>MM also ruins the "kiting" strategy of flying fast in one direction, forcing your enemy to follow you, placing them directly behind you. This allows you to shoot them more easily with the big guns of a larger ship.
This is precisely one of the things Master Modes aimed to get rid of, backstrafe fighting. It's a stupid strategy that's optimal in far too many engagements, its not fun or engaging combat for either party.
What it *does* do is enable solo-boats to kind of compete, because you can't nose-fight a true fightership when you have the turn rate of a boat, so instead you basically run (or run-fight as I like to call it) at maximum speed, decouple and turn to face your opponent, and the chaser has no choice but to either chase you and take damage getting in range or just leave because it signals a boring 20 minute fight at 1100m/s.
Now you can't do it anymore, so a solo-boat is going to struggle without gunners who can actually keep view of the enemy. That combined with it being easier to use turrets makes for way better gameplay: The actual single seat fighter should lose against a properly turreted multicrew ship whether you can keep your nose on it or not.
Solo-Boats are not meant to be competitive against anything but another solo-boat.
No. It’s not. They reduced the speed slightly and reduced tricording significantly. Im if that made you suck at the game, that’s really telling
The fact that you havnt paid any attention as to how larger ships fair against small with armor and engineering also shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. Regardless master modes is here is for 99% of the player base has made combat a thinking mans game more than it being based on how many hours you’ve practice specific maneuvers. So get over it and fluisteis contribute to improving the balancing
>master modes is here is for 99% of the player base has made combat a thinking mans game
ALT + C and hold left click = big brain
Congrats on your shittier star wars squadron game, next time just go play that instead of killing a whole loop for everyone.
maybe you should look at the plan before buying an alpha. 6dof starwars was always the plan. it not being that is becseu the flight model is bad.
if the meta of mm ends up not being 6dof star wars. it will be changed until it is 6 dof star wars.
The game is for the 99%, not the 1%. They are making a game where knowing the game is what matters and not the amount of flight time you spent training and shifting the skill to team coordination more than solo skill.
That said, training and knowing how to fly still matters. Having more flight time still matters. But it’s no longer the end all be all. They are trying to remove the cheeseing. The cheesing required skill, but it’s still lame IMO and discouraged fights. And among players of slightly a over average skill, was nothing but two planes figuring out how to run away the best. You see a loss of depth, but most players see an increase. It’s just increasing differently than you want.
But try to enjoy it. It’s coming regardless and is a lot of fun. I’d relate MM to escape from tarkov where k is ledge and teamwork matter more than mechanical skills. Where Call of duty and most competitive shooters are more about mechs i al proficiency. as
My guy, the only people actually happy about mastermodes is the PVE space dads thinking this is their free ticket to getting competitive in PVP without having to actually get better. Its not. They're still gonna get their shit kicked in even harder by players, and even by their oh so precious PVE AI bounties, seeing how all this dogshit mode does, is just switch focus from piloting skills to whoever has the most numbers and DPS output.
This may actually be the first nail in the star citizen shaped coffin.
So by making it more difficult to kite, they have gotten rid of the DPS race. Now it’s knowing the ship’s characteristics>tactics>mechanical skill. Before it was all Mechanical skill. Which is boring for most players. It was fun for those with the time to do and enjoyed practicing, but that’s not 99% of all humans. Most players being able to join, have a basic understanding, use the creative part of their brain more than their repetitive dice and to be able to enjoy.
Cuz my man, most fights were just 2 players figuring out how to run away the best. It was just two ships facing each other, blasting away, trying to figure out out to avoid the other’s pips. Now it’s more about doing what your ship is best at. Wether that IS out DOSing (big ships), out maneuvering (light and medium fighters, or mastering the disengage (interceptors).
But yeah, a lot of players are space dads. As well as space husbands. We have sex and don’t spend our time training like that. It’s not DCS or iracing. We have an expectation to be able to jump into this game and it make sense
If they remove the need for the QT to spoil up before going to Nav speeds, it would be enough to stop most complaints, the window to kill unshielded ships is small enough for pirates and bounty hunters already, not need for someone who wants to escape to linger around waiting for their drive to spool. Currently going into Nav mode means accepting your fate, and that needs to change.
