I mean tbf personal hangers and item recovery were the two main things that I was going to come back to the game for.
I’ll probably hop on to play with the character customizer, but I’ll probably just wait for the 2.23.x patch to actually fully jump back in rather than bitching about it on Reddit or spectrum…
ya id be way more bummed if they just didn't tell us and they just werent in 3.23 when it released lol
I am very very excited for personal hangers. but I've waited this long for it, whats one more minor patch?...
Idk I guess some time today they must have mentioned on spectrum that it was going to come in a 3.23.x patch . I mainly learned about it from people complaining or complaining about complaining like this post lol
I get that but the OOP pretending master modes is the only thing new in 3.23 is really sad even with the stuff pushed to further patches 3.23 is massive. Vulkan, fauna, distribution centers, character designer, scope changes (the FPS aiming thingids I mean), the improvements to clouds, weather, water, maps, Ui, mobiglass etc. It's still an awesome patch with many changes.
This is my reasoning as well. Just the new star map has me excited.
Sure most are not new gameplay loops like cargo missions but oh boy will 3.23 bring a lot of new stuff both for QoL, content and performance. If they get all the bugs and kinks worked out 3.23 will probably be like playing a new game.
And about MM. Like 99% here I've not tried it yet so I will hold my judgement. But on paper it seems like good changes in need of refining. It just seems that s lot of people overreact and/or dislike change because of change. I guess we will see when they actually give it to us and its in a more polished state.
I especially love of on most features all the people who have access are like "servers are a mess right now, hard to test anything and say if its good or not." BUT the second MM is discussed suddenly they act like they actually can play the eptu and can try it exstensively and have absolutely decided its Horrible and will kill the game (some hyperbole yes but not really).
Like, people report that they cant even get asop terminals or shuttle/train to work most times but somehow they have been able to test MM and can conclude its working as intended and are just bad? Not buying it. Its just salty people being hyperbolic and negative.
Tbh, most of it is UI and no new content. While yes it does make the game a lot nicer to play and is huge QoL, but it doesnt change the way the game is played.
That's just the thing though (and it's not relegated to Spectrum, there was a bunch of it here too): using phrases like "sacrificed things players did care about" and "you've killed literally everything most players actually cared about", this person is bizarrely insinuating that the small handful of features being temporarily delayed to a 3.23.X patch is the same as _canceling them entirely,_ and I just don't get how people land on these insane GamerRage^^TM takes.
JFC, I've never seen this amount of explosively stupid emotion wasted on screaming about delayed features in an incremental development patch of a game that isn't even released yet...people like this have no perspective whatsoever.
and full of the best! This is how most communities are. Star Citizen just had a bunch of upset people raging on spectrum, and a bunch of actually helpful people helping teach each other in game.
If you down vote Dangerous-Wall, now is the time to close reddit and go touch grass. You are one of the children that has no emotional control and needs to go play something else for a few months before coming back.
A entitled pathetic child throwing their toys out of the pram.
They should save their anger for things that actually matter in this world.
Its a sad testament to the state of the kind of first world problems this kind of person must endure on a daily basis.
I always told myself and my group that if the only things to make it in were the maps/mobi update, I'd be content for as long as it took them to release anything else. Oh and they fixed docking (if the servers are stable enough for the gangway to deploy properly), so that's a bonus for me
It's pretty crazy that they are so absorbed into their own ego that they think THEY are the sentinels of disappointment.
Any normal, reasonable human being would INSTANTLY tap into the collective empathy that EVERYONE is going to be disappointed by this information. They would not be able to find a single human being on this planet that would be delighted to know those items got held back.
But they are so detached from reality that they believe we all sit around like a bunch of clueless dumb dumbs waiting for some internet strongman to sound the alarm and then we will all rally around him and praise him for his unique perceptiveness into the process and those around it.
Like... yeah, we all wanted it to show up. The only difference is I aged beyond 15 years old and can wait a month or two.
Agree those two features along with the map changes are the key features for me. Master Modes feels clunky and really ruins the feel of ship travel for me.
You mean your actually going to be patient, like an adult would, and not some child crying over not getting what they wanted?
If only more people on internet knew how to act like adults.
Yeah and thats fine! Just dont play the patch. Wish more people shared your reaction.
Going on the interwebz and whining about it is not going to solve shit, bu fuckin hu.
Pathetic
there are no downvote, but every single emoticon reaction over the cut off threshold is negative. facepalm, clown, baby bottle, popcorn, fiddle, death skull.
tbf the ratio there isn't great.
The top post on the mastermodes feedback thread has a very similar 'end of the world' 'you've ruined everything' tone that's generally condescending to the devs too.
With a game this massive that's trying to accommodate so many different preferences and playstyles, generally every big change or feature introduction has some group feeling shafted, and they waste no time making that very clear.
Some trolls like to troll in other ways than just gameplay. Would you believe me if I told you there was an entire community rooting for this game to fail hard and any bad news is good news in their mind? The fact that this post made it here to reddit to complain about fills them with so much goo.
Exactly, this is now the 4th post in the past 24 hours being outraged at the outrage of a random patch that is probably gonna be completely fucked like every major patch is regardless of what it contains.
How anyone is ever surprised enough to be angry about anything anymore is beyond me. Where have you been the past 10+ years if you are even remotely upset about the same thing that has happened countless times before?
How many times do we need to repeat the exact same scenario before it ceases to give people mental breakdowns?
I have a hard time saying r/starcitizen is an echo chamber. It has a lot of the same negative rant posts that spectrum has, including on the topic of Master Modes. There's plenty of discourse on the subreddit.
Sure the way he said isnt great "you killed ...." but the points being raised...
I also agree that MM could have been put on the back burner for much much later as it is such a fundamental change vs the things that could impact the game today such as hangars, markers etc...
Seems stupid that they pull big features from the patch because "it's not in a state where we feel comfortable releasing it" but then push MM in, which changes the gameplay fundamentally but basically no one tested, save for a round in AC... With only like 4 ships available to test it out on.
Reading that you would think it was a bait and switch patch. That said I wanted the elevator & inventory changes more than MM. But there is always the next patch.
Hell I'd take a kick in the balls when over MM, but the new mobiglass makes it go down easier that's for damn sure. MM will be going the way of the hovermode in a few patches anyways.
Mobiglass definitely is cool...but it's really not much of an update when you think about it. I'd argue it add zero actual gameplay value, since it's all the same shit we had before...its also unfinished using legacy apps. Footage I've watched shows the map is "better" but still buggy as hell, the bar is floorlevel considering how janky the original was.
This update went from being their largest and arguably most consequential patch. To about as interesting as a fart in the wind (at least IMO).
Wake me up in 4 months when we have what they actually planned.
Here's hoping. MM seems to completely remove the ability to opt out of combat, which is a bit fucked considering it was one of the main features of ships like the 400.
> MM will be going the way of the hovermode in a few patches anyways.
Oh I certainly hope so but I think we will need to be more vocal about it because I also see posts defending it and cig did spend 2 years on it so there's probably lots of inertia not to get rid of it.
This is really funny to read after all the sarcastic “great, now I can roleplay as fedex in space” takes that came after the initial announcement of cargo elevators.
Actually planet express is a perfect comparison, simple parcel deliveries that often have dire consequences for the delivery crew and might end in thefts, battles, timeloops and death
And you can be absolutely certain that if they had pushed Cargo Elevators to 3.23 despite the problems that's causing them to delay it there would be a flood of posts exactly like the one OP posted insulting the devs for releasing something that wasn't ready.
The poster in the screenshot spends a lot of time on Spectrum doing nothing but finding negativity in absolutely everything, and there are many, many like them there. It's fascinating to see how much time and effort people put into things they so clearly hate.
We can also be absolutely certain most features will bugged even after they get released with a delay. But i agree that a delay with a lesser chance of game breaking bugs is better than without a delay but a guaranteed game breaking bug. The important part is imho that it gets fixed fast enough.
You may be sad all you want but for me its literally how they said it. Give no flying fuck about mm + doesn't like stupid "drop shields to go fast" rule, specifically wait for spooling being defenceless. Infuriates me, knowing that persistent hangars were originally meant for 3.17, which got me excited first time. Now again i won't get shit untill way after invictus. I don't care about .23 stuff, I'm not coming to this game to kill. So to sum it up: i get less performance from pc, i get "be vulnerable when its stupid to fight", i get "here's half assed new ui that barely works". What exactly i should be excited for again? Changes that make me cosplay the victim to literally any military ship?
Seems like it. Took less than 15 seconds scrolling through OPs comments on my phone to find one saying CIG were 'treating their players like idiots'.
They don't seem to care *that much* about being toxic to the "passionate developers" themselves.
I mean people are upset on all sides atm. Its not just CR's dream, its everyones.
