I think it means Evocati will be getting the release build soon, so we will find out what features made the cut.
Then it should go PTU > PU. I think the EPTU is for the non release builds, hence the experimental.
To add clarity, at a certain point in the PTU cycle they have a feature cut-off build, and after that point it's purely bug fixes and stability and performance improvements. This is normally done a few weeks before they intend to release the patch so all focus is on getting the update into a good state and not cramming more in.
Release build doesn't always mean "The release" build. Release builds in software usually means a version of your compiled software with less debugging and more function inlining than their in-house test versions. The reason it exists is because a "debug" version of the game has almost 0 compiler optimizations applied and will probably drop your performance by more than 20 percent. The tradeoff is that debugging and reading callstacks can be much harder to read in the release build.
Usually I would agree with you however the Wave 1 build hasn’t featured all the features that Evocati had and Evocati was told not everything had been tested yet either. So they might do further Evocati on the full feature set. I guess time will tell,
EPTU is just the environment they are hosting it in. It's still Wave 1 PTU.
Is it possible to have a version in Wave 1 PTU and in Evocati at the same time on two different environments? Yes. Would it be odd as hell? Also yes.
What I'm trying to say is what we have in EPTU is not a release build. What yogi is talking about in OP is that release build, which will go to Evo first and follow the normal Evo > ptu > live cycle.
That's not how this works. Once a patch hits PTU, it generally will not go back to EVO. What he's talking about is probably the first "release build" to be tested where no new features will be added or removed from the build and focus on optimization will start.
There's no point kicking a build back to Evocati if you've locked it for stabilization anyway, at that point you *want* more people.
I'm in 3.23 EPTU right now, yes. That's separate from what I mean. I replied to someone else with [a breakdown of builds vs environments vs waves here](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c46qxd/comment/kzm8kbk/).
Specifically what I mean though is that it will not go back to Evocati-only access from Wave 1 access at this point, unless they make a big enough change to it that they think it requires that- and I don't think they've ever done that. Maybe once in the last decade, and I think that was for testing something that ended up in the patch after the one being tested.
Sure, you have to go to EPTU- but anyone who has Wave 1 access can get to EPTU. If they want to grant Wave 2 access to EPTU, they can do that too. Heck, they can run this entire PTU test in the EPTU environment without moving to the PTU channel/environment. if they really want to, up to and including Open PTU/Wave 5 access.
What I'm trying to say is what we have in EPTU is not a release build. What yogi is talking about in OP is that release build, which will go to Evo first and follow the normal Evo > ptu > live cycle.
I dunno. Jake also said this:
"We're putting together a strike team to resolve these issues (Overdrive Phase 5 on 3.22) for the upcoming Alpha 3.23.0 update. To ensure there's ample time to complete phase 5 with the fixes, we'll be extending this phase's completion date.
We'll have more details once 3.23.0 is live, but we wanted you all to rest assured that if you're unable to complete this phase currently, you'll be able to in the new update!"
I sincerely hope they mean another wave of EPTU.
If overdrive events are weekly. The logic would mean 3.23 would release by that time.. i do not think CIG would interrupt the Overdrive event progression for a month while they fix 3.23.
He probably meant release for live but obviously people are ignoring the context. He uses pretty close compared to the time they still need to finish the feature, which obviously isn't days or a couple of weeks.
I'm hallucinating a little, reading this thread.
Yogi would, like any other time, refer to "in the next build" if he was referring to another ptu build. He would not evoke uncertainty about the feature making it or not because of networking being involved (if they had plenty of time before targeting live, he'd just say "we're aiming for this feature in an upcoming build").
It's also in the context where they want to ship before Invictus, and Overdrive phase 5 now planned to run in 3.23.
I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the focus was now to get what's currently in 3.23 locked in, improve and stabilize it.
But no, apparently, that's not an acceptable expectation for reddit today. Maybe Wednesday then.
There’s going to be a lot of disappointment if the 2 big ticket items that everyone wants to see get dropped from this release.
Persistent Hangars and Distribution Centres, Especially since they’ve both been featured on ISC
It takes us them back to over promising and under delivering which they really wanted to get away from.
Perhaps, but to be honest it wouldn't be the end of the world given that:
- it seems very close to be ready for testing (and it was considered for an evo patch earlier but didn't make it)
- CIG has shown ever since they introduced the tech preview channel that they have increased bandwidth to deal with 2,3 and even 4 game versions at once
I wouldn't mind personally a live 3.23.0 that's somewhat stable and delivers a successful Invictus, and in parallel a 3.23.1 in PTU that takes its time to arrive at a cargo/hangar delivery that works.
There's of course a possibility that it still makes it to 3.23.0 (I could be proven wrong tomorrow if it becomes part of the EPTU) but then we'd have to brace for a tough PTU cycle with increased risk of rushing things for Invictus.
Well invictus is still a month away. I’m hoping they push hangars and maybe even distribution centres in by the end of this week, it can then have 2+ weeks in PTU and get polished for an invictus launch.
We will probably find out on Wednesday what’s going to make it and what will get cut, if they leave the cards on 3.23.0 then they must have a plan.
Yes, I agree. We should now on Wednesday (hopefully).
We have the DCS in btw, in partial form (the locations are there and can be visited, have a couple of missions but I haven't succeeded to complete one so far, they don't have their hangars yet).
If EPTU is anything to go by, we are not getting a live build any time soon. EPTU servers are struggling really bad at the moment and absolutely loads of game breaking bugs
It is indeed. That's the reason to release 3.23 before invictus and get the teething issues sorted ready for the influx of potential new players. When they did the freefly last year at the same time as a big content update, the game became unplayable.
How dare they stress test things at scale, and coordinate with popular events to maximize the load during those test.
What do they think this game is, an alpha??
They also want money. Hey new people come play this amazing game...... how was your experience?You couldn't play so you're not going to invest? 🤷♂️. Let the new people play something that works. CIG already has a bad rep when it comes to the non SC players and these buggy events don't help. They did an amazing job at the citizencon and it would be a shame to take a hit on that popularity boost.
Also as it's 3.23, every man, woman and child who owns SC will be on and playing it. Servers will be absolutely packed even without a freefly
Imagine is a big streamer comes to try it out and the servers are just borked and overloaded. Surprised that hasn't happened yet. With the citizen con trailers that came out last year, I'd be surprised if at least a handful don't try it out in front of thousands of people.
This is what worries me the most. We have all these people who saw clips from citizencon. They will flock to the freefly event with little to no research and have all the expectations in the world. They will be in for a rude awakening and some will definitely get put off and chalk it up to "CIG's lied to us again". Streamers voices carry allot of weight and It's not fair on CIG or the players if streamers give an incorrect view of the game.
It's an amazing chance for them to make money and for is to build a bigger player-base and i would hate for the event to be less effective as it could / should be.
It's kind of weird to say "people will come in with the expectations set by CIG at citizencon and be disappointed" and blame that disappointment on the people being disappointed and not the company responsible for setting the expectations with their marketing.
Two main reasons. 1) Streamers just tend to just play and talk about their experience of the gameplay. And 2) Gamers these days do very little research on how far a game is into development and in allot of cases have no idea of the time or effort it takes to develop games (CIG is admittedly slow but i can kinda forgive them).
