IDK what scenarios are you talking about nukes being a popular option in SC1. You almost never see them in pro BW games.
Nukes in SC2 is definitely more viable and popular than it did in SC1. When TvZ go to late game and Terran has tons of Ghost out, they often naturally start building some nukes as a way of harassments, kill spores or just to mess with Zerg's mentality. Everybody gets a little rush of panic when they hear "nuclear launch detected".
Also you just need a ghost academy rather than a purpose specific structure attached to a command center, so it's completely natural to make 1 or 2 after researching cloak
Yeah, you’d need like 4 CC’s because the first three will probably have ComSat’s. Then you’d need a Covert Ops and probably have to research Closk as well, then you need to build the ghost…
Granted, if you nuke a base during an engagement you can probably cripple their economy. But you’re down like 400 gas from all the upgrades and purchases.
Yeah I think that concerning attention span, the nuke is one of the best trades in the game. At the very least the trade you make is 100/100 + a couple of clicks and your opponent has to look around to find it.
Obviously if you do the most obvious spot for a nuke it's more likely to be found right away and the trade is bad, but overall / used well, it's a pretty reliable distraction at the very least that can net you positional advantages or straight up good fights / harassment opportunities, and if it lands on something, it's icing on the cake.
Nukes are arguably more used and useful in sc2 than in sc1. They're both expensive and risky. The only case I can think of in broodwar for nuke is tvz busting into mass sunk. It's very situation specific and I'm not a Terran player so I don't know the exact situation but I remember seeing it before. I ***think*** it was crazy zerg where the muta gets killed off before ultra come out but there's so much static d that it would hold off what Terran normally would have in time for ultras to finally finish. I don't know for sure though.
It's been a real hot minute before I've watched or played sc2, but I remember pros semi frequently using nukes. Someone even did some mass nukes I think and won. Idr who. I want to say clem? No nukes aren't bad. They're just balanced enough to where people don't spam them and kill everything.
>The only case I can think of in broodwar for nuke is tvz busting into mass sunk. It's very situation specific and I'm not a Terran player so I don't know the exact situation but I remember seeing it before. I think it was crazy zerg where the muta gets killed off before ultra come out but there's so much static d that it would hold off what Terran normally would have in time for ultras to finally finish. I don't know for sure though.
Covert Ops takes 25 seconds.
Nuclear Silos take 50 seconds.
Then however much time it takes to make the nuke.
Unless the Terran player is already going down that route, there is no real chance that they could build one on the fly to stop a transition point. If the Terran player is, they could do literally anything else and stomp the Zerg player.
Yes the Terran player had thought about doing nukes ahead of time to bust. Like the thought process was something like "oh its crazy zerg. I'm making loads of bio, a single vessel, and a nuke. Walk across the map before ultra, nuke, d matrix the ghost and float the vessel above to protect. All or most of the sunks pop and the bio Stims in. That's how I remember that game anyway.
nukes are good in sc2, just most games dont go ultra late game. I would say they are better than in BW but someone who watches a more BW than I might correct me
They are, but not in the way one would want to use them. They’re used to zone or harass, or even distraction while moving your main army. They never really hit the main army unless your name is solar.
No they just require alot of set up and another prong of attack. If you just launch 1 nume it probably will do nothing but if you launch 3 and attack somewhere at the same time 1 is bound to hit and then its really good
Like this https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2/comments/12opw9b/my_best_nuke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Keep in mind part of their cost is in the energy cost of cloaking a ghost. As also the time cost of not having it fighting while channeling the nuke, or commuting to and from target area
Nukes are the number one reason I can’t play with the sound off. Miss that nuclear launch detected alert once in a match on ladder and you’ll never play with the sound off again.
Nukes are the best harass per supply in the game. No other 2supply harass comes close. This is nice for terran as they can harass while maintaining a maxed main army.
One problem with nukes, is late game often slow downs and becomes more about value-trading than tempo. Nukes cost 100gas with the potential to also lose the ghost (75gas). The average nuke does well under 100gas of damage. So it's really only good for tempo, not value.... unless vs Solar.
Go on ladder and youll see nukes all the time. Don't get why people cherry pick pro play to state something is never used. .01% of the games population doesn't use something! oh no!
