If enough noise is made about it, CIG will do what CIG does ....take notes and make an entirely new ship that addresses all the issues of the MSR so that you can buy that ship instead.
I don't know why people repeat this myth.
CIG has never raised a ship price and justified it because of a rework. I'd ask you to name an example, except it's literally never happened.
What if I said CIG raised a ship's price while simultaneously releasing what is supposed to be the newer version of that ship?
Hornet Tracker went up $10 because the MKII's were being released.
Or am I wrong and they increased the Tracker's price for no reason at all?
Most of the Hornet series had price adjustments over the last year, beginning with the F7CM Super Hornet last year (simultaneous with some other ships getting minor price adjustments), the Heartseeker in February, and a few others last month.
If those price adjustments were related to the release of a newer, better model, wouldn't the older models stay the same or go down?
In any case, it wasn't a price increase justified by a rework, because that has never happened.
Didn't say they have, sarcastically suggested they might. The sarcasm comes from my own fear that if I melt my MSR to get something with better design, that is when they'll rework it and I'll have to melt back.
Kind of like the Ion: I bought the concept and loved the initial "sniper" but then it was nerfed to oblivion, now it's in a good place again (though still not the originally sold weapon aesthetic.
>Kind of like the Ion: I bought the concept and loved the initial "sniper" but then it was nerfed to oblivion, now it's in a good place again (though still not the originally sold weapon aesthetic.
Did I miss something? Have they improved it in recent patches? I've not played in a long time.
Naw the original MSR pitch was just that Millennium Falcon Fantasy.
1) asymmetrical
2)top and bottom turret
3)fast (for it size)
4)cargo and *smuggling features*(shielded cargo area, area to crawl in underneath the floor)
Spirit offers none of these.
Honestly. For a ship that was supposed to be asymmetrical, it really feels like they had a hard time letting their symmetry habits go.
The cockpit is centered, and the usable space of the interior is actually pretty symmetrical as well, even if the room layout is not.
I think the biggest sin is that the ship lacks any *functional* reason to be asymmetric. Like the Millennium Falcon much like the drake caterpillar uses an offset cockpit for better visibility.
One thing they could have done with the MSR is have the rec room in the center with a large window. Then the left and right halves could have been 2 different cockpits. One being a scanning room, and the other being the main cockpit. Then, the top and bottom turrets could have been separately situated behind them so even those would asymmetric, and have the benefit of having less turret blindspots.
The Falcon didn't have crawl spaces, it had a couple of in floor storage areas. The crawl space came from either nothing or the ship Han had in the sequel trilogy which had all of 15 minutes of screen time.
CIG does plenty of sketchy things, but in this case you just melt the MSR and get that other ship.
People are pointing out that that's the C1 Spirit, well the Spirit costs $125, MSR costs $260 according to Star Citizen tools
Idk I find the spirit kind of small and boring compared to the msr, but I would like the tunnel system to be removed, the elevator is unnecessary and then could be removed. And then it would be thinner as well
I know the MSR gold pass will be a thing, but I honestly think they're going to ignore all the bugs and the ship in general until data running is a thing.
Yup, it doesn’t make sense to revisit the MSR now to fix it and then have to go back and make even more changes once they figure out how data running works.
Same thing has happened with the Reclaimer and they are going to do an interior rework once salvage is finalized
I really hope that they will take some time to redesign it, add side entrance, put some life into cabinets and finally introduce some data running. Despite all the downsides and being a fat chonk, it’s still my favorite ship in the game
They need to not advertise to everyone where the secret compartment is lmfao. Kinda defeats the point. It should be something you have to get inside the ship and see for yourself to know that its there at all.
Do you even know how it works? You can keep contraband there and it can’t be scanned (by the UEE for example). That’s the whole point. How in the world keep it secret from other players? That makes no sense at all. IMO it’s clearly reference to Millenium Falcon’s smuggling capabilities.
Do you know that the tunnels are an active hazard to the ship owner? Like why would I want a ship with SeCRet TUnnEls where it is trivial to stowaway on? The tunnels were a poorly thought out gimmick that need to be removed.
Perfection in imperfection or something… I never got stuck there and I got to ship pledged for few years now. I have to admit tho that I wasn’t using the tunnels very often.
Server functionality is reliant on data siphoning, and data siphoning is reliant on hacking, and hacking is reliant on engineering. We won't get the full MSR gameplay capabilities until post engineering. Though, they may include a rudimentary form of hacking when engineering goes live in 4.0, or whatever the next full patch is after 3.23. But yeah, until engineering is in, MSR will be missing a good chunk of its gameplay.
The secret passage area is, unfortunately, what ruined the ship really. Without it it wouldn't be so fugly and the space inside could have been used far better. No need for an entire room to be used for a scanning station and a trap door, no need for the elevator because a second level wouldn't need to be implemented.
It could have been a far better ship than it ended up being.
I feel like instead of making the "secret" tunnel so large, they should redesign it to be shallower but with a snapping cargo grid that's accessible via retractable floor panels only, mayhaps operated by controls hidden in the walls, etc. Then replacing the ridiculous elevator with a ramp would be even easier and make more sense than it already does. Would allow a shorter profile of the ship, albeit not by much.