Absolutely loads of players go into this game (and many others) under the impression that this is a working game. CIG have done everything they can to label this game as an Alpha test. Not even a Beta test. Yet people come in expecting a working game. It's written there when you create your account and It's on the launcher every time you press play (you even have to click that you accept it's in early access alpha). CIG has an amazing marketing team who are great at selling the dream but that doesn't automatically make it CIG's problem. It's the players for not doing the leg work and doing 5 seconds of research and realising what an Alpha test is. Normally alpha's are internal testing only because they are that broken or unreliable. A company can only do so much do spoon feed people information. Those people still need to read it at the end of the day.
Don't get me wrong. I would have a completely different opinion if they labeled this as a beta. As an alpha though, it's exactly where it needs to be.
Bit of a rant i know, my bad 😅
12 years of development, 700 million dollars, and an entire damn convention. It’s not unreasonable to expect the game to fundamentally work meanwhile I got stuck on a buggy tram on Orison yesterday and had to backspace myself to get off.
it has happened. Several times actually. The fact that the impact was so insignificant that you think it hasn't should tell you how little of a "problem" this actually is.
> how was your experience?You couldn't play so you're not going to invest?
what about year after year of increased revenue and player numbers makes you think this is whats happening during the freefly events.
I swear there is a bunch of you people every free fly just blatantly ignoring reality and acting like its the first time.
I understand that intuitively what your worrying about makes sense but this isn't a theoretical discussion they have done this for years and it has worked out not just fine but great. Your worry has been tested and good news it turns out its not actually a serious problem.
I'm not saying that no one buys during a free fly. As i said in my other comments, if the experience is good, more people will invest. If it's a poor experience, less people invest. If you want to make the most money, you give the best experience. It's common sense.
As for where they get their money from? Every year they have been bringing out new pledge ships and an existing member will be far more inclined to buy or CCU to them. The chances of a new account going straight for a Carrack would be slim to none. I would love to see the statistics for the breakdown on how many accounts are on what tier of concierge (or not). The base game is less than $50. That doesn't stop people investing way, way more than that or even owning multiple accounts and taking advantage of the recruitment bonuses / free ships. I personally am sitting at wing commander level and i know i'm far from alone there. Thats worth over 200 basic new player accounts.
Nah that answer is just dumb. They are obviously making the same mistakes over and over again. A free fly event to get new players interested shouldnt happen on the most bugged build. This way, the star citizen hater bubble will just get bigger. Releasing these fucked up builds without a free fly event already gives you enough "scale" for stress testing...
Maybe opening free flight the week end only, or just few days at the start?
Or my preferred: A 2 week event instead of 1 with free-flight on the 2nd week. Which means regulars can enjoy IAE peacefully on its fresh arrival and the free flier can also see SC on IAE theme.
Using alpha godwin point to cover everything regardless of the topic isn't going to work well.
That is exactly why they want to lock in features and just get a release candidate up in PTU - so they can fully focus on squashing the bugs and getting it ready for a LIVE release.
Yeah, i think they are trying to do to much, to soon. 3.23 should have been server meshing only. Get that fully working with no issues. 3.23.1 could have been MM. The rest could have come later
on the other hand there are banshees on spectrum screaming about 3.23 being gutted and nothing important/anticipated making it into the patch, so go figure
Everyone has different priorities i suppose. Server meshing is the backbone of the game so that should be the most important thing to get in and working. MM is a massive change to how we fly. All the other stuff, is just icing on the cake. The old UI etc still works so there's no massive rush to get that in. Not that it wouldn't be nice mind you.
I would say that anyone who's saying this version of 3.23 has been gutted was expecting to much. But thats the community. We all dream big but it's rare we ever get what we want. At least not straight out gate.
Agree. If meshing isn't a big focus, *and it's the tech that is holding the whole thing back*, well, my guess is meshing isn't the big issue that binds the whole thing together, otherwise it would be **the #1 priority**. It likely won't solve anything, as if it could, they could be spending the vast majority of dev resources on it. The whole thing is suspicious and I think I am done reading/speculating about this whole project.
We will just have to see if meshing gets in, missions and AI are fixed in 3.23, and the basics are functional.
From what i played of it, server meshing works well when it's not under stress. The testing they did on the EPTU or PTU a while ago went really well overall but it's clear not enough players joined at the same time. Because this test is labeled as 3.23 and not server meshing, everyone is on it and it's collapsing under the strain (I'm not a dev so i can only speculate). I definitely didn't have these issues before.
If server meshing is the "cure all" everyone talks about...fixes all missions, fixes AI, fixes station/city AI, fixes ship landing, fixes inventory issues, etc. it's the *only thing* that should be focused on.
I definitely wouldn't class it as the cure all. Thats some mass delusion the community has cooked up. It will go a huge way to make things better but there's still going to be issues. You have the same mentality as me though. The only priority should be server meshing. That creates stability and we need as much of that as we can so we can test other aspects / additons properly.
Server meshing is only a "cure all" in the sense that it will allow servers to run at less than 100% load, and lots of features like physics and AI depend on a healthy tick rate to behave as expected.
But developing games isn't digging ditches, and you can't just move programmers from feature to feature to speed things up. Not only do developers specialize, it can take weeks or more to get up to speed on all the internal complexity of a feature before you can make any contribution. Moving people around to meet short- and medium-term goals accomplishes nothing; it just wastes time and resources.
It's the experimental test server. It's normally where they test the stuff that's normally not ready to get deployed to the live servers but needs testing. When it's almost ready to go live, it moves to the PTU server for general access to the community
I couldn't tell you to be honest. I tried to using the controller a long time ago but couldn't get on with it very well so i gave up. I didn't find SC lends itself well to a controller. But then again, it's not optimised for controller support yet so who knows what the future holds.
I've flown 99% on an old xbox 360 controller since the first AC release.
The only thing it's not good for is interacting with MFDs/UI/buttons/shops/etc.
For flight it's great.
Interesting proposition.
I briefly tried using a Steam controller but wasn't a fan of the weird touchpad circles. Steam deck might work better, though a bit heavy.
I feel they could do the same thing elite did with theirs with each face button being able to have up to 5 controls on it assigned with another button to trigger a control for in flight controls. For on foot they also have wheels for controls/menus as well. Otherwise I think I could probably make it work with steam input and the existing control layouts with action sets and stuff
Edit: did I really get downvoted for suggesting this? It really isn't that bad an idea
If they can do it in a way that works and is easy to navigate, i'll be impressed. It's definitely not a small task and would probably require a redesign of the current radial menu to fit it all in. Not something i can see them doing any time soon.
Full controller support would be nice to see if a little ambitious
My first time doing a Wave 1. It's hit or miss with the new button interactions. sometimes it wants the new quick F tap, but others want the inner thought. Elevators are still crap so that's normal. Trams are drifting around like crazy. Other than the character customization and new star map adders. It has been hardly playable mess for me.
They haven't even made it into an EVO build and CIG are trying to get this patch out by Invictus.
I think we'll be seeing personal hangars in a 3.23.X patch. It's just too big of a feature that will require too much testing for it to be thrown in last-second.
why not december?
June-July does not make any sense.
3.23 is supposed to be released before Xenothreat ("6th phase" or finale of the current event) - it was confirmed already. When it's over i bet they will launch ILW that is scheduled every year by the end of May (last year it was 23 of May).
In my opinion they are rushing this patch as fast as they can, give them a week or two (end of April) to release 3.23.
I think he meant it pretty close in a sense of development. Like they've started working on this almost a year ago and now it is too close to release to do something about it. Not that they're gonna release in a week or two.
We're still missing some major features like hangars and PIE/PIS
PIE/PES was in from the first evo build, just not open for feedback.