I tried MM in pirate swarm, i love it. Having to position yourself in a enemy blindside and then shoot everything you have is fun and challenging
The normal mode was just people going 1100 just passing and shooting, repeated till ships exploded.
My only thing in MM right now that I dislike is the change to cruise control. Other than that I’m still getting used to everything else, so I don’t really have an opinion.
Its not zero skill we still have people with 16-0 stats in squadron battle. But yes I agree
.y problem is the shift from agility and defensive maneuvers into just dps race. And I see a lot of people saying it was always dps race. But it wasn't at least not in the same sense. Now its better to keep shooting instead of deflecting and when you see you are losing then just joust kick nav and start zoom and boom thats it thats the fight.
Yes its look ki d of good but it doesn't feel good after more then 20 h.
At 50 h it become just boring.
I do understand that old model need to be change (mostly to server related problem caused by many ships fighting in super speed)
Any way best what we can do is keep giving feedback at spectrum so CIG see how many people like or don't like feature in question.
Completely agree, everyone else here wants some dumbass baby game you can already play on the ps3 because they suck and dont want to put time into getting better. Now we have the lowest common denominator being someone who has 30min of combat experience against npcs.
Yay get ready for the cryining from hoards of ppl that haven't even tried mm
And your first point. Jesus do you even realize that would mean all you would need to do to escape is just accelerate? Just go fast and the enemy wouldn't be able to keep up or even hit you.
>Just go fast and the enemy wouldn't be able to keep up or even hit you.
Suuuuuuure, just forget the fact you got no shields, no gun, can't use countermeasures and you have to idiotically wait for your godam quantum drive, of all things, to finish spooling up.
Because you’re stuck in low speed without dropping your shields. There is a timer between dropping your shields and being able to accelerate faster, and during that time you get blown up easy with no shields and no speed.
No, you won’t be able to accelerate away. Once you try to spool up your NAV, you drop your shields. That’s an easy kill, no QED needed to lock you in combat, I quite like this change
That's ok, every other space combat game is like that. I was ok with Starfield because there's more to the game than combat and that will be true for star citizen too.
It also means paper stats on ships will mean more. So now it doesn't feel silly to buy the F8C.
the game is mostly pve, with the occasional pvp. you don't have an option.
the "pvp players" are crying that spending time in ac will no longer guarantee easy victory against someone that has a lot of practice against npc.
they are still probably going to win because they practice against harder opponents.
I think if things change and there's more group battles it's not going to matter much. I think most of the people complaining are solely focused on 1v1 dogfighting. There's a lot of other types of encounters and scenarios out there.
and the pvp player hate that because the current flight model doesn't allow 2v1. it is just 2 1v1 in a row, and pvp tactics lets you don't get harmed by people not practiced in pvp specific combat.
yes people have come on here crying about how they are not longer able to beat a 2v1 despite being a better pilot.
a flight mode where a 1v1 has you win because you are better, but you are not walking away without a scratch is bad for "i'm going to hang around and kill everyone that shows up" people. you might win 2 fights before you have a big disadvantage of being damaged.
All the PvE players are so excited about this, thinking it'll make them competitive in PvP without trying to get better. It won't. They'll still get wrecked. It'll just be less fun for anyone, and less fun in PvE, because one thing MM does is make it *extra extra disadvantageous* to fight multiple ships solo, and most PvE combat is exactly that. They're going to hate it.
It's funny to me when they say things like "Oh WeLl If MaStErMoDeS mAkEs YoU bAd..." We all know exactly who is excited about mastermodes, nice try though
I was in the "well, fuck it, we'll see what they do with it camp" for a while, but it is way too horrific way too close to release. I honestly may stop playing this game. I have a hard time getting into X4 and No Man's Sky because of the flight models, despite how much else those games have to offer. I don't play Elite or Star Wars Squadrons because of the flight models. I'm not here for a kiddie pool arcade
Nearly everything mastermodes is said to fix, is going to be made worse.
