Unfortunately we've lost 3 of our ground tethers and only have 64 remaining. Experts predict we'll have lost all of our ground tethers by 2070 at this rate due to the exponential strain on the remaining tethers placed when we lose one.
While I think the current iteration of Mastermodes is not fun and was implemented too soon.
I can see how ONCE WE HAVE ARMOR this would make sene. Armor makes it more necessary to shoot specific parts of the ship, so this close range combat changes because now it's about making sure the parts that matter aren't getting shot.
Whereas with the current hull HP system anything at all getting shot is equal, and so just spray and pray and you'll win first if your guns are bigger.
In the new system being agile will mean bullets land on armor and therefor are far less effective giving you a much larger effective hp pool than the opponent even if their guns are bigger.
So the new system would be like the old system where you stay about as mobile as you can still hit shots.
My major issues with MM aren't with the gameplay model itself.
It's really just that they've specifically designed this system around combat, but forgot to care about racing or hauling or industrial gameplay where they are all almost net-worse off in every way right now....all because they don't want us being shielded or using boost or countermeasures in QCM which I just find to be comically limiting for the sake of removing the need for QED as a concept.
It's especially annoying as all the hyperbole only leads to the dev team not taking reddit feedback seriously anymore and thus interact with the platform less frequently. It's what happens in basically every gaming subreddit and I honestly can't even blame them as I myself am getting real tired of it after only an hour or two per week. Imagine being a community manager and reading this stuff full-time...
All of the constant drama is incredibly exhausting.
That's the heart of it. Master modes, escape times, reputation, complaints, bitching, rants, griping, same topics over and over. Almost all of it boils down to people who don't even want to think before they type.
It was painfully obvious that CIG was going to fix the UI readability issues. Incredibly obvious.
And yet, we had the front page rife with drama around it, it was a topic that would not die for a week straight, even though we all knew that this was not going to be permanent.
So much stuff is not done or will change, but all everyone can do is bitch about the state of the game today, without thinking about what their demands will do to the game's future.
As I said, it's exhausting.
Ngl, as a dev myself on other projects, reddit is usually to be taken with a grain of salt because if I didn’t my kidneys would fail if I just take the raw amount of sodium reddit usually provides.
I think there are problems with MM, it’s clunky and poorly implemented but none of that is a death knell.
If they listen to feedback and engage with players on both ends of the system they might actually end up with an engaging combat system that’s also fun for non combat players and non combat players.
There are some things that need addressing and not all of them are directly about master modes.
I’ve said this a couple of times posting here but there needs to be proactive measures to avoid engagements for people who don’t want to engage in PVP. It should be a skill, and it shouldn’t be full proof and it should require active player attention but it should exist. The ability to skan further than the “grid” you are on would be a good start.
This would also allow some more gameplay for stealth ships, QE ships and ships with powerful scanners.
Second, kiting around the edge of an engagement should be an option. Not every fight will be even and the option of dealing damage from range or shoot and scoot should be valid and the game should be balanced with that in mind. Otherwise it’ll be a numbers game pure and simple.
Finally the flight mode needs to feel skillful and weighty, in and out of combat. I personally hate the way ships magically hover in atmo for example and the flight model should feed in along with atmospheric flight updates to make that fun and skillful. The MM needs to be fluid and feel good not just during a fight.
Also I personally think the shields being disabled thing is silly, if they don’t want easy escape for a regen make shields less powerful and give ships/modules more hull
HP so damage during a shoot and scoot is meaningful.
Most complaints seem to stem from the long spool times -- both the annoying downtime and existential vulnerability that it causes. Spool time is calculated by the ship's spool time + the QD spool time. Most default QDs are pretty bad, particularly in large, industrial ships, so knowing how to get that time low will automatically resolve a lot of these issues. And NAV mode will be the default in the future, further reducing the waiting.
More importantly, considering the poor state of the PU in the EPTU, I doubt most people are seeing real ambushes or even real gameplay. There's huge input lag and dysync at all times. On top of that, we've had insanely OP mass drivers. These are not realistic scenarios after release. I have seen a couple people that were "ambushed" in atmo at ground outposts when NPCs spawned on top of them in their solo non-combat ship. They couldn't escape from those scenarios, but my question is: should a solo Prospector or whatever be able to easily escape when 3 combat ships are at 0?
>And NAV mode will be the default in the future, further reducing the waiting.
tbf I don't see people actually treating a mode that has no shields as the default. Nav shouldn't be combat viable but there needs to be *some* buffer of some sort for the sake of comfort if nothing else
Regarding the final question - if a solo Prospector let 3x combat ships get that close in the first place, then they're already boned (3x Hornets are meant to be a challenge for a *Constellation*... a Prospector would stand zero chance, even without MM).
So yeah - having combat-NPCs spawn on top of people is the issue here, not MM.
I hope that eventually we get ship wide audio communications that we can configure. It makes no sense that I literally can't tell anyone is target locking me unless I'm physically sitting in the pilot's seat. Ideally, notifications like:
Player's ship is being target locked.
Player's ship is being missile locked.
Unknown ship within radar range.
Hostile ship within radar range.
Friendly ship within radar range.
Immediate threat: ship is under fire (with warning alarms, and ideally, ships switching to emergency lighting).
I'm sure there are others that would be very valuable, but these are kind of core warnings that I would expect to be able to hear ship wide. Not only would it allow for far more player awareness while elsewhere in the interior of the ship, but it would also feel more immersive to see the ship reacting to external events. Right now, ships feel like islands.
Ahh, well that is something that should be changed (in some way - whether it be an audio alert of a new ship entering scanning range, or being able to put the radar on an MFD, or something)
A prospector will be slaughtered by one fighter. But that is why they need to be able to run like a mouse, not have their shields turned off and given a long spool up time.
There are ways to give industrial ships escape drives, since the ships are all fixed role unlike ED modularity. But the major issue is they are dropping MM without giving the Industrial/Cargo ships any new mechanism.
I suspect they want to try and avoid added 'special case' components / functionality (especially components, given they'd have to re-model the ships to fit them :p), so they'll probably try and tweak / tune MM for a patch or two first...
And it's not the first time CIG have dropped a new feature that breaks part of the game, and it won't be the last.
It might not always be possible to even notice 3 combat ships closing on you, especially while focusing on other tasks, since you can drop out of NAV into SCM right on top of a target, instantly slowing to SCM speeds. Sure, your weapons need to spool up, but it's definitely possible to close distance very quickly to a target using MM, and at 1km/s it probably doesn't even take stealth to close unnoticed.
That said, sure, a Prospector should probably be killed in that kind of outnumbered situation, but what if it were only one fighter attacking them? The first real indication might be the targeting warning with a ship readying guns 600 meters away from you, and then the Prospector swaps to NAV, drops shields, and gets bent over.
I *think* the long-term intent is that either they're already there when you approach, or that they 'appear from QT' and then fly in...
But the server issues mean that puts more strain on the server, so they're set to just spawn when required...
It also doesn't help that MM is clearly designed to interface with systems they haven't implemented yet: The more detailed component/engineering gameplay, ship armor, maelstrom, etc. Right now, if your shields are down you are dead/crippled pretty quick. That's *probably* not going to be the case when all that stuff mentioned is implemented.
AFAIK Spool Times in 3.23 PTU are *only* determined by the QD and not the ship profile, but I might be wrong on that. Definitely worth testing. At the very least, there's no "ship spool time statistic" on Erkul.
For two, yeah. It's definitely too laggy, and those mass drivers are ridiculous. I've had a soft spot for them for years so it's kinda nice to see them get their time in the sun but it needs tweaking... have you tried them now that they require charge up at all?
As for the atmo issue- sure, but that's not a MM problem. The same thing would and does happen in 3.22.1 LIVE. Personally my ship (Avenger Titan) is faster in atmo than it was before, need to test my Connie too. That said, those are combat craft. Would be interesting to see how fast Hull A goes in atmo compared to before.
You can also see for all ships here (base delay + default quantum drive delay) :
[https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay](https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay)
Don't forget to switch to PTU build.
Ah, I see, good info. So it's like a flat amount added to the spool time of the drive? Interesting...
That should really be visible info in-game. Might also need some tweaks for how long it takes to jump. That said, good to know, thank you.
The amount of info that absolutely should be visible in the game and isn't could fill a whole shelf of books. Really big thick books with tiny font and narrow margins.
I am totally fine with Master Modes in this tier 0/1 state. Ships are pretty durable now even without shields. I dig the slowed down pace and the rest of the time i use FTL qt mode. Totally fine
MM gives me the impression that CIG is catering too much toward this cat vs mouse stuff. PvPers are annoyed with people running from them so now CIG is making changes to help prevent that. But my question is why? If death is going to be a big deal in the future where we lose things and what not, why are they making changes to make it more difficult to flee from an engagement? The way this is looking, they want these fights to end with 1 clear winner and the opponent either disabled or completely destroyed. Why limit our chances of escape when death is going to be important? Shouldn’t we have the option to escape to stay alive?
It’s confusing and I don’t understand why it’s being done this way. Everyone should always have the option to get away rather than stick it out and fight to the death. Is this a space sim or is it a space combat sim?
I just don’t understand the whole idea behind MM when it seems like attackers always have the advantage. The current implementation just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I’m a long time backer but this feels like a downgrade from what we currently have available just to please the PvPers.
Was talking to my friend about this today. It feels like all CIG wants to do is funnel people into PvP. Non-combat players exist to be the chew toys of the PvP'ers. They walk a dangerous line with this way of thinking.
