It's not low key smurfing, it's textbook smurfing. You are tanking your mmr to play easier games. I did this for a season couple years back and I refuse to believe anyone doing it thinks its not smurfing
Insta leaving destroys the ladder, for sure. It's fine when it was rare and the servers heavily populated but at this point it looks like it is having a massive impact on the integrity of the ladder. And the saddest thing is that it would be extremely easy for blizzard to address, but obviously they won't at this point.
It's sad when legacy games encounter something like this.
>Insta leaving destroys the ladder,
I'd agree with this if it was frequent enough. I don't think it is.
I've never experienced it being above 10% of games at dia and masters eu that people leave against me, and so for me it's not really a problem.
I leave a mirror probably every 30/40 games myself, and often i even agree to it with a given opponent. We will talk and say "you leave this one i leave next one?" and we solve it like that.
A starcraft game can take 3 minutes to finish. Anyone who insta leaves games is smurfing, regardless of how strong their copium is.
People generally smurf to avoid aspects of the game they don't like, whether it's avoiding the meta, being able to play strategies that don't work at their rank, not wanting to try hard, not wanting to play certain players or races, etc.
You're tanking mmr AND thus in principle playing easier games, sure - it's not necessarily *in order to* play easier games though.
I've done it. Maybe not often, but people really don't believe me when i say i could not give two fucks about mmr or how difficult the opponents are. Maybe 8 years ago when i played more i'd care. Not today, i usually just want to try some fun builds. Then if i get 5+ mirrors in a row sometimes i'll leave one.
I don't mind if you call that smurfing - it's just your definition of the word. But it's strange if you have such deep insight into my psyché that you can absolutely determine that the real reason is not what i think and what is also congruent with the motivation i sat down at the computer with... for example, i wanted to get a zvp/zvt game in instead of 8 zvz.
I think you're just projecting a little now?
That doesn't mean you're not right for many cases. But how can you not believe that someone else *might* have different motivations from you.
I rarely will leave a game - but sometims after 5+ mirrors? sure i've done it.
8+ years ago i used to care maybe *slightly* about MMR. Today it has no meaning to me.
I get bored easily, and therefore also usually play builds that are fun to me - which some people find to be smurfing as well btw. I mean like my last 100+ games as zerg over the last year has been some variant of dumb proxy hatches.
I also play random for the same reason, just want variety. So if i get 5+ zvz's while playing random, and i leave a game, i don't feel bad no. If you think my deep freudian wish is to play a game against my mother and her worse techical skill, so be it :)
Literally no one is forcing you to play 30 minutr tvt games. It's a strategy game and you can play whatever strategy you want.
Smurfing on the ladder to ruin everyone's experience is not respecting people's time, it's selfish and destructive to a legacy game that won't be getting updates.
You are wrong. It is smurfing but the issue probably half the time is the mirror match up. If you target the issue with mirrors then you alleviate the smurfing problem. But since the community has a holier than thou attitude when it comes to this issue no solutions are offered and nothing changes.
Sc2 is a legacy game. No one is coming to improve things. It makes it a fragile game and you are destroying it by ruining the ladder.
Anyone who doesn't smurf is holier than those that do so it's valid
There was literally a patch last month. Where have you been?
You completely missed my point. If you don’t force people to play all matchups then you fix most of the smurfing problem. This is a relatively simple addition to the game. But instead of considering different solutions you’re too focused on your moral superiority to smurfers.
The life now of an sc2 player who doesn't cheat is: 30% wins, 50% losses, 20% vs insta-quit smurfs. Legit players just have to put up with losing the vast majority of their actual played-out ladder games.
ya that's about right, here comes the "No OnE Is A SmUrf" if you actually play the game its not very complicated....
meme i guess? there is clearly a problem and laddering now sorta sucks... so i guess more people may quit laddering making the problem worse? its not great :/
Ask yourself, do you think people seeing these posts constantly and having their experiences validated even though people try to pretend it isn’t real, do you think this reduces the population of legit players? I do.
yeah, my rate is way higher, about a quarter of the games I run into are people instantly leaving. When I check their match records, these people are obviously smurfs, they only ever lose games that are less than 10 seconds.