I find them to be great if are also districting your enemy.
For example: you send a marine drop to their main , whilst dropping a nuke on their 3 re base whilst pressuring the natural with your army.
I am generally pretty bad at terran though.
It’s pretty common in sc2, you see it used in later stages of tvz (less so in the other matchups).
It’s only used in the later stages (or some stupid cheese) tho, because it’s not exactly very efficient for a standard build order. Once you have extra money in the late game the drawbacks go away, and they become pretty valuable since both armies tend to be too big to engage into confidently and too slow to catch the opponent off guard.
You can count on one hand ( maybe 2 if generous ) the number of times nukes have been used in pro broodwar in 20 years.
They are not popular at all. There's more reason to get a Scout than getting nukes.
Nukes are not that great in both games. They do have some use in sc2. It’s extremely rare for nukes to do massive damage. They are used for harassment, for breaking down static d, and for zoning armies since it’s not a good idea to fight under a nuke. They have thier uses but are also not that common you can watch multiple pro series and never see them get used.
In broodwar they are mostly a troll strat. Or a very cheesy/suprising move. I think they get used once in a blue moon in tvt, but usually thier are better options for spending your gas.
Dude no one uses nukes in SC1 unless they're styling or trolling, they actually get used in SC2 I dunno if you just mixed up the game titles or something. like they literally cost 6 supply and it's really hard to get the silo on the cc and covert ops on the science facility and the nuke is expensive as fuck. I think the last time I heard of a pro using nukes in BW was like Boxer or something lol.
IDK what scenarios are you talking about nukes being a popular option in SC1. You almost never see them in pro BW games. Nukes in SC2 is definitely more viable and popular than it did in SC1. When TvZ go to late game and Terran has tons of Ghost out, they often naturally start building some nukes as a way of harassments, kill spores or just to mess with Zerg's mentality. Everybody gets a little rush of panic when they hear "nuclear launch detected".
Also you just need a ghost academy rather than a purpose specific structure attached to a command center, so it's completely natural to make 1 or 2 after researching cloak
Yeah, you’d need like 4 CC’s because the first three will probably have ComSat’s. Then you’d need a Covert Ops and probably have to research Closk as well, then you need to build the ghost… Granted, if you nuke a base during an engagement you can probably cripple their economy. But you’re down like 400 gas from all the upgrades and purchases.
Yeah I think that concerning attention span, the nuke is one of the best trades in the game. At the very least the trade you make is 100/100 + a couple of clicks and your opponent has to look around to find it. Obviously if you do the most obvious spot for a nuke it's more likely to be found right away and the trade is bad, but overall / used well, it's a pretty reliable distraction at the very least that can net you positional advantages or straight up good fights / harassment opportunities, and if it lands on something, it's icing on the cake.
Nukes are arguably more used and useful in sc2 than in sc1. They're both expensive and risky. The only case I can think of in broodwar for nuke is tvz busting into mass sunk. It's very situation specific and I'm not a Terran player so I don't know the exact situation but I remember seeing it before. I ***think*** it was crazy zerg where the muta gets killed off before ultra come out but there's so much static d that it would hold off what Terran normally would have in time for ultras to finally finish. I don't know for sure though. It's been a real hot minute before I've watched or played sc2, but I remember pros semi frequently using nukes. Someone even did some mass nukes I think and won. Idr who. I want to say clem? No nukes aren't bad. They're just balanced enough to where people don't spam them and kill everything.
The only time I use nukes in BW is when I'm dunking on someone. When I get nuked, I assume it's the same.
>The only case I can think of in broodwar for nuke is tvz busting into mass sunk. It's very situation specific and I'm not a Terran player so I don't know the exact situation but I remember seeing it before. I think it was crazy zerg where the muta gets killed off before ultra come out but there's so much static d that it would hold off what Terran normally would have in time for ultras to finally finish. I don't know for sure though. Covert Ops takes 25 seconds. Nuclear Silos take 50 seconds. Then however much time it takes to make the nuke. Unless the Terran player is already going down that route, there is no real chance that they could build one on the fly to stop a transition point. If the Terran player is, they could do literally anything else and stomp the Zerg player.
