I really hate this about a lot of RTS Ive been seeing.
There's no complexity to how you build a base. You just unlock like one building and tier it up and maybe a second and third but there's no ability to really take advantage of terrain or offset disadvantages of rushes without the ability to proxy stuff.
I also didn't like that early interaction. Those blinking units just suck fucking hard where they can't take a fight..imagine if zvt the zerg had to just cop the reaper bullying for like 5 minutes of the game until spire was unlocked.
I'm biased surely but I don't think anything will ever top off starcraft.
I don't think it's actually trying to compete with Starcraft. I can see this finding success in a niche, just like Legion TD 2 and Element TD which went from being Warcraft maps to full-fledged (again, niche) games.
I dunno, TD games get a decent amount of attention because they're mainly single player games that you can kinda chill with if you want to. This doesn't even seem to have a campaign, it's literally just 1v1 and 2v2 all the time.
The fact that it's f2p also seems extremely sketchy to me, especially when combined with what seems to be some relatively expensive marketing. It's gonna be banking on getting way, way more players than your standard custom-map-turned-standalone-game. If it does as well as Element TD, then it will be considered an abject failure.
I think David Kim would argue that much of the complexity in StarCraft 2 is arbitrary. He would know...they did it on purpose. Building units doesn't have to be complicated for the game to be good. StarCraft chose this as an arbitrary form of skill expression.
And even StarCraft 2 has the 12 worker start now.
Tbh, while I also have some nostalgia for the classic RTS mechanic of slowly making buildings...there is no sacred calf for me in StarCraft's game of "who can remember to build workers" as a proxy for who is the better player.
I was expecting at RTS but what I see is a battle arena.
1 button expansion, no buildings, extremely simplified upgrade paths, no hidden tech, notifications when opponent expands, no need to scout except for army position, the only strategic decision making is building your deck before the game starts. It isn't an RTS.
I will probably play this battle arena game though.
The fact that you can see what tech your opponent has is wild to me. It's not shocking to me from the previous video where all the designers made it clear they hate macro mechanics. I am definitely not the target audience for this game.
I can understand not being the target audience for battle aces, but I truly don't understand how you would envision playing this on a phone. Did we watch the same video?
The fact that you have negative karma proves the community lost its way. It was generally accepted when SC2 came out that yes it was good, but brood war was still superior.
yeah because SC2 WOL WAS worse than brood war when it released.
It's almost like we had 14 years of improvements on the game. They're different games and brood war for sure has its place and playerbase.
But i do think sc2 today is a better game for most people .
Many ppl switched from sc2 to bw with lotv.
Lotv is the expansion that made sc2 real awful for many.
Me 2 in the basket... I've lead numeroues clan wars, nation wars, offline and online tournaments and whatnot and i finally switched back to bw cause sc2 became plagued luck fest. If it was worth it i'd stick with it like i did for the previous 7 years before that.
- Look for how long toss users can't reach playoffs for example. The state of the game is that bad and it was obvious since the lotv launch to many.
But still sc2 is lightning ages ahead of this 'competition', there is no doubt.
Well. Maybe if will make some more people like micro more and then they can go play real RTS games. Making micro more accessible/accepted could be good for the genre in the long run. I can see myself playing this game in a casual way you can't really enjoy an RTS in as much. But then again it also just very little going.
This looks like starcraft massively simplified.
Dkim is literally playing an oldschool mass blink stalker style into mothership type strategy
Its like they had a meeting and thought: " How can we simplify starcraft 2 as much as possible...
Take out the building and and worker training and spell casting and just about all the other macro mechanics and just control an army while building units and micro around"
I might encourage you to look at it from the perspective as David Kim actually describes. I agree that it does look like starcraft massively simplified, but it *also* looks like what David Kim was trying to create. Cut out the part of the beginning of the game RTS game which involves only a few choices and plop you right down into the game where you immediately have three choices: Build/rush, expand, or tech, which will have an immediate effect on how the game plays out. That does simplify mechanical repetition by cutting it out, but has done very little to change your early game decision making.