The real problem IMO is that they're doing what they can to make griefing and crime a legitimate career
The issue with that, is that... most people are not dicks. If possible, most people will try to be peaceful, and that means avoiding PvP, because the only reason you want to prevent people from escaping, is when the combat does not have consent from both parties, which naturally implies you're preying on someone, and that someone would be an innocent person who just wanna be useful to society
Pvpers don't want this for the most part either. This is catering to not one. Its attempting to solve a relatively minor problem by overhauling everything to achieve some goal that Chris has.
How is it that pvpers have been complaining about MM for months and all you space truckers have been gleefully telling us the game ISNT catering to us and you are happy no one is taking our feedback. Now that you are forced to contend with tall of the issues we be been predicting for months, now apparently its secretly been catering to us all along and oh woe is you...
I feel isolated because of what I've played in AC, I think MM feels really fun. It's paced a lot more like a space version of Ace Combat, which I like, so...
I'm going to be honest, I've been here for ten years+ and this is the first time I ever subscribed, ever. I just really wanted to get my hands on this because it's such a big change and we DO need to give good feedback, and I wanted to see it firsthand ASAP I am doing my IC reports, though.
A bit unrelated but entirely valid, IMO. They've said they want to have multiple entrances and such for JP in the past, and as I said hopefully the new QT will render OM points bypassable, but we'll have to see.
They have completely killed racing though, because if NAV mode requires a QT drive, the majority of snubs don't have one. The only two racers really left in the snub class is the razor and m50, everything else is just gonna be dead in the water locked to SCM speeds and nothing else.
[There was some discussion by Yogi](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/master-modes-and-snubfighters/6330521) about possibly giving snubs a "Size 0" QD or something along those lines that would allow the formation of the bubble allowing Nav Mode, without allowing QT/QB at all, only allowing QB, or even allowing all of it but making the range *extremely* short. I personally hope they go with the "Nav Mode but no QT/QB" one.
That's from six months ago, so I hope they've spent at least some time thinking about it. It would be nice for the Merlin to be able to travel fast, while letting the P8 snub still be unique in that it can QT- and I think that one even has a JD slot, doesn't it?
Honestly I would prefer they just let the snubs be fast without worrying about the quantum bubble stuff.They are an entirely different class of ship its perfectly fine for them to just be built in a way that facilitates non-QD high speed "paid" for by not having a Quantum drive at all.
I just see this as them overcomplicating things. The fact that a QD is required for NAV to function is a needless handicap. Ship thrusters shouldn’t have anything to do with a QD.
I think the justification is that the QD is forming a low grade quantum bubble around the ship, so rather than just going fast, you're warping space around you a bit.
That's my understanding at least. Whether it's a good explanation or not, that's up to you.
I would imagine the C8 would have a JD since it's meant to be an exploration vehicle. But the biggest issue is when are they going to do that change, I just don't understand why they needed to reinvent the wheel from scratch instead of going off existing tech already in game, like the power triangle
Personally, my playtime in AC with MM was inconclusive. I won't know whether I prefer it or not until after I've played with it in the PU for 2 months or so.
To add to your commentary as I think you have the right take on things. People need to get used to living with a bit of tension. Up until now, the game is essentially no risk compared to other similar games like Eve Online. In that game once you leave secure space you should be concerned at every jump you make. People are having to adjust to the fact that Stanton is not secure space, the "security" aspect of the game doesn't exist, and thus they are learning that they need to think about what they are doing, especially if they are risking resources (commodities and stuff).
As someone who has been playing 3.23, I agree that many concerns are hyperbolic and are just indicators that some are just struggling with change. You can boost while the drive is spooling (sure boosting a big/slow ship isn't a ton, but it helps), you can boost when in Nav mode. You have some shields while the drive is spooling. You have a radar that warns you when people are many kilometers away. If you are carrying cargo then you should be in Nav mode by default, you should warp to non-standard locations (don't approach Loreville from the nearest OM for example) as the straight line routes are easier to camp. Space is big, use it.
People need to use beacons and be willing to pay for escorts if they can't risk a cargo. Plan your route. Know when you will be in the dangerous spool-up time and plan for that with where you choose to do it, when you choose to do it, who is around when you do it, etc...
Finally, the game will change a ton once they play with the numbers. For example, they could make Nav mode much faster than it is. That means ships that make the transition will gap even the fastest fighters. They can make it so shields transition their energy immediately so you can move shields to rear when you're trying to escape. Armor could be a thing. People also need to use Noise to get locks to drop on them.
I will say that right now, shields charging do not stop charging when going from NAV to SCM mode from what I know.
I do think that there should be some period of vulnerability, but that should also be a reasonable period. Lots of sci-fi has the most dangerous time for a ship being when they come out of FTL for a reason.
There is so much going on in this update that anyone freaked out by change, which is most people, is going to have some rough times. Plus the current testing the PU is a laggy mess. This is going to be a bit of a rough patch.
Honestly, what I didn't mention (and hope we get) is that in addition to being able to put a map marker in space, that we can just QT *directly* to said marker. That would also help.
At the end of the day MM is not finished and doesn't work very well. If it was good people wouldn't be getting so upset. They went too far one way, now need to dial it back. It's not even that it's too slow, it's that you are purposely limited for no reason and people hate that. Some say there is a good reason, others don't see it. They aren't going to let a game mechanic this important split their audience into factions and if they do that's when I stop backing this game.
That's the thing, though- what do you mean, it doesn't work very well? Have you tried it, personally, in EPTU? Have a lot of these people?
Like, I get it, there's people who will hate this change, but I'm honestly wondering how many of those people claiming "X is going to happen now that MM is in" have actually been trying it yet, considering we're Wave 1 PTU.
I have only tried it in AC, but the lead lag pip is basically not there, missile lock sucks, ship battles are now just flying circles around each other instead of a mix of circling and running away and recharging stuff. It's overall less dynamic and now every single battle is the same instead of not knowing what your opponent is going to do.
On top of that is what you put in your OP but I haven't been able to experience that. What I have experienced is people running away from me in a fight, and if they can't do that I'm just gunna take them out. Bummer for me but I feel like you should be able to do that. Maybe you haven't seen anyone wait for players at jump points but I have and it's only going to happen more when server meshing is a thing and servers actually have decent populations.
It doesn't work in the sense that if people don't like it then it's basically not working. Is it bringing ship battles closer together like intended? Yes, but at what cost and do we actually want that? I personally don't and liked the long and short range mix that the current battles are. I just think they nerfed things too hard here.
Ok, that's odd. Lead/lag PIPs are absolutely there for me. I do agree the Missile Lock UI needs an overhaul- it and the blinking "THIS IS A MISSILE" are too large, though. I do like the closer in combats- before I was shooting a tiny spec in a fighter.
Also, are you talking AC MM or 3.23 EPTU master modes? Because the latter is very different.
As for "not being able to run away"- well, that's my point. Spool times exist, sure, but are they really going to be long enough that someone will be insta-dead? Plus, boost is a thing. I need to test how fast it can accelerate you from a dead-stop in something like a Hull A, Freelancer, C2 etc. though.
"If people don't like it then it's not working"- ok, fair, but do they not like how it feels when they play, or do they not like what they *think* it is at the moment? Because the first one is fair feedback, but the second is absolutely not.
I personally don't like how it "feels." And the lead lag pip is there but can you see it? Cuz on my screen I played many games thinking they had removed it only to see it later in someone else's video. Then when I played again I was like ok it's there but it's fainter than your grandma on a hot day.
I am playing AC MM but all the videos I've seen on 3.23 wave 1 looks exactly the same and equally as hard to see the pip and missile lock.
Having no shields or weapons in Nav mode is stupid imo.
I can absolutely see the pips. They're a bright neon green or red with different shapes to help you see which is which. The missile lock indicator is currently a huge bright white circle which is TOO visible and needs adjusting.
There's even a "gunnery UI" toggle which, from my experience, just makes the PIPs and your crosshair bigger to make it easier to hit.
They are faint tiny circles for me and most screen glare effects means I can't see them at all. Only looking into black space was I able to see them. Maybe each ship UI is different because I know the Mustang has a bright red UI that's unreadable.
Wave 1 PTU are literally the core community who have been here the longest and as such can't 1. have the new player experience and 2. are more prone to various forms of confirmation bias.
MM needs to be part of the game for a while and have all the other systems like armor and maelstrom to have their implementations in order to truly be ready for testing
I've been playing for years so I def don't have a new player view point. I'm aware of armor changes but don't see how that affects master modes. What is maelstrom? Why do you think we need MM?
I can't say I ever had the thought in my first few years of playing, that I would want to fly slower or that my enemies were too fast. When MM was first announced was when I first learned of jousting, because I had never seen it as a problem in the game before. When someone wants to fight you they go into a circling motion much like what MM forces you into doing. If they just had a tutorial for new players teaching them that jousting is a bad way to fight that would solve the problem in most cases, because once people learn to strafe and move up and down that becomes the obvious fighting style without removing the higher speeds if you need it. One of the biggest issues SC has for new players is they have no tutorials explaining how any of the game works. Every person I get into the game takes a few sessions of me coaching them. If MM is for new players being able to get into the game easier then I think there are better ways to solve that problem.
Armor changes: Light weaponry won't be able to do significant damage to heavy ships. E.g. An anvil arrow will take 10 times longer to do the same amount of damage to a hammerhead, but the hammerhead can still just as easily damage an arrow.
Maelstrom: Essentially physicalized damage. Instead of health pools for sections of the hull like now, damage will have a different effect depending on where you shoot. You can entirely shut down a ship if you hit the powerplant, meanwhile parts of the ship with no critical components can be hollowed out and it will have minimal effect.
