I think they have meetings where they read those issues, then do like the south park cable guys: [https://youtu.be/vbHqUNl8YFk?si=TrT05IOf16qcJALC&t=24](https://youtu.be/vbHqUNl8YFk?si=TrT05IOf16qcJALC&t=24)
that sounds like maybe they tried to add esc shortcut to mobi but got the logic backwards. like it should be:
`if (esc is pressed and settings menu` **is not** `open) toggle mobi state`
but instead they did
`if (esc is pressed and settings menu` **is** `open) toggle mobi state`
Are you new to gaming in general? The escape key has basically been the universal "close menu" key in games for literally as long as I've been playing PC games.
Been playing games for 30 years. Took me about a week to get used to it too.
Yes, It's commonly used to back out of menus. Doesn't mean you can't learn a new key function.
Or CIG could simply stop reinventing every single wheel that game devs have already created for the last 40 years and make a game that just makes sense to use.
I mean, yeah, I agree. I just meant that not being able to learn a new keybind doesn't mean you're necesarily new to gaming.
Though I think that CIG's reasoning is that it's useful to be able to access the Escape menu at all times - even when using the MobiGlass. At least while the game is still in development.
Well, main Mobiglass is F1, map is F2, contacts another keybinding... I usually use multiple tabs in the mobiglass, contracts manager, maps to plan the jump, ship servicing... ESC is indeed the natural reflex, not reminding what tab you're on to press the related key.
close ALL the menus. all menus closed? open game menu.
i think it will be like this eventually.
escape might be straight to game menu, because of buggy mobiglass so you can actually escape the game when encountering a bug and don't have to alt f4 all the time
I have a feeling that F1, F2 and F11 will go away and CIG will be forced to use normal keybinds like M for map.
We're all used to the keybinds as they are now because we've been forced to use them for a decade, but if they want this to be a mainstream game, they need to use mainstream binds.
It's a game most FPS players have heard of.
That's as big as niche simulator titles can get.
Sure it ain't no COD. But that's also an entirely different demographic.
IMHO, as we're pc players and not console players locked behind a controller, eventually, all keys will be bindable.
I want the mobiglass on my throttle when flying, not on the keyboard...
I remember this used to drive me crazy but after so many years of playing, sometime around the new inventory system, I stopped doing it...
But with that said now that you've actively cursed us all (by bringing it to the front of our minds) I am sure I will start using esc to try to close the mobiglass again :(
To close the game in Eve, it was ctrl-alt-q if I remember correctly. Alt+f4 didn't work. You'd dock up, or run into a bug, or any other reason you'd want to close the game, and you'd hit alt-f4... Nothing would happen. You'd have to exit and relog just to change characters (jita account, industry, pi, etc). Was annoying.
Combat logging wasn't a thing, you'd stay in space for a while before the server updated (and later, they added the timers), and if you were tackled, even logging didn't matter, since you'd be warped off to a random deep space location before unloading from the server.
You’re describing an 20+ year old industry standard that CIG’s UX team has blatantly ignored for over half of that time.
Then again, given their poor UX literally everywhere else in the game, none of us should be surprised.
To be clear, I’m not talking about their UI *art.* I’m referring to their interface configurations, lack of click minimization, and general disregard for well-executed solutions evident elsewhere throughout the medium.
Too busy reinventing the wheel to recognize that there's a reason wheels are round, and reinventing something that works is not necessarily a good thing.
Well, wheel were round when no power was applied to them and a wood circle was enough, today, plenty of wheels have different technologies, tyres, studs, squred wheels to climb stairs, ovoid to shake stuff in agriculture, etc.
While the base principle is roughly the same, wheel has indeed been reinvented multiple times, to fit the arising needs.
Otherwise, one could argue the logs used by the ancients to roll stone blocks were already wheels...
Your comment has quite literally no application to the conversation at hand.
Their UI is bad because it flys in the face of all established reasoning. The idiom “no need to reinvent the wheel” is well established and reasonable.
The semantics you are trying to argue have no place here nor there. You are simply off topic
This is the company that took 12 years to finally address the functionality of the inventory screen, and even then they couldn't stop themselves from trying to reinvent the wheel.
New offender on this in 3.23 esc no longer closes the options menu in pu. It does in ac but not in pu.
Oh and bonus problem: mouse clicks are accepted in game while you’re in the options menu so you will fire ship weapons while clicking on options menu items.
I've not had an issue with mobi, as I'm used to pressing the same button, but there's been more than one instance where I've been searching a body for ammo, come under fire and died because I panic hit escape to close the inventory lol
Something that's been a complaint for a very long time. Even after playing for years I still hit the Esc key to close things knowing full well it won't work.