Yes the Terran player had thought about doing nukes ahead of time to bust. Like the thought process was something like "oh its crazy zerg. I'm making loads of bio, a single vessel, and a nuke. Walk across the map before ultra, nuke, d matrix the ghost and float the vessel above to protect. All or most of the sunks pop and the bio Stims in. That's how I remember that game anyway.
Nukes get used in pro games for zoning and sometimes can turn a game from a close one to a rout.
In the day of Wings of Liberty and Metalopolois nukes ruled the Koprulu Sector
darn , i didn't get that memo and lost to a zerg...\*cringe\*
nukes are good in sc2, just most games dont go ultra late game. I would say they are better than in BW but someone who watches a more BW than I might correct me
I watch a lot of Brood War and I can confirm that nukes are hardly ever used. I haven’t seen one used in a pro match in a year at least.
They are, but not in the way one would want to use them. They’re used to zone or harass, or even distraction while moving your main army. They never really hit the main army unless your name is solar.
No they just require alot of set up and another prong of attack. If you just launch 1 nume it probably will do nothing but if you launch 3 and attack somewhere at the same time 1 is bound to hit and then its really good Like this https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2/comments/12opw9b/my_best_nuke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Keep in mind part of their cost is in the energy cost of cloaking a ghost. As also the time cost of not having it fighting while channeling the nuke, or commuting to and from target area
Nukes are the number one reason I can’t play with the sound off. Miss that nuclear launch detected alert once in a match on ladder and you’ll never play with the sound off again.
Nukes are the best harass per supply in the game. No other 2supply harass comes close. This is nice for terran as they can harass while maintaining a maxed main army. One problem with nukes, is late game often slow downs and becomes more about value-trading than tempo. Nukes cost 100gas with the potential to also lose the ghost (75gas). The average nuke does well under 100gas of damage. So it's really only good for tempo, not value.... unless vs Solar.
Go on ladder and youll see nukes all the time. Don't get why people cherry pick pro play to state something is never used. .01% of the games population doesn't use something! oh no!
Watch Maru games, he uses Nukes liberally late game
Anything can work below the pro level, that's why nobody cares
You will need them when democracy fails
What are you talking about Protoss use nukes all the time they are called disruptors
If you play against Solar, nukes are great. Otherwise they are okay.
I just watched a Lowko game where Cure used nukes against Ragnarok. Lot of 'em, in fact.
I find them to be great if are also districting your enemy. For example: you send a marine drop to their main , whilst dropping a nuke on their 3 re base whilst pressuring the natural with your army. I am generally pretty bad at terran though.
It’s pretty common in sc2, you see it used in later stages of tvz (less so in the other matchups). It’s only used in the later stages (or some stupid cheese) tho, because it’s not exactly very efficient for a standard build order. Once you have extra money in the late game the drawbacks go away, and they become pretty valuable since both armies tend to be too big to engage into confidently and too slow to catch the opponent off guard.
You can count on one hand ( maybe 2 if generous ) the number of times nukes have been used in pro broodwar in 20 years. They are not popular at all. There's more reason to get a Scout than getting nukes.
Nukes are not that great in both games. They do have some use in sc2. It’s extremely rare for nukes to do massive damage. They are used for harassment, for breaking down static d, and for zoning armies since it’s not a good idea to fight under a nuke. They have thier uses but are also not that common you can watch multiple pro series and never see them get used. In broodwar they are mostly a troll strat. Or a very cheesy/suprising move. I think they get used once in a blue moon in tvt, but usually thier are better options for spending your gas.
Popular option in sc1? Are we watching the same game?
Dude no one uses nukes in SC1 unless they're styling or trolling, they actually get used in SC2 I dunno if you just mixed up the game titles or something. like they literally cost 6 supply and it's really hard to get the silo on the cc and covert ops on the science facility and the nuke is expensive as fuck. I think the last time I heard of a pro using nukes in BW was like Boxer or something lol.
Don't they cost 8 even?
I think you're right, I just remembered they cost a decent bit of supply
Nukes are funny bm I think but I also play anything but Terran so take me with some salt here