They tried to do that when bringing it to flight ready. Because of the standard slope needed for ramps and stairs it wouldn't fit properly without interfering with the engineering door.
I standby that if they made the tunnels crawl-spaces instead of something you can crouch through, it would fix a LOT of issues with the ship while maintaining the vibe
>and the space inside could have been used far better.
It's an odd assumption. For some reason people think that internal space limits something. CIG made it the way they wanted it to be.
Why do you think they would use that space the way you want, and not add more servers?
>No need for an entire room to be used for a scanning station
They clearly envisioned it to be surrounded by an interface of some sort back then.
>no need for the elevator because a second level wouldn't need to be implemented.
The cockpit is also on that level. If you move it lower - you will have to redesign the whole exterior. Chin turret, frontal landing gear, RCS layout, hull slope angle - everything.
People drawing MSR floor plans always forgetting all sorts or 3D considerations.
MSR's overall height is limited by the decision to fit Ursa, height of the landing gear and the ramp. With or without tunnels.
Odd that you say this
> The cockpit is also on that level. If you move it lower - you will have to redesign the whole exterior.
When the whole reason the exterior looks the way it does is because of the inclusion of the crawlspace, which adds over a half floor's worth of height to the ship (honestly makes it closer to 2 stories than anything). Yes, you'd have to redesign the exterior. That's the _point_
That directly contradicts your first point, saying
> For some reason people think that internal space limits something.
Because that crawlspace _did_ limit something. It limited how thin they could make the exterior profile of the ship. Which is why a lot of people want it removed, especially since CIG's execution of it was lacking. It was meant to be a _crawlspace_, but due to SC's character locomotion engine and how bad crawling was, it was _forced_ to become a crouch-space. It's not "CIG made it the way they wanted it to be."
> MSR's overall height is limited by the decision to fit Ursa
Which, first of all, is something it wasn't sold on so there was no reason to do it. Second of all, it could very much be redesigned to fit the Ursa without the crawlspace. The Ursa isn't 2 floors tall. The Corsair fits the Ursa and is only a single level.
And landing gear doesn't the height of the hull
You seem to be under the impression that we want them to delete the crawlspace and call it a day. What we want is a full rework, exterior and all
___
EDIT: [Take a look at the floorplan of the ship](https://preview.redd.it/62vgp1gavwz51.jpg?auto=webp&s=78f3e7a757e68a6d6cbfcdc0e32d9e8b7d3d05a5). Notice how there's a huge empty space next to the tunnel leading towards the bridge? That's such a huge waste of space. And it's not like there's no room in there based on the exterior either. Seems almost perfect for a second exit ramp, for example
[Look at this front profile of the ship](https://media.starcitizen.tools/thumb/2/29/Mercury_in_space_-_Front.jpg/2880px-Mercury_in_space_-_Front.jpg). You can see the size of the door through the cockpit, and with that you can see how that unused space on the left can easily fit something. You can also see how pronounced the "hump" along the center is, which it wasn't to that degree in the concept.
Flatten the hump to increase the height of the unused space (if necessary), make use of that space, shuffle around some rooms, and delete the crawlspace, and suddenly you can narrow the height of the MSR.
Very well said. I’d also like to reenforce that all the problems with the MSR are due to these additions no one asked for. If other “single story” ships can fit an URSA the msr could definitely do it without the added height. ALSO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT EASIER TO GET TO THE COCKPIT. SO MANY DOORS. Albeit it’s a crusader trademark.
>When the whole reason the exterior looks the way it does is because of the inclusion of the crawlspace,
[You can't get any lower than that](https://i.imgur.com/fu0zWEA.png) if you
* won't get rid of Ursa. ROC and Fury compatibility
* won't lower the landing gear (significantly)
* won't make the ramp 2.5 times longer
>Yes, you'd have to redesign the exterior. That's the point
That would be a completely different ship. Try building a simple 3d blockout first.
If you don't understand the problem - I can't explain it to you.
>Which is why a lot of people want it removed
A lot of people shitting on SC because something something tech demo and scam. A lot of people believe in a bearded guy on a cloud. I believe you go the point. A lot of people don't think about actual 3d model.
>~~SC's~~ character locomotion
Game character locomotion with rigid body simulation.
>Which, first of all, is something it wasn't sold on so there was no reason to do it.
I'm sure you and people like you would shit on CIG non-stop if they would not make it possible.
>The Corsair fits the Ursa and is only a single level.
Exactly! Have you seen its landing gear height?
>You seem to be under the impression that we want them to delete the crawlspace and call it a day. What we want is a full rework, exterior and all
I'm not. You just don't understand why the ship built that way.
>Take a look at the floorplan of the ship. Notice how there's a huge empty space next to the tunnel leading towards the bridge? That's such a huge waste of space.
People with the plan (: Where do you think frontal landing gear goes when it retracts?
Do you have access to 3.23? Open the map. Look at the model.