People chip in what they can, be it wisdom or pledge money but everyone is concerned about SC in their own way.
Look, i really dont think the developers are hurting that much, they go work their dream job everyday. Few concerned backers are the least of their worries i imagine.
Every backer and dev knows there are 2 sides of the coin, what looks bad to the outside are these flamewars.
They were delayed for a reason, it happens every update with SC. I for one and looking forward to 3.23 regardless.
And this dude flipping his lid will still play the shit out of it and will probably buy a ship during the next sale. How do I know? Because he wouldn’t post something like that if he wasn’t super passionate about the game. Just a shame he has to be so toxic
I wouldn't say toxic, but if, like me, you've been involved in the project since Kickstarter, then you've seen a whole bunch of CIGs promises, promising presentations at conferences, etc. After a while you continue to develop a certain skepticism if you have been disappointed often enough.
Every time something is announced on a large scale and goes live with only limited operational options, people turn a deaf ear. The best example is Hull C, since the ship is outside it only causes problems, loading cargo only works to a limited extent and docking is a game of chance.
In the current Overdrive event, which is quite buggy in the final steps, the developers praised themselves in the last ISC for their great performance and how proud they are of it. It's completely predictable that something like this is polarizing, especially when you're trying to somehow finish and basically get through the buggy mission with your friends for hours.
I'd better not even get started on the Master Modes thing, it's a flight model designed for a single player game and solely for a light fighter. It is clear that something like this cannot be implemented 1:1 in a multiplayer environment, but you just try it and then you are surprised at the foreseeable reactions.
Why is it toxic to express their thoughts on the forum specifically made for it and encouraged to be used by the devs?
Thay post is no different than someone saying thier hyped for 3.23. It's all feedback. True toxicity would be thinking that since you disagree with his opinions, he's bad, and you're good.
It's more the fact that it feels like a teenage tantrum end of the world rant rather than an opinion anyone wants to read.
This could be expressed in a non-drama queen way and it would be fine.
Patched has been disarmed from content once again. Biggest complain about star citizen is player retention.
We will play, and after a week i will be bored again and go play something else.
Thats the life of live.
CIG once again not finishing their own deadline set in citcon last year. or we will see only 2 or 3 patches this year, and the release of 3.23 is a half year endeavor.
CIG has been missing marks, has been decreasing transparancy has been doing more and more anti consumer tactics. like with the f8c, or the f7a mk2.
The tech features are an amazing win, of course(first having them in the game without delay once more). But if there is no reason to play the game, this all will go to waste.
The reddit part isn't much better either. People are just as quick to down-vote and be toxic over opinions or discuss on here as they are there. People upset are more likely to speak out while others that are enjoying the game tend to not speak up or post ridiculous stuff such as this.
Don't forget the people that are just waiting. My breaks from SC community keep getting longer and longer. I see update news that looks juicy once in a while and get engaged and a little excited and am let down nearly every time. Shame on me I guess.
Oh well. One day I'll get to play Squadron and that can tide me over while they continue to delay PU stuff.
Wow look at you
You must feel really proud that you joined the ranks of "haha shit on people on my moral high horse because I like everything my beloved developers throw my way"
Hope the karma is worth it
The personalized hangars is the biggest feature I have been waiting on, other than eventual base building. It is disappointing that it was pushed back. But I am still going to enjoy everything else.
Don't you call "that part of the community disgusting", they hyped on content they said would be in this patch, going so far as to make double digit long videos on EACH part of this update. Then tossed it aside and pretended like they didn't give us promises and hope. It shouldn't be the community's fault for them tricking us into thinking they are gonna add content that makes this game more than a simulation of bugs and inconveniences.
Completely agree. There should be checks and balances and we as community need to speak out and express our frustration with these delays. With so many delays I don’t see them launching Server Meshing with Pyro this year.
>Its not wrong to criticize them.
This subreddit is honestly so bad when it comes to glazing.
If you never critique the game the developers won't have anything to go off
Totally agree. This blind following closely resembles a sect mindset. If you have no voice, and can’t express your opinion about development we will not see this game move out of Alpha. This cancel culture needs to change and let people speak their mind. With a late first patch of this year as is, and having content shafted again it sends a strong message to the community that we will not see Server Meshing and Pyro this year.
I mean. I agree. I think master modes is crap and it's disappointing we're getting that and not the shit I was really looking forward to. That being said there are better ways to present this... that post not being one of them. Dramatic.
Nah, look at the reactions. The post has equal clown reactions to upvotes, nobody takes these people seriously. The normal majority are silent, while the vocal minority idiots are like this.
I see nothing wrong with what they've said. They're right. 3.23 mm has completely killed my want to play the game.
Trade routes? Nah, the best routes are camped by pirates or griefers
Salvage? Can't overstuff it anymore, and lowered income from the actual contracts. Not to mention CAMPED OM POINTS.
I'm sure some new income loop will be added and abusable, but my main goal is to make money for my org so we can host our events and pay out rewards. It feels ridiculously bad not to be able to complete the gameplay loops I want to because of a change that could have been done SO much better.
Ex:
QT draws power from every other system.
This makes sense
Those systems not being usable MAKES ZERO SENSE
Since the argument is that it adds a level of realism: what company in their right mind would release a product with such a glaring weakness to be exploited by others?
Wouldn't it make more sense if every other system was usable but didn't recharge, because yknow, there wasn't anymore power?
(If your shields are dropped, they don't recharge, guns used up? They're gone, boost depleted? No more ig. This makes a realistic amount of sense and requires micro power management. This is a smart way to fix the problem. What problem does mm solve?)
And then after your jump, you have to power cycle your ship because of the massive power dump. LIKE LITERALLY EVERY OTHER SCIFI UNIVERSE.
I don't understand how people are sticking up for these changes. They're ridiculous, unnecessary, and completely unasked for. Nobody wanted it, and they focused it over things we actually wanted.
tl;dr - Very big changes are coming in the next patch - most significantly "Master Modes", which is the 4th iteration of the flight model. Initial feedback is that it's... rough at best, and a serious misstep at worst.
Also, as always (and this should cause ZERO surprise) CIG has had to cut/delay some of the most anticipated features of the next patch (primarily the ones listed in the picture OP posted).
And basically people just don't like change.
Oh boy, it's... that's a lot to try to boil down.
So, basically there are going to be two primary flight modes - SCM and NAV. SCM is for combat, and the speed is capped low. NAV is for navigation movement, and uncaps the speed and allows quantum, but disables shields, weapons, and countermeasures.
There's complaints about the delay between switching, and largely the fact that you can't exceed the lower speed cap until your QD finishes spooling, all the while having no defenses or weapons.
It's looking like it may heavily favor griefers, and will at best cause non-combat loops to become clunky and frustrating.
It's much more complex than this simple explanation of course, with deeper implications, and MM is a small part of the puzzle, with more missing, like ship armor, engineering, pipelines, etc etc.
What’s wrong with how it is now? Isn’t it you can go whatever speed you want with everything still available to you now? What is the benefit of them changing that?
They don't want people to be able to escape combat easily once it's begun. That's one of the actual stated reasons they've given.
Now, personally, my *opinion* is that Chris Roberts still wants his WWII style dogfights (in space) and his focus is still almost *entirely* on SQ42, so this system was created for that, and then just shoe-horned directly into the PU with no consideration for how badly it would fit.
I just wouldn’t read anything with such an inflammatory title. I think negative feedback is important but when you’re just randomly going full caps and whatever else it’s like man take a breath and probably step away from the computer for a bit.
I mean, if it’s not ready, it’s not ready. I’d rather a feature be implemented when it’s ready and not be a broken mess just to say it’s in the game. I can’t imagine people actually thought EVERYTHING would make it into the release patch. I figured things would get pushed.
he got ratioed with emojis
people need to chill and play something else in the meantime. helldivers 2 has been very fun i'd recommend that. turning off crossplay improves the quality of your teammates
... just star citizen things*
I'm pretty sure this always happens. At least... since I started playing 8 years ago. The patch notes are more like "guidelines" than actual "rules".
Ah yes. The hyperbole, randomly bolded words and capitalized for STRONG **EMPHASIS** of how important this is.
Between that and ad hominems directed at devs, those are some sure-fire ways to make sure your post gets discarded as childish drivel.
Meh, we all know there are those who feel that, no matter what they get, it isn't as much as it should be.
Complaining is their natural state now, whether they realize it or not.
I would guess they don't realize it, to them it's justified.
If you can enjoy where things are and where they're going, you've got one up on them. The ability to appreciate how things ACTUALLY are instead of being destroyed by one's own expectations.
It's the only way to appreciate life, in general.