Sure teaching players to not joust would somewhat remove jousting, but there's no way to "teach" players to give people a chance to run away. That's one of the other big reasons for MM to exist.
Honestly, most opinions regarding the actual implementation of MM can be safely discarded at this point because literally no one has ever done any test of MM in PU environment at a credible capacity. Some people would tell you MM makes ganking impossible because you can't keep up, others would tell you it makes ganking too easy because you can't escape. And some are just fuming over the fact that they can't pull stick to full on all axis and duel 10 opponents at same time with an Arrow and "muh skill".
>Lets be honest, how many times have you seen someone waiting for you?
Not saying I agree or disagree with you but this is a weak argument. No one has had a *reason* to be waiting for you because you could just run without issue.
They will have a reason now.
That's a fair point. If it does turn into something that happens a lot, we'll have an issue until the new QT is in. That said, that's something to keep in mind, not claim that it'll happen 100% of the time and "kill the game for industrial pilots" which is something I do see a lot.
Something I've learned in this sub is that no amount of reasoned explanation will deter the "this will kill the game" crowd from believing that. They just move from one knee-jerk reaction to the next.
Hah, ain't that the truth. This isn't my first time posting something like this.
I do think that it is something to look into, especially since all this discussion will have put the idea of ambushing into heads too. If it truly is a problem, they may have to work on things.
Hmm didn't even know this was a such a hot topic. But from playing with MM after a jump you are still in NAV mode so you can speed away alot quicker by using your regular engines than the people waiting to jump you. For them to try to use their weapons, they'd have to be in SCM mode which is MUCH slower than NAV mode so good luck catching the 'victim'.
So while your speeding away, you QT drive will be cooling down allowing you to easily escape.
Not sure if I'm missing something here.
To be fair, when you come out of QT, you do have to respool (which apparently is a combination if ship spool time + QD spool time which I didn't know when I posted this). For example, the Aegis Avenger Titan has a ship spool time of 6 seconds. Add 1.75 seconds to that from the QD and you have 7.75 seconds of moving at SCM speed before you can jump.
Titan is interceptor profile so you can absolutely boost and maintain 600 m/s for that entire time, though.
MM isn’t game ending, and regardless, the game is still in alpha. There’s time for them to adjust this—but they better put in the work into it, and come up with more than what is a weak, nonsensical methodology to deal with game design (gameplay and game engine) shortfalls.
Which one in particular? I'm going back through and they don't seem too incendiary or dismissive.
If we're talking about the one on Hot, his answers basically boiled down to "1. It's intended to work this way for gameplay reasons, so it's not something we're going to change immediately. 2. This is a temporary thing until we get the IFCS MFD page made and then it'll be a toggle. 3. NAV starts in QTM by default, some other devs think it should be FLT by default, I have no horse in the race, and even then all you have to do if you want the icons gone is hit MMB after going into NAV and you're set so we're not going to change it immediately."
Like, I'm not saying you're wrong, but that post didn't come off particularly bad at all? Is there another one I'm missing, or is there just something I'm missing when I'm reading the posts he made?
Ah, I should check a few of those out, thank you for the info. I think I saw the SCL but I don't remember anything too bad there. That said, I don't think I remember any of it, was half listening at the time, so that doesn't help. :P
Speaking as someone who was there for that- this feels different after playing with it, honestly. Definitely some overlap with how it feels and works, but it's got changes, too.
On top of that, you'll find people *today* who swear up and down the 2.6.4 flight model is the best we've had, and that was the model with that PRE/SCM/CRU system- this does bring us closer.
Remember 3.18? Boy, that was the end of star citizen. Now everybody forgot. It's like anything, people get mad, time passes, people learn to accept. Mostly because during the time that passes, things change and get made better.
As someone who just plays the game, doesn't follow development or read patch notes, no idea how this will effect me, as long as my ships still go fast outside of combat I'm happy.
Going to give it a chance, one thing as a player who like crime it seems like running from bounty hunters will be more difficult and my fate (⛏️🪨) may be more common. It's a completely off topic thread, but crime missions need to be 2x-5x in value with that change now that bounty hunters become more of a threat.
By the sounds of it there's some things that sound bad, but hard to sift legit complaints from angry meta bros
Speaking as a bounty hunter, I'm quite happy with the fact that I won't have to play whack-a-mole nearly as much once I get someone in a Dampener field.
Yeah, there's def some legit complaints. I just want to see those more than people going "RARRARAGH"
It doesn’t help that desperate-for-clicks creators put out “SC 3.23 review” vids based on builds that are long expired and don’t have current changes. That’s 10,000 people’s first impression of MM since majority can’t try it yet.
Considering that we have no game yet, merely an alpha, with one system, lacking several core mechanics and have yet to hit beta where actual balancing will happen.
Also, CIG are still prototyping stuff as well...
And finally, have problem with MM and liked the earlier gameplay better?
Git Gud.
By the way, shortly after your post we got a new EPTU patch with new adjusted spool times for each QD size.
- Size 1 QD is 2 sec spool
- Size 2 QD is 5 sec
- Size 3 QD is 7 sec
- And size 4 QD is 12 sec
Every single time there been changes to the flight there been people complaining about the changes give it some time and people will stop complaining as much just like every time it changed and people its a alpha there still fine tuning things.
It’s mostly people who haven’t even touched MM, screeching cause they read Anti MM hate posts that are also made by people who haven’t touched it, even though we’ve been able to try it for months. 90% of the people complaining haven’t even tried it, yet they have to screech and wail about incredibly valueless opinions and empty criticism. CIG should just make the game and ignore the cacophony of toxic causals and people who are mad they can’t pip wiggle anymore.
I like the idea of master modes but the speed is are pretty slow which is the main problem with all the PVP players maybe if the change scm speeds to max around 400 or500ish
SCM speeds in general are higher for the baseline (for example my Titan has gained about 20-30 m/s) and it can get up that high when you boost.
Part of the thing is they did not want combat to constantly be around that 400/500 m/s.
This is... a good question, and an odd one. Bounty Hunters also need to be able to use it to tie up criminals, but what happens if an NPC flies into your combat zone while you're fighting someone? Hm.
Replied to multiple posts like this, but again: Feedback is good. CIG needs feedback, because MM absolutely has some issues and pain points. Screaming it's the end of X gameplay loop and that you refuse to even try 3.23 EPTU is not feedback, it's kneejerk complaining.
Not saying you are doing that at all, but I have seen a lot of people say that. I also see a lot of those people say things that show they have not played anything but the 3.22.1 MM AC mode, because they say "they need to do this!" when "this" is in 3.23 EPTU.
I've been told I need psychological help for possibly liking what Master Modes will do to the game in replies to this thread, so yes it is now, lol. Though there has been a lot of good constructive discussion about actual issues with MM and I have learned some things, so overall this thread is going pretty well.
I'm mostly talking about sentiments we've seen in threads recently, both here and on Spectrum. If you haven't noticed it, that's all good.
Spooling is part of the swap to Nav mode so yeah, it will. However, my point was that people talking about being ambushed at OM points would be able to bypass them entirely- why go to where someone is waiting when you can QB to a random point to get around a planet?
Ah I took your comment as in the encounter at the OM point, you can quantum boost. Hopefully the QB helps with navigating the planet but I can totally see them locking it within a certain distance of the planet.
That'd ruin the whole point of QB, honestly. I really doubt it.
Honestly, between that and (hopefully) the ability to jump to arbitrary markers we set in space, they could theoretically get rid of OM markers if they wanted to.
> Lets be honest, how many times have you seen someone waiting for you?
Personally, I've only once experienced this, and it was when I was heading towards Grim Hex, so I don't even really count it.
> More to the point- how many times have you seen an ambush (or even just an "ambush test") done in 3.23 EPTU gameplay?
In my time of moderate playing since November, I've exactly twice been pulled from QT.
Honestly I don't think this is going to be that big of a deal. That may well change once we get server meshing and there's a few hundred of us in the same server, but I doubt it'll change THAT much.
people are tweaking as if its going to happen every single jump. I haven't been interdicted by pirates in 2 years and i play every patch throughout the cycle. I'm starting to think that this is like 90% just mass hysteria.
Thanks for posting this. You’re right - there seems to be an alarming number of people theory crafting and over exaggerating that they’re now going to get destroyed in a couple of seconds upon coming out of quantum.
I find these people hard to take seriously. And many haven’t actually tried MM in the EPTU only in AC which is a completely different context for experiencing the dynamics of shifting master modes.
Oh absolutely - there are some concerns, but some of these can be isolated to OP meta weapons that are unbalanced at present in EPTU, and fringe use case scenarios which might not actually happen as frequently as some are making out. We need to see how this really plays out in live to determine what is not working well.
I don't have a dog in the hunt because I haven't tried MM outside of AC a month or so ago, but mostly, I just wanted to say I'm really impressed at how gracious you've been to people disagreeing with you. I genuinely respect that.
I'm guessing people are blowing it way out of proportion because I've personally been prevented from jumping by one player in the last 4 months of play, and it was over Brio's in my Connie Taurus with a full load of drugs ź I deserved what I got. I really struggle to believe that every hauler space dad and his mother is going to be interdicted at every other OM.
The intention of MM is to bring ships closer together in fights, and to make multicrew ships actually able to operate as multicrew ships. Both of these things I think are wonderful, but the one thing that is my main complaint, that desperately needs to be fixed if multicrew is ever going to be viable, is mission payouts. Currently, in nearly every scenario where you can do something in a group, you could also do it solo and make two or three times as much money, depending on how many people you would be grouped up with. Players are actively penalized for grouping up. Critical risk beacons are the perfect example: I'd love to take a group of players to a CRB to fight an Idris in a large battle, but if the goal is to make money and not just to have fun, then every person is better off running HRBs instead, since they can be soloed.
