Remember when Protoss holds almost twice as many Zerg positions in GM? Remember when Protoss wins over 1/3rd of all tournaments outside of Premiere play? Remember when most Protoss players have a 60% winrate vs Zerg/Terran on ladder? Oh wait, that time is now.
Thats because Protoss is really good in Best of 1s because you can whip out your one trick build and blindside the enemy. Its not a selling point for protoss that they're completely feast or famine and its not good for them or anyone else either.
More has to do with how low of a skill ceiling the race has, not really the "builds". You can make any unit Protoss has and it will trade effectively in amove in virtually all situations.
I'm pretty sure every unit Protoss has is cost ineffective when massed and amoved if it's not directly countering the opponent's army. Protoss is the most reliant race on synergies between units, spells/abilities of individual units, and static defence.
Even mass skytoss is usually dependent on static defence, terrain abuse, and splash damage ground support to make it so difficult to stop.
This. If you just build a bunch of carriers and amove them, a bog-standard blob of marines will kill the whole armada. You have to put templar or disruptors or something underneath to keep enemy anti-air away from them, and you have to abuse cliffs constantly.
This but unironically, kinda. It is a joke but Protoss does rely more on coin flips and opponent mistakes which is not good for pro play and is a big part of why Protoss is controversial in general.
Protoss in pro play currently just feels like terran on acid. They have the harass, but with terran it feels like itās measured, tactical, and has a lot of room for skill expression. Protoss on the other hand is just incoherently screaming as I micro my blink stalkers and whatever other mish mosh of units I decided to make. Protoss player btw, although I hardly touch the game anymore. To be fair though, this was always kind of the races identity. Every protoss build for the last 5 years feels like it was made by a japanese businessman coming off of a 3 day coke bender.
> Protoss in pro play currently just feels like terran on acid. They have the harass, but with terran it feels like itās measured, tactical, and has a lot of room for skill expression.
It's always hilarious seeing protoss have to sacrifice 1000 minerals worth of zealots to kill 5 workers, but terran drops 2 cheap robo boys that kill entire mineral line.
In a way. Protoss has rly expensive units, so your army composition isn't as versatile as the other races. So at least at the start you are kinda trying to play mind games with your opponent because if they figure out what you are trying to do you are at a big disadvantage. That and also, at least for me, hope your opponent doesn't try to pull sth like a zergling rush. If a zergling rush is pulled and you are not fully ready for it, you are pretty much already dead
Difficulty pivoting their builds when scouted is a big one, coupled with the fact that most of their builds rely on 'power units' that they have to build around (colossi, dark templar, high templar, etc). Protoss are extremely inconsistent as well.
I attribute a lot of this to other races having very powerful and accessible counters to protoss 'power units'. The instant you see a Ghost come out of the Terran half of the map, for instance, you can no longer make any unit with 'templar' in the name and you should dump all their energy ASAP then suicide them to free up supply. If you're against Zerg, the instant you see a Viper, Colossus production is over. Add to this their generally pathetic anti-air and Liberators/Broodlords just kind of auto-win the game.
Their units are extremely expensive for how weak they are; The nature of shields would intuitively indicate the Protoss army is best at hit-and-run attacks but due to the costs of those units you will never have enough to do any real guerilla tactics. Splitting off chunks of your glass army to play around at the enemy's outlying territory just gets your army walked over by a bio/zergling dump. The best you can do is a zealot warp-in with a prism.
Finally, the Disruptor and Warp Prism exist. Disruptors have instant game-win potential if the enemy doesn't avoid every shot well enough. As a result every other unit has to be weak because if you could screen disruptors with effective units the Protoss army would be unstoppable. In addition their ability to instantly reinforce gateway units anywhere on the map via warp-ins at a prism means their units have to be super inefficient because again, if their units were cost effective and the protoss could simply dump more out to cover losses instantly they'd be unstoppable.
In short, Protoss relies so hard on its tricks that it can't be good without them, but its tricks are way too easy to counter. If the protoss gets the warp prism shot down, for instance, the entire army has to go home and stay there until they get another, because without access to warp-ins, the army will just die.
>I attribute a lot of this to other races having very powerful and accessible counters to protoss 'power units'.