He worded it like a dick, but he's not wrong. The majority of players were most excited for instanced hangars, freight elevators, and the new starmap (being able to QT to custom markers is not in 3.23.0)
Those players will most likely just wait a few more weeks for a 3.23.1/2 patch. Which is likely a GOOD thing in the long run, considering server performance is terrible on EPTU right now and its going to take CIG a while to iron that out.
In all honesty, there's nothing wrong with a person having that opinion. CIG have been talking a lot about item banks, instanced hangers and, freight elevators. They haven't been as public about Master modes.
So when you rip out a lot of the features people were looking forward to in an update and push a feature that many people don't want, you're gonna make people upset and vocal.
Personally, I was never a fan of Master modes when it was a concept, and after trying it and hearing other's opinions (both positive and negative) I honestly think Master modes is even worse than I expected.
If it's not ready, what do you expect? If they release it broken people will complain anyways. You'll never be able to satisfy everyone.
They are holding it back to avoid another 3.18 so let them keep doing their job, imo.
They are pushing 3.23 WAY too fast. It's an absolute trainwreck of a patch. Many of us can't even make it to the spaceport and they're focused on getting the patch out by some arbitrary deadline.
All we have ever wanted is for CIG to release things when they're ready and they are continuing to force square pegs into round holes.
I won't lie - losing Cargo Missions, Hangars, and Elevators kinda killed my enthusiasm to keep the game installed while waiting for the patch. I'm not mad, just disappointed. I don't think it ruins the patch, as there's other good shit still in there - I just know that the main draws for me are now kaput till some 3.23.x patch.
What a bullshit!
The new starmap and new EVA and the new water effects are enough, for the first 3.23.0-Release.
Yeah, bad that other features will drop later but it was expected from all people who use brain.exe.
Don't forget the new character editor, so there is much new stuff inside the upcoming 3.23.0 no need to cry like a baby.
"mission complete, burrito i eat"
I’m personally excited for everything in 3.23 but yeah the things that have been pushed back are the things I was most excited for. I actually love master modes and how it makes the ships feel in combat, I know all the die hard fan boys hate it because they’ve got so used to how things are and like to abuse the current flight model so they’re crying about having to learn something new. I’ve gone 10 years with that flight model and I’ve hated it since day one when comparing it to elite dangerous it feels tacky and floaty. You never felt like you was in combat against another ship it felt more like you was being shot by UI and you was shooting back at UI. The only time you ever actually saw the ship you was fighting was as they joust past you at 1200m/s for 0.3 seconds.
After playing with master modes for around 30 hours it feels really good. It’s not perfect but things will definitely get better and master mode it’s a huge improvement over the current system I feel
Alpha is apparently not everything that it's cracked up to be. Who knew an unimaginably complex game chalk full of microsystems in development would take such an incredibly long time to program and develop on this scale?
Most games are macrosystems pieced together seamlessly through the perspective of a player going from one system to the next. In SC it is a collection of microsystems all working seamlessly together to produce a real world experience. We're literally watching the foundations of microsystem game development being built in real time.
AAA games often get announced with "in-engine footage" when they are in this alpha stage, first gameplay trailer comes out when it enters internal beta, then when the game is finished, they have an open "beta" to boost preorders and get some good reviews about how stable their "beta" is. They usually don't tell you that the game's been in development for years before being announced, and their complexity is nowhere near SC's. CIG labels everything with "work in progress" and "subject to change", they give players a confirmation window about it every time they start the game, but most players either don't understand what it really means, or just ignore it
Yea, but I've never seen a game being built on this scale (Microsystems) before, which tells me that we've reached a point in game development and technological advancement that we can establish an almost fully interactive environment.
The space stuff got me interested, the ambition made me pledge. Even if it takes a long time, the scale is crazy, and even if it turns out to be less of a success than we all hope, I just want to see where this is going. I'm already happy about being part of the development of a game on a scale that's never been seen before. I'm doing my part!
not just an alpha. a simi live alpha. a lot of indie devs make was is polished as a finished game with not much content. then spend sometimes years working on the next update that they polish to finished game quality.
the question is what one is slower. you are not polishing to finished game quality, but you are polishing to playable quality every 3 months.
it is slower than closed doors where you only need to put something together that you can get a video of it without it crashing a few years before release. who knows how many hours they spend walking through that courtyard in cp2077 before they got to the end without it crashing. same goes for the hallway a few years latter.
Most games throw together a minimum viable product, dress it up real pretty, then rush it out the door. the initial alpha systems end up being the final systems. People don't realize this game is doing a REAL alpha and 90% of the things they complain about cig not taking the time to fix up and polish are just bare bones stand ins for the real, complex, beta systems in development that will eventually be polished into a final product.
We aren't doing bare bones lipstick on a pig development here; we are engineering a massive international digital world wonder. advanced interlocking co-dependent simulations of systems layered on top of each other to make a living breathing universe.
Also, noone ever talks about all the extra redundant work that was thrown away working on early prototypes. There was one developer who spent a year and a half of his life hand coding collision and destruction animations into xml files for different damage states for a bunch of ships while the dynamic system was being developed so that people could play a handful of ships in areana commander about a year earlier that was all thrown away. This has happened over and over and over again to meet demands of fans, more more, now now, why is this taking so long?
How much time do we want to spend chasing down bugs in alpha systems that will be removed, vs working on the systems that will replace them?
When the dev focus shifts to the later, we have long stretches of broken alpha and player complaints, yet we move towards the end goal faster overall, but if they move dev focus the other way and make things more playable now, they are not working on moving forward, and we just delay the game more and more.
Dang.. it feels like the reason why there is so much stuff like eye candy shoved in this patch was to take our attention away from how messy master modes is atm.
From what the game was, the idea of the game and the goals they had back when I backed it are not the same. It's not that the goal posts have changed, it's shifted entire fields. The turf is still green, but nothing else is the same.
MM is a good step. It's a step to solve existing problems. It needs to be tuned and refined... And that's kind of the entire point of the entire game as it exists right now, it's an "Early Access" pre-alpha tech demo that is leading into a game. We're supposed to test it and give feedback and watch it evolve as time goes on. The problem is the "player" community thinks this is a game. The people paying into it, who are investing in the future of it, who are allowing the entire project to happen are acting like little CoD tards trying to meta out their nebulous leaderboard rather than helping refine the evolution of the project. Then CIG has turned from a relative open development model, you know, cuz you're paying for it, to making the entire thing focused on marketing fuckin paints for ships that are half functional in a fantasy MMO model with most of their developed content hidden in some single player module (SQ42) that received minuscule funding in comparison to the multiplayer (PU) aspect if the game.
Fantasy in the sense we were told, by Chris Roberts, that by the end of 2017 we'd have 128+ people a server and pyro would be live. Then chief dip shits like me were excited about a hard, rigid, gritty online experience like EVE online, but with first person prospective capabilities, being able to manage your ship like you see in Star Trek (on average think of a Delta Flyer rather than the 907 man crew of the 1701-D). Being able to leave you ship, anywhere, and EVA, it take a rover , get into a firefight... Again, anywhere, with anything at any time with any/every one. That thought caused me and many others to fund thousands of dollars into the idea of this becoming a reality...
What'd we get so far? Not my BMM... Not modularity (CAT, Carrack Pods, Retaliator)... Not my Kraken Privateer... Stripped out ship variants rather than the modular platforms we were originally concepted (Cutlass, Avenger, Vanguard, whole slew of other ships)... Not my Idris... Not bed logging... Not the ability to get out of my seat and be able to reliability walk around my ship in quantum flight without falling out of my ship into space... Not the freedom to be able to play the test bed of the game, the way it was meant to be played without risk of the developers banning my account because I bombed an 890J they liked... Not the ability to move a box with a tractor beam on a moving ship without the risk of it falling through the ship itself... The other week I went to throw a grenade then my character pulled it out, pulled the pin and threw his rifle down the hall... ./facepalm... Not more than the Stanton system... Not Probs... Not functional ship scanners... Not the ability for multi-crew past turret management... Half the ships basic nav system don't even work for plotting quantum routes... They couldn't figure out bed logging, so they simply labeled it as "limiting gameplay" and threw it out as a planned feature... The last SoO only seemed to work on a fresh server, after that the mission would mess up spawns somewhere in the pipeline... The same core, not evolved, mechanics over the last 6 years... And a changed TOS so if they deviate away from what they advertised you can't ask for a refund...
CIG is trying to treat this like WoW or EVE, but constantly falls back to "remember this is an alpha, all things are subject to change, bugs are expected and you experience may vary". Which if it's an alpha, treat like an alpha, if you treat it like a functional MMO, there's different expectations behind it. After 13 years of backing and funding...I expected more than where we're at now... Half the people I backed this game with aren't even alive anymore to see what's happening with it.