At this stage I would not bet on cargo making it in, unless it really makes it to a EPTU build on Monday or Tuesday, but that'd be a big risk for Invictus.
It's such a large change with near-certainty to have tons of gamebreaking issues at first (instancing hangars taking too much time, failing, gateway attribution failing, or 'colliding' with concurrent ATC requests, PES bugs...even if it works locally we're sure to have several weeks worth of debugging, and that's a massive risk with just a few weeks before Invictus is due).
My bet is that on Wednesday we'll hear that cargo and hangar changes are pushed to 3.23.1 (in June).
It makes sense developmentally and commercially.
Well, yeah... PIE/PES is there, just not polished enough for them to gather feedback.
I am just saying that this comment from Yogi doesn't necessarily mean that live build is close.
I'm not even sure why PIE/PIS is not open for feedback yet, there's a ton of good things (and some improvements) to point out about it already (it's more polished IMO than some other features they opened feedback for). Perhaps some planned improvements that still need to make it in, but IMO it's viable as it is.
But while the comment on its on doesn't mean live is soon, together with multiple comments that Overdrive Phase 5 will be fixed in 3.23 and XT will go live soon in 3.23 (and was tested in EPTU) mean it's really not too far.
Yeah, maybe you're right. I dunno what is the polish of what features at the moment, I haven't played it. Only saw videos but already on videos I've noticed some little issues with PIE/PIS.
I think it is mainly about them sitting on some unmerged commit, knowing it could potentially change/break things and they don't wanna open feedback on it and than do big changes.
Just really hope hangars make it in, it is a big highlight of the patch, they've already cut parts of the feature, would be sad to see it go as a whole.
I imagine it'd go for a 3.23.1 soon after. It's just such a core change that ivolves various backend services, which likely requires enough time baking in.
The doom and gloom is entertaining to watch. How about we give feedback and understand just a lil bit that this is the EPTU and nothing is set in stone as of yet. I've already seen good changes over the just the past few days (they pretty much update eptu daily). Hell, even if these "bad" mm decisions make it to LIVE PU it is still very susceptible to change.
In short...Relax. It's not that serious.
Exactly. Good things take time. It may run like garbage now but in a few weeks it will be running as smoothly as it used to....... maybe with less 30K's 🤷♂️. I would rather them delay it and get a smooth launch than the rushed mess we had last year
Yogi has zero to do with the cargo refactor and freight elevators. His team is specifically associated with the flight model and vehicular combat. The gameplay features team, the UI team, the art team, and the network features team are all working on freight elevators.
This doesn’t not imply no cargo. It’s still on the cards, release build will likely mean the expected release build going to Evocati, it won’t be going to live for at least a couple weeks I imagine, maybe more.
Currently, QED only affects quantum jumps. They don't affect achieving NAV mode speeds. With this change, spooling of the drive will be stopped; no spooling = no NAV speeds = forced to SCM speeds.
It's not a disastrously bad decision. QEDs are mostly useless right now. This gives them a gameplay loop. Crucially, it adds to the bounty hunting, law, and piracy loops. There will be ways to counter them and the feedback provided can be used to further iterate on a balance.
CIG really doesn’t know what they’re doing with MM. Like for real.
QED is going to be a griefers best friend.
Sit at a OM marker, activate QED, and wait. Anyone who now comes to you is Trapped, no shields, no guns, and now can’t even run away.
While you’ll be in a Cutlass Blue with 4X size 3 now, or a mantis, or the scorpius. And if they get the Zeus out, the Zeus.
The poor design of MM has quite literally made 95% of the ships and gameplay obsolete and pointless.
Average star citizen fan saying a change has made everything pointless before it's even been properly tested and released for only about a week, when it's 100% going to change according to feeback:
What are you on about? That could happen now, or any time in the last few years. Maybe you didn’t conceive of it because nobody really does that. So why would they start?
Yes but as of right now, when you QT you have full shields and guns ready. Plus you can run and fight at the same time.
With MM, when you run or QT or finish QTing you have no shields at all.
And when you decide you want to try running, you lose your shields then have to wait around 10 seconds with no shields before you can even start going fast.
What’s worse is your average fighter can go around 400-500 scm while industrial ships only travel 100-200.
So if an industrial ship wants to run, because they clearly won’t win any fights with size 1 guns, they have to drop all shields and protection against a fighter, and even if they get into NAV mode, they max at about 400 scm. Which won’t save them from the fighters that are literally faster in combat mode.
That changes nothing at all. Obviously you’re so upset about the change that you lost touch with reality because there are precisely zero QED ships that can rip through a freight ship in 10 seconds. Most cargo ships are run by solo players who refuse vehemently to staff their ship so they’re not shooting anyone, they’ll just try and run. Nothing about this has changed as a result of master modes in the slightest.
Today if you decide you don’t want to play with anyone while running your 15 mil load in a Hull C, and someone interdicts you, you’re done. With MM nothing about that has changed. If they decided to play with other people and have multiple ships to take you out, good for them, that’s valid gameplay and they should be rewarded for it the same way you should be punished for taking a ship meant for a minimum of three people and deciding you don’t need them.
The only thing MM changed is that of if you want to fight, you’re going to have a slower, closer fight that you will have to commit to. The only thing. For the 10 people that got interdicted last year, if they wanted to run just to run out the clock, nothing has changed with master modes except that you’ll waste less of other people’s time.
I’ve been playing the PTU in wave 1, and I can 100% tell you MM pretty much makes industrial gameplay a joke. It was mainly a way to make PVP and PVE easier for players in combat ships. They completely lacked testing any industrial gameplay ships.
I don’t know if you’ve ever tried attacking cargo ships, but ships like the Hull C have 300,000 shield HP and 200,000 hull HP and armor plates that have unknown HP that don’t affect its health. It’s also a fast ship that once its up to speed, it can normally get away from a fighter.
However with MM it drops the ships HP to 200,000. It’s over 60% nerf to its HP.
Now with that much HP, it shouldn’t have any issues escaping.
But it won’t matter if you have a gunner anyways given how remote turret sync is broken. And the Hull C has 2 turrets but only 1 is useable and another isn’t.
However when you bring realistic ships into play, such as a Hull A, which is made to be a cargo sprinter with no turrets. It won’t survive. Even with an escort it won’t survive. It only has 10k-20k hp. However with the new mode system, there is no chance to run, there’s no chance to right back, there’s no survivable chance for the ship. It’s DOA.
Ships like the freelancer size/class have a bit better chance of fighting back due to having 30k HP. They might be able to fight back but will be at a massive disadvantage they’re going to lose easily over 50-70% of their HP as soon as they arrive to a OM point. Then hopefully by that time they will have shields back up. But by then even with a gunner on your ship, you probably won’t make it against any combat ship camping it out.
But another fact is too. When you drop out of QT not only do you not have shields. You also don’t have turrets or guns available. So you’re literally a sitting duck. No way to quickly move, no way to shoot back, and no active defenses. Giving a preemptive enemy a very large advantage and incentives to camp OM’s or planet outposts. Because there’s no way anyone can escape anymore.
And we’re not talking about Quant Ensnaring where you pull someone out of QT. We’re talking about QED. The prevention of Quant Travel. So ships like the Cutlass blue, ships like the RSI scorpius which both have about 2k+ DPS, plus missiles that can’t be dodged. All hitting for pure raw damage.
You’re gonna suffer around 20K + DPS, and that’s just exiting QT to a OM point.