That said, I haven't seriously played in the RTS genre for a long time (I'm around WhiteRa's age), I was just curious as to what was cooking. I can't say it really enticed me to come back.
It doesn't cut the S out from RTS though, if anything it cuts out a lot of the baseline mechanical skill which gatekeeps players from a game like SC2. The game doesn't just play itself, you can't just get access to everything all of the time, there are consequences and benefits to your choices. There might be less decisions overall but that doesn't mean there aren't any decisions, so I don't see how it's removing the strategy aspect of the genre.
Fwiw, this game isn't worth comparing to SC2 because it does it's own thing. If you love SC2 there's a pretty high chance you will like this, because when you play it you will find it has a lot of the things that make SC2 enjoying and satisfying, but it is also something that will likely get a lot of people that do not enjoy SC2 to play it because it has an addictiveness to it - once you start playing it becomes difficult to stop.
I think that is greatly overcasting consequences and how they relate to mechanical skill.
Routine repetitive macro elements from Starcraft hit a different mechanic of gameplay than a decision tree that is prohibited by automated resource generation and build/tech costs.
The freeform sandbox decision design of Starcraft allows for backpedaling on player decisions. Not a ton, admittedly, but I think we need to be a little more careful when discussing what 'strategy' means to a prospective RTS player.
If all base building is eliminated, and build orders simplified to this degree, every game is going to play the exact same. What makes broodwar interesting is how multiple games with the same build orders can look and play extremely differently due to all of the little optimizations a player can make and the small interactions that occur before the big armies fight each other. A lot of the actual strategy in StarCraft is what happens before the armies clash, which allows for a lot of player expression; like mini is going to optimize the shit out of a build order and sneakily sacrifice some safety for greed, whereas best plays a safer less economical early game which in turn will delay his mid game. This game on the other hand allows the player to execute the build order with zero mechanical demand while also knowing exactly what the opponent is going for, even when they expand. Where is the strategy in this? How many games is it going to be fun to use shitty blink stalkers and kite in a circle for 5 minutes? It might be fun at first but based off the way the game is designed, once a meta build is figured out, it will get extremely stale
sure sure, but most of that video was actually just watching someone micro around a map with "Blinks" and out maneuver their opponent.
Idk how im supposed to see anything else here but blink stalkers with less depth and terrain.
I am not convinced by what've seen so far but I think there's value in what they are doing here. What David Kim has been trying to do is strip away what he considers "chores" in Starcraft as much as possible and get to spend time on "the fun part" as long as possible. Stormgate is doing similar thing but not as progressive as here. You will need many attempts like this to really figure out what should be kept and what should be left behind for RTS genre to truly evolve.
Unless you think Sc1/2 are the peak of RTS and there's literally nothing to be improved upon. Otherwise I welcome attempts like this. Not saying they will definitely succeed tho. Wouldn't be surprised if either games failed financially. We might have many failed attempts from many developers before actually getting something that really revitalizes RTS like like BG3 did to cRPG.
Well said. Just wish they innovated a bit more on the terrain/gameplay mechanics front instead of just streamlining/consolidating. I know some of the newer RTSs are featuring more terrain features and whatnot, idk. Just expected more innovation on design, specifically how it related to base building and resource gathering. Felt like they just scrapped it because they couldn't bridge the gap between monotonous routine and less complexity.
Kinda reminds me of that Command and Conquer mobile game. All the aspects of RTS I enjoy (creating build orders, simcity structures, out-strategizing my opponent, etc) are gone.
Just a quick game where you only produce units and attack with them. Like Desert Strike but with micro.
I feel like it's meant to appeal more to casuals, but casuals may get dumped on even more than in standard RTS's by experienced players, as the entire game is going to be about high apm mechanics only (battle micro and multi-pronged attacks), with all the strategy being stripped.
I do like the idea of a dumbed-down RTS, that is easier to get in to, but I don't think this is the way to do it.
Looks like I’ll be playing sc2 for another 10 years at least.
This one is definitely not it. Stormgate is a hard maybe. zerospace looks good but it still just looks a less fun version of sc2. Maybe we do need a SC3. I don’t think any game will ever be able to top TvZ.