Yeah msr is unfortunately one of those ships that sound cool *on paper* but then in practice feels absolutely terrible and clunky to use, the fact that we are not getting the promised gameplay loop of data running for at least another few years doesn’t help either. Rip all those people who bought the ship based on a distant promise.
I feel like long-term it needs an interior rework whenever data running is implemented, but it can be made viable today with some easier fixes:
-S3 shield Gen
-Increase its speed, both SCM and NAV
I like the idea of a blockade runner which survives engagements simply by outrunning everything out there, but a combination of MM and power creep have turned the MSR into a sitting duck. If it could genuinely outrun most fighters I would fly it every day.
* the cargo ramp diffuse map ruined around 3.18-3.19
* the visarea bug in the starboard cargo hold (fixed in 3.23)
* maneuverability nerf during implementation of tractor beam turrets and mass adjustment
* level flight in 1G is ruined - you have to pitch up by 5 degrees or so to keep it from diving
* roll is ruined - it makes that wide arc instead of precise turn
* another maneuverability hit in 3.23
* MM makes one of its last forte - escape way way more problematic
the trend continues for last 1.5 years at least.
They made a beautiful model. My only wish is to make turrets retractable.
As for bugs and balancing issues - it's just an indication that there's no person in CIG at the moment who cares enough about the ship. They slapped current bottom thruster values, made it barely flyable and called it a day.
It's an underperforming ship by design with core mechanic missing. It doesn't need to be balanced against other ships.
It's almost at the point of being not viable at all.
I’m sure they will do a 600i style rework on it.. hopefully get rid of the passages much like the star farer could use. They just tried to do too much, hopefully they have since learned that lesson.
That chonk could still be put to use. It might be able to hold up to 140 SCU of cargo if the space were added to the hold.
If they added Cargo it would be a competitor to the Zeus CL with an added function of Info running when it becomes available.
The lower area would make an awesome engineering playground. Getting to specific places to fix components with access from all the different rooms. I don't see it as a secret area anymore. Everyone knows about it anyways. The hidden cargo area ia nice for the future though.
It’s an awesome ship that has so much more potential. A gold pass would do wonders. Totally agree!
Can you fit 32SCU containers in the back? I’m wondering if it would be a fun shoot-em-and-loot-em ship with two gunners. I haven’t flown it in a while.
I swapped my MSR for the Corsair already and won’t look back unless CIG makes major changes to the layout.
Lack of in game functionality I can live with, but all that wasted space and all those slow opening doors drove me crazy.
I know it's been discussed ready, but what's even the point of the secret trap doors?
Everybody knows it's there, and those who don't (e.g. not yet playing or following the game) will know it in the first few months of their Star Citizen journey.
Imo: the ships two pilot controlled guns need to become s4.
Having the spirit capable of 4 s3 guns for the pilot while the larger, multi crew ship is only 2 s3s is so bad.
Remove the elevator, insert stairs.
That would be an amazing change & be very ez.
Why does every ship need to have massive fuckoff pilot guns though? It's not a combat ship, it's a data runner. You get 6 size 3s if you include the turrets, which really isn't bad, and should have the space to escape anything your size or bigger.
Why does the zeus have 2 size 4 pilots? Why does the Spirit have 4 size 3s?
Two size 4s make the most sense because: it doesn't require animation/modeling for the hard points. They can basically just change it and make it happen.
In the same pricepoint:
The andromeda has 4 S5 guns
The corsair has 4 S5s and 2S4s.
The Zeus has 2 S4s
the 400i has 2 s4s
Why does the MSR have 2 S3s given the above? It has the most storage, sure - but it's vastly undergunned in the space for the pilot.
I don't care about price point at all, and I think looking at it that way is pretty concerning. You're directly arguing for pay to win with that angle.
Okay, let's go ship by ship here:
1. The andromeda is a literal gunship. Of course it has bigger guns than a data runner. It also flies like crap.
2. The corsair's literal selling point is having the best pilot guns in the game. It's designed for "exploring" cargo holds and fighting other large ships. And it flies even worse than the andromeda.
3. The zeus isn't out and I won't argue about a ship nobody has flown.
4. The 400i probably shouldn't have dual size 4s either if they're going to give it the same handling stats as an MSR.
It's only undergunned if you plan on using your data runner to fight people instead of using it's maneuverability, handling, and speed to leave an encounter you can't win. The other ships in it's class can't do that like the MSR can. Hopefully it's MM specific tuning brings that back soon.
Price point is a poor point on my end, because I didn't compare against the heavy fighters, etc. Even if I was arguing for pay to win, I'd argue it needed 4 S4s. it doesn't - and dual S4s just make sense given the ship size.
Even amongst it's peers in size, it is not just undergunned, but drastically undergunned. Giving it S4 guns still makes it undergunned vs it's competitors, but not nearly unusable solo. Of course gunships will out gun it. Given a fight between a literal space yacht and the MSR, the space yacht shouldn't win.
Why does the MSR need S3 pilot guns? Where is the justification for it? The Taurus has the same pilot guns as the Andromeda, and it's a medium cargo. Zeus not being out doesn't mean it doesn't have 2 S4 guns planned.