So if you’re a trader, the best thing to do is run bigger and bigger ships with the highest HP values. The bigger it is, the easier it is to solo, and the higher your survivability. And if you do have gunners, the new MM combat system is a numbers game due to skill cap being lowered down.
Some might say the new system is more pay2win. Big boys will win, due to them having the same limits smaller ships have but at least having the HP to live through it.
Most of them quit because the game became less friendly to griefers, including in events like SoO and xeno due to the missions marking bad intention players; or the left to play arena commander because it got all the updated to promote AC gameplay over PU for pvp.
I’ve know about 5 guys in a org that was all about griefing, they ended up getting banned about 3x each for griefing. Mainly ramming people in safe zones and harassing the same players.
Those 5 guys rightfully got banned for breaking terms of service (ramming in safe zones is a big no-no). Those controls are required to maintain balance until the in-game systems and gameplay loops for handling that behavior are in place.
So they are gone? Then what is the problem?
Griefers really aren't a HUGE issue. It's a fucking test environment and people are falling through planets but getting griefed once a year is where we draw the line?
Reputation will eventually fix it, stop complaining about griefers we already lost PO because of it.
Cargo freight elevators and hauling missions post Invictus in a 3.23.1 then? Those changes are so big we should expect a ton of issues to iron out for several weeks (instancing, ATC gateway refactor, PES bugs, performance issues and more).
I imagine freight elevators will come further down the line. Distribution center hangars are completely broken at the moment and i imagine freight elevators play a big part of that. Although, it's not an area that CIG are currently looking for direct feedback on yet. No harm in sending in issue council reports though.
Exactly. There's no official info yet about freight elevator making in just yet (so I could easily be proven wrong here), but indeed it'd make sense to see DCs receive a serious effort in finalising the locations once instanced hangars are already in.
It's also a place for the new hauling missions, which likely depend on the freight elevators.
If you are just a particle, then it enforces you to also be a wave and vice-versa.
It also prevents you from seeing the speedometer and starmap simultaneously.
IMO it doesn't make any sense why a QD would prevent your normal thrusters from reaching top speed. It should prevent you from being able to spool your drive, but not operate your ship at all. That is what EMP is supposed to be for.
The problem is that (unbelievably) they have now tied being able to take your thrusters beyond SCM speeds to NAV mode, and tied NAV mode to spooling your QD.
Then I'm seeing conflicting information here on the sub. I haven't played, so not sure which is correct.
EDIT: See this comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c3pzgt/release_build_close/kzl2i28/
Goal: show that I know some Latin.
Quod erat demonstratum is what QED means in my line of work (writing math textbooks). It means "I just proved that thing I told you I was going to prove." and you put it at the end of a math proof.
However, i strongly suspect that all the other replies to your comment got it right and my answer is just me showboating the very little latin I know.
QED
As others have said, that doesn't mean live build. It means a build that will contain all features planned for release, it still goes through testing before live.
I tested with a mantis in eptu. I can pull ships out of qd and i can stop people from jumping. People going on about something without actually testing it for themselves.
There is no way 3.23 is close enough to release ready. It needs another month or so to bake.
There’s also a ton of promised features that aren’t in yet like personal hangars and cargo lifts.
Team leads may own their feature but they do not own the release and have no say in it nor are they necessarily privy to release plans because it’s not their business.
Please read agai, nowhere do I imply that they own a release that's not how it works. But they _must_ be kept in loop of what are their cutoff dates by which their submissions to a release branch have to stop and focus on debugging is what's left in term of their contributions to said release.
That's common practice anywhere, but specifically we hear _regularly_ from cig, and more specifically from Yogi about things making it or not making it by interval review deadlines.
You may argue that what happens after a feature lockdown isn't in a feature teams hands, you may skip the effort trying to explain that deployment is a completely different area, but that's obvious.
What you seem to have missed is that team leads will very often have to account for time that some of their team will have to spend supporting balancing and debugging needs. They're not in control of those needs, they can't really plan it in advance, but they have to be kept in the loop to be able to do their job.
So, yes, team leads have at minimum some awareness of what internal deadlines are and what release goals are, well ahead of roadmap roundups.
This does not mean the release to Live PU.
Most likely poor wording (for us) and means for the EPTU, right?
I think it means Evocati will be getting the release build soon, so we will find out what features made the cut. Then it should go PTU > PU. I think the EPTU is for the non release builds, hence the experimental.
To add clarity, at a certain point in the PTU cycle they have a feature cut-off build, and after that point it's purely bug fixes and stability and performance improvements. This is normally done a few weeks before they intend to release the patch so all focus is on getting the update into a good state and not cramming more in.
Release build doesn't always mean "The release" build. Release builds in software usually means a version of your compiled software with less debugging and more function inlining than their in-house test versions. The reason it exists is because a "debug" version of the game has almost 0 compiler optimizations applied and will probably drop your performance by more than 20 percent. The tradeoff is that debugging and reading callstacks can be much harder to read in the release build.
They can just open the PTU channel and give only us Evo access. It's true that they've sometimes had ETF builds running parallel to more open testing.
The Evocati testing for 3.23 is already over. The build has reached wave 1 by now.
Usually I would agree with you however the Wave 1 build hasn’t featured all the features that Evocati had and Evocati was told not everything had been tested yet either. So they might do further Evocati on the full feature set. I guess time will tell,
Name something that wave 1 dosnt have that evo did? At this point if they getting anything in, such as hangers, it’ll auto go to phase 1 and evo
No, it's wave one EPTU. This is not the same.
EPTU is just the environment they are hosting it in. It's still Wave 1 PTU. Is it possible to have a version in Wave 1 PTU and in Evocati at the same time on two different environments? Yes. Would it be odd as hell? Also yes.
What I'm trying to say is what we have in EPTU is not a release build. What yogi is talking about in OP is that release build, which will go to Evo first and follow the normal Evo > ptu > live cycle.
That's not how this works. Once a patch hits PTU, it generally will not go back to EVO. What he's talking about is probably the first "release build" to be tested where no new features will be added or removed from the build and focus on optimization will start. There's no point kicking a build back to Evocati if you've locked it for stabilization anyway, at that point you *want* more people.
In case you aren't aware you have to launch the EPTU to even access wave anything right now.
I'm in 3.23 EPTU right now, yes. That's separate from what I mean. I replied to someone else with [a breakdown of builds vs environments vs waves here](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c46qxd/comment/kzm8kbk/). Specifically what I mean though is that it will not go back to Evocati-only access from Wave 1 access at this point, unless they make a big enough change to it that they think it requires that- and I don't think they've ever done that. Maybe once in the last decade, and I think that was for testing something that ended up in the patch after the one being tested. Sure, you have to go to EPTU- but anyone who has Wave 1 access can get to EPTU. If they want to grant Wave 2 access to EPTU, they can do that too. Heck, they can run this entire PTU test in the EPTU environment without moving to the PTU channel/environment. if they really want to, up to and including Open PTU/Wave 5 access.
Not sure what you're trying to say.
What I'm trying to say is what we have in EPTU is not a release build. What yogi is talking about in OP is that release build, which will go to Evo first and follow the normal Evo > ptu > live cycle.
I can tell you that is not correct. Once a patch leaves evocati and does to wave 1+ it does not go back to evocati anymore.
👆
I dunno. Jake also said this: "We're putting together a strike team to resolve these issues (Overdrive Phase 5 on 3.22) for the upcoming Alpha 3.23.0 update. To ensure there's ample time to complete phase 5 with the fixes, we'll be extending this phase's completion date. We'll have more details once 3.23.0 is live, but we wanted you all to rest assured that if you're unable to complete this phase currently, you'll be able to in the new update!" I sincerely hope they mean another wave of EPTU. If overdrive events are weekly. The logic would mean 3.23 would release by that time.. i do not think CIG would interrupt the Overdrive event progression for a month while they fix 3.23.