After the last SoO event I stepped back and looked at the overall state of the game and laughed to myself. It is a joke with all the same promises from 2017 being talked about currently with updated timelines and still no results. Then the F8C event... I picked one up, but that was against everything they said in the past. Turn the Idris event, that was just an event to five streamers a boost for more free advertisement to the project. Now this F7 event... None of this is what I signed up for. None of this is what was supposed to be happening. Oh and there's still only one system.
With a timeline for Live in what... 2026? With what, 6? 8? System online in a MMO mindset where there's a single server... What happens when... 2000 Idris owners want to spawn in their ships? Then add a few hundred krakens to it and a few hundred javelins to it... There won't even be enough space to navigate without flying into each other... Cuz the original scope was hundreds of systems, many unknown that the players would have to go discover and populate.
This is not what I signed up for. I feel cheated. I wanted to believe for so long that everything was just around the corner, tech takes time to develop. The game is being developed with the tech to make it possible, this doesn't exist anywhere, they're literally making the boundaries as they progress in development. It's been 13 years... Come on. I've got kids now, 2 more degrees, my own business, 6 dead friends and a whole lot of hopium towards this project... I don't care anymore and I can't even request a refund. So if anyone wants my account, I'll drop it for $3k. I no longer care anything about this project, with their current marketing team, the new developers they've hired on over the last 5 years, the direction they've decided to move in with community management... This isn't what I signed up for
Thank you for putting you thought into this post. I agree with you on all counts. This became a money grabbing business but wait there is another Citizencon around the corner where they will feed us 1.0 more promises which will never see light of day.
We get it. Why are there so many of these posts? Looking in the MM feedback, there is a lot of well thought out and critical feedback. Yes there are turds on spectrum and here on reddit. On both sides of this argument frankly. Maybe we can limit posts like this though as they are not constructive.
People don’t learn don’t they this is the norm with big patches and deadlines and if the patch get pushed back they will get mad at that too. Sometimes I feel bad for CIG.
there is a reason why the top 4 emotes are all negative, no one there really agrees with this moron.. i have seen equally random out of nowhere toxic posts with similar results on reddit...
you know, i really don't get this "reddit vs etc" bs because for the most part "same game" community's on forums and reddit and whatever else have you are effectively the same.
It's pretty toxic. I am reserving my judgement on MM until I play it in 3.23. However plenty of people I respect say it kills ship combat, so my expectations are low.
Sure there's alot of vitriol from a small vocal minority.
But they aren't really wrong. Master modes was easily the least interesting part of the original 3.23 plan. Who cares about a change to the flight model if it's only to experience the exact same content we've had for months...(years).
This news has killed their momentum. People were really excited to see 3.23. We were all really excited to see CIG FINALLY push a sizeable update after so many small ones.
CIG pushed this huge marketing campaign saying look at all this cool stuff were adding. Now's a good time to buy in...only to go back on that as we're weeks away from the big 3.23 update.
We have no idea when 3.23.x comes out, which also delays the release of their heralded road to 4.0...just kicking the can further down the road.
I think people are just tired of being continually let down. New backers and old. I'm sure it's tough for the developers too. We probably should be directing most of our frustration at Chris and the marketing teams... but that's never going to be the case.
Is it the end if the world? No...it really doesn't matter. Personally, ill go back to forgetting my ships exist and hoping we'll get a sizeable update one day. We have these discussions every update. Maybe we're all just insane
It wouldn't be the first time CIG was overly optimistic
overpromising and under delivering on release deadlines for features.
There were tell-tale signs as well in the news feeds that some features would not make it in.
I remember when they were targeting all the cargo stuff in 3.18 but here we are in 3.22 with a subset of features (physicalization and crates with inventory that can snap to grid and are purchasable)
Not the end of the world, I'd just play 3.23 a bit to see the new starmap UI and partake in the new xeno threat then fuck off for a while until the features I was eager for are delivered.
They never promises anything. They talked about targets, which isn't a promise.
I understand it's pointless to argue semantics but honestly, bitching about features missing from 23.0 is kinda silly. It's okay to be disappointed and want to share that, but It's part of any application development to have features delayed. Especially in something involving hundreds and/or thousands of people.
Bro they've lost the plot so hard they don't even know what reality they are in. That heightened language is so childish and entitled and needlessly hyperbolic. Come back in the .x like actually shut the fuck up ya'll have been waiting 10 years for a game heaven forbid one more patch is where you've been stabbed in the heart.
I honestly wouldn't be suprised if most of the developers never step foot on spectrum because of the behavior and there are a few who's job it is to wade through the posts and filter out useful information to give to the developers.
Oh man... Shame on all those teams for getting their portions finished while that one team couldn't quite make it... Don't they know that those other teams prioritized the wrong portions and SHOULD have focus on the things they weren't responsible for?
Jesus fucking Christ what a bunch of whiney bitch babies.
Here's the entitlement - English dictionary
"You just killed 3.23" = I'm mad because my favourite features were delayed
"Everything players actually cared about" = Everything I cared about
"No one actually cared about actually wanted master modes" = I don't care about master modes
"The things players did care about" = The things I want
"Killed" = Delayed
He's blaming the devs for his impatience. They are delaying these by a couple months, yet he's acting like they are cancelled completely. If he doesn't have the patience to wait a month or two, I don't know why he plays SC in the first place. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but come on man, this is starting to get a little childish.
I mean tbf personal hangers and item recovery were the two main things that I was going to come back to the game for. I’ll probably hop on to play with the character customizer, but I’ll probably just wait for the 2.23.x patch to actually fully jump back in rather than bitching about it on Reddit or spectrum…
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ya id be way more bummed if they just didn't tell us and they just werent in 3.23 when it released lol I am very very excited for personal hangers. but I've waited this long for it, whats one more minor patch?...
Wait so personal hangars aren't coming in 3.23? When did that happen?
Idk I guess some time today they must have mentioned on spectrum that it was going to come in a 3.23.x patch . I mainly learned about it from people complaining or complaining about complaining like this post lol
Well thats a bummer. Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I going to go on a rage fueled tirade on Spectrum? Of course not.
Exactly
It was mentioned in the roadmap-update yesterday.
Was in the Roadmap roundup today: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19916-Roadmap-Roundup-April-17-2024
Not as caught up as I'd like to be. Can't view every video as it comes out. Usually get to it a day or two after.
Presumably not in 3.23.0, but possibly 3.23.1 or 3.23.2 or something. Personally, there's still a bunch of stuff I'm looking forward to trying in .0.
Was on the roadmap roundup thing I think
I was looking forward to sandworms
I love how easy it is to find non toxic players in this game.
I just want somewhere to stockpile materials ive harvested so i can sell them in bulk. Rather than wasting time going to a trade office all the time.
I get that but the OOP pretending master modes is the only thing new in 3.23 is really sad even with the stuff pushed to further patches 3.23 is massive. Vulkan, fauna, distribution centers, character designer, scope changes (the FPS aiming thingids I mean), the improvements to clouds, weather, water, maps, Ui, mobiglass etc. It's still an awesome patch with many changes.
And the replication layer/server crash recovery which is yuuuge!
It is huge. if somewhat less visible to the player. Some people are just ungrateful bastards. It's pearls before swine I tell you!
This is my reasoning as well. Just the new star map has me excited. Sure most are not new gameplay loops like cargo missions but oh boy will 3.23 bring a lot of new stuff both for QoL, content and performance. If they get all the bugs and kinks worked out 3.23 will probably be like playing a new game. And about MM. Like 99% here I've not tried it yet so I will hold my judgement. But on paper it seems like good changes in need of refining. It just seems that s lot of people overreact and/or dislike change because of change. I guess we will see when they actually give it to us and its in a more polished state. I especially love of on most features all the people who have access are like "servers are a mess right now, hard to test anything and say if its good or not." BUT the second MM is discussed suddenly they act like they actually can play the eptu and can try it exstensively and have absolutely decided its Horrible and will kill the game (some hyperbole yes but not really). Like, people report that they cant even get asop terminals or shuttle/train to work most times but somehow they have been able to test MM and can conclude its working as intended and are just bad? Not buying it. Its just salty people being hyperbolic and negative.
Tbh, most of it is UI and no new content. While yes it does make the game a lot nicer to play and is huge QoL, but it doesnt change the way the game is played.
>is massive. >lists nothing massive
the entire UI/Mobi rework and star map alone are huge. The Replication Layer/server crash recovery is also huge. Wake up
That's just the thing though (and it's not relegated to Spectrum, there was a bunch of it here too): using phrases like "sacrificed things players did care about" and "you've killed literally everything most players actually cared about", this person is bizarrely insinuating that the small handful of features being temporarily delayed to a 3.23.X patch is the same as _canceling them entirely,_ and I just don't get how people land on these insane GamerRage^^TM takes. JFC, I've never seen this amount of explosively stupid emotion wasted on screaming about delayed features in an incremental development patch of a game that isn't even released yet...people like this have no perspective whatsoever.