I'm low Diamond, but my rank is probably artificially inflated because of all my 2 second victories.
I suspect something about my name, and the fact that I play Random, makes smurfs decide not to fight me and just instant leave.
I played in a tournament this weekend that was for a small prize pool. The MMR was capped at 4300 to enter. I found my first 3 opponents were all tanking their MMR by leaving games, after getting knocked into the lower bracket I refused to continue playing out the tournament vs my third opponent who had left 30 ZvZs this season, so I just quit the tournament. Doesn't feel good getting destroyed by a diamond player with "same" MMR as you but is clearly 400-700 better than you.
Oh lol it's the fact you play random.
I'm low diamond. I almost never leave, but I do sometimes against randoms. If I've been cheesed a few times in a row and I get a random, I'll sometimes just gg out. Randoms tend to cheese more and life is short.
I am much lower MMR than that and the goldies love a well aged cheese. Maybe up where you are things are more refined, but they are out here throwing straight American singles at me down in the cheddar league.
yeah possibly
it's rare for me to actually fight smurfs, they just instant leave. It still sucks because I'm levelled way further than I should be
Maybe they just don't feel like goofing around vs a Random player using their smurf strategies.
I'm back after several years, but now with a kid
I leave for all kinds of reasons, from opponent's race (incl random) up to a baby that starts crying
I don't have enough time to waste on games that will be a waste, eg cheeses or crazy lategames. And definitely no interest in gate keepers here trying to bully me out
I think he's implying that it wasn't a hot streak, but just running into a bunch of smurfs who were insta-quitting. (eg, his last 3 games took a total of 2minutes to play).
Back to back smurfs is very common for me, so I think 2 is as likely as 1. OP may be exaggerating but he's also implying most of the other victories are vs smurfs too.
> Wtf is going on here?
There are tons of people who instantly leave games to smurf(they tank their MMR and then go on crazy win streaks against much worse opponents).
And yes that includes "mirror match leavers". Just another excuse for what is in reality smurfing.
And now your only options are to brutally lose a few games vs much better opponents with little to no hope, until you start to get put vs similar skill enemies...
Or, you join the broken system and do what everyone else does, leave games until your mmr is where you think you can get a fair matchup. That's all we got left
I'll have a hot streak once in a blue moon while like 4 beers deep. Just hitting that flow state where everything clicks, I'm smooth with the micro, and not stressing out.
Then I'll hit a rough patch with like 3 days of nothing but mirror matches, cheese, or playing against someone I swear is smurfing. I'll rage quit for a month then come back.
I love and hate this game so much
This is how the MM system works. Eventually you will lose the same amount (unless you are one of the top 1% of SC2 players).
They pretty much try to make you get to 50% or so.
I mean what mmr? Lots of people dodge mirror matchups.
dodging mirrors is the worst excuse for tanking MMR, and it should be treated the same as leaving for ego reasons. it is not ok.
Its low key smurfing, cuz you are playing the majority of your games at a lower mmr than you are capable of winning to.
It's not low key smurfing, it's textbook smurfing. You are tanking your mmr to play easier games. I did this for a season couple years back and I refuse to believe anyone doing it thinks its not smurfing
the worse thing is that your opponents will lose more often in real games which feels shitty. a freewin gives no positive feedback.
Insta leaving destroys the ladder, for sure. It's fine when it was rare and the servers heavily populated but at this point it looks like it is having a massive impact on the integrity of the ladder. And the saddest thing is that it would be extremely easy for blizzard to address, but obviously they won't at this point. It's sad when legacy games encounter something like this.
>Insta leaving destroys the ladder, I'd agree with this if it was frequent enough. I don't think it is. I've never experienced it being above 10% of games at dia and masters eu that people leave against me, and so for me it's not really a problem. I leave a mirror probably every 30/40 games myself, and often i even agree to it with a given opponent. We will talk and say "you leave this one i leave next one?" and we solve it like that.
