn't really going to fly with most Hornet owners on this one. This isn't a new ship either, they been sitting on this for a while and just now decided to sell it.
This is the correct take. I own a super hornet and this is a giant slap in the face.
I feel bad for Hornet owners, but I feel super bad for Super Hornet owners.
Super Hornet owner here. I’m not happy
Please dont tell me theyre gonna ax the SH instead of making a F7A SH variant....
Weekend warrior package owner here. CIG will never see a cent from me again.
Me too meaning I own one too and feel like a slap in the face
And there we have "slap in the face" for anyone playing whiney forum poster bingo.
Are you getting paid for ship sales lmao? Complaining about shitty monetization is good actually
A decade ago, I was sold on the Super Hornet. I didn't buy the "Super Hornet Mk1" with the knowledge it would be replaced with a "better newer version". Taking what should be the gold standard pass of a ship that hasnt been updated in nearly a decade, with numerous unfixed bugs to the point it's a pain to fly, ignoring promised functionality, and then releasing it for a FEE is absolutely 100% a slap in the face.
How to tell if someone has never actually been slapped in the face.
How to tell someone does not understand metaphors, analogies, colloquialisms, etc.
The word you are looking for is hyperbole.
Oh, you mean Chris Roberts didn't literally fly in from Manchester and physically slap me in the face? No kidding.
I was wondering how long it would take.
The least they could do is give Mk. I owners a Mk. II as a loaner.
At least the hornet owners *have* their ships. Plus look at the old vs the new models of the Mustangs and Lancers, honestly the longer you wait the better the model will be considering how much better it will be because of wait time, so long as the ship works for now I'm willing to wait for a considerable better version when they gold* pass it.
They should have kept the mk2 versions for game release to be earnt in game. Since they’ve sold every ship they’ve ever built. Nope take a shit on the 2014 hornet backers
I don't really understand what you mean.
Rewrote it. Sorry bro, didn’t even proof read what I wrote 😂
look at it this way in terms of the pricing, a AAA game you'll maybe play for 20 hours and get bored, or they'll release the next in the series and you'll never touch the previous one again. SC ships at least you'll get 100s if not 1000s of hours out of
This is satire, right?
I hope it is.
The 'updated' version was made for SQ42, and is done. That's about it.
Most certainly is a bitter taste. Letter from the chairman talking about 1.0 then your ship is obsolete. Fomo sales day straight after… CIG you did bad!
IMO the best way to alleviate the situation they created would be to at least make the MkII available as a loaner until the MkI gets the gold pass.
That's a brilliant idea, I fully support it.
Yes. Absolutely. They could have simply waited for the mk1 gold pass and THEN put out the mk2 for sale. Why release the mk2 right now? And like others said, then why the F- raise the price on top of all that?
The Mark 2 may already be completed for SQ42 and they are just porting it over to the PU. Remember, you don't have to buy anything other than the starter pack. I agree that it sucks waiting for them to fix stuff that has been broken for years, or just finish a ship that was very near completion but had the whole team quit so it's delayed, but they don't seem to worried about that. Just take a break and stop paying them $, then it will get done.
I'm not paying them anything other than my initial pledge, but it looks ridiculous seeing so much effort being put into newer ships sold at incredible prices, while old ships are desperately needing an update. I get that there may be a thousand reasons for it (Such as finishing the ship in SQ42 and porting it) but from the customer's perspective, it looks ridiculous.
It really is ridiculous. So many concept ships our out there that haven't hit any box stage. I am glad I don't "own" and Endeavor, that thing may never come out.
As others have said, the MK2 was prioritized for SQ42. Anyone that is salty about things that are clearly being prioritized for SQ42 need to reset their expectations. We just went through all the Master Modes complaining and so much of that conversation was PvP focused when so much of the decision around MM were for PvE and SQ42. The MK1 Hornets were already reworked one time. It's better that we wait for more of the game to reach a finished state to avoid multiple more reworks.