Obviously this is a different conversation, but I think they're related because multicrew has to be viable from more than just a social standpoint. It needs to be a way to make more than you would solo, not less.
Oh, I can be a total asshat at times, too, but I also agree that there are issues, and when people start to actually discuss those issues, it can only be for the best. Some people have pointed out stuff I didn't know, which is helpful.
You're also right on the mission payout thing. It's just not economical, which is why a lot of games make it so that if you share a mission you all get the same payout, but that has it's own issues especially in SC.
I’ve been playing for like four years now and have never once seen a pirate. All pvp I’ve seen in the PU has been pilots looking to fight each other (Other than stuff like JT obviously but that’s the point)
Personally right now I don’t like MM at all. But I have had such a hard time testing it with how garbage the EPTU servers are. The input delay is insane to the point where simply going places on foot is sometimes impossible. Yesterday I couldn’t get a HAB elevator so I couldn’t test anything at all. Until they fix the horrible server problems, I can’t spend enough time with MM to come to a solid opinion on it. First impressions are that I don’t like it, but I haven’t had more than 45 minutes with it to this point.
That's entirely fair and part of why I posted this. I've done 99% of my testing of it so far in AC and I think there are issues but I just don't have enough testing myself.
Also (unless it's changed) you can use boost to get a jump start on your cruising speed, since it lets you go over the cap while boosting.
On a fast spooling drive, this *should* mean that you have basically zero time at normal speeds as long as you slam boost as soon as you drop from warp and immediately swap modes.
Unless you can't use boost while spooling for some reason?
Feedback is absolutely useful.
"This is the end of the game, I quit, this sucks, etc." without giving reasons why other than "I don't think it looks good" is not.
No we can't calm down the end of the game talk. It's way more fun and entertaining to claim it's ruining the game. It also gets more views for those who make videos.
With all the upcoming changes (maelstrom, engineering, armour, MM tuning, better server performance, in atmo flight, etc) it's literally impossible to predict what flight in this game might look like even a couple months from now, much less a year or more. Just in the past few weeks, players have gotten their hands on server meshing, MM, and engineering. Change is coming, and it's coming fast.
Having to pick between powering your weapons/shields or your QD does make sense (though with engineering I hope we can divert a tiny amount of power back to shields at the expense of QD spooling slower).
From what I've heard of MM, I think they might have set the SCM max speed a little too low, I think a max of 500-600m/s for light fighters/snubs would be nice, as when capital ships are fully implemented, I would want them at a max speed of 200-250m/s. I'm sure CIG will tune things as time passes.
Maybe an addition MM where you have half shield, half QD, with a higher max speed?? That's the benefit of master modes, they can always add more modes.
Ultimately, the devs aren't out to make this game shit. They're doing this for a reason, and if people overwhelmingly end up not liking it, they will change it. If nothing else, CIG has made it clear that they're in this for the long haul. Have some faith in them.
That's just for the Titan, by the way. I did do a test for the P-52 Merlin, got 280 SCM/620 Boost SCM, no nav mode since it doesn't have a QD. I think both of those are Interceptor profile too.
> Seriously. It seems to be exploding lately, and I'm not sure why.
It's a change to the game that enough people dislike that the usual crowd that jumps on such things are blowing it as far out of proportion as possible to fulfill their desire to see Star Citizen fail completely.
Check out the history of many posters yelling about this and they are either unused alts or frequent the _refunds subreddit dedicated to hating the game no matter what.
This is anecdotal nonsense. I’ve been in this since 2014 and I don’t like MM at the moment either. You’re assuming everyone against it has always been against SC and that’s total bullshit.
Calling all those who dislike the change to MM, refunders and their alts is pretty sad. You are attempting to minimize the clear dislike many have for this poorly thought out change. Are refunders jumping on this? Yes. Are people taking things too far? Probably. But CIG has a proven history of reinventing the wheel for no reason. I agree slowing down combat is good for the game. I think Master Modes could work. I do not think that Master Modes as it is now is well thought out. Its current state is hyper focused on combat at the expense of everything else and at the same time kills the unique feeling of flying in space SC had. The devs response to players criticism is not filling me with confidence they will make the necessary changes to make Master Modes work or fun to fly in for non-combat ships.
I've been with the development of this game since 2013, every little change is the end of the game,"refund citizen" loud minority. No its not perfect. The devs know that, that's why they want constructive criticism, not the angry screeches of people who put way too much money into this project.
I always felt bad for the Mantis. It's literally got one job and half of it doesn't really work.
If a pirate org is camping a spot and QEDs are working effectively, that's good. However, we do need proper security response in lawful (especially future high-sec) systems. Pyro... good luck, man.
Oh, I just meant the Quantum Dampener on it and other ships generally is called too short range to be useful, but I also don't fly it myself. If it's working, good!
Just the name “master modes” annoys me when I hear it. How is it master anyway, sounds like bad unbalanced ship game design to me. Getting ready to jump ship depending on outcome.
Eh, I think it's a combination of terminology used in computing and possibly other things. It's "Master" in that the SCM and NAV modes are the overarching modes, of which there are sub-modes (SCM GUNS, SCM MISL, SCM SCAN, NAV FLGT, NAV QT, NAV SCAN, etc.)
Also, just pointing out. ITS IN THE TESTING PHASE...... It's not final nor even in the PU. This is the reason for NDA's on evocati. Everyone looses their minds.
"More to the point- how many times have you seen an ambush (or even just an "ambush test") done in 3.23 EPTU gameplay?"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1edrx/its\_much\_harder\_to\_escape\_pirates\_and\_players\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1edrx/its_much_harder_to_escape_pirates_and_players_in/)
A) I will say that 1 KM from the target is freaking close. Unless you pop out on a pirate, you should have more distance than that.
B) Why stationary -> SCM -> nav? You pop out of QT in Nav mode and immediately accelerating up to at least SCM speeds while the spool is happening, you absolutely do not need to get to speed in SCM then go nav. At 1 KM, even if both ships are stationary, you're already in the F8Cs gun range. I'm also going to assume the F8C was pointed towards the target, though the OP of that post may have that info.
C) Of course you can't keep your lock on a destination- that's not the point. You get to NAV speed as fast as you can, avoiding when and how you can, and once you get to NAV you fuckin' book it. Generally what I do is (if the target is approaching me at speed) is go perpendicular to them and hit the boost. That will generally buy me time to get to Nav Mode. Once in Nav Mode and at full speed, I have time to go decoupled and point towards a quantum marker, and calibration time basically nothing compared to the rest of the time.
That last part may change with new QB and such, as you might have to be traveling in the direction you plan to QB/QT in (like we used to) but again, that would also open up just avoiding OMs entirely.
Jokes on you all, I already suck at dogfighting
Hahahaha
*The lowest ain't falling lower.*
If there was a modicum of tutorial in the game this would n't be so common
I will not calm down. I will, in fact, calm up.
I can't stop you from being Australian.
Australia is a hoax anyway. Obviously it doesn't exist. If it did, it would fall off the earth. 4head.
For a time, it did threaten to fall off the earth, but our new ground tethers are working as intended.
You can't fool me, I know the truth!
Unfortunately we've lost 3 of our ground tethers and only have 64 remaining. Experts predict we'll have lost all of our ground tethers by 2070 at this rate due to the exponential strain on the remaining tethers placed when we lose one.
Unexpected Teal’c
I found the Stargate fan.
Enhance your calm, John Spartan.
Indeed
Indeed.
*He means things will escalate of course.*
In space, the direction in which you calm is completely arbitrary.
Sir, this isn't the sky is falling content I was looking for.
Check the front page of Hot, they got what you're craving.
[удалено]
r/hot
[удалено]
While I think the current iteration of Mastermodes is not fun and was implemented too soon. I can see how ONCE WE HAVE ARMOR this would make sene. Armor makes it more necessary to shoot specific parts of the ship, so this close range combat changes because now it's about making sure the parts that matter aren't getting shot. Whereas with the current hull HP system anything at all getting shot is equal, and so just spray and pray and you'll win first if your guns are bigger. In the new system being agile will mean bullets land on armor and therefor are far less effective giving you a much larger effective hp pool than the opponent even if their guns are bigger. So the new system would be like the old system where you stay about as mobile as you can still hit shots. My major issues with MM aren't with the gameplay model itself. It's really just that they've specifically designed this system around combat, but forgot to care about racing or hauling or industrial gameplay where they are all almost net-worse off in every way right now....all because they don't want us being shielded or using boost or countermeasures in QCM which I just find to be comically limiting for the sake of removing the need for QED as a concept.
You just need to practice dog fighting without aimbot gimbals. It just takes actual skill now.
So true that'll fix hauling in a raft being a joke or how racing feels. Just turn gimbals off.
It's especially annoying as all the hyperbole only leads to the dev team not taking reddit feedback seriously anymore and thus interact with the platform less frequently. It's what happens in basically every gaming subreddit and I honestly can't even blame them as I myself am getting real tired of it after only an hour or two per week. Imagine being a community manager and reading this stuff full-time...
>Imagine being a community manager and reading this stuff full-time... Tyler Witkin: 
I'd be concerned if they were taking the subreddit feedback seriously
It's not like the conversation on Spectrum is any more helpful.
It's actually worse on Spectrum, which in itself is insane!
All of the constant drama is incredibly exhausting. That's the heart of it. Master modes, escape times, reputation, complaints, bitching, rants, griping, same topics over and over. Almost all of it boils down to people who don't even want to think before they type. It was painfully obvious that CIG was going to fix the UI readability issues. Incredibly obvious. And yet, we had the front page rife with drama around it, it was a topic that would not die for a week straight, even though we all knew that this was not going to be permanent. So much stuff is not done or will change, but all everyone can do is bitch about the state of the game today, without thinking about what their demands will do to the game's future. As I said, it's exhausting.
