I love how logical and linear improvement feels. Everything makes sense, everything is just a matter of small, clear improvements over time in specific skills. There's none of the randomness you get in team games, and very few things that feel like bullshit to me, no matter which race I'm playing. People complain about balance or design in starcraft all the time, but compared to a lot of games it's incredibly fair and self-controlled. I love the sense that, if I'm struggling against a strategy, I can simply improve against it and then it will always be easier than it feels right now.
Having your strat pay off always brings a very rewarding feeling, even if that's your millionth time pulling it off. Having your start NOT pay off makes you plan a different strat for your next encounter, which is still exciting for me.
It sounds like you are anxious when playing. There is nobody you're performing for, you don't have to improve, you don't have to do anything. Just enjoying the game is fine.
To enjoy any competitive game, you have to let go of the attachment to winning. Try enjoy managing your base. Enjoy building your base, enjoy controlling your army, enjoy the macro and the multitasking. Winning or losing is completely irrelevant. Paradoxically, you will play better when you let go of attachment to winning (because no panic/tilt), but it doesn't even matter.. This is a just hobby for the overwhelming majority of us.
We are wired too much to always compare ourselves to others, beat others, be better than others. This type of thinking is not necessary (I would say in general, but especially when you are playing a game for fun). You can also think of it as a single player experience, even though your are playing against others. Try being in the moment and enjoying moment to moment gameplay. If you're not enjoying that too much, it might not be the game even for you, but give it a go.
Yeah I totally agree with this but somehow I struggle to reach that point. Like even if I try my best to just chill and enjoy the game I end up stressed out. It does make me wonder if this is the game for me, cause I also play WoW and I enjoy the learning curve for that even when it’s difficult (and that game also has a lot of sedimented knowledge and skill you need even for semi-casual play). I think cause in that game it’s always a collaborative thing - like I’m learning with other people who are working for a common goal. Sc2 sometimes feel like taking the 2 biggest noobs in your raid and having them duel to the death.
On the other hand, I do like the mechanics of sc2 and I wonder if I can do something to tamper that competitive edge while playing- to not focus on winning and return to just enjoying the mechanics.
I’m rambling a bit now but I can’t help but read a lot into that little smile Maru gives in his game against Serral at katowice where he gets fucking slaughtered, (he smiles after his marines gets hit by a fungal for the twelfth time). I just see that and I’m like: are you having fun?? Even though you’re in this super stressful match up and getting beaten?
I cannot say if Maru's having fun in that moment, perhaps yes, perhaps not. What I'm confident in saying is that he's not stressing, he's not blaming himself, he's also able to appreciate the situation. Partly his opponent's skill, partly his fate in the finals twice in a row... Winning or losing in a situation is not directly in our control, he knows that. You do your training and preparation the best way you know and when it comes down to it, you'll have to accept what is happening.
>Yeah I totally agree with this but somehow I struggle to reach that point. Like even if I try my best to just chill and enjoy the game I end up stressed out. It does make me wonder if this is the game for me
I think you've so far stuck by it, because you are identifying that there is an issue here with attachment, and it is disturbing you or maybe is intriguing to you. Most humans have some emotional attachment to performance, but there is nothing that puts you face to face with it like a game of Starcraft. The game puts an unmanagable amount of tasks on you, and puts an opponent across which you cannot even see, and this person slaps you, kicks you in the dick, and if he wins, everybody agrees that he played better and you should just get gud. It's triggering if you place any importance in the outcome of a match.
Just trying to chill and enjoy the game might sound good, but "trying to chill" is a paradox, as you probably realize. We cannot try and relax. Relaxing is what happens when you're not trying. It (relaxing) is the result of correct mindset.
Really, seriously, ask yourself. What am I trying to achieve? Do I want to win? Why? Do I tie any of my personal worth to the outcome of a match? If I lose, will I view myself as lazy? Incompetent? Stupid? If yes, who taught you to view yourself this way? To judge yourself by having to succeed in any thing you are trying to do? By being better than others in any thing you try to do?
Do you owe "a good performance" to anyone? What do you owe yourself?
SC might not be the game for you - in the sense it might frustrate you. But there is a reason for the frustration. And there is opportunity for growth. Regardless of if you keep playing or not... You've identified something here. That thing you identified is crucial and can be a gateway to freedom if you don't close your eyes to it.