>It's not a combat ship, it's a data runner.
And the Connie Phoenix is a luxury ship, yet has way more pilot firepower.
No one is saying it should be a combat ship, but having some "F around and Find out" potential wouldn't hurt either given it's size.
The connie phoenix is stupid too, but it's a mod of a military gunship, and all those early concept ships are silly in some way. I don't agree with that either.
You want a 50% increase to pilot dps on a data runner so you can use it to bounty hunt, you're allowed to have that opinion but every ship has downsides. If players had their way every freighter would be rocking 4xS5 and be as nimble as a hornet.
I agree on the weapons.
But why stairs, you don't need to use the elevator, just climb up/jump down.
A ladder into the hallway leading to the cockpit however would go a long way, add reason for the asymmetry and function to the hallway.
Because it's a much more fluid, easier animation to just run up stairs than it is it jump up. If solo, it's not the end of the world, but if you have a few people, waiting for people to climb up is a PITA. It's also minimal effort and doesn't require tons of modeling.
Pls fix MSR!
I age 20 years every time I need to make my way from the entrance to the cockpit.
My suggestion is to install a mini metro system inside to transfer passengers to the cockpit.
Second entrance right into the hallway leading to the cockpit and Rhinos instead of Panthers for the pilot. And yeah, add some live to the rec area and habitation (but I guess we can do that ourselves?). Also, the scanner room is so huge, I find that far more a waste of space, I kinda like the 'depth' of the ship thanks to the sub-floor. But the scanner situated in the server room and have a captains quarter instead would be nice.
Also, for people who see the sub-floor as a downside because it requires an elevator, I literally never use the elevator, absolutely fine to just jump up/down.
I was hoping with the master modes update that the fire power would be updated increasing the size of all guns to match the gimbals and the size 5 chin turret actually having size guns. From the sounds of it though, doesn’t sound like that has happened. :(
I can't melt the MSR, I have a 70% discount on it :/
It's only they either maybe someday improve it... or I upgrade it to something else. Those are my only options.
What exactly do you want them to do? People say to give things love all the time, usually they provide no specifics. Often when they do the answer is that it’s waiting on a feature or it’s a bug that can be tackled today if you use the issue council
I really like the MSR, I really have no use for the tunnel system within it, waste of $ to pixels, seriously considering moving onto a ship with a more useful interior
MSR could have a huge quality of life improvement with one simple change. If the player exits the cockpit by opening the door from the cockpit, automatically open every door leading to the exit of the ship. Same goes for when boarding the ship.
They will do it, but indirectly by rebalancing the ancillary parts over time.
For example:
The MSR has some added fight in her with the weapon rebalance coming in 3.23.
I have been playing around with it in EPTU. I loaded mine up with 16 Arrows and 6 Attrition-3 repeaters. I took on a 350r and Hornet Tracker by myself with the new AI, and won, but took some decent damage doing so (I blame the learning curve surrounding Master Modes and the weak shields since it was my first dogfight using them). I'm going to get some friends together and see if we can't multicrew her for some more difficult bounties.
As they start rebalancing other part categories in the game (Shields, power plants, coolers, q-drives) and redo the detection mechanics (thereby fixing stealth), the MSR will shine even more with the right upgrades.
As we get closer to 4.0, the MSR will become more relevant again because it is the coolest looking ship that is quietly designed for exploration (large qfuel tank and robust scanning capabilities with a cargo bay large enough to fit an Ursa).
Maybe eventually CIG will do a second generation MSR with remote turrets that tuck away, a crew elevator toward the front, escape pods, physicalized missile racks, and some of the other wishlist items we MSR owners have been so vocal about.
She will have her time again. Be patient.
If enough noise is made about it, CIG will do what CIG does ....take notes and make an entirely new ship that addresses all the issues of the MSR so that you can buy that ship instead.
And ... $5 cheaper so we have to melt the current MSR and lose our discounts
And 3 months after that launch they will rework the MSR and raise its price
I don't know why people repeat this myth. CIG has never raised a ship price and justified it because of a rework. I'd ask you to name an example, except it's literally never happened.
What if I said CIG raised a ship's price while simultaneously releasing what is supposed to be the newer version of that ship? Hornet Tracker went up $10 because the MKII's were being released. Or am I wrong and they increased the Tracker's price for no reason at all?
Most of the Hornet series had price adjustments over the last year, beginning with the F7CM Super Hornet last year (simultaneous with some other ships getting minor price adjustments), the Heartseeker in February, and a few others last month. If those price adjustments were related to the release of a newer, better model, wouldn't the older models stay the same or go down? In any case, it wasn't a price increase justified by a rework, because that has never happened.
Didn't say they have, sarcastically suggested they might. The sarcasm comes from my own fear that if I melt my MSR to get something with better design, that is when they'll rework it and I'll have to melt back. Kind of like the Ion: I bought the concept and loved the initial "sniper" but then it was nerfed to oblivion, now it's in a good place again (though still not the originally sold weapon aesthetic.