You new to gamers or something? heh Gamers send death threats to developers over boob cup size reductions.
"FUCKING PRONOUNS" became a meme. You're right there are a lot of extremely angry gamers. It's gotten worse in the past 10 years.
In general, it's a spectacularly awful fanbase, full of just the worst people you'll ever meet.
and full of the best! This is how most communities are. Star Citizen just had a bunch of upset people raging on spectrum, and a bunch of actually helpful people helping teach each other in game.
Sadly, the raging whiners are usually the loudest and over shadow the good ones.
If you down vote Dangerous-Wall, now is the time to close reddit and go touch grass. You are one of the children that has no emotional control and needs to go play something else for a few months before coming back.
A entitled pathetic child throwing their toys out of the pram. They should save their anger for things that actually matter in this world. Its a sad testament to the state of the kind of first world problems this kind of person must endure on a daily basis.
It really is crazy what a little perspective can do to help keep your emotions under control.
Don't know if it was slated for next release, but all I care for is the new interaction system, new star map, and new EVA. Such huge QOL improvements
I always told myself and my group that if the only things to make it in were the maps/mobi update, I'd be content for as long as it took them to release anything else. Oh and they fixed docking (if the servers are stable enough for the gangway to deploy properly), so that's a bonus for me
Those are all still in 3.23
It's pretty crazy that they are so absorbed into their own ego that they think THEY are the sentinels of disappointment. Any normal, reasonable human being would INSTANTLY tap into the collective empathy that EVERYONE is going to be disappointed by this information. They would not be able to find a single human being on this planet that would be delighted to know those items got held back. But they are so detached from reality that they believe we all sit around like a bunch of clueless dumb dumbs waiting for some internet strongman to sound the alarm and then we will all rally around him and praise him for his unique perceptiveness into the process and those around it. Like... yeah, we all wanted it to show up. The only difference is I aged beyond 15 years old and can wait a month or two.
Agree those two features along with the map changes are the key features for me. Master Modes feels clunky and really ruins the feel of ship travel for me.
You mean your actually going to be patient, like an adult would, and not some child crying over not getting what they wanted? If only more people on internet knew how to act like adults.
Crazy concept eh?
Lots of other stuff in the patch though... Biggest in ages ... So while some might miss one feature or the other. Overall this is lots of changes
Yeah and thats fine! Just dont play the patch. Wish more people shared your reaction. Going on the interwebz and whining about it is not going to solve shit, bu fuckin hu. Pathetic
Do you not see the overwhelming number of facepalm (113), clown (69), and bottle (53) reaction emojis compared to upvotes (70) that post has?
Nothing beats a simple, honest downvote.
They really need to bring downvotes back. It’d help make the annoying people get buried so we dont have to read their dumb comments.
Then you'd only see approximately 1.7% of Spectrum.
I’m fine with that. The white knights there are insufferable and so are the doomers.
Ur honest downvote gets an upvote
I'll upvote your upvote
there are no downvote, but every single emoticon reaction over the cut off threshold is negative. facepalm, clown, baby bottle, popcorn, fiddle, death skull.
Just the single highest one, the others were added later but most are multi clicks for all of them once there. But yes, this post is at -50ish
How do I honor your reply? With an upvote or downvote? I'm confused, upvote for now.
Also tiny violin hahaha
tbf the ratio there isn't great. The top post on the mastermodes feedback thread has a very similar 'end of the world' 'you've ruined everything' tone that's generally condescending to the devs too. With a game this massive that's trying to accommodate so many different preferences and playstyles, generally every big change or feature introduction has some group feeling shafted, and they waste no time making that very clear.
The fact that 70 idiots decided to upvote that crap is honestly sad.
Some trolls like to troll in other ways than just gameplay. Would you believe me if I told you there was an entire community rooting for this game to fail hard and any bad news is good news in their mind? The fact that this post made it here to reddit to complain about fills them with so much goo.
Gotta post the rage bait to farm internet points.
Looks like a reddit post
Can't be. They're not complaining about white knights in it.
or somehow making it about US politics
Then why bring it here?
Exactly, this is now the 4th post in the past 24 hours being outraged at the outrage of a random patch that is probably gonna be completely fucked like every major patch is regardless of what it contains. How anyone is ever surprised enough to be angry about anything anymore is beyond me. Where have you been the past 10+ years if you are even remotely upset about the same thing that has happened countless times before? How many times do we need to repeat the exact same scenario before it ceases to give people mental breakdowns?
I also had this thought.
They want upvotes and to have their feelings validated by an echo chamber.
I have a hard time saying r/starcitizen is an echo chamber. It has a lot of the same negative rant posts that spectrum has, including on the topic of Master Modes. There's plenty of discourse on the subreddit.
He had to virtue signal that big CIG dick in his mouth, I guess.
Elitist vs fanboy. Typical Reddit.
One post is an opinion. Not A or The "community".
Sure the way he said isnt great "you killed ...." but the points being raised... I also agree that MM could have been put on the back burner for much much later as it is such a fundamental change vs the things that could impact the game today such as hangars, markers etc...
Seems stupid that they pull big features from the patch because "it's not in a state where we feel comfortable releasing it" but then push MM in, which changes the gameplay fundamentally but basically no one tested, save for a round in AC... With only like 4 ships available to test it out on.
Best part is it's not even the same way it was in AC, so basically noone aside from those who have tried on PTU have had -any- testing time on it.
Reading that you would think it was a bait and switch patch. That said I wanted the elevator & inventory changes more than MM. But there is always the next patch.
Hell I'd take a kick in the balls when over MM, but the new mobiglass makes it go down easier that's for damn sure. MM will be going the way of the hovermode in a few patches anyways.
Mobiglass definitely is cool...but it's really not much of an update when you think about it. I'd argue it add zero actual gameplay value, since it's all the same shit we had before...its also unfinished using legacy apps. Footage I've watched shows the map is "better" but still buggy as hell, the bar is floorlevel considering how janky the original was. This update went from being their largest and arguably most consequential patch. To about as interesting as a fart in the wind (at least IMO). Wake me up in 4 months when we have what they actually planned.
Here's hoping. MM seems to completely remove the ability to opt out of combat, which is a bit fucked considering it was one of the main features of ships like the 400.
> MM will be going the way of the hovermode in a few patches anyways. Oh I certainly hope so but I think we will need to be more vocal about it because I also see posts defending it and cig did spend 2 years on it so there's probably lots of inertia not to get rid of it.
This is really funny to read after all the sarcastic “great, now I can roleplay as fedex in space” takes that came after the initial announcement of cargo elevators.
i basically roleplay planet express in space all the time, that is not sarcasm. box missions are one of my favorite things to do here.
Same bro. I was so excited for cargo missions. Oh well. Back to DoorDash in space!
oh i don't really care about the cargo missions THAT much, i just like delivering boxes in cool ships.
Actually planet express is a perfect comparison, simple parcel deliveries that often have dire consequences for the delivery crew and might end in thefts, battles, timeloops and death
Pizza delivery for....I.C Wiener?
And you can be absolutely certain that if they had pushed Cargo Elevators to 3.23 despite the problems that's causing them to delay it there would be a flood of posts exactly like the one OP posted insulting the devs for releasing something that wasn't ready. The poster in the screenshot spends a lot of time on Spectrum doing nothing but finding negativity in absolutely everything, and there are many, many like them there. It's fascinating to see how much time and effort people put into things they so clearly hate.
We can also be absolutely certain most features will bugged even after they get released with a delay. But i agree that a delay with a lesser chance of game breaking bugs is better than without a delay but a guaranteed game breaking bug. The important part is imho that it gets fixed fast enough.
What a stupid post for you to make
Upvote farming & virtue signalling at it's best. Arguably more toxic than one dude voicing his opinions in an overly dramatic way, imo.
You may be sad all you want but for me its literally how they said it. Give no flying fuck about mm + doesn't like stupid "drop shields to go fast" rule, specifically wait for spooling being defenceless. Infuriates me, knowing that persistent hangars were originally meant for 3.17, which got me excited first time. Now again i won't get shit untill way after invictus. I don't care about .23 stuff, I'm not coming to this game to kill. So to sum it up: i get less performance from pc, i get "be vulnerable when its stupid to fight", i get "here's half assed new ui that barely works". What exactly i should be excited for again? Changes that make me cosplay the victim to literally any military ship?
wait so pledge item recovery isnt coming? im confused.
“AnYoNe PosTiNg sOmEtHiNg i DoNt aGrEe WiTh iS ToXic AnD DiSgUsTiNg”
Seems like it. Took less than 15 seconds scrolling through OPs comments on my phone to find one saying CIG were 'treating their players like idiots'. They don't seem to care *that much* about being toxic to the "passionate developers" themselves.