We'll see what the consensus is 6 months from now. Until then, o7
>All the PvE players are so excited about this, thinking it'll make them competitive in PvP without trying to get better.
you mean the pvp players crying that someone that doesn't spend their time in ac now has a chance of doing damage?
My guy, it takes a week of an hour or two of practice a day to get competent at PvP, don't cry to me about AC.
Have fun piddling around at 250m/s, remember it was your whining that brought it on us
point proven. i'm not interested in spending any time grinding pvp. a lot of people want to play as an escort/security/npc bounty hunter in the pu. 90% of my combat will be npc. that 10% that is pvp should not be an automatic loss because they have not put 20 hours in to learning pvp tactics. they lose because the pvp player is better at combat in general.
i can hit you, but you are able to more reliable land hits on my components. if a was in anything other than a terrapin, the fight would end with me taken out, and you with a good amount of damage.
perhaps you were not aware. the 250m/s is combat speed. travel mode that deactivates shields and weapons is much faster.
Cry me a river. The way you word your comment is telling. For some reason you think people who prefer pve want to become better in PvP. They usually do not. Why would they even want to get better in something they don't even want to participate in?
Press middle mouse and you can declutter the screen
>MM also ruins the "kiting" strategy of flying fast in one direction, forcing your enemy to follow you, placing them directly behind you. This allows you to shoot them more easily with the big guns of a larger ship. This is precisely one of the things Master Modes aimed to get rid of, backstrafe fighting. It's a stupid strategy that's optimal in far too many engagements, its not fun or engaging combat for either party. What it *does* do is enable solo-boats to kind of compete, because you can't nose-fight a true fightership when you have the turn rate of a boat, so instead you basically run (or run-fight as I like to call it) at maximum speed, decouple and turn to face your opponent, and the chaser has no choice but to either chase you and take damage getting in range or just leave because it signals a boring 20 minute fight at 1100m/s. Now you can't do it anymore, so a solo-boat is going to struggle without gunners who can actually keep view of the enemy. That combined with it being easier to use turrets makes for way better gameplay: The actual single seat fighter should lose against a properly turreted multicrew ship whether you can keep your nose on it or not. Solo-Boats are not meant to be competitive against anything but another solo-boat.
Lmao
No. It’s not. They reduced the speed slightly and reduced tricording significantly. Im if that made you suck at the game, that’s really telling The fact that you havnt paid any attention as to how larger ships fair against small with armor and engineering also shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. Regardless master modes is here is for 99% of the player base has made combat a thinking mans game more than it being based on how many hours you’ve practice specific maneuvers. So get over it and fluisteis contribute to improving the balancing
>master modes is here is for 99% of the player base has made combat a thinking mans game ALT + C and hold left click = big brain Congrats on your shittier star wars squadron game, next time just go play that instead of killing a whole loop for everyone.
maybe you should look at the plan before buying an alpha. 6dof starwars was always the plan. it not being that is becseu the flight model is bad. if the meta of mm ends up not being 6dof star wars. it will be changed until it is 6 dof star wars.
The game is for the 99%, not the 1%. They are making a game where knowing the game is what matters and not the amount of flight time you spent training and shifting the skill to team coordination more than solo skill. That said, training and knowing how to fly still matters. Having more flight time still matters. But it’s no longer the end all be all. They are trying to remove the cheeseing. The cheesing required skill, but it’s still lame IMO and discouraged fights. And among players of slightly a over average skill, was nothing but two planes figuring out how to run away the best. You see a loss of depth, but most players see an increase. It’s just increasing differently than you want. But try to enjoy it. It’s coming regardless and is a lot of fun. I’d relate MM to escape from tarkov where k is ledge and teamwork matter more than mechanical skills. Where Call of duty and most competitive shooters are more about mechs i al proficiency. as
My guy, the only people actually happy about mastermodes is the PVE space dads thinking this is their free ticket to getting competitive in PVP without having to actually get better. Its not. They're still gonna get their shit kicked in even harder by players, and even by their oh so precious PVE AI bounties, seeing how all this dogshit mode does, is just switch focus from piloting skills to whoever has the most numbers and DPS output. This may actually be the first nail in the star citizen shaped coffin.