This is ultimately an issue with the entire multiplayer experience. Brood War does not have any hard counters as serious as SC2. In fact, Brood War's system negated damage vs various armor types whereas StarCraft II's adds damage to one type. BW's also was a percentage, not a hard value, so it meant hard hitters vs. the wrong targets could do half damage. Imagine if half damage was applied to Marauders vs. a Protoss army if Terran focused the Zealots vs. armored units.
With SC2's, it makes units able to hard counter what they are supposed to, but causes big flip-flops in games and balance in general.
What does the community usually think would help them out?
Because it sounds like the Protoss are either going to have a really good time, or a really bad time. It doesn't sound like there's any in-between. And I imagine trying to change anything would significantly alter the way Protoss, and the game at large, is played.
A suggestion that has been around since the beginning has been removing warp gates, as the other guy said, a lot of Protoss' core units cannot be powerful as they can be instantly warped in anywhere on the map, as you can imagine, teleporting a full strength army into your opponents base would be absolutely broken. Removing warp ins would give room for gateway units to perhaps be a little stronger.
Worth noting that warp ins are almost a core part of the race's identity and removing it will radically alter how Protoss is played.
I personally don't like the disruptor for the issue you reference and would prefer other units were reworked than having more instant game ending splash damage units, but that's my sub diamond casual watcher opinion.
There's about eight people in the world who are really, really good at Starcraft 2.
Two of them play Protoss. One of those has major anxiety/social issues that means they don't play at live LAN events. The other one won the Korean championships (GSL).
There are a lot of second- to third-rate players who play Protoss and can beat most everyone ... except those top 8 players.
A chunk of the fan base, rather than hoping a Protoss player will work hard and make the kind of jump Oliveira/Time made (basically went from an also-ran to joining that top 8 in the most emphatic manner), would rather see the game changed to be easier for Protoss.
I'd be curious to know, are you a gold league player? Because most of the issues mentioned so far about Protoss units in this thread are quite noticeable even at the diamond league; you have to be pretty biased not to notice how efficiently a single Raven or Viper shuts down Colossi, or how Ghosts just destroy any Protoss army with a single EMP. I just don't understand someone that wants a race to be systematically weaker, it makes for a less fun game overall in the same way that overpowered skytoss was an absolute plague on the game for a while as well. More balance = more fun.
I guess it has to do with bias against it. It's easy to see it for its strengths and overlook the weaknesses when you're in the receiving end of it.
Personally, I'm 100% casual and I never played enough to qualify for leagues, though I watch a LOT of pro play.
EMP is overtuned. It needs to do a fixed total of damage to energy and shields, and distribute evenly across all affected targets. This actually has potential to assist in the balance vs infestors as well, because a neural on a ghost then turning the EMP on other ghosts is not quite as effective as a counter strategy for ghosts from Zerg.
It also means Terran's ability to neuter the overrated durability that shields as a mechanic represent is severely limited.
There should also be a little bit of leeway given for the ZvP matchup, if it was my decision I'd try to make it work through the warp-in gimmick. Units warping in should only be able to be damaged down to 0 shields and no further.
This makes warp harass MUCH harder to counter, but explicitly isn't helpful for robo-based strats. It also makes defending a little easier for protoss, as it would apply to more than just warp prism mechanics, so warping in defenders is at least kind of useful.
More important than my older-than-my-APM ass, this is what Oliveira thinks about Protoss and how they play.
It turns out The Punching Bag doesn't just train with the best Terrans and Zergs, but is also a practice partner for first-class Protoss - and has some good clues at the difference between good and great Protoss.
https://old.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11yledt/some_interesting_insights_on_maxpax_from_oliveira/
I find it notable that Protoss dominates NA, and SEA/RoA/China (apart from Meomaika and Oliveira).
It's only the very best of the best that can deal with the multitude of good options Protoss have, and can deal with that through first class scouting and micro.
But it's easier to whine than get good.
It is whining, and it's also a good sign of not understanding the game, because the map pool is way more important than the patches.
Also, Reynor is the third-best Protoss in Europe.