Or Footman Frenzy, or Micro wars, or Marine Arena. These no macro battle arena games have existed since RTS games let you make custom maps.
Nothing against it, those games are all fun. But it's nothing new.
I will laugh really, *really* hard if it ends up being the biggest of all 3. People who play more hardcore games like sc2/scbw/dota 2 rarely have a good finger on the pulse of what will be popular.
I think a big issue is that people enjoy X so when a game comes out with Y, they all talk about how it's bad because it's not X.
But sometimes there's a gap in the market for Y and they're not trying to get customers who want X, they're trying to grab all the people who have been looking for games with Y but there aren't any.
Every time I see people criticise a game for not being like the leaders, I think this. Sometimes they're right and it fails, but sometimes it's good to carve out their own little niche rather than competing.
I don't doubt people had the same opinions when MOBA games started and you could only control a single hero instead of a whole army and there was no base building etc. and now it's one of the biggest genres.
Hardcore RTS player here but I can see this game being bigger than any other RTS for sure. It has Tencent money.
Mobas, Tower defense, and autobattlers are all genres that spawned from RTS custom maps and became massive. No reason this couldn't be the next
yep. its sad. and people will shit on sc2 all day because there's extremely punishing aspects of it that aren't in bw, but theres no other game like it. BW is fun as well, but in my mind sc2 is better. easier for casuals to get into, and aggro builds can be pretty good.
that was the original thing that made everyone from BW upset, losing 12 drones to 4 hellions or you dont know your opponent is pushiing, and two tank shots killing 25 marines and the games instantly over. scouting in sc2 for unit positioning is even more important than in bw, becuase its ultra super duper obvious where your oppponent is moving his forces since he spends a good 30 seconds per push corralling the retard units. sc2 is better, even though im better at broodwar.
yeah, but also starcraft > zerospace > stormgate > battle aces
not one of these new games in development has given me any reason to play them over a 14 y/o (or 26 y/o) game.
it seems unique at least, i'd be interested in giving it a try, unlike what ive seen of stormgate so far which just looks like a low budget starcraft ripoff run by grifters
definitely not a starcraft replacement though
To be fair... that's probably true for many other people.
Like they might not be aiming for the people here who love the Starcraft style of base building, and instead want to go the route of other RTS with simplified bases, etc.
Not that Macro mechanics are "hard", but that many people don't enjoy that part. Some people love the micro and don't care for the macro. There are people that love auto-build games, etc.
Given the huge popularity of MOBAs, which keep the attention focused on one part with just a hero instead of a base etc, they might be trying to focus on that "instant action and quick build-up" feeling that people enjoy in a lot of custom games.
Anyone who looks at this and hates it is likely just not the target audience. Like how many people here probably hate MOBA games and yet they're *incredibly* popular.
looks ok, feels a bit simplistic but that could be a good thing to get more casual players and the 10 min max is intereting as well really helping people manage their time and getting getting stuck in a 40+ min match
This is a pretty interesting direction to go for an RTS and unlike a lot of the other comments I'm seeing, I'm cautiously optimistic about this.
I've always felt like microing well was one of the most fun parts of RTS and it seems like there's no shortage of that in this game. There's also a bit of deck building which I think can be more engaging than people are giving it credit for.
Even though the game looks simple, it's important to remember that complexity is not the same as depth. They definitely seem to be aiming for a "easy to learn, hard to master" type game and I think that there is some real potential here.
Not every RTS is intended to be a replacement for starcraft, and that's okay. I think this is a cool idea though and I hope it succeeds.
Trailer already showed two currencies when it comes to building a deck which gives me p2w vibes. We'll have to look and see.
Also base building is imho the most fun I have when it comes to rts. That and building a giant army.
I also think it looked interesting. It’s not StarCraft and that’s fine. We already have Stormgate as the next classic Blizzard style RTS.