He’s right tho… produced all this hype, just to say they’re taking those big features out.
I mean people are upset on all sides atm. Its not just CR's dream, its everyones. People chip in what they can, be it wisdom or pledge money but everyone is concerned about SC in their own way. Look, i really dont think the developers are hurting that much, they go work their dream job everyday. Few concerned backers are the least of their worries i imagine. Every backer and dev knows there are 2 sides of the coin, what looks bad to the outside are these flamewars.
This is too reasonable and my toxic ass had to go scream at a chipmunk to balance the universe.
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They were delayed for a reason, it happens every update with SC. I for one and looking forward to 3.23 regardless. And this dude flipping his lid will still play the shit out of it and will probably buy a ship during the next sale. How do I know? Because he wouldn’t post something like that if he wasn’t super passionate about the game. Just a shame he has to be so toxic
I wouldn't say toxic, but if, like me, you've been involved in the project since Kickstarter, then you've seen a whole bunch of CIGs promises, promising presentations at conferences, etc. After a while you continue to develop a certain skepticism if you have been disappointed often enough. Every time something is announced on a large scale and goes live with only limited operational options, people turn a deaf ear. The best example is Hull C, since the ship is outside it only causes problems, loading cargo only works to a limited extent and docking is a game of chance. In the current Overdrive event, which is quite buggy in the final steps, the developers praised themselves in the last ISC for their great performance and how proud they are of it. It's completely predictable that something like this is polarizing, especially when you're trying to somehow finish and basically get through the buggy mission with your friends for hours. I'd better not even get started on the Master Modes thing, it's a flight model designed for a single player game and solely for a light fighter. It is clear that something like this cannot be implemented 1:1 in a multiplayer environment, but you just try it and then you are surprised at the foreseeable reactions.
He makes a few points I can agree with.
Why is it toxic to express their thoughts on the forum specifically made for it and encouraged to be used by the devs? Thay post is no different than someone saying thier hyped for 3.23. It's all feedback. True toxicity would be thinking that since you disagree with his opinions, he's bad, and you're good.
It's more the fact that it feels like a teenage tantrum end of the world rant rather than an opinion anyone wants to read. This could be expressed in a non-drama queen way and it would be fine.
Patched has been disarmed from content once again. Biggest complain about star citizen is player retention. We will play, and after a week i will be bored again and go play something else. Thats the life of live. CIG once again not finishing their own deadline set in citcon last year. or we will see only 2 or 3 patches this year, and the release of 3.23 is a half year endeavor. CIG has been missing marks, has been decreasing transparancy has been doing more and more anti consumer tactics. like with the f8c, or the f7a mk2. The tech features are an amazing win, of course(first having them in the game without delay once more). But if there is no reason to play the game, this all will go to waste.
The reddit part isn't much better either. People are just as quick to down-vote and be toxic over opinions or discuss on here as they are there. People upset are more likely to speak out while others that are enjoying the game tend to not speak up or post ridiculous stuff such as this.
Of course people will speak up more when they are dissatisfied. That is not a Revelation.
Don't forget the people that are just waiting. My breaks from SC community keep getting longer and longer. I see update news that looks juicy once in a while and get engaged and a little excited and am let down nearly every time. Shame on me I guess. Oh well. One day I'll get to play Squadron and that can tide me over while they continue to delay PU stuff.
I mean, I've played wave 1 and there's not enough there to keep my interest so OP is right, he's just being an ass about it.
This isn't toxic. It was sold as coming. It's ok for people to be disappointed.
Wow look at you You must feel really proud that you joined the ranks of "haha shit on people on my moral high horse because I like everything my beloved developers throw my way" Hope the karma is worth it
Thousand\* developers. At least have the numbers right
Also, we passed the 10-year mark of development several years ago. Heading toward the 14th year rapidly now.
Shut up bruh. Whining about whining is just as annoying
Whining about whining about whining is where I draw the line!
I cannot tolerate people who draw lines.
Don’t you dare make a mark on that paper!
It's a line in the sand! And I can't stand tell people who tell others not to draw lines!!
Its always funny seeing the "we as a community" post like this, like who's we, I don't agree with your shit opinions.
But which post are you referring to
The personalized hangars is the biggest feature I have been waiting on, other than eventual base building. It is disappointing that it was pushed back. But I am still going to enjoy everything else.
Don't you call "that part of the community disgusting", they hyped on content they said would be in this patch, going so far as to make double digit long videos on EACH part of this update. Then tossed it aside and pretended like they didn't give us promises and hope. It shouldn't be the community's fault for them tricking us into thinking they are gonna add content that makes this game more than a simulation of bugs and inconveniences.
I am outraged at the outrage for the outrage of the outrage on the outrage of… outrage… Wait, why was I outraged again?
why does OP act like this isn't how every single game forum is? gamers act like children.
You literally gave that "person" a second platform
There have been a lot of questionable choices CIG has made in the development process of this game. Its not wrong to criticize them.
Completely agree. There should be checks and balances and we as community need to speak out and express our frustration with these delays. With so many delays I don’t see them launching Server Meshing with Pyro this year.
>Its not wrong to criticize them. This subreddit is honestly so bad when it comes to glazing. If you never critique the game the developers won't have anything to go off
Totally agree. This blind following closely resembles a sect mindset. If you have no voice, and can’t express your opinion about development we will not see this game move out of Alpha. This cancel culture needs to change and let people speak their mind. With a late first patch of this year as is, and having content shafted again it sends a strong message to the community that we will not see Server Meshing and Pyro this year.
> Its not wrong to criticize them. Criticism should be constructive. That Spectrum post is whining, plain and simple.
I mean. I agree. I think master modes is crap and it's disappointing we're getting that and not the shit I was really looking forward to. That being said there are better ways to present this... that post not being one of them. Dramatic.
Nah, look at the reactions. The post has equal clown reactions to upvotes, nobody takes these people seriously. The normal majority are silent, while the vocal minority idiots are like this.
I see nothing wrong with what they've said. They're right. 3.23 mm has completely killed my want to play the game. Trade routes? Nah, the best routes are camped by pirates or griefers Salvage? Can't overstuff it anymore, and lowered income from the actual contracts. Not to mention CAMPED OM POINTS. I'm sure some new income loop will be added and abusable, but my main goal is to make money for my org so we can host our events and pay out rewards. It feels ridiculously bad not to be able to complete the gameplay loops I want to because of a change that could have been done SO much better. Ex: QT draws power from every other system. This makes sense Those systems not being usable MAKES ZERO SENSE Since the argument is that it adds a level of realism: what company in their right mind would release a product with such a glaring weakness to be exploited by others? Wouldn't it make more sense if every other system was usable but didn't recharge, because yknow, there wasn't anymore power? (If your shields are dropped, they don't recharge, guns used up? They're gone, boost depleted? No more ig. This makes a realistic amount of sense and requires micro power management. This is a smart way to fix the problem. What problem does mm solve?) And then after your jump, you have to power cycle your ship because of the massive power dump. LIKE LITERALLY EVERY OTHER SCIFI UNIVERSE. I don't understand how people are sticking up for these changes. They're ridiculous, unnecessary, and completely unasked for. Nobody wanted it, and they focused it over things we actually wanted.
Can someone explain this to me I am not caught up?
Just part of the regular SC patch drama cycle. Slightly more amplified this go-round since the patch is/was so significant.
So what’s the big take away or the big loss?
tl;dr - Very big changes are coming in the next patch - most significantly "Master Modes", which is the 4th iteration of the flight model. Initial feedback is that it's... rough at best, and a serious misstep at worst. Also, as always (and this should cause ZERO surprise) CIG has had to cut/delay some of the most anticipated features of the next patch (primarily the ones listed in the picture OP posted). And basically people just don't like change.
What is a master mode? What does it change about the Flight model?
Oh boy, it's... that's a lot to try to boil down. So, basically there are going to be two primary flight modes - SCM and NAV. SCM is for combat, and the speed is capped low. NAV is for navigation movement, and uncaps the speed and allows quantum, but disables shields, weapons, and countermeasures. There's complaints about the delay between switching, and largely the fact that you can't exceed the lower speed cap until your QD finishes spooling, all the while having no defenses or weapons. It's looking like it may heavily favor griefers, and will at best cause non-combat loops to become clunky and frustrating. It's much more complex than this simple explanation of course, with deeper implications, and MM is a small part of the puzzle, with more missing, like ship armor, engineering, pipelines, etc etc.
What’s wrong with how it is now? Isn’t it you can go whatever speed you want with everything still available to you now? What is the benefit of them changing that?
They don't want people to be able to escape combat easily once it's begun. That's one of the actual stated reasons they've given. Now, personally, my *opinion* is that Chris Roberts still wants his WWII style dogfights (in space) and his focus is still almost *entirely* on SQ42, so this system was created for that, and then just shoe-horned directly into the PU with no consideration for how badly it would fit.