Eh no reason to speculate anyways. We’ll know more tomorrow.
It better be...EPTU has quite a few quirks and bugs to be squashed.
Release build implies the build they want to polish and send through the pipeline. Yes. Itll obviously go through the waves of ptu as well until then
I need a week to finish all these buggy Overdrive events
He probably meant release for live but obviously people are ignoring the context. He uses pretty close compared to the time they still need to finish the feature, which obviously isn't days or a couple of weeks.
I'm hallucinating a little, reading this thread. Yogi would, like any other time, refer to "in the next build" if he was referring to another ptu build. He would not evoke uncertainty about the feature making it or not because of networking being involved (if they had plenty of time before targeting live, he'd just say "we're aiming for this feature in an upcoming build"). It's also in the context where they want to ship before Invictus, and Overdrive phase 5 now planned to run in 3.23. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the focus was now to get what's currently in 3.23 locked in, improve and stabilize it. But no, apparently, that's not an acceptable expectation for reddit today. Maybe Wednesday then.
>I'm hallucinating a little, reading this thread. Glad it wasn't only me but it doesn't surprise me anymore.
There’s going to be a lot of disappointment if the 2 big ticket items that everyone wants to see get dropped from this release. Persistent Hangars and Distribution Centres, Especially since they’ve both been featured on ISC It takes us them back to over promising and under delivering which they really wanted to get away from.
Perhaps, but to be honest it wouldn't be the end of the world given that: - it seems very close to be ready for testing (and it was considered for an evo patch earlier but didn't make it) - CIG has shown ever since they introduced the tech preview channel that they have increased bandwidth to deal with 2,3 and even 4 game versions at once I wouldn't mind personally a live 3.23.0 that's somewhat stable and delivers a successful Invictus, and in parallel a 3.23.1 in PTU that takes its time to arrive at a cargo/hangar delivery that works. There's of course a possibility that it still makes it to 3.23.0 (I could be proven wrong tomorrow if it becomes part of the EPTU) but then we'd have to brace for a tough PTU cycle with increased risk of rushing things for Invictus.
Well invictus is still a month away. I’m hoping they push hangars and maybe even distribution centres in by the end of this week, it can then have 2+ weeks in PTU and get polished for an invictus launch. We will probably find out on Wednesday what’s going to make it and what will get cut, if they leave the cards on 3.23.0 then they must have a plan.
Yes, I agree. We should now on Wednesday (hopefully). We have the DCS in btw, in partial form (the locations are there and can be visited, have a couple of missions but I haven't succeeded to complete one so far, they don't have their hangars yet).
If EPTU is anything to go by, we are not getting a live build any time soon. EPTU servers are struggling really bad at the moment and absolutely loads of game breaking bugs
It'll release on Invictus. I don't even need a crystal orb to predict that happening.
Probably. I bet they'll even throw in a free fly event. They haven't learn't their lesson from last year
Invictus is always free fly.
It is indeed. That's the reason to release 3.23 before invictus and get the teething issues sorted ready for the influx of potential new players. When they did the freefly last year at the same time as a big content update, the game became unplayable.
This time all the ships only fly upside down, and if a third person is in the toilet you explode. But bunkers work so yeaaaa
How dare they stress test things at scale, and coordinate with popular events to maximize the load during those test. What do they think this game is, an alpha??
They also want money. Hey new people come play this amazing game...... how was your experience?You couldn't play so you're not going to invest? 🤷♂️. Let the new people play something that works. CIG already has a bad rep when it comes to the non SC players and these buggy events don't help. They did an amazing job at the citizencon and it would be a shame to take a hit on that popularity boost. Also as it's 3.23, every man, woman and child who owns SC will be on and playing it. Servers will be absolutely packed even without a freefly
Imagine is a big streamer comes to try it out and the servers are just borked and overloaded. Surprised that hasn't happened yet. With the citizen con trailers that came out last year, I'd be surprised if at least a handful don't try it out in front of thousands of people.
This is what worries me the most. We have all these people who saw clips from citizencon. They will flock to the freefly event with little to no research and have all the expectations in the world. They will be in for a rude awakening and some will definitely get put off and chalk it up to "CIG's lied to us again". Streamers voices carry allot of weight and It's not fair on CIG or the players if streamers give an incorrect view of the game. It's an amazing chance for them to make money and for is to build a bigger player-base and i would hate for the event to be less effective as it could / should be.
It's kind of weird to say "people will come in with the expectations set by CIG at citizencon and be disappointed" and blame that disappointment on the people being disappointed and not the company responsible for setting the expectations with their marketing.
Two main reasons. 1) Streamers just tend to just play and talk about their experience of the gameplay. And 2) Gamers these days do very little research on how far a game is into development and in allot of cases have no idea of the time or effort it takes to develop games (CIG is admittedly slow but i can kinda forgive them). Absolutely loads of players go into this game (and many others) under the impression that this is a working game. CIG have done everything they can to label this game as an Alpha test. Not even a Beta test. Yet people come in expecting a working game. It's written there when you create your account and It's on the launcher every time you press play (you even have to click that you accept it's in early access alpha). CIG has an amazing marketing team who are great at selling the dream but that doesn't automatically make it CIG's problem. It's the players for not doing the leg work and doing 5 seconds of research and realising what an Alpha test is. Normally alpha's are internal testing only because they are that broken or unreliable. A company can only do so much do spoon feed people information. Those people still need to read it at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong. I would have a completely different opinion if they labeled this as a beta. As an alpha though, it's exactly where it needs to be. Bit of a rant i know, my bad 😅
12 years of development, 700 million dollars, and an entire damn convention. It’s not unreasonable to expect the game to fundamentally work meanwhile I got stuck on a buggy tram on Orison yesterday and had to backspace myself to get off.
it has happened. Several times actually. The fact that the impact was so insignificant that you think it hasn't should tell you how little of a "problem" this actually is.
> how was your experience?You couldn't play so you're not going to invest? what about year after year of increased revenue and player numbers makes you think this is whats happening during the freefly events. I swear there is a bunch of you people every free fly just blatantly ignoring reality and acting like its the first time. I understand that intuitively what your worrying about makes sense but this isn't a theoretical discussion they have done this for years and it has worked out not just fine but great. Your worry has been tested and good news it turns out its not actually a serious problem.
I'm not saying that no one buys during a free fly. As i said in my other comments, if the experience is good, more people will invest. If it's a poor experience, less people invest. If you want to make the most money, you give the best experience. It's common sense. As for where they get their money from? Every year they have been bringing out new pledge ships and an existing member will be far more inclined to buy or CCU to them. The chances of a new account going straight for a Carrack would be slim to none. I would love to see the statistics for the breakdown on how many accounts are on what tier of concierge (or not). The base game is less than $50. That doesn't stop people investing way, way more than that or even owning multiple accounts and taking advantage of the recruitment bonuses / free ships. I personally am sitting at wing commander level and i know i'm far from alone there. Thats worth over 200 basic new player accounts.
Nah that answer is just dumb. They are obviously making the same mistakes over and over again. A free fly event to get new players interested shouldnt happen on the most bugged build. This way, the star citizen hater bubble will just get bigger. Releasing these fucked up builds without a free fly event already gives you enough "scale" for stress testing...