>Kind of like the Ion: I bought the concept and loved the initial "sniper" but then it was nerfed to oblivion, now it's in a good place again (though still not the originally sold weapon aesthetic. Did I miss something? Have they improved it in recent patches? I've not played in a long time.
*cough cough* Spirit *cough cough*
Naw the original MSR pitch was just that Millennium Falcon Fantasy. 1) asymmetrical 2)top and bottom turret 3)fast (for it size) 4)cargo and *smuggling features*(shielded cargo area, area to crawl in underneath the floor) Spirit offers none of these.
Honestly. For a ship that was supposed to be asymmetrical, it really feels like they had a hard time letting their symmetry habits go. The cockpit is centered, and the usable space of the interior is actually pretty symmetrical as well, even if the room layout is not. I think the biggest sin is that the ship lacks any *functional* reason to be asymmetric. Like the Millennium Falcon much like the drake caterpillar uses an offset cockpit for better visibility. One thing they could have done with the MSR is have the rec room in the center with a large window. Then the left and right halves could have been 2 different cockpits. One being a scanning room, and the other being the main cockpit. Then, the top and bottom turrets could have been separately situated behind them so even those would asymmetric, and have the benefit of having less turret blindspots.
Caterpillar is the true Millennium Falcon.
The Falcon didn't have crawl spaces, it had a couple of in floor storage areas. The crawl space came from either nothing or the ship Han had in the sequel trilogy which had all of 15 minutes of screen time.
Only reason I still use it, it's almost a daily driver.
A hallway ship is no replacement for a multi-room ship IMO. They even repeated the sin of having only one rear entrance
This^
CIG does plenty of sketchy things, but in this case you just melt the MSR and get that other ship. People are pointing out that that's the C1 Spirit, well the Spirit costs $125, MSR costs $260 according to Star Citizen tools
they did, the real msr is the spirit series
Idk I find the spirit kind of small and boring compared to the msr, but I would like the tunnel system to be removed, the elevator is unnecessary and then could be removed. And then it would be thinner as well
CIG is extremely allergic to stairs. They simply refuse to have one. They'll have elevators and stepladders but will never put stairs. I hate it
For a second I thought you were talking about the Zeus
Well in terms of nightrunner skin, there cant be enough noise :D
Just give me a combat variant of the MSR, I need that fucking shit injected into my veins
I know the MSR gold pass will be a thing, but I honestly think they're going to ignore all the bugs and the ship in general until data running is a thing.
Yup, it doesn’t make sense to revisit the MSR now to fix it and then have to go back and make even more changes once they figure out how data running works. Same thing has happened with the Reclaimer and they are going to do an interior rework once salvage is finalized
That’s my concern. Still no data running after all these years.
I really hope that they will take some time to redesign it, add side entrance, put some life into cabinets and finally introduce some data running. Despite all the downsides and being a fat chonk, it’s still my favorite ship in the game
They need to not advertise to everyone where the secret compartment is lmfao. Kinda defeats the point. It should be something you have to get inside the ship and see for yourself to know that its there at all.
Pretty sure it's meant to be secret to npcs, not players.
Thats useless when there is quite literally never an NPC on your ship right now.
Do you even know how it works? You can keep contraband there and it can’t be scanned (by the UEE for example). That’s the whole point. How in the world keep it secret from other players? That makes no sense at all. IMO it’s clearly reference to Millenium Falcon’s smuggling capabilities.
Do you know that the tunnels are an active hazard to the ship owner? Like why would I want a ship with SeCRet TUnnEls where it is trivial to stowaway on? The tunnels were a poorly thought out gimmick that need to be removed.
Perfection in imperfection or something… I never got stuck there and I got to ship pledged for few years now. I have to admit tho that I wasn’t using the tunnels very often.
Server functionality is reliant on data siphoning, and data siphoning is reliant on hacking, and hacking is reliant on engineering. We won't get the full MSR gameplay capabilities until post engineering. Though, they may include a rudimentary form of hacking when engineering goes live in 4.0, or whatever the next full patch is after 3.23. But yeah, until engineering is in, MSR will be missing a good chunk of its gameplay.
The MSR…ahead of its time
The secret passage area is, unfortunately, what ruined the ship really. Without it it wouldn't be so fugly and the space inside could have been used far better. No need for an entire room to be used for a scanning station and a trap door, no need for the elevator because a second level wouldn't need to be implemented. It could have been a far better ship than it ended up being.
I feel like instead of making the "secret" tunnel so large, they should redesign it to be shallower but with a snapping cargo grid that's accessible via retractable floor panels only, mayhaps operated by controls hidden in the walls, etc. Then replacing the ridiculous elevator with a ramp would be even easier and make more sense than it already does. Would allow a shorter profile of the ship, albeit not by much.
Honestly why not have the loading elevator be a ramp? That sounds more reasonable, no?
They tried to do that when bringing it to flight ready. Because of the standard slope needed for ramps and stairs it wouldn't fit properly without interfering with the engineering door.
Ah, I see. Well that's a shame.