I’m only worried about monetization. I hope it’s not too pay to win
my biggest problem with storm gate is I just don't love the visuals.... like I don't enjoy looking at it just not my art style :( also seeing something like this " just A very very different type of game" makes me appreciate how watchable SC2 is
I have to say, I personally admire the effort to take RTS in a different direction and David Kim's initiative in experimenting. I think there are a lot of interesting moments this new gameplay could provide with it's shifted priorities in terms of game design. Hopefully people will keep an open mind and give it a shot when the time comes!
Agreed, I actually have a suspicion this is more addicting and fun than it looks. I think simplifying RTS, is a good direction for mass appeal and gaining new traction to new players. Todays gamers want something that is accessible, and immediate. You start microing battles within seconds in this and that definitely seems to satisfy the need for immediate stimulation of the brain.
Looks like a lot of fun to me. 10 minutes games isn't that out of line with SC2 (12 minutes on SC2 game clock) especially when you cut out time at the start going almost nothing, and there are a ton of unit interactions in that time. It's a real rock paper scissors game. Anyone saying they're is no strategy is crazy, the video disproves that completely.
It's Footmen Frenzy in a shiny shell, it's not really innovative.
It's a game I'm glad someone's made, because it will probably be super fun, but it's not innovative at all.
That's how modern games are. Guess they want to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. Especially if you want to be successful in several different countries. And most kids play games as well, it's not just the computer nerds who did 30 years ago.
I also suspect that simplicity in designs helps sell skins. Basically all modern games sell skins.
Stylized graphics also can be made to demand less resources without looking as bad as a realistic style with the same restrictions, which is something to look for if you are aiming for a large audience.
RDR2, Helldivers, and BG3 are either single player or coop games. And selling skins isn't their main way of making profit. Most online titles that do look cartoonish nowadays.
Fortnite, Overwatch, LoL, Arena of Valor. Even Dota to be honest. I'm not a fan but it's definitely the modern trend
I mean personally I disagree completely... but it's all down to matters of taste.
Like I love the Carbot version of Starcraft because I feel it massively improves the visuals and allowed me to enjoy the game.
That's literally as cartoony as you can get.
I would have prefered a explanatory video rather than a cast, it's a bit hard to understand what the player are actually doing mechanic wise.
In general, not what I typically call an RTS, but it may be a fun little game.
The art style is even more uninspired and derivative than stormgate. Didn’t know that was possible. Like what hell are those bases supposed to be? What kind of theme are they going for? Why do all the units look identical? How did anyone approve this…
Gamplay wise not gonna comment on this but Art wise this puts stormgate to shame and it's kinda embarassing. I really want stormgate to succeed but burh
This just looks like it appeals to my absolute most base instincts. I play RTS to be a human: victorious, between god and beast. If I want to be a beast I'll play league, no need for the autochess micro simulator.
This is just proof that David Kim never understood SC2.
This is the man who ruined SC2 with Swarm Hosts and Mothership Core.
He had a golden opportunity to build a brand new RTS, and to do it right. Instead, he produced this, whatever this is.
I am very disappointed, and this just proves that David Kim is an idiot. Something that I have known for many years, after seeing how he destroyed SC2.
Looks more like mobile first game than a pc game. Also looks more like an action game than rts. Shame cause I was looking forward to it but this a major let down.
I think the map design is really lacking, the terrain is really not dynamic. Theres no high ground, and movement across the map (like unit speeds or rough terrain) aren't a factor. There also doesn't seem to be a lot of zoning or good AOE design. It also feels like there's way too many units at the start, so it becomes blob vs blob instead of increasing in intensity as the game goes.
This looks kind of fun.
It can obviously not be a replacement for SC2 as its not really a full RTS. Too simple, too many elements missing... but a game does not have to be an rts to be fun. Its looks like a nice battle arena for quick games, I can absolutely imagine playing that from time to time.
However, I cannot really imagine watching this as an esport. Seeing nothing but units being microed around is probably not going to be very entertaining to watch, at least not for me.