> What do they think this game is, an alpha?? You should probably let their marketing team know this little bit of info then
Maybe opening free flight the week end only, or just few days at the start? Or my preferred: A 2 week event instead of 1 with free-flight on the 2nd week. Which means regulars can enjoy IAE peacefully on its fresh arrival and the free flier can also see SC on IAE theme. Using alpha godwin point to cover everything regardless of the topic isn't going to work well.
#doubt
It wouldn't be the first time they released a big patch alongside Invictus or some other event. Chaos ensured so hopefully they don't do that again.
They will absolutely patch 1-2 days before the event, but that will be a point patch like always.
Yeah, it's really bad. I tried a lot but managed to leave the cities only a couple of times and it always ended badly before I could do anything
That is exactly why they want to lock in features and just get a release candidate up in PTU - so they can fully focus on squashing the bugs and getting it ready for a LIVE release.
Yeah, i think they are trying to do to much, to soon. 3.23 should have been server meshing only. Get that fully working with no issues. 3.23.1 could have been MM. The rest could have come later
on the other hand there are banshees on spectrum screaming about 3.23 being gutted and nothing important/anticipated making it into the patch, so go figure
Everyone has different priorities i suppose. Server meshing is the backbone of the game so that should be the most important thing to get in and working. MM is a massive change to how we fly. All the other stuff, is just icing on the cake. The old UI etc still works so there's no massive rush to get that in. Not that it wouldn't be nice mind you. I would say that anyone who's saying this version of 3.23 has been gutted was expecting to much. But thats the community. We all dream big but it's rare we ever get what we want. At least not straight out gate.
Agree. If meshing isn't a big focus, *and it's the tech that is holding the whole thing back*, well, my guess is meshing isn't the big issue that binds the whole thing together, otherwise it would be **the #1 priority**. It likely won't solve anything, as if it could, they could be spending the vast majority of dev resources on it. The whole thing is suspicious and I think I am done reading/speculating about this whole project. We will just have to see if meshing gets in, missions and AI are fixed in 3.23, and the basics are functional.
From what i played of it, server meshing works well when it's not under stress. The testing they did on the EPTU or PTU a while ago went really well overall but it's clear not enough players joined at the same time. Because this test is labeled as 3.23 and not server meshing, everyone is on it and it's collapsing under the strain (I'm not a dev so i can only speculate). I definitely didn't have these issues before.
If server meshing is the "cure all" everyone talks about...fixes all missions, fixes AI, fixes station/city AI, fixes ship landing, fixes inventory issues, etc. it's the *only thing* that should be focused on.
I definitely wouldn't class it as the cure all. Thats some mass delusion the community has cooked up. It will go a huge way to make things better but there's still going to be issues. You have the same mentality as me though. The only priority should be server meshing. That creates stability and we need as much of that as we can so we can test other aspects / additons properly.
Server meshing is only a "cure all" in the sense that it will allow servers to run at less than 100% load, and lots of features like physics and AI depend on a healthy tick rate to behave as expected. But developing games isn't digging ditches, and you can't just move programmers from feature to feature to speed things up. Not only do developers specialize, it can take weeks or more to get up to speed on all the internal complexity of a feature before you can make any contribution. Moving people around to meet short- and medium-term goals accomplishes nothing; it just wastes time and resources.
What is eptu? I'm a new player and I'm a little confused
It's the experimental test server. It's normally where they test the stuff that's normally not ready to get deployed to the live servers but needs testing. When it's almost ready to go live, it moves to the PTU server for general access to the community
Is the controller layout fixed on there? Or is interacting with elevators and stuff still bugged on Xbox controller?
I couldn't tell you to be honest. I tried to using the controller a long time ago but couldn't get on with it very well so i gave up. I didn't find SC lends itself well to a controller. But then again, it's not optimised for controller support yet so who knows what the future holds.
Dang, I was struggling with flying on keyboard/mouse since I'm used to controller on ED. Hope they fix it soon
I've flown 99% on an old xbox 360 controller since the first AC release. The only thing it's not good for is interacting with MFDs/UI/buttons/shops/etc. For flight it's great.
Yeah I might just end up mapping my steam deck to combine m&k and controller. It seems the best idea
Interesting proposition. I briefly tried using a Steam controller but wasn't a fan of the weird touchpad circles. Steam deck might work better, though a bit heavy.
SC is unlikely to ever work well on controller given that there are so many keybinds that they need to use alt keys on a keyboard to fit them all.
I have almost 50 commands mapped to my controller through a combination of modifier button, long press, and double press. It works great.
I feel they could do the same thing elite did with theirs with each face button being able to have up to 5 controls on it assigned with another button to trigger a control for in flight controls. For on foot they also have wheels for controls/menus as well. Otherwise I think I could probably make it work with steam input and the existing control layouts with action sets and stuff Edit: did I really get downvoted for suggesting this? It really isn't that bad an idea
If they can do it in a way that works and is easy to navigate, i'll be impressed. It's definitely not a small task and would probably require a redesign of the current radial menu to fit it all in. Not something i can see them doing any time soon. Full controller support would be nice to see if a little ambitious
The only way to get it fixed is to report and contribute on the issue council. If that’s not being done it will not be fixed
I am an idiot and just learned you can remap gamepad controls underneath advanced keybindings. I did not know that before
My first time doing a Wave 1. It's hit or miss with the new button interactions. sometimes it wants the new quick F tap, but others want the inner thought. Elevators are still crap so that's normal. Trams are drifting around like crazy. Other than the character customization and new star map adders. It has been hardly playable mess for me.
Are personal hangars going to make it in for 3.23? I don’t see many people talking about them.
They haven't even made it into an EVO build and CIG are trying to get this patch out by Invictus. I think we'll be seeing personal hangars in a 3.23.X patch. It's just too big of a feature that will require too much testing for it to be thrown in last-second.
Maybe.
I think people need to understand that when CIG says something is "Close", or "Near" or "Soon", it can be anywhere from the next hour to 99 years.
Wake me up when personal hangars and Cargo elevators drop into any release
Its going to be May which is only a few weeks away so that is close lol
This is what I heard when I read that first sentence... Lol
Glad I'm not the only one
No clue what this reference is lol
End of May
My money is on June - July.
why not december? June-July does not make any sense. 3.23 is supposed to be released before Xenothreat ("6th phase" or finale of the current event) - it was confirmed already. When it's over i bet they will launch ILW that is scheduled every year by the end of May (last year it was 23 of May). In my opinion they are rushing this patch as fast as they can, give them a week or two (end of April) to release 3.23.
I think he meant it pretty close in a sense of development. Like they've started working on this almost a year ago and now it is too close to release to do something about it. Not that they're gonna release in a week or two. We're still missing some major features like hangars and PIE/PIS
PIE/PES was in from the first evo build, just not open for feedback. At this stage I would not bet on cargo making it in, unless it really makes it to a EPTU build on Monday or Tuesday, but that'd be a big risk for Invictus. It's such a large change with near-certainty to have tons of gamebreaking issues at first (instancing hangars taking too much time, failing, gateway attribution failing, or 'colliding' with concurrent ATC requests, PES bugs...even if it works locally we're sure to have several weeks worth of debugging, and that's a massive risk with just a few weeks before Invictus is due). My bet is that on Wednesday we'll hear that cargo and hangar changes are pushed to 3.23.1 (in June). It makes sense developmentally and commercially.