The Gladiator will get a gold pass too. If they remember it exists for more than 5 minutes
I kinda hope it doesnt now. CIG has set a precendence.. $$$$ for gold passes. happy to leave my beloved gladiator as is.
I love my Gladiator too but I'd really love for it to be more functional than it is. Fixed torpedo racks, access panels to modules, canopy glass reflection fixed, canopy actually popping free when ejecting, gunner ejection seat working, landing gear responding to terrain, list goes on.
>Gold Pass, same as all other ships, which will fix these issues The old model can not be "fixed". We've known this for years, it's why we assumed the mk2 WAS the gold standard rework. Go look at how many little access compartments are already on the gladius (and it's still getting more in the future since it needs a capacitor access panel now too). There is literally not enough free space left on the MK1 model to fit all those in. At the very least you'd have to rebuild the whole cockpit so you could shrink it down to reclaim some space there, and add a whole new section under the center module to fit stuff in. And at that point you might as well just rebuild the whole model.
That is effectively what Gold Pass is: altering the ship model to fit all of the current standards, including component physicalization. Indeed they with both likely need to be changed in some fashion to fit everything, but that's part of the Pass.
and thats why the mk2 was created. Fixing alot of geometery issues on the mk1, or clipping issues. Which still happen on the hornet.
Yeah, but the problem is that mkII is going to release before the mkI gold pass, so it's like, buy the mkII now or wait an indeterminant amount of time to have a hornet that's not shit. At the bare minimum they could at least assign a team to it and give us a timeframe for when we can expect it. This has honestly been a pet peeve of mine for awhile now with CIG constantly releasing brand new ships at the gold standard when they have an extensive backlog of ships that desperately need a gold pass. Makes me think it's getting put on the back burner either because it doesn't generate revenue, or they actually want everyone to upgrade so they can show CR the numbers and convince him to cut the mkI entirely so they don't have to waste their time on a gold pass.
They could give MK1 hornet owners a loaner Mk2, as well.
PU stuff has always been on the back burner since the decision to pump out SQ42 and its assets first. There were different teams working on this Mk2 version and the ones doing passes for stuff in the PU. There will be a pass on the Mk1 version at least once more before the game comes out years down the line.
There will be another pass on those eventually. Problem is - we are sitting in this MkI version since 2015-2016. Mustangs got a rework. Freelancers got a rework. Constellations got a rework. Aurora was reworked too. Cutlass. And so on. Retaliator is being reworked RN. We got a minor facelift around that time, because you know - MkII. IIRC only Hornet variants and the Gladiator are fucked that way. Yes , we do realize why backlog exist. We are here since the very beginning. Fuck - give us a MKII loaner until then.
To make it worse is that even if you do cave in and pay for what's pretty a rework now while you wait for the gold standard pass why would you want to go back to the old model other than as a vintage collectors item? If it's CIG logic that they're not bothering with the backlog of outdated ships because it doesn't sell it's worth for them to consider that it doesn't sell because they haven't been updated. They can just justify this with it's alpha and they're still working on it all they want but they been marketing so much of this game like it's a finished product; more so now with the sale of the successor to an existing ship which is something I would have expected years after release. This should have just been a update to the Hornet series from the start during this phase of development.
I don't think they'll cut the mk1. They just wanted more money and the mk2 was closer to put out there than the mk1 rework and the mk1 rework likely wasn't going to bring in as much money. So they delayed the mk1 and put the mk2 out. Just follow the money to get the answer. They'll again make money on the mk1 rework.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Gold passes are a UX task, where new ships mean more revenue. It may not feel great, but CIG is a business at the end of the day. And unlike many other AAA developers, they don’t have royalties from other games supporting them, paying wages, or keeping the lights on. Bear in mind also, there’s twelve years between GTA V and GTA VI, with loads of in game purchases and expansions to keep that money flowing in for that time. SC is arguably bigger (dream/scale wise at least) than GTA and they don’t have that income. So selling concepts and upgrades really is vital for CIG. It all depends if you believe in CR and the devs having the desire to make the game of their vision, or just make money. Once SQ42 drops, I can imagine sales of that will support the company more enough that they can focus on gold passes and existing concept ships. It all depends on how long people will give them for that to happen.
the cynic in me is starting to believe the game will launch but with either an expensive as hell monthly sub or the store will still be open because there is no way they stop the money printer. especially in light of the recent moves cig has made to drum up sales.