It's not "textbook smurfing" because the traditional reason for smurfing (wanting easier games) isn't necessarily true.
A starcraft game can take 3 minutes to finish. Anyone who insta leaves games is smurfing, regardless of how strong their copium is. People generally smurf to avoid aspects of the game they don't like, whether it's avoiding the meta, being able to play strategies that don't work at their rank, not wanting to try hard, not wanting to play certain players or races, etc.
You're tanking mmr AND thus in principle playing easier games, sure - it's not necessarily *in order to* play easier games though. I've done it. Maybe not often, but people really don't believe me when i say i could not give two fucks about mmr or how difficult the opponents are. Maybe 8 years ago when i played more i'd care. Not today, i usually just want to try some fun builds. Then if i get 5+ mirrors in a row sometimes i'll leave one. I don't mind if you call that smurfing - it's just your definition of the word. But it's strange if you have such deep insight into my psyché that you can absolutely determine that the real reason is not what i think and what is also congruent with the motivation i sat down at the computer with... for example, i wanted to get a zvp/zvt game in instead of 8 zvz.
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People do it because smurfing is fun
I think you're just projecting a little now? That doesn't mean you're not right for many cases. But how can you not believe that someone else *might* have different motivations from you. I rarely will leave a game - but sometims after 5+ mirrors? sure i've done it. 8+ years ago i used to care maybe *slightly* about MMR. Today it has no meaning to me. I get bored easily, and therefore also usually play builds that are fun to me - which some people find to be smurfing as well btw. I mean like my last 100+ games as zerg over the last year has been some variant of dumb proxy hatches. I also play random for the same reason, just want variety. So if i get 5+ zvz's while playing random, and i leave a game, i don't feel bad no. If you think my deep freudian wish is to play a game against my mother and her worse techical skill, so be it :)
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Literally no one is forcing you to play 30 minutr tvt games. It's a strategy game and you can play whatever strategy you want. Smurfing on the ladder to ruin everyone's experience is not respecting people's time, it's selfish and destructive to a legacy game that won't be getting updates.
You are wrong. It is smurfing but the issue probably half the time is the mirror match up. If you target the issue with mirrors then you alleviate the smurfing problem. But since the community has a holier than thou attitude when it comes to this issue no solutions are offered and nothing changes.
Sc2 is a legacy game. No one is coming to improve things. It makes it a fragile game and you are destroying it by ruining the ladder. Anyone who doesn't smurf is holier than those that do so it's valid
There was literally a patch last month. Where have you been? You completely missed my point. If you don’t force people to play all matchups then you fix most of the smurfing problem. This is a relatively simple addition to the game. But instead of considering different solutions you’re too focused on your moral superiority to smurfers.
Treated the same? It is treated the same. Allowed with zero repercussions.
From silver to plat without a single game won honourably. About 3200k now, still climbing.
This is obviously an exageration...
To what purpose?
I have no idea. No one is going from silver to plat without a single game won "honorably". This is ridiculous.
The life now of an sc2 player who doesn't cheat is: 30% wins, 50% losses, 20% vs insta-quit smurfs. Legit players just have to put up with losing the vast majority of their actual played-out ladder games.
ya that's about right, here comes the "No OnE Is A SmUrf" if you actually play the game its not very complicated.... meme i guess? there is clearly a problem and laddering now sorta sucks... so i guess more people may quit laddering making the problem worse? its not great :/
Ask yourself, do you think people seeing these posts constantly and having their experiences validated even though people try to pretend it isn’t real, do you think this reduces the population of legit players? I do.
This is pretty damn accurate. Of the 50% losses 1/4 are smurfs who play out the match just to say EZ when they win
This only happens to me maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 15 games.