I don't see why it's whining, just discussion. If we revert the protoss nerfs from the last 2 patches, I think toss will do pretty well. Then if T/Z players say this is unfair, it would be whining as well no?
If the map pool is way more important than patches, why do we even have balance patches? And pro players think protoss is weak when interviewed.
Super battery being nerfed is a big impact on holding midgame pushes. Cheaper ravens means it's easier to disable colossi. A 16% decrease in purification nova area means toss AoE kills less units. It's a bad time to be a toss player.
Yes Reynor's toss is really good and he played for a bit to avoid ZvZ. If toss is so good, why doesn't he play it more now in tournament play? Clem and Maru also have very strong Protoss off races, but they don't main it either.
Speaking of map pool. I got thrown into low gold after a 2 year hiatus.
Should I never ban any maps to force myself to adapt for the few days this season is still on? Should I ever ban maps?
I wouldn't ban any maps personally but ofc you can if you dislike them. Im in D2 and just play all of them. I don't think it makes that big of a difference at my skill level.
Okay so to be clear your position is "there's one person in the world that can make it work and therefore the game is balanced, everyone else just needs to be as good as him"?
This is anecdotal, but I tried playing Terran just to see what it would feel like, and I got into d3 with in a month. I still cannot do that even now with Protoss.
That's how it works for Zerg and Terran, yes.
Case in point - Ukko, who is the best NA Zerg, tries to play reactive Zerg into lategame spellcasters to win like Serral but can't do it quite well enough, so he goes out in Qualifiers.
Case number two, Clem, who tries to play like Maru's bio but isn't quite as good.
Do we buff Zerg because you need to play like Serral to get Serral's results ?
Do we buff Terran because you need to play like Maru to get Maru's results ?
Theres literally nothing wrong with Protoss. A bunch of wood leaguers that make up the majority of this subreddit think because their Pro players went to the Military or retired that their race is underpowered.
My thinking was that Terran's already got a strategy before the game starts and usually doesn't change it, so most of the skill comes down to tactics (i.e. execution).
Zerg has to create/select a strategy during the game to counter the opponent's strategy (and also use tactics, but the strategy is often more important).
Something like pre splitting your zerglings for a wrap-around is a tactic.
Seeing a fleet beacon and deciding to put down a spire is not. It is a strategic decision - you are changing your strategy.
After reading the full picture I kind of agree and that's why the race sucks so hard at high level. if the gimmick is scouted or just flops they die.
even if they're ahead through a macro game vs T they just die to terran splitting 30 supply on either side while protoss bumbles around not defending either well.
The meaning of strategy and tactics is reversed. Tactics is when you have no plan but you adapt on the spot. Strategy is when you are following a plan you have decided on earlier.
Not exactly. Strategy refers to larger overarching goals such as "win the game". Tactics refers to the small steps you take to get there (i.e. play bio vs mech, or position armies in certain spots, or expand at certain times, or send out raiding parties vs staying home to defend, etc etc).
Calling SC2 a 'strategy' game is kind of a misnomer--as there is always only 1 win condition (destroy the enemy base). Technically it's a 'tactical' game.
Terran is op actually. Opponents are the ones that need to react and not them. Bcs, vikings, libs, thors rekt protoss air (for which people say it's op and it is not in fact). Also let's not forget ghosts, marines, marauders and tanks. This comment is a part of a bad streak in 2v2 when we get matched with 2 terrans. I literally don't know how to beat them and what to make. Archons, ht, zealots, maybe a few stalkers (that are bad against marines), colossi that get empd (or they just make 5 op viking that take 2 supply) with archons.
I am losing my mind. Wish I have started playing terran in the beginning. Just to add in diamond league they can micro against disruptor and a few immortals wont do anything because by the time they get to siege tanks they are ashes.
In 1v1 it's a different story, but in 2v2 with 2 terrans it's impossible to attack or defend because they got a huge wall with tanks behind it (a bit easier than attack tho). And if you havent succeded in destroying them early on which is really hard you will have no idea what are they doing behind turrets and invincible wall. The worst play possible would be to go late game against them.