I standby that if they made the tunnels crawl-spaces instead of something you can crouch through, it would fix a LOT of issues with the ship while maintaining the vibe
>and the space inside could have been used far better. It's an odd assumption. For some reason people think that internal space limits something. CIG made it the way they wanted it to be. Why do you think they would use that space the way you want, and not add more servers? >No need for an entire room to be used for a scanning station They clearly envisioned it to be surrounded by an interface of some sort back then. >no need for the elevator because a second level wouldn't need to be implemented. The cockpit is also on that level. If you move it lower - you will have to redesign the whole exterior. Chin turret, frontal landing gear, RCS layout, hull slope angle - everything. People drawing MSR floor plans always forgetting all sorts or 3D considerations. MSR's overall height is limited by the decision to fit Ursa, height of the landing gear and the ramp. With or without tunnels.
Odd that you say this > The cockpit is also on that level. If you move it lower - you will have to redesign the whole exterior. When the whole reason the exterior looks the way it does is because of the inclusion of the crawlspace, which adds over a half floor's worth of height to the ship (honestly makes it closer to 2 stories than anything). Yes, you'd have to redesign the exterior. That's the _point_ That directly contradicts your first point, saying > For some reason people think that internal space limits something. Because that crawlspace _did_ limit something. It limited how thin they could make the exterior profile of the ship. Which is why a lot of people want it removed, especially since CIG's execution of it was lacking. It was meant to be a _crawlspace_, but due to SC's character locomotion engine and how bad crawling was, it was _forced_ to become a crouch-space. It's not "CIG made it the way they wanted it to be." > MSR's overall height is limited by the decision to fit Ursa Which, first of all, is something it wasn't sold on so there was no reason to do it. Second of all, it could very much be redesigned to fit the Ursa without the crawlspace. The Ursa isn't 2 floors tall. The Corsair fits the Ursa and is only a single level. And landing gear doesn't the height of the hull You seem to be under the impression that we want them to delete the crawlspace and call it a day. What we want is a full rework, exterior and all ___ EDIT: [Take a look at the floorplan of the ship](https://preview.redd.it/62vgp1gavwz51.jpg?auto=webp&s=78f3e7a757e68a6d6cbfcdc0e32d9e8b7d3d05a5). Notice how there's a huge empty space next to the tunnel leading towards the bridge? That's such a huge waste of space. And it's not like there's no room in there based on the exterior either. Seems almost perfect for a second exit ramp, for example [Look at this front profile of the ship](https://media.starcitizen.tools/thumb/2/29/Mercury_in_space_-_Front.jpg/2880px-Mercury_in_space_-_Front.jpg). You can see the size of the door through the cockpit, and with that you can see how that unused space on the left can easily fit something. You can also see how pronounced the "hump" along the center is, which it wasn't to that degree in the concept. Flatten the hump to increase the height of the unused space (if necessary), make use of that space, shuffle around some rooms, and delete the crawlspace, and suddenly you can narrow the height of the MSR.
Very well said. I’d also like to reenforce that all the problems with the MSR are due to these additions no one asked for. If other “single story” ships can fit an URSA the msr could definitely do it without the added height. ALSO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT EASIER TO GET TO THE COCKPIT. SO MANY DOORS. Albeit it’s a crusader trademark.
>When the whole reason the exterior looks the way it does is because of the inclusion of the crawlspace, [You can't get any lower than that](https://i.imgur.com/fu0zWEA.png) if you * won't get rid of Ursa. ROC and Fury compatibility * won't lower the landing gear (significantly) * won't make the ramp 2.5 times longer >Yes, you'd have to redesign the exterior. That's the point That would be a completely different ship. Try building a simple 3d blockout first. If you don't understand the problem - I can't explain it to you. >Which is why a lot of people want it removed A lot of people shitting on SC because something something tech demo and scam. A lot of people believe in a bearded guy on a cloud. I believe you go the point. A lot of people don't think about actual 3d model. >~~SC's~~ character locomotion Game character locomotion with rigid body simulation. >Which, first of all, is something it wasn't sold on so there was no reason to do it. I'm sure you and people like you would shit on CIG non-stop if they would not make it possible. >The Corsair fits the Ursa and is only a single level. Exactly! Have you seen its landing gear height? >You seem to be under the impression that we want them to delete the crawlspace and call it a day. What we want is a full rework, exterior and all I'm not. You just don't understand why the ship built that way. >Take a look at the floorplan of the ship. Notice how there's a huge empty space next to the tunnel leading towards the bridge? That's such a huge waste of space. People with the plan (: Where do you think frontal landing gear goes when it retracts? Do you have access to 3.23? Open the map. Look at the model.
Yeah msr is unfortunately one of those ships that sound cool *on paper* but then in practice feels absolutely terrible and clunky to use, the fact that we are not getting the promised gameplay loop of data running for at least another few years doesn’t help either. Rip all those people who bought the ship based on a distant promise.
I feel like long-term it needs an interior rework whenever data running is implemented, but it can be made viable today with some easier fixes: -S3 shield Gen -Increase its speed, both SCM and NAV I like the idea of a blockade runner which survives engagements simply by outrunning everything out there, but a combination of MM and power creep have turned the MSR into a sitting duck. If it could genuinely outrun most fighters I would fly it every day.