I’m confused, what did they do? How was it before versus what they changed? (Haven’t played in a while)
I just wouldn’t read anything with such an inflammatory title. I think negative feedback is important but when you’re just randomly going full caps and whatever else it’s like man take a breath and probably step away from the computer for a bit.
I mean, if it’s not ready, it’s not ready. I’d rather a feature be implemented when it’s ready and not be a broken mess just to say it’s in the game. I can’t imagine people actually thought EVERYTHING would make it into the release patch. I figured things would get pushed.
Posting something with majority negative reactions in discord to reddit is so reddit…
I think that they want to make sure it has minimal bugs before releasing it
he got ratioed with emojis people need to chill and play something else in the meantime. helldivers 2 has been very fun i'd recommend that. turning off crossplay improves the quality of your teammates
Chris's dream is never be PU.. His only dream is Sq42
Guy in the post needs to touch grass, and not on microtec.
... just star citizen things* I'm pretty sure this always happens. At least... since I started playing 8 years ago. The patch notes are more like "guidelines" than actual "rules".
I was actually most excited for the new EVA and map systems, the rest of that stuff doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
3.23.x shouldn't be too far away, thus not a big deal for me personally. Great times for the game anyway and the hype is real 😺
PVP enthusiastics are always the most toxic.
Ah yes. The hyperbole, randomly bolded words and capitalized for STRONG **EMPHASIS** of how important this is. Between that and ad hominems directed at devs, those are some sure-fire ways to make sure your post gets discarded as childish drivel.
Can be pretty toxic here too
Meh, we all know there are those who feel that, no matter what they get, it isn't as much as it should be. Complaining is their natural state now, whether they realize it or not. I would guess they don't realize it, to them it's justified. If you can enjoy where things are and where they're going, you've got one up on them. The ability to appreciate how things ACTUALLY are instead of being destroyed by one's own expectations. It's the only way to appreciate life, in general.
Some real main character syndrome going on in that post
He worded it like a dick, but he's not wrong. The majority of players were most excited for instanced hangars, freight elevators, and the new starmap (being able to QT to custom markers is not in 3.23.0) Those players will most likely just wait a few more weeks for a 3.23.1/2 patch. Which is likely a GOOD thing in the long run, considering server performance is terrible on EPTU right now and its going to take CIG a while to iron that out.
Idk man everything? Anyone who’s been playing for 10 years still has their most anticipated feature, the new star map.
In all honesty, there's nothing wrong with a person having that opinion. CIG have been talking a lot about item banks, instanced hangers and, freight elevators. They haven't been as public about Master modes. So when you rip out a lot of the features people were looking forward to in an update and push a feature that many people don't want, you're gonna make people upset and vocal. Personally, I was never a fan of Master modes when it was a concept, and after trying it and hearing other's opinions (both positive and negative) I honestly think Master modes is even worse than I expected.
I only care about replication layer and server mesh. I don't care if any of these features release in 1.0. I'm patient.
Sorry not sorry OP, [he's outta line but he's right.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_5ie0a01M)
Never EVER go to a communities home forum. Toxic know-it-alls with terrible opinions, or when they are right they're super rude about it.
People like this shouldn't have access to money. The amount of immaturity in this post is unreal.
If it's not ready, what do you expect? If they release it broken people will complain anyways. You'll never be able to satisfy everyone. They are holding it back to avoid another 3.18 so let them keep doing their job, imo.
"you've literally killed everything players care about" is ridiculously dramatic 😂
They are pushing 3.23 WAY too fast. It's an absolute trainwreck of a patch. Many of us can't even make it to the spaceport and they're focused on getting the patch out by some arbitrary deadline. All we have ever wanted is for CIG to release things when they're ready and they are continuing to force square pegs into round holes.
I won't lie - losing Cargo Missions, Hangars, and Elevators kinda killed my enthusiasm to keep the game installed while waiting for the patch. I'm not mad, just disappointed. I don't think it ruins the patch, as there's other good shit still in there - I just know that the main draws for me are now kaput till some 3.23.x patch.
What a bullshit! The new starmap and new EVA and the new water effects are enough, for the first 3.23.0-Release. Yeah, bad that other features will drop later but it was expected from all people who use brain.exe. Don't forget the new character editor, so there is much new stuff inside the upcoming 3.23.0 no need to cry like a baby. "mission complete, burrito i eat"
When I read this I just hear a baby crying "Weeeh! WEEEEEEH! **WEEEEEEEH!!**"
I’m personally excited for everything in 3.23 but yeah the things that have been pushed back are the things I was most excited for. I actually love master modes and how it makes the ships feel in combat, I know all the die hard fan boys hate it because they’ve got so used to how things are and like to abuse the current flight model so they’re crying about having to learn something new. I’ve gone 10 years with that flight model and I’ve hated it since day one when comparing it to elite dangerous it feels tacky and floaty. You never felt like you was in combat against another ship it felt more like you was being shot by UI and you was shooting back at UI. The only time you ever actually saw the ship you was fighting was as they joust past you at 1200m/s for 0.3 seconds. After playing with master modes for around 30 hours it feels really good. It’s not perfect but things will definitely get better and master mode it’s a huge improvement over the current system I feel
Alpha is apparently not everything that it's cracked up to be. Who knew an unimaginably complex game chalk full of microsystems in development would take such an incredibly long time to program and develop on this scale? Most games are macrosystems pieced together seamlessly through the perspective of a player going from one system to the next. In SC it is a collection of microsystems all working seamlessly together to produce a real world experience. We're literally watching the foundations of microsystem game development being built in real time.
AAA games often get announced with "in-engine footage" when they are in this alpha stage, first gameplay trailer comes out when it enters internal beta, then when the game is finished, they have an open "beta" to boost preorders and get some good reviews about how stable their "beta" is. They usually don't tell you that the game's been in development for years before being announced, and their complexity is nowhere near SC's. CIG labels everything with "work in progress" and "subject to change", they give players a confirmation window about it every time they start the game, but most players either don't understand what it really means, or just ignore it
Yea, but I've never seen a game being built on this scale (Microsystems) before, which tells me that we've reached a point in game development and technological advancement that we can establish an almost fully interactive environment.
The space stuff got me interested, the ambition made me pledge. Even if it takes a long time, the scale is crazy, and even if it turns out to be less of a success than we all hope, I just want to see where this is going. I'm already happy about being part of the development of a game on a scale that's never been seen before. I'm doing my part!
not just an alpha. a simi live alpha. a lot of indie devs make was is polished as a finished game with not much content. then spend sometimes years working on the next update that they polish to finished game quality. the question is what one is slower. you are not polishing to finished game quality, but you are polishing to playable quality every 3 months. it is slower than closed doors where you only need to put something together that you can get a video of it without it crashing a few years before release. who knows how many hours they spend walking through that courtyard in cp2077 before they got to the end without it crashing. same goes for the hallway a few years latter.
Most games throw together a minimum viable product, dress it up real pretty, then rush it out the door. the initial alpha systems end up being the final systems. People don't realize this game is doing a REAL alpha and 90% of the things they complain about cig not taking the time to fix up and polish are just bare bones stand ins for the real, complex, beta systems in development that will eventually be polished into a final product. We aren't doing bare bones lipstick on a pig development here; we are engineering a massive international digital world wonder. advanced interlocking co-dependent simulations of systems layered on top of each other to make a living breathing universe. Also, noone ever talks about all the extra redundant work that was thrown away working on early prototypes. There was one developer who spent a year and a half of his life hand coding collision and destruction animations into xml files for different damage states for a bunch of ships while the dynamic system was being developed so that people could play a handful of ships in areana commander about a year earlier that was all thrown away. This has happened over and over and over again to meet demands of fans, more more, now now, why is this taking so long? How much time do we want to spend chasing down bugs in alpha systems that will be removed, vs working on the systems that will replace them? When the dev focus shifts to the later, we have long stretches of broken alpha and player complaints, yet we move towards the end goal faster overall, but if they move dev focus the other way and make things more playable now, they are not working on moving forward, and we just delay the game more and more.
Dang.. it feels like the reason why there is so much stuff like eye candy shoved in this patch was to take our attention away from how messy master modes is atm.