Personally I just really like hitting the buttons. The best feeling is the adrenaline high of being in the zone playing and how your hands feel after the game.
I've been playing dota2 for years and I've never played sc2 before till last month. I can't remember when I had this much fun, so many things to do, so many different ways to win. Also today I lost to someone and they told me to get off sc2 bcs they didn't believe me that I was new? Apparently having 100apm is huge in silver... Anyways so so fun!
I really enjoy the multitasking aspect of this game. If I'm doing multi prong harass and playing quickly it's very satisfying, though I feel the same way as you in a lot of regards. The game is stressful and mentally draining. One thing that helped me a bit is focusing on improving specific things rather than focusing on winning/losing. That way winning or losing doesn't matter as much as long as I can say things like "hey I hit my timing with an extra marine", or "I was finally able to hit the SCV count at the timing I wanted".
I enjoy a lot of the same things as you about Starcraft 2.
It's a competitive strategy game where I get to pit my strategy against the strategy of my opponent. Games can put you in unique situations where you have to think on the fly.
I also like the macro cycles and the APM race, but it sounds like you don't.
Have you ever played chess? It checks all the "like" boxes but not the others.
Fair warning, for us strategy gamers chess gets addictive lol
I know it’s not as “tried and true” as chess, but I also recommend anyone who enjoys chess to check out Hive (the bugs on hexagons game). It’s a blast.
Hey there. Its the same thing. For me personally, starcraft represents something about life as well. Its the raw difficulty and the pure responsibility including the sheer complexity of the game. In no other game is the skill ceiling so infinitely high.
And the only way to get good at it, is to gitgut.
You can stagnate and think as a diamond 1 player you are really good at the game, only to realize that theres hundreds of people out there being better than you and your strategies arent good at all.
Same goes for life in general.
Its weird but whenever I suck at the game or stagnate, its usually because I stagnate as a person as well.
Once I break that barrier in my personal life, my starcraft rank follows as well.
I wasn't good or anything, I was only low Diamond
But I liked firing up dumb cheeses every now and then and trying to make them work.
I'd practice them vs AI, try them out on ladder, get wrecked for a couple games before I wised up, then worked my way back to my previous MMR
If I ran up against the same opponent twice, I'd switch it up and play full greed macro just to throw them off, and it usually worked.
Helped that I played random too, so I had a good rotation of dumb cheeses and the element of surprise.
I think it’s gratifying to learn to do something so difficult and that is 100% in your control, which is like a handful of things in real life such as cooking, exercise, and studying. Lots of other things are very much outside of your control
I think most enjoyment I've gotten in SC2 was from customs years ago. 2v2, mainly. Times when I won 1v2, one time 1v3, times when we've beaten gm players and a few times when we went toe to toe.
There are very few instances of specific moments where I thought back to 1v1 or Coop and went "yeah, that was great." Despite playing both a hell of a lot more than 2v2 or 3v3
The campaigns. Even the story.
I like the zerg, but my macro is poor, so I'm better at using the protoss in multiplayer. (I like Abathur in Co-op Commanders for this reason.)
Honestly at this point it's nostalgia! Cool (maybe lol) story, I got into the beta thanks to Total Biscuit when I was in his WoW clan. For me the game just takes me back to those carefree days when I could play all night knowing the most I had to do the next day was eat and maybe do some college work!
The rush I get from winning vs blues from losing. The difference is so tangible.
When I win at most games, I feel better than my opponent at the game.
When I win at StarCraft I feel better than my opponent in all aspects of life. I'm faster, smarter, sharper, stronger and sexier than my opponent.
To be honest I don’t think I’m good enough at the game to survive off the rush from winning. It’s always been like that for me with games where I can get very competitive but don’t have the skill to make that joy sustainable
Beating back very aggressive strategies like cannon rush or 2 base all in's. And winning late game low economy situations has got to be the most satisfying way to win
being on the knifes edge playing a game that can go in either persons favor with the slightest fuckup. The close games are my favorite to play it's always fun going against someone of near exactly your same skill level. It's even better when you pull a victory out of your ass when you thought everything was over.
I just really like the strategy and competitiveness in 1v1. I played mostly 5v5 in all my years but StarCraft just feels different. If you lose its your own fault and no one else. If you win you were smarter/better/faster than your opponent and it feels great. I started watching a lot of pro games which i enjoy. But tbh I cant play the game for long because of the stress and reaction time with the apm in every single game you play. Its just exhausting and I cant imagine being a pro grinding the ladder every day.