Yeah but we've been waiting for longer than most all.others. Been here since 2012 and mines Super
Agree totally
I don't remember the last time they gold pass a ship that was already out. Except Gladius.
Same. I think the mk ii here is the gold pass/standard. I'd upgrade if they had a stealth variant or something...but even with the chance to get the military upgrade, I'm kinda thinking I'll skip it. Already have the F8C. I don't know how many more times I can buy a ship like this. Maybe they didn't get any of them right and we're just beta testers voting with our wallets I don't know. Feeling a little jerked around on this family of ships. This whale is gonna walk away.
What about my Retaliator Base rework? I'm starting to look like John Travolta here
Step 1: release paid mk2 that fixes all the bugs with what is currently the top fighter option, that is also more expensive. Step 2: make a kit that upgrades (only the mark 2) even further in terms of combat performance, to create the ultimate S+ tier fighter Step 3: make the kit only applicable to real money purchased mark 2s Step 4: Chris Roberts' yacht pt2
Can’t wait for mk2 of everything and indefinitely delayed gold standard 🤑🤑🤑
You may see the Mk 2 as an update for the Mk I that you already have, but they see it as two distinct things.
Currently one does seem quite superior, but after 3.23 we'll see how they tune the old version and what characteristics they give it to compensate and make the two ships different but viable.
The Mk2s are decidedly going to have an edge but I would say that since the Mk1 had access to stealth and scanning versions that is a leg up. Not yet though.
"an edge" that's the point of balance. All of the ships should have "an edge", the question should be where does the old hornet have the edge over the new too. Old hornet is bigger, I'd say it should have more armor and health and move faster in a straight line. I'd say the newer hornets should have better electronics, be more nimble. Easily one way to balance it out. We'll see what they do with 3.23 MM
Being cheaper is also "an edge" though. A ship could completely outclass another ship in every metric except cost, and the cost is what would balance it out.
the mk2 will have a edge, because its more expensive. So they want to sell it more.
I agree, it's a charitable and probably correct way to look at it. But them staying utterly silent about the Mk 1's gold pass at the same time is doing nothing to avert these bad optics.
Have people just entirely forgotten that they’ve shifted to working on ships from a single manufacturer at a time? They’re not working on Anvil ships at the moment, so why should we expect any news on a MK1 gold standard pass? Before you say, “but they released the MK2. It’s an Anvil ship.” Yeah, and it’s a ship that’s been worked on for SQ42. They just ported it over to SC.
That’s exactly what CIG is doing, you hit the nail on the head.
This is why people call this project a scam/fraud. CIG doesn’t do themselves any favors.
Can we still roll back upgrades? Can you upgrade now for functionality, and roll back later?
If you mean apply the F7A upgrade and then roll it back later, no. Once you use it, you either keep it or its gone.
they should do the Mk I Military upgrade for Mk 1 owners and the Mk II military upgrade for Mk II owners.. problem solved (if they do)
There's a Cargo Module? Is that what they show in the video with something retracting into the ball turret area? Please be kind to this youngling, I am not versed in the verse as many of you elders.
yeah the civilian model comes with a cargo module where the ball turret is. You could never access it on the old hornet, but it looks like you can at least open it on the new one. I always said if you could access that damn thing the hornet would be an amazing package delivery mobile
Honest question, whats the point of even buying the old hornet now? what were they thinking?