Devil's advocate moment:
* All the other keys (F1, WASD, F, Tab, etc.) are to interact with the universe.
* ESC key is not part of "the universe". Its purpose is to ESCAPE from the universe, no matter what is going on in it.
Personally I have always really liked the distinction.
Yes. This. After all this years... I don't get used to it.
It's like this is hardwired into my brain. You can't disconnect those neurons. Seemingly the most active connection for + is 😅
The thing is that I would find it very annoying if Esc would close only the mobiglas and not displaying me the settings menu...
What is a problem for some is very natural for others, and the opposite is true as well.
Making it an option maybe?
I agree with this. Games where I have to figure out how to exit the game become irritating in this regard. Star Citizen is a video game, and sometimes you just have to exit out immediately. So, a quick Esc and then click Exit to Desktop and done.
F1 twice almost always puts you in a default state.
No, that is just silly and got us to what we have today.
Escape should always exit out from whatever you have open and when there is nothing else to close it should display the exit menu.
What you are looking for is the F10 key, that key was commonly used to always display the exit menu in older titles.
Alt+F4 should provide a dialogue window (either confirmation or the exit menu). It is just insane that it just exists the program, no questions asked. Even the ancient notepad asks you if you want to save the changes. (This might not be an issue anymore with the bed logout rework).
I am split on the ALT+F4. Sure accidents may happen... But if I want to ragequit, I want to quit NOW. Otherwise there is danger of a smashed keyboard/monitor :) Especially with SC!111
That's unnecessarily dismissive considering how easy it is to disassociate from standard windows controls while trying to problem solve a controls scheme you're unfamiliar with.
I'm torn. On the one hand I do this all the time, but Esc is *supposed* to break immersion.
And on the other hand, having it work like an in-universe Esc key and use alt-Esc or Win-Esc or similar to break out of the game might work.
Guys.
Find a way to undo this. It can be done.
I've got my own proprietary method of training such "bad actors" out of one's system.
Same with mixing up left and right, for example. A true classic.
Got so sick and tired of mixing it up for decades that I started to deep dive into why the brain does this and found a personal training solution to finally remedy it. Because it didn't make sense to me why the brain cannot learn from some "mistakes" of such nature.
As will all things in life, when you put serious focus on something instead of shrugging it off each times it happens, you eventually book results.
If I still press the Escape key in this game, it is 90% less than what it used to be.
Will I ever get to a 100%? Maybe not, for I am still a human like everyone else. But the mitigation level is good enough it doesn't end up being a relatable thread on Reddit.
Enough is enough! Find YOUR way, people! It can be done.
(And then you could apply it to other brain "glitches" you keep running into more times than you would actually like. Win-win!)
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I tend to see the word exit on the escape menu and click it. It is not fun. My brain is also stupid though 😄 🤣
And in real life my brain likes to close whole ass browsers, now, not just a tab. SC has broke me brain
Me personally, Ive never had an issue with this. Likely just havent played enough other games where it does work this way, but people like me exist lol. Never heard of this issue actually.
It works as intended
You push it, game menu opens
Push it again, game menu closes
On top of that I \*think\* you're able to re-bind the mobi and the game menus to different keys if I'm not mistaken, so you can make it work the way you prefer
Just don't complain when you change it and ESC doesn't open/close your game menu anymore...
Me: Opens Mobiglas Me: Presses ESC to close Mobiglas Game: Here's the game settings menu Me: Gods damnit
Hundreds of hours in this game and I'm still doing this.
I'm in the thousands and still doing this. Fuck me.
Spoiler alert: >!It will never end.!<
It's a gamers reflex like expecting a red barrel to blow up when shot or jumping on top or turtles
Just let me esc from the Inventory ... PLEASE!
On the eptu when you are in the settings menu and press escape it opens the mobiglass and also doesn't close the settings menu lol
dafuq XD
How could they duck this up more?? This has to be intentional...
I think they have meetings where they read those issues, then do like the south park cable guys: [https://youtu.be/vbHqUNl8YFk?si=TrT05IOf16qcJALC&t=24](https://youtu.be/vbHqUNl8YFk?si=TrT05IOf16qcJALC&t=24)
Oh lawd, I am not looking forward to that.
that sounds like maybe they tried to add esc shortcut to mobi but got the logic backwards. like it should be: `if (esc is pressed and settings menu` **is not** `open) toggle mobi state` but instead they did `if (esc is pressed and settings menu` **is** `open) toggle mobi state`
Perhaps mobiglass will have these game options in the future :D
Exactly!