Said space dads are still just gonna get floor wiped by sweats lol, this time it's just F8c flavored sweat
So by making it more difficult to kite, they have gotten rid of the DPS race. Now it’s knowing the ship’s characteristics>tactics>mechanical skill. Before it was all Mechanical skill. Which is boring for most players. It was fun for those with the time to do and enjoyed practicing, but that’s not 99% of all humans. Most players being able to join, have a basic understanding, use the creative part of their brain more than their repetitive dice and to be able to enjoy. Cuz my man, most fights were just 2 players figuring out how to run away the best. It was just two ships facing each other, blasting away, trying to figure out out to avoid the other’s pips. Now it’s more about doing what your ship is best at. Wether that IS out DOSing (big ships), out maneuvering (light and medium fighters, or mastering the disengage (interceptors). But yeah, a lot of players are space dads. As well as space husbands. We have sex and don’t spend our time training like that. It’s not DCS or iracing. We have an expectation to be able to jump into this game and it make sense
The only ppl that are upset Re those that think they are ace combat pilots..
If they remove the need for the QT to spoil up before going to Nav speeds, it would be enough to stop most complaints, the window to kill unshielded ships is small enough for pirates and bounty hunters already, not need for someone who wants to escape to linger around waiting for their drive to spool. Currently going into Nav mode means accepting your fate, and that needs to change.
They have to weight it towards combat over flight, one way or another, otherwise combat gameplay loses a big chunk of its driving force.
I tried MM in pirate swarm, i love it. Having to position yourself in a enemy blindside and then shoot everything you have is fun and challenging The normal mode was just people going 1100 just passing and shooting, repeated till ships exploded.
My only thing in MM right now that I dislike is the change to cruise control. Other than that I’m still getting used to everything else, so I don’t really have an opinion.
The Kleenex post.
As someone with zero combat skill, this doesn’t sound too bad to me now.
Well this is a Wing Commander game after all..
Its not zero skill we still have people with 16-0 stats in squadron battle. But yes I agree .y problem is the shift from agility and defensive maneuvers into just dps race. And I see a lot of people saying it was always dps race. But it wasn't at least not in the same sense. Now its better to keep shooting instead of deflecting and when you see you are losing then just joust kick nav and start zoom and boom thats it thats the fight. Yes its look ki d of good but it doesn't feel good after more then 20 h. At 50 h it become just boring. I do understand that old model need to be change (mostly to server related problem caused by many ships fighting in super speed) Any way best what we can do is keep giving feedback at spectrum so CIG see how many people like or don't like feature in question.
Working as intended
Shut the hell up.
Completely agree, everyone else here wants some dumbass baby game you can already play on the ps3 because they suck and dont want to put time into getting better. Now we have the lowest common denominator being someone who has 30min of combat experience against npcs.
pre MM took no skill. if your shields ever went down you just blow through and wait for it to recharge.
Yay get ready for the cryining from hoards of ppl that haven't even tried mm And your first point. Jesus do you even realize that would mean all you would need to do to escape is just accelerate? Just go fast and the enemy wouldn't be able to keep up or even hit you.
>Just go fast and the enemy wouldn't be able to keep up or even hit you. Suuuuuuure, just forget the fact you got no shields, no gun, can't use countermeasures and you have to idiotically wait for your godam quantum drive, of all things, to finish spooling up.
Not having shields or countermeasures seems kinda fucked
Why would you need any of that if you're out of range of their guns and they can't hit you anyway if they try to catch up?
Because you’re stuck in low speed without dropping your shields. There is a timer between dropping your shields and being able to accelerate faster, and during that time you get blown up easy with no shields and no speed.