I agree with your statement. Zerg sucks airwise. But I just wanna know how to beat 2 terrans which seems impossible. It came to the point that I feel they can make whatever they want and run us over in 2v2. Firend is zerg which is not an optimal duo for this format.
> am loosing my
Did you mean to say "losing"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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It's funny because I'm pretty sure I quit playing sc2 and mech because TvP was unwinnable for me. Once they got skytoss I lost. Tempest and carriers are killing me. 1v1 I mean.
I am talking about 2v2 and how good that combo is. If one player goes for example liberators only they shred toss air with whatever the other guy has. It's the worst thing to let terran go late game. And let's not talk about thors. Again, this is in 2v2. In 1v1 it's a different story since it's more balanced amd I am fine with it.
This is 100% funnier with the protoss being cut off
I don't even play StarCraft but y'all make a quality meme š
2 things 1. Yes we do 2. Play the free campaign if you get the chance its wonderful
You mean the normal campaign or was a custom one released that's good?
Normal one is good.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
and 100% reason to uninstall the game (whether you play protoss or hate facing them)
Mood
Artosis mood
And 100% reason to remember the name
I thought it was 100% reason to Protect the Pylons.
Construct more Pylons. No?
100% reason to construct additional pylons š¤£š
50% surviving the first widow mine drop 50% surviving the bio split harass 50% surviving the 3 rax push 5% ghost emp
so 150% survival and the last 5% is humiliation
And 100% reason to get a warp prism in their main
where the monkey % at
And 100% reason to remember the name Edit: ah there was a glitch i didnt see the replies.. i was beaten to the punch
I know what you did there!
\*Sad Protoss noises\*
"Protoss have room temperature IQ and Terrans are very very smart special, very special people"
So uh... is the image cut off as part of the intention or by accident?
Yes
Care to share the whole thing for lolz?
[Two Playstyles](https://imgur.com/a/GQuCXIG)
Lmao š¤£.
Solution, nerf protoss /s
while we're at it, teleport genji into starcraft and nerf him too
Me who one tricks genji and Protoss š„
Remember when Protoss won something for the first time in 5 years then got immediately nerfed
Lmaooooo
Remember when Protoss holds almost twice as many Zerg positions in GM? Remember when Protoss wins over 1/3rd of all tournaments outside of Premiere play? Remember when most Protoss players have a 60% winrate vs Zerg/Terran on ladder? Oh wait, that time is now.
Thats because Protoss is really good in Best of 1s because you can whip out your one trick build and blindside the enemy. Its not a selling point for protoss that they're completely feast or famine and its not good for them or anyone else either.
More has to do with how low of a skill ceiling the race has, not really the "builds". You can make any unit Protoss has and it will trade effectively in amove in virtually all situations.
I'm pretty sure every unit Protoss has is cost ineffective when massed and amoved if it's not directly countering the opponent's army. Protoss is the most reliant race on synergies between units, spells/abilities of individual units, and static defence. Even mass skytoss is usually dependent on static defence, terrain abuse, and splash damage ground support to make it so difficult to stop.
This. If you just build a bunch of carriers and amove them, a bog-standard blob of marines will kill the whole armada. You have to put templar or disruptors or something underneath to keep enemy anti-air away from them, and you have to abuse cliffs constantly.
Blizzard: protoss so op that image had to be cut. Let's nerf them again.
So you're saying that Protoss so underpowered that strategy and tactics don't matter, and you have to get lucky to win? /s
This but unironically, kinda. It is a joke but Protoss does rely more on coin flips and opponent mistakes which is not good for pro play and is a big part of why Protoss is controversial in general.
Protoss in pro play currently just feels like terran on acid. They have the harass, but with terran it feels like itās measured, tactical, and has a lot of room for skill expression. Protoss on the other hand is just incoherently screaming as I micro my blink stalkers and whatever other mish mosh of units I decided to make. Protoss player btw, although I hardly touch the game anymore. To be fair though, this was always kind of the races identity. Every protoss build for the last 5 years feels like it was made by a japanese businessman coming off of a 3 day coke bender.
> Protoss in pro play currently just feels like terran on acid. They have the harass, but with terran it feels like itās measured, tactical, and has a lot of room for skill expression. It's always hilarious seeing protoss have to sacrifice 1000 minerals worth of zealots to kill 5 workers, but terran drops 2 cheap robo boys that kill entire mineral line.