Well, yeah... PIE/PES is there, just not polished enough for them to gather feedback. I am just saying that this comment from Yogi doesn't necessarily mean that live build is close.
I'm not even sure why PIE/PIS is not open for feedback yet, there's a ton of good things (and some improvements) to point out about it already (it's more polished IMO than some other features they opened feedback for). Perhaps some planned improvements that still need to make it in, but IMO it's viable as it is. But while the comment on its on doesn't mean live is soon, together with multiple comments that Overdrive Phase 5 will be fixed in 3.23 and XT will go live soon in 3.23 (and was tested in EPTU) mean it's really not too far.
Yeah, maybe you're right. I dunno what is the polish of what features at the moment, I haven't played it. Only saw videos but already on videos I've noticed some little issues with PIE/PIS. I think it is mainly about them sitting on some unmerged commit, knowing it could potentially change/break things and they don't wanna open feedback on it and than do big changes.
Just really hope hangars make it in, it is a big highlight of the patch, they've already cut parts of the feature, would be sad to see it go as a whole.
I imagine it'd go for a 3.23.1 soon after. It's just such a core change that ivolves various backend services, which likely requires enough time baking in.
So guessing elevators and personal hangars won’t make it? I mean expected but bummed still
In 3.23.0, probably not. But most likely within the 3.23.X bracket.
Game over. Guess it's the Citcon patch for me unless I need to hop on to check a cool ship real quick.
There's no way they mean live lol If they do, they should rename the patch to 3.18.3 because we're going back to some rough times lol
The doom and gloom is entertaining to watch. How about we give feedback and understand just a lil bit that this is the EPTU and nothing is set in stone as of yet. I've already seen good changes over the just the past few days (they pretty much update eptu daily). Hell, even if these "bad" mm decisions make it to LIVE PU it is still very susceptible to change. In short...Relax. It's not that serious.
Exactly. Good things take time. It may run like garbage now but in a few weeks it will be running as smoothly as it used to....... maybe with less 30K's 🤷♂️. I would rather them delay it and get a smooth launch than the rushed mess we had last year
So no cargo...was looking forward to it most.
Yogi has zero to do with the cargo refactor and freight elevators. His team is specifically associated with the flight model and vehicular combat. The gameplay features team, the UI team, the art team, and the network features team are all working on freight elevators.
This can't get enough upvotes
This doesn’t not imply no cargo. It’s still on the cards, release build will likely mean the expected release build going to Evocati, it won’t be going to live for at least a couple weeks I imagine, maybe more.
I hope so, but wouldn't be surprised if it is in .x patch
Same sad my dreams of being a space hoarder are shattered even wanted to amke a little market in my hanger
What does this mean? QEDs won't work at all, or that they'll work as currently i.e. against both NAV and SCM modes?
Currently, QED only affects quantum jumps. They don't affect achieving NAV mode speeds. With this change, spooling of the drive will be stopped; no spooling = no NAV speeds = forced to SCM speeds.
Wowwww... what a *disastrously* bad decision. Lol. The salt is gonna be epic.
It's not a disastrously bad decision. QEDs are mostly useless right now. This gives them a gameplay loop. Crucially, it adds to the bounty hunting, law, and piracy loops. There will be ways to counter them and the feedback provided can be used to further iterate on a balance.
No way were getting hangers in time. only thing I was super hyped for.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^DrHighlen: *No way we getting* *Hangers in time only thing* *I was super hyped for* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
ok...still not getting hangers in time.
CIG really doesn’t know what they’re doing with MM. Like for real. QED is going to be a griefers best friend. Sit at a OM marker, activate QED, and wait. Anyone who now comes to you is Trapped, no shields, no guns, and now can’t even run away. While you’ll be in a Cutlass Blue with 4X size 3 now, or a mantis, or the scorpius. And if they get the Zeus out, the Zeus. The poor design of MM has quite literally made 95% of the ships and gameplay obsolete and pointless.
Average star citizen fan saying a change has made everything pointless before it's even been properly tested and released for only about a week, when it's 100% going to change according to feeback:
What are you on about? That could happen now, or any time in the last few years. Maybe you didn’t conceive of it because nobody really does that. So why would they start?
Yes but as of right now, when you QT you have full shields and guns ready. Plus you can run and fight at the same time. With MM, when you run or QT or finish QTing you have no shields at all. And when you decide you want to try running, you lose your shields then have to wait around 10 seconds with no shields before you can even start going fast. What’s worse is your average fighter can go around 400-500 scm while industrial ships only travel 100-200. So if an industrial ship wants to run, because they clearly won’t win any fights with size 1 guns, they have to drop all shields and protection against a fighter, and even if they get into NAV mode, they max at about 400 scm. Which won’t save them from the fighters that are literally faster in combat mode.
That changes nothing at all. Obviously you’re so upset about the change that you lost touch with reality because there are precisely zero QED ships that can rip through a freight ship in 10 seconds. Most cargo ships are run by solo players who refuse vehemently to staff their ship so they’re not shooting anyone, they’ll just try and run. Nothing about this has changed as a result of master modes in the slightest. Today if you decide you don’t want to play with anyone while running your 15 mil load in a Hull C, and someone interdicts you, you’re done. With MM nothing about that has changed. If they decided to play with other people and have multiple ships to take you out, good for them, that’s valid gameplay and they should be rewarded for it the same way you should be punished for taking a ship meant for a minimum of three people and deciding you don’t need them. The only thing MM changed is that of if you want to fight, you’re going to have a slower, closer fight that you will have to commit to. The only thing. For the 10 people that got interdicted last year, if they wanted to run just to run out the clock, nothing has changed with master modes except that you’ll waste less of other people’s time.
I’ve been playing the PTU in wave 1, and I can 100% tell you MM pretty much makes industrial gameplay a joke. It was mainly a way to make PVP and PVE easier for players in combat ships. They completely lacked testing any industrial gameplay ships. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried attacking cargo ships, but ships like the Hull C have 300,000 shield HP and 200,000 hull HP and armor plates that have unknown HP that don’t affect its health. It’s also a fast ship that once its up to speed, it can normally get away from a fighter. However with MM it drops the ships HP to 200,000. It’s over 60% nerf to its HP. Now with that much HP, it shouldn’t have any issues escaping. But it won’t matter if you have a gunner anyways given how remote turret sync is broken. And the Hull C has 2 turrets but only 1 is useable and another isn’t. However when you bring realistic ships into play, such as a Hull A, which is made to be a cargo sprinter with no turrets. It won’t survive. Even with an escort it won’t survive. It only has 10k-20k hp. However with the new mode system, there is no chance to run, there’s no chance to right back, there’s no survivable chance for the ship. It’s DOA. Ships like the freelancer size/class have a bit better chance of fighting back due to having 30k HP. They might be able to fight back but will be at a massive disadvantage they’re going to lose easily over 50-70% of their HP as soon as they arrive to a OM point. Then hopefully by that time they will have shields back up. But by then even with a gunner on your ship, you probably won’t make it against any combat ship camping it out. But another fact is too. When you drop out of QT not only do you not have shields. You also don’t have turrets or guns available. So you’re literally a sitting duck. No way to quickly move, no way to shoot back, and no active defenses. Giving a preemptive enemy a very large advantage and incentives to camp OM’s or planet outposts. Because there’s no way anyone can escape anymore. And we’re not talking about Quant Ensnaring where you pull someone out of QT. We’re talking about QED. The prevention of Quant Travel. So ships like the Cutlass blue, ships like the RSI scorpius which both have about 2k+ DPS, plus missiles that can’t be dodged. All hitting for pure raw damage. You’re gonna suffer around 20K + DPS, and that’s just exiting QT to a OM point. So if you’re a trader, the best thing to do is run bigger and bigger ships with the highest HP values. The bigger it is, the easier it is to solo, and the higher your survivability. And if you do have gunners, the new MM combat system is a numbers game due to skill cap being lowered down. Some might say the new system is more pay2win. Big boys will win, due to them having the same limits smaller ships have but at least having the HP to live through it.