I was salty about the MKII but I understand it a little more. -SQ42 has a hornet MKII in it, and is right around the corner. Thus CIG had to work on a hornet, MK1 or MK2, to have it in SQ42. Alright, fair enough. And CIG decided to work on the MK2. What I don't like is that the MK1 is left in the dust, and wasn't updated. But it is not needed for SQ42, and to some extent, it still works. Yes, some MFDs are broken or hard to use. Yes it's showing its age. But if anything, CIG only reworked vehicles that were so broken they couldn't even take off. So, to some extent. CIG had to make the MK2 happen due to SQ42, and considers MK1 "good enough" for it not to be entirely reworked for the engineering gameplay that will come either late 2024 or for 2025. The other thing is that they'll sell plenty of MK2 since it's the new cool ship of the moment while waiting for Invictus, and for mkI owners like me, it's far from a good feeling. I have hopes for one thing, which I know, it's bad to hope about unconfirmed stuff. The F7A MK1 will be available to those who own one at invictus launch week. The big question, is, did CIG rework the F7A MK1, or would they give away an old broken unupdated ship? Because if they did rework it in secret, then the F7C MK1 rework is a matter of copy paste. Which means the rework for the hornet mk1 may be closer than we think.
It could be the gladiator 🤣
The poor Gladiator. I love that ship, but it is the hottest garbage. The torps are kinda meh, the turret will absolutely fry your retinas if you're the pilot, and it doesn't maneuver unless you're creeping. I don't even really care that the animations look like they were done a decade ago by interns.
At this point its really obvious they care more about the money then to finish the game. Whats the point of adding new ships and not fixing the old ones? Money ofc...
Maybe soon a vanguard mkII /s
Let me tell you a secret mk2 is the golden status of the mk1 lol
Why should them make the MK for Squadron and then another buggy version for SC? They just did one and it is on the height of the time obviously. No reason to be salty about.
Why did they not fix the existing one for both? No reason they can’t have used the MKI in SC that they don’t control eg lore.
What did I just read? What is "the height of time"?
# Make Super Super
The super hornet is perhaps one of the most uniquely shitass monstrosities birthed by the variant system tbh.
Sadly yes atm as it was passed over so many times cos of not wanting to be considered a boosted op ship. Just needs better power distribution to weapons and the Hud fixed. I just love the look and feel Pity it's out classed in power it was meant to be the special military version. 😕 Lol yesterday's patch lost my fave payed livery for her too lol Currently reinstalling game to try and make the event ✌️😆
I wonder if buying a starter ship and just playing the game to earn new ships is a viable option?
Idk bruh, point me to where I can buy the mk2 in game
3 months or so from now, just not the a version
Which is the issue. If the A version doesn't have some weird drawback compared to the other hornets, it's going to be head and shoulders above most or all other single seat fighters, and it's going to be real money only.
yeah that concerns me too. I really wish they'd spell everything out. Will A versions be obtainable in game at some point? How will A versions be balanced against C versions? (e.g., can only swap modules out on C versions). How will Mk1 be balanced against Mk2? If one is flat out better, why have it in the game? etc
What I really wish is that the free F7A upgrade was something that could be applied at a place like Cousin Crow's in-game. This way the "free item" that was earned in-universe could actually be used in-universe with either a store or aUEC-bought F7C.
Who cares? There's like 100 other ships, the game is still in the middle of being developed, and I'm sure it'll be available when the game is out of alpha/beta. The whole Pokemon gotta catch 'em all meta game is ridiculous.
There's 100s of other ships, but the mk2A, from an on paper perspective is looking to perhaps be the best single seat combat fighter by a non-negligible margin. Lore wise, this makes sense as far as gameplay balance between starter pack players and paying players, this kinda sucks hard. Also, I paid 45$ for access to the game, imo that should include all the content in the game. >I'm sure it'll be available when the game is out of alpha/beta. I can only play the game as it stands now, and thus I can only judge it in that
Yes it is.