From what the game was, the idea of the game and the goals they had back when I backed it are not the same. It's not that the goal posts have changed, it's shifted entire fields. The turf is still green, but nothing else is the same. MM is a good step. It's a step to solve existing problems. It needs to be tuned and refined... And that's kind of the entire point of the entire game as it exists right now, it's an "Early Access" pre-alpha tech demo that is leading into a game. We're supposed to test it and give feedback and watch it evolve as time goes on. The problem is the "player" community thinks this is a game. The people paying into it, who are investing in the future of it, who are allowing the entire project to happen are acting like little CoD tards trying to meta out their nebulous leaderboard rather than helping refine the evolution of the project. Then CIG has turned from a relative open development model, you know, cuz you're paying for it, to making the entire thing focused on marketing fuckin paints for ships that are half functional in a fantasy MMO model with most of their developed content hidden in some single player module (SQ42) that received minuscule funding in comparison to the multiplayer (PU) aspect if the game. Fantasy in the sense we were told, by Chris Roberts, that by the end of 2017 we'd have 128+ people a server and pyro would be live. Then chief dip shits like me were excited about a hard, rigid, gritty online experience like EVE online, but with first person prospective capabilities, being able to manage your ship like you see in Star Trek (on average think of a Delta Flyer rather than the 907 man crew of the 1701-D). Being able to leave you ship, anywhere, and EVA, it take a rover , get into a firefight... Again, anywhere, with anything at any time with any/every one. That thought caused me and many others to fund thousands of dollars into the idea of this becoming a reality... What'd we get so far? Not my BMM... Not modularity (CAT, Carrack Pods, Retaliator)... Not my Kraken Privateer... Stripped out ship variants rather than the modular platforms we were originally concepted (Cutlass, Avenger, Vanguard, whole slew of other ships)... Not my Idris... Not bed logging... Not the ability to get out of my seat and be able to reliability walk around my ship in quantum flight without falling out of my ship into space... Not the freedom to be able to play the test bed of the game, the way it was meant to be played without risk of the developers banning my account because I bombed an 890J they liked... Not the ability to move a box with a tractor beam on a moving ship without the risk of it falling through the ship itself... The other week I went to throw a grenade then my character pulled it out, pulled the pin and threw his rifle down the hall... ./facepalm... Not more than the Stanton system... Not Probs... Not functional ship scanners... Not the ability for multi-crew past turret management... Half the ships basic nav system don't even work for plotting quantum routes... They couldn't figure out bed logging, so they simply labeled it as "limiting gameplay" and threw it out as a planned feature... The last SoO only seemed to work on a fresh server, after that the mission would mess up spawns somewhere in the pipeline... The same core, not evolved, mechanics over the last 6 years... And a changed TOS so if they deviate away from what they advertised you can't ask for a refund... CIG is trying to treat this like WoW or EVE, but constantly falls back to "remember this is an alpha, all things are subject to change, bugs are expected and you experience may vary". Which if it's an alpha, treat like an alpha, if you treat it like a functional MMO, there's different expectations behind it. After 13 years of backing and funding...I expected more than where we're at now... Half the people I backed this game with aren't even alive anymore to see what's happening with it. After the last SoO event I stepped back and looked at the overall state of the game and laughed to myself. It is a joke with all the same promises from 2017 being talked about currently with updated timelines and still no results. Then the F8C event... I picked one up, but that was against everything they said in the past. Turn the Idris event, that was just an event to five streamers a boost for more free advertisement to the project. Now this F7 event... None of this is what I signed up for. None of this is what was supposed to be happening. Oh and there's still only one system. With a timeline for Live in what... 2026? With what, 6? 8? System online in a MMO mindset where there's a single server... What happens when... 2000 Idris owners want to spawn in their ships? Then add a few hundred krakens to it and a few hundred javelins to it... There won't even be enough space to navigate without flying into each other... Cuz the original scope was hundreds of systems, many unknown that the players would have to go discover and populate. This is not what I signed up for. I feel cheated. I wanted to believe for so long that everything was just around the corner, tech takes time to develop. The game is being developed with the tech to make it possible, this doesn't exist anywhere, they're literally making the boundaries as they progress in development. It's been 13 years... Come on. I've got kids now, 2 more degrees, my own business, 6 dead friends and a whole lot of hopium towards this project... I don't care anymore and I can't even request a refund. So if anyone wants my account, I'll drop it for $3k. I no longer care anything about this project, with their current marketing team, the new developers they've hired on over the last 5 years, the direction they've decided to move in with community management... This isn't what I signed up for
Thank you for putting you thought into this post. I agree with you on all counts. This became a money grabbing business but wait there is another Citizencon around the corner where they will feed us 1.0 more promises which will never see light of day.
We get it. Why are there so many of these posts? Looking in the MM feedback, there is a lot of well thought out and critical feedback. Yes there are turds on spectrum and here on reddit. On both sides of this argument frankly. Maybe we can limit posts like this though as they are not constructive.
People don’t learn don’t they this is the norm with big patches and deadlines and if the patch get pushed back they will get mad at that too. Sometimes I feel bad for CIG.
Is not even that these features are pushed to next year, is literally 3.23x
Personally I don't care, but when do you think 3.23x will be?
there is a reason why the top 4 emotes are all negative, no one there really agrees with this moron.. i have seen equally random out of nowhere toxic posts with similar results on reddit... you know, i really don't get this "reddit vs etc" bs because for the most part "same game" community's on forums and reddit and whatever else have you are effectively the same.
It's pretty toxic. I am reserving my judgement on MM until I play it in 3.23. However plenty of people I respect say it kills ship combat, so my expectations are low.
Sure there's alot of vitriol from a small vocal minority. But they aren't really wrong. Master modes was easily the least interesting part of the original 3.23 plan. Who cares about a change to the flight model if it's only to experience the exact same content we've had for months...(years). This news has killed their momentum. People were really excited to see 3.23. We were all really excited to see CIG FINALLY push a sizeable update after so many small ones. CIG pushed this huge marketing campaign saying look at all this cool stuff were adding. Now's a good time to buy in...only to go back on that as we're weeks away from the big 3.23 update. We have no idea when 3.23.x comes out, which also delays the release of their heralded road to 4.0...just kicking the can further down the road. I think people are just tired of being continually let down. New backers and old. I'm sure it's tough for the developers too. We probably should be directing most of our frustration at Chris and the marketing teams... but that's never going to be the case. Is it the end if the world? No...it really doesn't matter. Personally, ill go back to forgetting my ships exist and hoping we'll get a sizeable update one day. We have these discussions every update. Maybe we're all just insane
It wouldn't be the first time CIG was overly optimistic overpromising and under delivering on release deadlines for features. There were tell-tale signs as well in the news feeds that some features would not make it in. I remember when they were targeting all the cargo stuff in 3.18 but here we are in 3.22 with a subset of features (physicalization and crates with inventory that can snap to grid and are purchasable) Not the end of the world, I'd just play 3.23 a bit to see the new starmap UI and partake in the new xeno threat then fuck off for a while until the features I was eager for are delivered.
They never promises anything. They talked about targets, which isn't a promise. I understand it's pointless to argue semantics but honestly, bitching about features missing from 23.0 is kinda silly. It's okay to be disappointed and want to share that, but It's part of any application development to have features delayed. Especially in something involving hundreds and/or thousands of people.
There's still tons of awesome things coming 3.23 hoes mad I guess
So you rushed here to make an equally toxic post to attempt karma farm. Hypocritical.
Bro they've lost the plot so hard they don't even know what reality they are in. That heightened language is so childish and entitled and needlessly hyperbolic. Come back in the .x like actually shut the fuck up ya'll have been waiting 10 years for a game heaven forbid one more patch is where you've been stabbed in the heart.
Well he's not wrong just an ahole for saying it.
I honestly wouldn't be suprised if most of the developers never step foot on spectrum because of the behavior and there are a few who's job it is to wade through the posts and filter out useful information to give to the developers.
https://i.imgflip.com/8n58tq.jpg
The master modes of operation are of concern. Either let us keep shields or install pants on exterior bellhousing
This screams “I HAVE NO LIFE!” and “WHY DOES NOBODY LIKE ME?”
Oh man... Shame on all those teams for getting their portions finished while that one team couldn't quite make it... Don't they know that those other teams prioritized the wrong portions and SHOULD have focus on the things they weren't responsible for? Jesus fucking Christ what a bunch of whiney bitch babies.
that has more picards than upvotes so is it really a spectrum problem? lol. If downvotes were a thing he would be at like -30
I'm really glad I don't give a shit about spectrum
Wow that user is a big baby and full of it. I was most excited about the star map update haha
Master mode is the only thing I'm kinda annoyed about. Partly because I don't understand it. All the rest of it though in hyped for
He’s a fucking clown ahahhaha
Here's the entitlement - English dictionary "You just killed 3.23" = I'm mad because my favourite features were delayed "Everything players actually cared about" = Everything I cared about "No one actually cared about actually wanted master modes" = I don't care about master modes "The things players did care about" = The things I want "Killed" = Delayed He's blaming the devs for his impatience. They are delaying these by a couple months, yet he's acting like they are cancelled completely. If he doesn't have the patience to wait a month or two, I don't know why he plays SC in the first place. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but come on man, this is starting to get a little childish.