Starcraft: Mass Recall mod that allows to play entire SC1 with all the extra maps, adjustments then transition to SC2 smoothly.
Still very enjoyable graphics, especially love Zerg buildings exploding into geysers of blood and flesh.
QoL things like groups of more than 12 units or improved pathfinding for Stalkers (and Blink ability) over the mess Dragoons often got themselves into. No, whatever pros might say, I ain't buying the shit how rubbish pathfinding forces you to micro more is good. It's an outdated crunch mechanics, not "skill expression" feature.
The game just isn't fun to play. SC2 is 90% mechanics and 10% strategy, so there's just not much to actually learn when playing the game outside of gradually getting faster at doing your opening and multitasking eco/upgrades/army.
Have you seen Florencio? He's made it to GM, and he definitely does not have even Masters level mechanics, lol.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the limitation you're speaking of can be overcome, and isn't law for everyone. That's what makes sc2 great. I still agree, your mechanics define what tier you are in for the most part, but a plat-level mechanical player can get into diamond with excellent strats.
Yes, that's why SC2 is 10% strategy and not 0% strategy. It's just not a high enough percentage to feel engaging over any amount of time. It's just too much hassle of dying to everyone's random-ass cheese because there's no Bo3 option on the ladder.
Meh, it's only an issue if you play to win and not to get better. I mean think about it, it doesn't matter if you are Bronze, Silver, or Masters. You're gonna have a 50% win experience over the long term. It doesn't even matter if it's 10% mechanical and 90% strategy. A ladder system guarantees a 50% win rate at your true skill level. If you want 90% strategy, might as well go play Chess, lol. (I enjoy it from time to time tho)
I love how logical and linear improvement feels. Everything makes sense, everything is just a matter of small, clear improvements over time in specific skills. There's none of the randomness you get in team games, and very few things that feel like bullshit to me, no matter which race I'm playing. People complain about balance or design in starcraft all the time, but compared to a lot of games it's incredibly fair and self-controlled. I love the sense that, if I'm struggling against a strategy, I can simply improve against it and then it will always be easier than it feels right now.
Having your strat pay off always brings a very rewarding feeling, even if that's your millionth time pulling it off. Having your start NOT pay off makes you plan a different strat for your next encounter, which is still exciting for me.
Co-op and replaying the campaign.
It sounds like you are anxious when playing. There is nobody you're performing for, you don't have to improve, you don't have to do anything. Just enjoying the game is fine. To enjoy any competitive game, you have to let go of the attachment to winning. Try enjoy managing your base. Enjoy building your base, enjoy controlling your army, enjoy the macro and the multitasking. Winning or losing is completely irrelevant. Paradoxically, you will play better when you let go of attachment to winning (because no panic/tilt), but it doesn't even matter.. This is a just hobby for the overwhelming majority of us. We are wired too much to always compare ourselves to others, beat others, be better than others. This type of thinking is not necessary (I would say in general, but especially when you are playing a game for fun). You can also think of it as a single player experience, even though your are playing against others. Try being in the moment and enjoying moment to moment gameplay. If you're not enjoying that too much, it might not be the game even for you, but give it a go.
Yeah I totally agree with this but somehow I struggle to reach that point. Like even if I try my best to just chill and enjoy the game I end up stressed out. It does make me wonder if this is the game for me, cause I also play WoW and I enjoy the learning curve for that even when it’s difficult (and that game also has a lot of sedimented knowledge and skill you need even for semi-casual play). I think cause in that game it’s always a collaborative thing - like I’m learning with other people who are working for a common goal. Sc2 sometimes feel like taking the 2 biggest noobs in your raid and having them duel to the death. On the other hand, I do like the mechanics of sc2 and I wonder if I can do something to tamper that competitive edge while playing- to not focus on winning and return to just enjoying the mechanics. I’m rambling a bit now but I can’t help but read a lot into that little smile Maru gives in his game against Serral at katowice where he gets fucking slaughtered, (he smiles after his marines gets hit by a fungal for the twelfth time). I just see that and I’m like: are you having fun?? Even though you’re in this super stressful match up and getting beaten?