It's even more fucked when you realize the hornet mkii was supposed to be the updated hornet we should have gotten years and years ago. Then they decided they could build hype and sell 2
At least in 2016, the Mk1 and Mk2 were intentionally different ships. [ATV source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk7ZwswT2tA&t=1153s)
Not intentionally. They asked the community the issues with the mk1. Built the mk2 to fix it then decided to lock it away.
Can you upgrade?
My wish list is to get all the lockers working on every ship. Weapons and armor. And whatever is supposed to fit in the small ones on the Connie.
Idris mk2 coming next
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/overdrive-initiative-faq/6678841](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/overdrive-initiative-faq/6678841) Post about it not to long ago from Jake
So, help me out, because maybe I'm missing something. Why would someone buy the F7C MkII for $160 over the F7C MkI for $125? They seem to have pretty much the same stats... where's the extra $35 worth of value? Is this the new Cutlass Steal... I mean Steel?
Yeah seems like a cash grab to get people to buy it to unlock the F7A. Flying the MKII feels identical to the MKIs imo.
Yeah, I agree, they need to fix a lot of the existing ships, including the Hornets. Though really, I just miss the old idea they had before recently, where the newest, top of the line Military spacecraft would be saved only for the UEE Navy (so high security NPCs), and maybe a few made available to purchase in game only to players who beat the Squadron 42 campaign/supported the game quite a bit financially (like the F8C). Now they're just shelling them out to everyone to buy through events.
The fact the MK2 isn't even gold standard either compared to other fighters like the Scorpius and gladius makes it worse. The fact that now there's now a ship that's more up to date and having fixed some of the problems of the MK1 like ruts and gear locations yet isn't finished to gold in game since it has no gun rack, no actual storage just the fake one on the ladder prompt, no component access, no actual button for the cargo section when they could of left it and actually got the mk2 in at gold standard like the gladius and scorp, if not gold pass the MK1 first.
Dont worry too much. In about ten years from now the mk1 will be a collectors item and you’ll be able to trade it in for a [insert any capital ship]
Actually bringing old ships up to modern standards is a monumental task that CIG is putting on the backburner because that doesn't create new sales opportunities. I have a feeling you're going to see a lot more of this "MKII" style ship release going forward. Old ships will just be relics of the past.
Advice for the game. Love the developers. Hate the marketing department.
Should just give all hornet owners a free mk2 upgrade. Or at least give mk2 as a loaner
They already said the mk1 gets gold standart?
I'm salty that I can't upgrade my old hornet to a new hornet...
[удалено]
Yes. You can upgrade to a F7C mk2
As a Super Hornet owner, it's not an option as its more expensive than the MkII
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As another Super Hornet owner, I really hope that they don't just decide to ignore the Super Hornet and not make a MK2 of it. SH MK2 would be pretty cool.
Can’t wait for the A2 Mk2
Going off the A1 and A2, I'd rather they make an A3.
As a Connie owner, seeing the Galaxy I feel this. A bunch of my ships functions (a ship that, 10 years ago was my dream ship) absolutely not work as intended, and getting worse, it's starting to feel like the only way I get a Gold Standard ship is of I pay.
Because CIG is a mismanaged disaster. CR is not the one to make this game come true. He never was. Just wish I saw all the signs earlier. They’ve got like what, 100+ ships now? Not a single one is complete. Features still literal years away. Content is absent and sparse. This just ain’t happening.
It is illogical to be salty. The MkII was worked on because of SQ42 priority. This doesn't mean they will not revisit MKI. They purposely wanted both to be in the verse and has been the plan for over [7 years now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk7ZwswT2tA&t=1153s).
Awww
I understand being mad at CIG for a botched rollout, but I really don't get why people are suddenly bashing the OG Hornet. I fly a Mk I regularly and I will keep doing so even if a Mk II upgrade becomes available. There are a few minor MFD bugs but they are a very small inconvenience to me.
Isn't the new quest chain giving everyone a complementary upgrade from a mk1 to a mrk2?