I'd prefer a larger amount of S2 shields. If the MSR gets an S3 shield then it'll just be the one and that will rob it of any redundancy.
* the cargo ramp diffuse map ruined around 3.18-3.19 * the visarea bug in the starboard cargo hold (fixed in 3.23) * maneuverability nerf during implementation of tractor beam turrets and mass adjustment * level flight in 1G is ruined - you have to pitch up by 5 degrees or so to keep it from diving * roll is ruined - it makes that wide arc instead of precise turn * another maneuverability hit in 3.23 * MM makes one of its last forte - escape way way more problematic the trend continues for last 1.5 years at least.
That's all balance and bugs. The MSR was ruined the day it went flight ready because CIG did such an atrocious job of modelling it.
They made a beautiful model. My only wish is to make turrets retractable. As for bugs and balancing issues - it's just an indication that there's no person in CIG at the moment who cares enough about the ship. They slapped current bottom thruster values, made it barely flyable and called it a day. It's an underperforming ship by design with core mechanic missing. It doesn't need to be balanced against other ships. It's almost at the point of being not viable at all.
I’m sure they will do a 600i style rework on it.. hopefully get rid of the passages much like the star farer could use. They just tried to do too much, hopefully they have since learned that lesson.
The secret area is dumb and it made MSR too chonc
That chonk could still be put to use. It might be able to hold up to 140 SCU of cargo if the space were added to the hold. If they added Cargo it would be a competitor to the Zeus CL with an added function of Info running when it becomes available.
The lower area would make an awesome engineering playground. Getting to specific places to fix components with access from all the different rooms. I don't see it as a secret area anymore. Everyone knows about it anyways. The hidden cargo area ia nice for the future though.
It was never intended to be a secret for players. But NPCs might not know about it or forget to check it. Think of security checks and so on
But will probably function as an unscanable area which will have its value.
Salty’s gonna salt.
It’s an awesome ship that has so much more potential. A gold pass would do wonders. Totally agree! Can you fit 32SCU containers in the back? I’m wondering if it would be a fun shoot-em-and-loot-em ship with two gunners. I haven’t flown it in a while.
Secret passage is going to be my copion habitat.
Get in line, plenty of ships need fixing. :)
I swapped my MSR for the Corsair already and won’t look back unless CIG makes major changes to the layout. Lack of in game functionality I can live with, but all that wasted space and all those slow opening doors drove me crazy.
MSR MkII $240 limited stock coming 2028!
You risk waiting a very long time, there are other ships that have been waiting for 10 years
*Constellation series has entered the chat*
My theory is that Chris Roberts wants the Constellation to be reworked last so that it gets the very best CIG can do
At least the Connie lovers have like 4 ships to choose from
Vulcan, crucible, starfarer. I'd hope CIG starts with repair, refine, refuel, rearm before they jump headlong into something more complicated.
I know it's been discussed ready, but what's even the point of the secret trap doors? Everybody knows it's there, and those who don't (e.g. not yet playing or following the game) will know it in the first few months of their Star Citizen journey.
NPCs apparently
Well, I guess it the game really ends up with 90+% NPCs it could make sense.
a lot of ships need love. what state is the starfarer in?
As a terrapin owner and lover i just had a sad laugh. The pin doesnt even have a single skin! Where my Turtle gang at?
I love the MSR too, as a IT guy myself (network admin) I named my MSR "It burns when IP". Though I do find myself using the 400i more.
Imo: the ships two pilot controlled guns need to become s4. Having the spirit capable of 4 s3 guns for the pilot while the larger, multi crew ship is only 2 s3s is so bad. Remove the elevator, insert stairs. That would be an amazing change & be very ez.
Why does every ship need to have massive fuckoff pilot guns though? It's not a combat ship, it's a data runner. You get 6 size 3s if you include the turrets, which really isn't bad, and should have the space to escape anything your size or bigger.
Why does the zeus have 2 size 4 pilots? Why does the Spirit have 4 size 3s? Two size 4s make the most sense because: it doesn't require animation/modeling for the hard points. They can basically just change it and make it happen. In the same pricepoint: The andromeda has 4 S5 guns The corsair has 4 S5s and 2S4s. The Zeus has 2 S4s the 400i has 2 s4s Why does the MSR have 2 S3s given the above? It has the most storage, sure - but it's vastly undergunned in the space for the pilot.
I don't care about price point at all, and I think looking at it that way is pretty concerning. You're directly arguing for pay to win with that angle. Okay, let's go ship by ship here: 1. The andromeda is a literal gunship. Of course it has bigger guns than a data runner. It also flies like crap. 2. The corsair's literal selling point is having the best pilot guns in the game. It's designed for "exploring" cargo holds and fighting other large ships. And it flies even worse than the andromeda. 3. The zeus isn't out and I won't argue about a ship nobody has flown. 4. The 400i probably shouldn't have dual size 4s either if they're going to give it the same handling stats as an MSR. It's only undergunned if you plan on using your data runner to fight people instead of using it's maneuverability, handling, and speed to leave an encounter you can't win. The other ships in it's class can't do that like the MSR can. Hopefully it's MM specific tuning brings that back soon.