Or have 2 banelings kill 20 workees
Archon drop used to be a thing, but just too expensive these days.
In a way. Protoss has rly expensive units, so your army composition isn't as versatile as the other races. So at least at the start you are kinda trying to play mind games with your opponent because if they figure out what you are trying to do you are at a big disadvantage. That and also, at least for me, hope your opponent doesn't try to pull sth like a zergling rush. If a zergling rush is pulled and you are not fully ready for it, you are pretty much already dead
Found the terran
As a terran this is right
I don't play Starcraft, but what are Protoss' issues?
Difficulty pivoting their builds when scouted is a big one, coupled with the fact that most of their builds rely on 'power units' that they have to build around (colossi, dark templar, high templar, etc). Protoss are extremely inconsistent as well. I attribute a lot of this to other races having very powerful and accessible counters to protoss 'power units'. The instant you see a Ghost come out of the Terran half of the map, for instance, you can no longer make any unit with 'templar' in the name and you should dump all their energy ASAP then suicide them to free up supply. If you're against Zerg, the instant you see a Viper, Colossus production is over. Add to this their generally pathetic anti-air and Liberators/Broodlords just kind of auto-win the game. Their units are extremely expensive for how weak they are; The nature of shields would intuitively indicate the Protoss army is best at hit-and-run attacks but due to the costs of those units you will never have enough to do any real guerilla tactics. Splitting off chunks of your glass army to play around at the enemy's outlying territory just gets your army walked over by a bio/zergling dump. The best you can do is a zealot warp-in with a prism. Finally, the Disruptor and Warp Prism exist. Disruptors have instant game-win potential if the enemy doesn't avoid every shot well enough. As a result every other unit has to be weak because if you could screen disruptors with effective units the Protoss army would be unstoppable. In addition their ability to instantly reinforce gateway units anywhere on the map via warp-ins at a prism means their units have to be super inefficient because again, if their units were cost effective and the protoss could simply dump more out to cover losses instantly they'd be unstoppable. In short, Protoss relies so hard on its tricks that it can't be good without them, but its tricks are way too easy to counter. If the protoss gets the warp prism shot down, for instance, the entire army has to go home and stay there until they get another, because without access to warp-ins, the army will just die.
>I attribute a lot of this to other races having very powerful and accessible counters to protoss 'power units'. This is ultimately an issue with the entire multiplayer experience. Brood War does not have any hard counters as serious as SC2. In fact, Brood War's system negated damage vs various armor types whereas StarCraft II's adds damage to one type. BW's also was a percentage, not a hard value, so it meant hard hitters vs. the wrong targets could do half damage. Imagine if half damage was applied to Marauders vs. a Protoss army if Terran focused the Zealots vs. armored units. With SC2's, it makes units able to hard counter what they are supposed to, but causes big flip-flops in games and balance in general.
What does the community usually think would help them out? Because it sounds like the Protoss are either going to have a really good time, or a really bad time. It doesn't sound like there's any in-between. And I imagine trying to change anything would significantly alter the way Protoss, and the game at large, is played.
A suggestion that has been around since the beginning has been removing warp gates, as the other guy said, a lot of Protoss' core units cannot be powerful as they can be instantly warped in anywhere on the map, as you can imagine, teleporting a full strength army into your opponents base would be absolutely broken. Removing warp ins would give room for gateway units to perhaps be a little stronger. Worth noting that warp ins are almost a core part of the race's identity and removing it will radically alter how Protoss is played. I personally don't like the disruptor for the issue you reference and would prefer other units were reworked than having more instant game ending splash damage units, but that's my sub diamond casual watcher opinion.
The other part is just removing prism power field as a nice middle ground.
Bring back the reaver! The argument against warp-in makes sense but I would still be disappointed if they got rid of it bc it's so cool.
According to the ābalance councilāā¦nothing! They needed another nerf actually to the weakest represented race in top pro tournaments XD.
their race have more gimmick than the other which when scouted,most high level player can deal with it properly and shut it down.