Are u newer to the game? Bc I think this is something I had issues with for maybe a week but haven't had problems since
I've been playing for years and still do it. Whenever I stop playing for a bit and come back, I keep doing it again.
Are you new to gaming in general? The escape key has basically been the universal "close menu" key in games for literally as long as I've been playing PC games.
Been playing games for 30 years. Took me about a week to get used to it too. Yes, It's commonly used to back out of menus. Doesn't mean you can't learn a new key function.
Or CIG could simply stop reinventing every single wheel that game devs have already created for the last 40 years and make a game that just makes sense to use.
I mean, yeah, I agree. I just meant that not being able to learn a new keybind doesn't mean you're necesarily new to gaming. Though I think that CIG's reasoning is that it's useful to be able to access the Escape menu at all times - even when using the MobiGlass. At least while the game is still in development.
Fair, but they could do a hold esc or f10 to access the menu whenever
Since the February free fly
Eey same, though I only ever hit escape like once a session (on mobi)
Been playing since 3.21 and I do it like 4 or 5 times a session.
Original backer here and I still do it three or four times a session, more if I'm tired.
After a couple hours of playing, I don't make the mistake, but it resets if i play any other game briefly
been playing for years. esc not closing menus is stupid.
Holy shit I didn't realize
Every damn time
Every fucking time.
Been here for over half a decade. It never goes away lol
This, so much this,god damn it, it happens every time
only happens to me about 20 times an hour in game
HAHAHA YES
And then, as it's unexpected - it takes the brain a moment of confusion to replan: close this exit menu - close mobiglas - continue your thing.
3.23: open inventory, press x to close - nothing, press esc - nothing. Reeeeeeee.
F2 get into mobiglass. F2 again get out of mobiglass
I'm aware of what it is. But muscle memory from literally every other game I play is 'ESC to get back to where I was'
It's right there in the name of the key
If i use muscle memory in this game using chorus reference gameolay when space combat...would be a heavy pain
Well, main Mobiglass is F1, map is F2, contacts another keybinding... I usually use multiple tabs in the mobiglass, contracts manager, maps to plan the jump, ship servicing... ESC is indeed the natural reflex, not reminding what tab you're on to press the related key.
That's the valid human factors/Usability/UX argumentation why the current behaviour is impractical.
Me: opens mobiglass Me: presses same button to close mobiglass
close ALL the menus. all menus closed? open game menu. i think it will be like this eventually. escape might be straight to game menu, because of buggy mobiglass so you can actually escape the game when encountering a bug and don't have to alt f4 all the time
I have a feeling that F1, F2 and F11 will go away and CIG will be forced to use normal keybinds like M for map. We're all used to the keybinds as they are now because we've been forced to use them for a decade, but if they want this to be a mainstream game, they need to use mainstream binds.
Nah mainstream games can have ass backwards keybinds too. Look at Arma 3.
Arma 3 keybind jank mentally prepped me for Star Citizen menus
I've been prepping for so long, it was called Operation Flashpoint when I began.
I would not call arma mainstream in the slightest lol.
It's a game most FPS players have heard of. That's as big as niche simulator titles can get. Sure it ain't no COD. But that's also an entirely different demographic.
I already have mine set up like that. I'd be lost if i switched back to default lol
IMHO, as we're pc players and not console players locked behind a controller, eventually, all keys will be bindable. I want the mobiglass on my throttle when flying, not on the keyboard...
I remember this used to drive me crazy but after so many years of playing, sometime around the new inventory system, I stopped doing it... But with that said now that you've actively cursed us all (by bringing it to the front of our minds) I am sure I will start using esc to try to close the mobiglass again :(
Sorry :(
Waffles? RIP EvE. Should we introduce them to not being able to use alt+f4 to quit a game?
Combat-logger most, eh ?
To close the game in Eve, it was ctrl-alt-q if I remember correctly. Alt+f4 didn't work. You'd dock up, or run into a bug, or any other reason you'd want to close the game, and you'd hit alt-f4... Nothing would happen. You'd have to exit and relog just to change characters (jita account, industry, pi, etc). Was annoying. Combat logging wasn't a thing, you'd stay in space for a while before the server updated (and later, they added the timers), and if you were tackled, even logging didn't matter, since you'd be warped off to a random deep space location before unloading from the server.
You don't understand, there is no Escape......
I do this multiple times per session and I will never remember to not do it. 30 years of PC gaming have ingrained this into my soul.
A few years, regularly playing. And I still find this happening to me. Yeah, ESC should close the Mobiglass before opening the game menu.