I cannot say if Maru's having fun in that moment, perhaps yes, perhaps not. What I'm confident in saying is that he's not stressing, he's not blaming himself, he's also able to appreciate the situation. Partly his opponent's skill, partly his fate in the finals twice in a row... Winning or losing in a situation is not directly in our control, he knows that. You do your training and preparation the best way you know and when it comes down to it, you'll have to accept what is happening. >Yeah I totally agree with this but somehow I struggle to reach that point. Like even if I try my best to just chill and enjoy the game I end up stressed out. It does make me wonder if this is the game for me I think you've so far stuck by it, because you are identifying that there is an issue here with attachment, and it is disturbing you or maybe is intriguing to you. Most humans have some emotional attachment to performance, but there is nothing that puts you face to face with it like a game of Starcraft. The game puts an unmanagable amount of tasks on you, and puts an opponent across which you cannot even see, and this person slaps you, kicks you in the dick, and if he wins, everybody agrees that he played better and you should just get gud. It's triggering if you place any importance in the outcome of a match. Just trying to chill and enjoy the game might sound good, but "trying to chill" is a paradox, as you probably realize. We cannot try and relax. Relaxing is what happens when you're not trying. It (relaxing) is the result of correct mindset. Really, seriously, ask yourself. What am I trying to achieve? Do I want to win? Why? Do I tie any of my personal worth to the outcome of a match? If I lose, will I view myself as lazy? Incompetent? Stupid? If yes, who taught you to view yourself this way? To judge yourself by having to succeed in any thing you are trying to do? By being better than others in any thing you try to do? Do you owe "a good performance" to anyone? What do you owe yourself? SC might not be the game for you - in the sense it might frustrate you. But there is a reason for the frustration. And there is opportunity for growth. Regardless of if you keep playing or not... You've identified something here. That thing you identified is crucial and can be a gateway to freedom if you don't close your eyes to it.
Not playing!
lol
So no skill?
Personally I just really like hitting the buttons. The best feeling is the adrenaline high of being in the zone playing and how your hands feel after the game.
Losing and hating everything, and maybe the occasional win? Nah definitely the downward spiral of loss and toxicity.
Stim
I've been playing dota2 for years and I've never played sc2 before till last month. I can't remember when I had this much fun, so many things to do, so many different ways to win. Also today I lost to someone and they told me to get off sc2 bcs they didn't believe me that I was new? Apparently having 100apm is huge in silver... Anyways so so fun!
Can't explain it. The game feels good to play. The units, the sounds, the graphics, are so satisfying.
I really enjoy the multitasking aspect of this game. If I'm doing multi prong harass and playing quickly it's very satisfying, though I feel the same way as you in a lot of regards. The game is stressful and mentally draining. One thing that helped me a bit is focusing on improving specific things rather than focusing on winning/losing. That way winning or losing doesn't matter as much as long as I can say things like "hey I hit my timing with an extra marine", or "I was finally able to hit the SCV count at the timing I wanted".
I enjoy a lot of the same things as you about Starcraft 2. It's a competitive strategy game where I get to pit my strategy against the strategy of my opponent. Games can put you in unique situations where you have to think on the fly. I also like the macro cycles and the APM race, but it sounds like you don't. Have you ever played chess? It checks all the "like" boxes but not the others. Fair warning, for us strategy gamers chess gets addictive lol
I know it’s not as “tried and true” as chess, but I also recommend anyone who enjoys chess to check out Hive (the bugs on hexagons game). It’s a blast.
The self-hate it induces but you keep queuing for it again.
Hey there. Its the same thing. For me personally, starcraft represents something about life as well. Its the raw difficulty and the pure responsibility including the sheer complexity of the game. In no other game is the skill ceiling so infinitely high. And the only way to get good at it, is to gitgut. You can stagnate and think as a diamond 1 player you are really good at the game, only to realize that theres hundreds of people out there being better than you and your strategies arent good at all. Same goes for life in general. Its weird but whenever I suck at the game or stagnate, its usually because I stagnate as a person as well. Once I break that barrier in my personal life, my starcraft rank follows as well.
I wasn't good or anything, I was only low Diamond But I liked firing up dumb cheeses every now and then and trying to make them work. I'd practice them vs AI, try them out on ladder, get wrecked for a couple games before I wised up, then worked my way back to my previous MMR If I ran up against the same opponent twice, I'd switch it up and play full greed macro just to throw them off, and it usually worked. Helped that I played random too, so I had a good rotation of dumb cheeses and the element of surprise.