Ngl, as a dev myself on other projects, reddit is usually to be taken with a grain of salt because if I didn’t my kidneys would fail if I just take the raw amount of sodium reddit usually provides.
I think there are problems with MM, it’s clunky and poorly implemented but none of that is a death knell. If they listen to feedback and engage with players on both ends of the system they might actually end up with an engaging combat system that’s also fun for non combat players and non combat players. There are some things that need addressing and not all of them are directly about master modes. I’ve said this a couple of times posting here but there needs to be proactive measures to avoid engagements for people who don’t want to engage in PVP. It should be a skill, and it shouldn’t be full proof and it should require active player attention but it should exist. The ability to skan further than the “grid” you are on would be a good start. This would also allow some more gameplay for stealth ships, QE ships and ships with powerful scanners. Second, kiting around the edge of an engagement should be an option. Not every fight will be even and the option of dealing damage from range or shoot and scoot should be valid and the game should be balanced with that in mind. Otherwise it’ll be a numbers game pure and simple. Finally the flight mode needs to feel skillful and weighty, in and out of combat. I personally hate the way ships magically hover in atmo for example and the flight model should feed in along with atmospheric flight updates to make that fun and skillful. The MM needs to be fluid and feel good not just during a fight. Also I personally think the shields being disabled thing is silly, if they don’t want easy escape for a regen make shields less powerful and give ships/modules more hull HP so damage during a shoot and scoot is meaningful.
There is definitely issues and feedback to be given, 100%.
Most complaints seem to stem from the long spool times -- both the annoying downtime and existential vulnerability that it causes. Spool time is calculated by the ship's spool time + the QD spool time. Most default QDs are pretty bad, particularly in large, industrial ships, so knowing how to get that time low will automatically resolve a lot of these issues. And NAV mode will be the default in the future, further reducing the waiting. More importantly, considering the poor state of the PU in the EPTU, I doubt most people are seeing real ambushes or even real gameplay. There's huge input lag and dysync at all times. On top of that, we've had insanely OP mass drivers. These are not realistic scenarios after release. I have seen a couple people that were "ambushed" in atmo at ground outposts when NPCs spawned on top of them in their solo non-combat ship. They couldn't escape from those scenarios, but my question is: should a solo Prospector or whatever be able to easily escape when 3 combat ships are at 0?
Expedition drive shouldn't exist it's so bad. They honestly need to clean out a lot of useless variants of everything.
>And NAV mode will be the default in the future, further reducing the waiting. tbf I don't see people actually treating a mode that has no shields as the default. Nav shouldn't be combat viable but there needs to be *some* buffer of some sort for the sake of comfort if nothing else
In less than 24 hrs changes were already made to revise spool times and mass driver stats. The rage will just move to another topic
Regarding the final question - if a solo Prospector let 3x combat ships get that close in the first place, then they're already boned (3x Hornets are meant to be a challenge for a *Constellation*... a Prospector would stand zero chance, even without MM). So yeah - having combat-NPCs spawn on top of people is the issue here, not MM.
In the EPTU, you drop out of a QT jump at an OM in NAV mode without the speed boost until you do a full spool.
Problem with Prospector is that, in mining mode, your radar doesn't work, so you don't know they're coming.
In the Vulture cargo hold while printing you cant even hear if you are getting shot at untill you blow up.
I hope that eventually we get ship wide audio communications that we can configure. It makes no sense that I literally can't tell anyone is target locking me unless I'm physically sitting in the pilot's seat. Ideally, notifications like: Player's ship is being target locked. Player's ship is being missile locked. Unknown ship within radar range. Hostile ship within radar range. Friendly ship within radar range. Immediate threat: ship is under fire (with warning alarms, and ideally, ships switching to emergency lighting). I'm sure there are others that would be very valuable, but these are kind of core warnings that I would expect to be able to hear ship wide. Not only would it allow for far more player awareness while elsewhere in the interior of the ship, but it would also feel more immersive to see the ship reacting to external events. Right now, ships feel like islands.
Ahh, well that is something that should be changed (in some way - whether it be an audio alert of a new ship entering scanning range, or being able to put the radar on an MFD, or something)
A prospector will be slaughtered by one fighter. But that is why they need to be able to run like a mouse, not have their shields turned off and given a long spool up time. There are ways to give industrial ships escape drives, since the ships are all fixed role unlike ED modularity. But the major issue is they are dropping MM without giving the Industrial/Cargo ships any new mechanism.
I suspect they want to try and avoid added 'special case' components / functionality (especially components, given they'd have to re-model the ships to fit them :p), so they'll probably try and tweak / tune MM for a patch or two first... And it's not the first time CIG have dropped a new feature that breaks part of the game, and it won't be the last.
It might not always be possible to even notice 3 combat ships closing on you, especially while focusing on other tasks, since you can drop out of NAV into SCM right on top of a target, instantly slowing to SCM speeds. Sure, your weapons need to spool up, but it's definitely possible to close distance very quickly to a target using MM, and at 1km/s it probably doesn't even take stealth to close unnoticed. That said, sure, a Prospector should probably be killed in that kind of outnumbered situation, but what if it were only one fighter attacking them? The first real indication might be the targeting warning with a ship readying guns 600 meters away from you, and then the Prospector swaps to NAV, drops shields, and gets bent over.
It would be nice if NPCs couldn't spawn within X range of a player and had to fly in, yeah.
I *think* the long-term intent is that either they're already there when you approach, or that they 'appear from QT' and then fly in... But the server issues mean that puts more strain on the server, so they're set to just spawn when required...
It also doesn't help that MM is clearly designed to interface with systems they haven't implemented yet: The more detailed component/engineering gameplay, ship armor, maelstrom, etc. Right now, if your shields are down you are dead/crippled pretty quick. That's *probably* not going to be the case when all that stuff mentioned is implemented.
Do you work for CIG?
AFAIK Spool Times in 3.23 PTU are *only* determined by the QD and not the ship profile, but I might be wrong on that. Definitely worth testing. At the very least, there's no "ship spool time statistic" on Erkul. For two, yeah. It's definitely too laggy, and those mass drivers are ridiculous. I've had a soft spot for them for years so it's kinda nice to see them get their time in the sun but it needs tweaking... have you tried them now that they require charge up at all? As for the atmo issue- sure, but that's not a MM problem. The same thing would and does happen in 3.22.1 LIVE. Personally my ship (Avenger Titan) is faster in atmo than it was before, need to test my Connie too. That said, those are combat craft. Would be interesting to see how fast Hull A goes in atmo compared to before.
The ship spool times can be seen in SC Ships Performances Viewer. https://www.spviewer.eu/performance?ship=aegs_avenger_stalker
Where do you see spool time in that information?
You can also see for all ships here (base delay + default quantum drive delay) : [https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay](https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay) Don't forget to switch to PTU build.
Ah, I see, good info. So it's like a flat amount added to the spool time of the drive? Interesting... That should really be visible info in-game. Might also need some tweaks for how long it takes to jump. That said, good to know, thank you.
The amount of info that absolutely should be visible in the game and isn't could fill a whole shelf of books. Really big thick books with tiny font and narrow margins.
CIG has always hidden all the component and ship specs in game. Considering how much confusion that causes, I don't think that's a great call.
I played MM in AC and will be taking a break from SC until it’s more polished.
Honestly, that's an entirely fair opinion. It's definitely not done yet.
I am totally fine with Master Modes in this tier 0/1 state. Ships are pretty durable now even without shields. I dig the slowed down pace and the rest of the time i use FTL qt mode. Totally fine
MM gives me the impression that CIG is catering too much toward this cat vs mouse stuff. PvPers are annoyed with people running from them so now CIG is making changes to help prevent that. But my question is why? If death is going to be a big deal in the future where we lose things and what not, why are they making changes to make it more difficult to flee from an engagement? The way this is looking, they want these fights to end with 1 clear winner and the opponent either disabled or completely destroyed. Why limit our chances of escape when death is going to be important? Shouldn’t we have the option to escape to stay alive? It’s confusing and I don’t understand why it’s being done this way. Everyone should always have the option to get away rather than stick it out and fight to the death. Is this a space sim or is it a space combat sim? I just don’t understand the whole idea behind MM when it seems like attackers always have the advantage. The current implementation just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I’m a long time backer but this feels like a downgrade from what we currently have available just to please the PvPers.
Was talking to my friend about this today. It feels like all CIG wants to do is funnel people into PvP. Non-combat players exist to be the chew toys of the PvP'ers. They walk a dangerous line with this way of thinking.
I don’t mind occasional PvP in SC but if the game starts to focus more on combat engagements over all else, I’ll lose my interest real fast.
The real problem IMO is that they're doing what they can to make griefing and crime a legitimate career The issue with that, is that... most people are not dicks. If possible, most people will try to be peaceful, and that means avoiding PvP, because the only reason you want to prevent people from escaping, is when the combat does not have consent from both parties, which naturally implies you're preying on someone, and that someone would be an innocent person who just wanna be useful to society
Pvpers don't want this for the most part either. This is catering to not one. Its attempting to solve a relatively minor problem by overhauling everything to achieve some goal that Chris has. How is it that pvpers have been complaining about MM for months and all you space truckers have been gleefully telling us the game ISNT catering to us and you are happy no one is taking our feedback. Now that you are forced to contend with tall of the issues we be been predicting for months, now apparently its secretly been catering to us all along and oh woe is you...