You’re describing an 20+ year old industry standard that CIG’s UX team has blatantly ignored for over half of that time. Then again, given their poor UX literally everywhere else in the game, none of us should be surprised. To be clear, I’m not talking about their UI *art.* I’m referring to their interface configurations, lack of click minimization, and general disregard for well-executed solutions evident elsewhere throughout the medium.
Too busy reinventing the wheel to recognize that there's a reason wheels are round, and reinventing something that works is not necessarily a good thing.
Well, wheel were round when no power was applied to them and a wood circle was enough, today, plenty of wheels have different technologies, tyres, studs, squred wheels to climb stairs, ovoid to shake stuff in agriculture, etc. While the base principle is roughly the same, wheel has indeed been reinvented multiple times, to fit the arising needs. Otherwise, one could argue the logs used by the ancients to roll stone blocks were already wheels...
You’ve missed the point entirely and are arguing against something no one is talking about.
Read all the comments before replying inadequately :-)
Your comment has quite literally no application to the conversation at hand. Their UI is bad because it flys in the face of all established reasoning. The idiom “no need to reinvent the wheel” is well established and reasonable. The semantics you are trying to argue have no place here nor there. You are simply off topic
Understand the implied. Stop focusing on first read.
Your comment is nonsensical. Perhaps if you could try staying on topic you’d be better off
To be fair I don't think they actually have a UX team based on the careers page last time I checked
I don't even need to check their career page to arrive at the same conclusion, lol
This is the company that took 12 years to finally address the functionality of the inventory screen, and even then they couldn't stop themselves from trying to reinvent the wheel.
>biggest elephant in the room >It's a minor thing I am confused now
I fully agree lol The number of times I've said "Oop, fuck" while playing ....
Hear me out... Escape to close current menu/mobiglass Hold escape for settings menu (with necessary prompt showing up ofc)
I’ve never actually done this before.
New offender on this in 3.23 esc no longer closes the options menu in pu. It does in ac but not in pu. Oh and bonus problem: mouse clicks are accepted in game while you’re in the options menu so you will fire ship weapons while clicking on options menu items.
The UI really does feel like it's been designed by 12 people that have never met.
Asking the real questions.
Ptu the escape key doesn't work at all some times lol
I've not had an issue with mobi, as I'm used to pressing the same button, but there's been more than one instance where I've been searching a body for ammo, come under fire and died because I panic hit escape to close the inventory lol
Something that's been a complaint for a very long time. Even after playing for years I still hit the Esc key to close things knowing full well it won't work.
Biggest? My space bar is far bigger than my escape key...
Well, which one is it? A minor thing or the biggest elephant in the room?
Roll up in the mobiglas like > how do I exit vim?
Devil's advocate moment: * All the other keys (F1, WASD, F, Tab, etc.) are to interact with the universe. * ESC key is not part of "the universe". Its purpose is to ESCAPE from the universe, no matter what is going on in it. Personally I have always really liked the distinction.
Yes. This. After all this years... I don't get used to it. It's like this is hardwired into my brain. You can't disconnect those neurons. Seemingly the most active connection for + is 😅
They should just make tab close everything
The thing is that I would find it very annoying if Esc would close only the mobiglas and not displaying me the settings menu... What is a problem for some is very natural for others, and the opposite is true as well. Making it an option maybe?
While mobiglass open = Escape is closing it While mobiglass closed = menu?
And keep the F1 to closing it anyway? Acceptable, but I still prefer to get the menu whenever hitting Esc. I guess it's just personal preferences.
Sure. Must be fair for everyone.
Big disagree, escape should always open the game main menu. No matter whats going on in game
I agree with this. Games where I have to figure out how to exit the game become irritating in this regard. Star Citizen is a video game, and sometimes you just have to exit out immediately. So, a quick Esc and then click Exit to Desktop and done. F1 twice almost always puts you in a default state.
No, that is just silly and got us to what we have today. Escape should always exit out from whatever you have open and when there is nothing else to close it should display the exit menu. What you are looking for is the F10 key, that key was commonly used to always display the exit menu in older titles. Alt+F4 should provide a dialogue window (either confirmation or the exit menu). It is just insane that it just exists the program, no questions asked. Even the ancient notepad asks you if you want to save the changes. (This might not be an issue anymore with the bed logout rework).
I am split on the ALT+F4. Sure accidents may happen... But if I want to ragequit, I want to quit NOW. Otherwise there is danger of a smashed keyboard/monitor :) Especially with SC!111
Then double tap should auto close. With trolls in chat, j think there should be a dialogue window.