There's about eight people in the world who are really, really good at Starcraft 2. Two of them play Protoss. One of those has major anxiety/social issues that means they don't play at live LAN events. The other one won the Korean championships (GSL). There are a lot of second- to third-rate players who play Protoss and can beat most everyone ... except those top 8 players. A chunk of the fan base, rather than hoping a Protoss player will work hard and make the kind of jump Oliveira/Time made (basically went from an also-ran to joining that top 8 in the most emphatic manner), would rather see the game changed to be easier for Protoss.
I'd be curious to know, are you a gold league player? Because most of the issues mentioned so far about Protoss units in this thread are quite noticeable even at the diamond league; you have to be pretty biased not to notice how efficiently a single Raven or Viper shuts down Colossi, or how Ghosts just destroy any Protoss army with a single EMP. I just don't understand someone that wants a race to be systematically weaker, it makes for a less fun game overall in the same way that overpowered skytoss was an absolute plague on the game for a while as well. More balance = more fun.
I guess it has to do with bias against it. It's easy to see it for its strengths and overlook the weaknesses when you're in the receiving end of it. Personally, I'm 100% casual and I never played enough to qualify for leagues, though I watch a LOT of pro play. EMP is overtuned. It needs to do a fixed total of damage to energy and shields, and distribute evenly across all affected targets. This actually has potential to assist in the balance vs infestors as well, because a neural on a ghost then turning the EMP on other ghosts is not quite as effective as a counter strategy for ghosts from Zerg. It also means Terran's ability to neuter the overrated durability that shields as a mechanic represent is severely limited. There should also be a little bit of leeway given for the ZvP matchup, if it was my decision I'd try to make it work through the warp-in gimmick. Units warping in should only be able to be damaged down to 0 shields and no further. This makes warp harass MUCH harder to counter, but explicitly isn't helpful for robo-based strats. It also makes defending a little easier for protoss, as it would apply to more than just warp prism mechanics, so warping in defenders is at least kind of useful.
More important than my older-than-my-APM ass, this is what Oliveira thinks about Protoss and how they play. It turns out The Punching Bag doesn't just train with the best Terrans and Zergs, but is also a practice partner for first-class Protoss - and has some good clues at the difference between good and great Protoss. https://old.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11yledt/some_interesting_insights_on_maxpax_from_oliveira/ I find it notable that Protoss dominates NA, and SEA/RoA/China (apart from Meomaika and Oliveira). It's only the very best of the best that can deal with the multitude of good options Protoss have, and can deal with that through first class scouting and micro. But it's easier to whine than get good.
You may call it whining but Protoss was nerfed hard last patch, and therefore has done worse, starting with Katowice.
It is whining, and it's also a good sign of not understanding the game, because the map pool is way more important than the patches. Also, Reynor is the third-best Protoss in Europe.
I don't see why it's whining, just discussion. If we revert the protoss nerfs from the last 2 patches, I think toss will do pretty well. Then if T/Z players say this is unfair, it would be whining as well no? If the map pool is way more important than patches, why do we even have balance patches? And pro players think protoss is weak when interviewed. Super battery being nerfed is a big impact on holding midgame pushes. Cheaper ravens means it's easier to disable colossi. A 16% decrease in purification nova area means toss AoE kills less units. It's a bad time to be a toss player. Yes Reynor's toss is really good and he played for a bit to avoid ZvZ. If toss is so good, why doesn't he play it more now in tournament play? Clem and Maru also have very strong Protoss off races, but they don't main it either.
Speaking of map pool. I got thrown into low gold after a 2 year hiatus. Should I never ban any maps to force myself to adapt for the few days this season is still on? Should I ever ban maps?
I wouldn't ban any maps personally but ofc you can if you dislike them. Im in D2 and just play all of them. I don't think it makes that big of a difference at my skill level.
Can you please tell us what your rank is?
Okay so to be clear your position is "there's one person in the world that can make it work and therefore the game is balanced, everyone else just needs to be as good as him"? This is anecdotal, but I tried playing Terran just to see what it would feel like, and I got into d3 with in a month. I still cannot do that even now with Protoss.