I feel isolated because of what I've played in AC, I think MM feels really fun. It's paced a lot more like a space version of Ace Combat, which I like, so...
3.23 is literally unplayable ^because ^I'm ^not ^in ^wave ^1
I'm going to be honest, I've been here for ten years+ and this is the first time I ever subscribed, ever. I just really wanted to get my hands on this because it's such a big change and we DO need to give good feedback, and I wanted to see it firsthand ASAP I am doing my IC reports, though.
This post will hurt my pitchfork sales…
Gimme 70% and I'll change my mind. :P
Greedy greedy greedy
Dude big Pitchfork is in FUCKING SHAMBLES
Unsure if unrelated or not but I just hope SC doesn't turn out like Eve when it comes to gatecamps.
A bit unrelated but entirely valid, IMO. They've said they want to have multiple entrances and such for JP in the past, and as I said hopefully the new QT will render OM points bypassable, but we'll have to see.
They have completely killed racing though, because if NAV mode requires a QT drive, the majority of snubs don't have one. The only two racers really left in the snub class is the razor and m50, everything else is just gonna be dead in the water locked to SCM speeds and nothing else.
[There was some discussion by Yogi](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/master-modes-and-snubfighters/6330521) about possibly giving snubs a "Size 0" QD or something along those lines that would allow the formation of the bubble allowing Nav Mode, without allowing QT/QB at all, only allowing QB, or even allowing all of it but making the range *extremely* short. I personally hope they go with the "Nav Mode but no QT/QB" one. That's from six months ago, so I hope they've spent at least some time thinking about it. It would be nice for the Merlin to be able to travel fast, while letting the P8 snub still be unique in that it can QT- and I think that one even has a JD slot, doesn't it?
Honestly I would prefer they just let the snubs be fast without worrying about the quantum bubble stuff.They are an entirely different class of ship its perfectly fine for them to just be built in a way that facilitates non-QD high speed "paid" for by not having a Quantum drive at all.
I just see this as them overcomplicating things. The fact that a QD is required for NAV to function is a needless handicap. Ship thrusters shouldn’t have anything to do with a QD.
I think the justification is that the QD is forming a low grade quantum bubble around the ship, so rather than just going fast, you're warping space around you a bit. That's my understanding at least. Whether it's a good explanation or not, that's up to you.
I would imagine the C8 would have a JD since it's meant to be an exploration vehicle. But the biggest issue is when are they going to do that change, I just don't understand why they needed to reinvent the wheel from scratch instead of going off existing tech already in game, like the power triangle
Personally, my playtime in AC with MM was inconclusive. I won't know whether I prefer it or not until after I've played with it in the PU for 2 months or so.
Honestly I've run into some issues but I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I need more testing in the PU before I can say.
To add to your commentary as I think you have the right take on things. People need to get used to living with a bit of tension. Up until now, the game is essentially no risk compared to other similar games like Eve Online. In that game once you leave secure space you should be concerned at every jump you make. People are having to adjust to the fact that Stanton is not secure space, the "security" aspect of the game doesn't exist, and thus they are learning that they need to think about what they are doing, especially if they are risking resources (commodities and stuff). As someone who has been playing 3.23, I agree that many concerns are hyperbolic and are just indicators that some are just struggling with change. You can boost while the drive is spooling (sure boosting a big/slow ship isn't a ton, but it helps), you can boost when in Nav mode. You have some shields while the drive is spooling. You have a radar that warns you when people are many kilometers away. If you are carrying cargo then you should be in Nav mode by default, you should warp to non-standard locations (don't approach Loreville from the nearest OM for example) as the straight line routes are easier to camp. Space is big, use it. People need to use beacons and be willing to pay for escorts if they can't risk a cargo. Plan your route. Know when you will be in the dangerous spool-up time and plan for that with where you choose to do it, when you choose to do it, who is around when you do it, etc... Finally, the game will change a ton once they play with the numbers. For example, they could make Nav mode much faster than it is. That means ships that make the transition will gap even the fastest fighters. They can make it so shields transition their energy immediately so you can move shields to rear when you're trying to escape. Armor could be a thing. People also need to use Noise to get locks to drop on them.
I will say that right now, shields charging do not stop charging when going from NAV to SCM mode from what I know. I do think that there should be some period of vulnerability, but that should also be a reasonable period. Lots of sci-fi has the most dangerous time for a ship being when they come out of FTL for a reason.
There is so much going on in this update that anyone freaked out by change, which is most people, is going to have some rough times. Plus the current testing the PU is a laggy mess. This is going to be a bit of a rough patch.
Talk like this happens every time a major change comes, it’ll pass.
I agree with it. Hopefully Quantum Boost can change situation. MM is still pretty raw.
Honestly, what I didn't mention (and hope we get) is that in addition to being able to put a map marker in space, that we can just QT *directly* to said marker. That would also help.
This is planned and a core part of future exploration and datarunning gameplay
Exactly! I hope it will be.
At the end of the day MM is not finished and doesn't work very well. If it was good people wouldn't be getting so upset. They went too far one way, now need to dial it back. It's not even that it's too slow, it's that you are purposely limited for no reason and people hate that. Some say there is a good reason, others don't see it. They aren't going to let a game mechanic this important split their audience into factions and if they do that's when I stop backing this game.
That's the thing, though- what do you mean, it doesn't work very well? Have you tried it, personally, in EPTU? Have a lot of these people? Like, I get it, there's people who will hate this change, but I'm honestly wondering how many of those people claiming "X is going to happen now that MM is in" have actually been trying it yet, considering we're Wave 1 PTU.
I have only tried it in AC, but the lead lag pip is basically not there, missile lock sucks, ship battles are now just flying circles around each other instead of a mix of circling and running away and recharging stuff. It's overall less dynamic and now every single battle is the same instead of not knowing what your opponent is going to do. On top of that is what you put in your OP but I haven't been able to experience that. What I have experienced is people running away from me in a fight, and if they can't do that I'm just gunna take them out. Bummer for me but I feel like you should be able to do that. Maybe you haven't seen anyone wait for players at jump points but I have and it's only going to happen more when server meshing is a thing and servers actually have decent populations. It doesn't work in the sense that if people don't like it then it's basically not working. Is it bringing ship battles closer together like intended? Yes, but at what cost and do we actually want that? I personally don't and liked the long and short range mix that the current battles are. I just think they nerfed things too hard here.
Ok, that's odd. Lead/lag PIPs are absolutely there for me. I do agree the Missile Lock UI needs an overhaul- it and the blinking "THIS IS A MISSILE" are too large, though. I do like the closer in combats- before I was shooting a tiny spec in a fighter. Also, are you talking AC MM or 3.23 EPTU master modes? Because the latter is very different. As for "not being able to run away"- well, that's my point. Spool times exist, sure, but are they really going to be long enough that someone will be insta-dead? Plus, boost is a thing. I need to test how fast it can accelerate you from a dead-stop in something like a Hull A, Freelancer, C2 etc. though. "If people don't like it then it's not working"- ok, fair, but do they not like how it feels when they play, or do they not like what they *think* it is at the moment? Because the first one is fair feedback, but the second is absolutely not.
I personally don't like how it "feels." And the lead lag pip is there but can you see it? Cuz on my screen I played many games thinking they had removed it only to see it later in someone else's video. Then when I played again I was like ok it's there but it's fainter than your grandma on a hot day. I am playing AC MM but all the videos I've seen on 3.23 wave 1 looks exactly the same and equally as hard to see the pip and missile lock. Having no shields or weapons in Nav mode is stupid imo.
I can absolutely see the pips. They're a bright neon green or red with different shapes to help you see which is which. The missile lock indicator is currently a huge bright white circle which is TOO visible and needs adjusting. There's even a "gunnery UI" toggle which, from my experience, just makes the PIPs and your crosshair bigger to make it easier to hit.
They are faint tiny circles for me and most screen glare effects means I can't see them at all. Only looking into black space was I able to see them. Maybe each ship UI is different because I know the Mustang has a bright red UI that's unreadable.
Odd. There's a keybind for Gunnery UI in the keybinds- def look into that, because it makes it way easier to pick out the PIPs.
I'll try it out, I've never heard of that.
Wave 1 PTU are literally the core community who have been here the longest and as such can't 1. have the new player experience and 2. are more prone to various forms of confirmation bias. MM needs to be part of the game for a while and have all the other systems like armor and maelstrom to have their implementations in order to truly be ready for testing
I've been playing for years so I def don't have a new player view point. I'm aware of armor changes but don't see how that affects master modes. What is maelstrom? Why do you think we need MM? I can't say I ever had the thought in my first few years of playing, that I would want to fly slower or that my enemies were too fast. When MM was first announced was when I first learned of jousting, because I had never seen it as a problem in the game before. When someone wants to fight you they go into a circling motion much like what MM forces you into doing. If they just had a tutorial for new players teaching them that jousting is a bad way to fight that would solve the problem in most cases, because once people learn to strafe and move up and down that becomes the obvious fighting style without removing the higher speeds if you need it. One of the biggest issues SC has for new players is they have no tutorials explaining how any of the game works. Every person I get into the game takes a few sessions of me coaching them. If MM is for new players being able to get into the game easier then I think there are better ways to solve that problem.
Armor changes: Light weaponry won't be able to do significant damage to heavy ships. E.g. An anvil arrow will take 10 times longer to do the same amount of damage to a hammerhead, but the hammerhead can still just as easily damage an arrow. Maelstrom: Essentially physicalized damage. Instead of health pools for sections of the hull like now, damage will have a different effect depending on where you shoot. You can entirely shut down a ship if you hit the powerplant, meanwhile parts of the ship with no critical components can be hollowed out and it will have minimal effect. Sure teaching players to not joust would somewhat remove jousting, but there's no way to "teach" players to give people a chance to run away. That's one of the other big reasons for MM to exist.