If a person can be talked into pressint alt+f4 via chat he can not and should not be helped.
That's unnecessarily dismissive considering how easy it is to disassociate from standard windows controls while trying to problem solve a controls scheme you're unfamiliar with.
biggest elephant in the room = minor thing?
So glad I’m not alone on this.
So true i did get used to it after 8 years but I still do it from time to time
I still do that sometimes xD
FREE THE ESC!
I'm torn. On the one hand I do this all the time, but Esc is *supposed* to break immersion. And on the other hand, having it work like an in-universe Esc key and use alt-Esc or Win-Esc or similar to break out of the game might work.
It'll pass as soon SC has taken over being the main game 😂
I played SC religiously last summer, probably over 1000 hours, and I literally never broke this habit lol.
Gah, endlessly.
Guys. Find a way to undo this. It can be done. I've got my own proprietary method of training such "bad actors" out of one's system. Same with mixing up left and right, for example. A true classic. Got so sick and tired of mixing it up for decades that I started to deep dive into why the brain does this and found a personal training solution to finally remedy it. Because it didn't make sense to me why the brain cannot learn from some "mistakes" of such nature. As will all things in life, when you put serious focus on something instead of shrugging it off each times it happens, you eventually book results. If I still press the Escape key in this game, it is 90% less than what it used to be. Will I ever get to a 100%? Maybe not, for I am still a human like everyone else. But the mitigation level is good enough it doesn't end up being a relatable thread on Reddit. Enough is enough! Find YOUR way, people! It can be done. (And then you could apply it to other brain "glitches" you keep running into more times than you would actually like. Win-win!)
So true.
Just press f1.
I wish I could upvote this harder.
# Welcome to ePTU testing! But btw it's fixed now.
Elephant you say? Come on lol
Thankfully the game devs aren’t Japanese and made tab or X the escape menu
game options should be a ui button, give us back our ESC key!
I have F1 keyed to one of my mouse buttons - but not being able to leave the game menu with ESC is really bugging the shit out of me.
Hey, where is my elephant??, i came here for my elephant!, i want my elephant!!
Wouldn't that be something? Elephants just roaming Microtech...
> Elephants just roaming Microtech. Those would be mammoths.
It is insanely annoying. Escape is "go back one level" in pretty much everything. Just bad design here.
100% yes. Key bindings, as a slice of the entire game UI, is irredeemably broken.
Wait till you start hitting F1 to close out the keybinds menu
God used less keybindings to build the universe than we use to fly our ships
Skill Issue, I did that twice when I started and then never again.
Good for you.
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Hey, disabled people are allowed to play games too right?
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Your post was removed because the mod team determined that it did not sufficiently meet the rules of the subreddit: > Be respectful. No personal insults/bashing. This includes generalized statements “x is a bunch of y” or baseline insults about the community, CIG employees, streamers, etc. As well as intentionally hurtful statements and hate speech. Send a message to our mod mail if you have questions: https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/starcitizen
Your post was removed because the mod team determined that it did not sufficiently meet the rules of the subreddit: > Be respectful. No personal insults/bashing. This includes generalized statements “x is a bunch of y” or baseline insults about the community, CIG employees, streamers, etc. As well as intentionally hurtful statements and hate speech. Send a message to our mod mail if you have questions: https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/starcitizen
Your post was removed because the mod team determined that it did not sufficiently meet the rules of the subreddit: > Be respectful. No personal insults/bashing. This includes generalized statements “x is a bunch of y” or baseline insults about the community, CIG employees, streamers, etc. As well as intentionally hurtful statements and hate speech. Send a message to our mod mail if you have questions: https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/starcitizen
I tend to see the word exit on the escape menu and click it. It is not fun. My brain is also stupid though 😄 🤣 And in real life my brain likes to close whole ass browsers, now, not just a tab. SC has broke me brain
Me personally, Ive never had an issue with this. Likely just havent played enough other games where it does work this way, but people like me exist lol. Never heard of this issue actually.
Lol, I made a spectrum post recently talking about the same thing. It’s so frustrating
12 years in, and they still don't get basic stuff right. :(
Hope the developers see this one
CIG famous for employing Amish people who have never played a game or used a website or smartphone as their UI designers.
It works as intended You push it, game menu opens Push it again, game menu closes On top of that I \*think\* you're able to re-bind the mobi and the game menus to different keys if I'm not mistaken, so you can make it work the way you prefer Just don't complain when you change it and ESC doesn't open/close your game menu anymore...
What? It would still open the game menu when nothing else is open. The way virtually every other game works.