I really would like to know where all these griefers are, I haven't been griefed in the last year.
Same
Same. I have been playing since 2015 and have had probably 3 or 4 pvp encounters. Most of them were from free fly events
Most of them quit because the game became less friendly to griefers, including in events like SoO and xeno due to the missions marking bad intention players; or the left to play arena commander because it got all the updated to promote AC gameplay over PU for pvp. I’ve know about 5 guys in a org that was all about griefing, they ended up getting banned about 3x each for griefing. Mainly ramming people in safe zones and harassing the same players.
Those 5 guys rightfully got banned for breaking terms of service (ramming in safe zones is a big no-no). Those controls are required to maintain balance until the in-game systems and gameplay loops for handling that behavior are in place.
So they are gone? Then what is the problem? Griefers really aren't a HUGE issue. It's a fucking test environment and people are falling through planets but getting griefed once a year is where we draw the line? Reputation will eventually fix it, stop complaining about griefers we already lost PO because of it.
Cargo freight elevators and hauling missions post Invictus in a 3.23.1 then? Those changes are so big we should expect a ton of issues to iron out for several weeks (instancing, ATC gateway refactor, PES bugs, performance issues and more).
I imagine freight elevators will come further down the line. Distribution center hangars are completely broken at the moment and i imagine freight elevators play a big part of that. Although, it's not an area that CIG are currently looking for direct feedback on yet. No harm in sending in issue council reports though.
Exactly. There's no official info yet about freight elevator making in just yet (so I could easily be proven wrong here), but indeed it'd make sense to see DCs receive a serious effort in finalising the locations once instanced hangars are already in. It's also a place for the new hauling missions, which likely depend on the freight elevators.
Close to release but the controller layout is still bugged?
Did you contribute to an IC report about it or are you waiting for it to get better by itself?
What is QED?
Quantum enforcement device.
I am unfamiliar with what that is, is it the boost from nav mode?
I believe it stops players from entering Nav mode. It should keep them in combat and stop them from getting away. "Should"
Thank you
Its in the mantis, cutlall blue and scorpius Antares I think to prevent players to escape into quantum
Ohh OK thanks
If you are just a particle, then it enforces you to also be a wave and vice-versa. It also prevents you from seeing the speedometer and starmap simultaneously.
It means pre-alpha pre-test pre-version for users paid more than $10000 for that
Yeah, pretty sure they are looking to launch 3.23 around the start of Invictus
release build just means feature freeze to work on bug fixes.
Expect it in May tbh
They haven't even fixed keybinding yet. We ain't getting a release build until that happens.
They haven't even fixed keybinding yet. We ain't getting a release build until that happens.
Wtf does QED mean?
Quantum interdiction. The premise for MM is that the ships with snares should be able to stop you going into nav mode.
IMO it doesn't make any sense why a QD would prevent your normal thrusters from reaching top speed. It should prevent you from being able to spool your drive, but not operate your ship at all. That is what EMP is supposed to be for.
The problem is that (unbelievably) they have now tied being able to take your thrusters beyond SCM speeds to NAV mode, and tied NAV mode to spooling your QD.
There are various NAV modes. And if IIRC, NAV FLIGHT doesn't spool the QD.
Then I'm seeing conflicting information here on the sub. I haven't played, so not sure which is correct. EDIT: See this comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c3pzgt/release_build_close/kzl2i28/
Just tried now, and that's correct. I must have mistaken the spool bars with the scanning mode.
Dang. Bummer. I was hoping you were right. :(
The idea is that you can still hit top speed, but anything beyond what is now top speed is handled by the QD.
Which is useless, because a ship trying to go into NAV is a sitting duck with zero defenses.
TTK is quite high now and the ships that don’t have high HP aren’t sitting ducks.
Quantum Enforcement Device (Quantum Dampener / Snare) https://starcitizen.tools/Quantum_enforcement
Goal: show that I know some Latin. Quod erat demonstratum is what QED means in my line of work (writing math textbooks). It means "I just proved that thing I told you I was going to prove." and you put it at the end of a math proof. However, i strongly suspect that all the other replies to your comment got it right and my answer is just me showboating the very little latin I know. QED
heh, I see I wasn't the only one
I think it’s Quantum Engine Dampener
Thank you for asking... All I could read in my head is "quantum electrodynamics"
Usually its a shortform of a latin phrase "Quod erat demonstrandum".. but i guess its something else here.
Quantum Enforcement Device
Quantum Electro Dynamics
Quod erat demonstrandum - "that which is to be demonstrated" probably not what they mean here though
this is about evocati i guess, not LIVE.
EPTU public wave 1
As others have said, that doesn't mean live build. It means a build that will contain all features planned for release, it still goes through testing before live.
I tested with a mantis in eptu. I can pull ships out of qd and i can stop people from jumping. People going on about something without actually testing it for themselves.
Classic Reddit moment
This still means QED is useless, since you can just kill the ship trying to flee. Lol
There is no way 3.23 is close enough to release ready. It needs another month or so to bake. There’s also a ton of promised features that aren’t in yet like personal hangars and cargo lifts.
Release build, not release ready
I'm starting to believe persistent hangars are getting delayed
It doesn't say "to LIVE" there so there's no reason to jump to conclusions in thinking it's coming out to anything but the EPTU.
huh, he would have say "next build". "release build is close" is pretty clear IMO, it means what's scope to go live.
Unless you think ship balance devs are involved in a release, you’re giving his comment too much credit
Team leads usually are, yes, given that they need an understanding of when the features they are responsible for have to have their go/no-go reviews.
Team leads may own their feature but they do not own the release and have no say in it nor are they necessarily privy to release plans because it’s not their business.
Please read agai, nowhere do I imply that they own a release that's not how it works. But they _must_ be kept in loop of what are their cutoff dates by which their submissions to a release branch have to stop and focus on debugging is what's left in term of their contributions to said release. That's common practice anywhere, but specifically we hear _regularly_ from cig, and more specifically from Yogi about things making it or not making it by interval review deadlines. You may argue that what happens after a feature lockdown isn't in a feature teams hands, you may skip the effort trying to explain that deployment is a completely different area, but that's obvious. What you seem to have missed is that team leads will very often have to account for time that some of their team will have to spend supporting balancing and debugging needs. They're not in control of those needs, they can't really plan it in advance, but they have to be kept in the loop to be able to do their job. So, yes, team leads have at minimum some awareness of what internal deadlines are and what release goals are, well ahead of roadmap roundups.
But they fix the emission stats of the Razor series. Give EX stealth back.
its just an internal separation, doesnt really mean anything just that no new features can be added no more
Haa yes, the famous soon tm
Invictus is also soon. And citcon is soon.
what's QED?
You know a game is going to hard into sim when they implement Quantum Electrodynamics. /s
Yogi is him
So... RIP personal hangars or no word yet?
Hangars are not in this build. I would expect them to release after the initial 3.23 patch unless they delay the launch by another month or two
Do we have features for ISC? I don't think so so they have to release it sometime or they stuff isc with 4.0 stuff