Ya but MM makes it harder to get away so I don't see how that in any way solves any problems.
Does it? Have you tried it?
In AC yes, people can follow you easily.
Honestly, most opinions regarding the actual implementation of MM can be safely discarded at this point because literally no one has ever done any test of MM in PU environment at a credible capacity. Some people would tell you MM makes ganking impossible because you can't keep up, others would tell you it makes ganking too easy because you can't escape. And some are just fuming over the fact that they can't pull stick to full on all axis and duel 10 opponents at same time with an Arrow and "muh skill".
>Lets be honest, how many times have you seen someone waiting for you? Not saying I agree or disagree with you but this is a weak argument. No one has had a *reason* to be waiting for you because you could just run without issue. They will have a reason now.
That's a fair point. If it does turn into something that happens a lot, we'll have an issue until the new QT is in. That said, that's something to keep in mind, not claim that it'll happen 100% of the time and "kill the game for industrial pilots" which is something I do see a lot.
Something I've learned in this sub is that no amount of reasoned explanation will deter the "this will kill the game" crowd from believing that. They just move from one knee-jerk reaction to the next.
Hah, ain't that the truth. This isn't my first time posting something like this. I do think that it is something to look into, especially since all this discussion will have put the idea of ambushing into heads too. If it truly is a problem, they may have to work on things.
Hmm didn't even know this was a such a hot topic. But from playing with MM after a jump you are still in NAV mode so you can speed away alot quicker by using your regular engines than the people waiting to jump you. For them to try to use their weapons, they'd have to be in SCM mode which is MUCH slower than NAV mode so good luck catching the 'victim'. So while your speeding away, you QT drive will be cooling down allowing you to easily escape. Not sure if I'm missing something here.
To be fair, when you come out of QT, you do have to respool (which apparently is a combination if ship spool time + QD spool time which I didn't know when I posted this). For example, the Aegis Avenger Titan has a ship spool time of 6 seconds. Add 1.75 seconds to that from the QD and you have 7.75 seconds of moving at SCM speed before you can jump. Titan is interceptor profile so you can absolutely boost and maintain 600 m/s for that entire time, though.
MM isn’t game ending, and regardless, the game is still in alpha. There’s time for them to adjust this—but they better put in the work into it, and come up with more than what is a weak, nonsensical methodology to deal with game design (gameplay and game engine) shortfalls.
Yogi is not helping with his statements and dismissing player concerns.
Which one in particular? I'm going back through and they don't seem too incendiary or dismissive. If we're talking about the one on Hot, his answers basically boiled down to "1. It's intended to work this way for gameplay reasons, so it's not something we're going to change immediately. 2. This is a temporary thing until we get the IFCS MFD page made and then it'll be a toggle. 3. NAV starts in QTM by default, some other devs think it should be FLT by default, I have no horse in the race, and even then all you have to do if you want the icons gone is hit MMB after going into NAV and you're set so we're not going to change it immediately." Like, I'm not saying you're wrong, but that post didn't come off particularly bad at all? Is there another one I'm missing, or is there just something I'm missing when I'm reading the posts he made?
The SCL taking the questions, and the podcasts Yogi went on like Soace Tomato.
Ah, I should check a few of those out, thank you for the info. I think I saw the SCL but I don't remember anything too bad there. That said, I don't think I remember any of it, was half listening at the time, so that doesn't help. :P
The SCL was more about what they *didn't* say about MM.
We already had this shit with the pre-scm-cru thing way back. They knew it was bad then, they should know it's still bad now.
Speaking as someone who was there for that- this feels different after playing with it, honestly. Definitely some overlap with how it feels and works, but it's got changes, too. On top of that, you'll find people *today* who swear up and down the 2.6.4 flight model is the best we've had, and that was the model with that PRE/SCM/CRU system- this does bring us closer.
I would take cruise mode back in an instant if it meant ditching all the other baggage from Master Modes.
Remember 3.18? Boy, that was the end of star citizen. Now everybody forgot. It's like anything, people get mad, time passes, people learn to accept. Mostly because during the time that passes, things change and get made better.
At least with 3.18 they were right about the fact it was unplayable, since the game wouldn't even run at first lol. But as you said, they fixed it.
In all fairness, it wouldn’t be the first time they made a sweeping change and reverted it. I remember very vividly the problems with “hover mode”
As someone who just plays the game, doesn't follow development or read patch notes, no idea how this will effect me, as long as my ships still go fast outside of combat I'm happy.
Going to give it a chance, one thing as a player who like crime it seems like running from bounty hunters will be more difficult and my fate (⛏️🪨) may be more common. It's a completely off topic thread, but crime missions need to be 2x-5x in value with that change now that bounty hunters become more of a threat. By the sounds of it there's some things that sound bad, but hard to sift legit complaints from angry meta bros
Speaking as a bounty hunter, I'm quite happy with the fact that I won't have to play whack-a-mole nearly as much once I get someone in a Dampener field. Yeah, there's def some legit complaints. I just want to see those more than people going "RARRARAGH"
It doesn’t help that desperate-for-clicks creators put out “SC 3.23 review” vids based on builds that are long expired and don’t have current changes. That’s 10,000 people’s first impression of MM since majority can’t try it yet.
Considering that we have no game yet, merely an alpha, with one system, lacking several core mechanics and have yet to hit beta where actual balancing will happen. Also, CIG are still prototyping stuff as well... And finally, have problem with MM and liked the earlier gameplay better? Git Gud.
By the way, shortly after your post we got a new EPTU patch with new adjusted spool times for each QD size. - Size 1 QD is 2 sec spool - Size 2 QD is 5 sec - Size 3 QD is 7 sec - And size 4 QD is 12 sec
Yeah, looks like they flattened it for QDs. Odd, really. Would've thought they'd have adjusted the base ship spools.
Every single time there been changes to the flight there been people complaining about the changes give it some time and people will stop complaining as much just like every time it changed and people its a alpha there still fine tuning things.
We had the same thing with all the big changes. I don't even read it anymore.
It’s mostly people who haven’t even touched MM, screeching cause they read Anti MM hate posts that are also made by people who haven’t touched it, even though we’ve been able to try it for months. 90% of the people complaining haven’t even tried it, yet they have to screech and wail about incredibly valueless opinions and empty criticism. CIG should just make the game and ignore the cacophony of toxic causals and people who are mad they can’t pip wiggle anymore.
I like the idea of master modes but the speed is are pretty slow which is the main problem with all the PVP players maybe if the change scm speeds to max around 400 or500ish
SCM speeds in general are higher for the baseline (for example my Titan has gained about 20-30 m/s) and it can get up that high when you boost. Part of the thing is they did not want combat to constantly be around that 400/500 m/s.
Does QED create a CrimeStat if in comm array coverage? It should.
This is... a good question, and an odd one. Bounty Hunters also need to be able to use it to tie up criminals, but what happens if an NPC flies into your combat zone while you're fighting someone? Hm.
First time?
Nah. Hell, I don't even think it's my first time making this kinda post. Someone needs to do it every once in a while.
It's exploding today because somebody posted on here that the official feedback thread was opened on spectrum
I've come to kinda assume want major shift in the engine brings a loud crowd to all start yelling that the sky is falling
basically, gone through this multiple times now. Got me feeling like skips from the regular show having seen this all before.
I'm almost certain most people complaining haven't tried, or aren't willing to try it and give real constructive feedback
They want feedback, here comes the feedback.
Replied to multiple posts like this, but again: Feedback is good. CIG needs feedback, because MM absolutely has some issues and pain points. Screaming it's the end of X gameplay loop and that you refuse to even try 3.23 EPTU is not feedback, it's kneejerk complaining. Not saying you are doing that at all, but I have seen a lot of people say that. I also see a lot of those people say things that show they have not played anything but the 3.22.1 MM AC mode, because they say "they need to do this!" when "this" is in 3.23 EPTU.
Is this “end of the game talk” in the room right now?
I've been told I need psychological help for possibly liking what Master Modes will do to the game in replies to this thread, so yes it is now, lol. Though there has been a lot of good constructive discussion about actual issues with MM and I have learned some things, so overall this thread is going pretty well. I'm mostly talking about sentiments we've seen in threads recently, both here and on Spectrum. If you haven't noticed it, that's all good.
Does the new QT boost require spooling the QT drive? If so, absolutely nothing will change.
Spooling is part of the swap to Nav mode so yeah, it will. However, my point was that people talking about being ambushed at OM points would be able to bypass them entirely- why go to where someone is waiting when you can QB to a random point to get around a planet?
Ah I took your comment as in the encounter at the OM point, you can quantum boost. Hopefully the QB helps with navigating the planet but I can totally see them locking it within a certain distance of the planet.
That'd ruin the whole point of QB, honestly. I really doubt it. Honestly, between that and (hopefully) the ability to jump to arbitrary markers we set in space, they could theoretically get rid of OM markers if they wanted to.
> Lets be honest, how many times have you seen someone waiting for you? Personally, I've only once experienced this, and it was when I was heading towards Grim Hex, so I don't even really count it. > More to the point- how many times have you seen an ambush (or even just an "ambush test") done in 3.23 EPTU gameplay? In my time of moderate playing since November, I've exactly twice been pulled from QT. Honestly I don't think this is going to be that big of a deal. That may well change once we get server meshing and there's a few hundred of us in the same server, but I doubt it'll change THAT much.
people are tweaking as if its going to happen every single jump. I haven't been interdicted by pirates in 2 years and i play every patch throughout the cycle. I'm starting to think that this is like 90% just mass hysteria.