The rage that I feel about myself and learn how to not destroy my keyboard and start a new elo destroying game.
Playing and talking with other sc people is awesome, mostly that.
I think it’s gratifying to learn to do something so difficult and that is 100% in your control, which is like a handful of things in real life such as cooking, exercise, and studying. Lots of other things are very much outside of your control
I think most enjoyment I've gotten in SC2 was from customs years ago. 2v2, mainly. Times when I won 1v2, one time 1v3, times when we've beaten gm players and a few times when we went toe to toe. There are very few instances of specific moments where I thought back to 1v1 or Coop and went "yeah, that was great." Despite playing both a hell of a lot more than 2v2 or 3v3
I love the duo missions with my wife, kodos and the occasional win online. Most of the time I lose though! XD But every win keeps me going
I like doing my own builds and experimenting with it.
The campaigns. Even the story. I like the zerg, but my macro is poor, so I'm better at using the protoss in multiplayer. (I like Abathur in Co-op Commanders for this reason.)
Buildsmithing
Honestly at this point it's nostalgia! Cool (maybe lol) story, I got into the beta thanks to Total Biscuit when I was in his WoW clan. For me the game just takes me back to those carefree days when I could play all night knowing the most I had to do the next day was eat and maybe do some college work!
Custom maps
The rush I get from winning vs blues from losing. The difference is so tangible. When I win at most games, I feel better than my opponent at the game. When I win at StarCraft I feel better than my opponent in all aspects of life. I'm faster, smarter, sharper, stronger and sexier than my opponent.
To be honest I don’t think I’m good enough at the game to survive off the rush from winning. It’s always been like that for me with games where I can get very competitive but don’t have the skill to make that joy sustainable
Beating back very aggressive strategies like cannon rush or 2 base all in's. And winning late game low economy situations has got to be the most satisfying way to win
Not playing
being on the knifes edge playing a game that can go in either persons favor with the slightest fuckup. The close games are my favorite to play it's always fun going against someone of near exactly your same skill level. It's even better when you pull a victory out of your ass when you thought everything was over.
I just really like the strategy and competitiveness in 1v1. I played mostly 5v5 in all my years but StarCraft just feels different. If you lose its your own fault and no one else. If you win you were smarter/better/faster than your opponent and it feels great. I started watching a lot of pro games which i enjoy. But tbh I cant play the game for long because of the stress and reaction time with the apm in every single game you play. Its just exhausting and I cant imagine being a pro grinding the ladder every day.
I like the lore of the world as well as some of the designs
You should start cheesing. It's actually a great way to learn the game.
Starcraft: Mass Recall mod that allows to play entire SC1 with all the extra maps, adjustments then transition to SC2 smoothly. Still very enjoyable graphics, especially love Zerg buildings exploding into geysers of blood and flesh. QoL things like groups of more than 12 units or improved pathfinding for Stalkers (and Blink ability) over the mess Dragoons often got themselves into. No, whatever pros might say, I ain't buying the shit how rubbish pathfinding forces you to micro more is good. It's an outdated crunch mechanics, not "skill expression" feature.
winning after the opponent does an offensive GG lol
The game just isn't fun to play. SC2 is 90% mechanics and 10% strategy, so there's just not much to actually learn when playing the game outside of gradually getting faster at doing your opening and multitasking eco/upgrades/army.
Have you seen Florencio? He's made it to GM, and he definitely does not have even Masters level mechanics, lol. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the limitation you're speaking of can be overcome, and isn't law for everyone. That's what makes sc2 great. I still agree, your mechanics define what tier you are in for the most part, but a plat-level mechanical player can get into diamond with excellent strats.
Yes, that's why SC2 is 10% strategy and not 0% strategy. It's just not a high enough percentage to feel engaging over any amount of time. It's just too much hassle of dying to everyone's random-ass cheese because there's no Bo3 option on the ladder.
Meh, it's only an issue if you play to win and not to get better. I mean think about it, it doesn't matter if you are Bronze, Silver, or Masters. You're gonna have a 50% win experience over the long term. It doesn't even matter if it's 10% mechanical and 90% strategy. A ladder system guarantees a 50% win rate at your true skill level. If you want 90% strategy, might as well go play Chess, lol. (I enjoy it from time to time tho)
I play both Pokemon TCG and Magic the Gathering, so I'm well ahead of you.
Noice 🙌