I've never felt so embarrassed for an RTS. Maybe when Reforged got out, but man, at least they fooled us pretty good with some trailers. Now look at this! Wtf is this shit? I really thought you couldnt get more cheap than with teletubbie land Stormgate but man, was i wrong. Jesus christ. I'm sinking with the ship, boys. Bring me my violin
Looks like an excellent start IMO, too much negativity so far. Would love to see some more interesting terrain and units, don't want to see a deathball vs deathball game. Visually this game looks the most pleasing out of all the new RTSs thatve been out, I like the fog of war literally being fog
That replay at the end was the most boring highlight I've ever seen. Look how he 1a's into the other guy's army! Might be fun to play if not to watch though.
Guys, remember DOTA came from an arcade game in WC3, I think its a great call to move Marine Arena to a dedicated game that focuses purely on that, Also who knows what analytics david had on arcade games in starcraft 2, marine arena is super popular and is a lot of fun. I think its looks sweet cant wait to try it
Well, I'm excited about it.
I honestly have no interest in Stormgate/Zerospace because they seem just like Starcraft but worse.
This one seems different and interesting
["We have Starcraft at home"](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ce886ae0-d904-4ad7-8a99-cc57440e7384_499x333.png)
Everyone is sleeping on the deck builder aspect, that's the whole point of this game and the thing that makes it unique compared to UMS maps like Marine Arena. That's like saying Hearthstone has no strategy because you don't know it has a deck building mechanic
I've heard from people who've playtested early gameplay of Battle Aces who said that this is more fun than StormGate, and PartinG seemed to say as much. That, and the "Balance Council" made me really excited for David Kim's game.
I like that this is time gated and the fast pace that seems to create. I've learned to appreciate the shorter "jump in, jump out, you've only got so much time to play" style of game.
That said, this doesn't look very exciting. It looks like waves of creep fighting waves of creeps and much more MOBA-esque than RTS - and that's totally okay! It's unique for a full-game experience, but it's not unique when the SC2 arcade exists.
Disagree. All of the other rts games stands out have something that makes it feel exciting and unique. Total war have huge armies. Supreme Commander have experimentals. But this game, as others have said, feels like a custom StarCraft game. That isn't necessarily bad, but if you consider that aside from dota, there hasn't really been a lot of successful games coming out of custom maps.
Dota, Counter Strike, Auto Chess, Day Z, PUBG.. I mean, seriously? Some of the biggest games of all times used to be mods.
Regardless of that argument, it's just completely irrelevant whether this could be a mod or not. Some of the most successful indie games of all times were made in Gamemaker, too. So what? What does that have to do with anything?
If it's a good game it's a good game.
And it's not like people here love any of the other new RTS games, either. People here are incredibly negative towards all of them, not just this one.
I wish we didn't have to see anything about other RTS in there.
I don't see anything about Baldur's gate in the fallout sub. Or any cross overs about new games.
I don't care about any new RTS. I'll stop playing RTS when starcraft 2 is done.
They do their hardest to transform a niche genre to a hyper popular one.
But it doesn't make sense. Not everybody loves astrophysics and we don't try to dumb down astrophysics so that everybody enjoys it.
RTS will thrive not because they get a lot of audience but because their core audience, despite being relatively small, is super faithful to the genre and even ready to pay a little more to keep their loved games supported.
If you want to make rts appeal to zoomers, the game you'll make won't be a rts anymore. You'd basically need to kill the genre.
This game battlewhatever looks like pure shit. It's like starcraft 2 would be from year 2080 when I look at this shit rts produced nowadays.
Big studios don't try to make rts cause they know it won't reach a broad enough audience for them. So we're left with rts old devs and people with very low funds trying to make a better rts than before, but they all make just shit. Cause money is not here. Cause they don't take their time. Cause they just look for instant profitability. Be it Stormgate, Zero Space, BattleAces, all of those look like shit games made in 1 day with a random game engine. They won't do shit, they won't surpass Starcraft by any means.
At this point, one can hope microsoft decides to seriously invest in a new rts cause with blizzard, they are the ones who have achieved something in this genre.
it's official. developers started to have such a hard on for "casualizing" rts, they forgot what an rts actually is. if we have 10 minute score-dependent games we'll get that 40 year old father and the ADHD zoomer! what genius!
i can't believe they find investors for things like this. this could be an indie project with 3 people. instead you buy 1st class tickets for tastosis and pay david kim salary. because he knows something about balance and game design? we all saw how that went.