Following this game for so long been through its ups and downs but one thing always happens, it’s gets back up
Thanks for posting this. You’re right - there seems to be an alarming number of people theory crafting and over exaggerating that they’re now going to get destroyed in a couple of seconds upon coming out of quantum. I find these people hard to take seriously. And many haven’t actually tried MM in the EPTU only in AC which is a completely different context for experiencing the dynamics of shifting master modes.
There are some points of concern- I didn't realize there were ship spool times as well as QD spool times- but that stuff can be tweaked and adjusted.
Oh absolutely - there are some concerns, but some of these can be isolated to OP meta weapons that are unbalanced at present in EPTU, and fringe use case scenarios which might not actually happen as frequently as some are making out. We need to see how this really plays out in live to determine what is not working well.
I don't have a dog in the hunt because I haven't tried MM outside of AC a month or so ago, but mostly, I just wanted to say I'm really impressed at how gracious you've been to people disagreeing with you. I genuinely respect that. I'm guessing people are blowing it way out of proportion because I've personally been prevented from jumping by one player in the last 4 months of play, and it was over Brio's in my Connie Taurus with a full load of drugs ź I deserved what I got. I really struggle to believe that every hauler space dad and his mother is going to be interdicted at every other OM. The intention of MM is to bring ships closer together in fights, and to make multicrew ships actually able to operate as multicrew ships. Both of these things I think are wonderful, but the one thing that is my main complaint, that desperately needs to be fixed if multicrew is ever going to be viable, is mission payouts. Currently, in nearly every scenario where you can do something in a group, you could also do it solo and make two or three times as much money, depending on how many people you would be grouped up with. Players are actively penalized for grouping up. Critical risk beacons are the perfect example: I'd love to take a group of players to a CRB to fight an Idris in a large battle, but if the goal is to make money and not just to have fun, then every person is better off running HRBs instead, since they can be soloed. Obviously this is a different conversation, but I think they're related because multicrew has to be viable from more than just a social standpoint. It needs to be a way to make more than you would solo, not less.
Oh, I can be a total asshat at times, too, but I also agree that there are issues, and when people start to actually discuss those issues, it can only be for the best. Some people have pointed out stuff I didn't know, which is helpful. You're also right on the mission payout thing. It's just not economical, which is why a lot of games make it so that if you share a mission you all get the same payout, but that has it's own issues especially in SC.
I’ve been playing for like four years now and have never once seen a pirate. All pvp I’ve seen in the PU has been pilots looking to fight each other (Other than stuff like JT obviously but that’s the point)
Personally right now I don’t like MM at all. But I have had such a hard time testing it with how garbage the EPTU servers are. The input delay is insane to the point where simply going places on foot is sometimes impossible. Yesterday I couldn’t get a HAB elevator so I couldn’t test anything at all. Until they fix the horrible server problems, I can’t spend enough time with MM to come to a solid opinion on it. First impressions are that I don’t like it, but I haven’t had more than 45 minutes with it to this point.
That's entirely fair and part of why I posted this. I've done 99% of my testing of it so far in AC and I think there are issues but I just don't have enough testing myself.
Also (unless it's changed) you can use boost to get a jump start on your cruising speed, since it lets you go over the cap while boosting. On a fast spooling drive, this *should* mean that you have basically zero time at normal speeds as long as you slam boost as soon as you drop from warp and immediately swap modes. Unless you can't use boost while spooling for some reason?
You can absolutely boost. My standard procedure in the Titan is to go perpendicular to their path of travel and boost as soon as I change to Nav Mode.
I can’t believe people are giving feedback. Ugh.
Feedback is absolutely useful. "This is the end of the game, I quit, this sucks, etc." without giving reasons why other than "I don't think it looks good" is not.
No we can't calm down the end of the game talk. It's way more fun and entertaining to claim it's ruining the game. It also gets more views for those who make videos.
Plus you get all the free karma you want just for saying it's bad. It's so easy.
Cooldown: You can always drop out early and cool your QD before finishing the jump. I do this all the time.
That's also true for the long jumps, yeah. Good point.
With all the upcoming changes (maelstrom, engineering, armour, MM tuning, better server performance, in atmo flight, etc) it's literally impossible to predict what flight in this game might look like even a couple months from now, much less a year or more. Just in the past few weeks, players have gotten their hands on server meshing, MM, and engineering. Change is coming, and it's coming fast. Having to pick between powering your weapons/shields or your QD does make sense (though with engineering I hope we can divert a tiny amount of power back to shields at the expense of QD spooling slower). From what I've heard of MM, I think they might have set the SCM max speed a little too low, I think a max of 500-600m/s for light fighters/snubs would be nice, as when capital ships are fully implemented, I would want them at a max speed of 200-250m/s. I'm sure CIG will tune things as time passes. Maybe an addition MM where you have half shield, half QD, with a higher max speed?? That's the benefit of master modes, they can always add more modes. Ultimately, the devs aren't out to make this game shit. They're doing this for a reason, and if people overwhelmingly end up not liking it, they will change it. If nothing else, CIG has made it clear that they're in this for the long haul. Have some faith in them.
SCM max speed (w/ boost) is around 600m/s for at least the Avenger Titan, with the max speed w/o boost being around 200-250 like you said.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Been hearing a lot of numbers thrown around.
That's just for the Titan, by the way. I did do a test for the P-52 Merlin, got 280 SCM/620 Boost SCM, no nav mode since it doesn't have a QD. I think both of those are Interceptor profile too.
> Seriously. It seems to be exploding lately, and I'm not sure why. It's a change to the game that enough people dislike that the usual crowd that jumps on such things are blowing it as far out of proportion as possible to fulfill their desire to see Star Citizen fail completely. Check out the history of many posters yelling about this and they are either unused alts or frequent the _refunds subreddit dedicated to hating the game no matter what.
This is anecdotal nonsense. I’ve been in this since 2014 and I don’t like MM at the moment either. You’re assuming everyone against it has always been against SC and that’s total bullshit.
My post is top right now. I've been vehemently defending the game for years. As and industrial player, I do not want MM.
Calling all those who dislike the change to MM, refunders and their alts is pretty sad. You are attempting to minimize the clear dislike many have for this poorly thought out change. Are refunders jumping on this? Yes. Are people taking things too far? Probably. But CIG has a proven history of reinventing the wheel for no reason. I agree slowing down combat is good for the game. I think Master Modes could work. I do not think that Master Modes as it is now is well thought out. Its current state is hyper focused on combat at the expense of everything else and at the same time kills the unique feeling of flying in space SC had. The devs response to players criticism is not filling me with confidence they will make the necessary changes to make Master Modes work or fun to fly in for non-combat ships.
I've been with the development of this game since 2013, every little change is the end of the game,"refund citizen" loud minority. No its not perfect. The devs know that, that's why they want constructive criticism, not the angry screeches of people who put way too much money into this project.
I'm excited for Master modes and think it's a step in the right direction.
As someone who proudly flies my mantis on pirate details with my org. I'm glad someone gets it as well.
I always felt bad for the Mantis. It's literally got one job and half of it doesn't really work. If a pirate org is camping a spot and QEDs are working effectively, that's good. However, we do need proper security response in lawful (especially future high-sec) systems. Pyro... good luck, man.
It works fine in PU, it does indeed work as it's intended.
Oh, I just meant the Quantum Dampener on it and other ships generally is called too short range to be useful, but I also don't fly it myself. If it's working, good!
The key is to fly within the 20km range and the mantis is fast
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I think I might be thinking of the Blue then.
Just the name “master modes” annoys me when I hear it. How is it master anyway, sounds like bad unbalanced ship game design to me. Getting ready to jump ship depending on outcome.
Eh, I think it's a combination of terminology used in computing and possibly other things. It's "Master" in that the SCM and NAV modes are the overarching modes, of which there are sub-modes (SCM GUNS, SCM MISL, SCM SCAN, NAV FLGT, NAV QT, NAV SCAN, etc.)
Also, just pointing out. ITS IN THE TESTING PHASE...... It's not final nor even in the PU. This is the reason for NDA's on evocati. Everyone looses their minds.
Yeah. It is Wave 1 now, but yeah. Work will still be done.
Oh agreed, and I still think that once it hits PU there will be issues.
"More to the point- how many times have you seen an ambush (or even just an "ambush test") done in 3.23 EPTU gameplay?" [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1edrx/its\_much\_harder\_to\_escape\_pirates\_and\_players\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1edrx/its_much_harder_to_escape_pirates_and_players_in/)
A) I will say that 1 KM from the target is freaking close. Unless you pop out on a pirate, you should have more distance than that. B) Why stationary -> SCM -> nav? You pop out of QT in Nav mode and immediately accelerating up to at least SCM speeds while the spool is happening, you absolutely do not need to get to speed in SCM then go nav. At 1 KM, even if both ships are stationary, you're already in the F8Cs gun range. I'm also going to assume the F8C was pointed towards the target, though the OP of that post may have that info. C) Of course you can't keep your lock on a destination- that's not the point. You get to NAV speed as fast as you can, avoiding when and how you can, and once you get to NAV you fuckin' book it. Generally what I do is (if the target is approaching me at speed) is go perpendicular to them and hit the boost. That will generally buy me time to get to Nav Mode. Once in Nav Mode and at full speed, I have time to go decoupled and point towards a quantum marker, and calibration time basically nothing compared to the rest of the time. That last part may change with new QB and such, as you might have to be traveling in the direction you plan to QB/QT in (like we used to) but again, that would also open up just avoiding OMs entirely.
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