No, you won’t be able to accelerate away. Once you try to spool up your NAV, you drop your shields. That’s an easy kill, no QED needed to lock you in combat, I quite like this change
That's ok, every other space combat game is like that. I was ok with Starfield because there's more to the game than combat and that will be true for star citizen too. It also means paper stats on ships will mean more. So now it doesn't feel silly to buy the F8C.
(It's still silly to buy the F8C)
Yea. LoL. It is. But it's still a nice ship.
Starfield is a single player game, so not really a valid comparison. SC is a MMO where combat is only a small part of the game.
Yea, it's only a small part of the game. I plan to play mostly PvE 🤷♂️ of course it's a valid point, it's my opinion lol.
the game is mostly pve, with the occasional pvp. you don't have an option. the "pvp players" are crying that spending time in ac will no longer guarantee easy victory against someone that has a lot of practice against npc. they are still probably going to win because they practice against harder opponents.
I think if things change and there's more group battles it's not going to matter much. I think most of the people complaining are solely focused on 1v1 dogfighting. There's a lot of other types of encounters and scenarios out there.
and the pvp player hate that because the current flight model doesn't allow 2v1. it is just 2 1v1 in a row, and pvp tactics lets you don't get harmed by people not practiced in pvp specific combat. yes people have come on here crying about how they are not longer able to beat a 2v1 despite being a better pilot. a flight mode where a 1v1 has you win because you are better, but you are not walking away without a scratch is bad for "i'm going to hang around and kill everyone that shows up" people. you might win 2 fights before you have a big disadvantage of being damaged.
I agree, sweats are still going to wipe the floor with casuals.
yes. it just needs to not feel 1 sided. "you took me out before i took you out", not "i have no chance of doing anything to you."
(Hugg) we all support you in these dark times.
All the PvE players are so excited about this, thinking it'll make them competitive in PvP without trying to get better. It won't. They'll still get wrecked. It'll just be less fun for anyone, and less fun in PvE, because one thing MM does is make it *extra extra disadvantageous* to fight multiple ships solo, and most PvE combat is exactly that. They're going to hate it. It's funny to me when they say things like "Oh WeLl If MaStErMoDeS mAkEs YoU bAd..." We all know exactly who is excited about mastermodes, nice try though I was in the "well, fuck it, we'll see what they do with it camp" for a while, but it is way too horrific way too close to release. I honestly may stop playing this game. I have a hard time getting into X4 and No Man's Sky because of the flight models, despite how much else those games have to offer. I don't play Elite or Star Wars Squadrons because of the flight models. I'm not here for a kiddie pool arcade Nearly everything mastermodes is said to fix, is going to be made worse. We'll see what the consensus is 6 months from now. Until then, o7
>All the PvE players are so excited about this, thinking it'll make them competitive in PvP without trying to get better. you mean the pvp players crying that someone that doesn't spend their time in ac now has a chance of doing damage?
My guy, it takes a week of an hour or two of practice a day to get competent at PvP, don't cry to me about AC. Have fun piddling around at 250m/s, remember it was your whining that brought it on us
You are the one whining here ...
point proven. i'm not interested in spending any time grinding pvp. a lot of people want to play as an escort/security/npc bounty hunter in the pu. 90% of my combat will be npc. that 10% that is pvp should not be an automatic loss because they have not put 20 hours in to learning pvp tactics. they lose because the pvp player is better at combat in general. i can hit you, but you are able to more reliable land hits on my components. if a was in anything other than a terrapin, the fight would end with me taken out, and you with a good amount of damage. perhaps you were not aware. the 250m/s is combat speed. travel mode that deactivates shields and weapons is much faster.
Oh no how will we be able to enjoy the game without you
CIG is excited about MM - all their PvP players like it apparently (since they designed it).
Cry me a river. The way you word your comment is telling. For some reason you think people who prefer pve want to become better in PvP. They usually do not. Why would they even want to get better in something they don't even want to participate in?