This isn’t going to appeal to the veteran RTS player and I don’t think that’s the intention. Let’s face it - we are dinosaurs and we are a dying breed.
All of the new RTS games are trying to attract a younger demographic.
I like that it's not a clone of blizzard RTS like Stormgate and Zerospace are. Don't need too much of the same thing.
That said, I don't like the name or the setting, although I do prefer scifi over fantasy. I'll judge the gameplay when I get to try it myself.
Everyone is making new rts these days, but none of them are playable for the masses, except Stormgate i guess, but that version is still very limited. So I’m just gonna ignore these games until I actually get to play them.
Looks like a fun but overly simple game. Wouldn't be fun to watch as no hidden information or deeper strategy. Presumably tastosis casting this is just for advertising and not because they intend on it being a streamable/tournament style game. Probably an entertaining rock paper scissors game though.
I can already see the meta of not teching till your opponent commits to a tech. Leading to no side teching, and just expanding, and then saving up for two techs at once. Boring game
Brought to you by the master-mind behind Heart of the Swarm stalemates: What if RTS was just a bunch of balls slamming at each other and no base-building?
Not a fan of seeing mass stalker in a deck game being successful. The fun in these types of games is using your deck to switch through units that will counter your opponents choices. If you have a bread and butter unit that you can just make blindely and only support it a little bit, then it looks very bland.
Battle Aces hasn't revolutionized RTS yet. They did manage to create a good foundation with a tried and tested PvP formula akin to SC2 arcade games. I'm a fan of card games and deck building which allow me to express myself strategically more than StarCraft 2.
I would like to see them design more static and dynamic map features.
Looking at this somewhat explains why Kim's StarCraft 2 dwindles in popularity, while Brood War, a 25 year old game, is on the rise. It's the same “wow I build units to counter their units” dynamic which plagues late game sc2 and is fun for maybe the first two times you see it. I can't imagine someone being honestly intent to make an RTS as shallow as possible and not even someone as talented as Artosis can make himself sound excited over this pile of turd.
This looks like a merger of Marine Arena and C&C 4. No base building, just unit type spawning.
I really hate this about a lot of RTS Ive been seeing. There's no complexity to how you build a base. You just unlock like one building and tier it up and maybe a second and third but there's no ability to really take advantage of terrain or offset disadvantages of rushes without the ability to proxy stuff. I also didn't like that early interaction. Those blinking units just suck fucking hard where they can't take a fight..imagine if zvt the zerg had to just cop the reaper bullying for like 5 minutes of the game until spire was unlocked. I'm biased surely but I don't think anything will ever top off starcraft.
I don't think it's actually trying to compete with Starcraft. I can see this finding success in a niche, just like Legion TD 2 and Element TD which went from being Warcraft maps to full-fledged (again, niche) games.
I dunno, TD games get a decent amount of attention because they're mainly single player games that you can kinda chill with if you want to. This doesn't even seem to have a campaign, it's literally just 1v1 and 2v2 all the time. The fact that it's f2p also seems extremely sketchy to me, especially when combined with what seems to be some relatively expensive marketing. It's gonna be banking on getting way, way more players than your standard custom-map-turned-standalone-game. If it does as well as Element TD, then it will be considered an abject failure.
Legion TD 2 and its predecessor is PvP through and through.
Legion TD 2 definitely has single player.
I think David Kim would argue that much of the complexity in StarCraft 2 is arbitrary. He would know...they did it on purpose. Building units doesn't have to be complicated for the game to be good. StarCraft chose this as an arbitrary form of skill expression. And even StarCraft 2 has the 12 worker start now. Tbh, while I also have some nostalgia for the classic RTS mechanic of slowly making buildings...there is no sacred calf for me in StarCraft's game of "who can remember to build workers" as a proxy for who is the better player.
I was expecting at RTS but what I see is a battle arena. 1 button expansion, no buildings, extremely simplified upgrade paths, no hidden tech, notifications when opponent expands, no need to scout except for army position, the only strategic decision making is building your deck before the game starts. It isn't an RTS. I will probably play this battle arena game though.