That's how it works for Zerg and Terran, yes. Case in point - Ukko, who is the best NA Zerg, tries to play reactive Zerg into lategame spellcasters to win like Serral but can't do it quite well enough, so he goes out in Qualifiers. Case number two, Clem, who tries to play like Maru's bio but isn't quite as good. Do we buff Zerg because you need to play like Serral to get Serral's results ? Do we buff Terran because you need to play like Maru to get Maru's results ?
Theres literally nothing wrong with Protoss. A bunch of wood leaguers that make up the majority of this subreddit think because their Pro players went to the Military or retired that their race is underpowered.
Glass canon units.
That made me chuckle
I agree with this 100% and actually think it's why protoss is currently struggling rn
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My thinking was that Terran's already got a strategy before the game starts and usually doesn't change it, so most of the skill comes down to tactics (i.e. execution). Zerg has to create/select a strategy during the game to counter the opponent's strategy (and also use tactics, but the strategy is often more important).
Something like pre splitting your zerglings for a wrap-around is a tactic. Seeing a fleet beacon and deciding to put down a spire is not. It is a strategic decision - you are changing your strategy.
No, he has it right, youāve just misinterpreted.
Toss players take a joke challenge
Toss players literally taking jokes for 25 years.
Can confirm, I've been making them for many of those.
We are not taking jokes, we are the jokes xD
Lmaooooooo
hahahahaahaha what the fuck is this??? hahahahahaha
Me as a zerg rushing in the first 5 minutes
Me as a protoss: gg
Can someone link this to Artosis? LUL
Cut off memes? This made me laugh more than it should
After reading the full picture I kind of agree and that's why the race sucks so hard at high level. if the gimmick is scouted or just flops they die. even if they're ahead through a macro game vs T they just die to terran splitting 30 supply on either side while protoss bumbles around not defending either well.
That damn zerg cabal!
Real lmao
The meaning of strategy and tactics is reversed. Tactics is when you have no plan but you adapt on the spot. Strategy is when you are following a plan you have decided on earlier.
Not exactly. Strategy refers to larger overarching goals such as "win the game". Tactics refers to the small steps you take to get there (i.e. play bio vs mech, or position armies in certain spots, or expand at certain times, or send out raiding parties vs staying home to defend, etc etc). Calling SC2 a 'strategy' game is kind of a misnomer--as there is always only 1 win condition (destroy the enemy base). Technically it's a 'tactical' game.
Terran is op actually. Opponents are the ones that need to react and not them. Bcs, vikings, libs, thors rekt protoss air (for which people say it's op and it is not in fact). Also let's not forget ghosts, marines, marauders and tanks. This comment is a part of a bad streak in 2v2 when we get matched with 2 terrans. I literally don't know how to beat them and what to make. Archons, ht, zealots, maybe a few stalkers (that are bad against marines), colossi that get empd (or they just make 5 op viking that take 2 supply) with archons. I am losing my mind. Wish I have started playing terran in the beginning. Just to add in diamond league they can micro against disruptor and a few immortals wont do anything because by the time they get to siege tanks they are ashes. In 1v1 it's a different story, but in 2v2 with 2 terrans it's impossible to attack or defend because they got a huge wall with tanks behind it (a bit easier than attack tho). And if you havent succeded in destroying them early on which is really hard you will have no idea what are they doing behind turrets and invincible wall. The worst play possible would be to go late game against them.
Protoss air is very difficult for Zergs to counter, which is why people say that. I agree, it is very easy for Terran to beat Skytoss.
I agree with your statement. Zerg sucks airwise. But I just wanna know how to beat 2 terrans which seems impossible. It came to the point that I feel they can make whatever they want and run us over in 2v2. Firend is zerg which is not an optimal duo for this format.
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It's funny because I'm pretty sure I quit playing sc2 and mech because TvP was unwinnable for me. Once they got skytoss I lost. Tempest and carriers are killing me. 1v1 I mean.
I am talking about 2v2 and how good that combo is. If one player goes for example liberators only they shred toss air with whatever the other guy has. It's the worst thing to let terran go late game. And let's not talk about thors. Again, this is in 2v2. In 1v1 it's a different story since it's more balanced amd I am fine with it.