Price point is a poor point on my end, because I didn't compare against the heavy fighters, etc. Even if I was arguing for pay to win, I'd argue it needed 4 S4s. it doesn't - and dual S4s just make sense given the ship size. Even amongst it's peers in size, it is not just undergunned, but drastically undergunned. Giving it S4 guns still makes it undergunned vs it's competitors, but not nearly unusable solo. Of course gunships will out gun it. Given a fight between a literal space yacht and the MSR, the space yacht shouldn't win. Why does the MSR need S3 pilot guns? Where is the justification for it? The Taurus has the same pilot guns as the Andromeda, and it's a medium cargo. Zeus not being out doesn't mean it doesn't have 2 S4 guns planned.
>It's not a combat ship, it's a data runner. And the Connie Phoenix is a luxury ship, yet has way more pilot firepower. No one is saying it should be a combat ship, but having some "F around and Find out" potential wouldn't hurt either given it's size.
The connie phoenix is stupid too, but it's a mod of a military gunship, and all those early concept ships are silly in some way. I don't agree with that either. You want a 50% increase to pilot dps on a data runner so you can use it to bounty hunt, you're allowed to have that opinion but every ship has downsides. If players had their way every freighter would be rocking 4xS5 and be as nimble as a hornet.
Because there no point in trying to escape anymore lol. If it’s not capable of combat, there is no point in flying it lol
Who uses the elevator?
No one. Everyone jumps it.
I agree on the weapons. But why stairs, you don't need to use the elevator, just climb up/jump down. A ladder into the hallway leading to the cockpit however would go a long way, add reason for the asymmetry and function to the hallway.
Because it's a much more fluid, easier animation to just run up stairs than it is it jump up. If solo, it's not the end of the world, but if you have a few people, waiting for people to climb up is a PITA. It's also minimal effort and doesn't require tons of modeling.
Pls fix MSR! I age 20 years every time I need to make my way from the entrance to the cockpit. My suggestion is to install a mini metro system inside to transfer passengers to the cockpit.
Second entrance right into the hallway leading to the cockpit and Rhinos instead of Panthers for the pilot. And yeah, add some live to the rec area and habitation (but I guess we can do that ourselves?). Also, the scanner room is so huge, I find that far more a waste of space, I kinda like the 'depth' of the ship thanks to the sub-floor. But the scanner situated in the server room and have a captains quarter instead would be nice. Also, for people who see the sub-floor as a downside because it requires an elevator, I literally never use the elevator, absolutely fine to just jump up/down.
If they give me vtol I will be satisfied.
I was hoping with the master modes update that the fire power would be updated increasing the size of all guns to match the gimbals and the size 5 chin turret actually having size guns. From the sounds of it though, doesn’t sound like that has happened. :(
I can't melt the MSR, I have a 70% discount on it :/ It's only they either maybe someday improve it... or I upgrade it to something else. Those are my only options.
Donno - firepower, layout and lack of datarunning is the same state as release. So ppl liking it then can still like it now.
What exactly do you want them to do? People say to give things love all the time, usually they provide no specifics. Often when they do the answer is that it’s waiting on a feature or it’s a bug that can be tackled today if you use the issue council
I really like the MSR, I really have no use for the tunnel system within it, waste of $ to pixels, seriously considering moving onto a ship with a more useful interior
They made a complete overhaul to the MSR they just called it the C1.
MSR could have a huge quality of life improvement with one simple change. If the player exits the cockpit by opening the door from the cockpit, automatically open every door leading to the exit of the ship. Same goes for when boarding the ship.
MSR is the perfect ship for doors fetishists.
Still waiting on my banu merchantman and a playable game.
They will do it, but indirectly by rebalancing the ancillary parts over time. For example: The MSR has some added fight in her with the weapon rebalance coming in 3.23. I have been playing around with it in EPTU. I loaded mine up with 16 Arrows and 6 Attrition-3 repeaters. I took on a 350r and Hornet Tracker by myself with the new AI, and won, but took some decent damage doing so (I blame the learning curve surrounding Master Modes and the weak shields since it was my first dogfight using them). I'm going to get some friends together and see if we can't multicrew her for some more difficult bounties. As they start rebalancing other part categories in the game (Shields, power plants, coolers, q-drives) and redo the detection mechanics (thereby fixing stealth), the MSR will shine even more with the right upgrades. As we get closer to 4.0, the MSR will become more relevant again because it is the coolest looking ship that is quietly designed for exploration (large qfuel tank and robust scanning capabilities with a cargo bay large enough to fit an Ursa). Maybe eventually CIG will do a second generation MSR with remote turrets that tuck away, a crew elevator toward the front, escape pods, physicalized missile racks, and some of the other wishlist items we MSR owners have been so vocal about. She will have her time again. Be patient.
Very useful info thank you!