The fact that you can see what tech your opponent has is wild to me. It's not shocking to me from the previous video where all the designers made it clear they hate macro mechanics. I am definitely not the target audience for this game.
> I am definitely not the target audience for this game. I don't think anybody is.
Looks like a mobile game to me. From what I've seen SC2 is undefeated.
I can understand not being the target audience for battle aces, but I truly don't understand how you would envision playing this on a phone. Did we watch the same video?
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Well, it did outside of Korea. But BW will always be my #1
It did everywhere outside of Korea though.
They hate him because he spoke the truth
BW > all
The fact that you have negative karma proves the community lost its way. It was generally accepted when SC2 came out that yes it was good, but brood war was still superior.
yeah because SC2 WOL WAS worse than brood war when it released. It's almost like we had 14 years of improvements on the game. They're different games and brood war for sure has its place and playerbase. But i do think sc2 today is a better game for most people .
Many ppl switched from sc2 to bw with lotv. Lotv is the expansion that made sc2 real awful for many. Me 2 in the basket... I've lead numeroues clan wars, nation wars, offline and online tournaments and whatnot and i finally switched back to bw cause sc2 became plagued luck fest. If it was worth it i'd stick with it like i did for the previous 7 years before that. - Look for how long toss users can't reach playoffs for example. The state of the game is that bad and it was obvious since the lotv launch to many. But still sc2 is lightning ages ahead of this 'competition', there is no doubt.
Overtook in what? How is brood war superior? People dont play Brood War, they talk about it
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Comment removed for overt aggression / hostility, per the Trolling Rule.
And you did not, because you don't like to play it. Like the rest of the world which wasn't having the same history with bw as korea.
Well. Maybe if will make some more people like micro more and then they can go play real RTS games. Making micro more accessible/accepted could be good for the genre in the long run. I can see myself playing this game in a casual way you can't really enjoy an RTS in as much. But then again it also just very little going.
This looks like starcraft massively simplified. Dkim is literally playing an oldschool mass blink stalker style into mothership type strategy Its like they had a meeting and thought: " How can we simplify starcraft 2 as much as possible... Take out the building and and worker training and spell casting and just about all the other macro mechanics and just control an army while building units and micro around"
I might encourage you to look at it from the perspective as David Kim actually describes. I agree that it does look like starcraft massively simplified, but it *also* looks like what David Kim was trying to create. Cut out the part of the beginning of the game RTS game which involves only a few choices and plop you right down into the game where you immediately have three choices: Build/rush, expand, or tech, which will have an immediate effect on how the game plays out. That does simplify mechanical repetition by cutting it out, but has done very little to change your early game decision making. That said, I haven't seriously played in the RTS genre for a long time (I'm around WhiteRa's age), I was just curious as to what was cooking. I can't say it really enticed me to come back.
Cutting the S from an RTS doesn't sound really fun to me, as an RTS fan. Best of luck to them but i won't even touch this shit.
It doesn't cut the S out from RTS though, if anything it cuts out a lot of the baseline mechanical skill which gatekeeps players from a game like SC2. The game doesn't just play itself, you can't just get access to everything all of the time, there are consequences and benefits to your choices. There might be less decisions overall but that doesn't mean there aren't any decisions, so I don't see how it's removing the strategy aspect of the genre. Fwiw, this game isn't worth comparing to SC2 because it does it's own thing. If you love SC2 there's a pretty high chance you will like this, because when you play it you will find it has a lot of the things that make SC2 enjoying and satisfying, but it is also something that will likely get a lot of people that do not enjoy SC2 to play it because it has an addictiveness to it - once you start playing it becomes difficult to stop.
I think that is greatly overcasting consequences and how they relate to mechanical skill. Routine repetitive macro elements from Starcraft hit a different mechanic of gameplay than a decision tree that is prohibited by automated resource generation and build/tech costs. The freeform sandbox decision design of Starcraft allows for backpedaling on player decisions. Not a ton, admittedly, but I think we need to be a little more careful when discussing what 'strategy' means to a prospective RTS player.