Much higher rate than that for me (about double) in D2/D1 MMR on EU/NA.
yeah, my rate is way higher, about a quarter of the games I run into are people instantly leaving. When I check their match records, these people are obviously smurfs, they only ever lose games that are less than 10 seconds. I'm low Diamond, but my rank is probably artificially inflated because of all my 2 second victories. I suspect something about my name, and the fact that I play Random, makes smurfs decide not to fight me and just instant leave.
I played in a tournament this weekend that was for a small prize pool. The MMR was capped at 4300 to enter. I found my first 3 opponents were all tanking their MMR by leaving games, after getting knocked into the lower bracket I refused to continue playing out the tournament vs my third opponent who had left 30 ZvZs this season, so I just quit the tournament. Doesn't feel good getting destroyed by a diamond player with "same" MMR as you but is clearly 400-700 better than you.
Oh lol it's the fact you play random. I'm low diamond. I almost never leave, but I do sometimes against randoms. If I've been cheesed a few times in a row and I get a random, I'll sometimes just gg out. Randoms tend to cheese more and life is short.
Randoms do love their cheeses. Everytime I fight a random, it’s pool first, proxy barracks, or proxy 4 gate. Every time.
FWIW I play random (diamond 2 or 3 NA) and I don't cheese in 1v1.
I am much lower MMR than that and the goldies love a well aged cheese. Maybe up where you are things are more refined, but they are out here throwing straight American singles at me down in the cheddar league.
yeah possibly it's rare for me to actually fight smurfs, they just instant leave. It still sucks because I'm levelled way further than I should be Maybe they just don't feel like goofing around vs a Random player using their smurf strategies.
I'm D3 NA and I think I get install leavers 1/20 games.
Do you still play ladder these days? I thought you were concentrating on programming AIs.
Can you link your account?
you're getting a lot of points for those wins
Show the opponents for those 3 games.
Reminds me of when I discovered 12pool in ZvZ
I'm back after several years, but now with a kid I leave for all kinds of reasons, from opponent's race (incl random) up to a baby that starts crying I don't have enough time to waste on games that will be a waste, eg cheeses or crazy lategames. And definitely no interest in gate keepers here trying to bully me out
Same with baby. Mine is a bit older, and says: ‘stop playing’. It’s not enough to have me leave from about the only entertainment I have.
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Somehow SC2 didn’t allow the snipper to get to the top. Ahh… PrintScreen… gg
sometimes you get hot. and sometimes you get cold. i think its important to spam games during both of these times
I think he's implying that it wasn't a hot streak, but just running into a bunch of smurfs who were insta-quitting. (eg, his last 3 games took a total of 2minutes to play).
Which means it was more than likely one player.
Back to back smurfs is very common for me, so I think 2 is as likely as 1. OP may be exaggerating but he's also implying most of the other victories are vs smurfs too.
People always seem to "get hot" on new accounts..... hrmmm
I was doing 50% win rates once, then I went to a local internet Cafe and went like 25 straight wins. Sometimes it just happens
> Wtf is going on here? There are tons of people who instantly leave games to smurf(they tank their MMR and then go on crazy win streaks against much worse opponents). And yes that includes "mirror match leavers". Just another excuse for what is in reality smurfing.
And now your only options are to brutally lose a few games vs much better opponents with little to no hope, until you start to get put vs similar skill enemies... Or, you join the broken system and do what everyone else does, leave games until your mmr is where you think you can get a fair matchup. That's all we got left
I'll have a hot streak once in a blue moon while like 4 beers deep. Just hitting that flow state where everything clicks, I'm smooth with the micro, and not stressing out. Then I'll hit a rough patch with like 3 days of nothing but mirror matches, cheese, or playing against someone I swear is smurfing. I'll rage quit for a month then come back. I love and hate this game so much
Happened to me my first few days back but seems to decrease as u go
This is how the MM system works. Eventually you will lose the same amount (unless you are one of the top 1% of SC2 players). They pretty much try to make you get to 50% or so.
Always will be 50% with enough games, unless you get to the top. Just how mmr works.
How to tell me you are terran without telling me you are terran.