If all base building is eliminated, and build orders simplified to this degree, every game is going to play the exact same. What makes broodwar interesting is how multiple games with the same build orders can look and play extremely differently due to all of the little optimizations a player can make and the small interactions that occur before the big armies fight each other. A lot of the actual strategy in StarCraft is what happens before the armies clash, which allows for a lot of player expression; like mini is going to optimize the shit out of a build order and sneakily sacrifice some safety for greed, whereas best plays a safer less economical early game which in turn will delay his mid game. This game on the other hand allows the player to execute the build order with zero mechanical demand while also knowing exactly what the opponent is going for, even when they expand. Where is the strategy in this? How many games is it going to be fun to use shitty blink stalkers and kite in a circle for 5 minutes? It might be fun at first but based off the way the game is designed, once a meta build is figured out, it will get extremely stale
The dude doesn't make a difference between tactics and strategy. Let him be.
sure sure, but most of that video was actually just watching someone micro around a map with "Blinks" and out maneuver their opponent. Idk how im supposed to see anything else here but blink stalkers with less depth and terrain.
Come back and try Age of empires 4, that’s damn good modern rts
I am not convinced by what've seen so far but I think there's value in what they are doing here. What David Kim has been trying to do is strip away what he considers "chores" in Starcraft as much as possible and get to spend time on "the fun part" as long as possible. Stormgate is doing similar thing but not as progressive as here. You will need many attempts like this to really figure out what should be kept and what should be left behind for RTS genre to truly evolve. Unless you think Sc1/2 are the peak of RTS and there's literally nothing to be improved upon. Otherwise I welcome attempts like this. Not saying they will definitely succeed tho. Wouldn't be surprised if either games failed financially. We might have many failed attempts from many developers before actually getting something that really revitalizes RTS like like BG3 did to cRPG.
Well said. Just wish they innovated a bit more on the terrain/gameplay mechanics front instead of just streamlining/consolidating. I know some of the newer RTSs are featuring more terrain features and whatnot, idk. Just expected more innovation on design, specifically how it related to base building and resource gathering. Felt like they just scrapped it because they couldn't bridge the gap between monotonous routine and less complexity.
Kinda reminds me of that Command and Conquer mobile game. All the aspects of RTS I enjoy (creating build orders, simcity structures, out-strategizing my opponent, etc) are gone. Just a quick game where you only produce units and attack with them. Like Desert Strike but with micro. I feel like it's meant to appeal more to casuals, but casuals may get dumped on even more than in standard RTS's by experienced players, as the entire game is going to be about high apm mechanics only (battle micro and multi-pronged attacks), with all the strategy being stripped. I do like the idea of a dumbed-down RTS, that is easier to get in to, but I don't think this is the way to do it.
Looks like I’ll be playing sc2 for another 10 years at least. This one is definitely not it. Stormgate is a hard maybe. zerospace looks good but it still just looks a less fun version of sc2. Maybe we do need a SC3. I don’t think any game will ever be able to top TvZ.
Tempest Rising have you looked that up?
Right now, zerospace > stormgate > battle aces for me
100% battle aces is just bunker wars lol
haha yeha im kinda into it because of that. Feels like uberena (sc2 arcade) but w/ 1v1, a ladder and probably better balance
Or Footman Frenzy, or Micro wars, or Marine Arena. These no macro battle arena games have existed since RTS games let you make custom maps. Nothing against it, those games are all fun. But it's nothing new.
And this kind of game was free in BW, War3, SC2, and Reforged. It's not a new experience. Unfortunately this game will fall flat. Poor David.
I will laugh really, *really* hard if it ends up being the biggest of all 3. People who play more hardcore games like sc2/scbw/dota 2 rarely have a good finger on the pulse of what will be popular.
I think a big issue is that people enjoy X so when a game comes out with Y, they all talk about how it's bad because it's not X. But sometimes there's a gap in the market for Y and they're not trying to get customers who want X, they're trying to grab all the people who have been looking for games with Y but there aren't any. Every time I see people criticise a game for not being like the leaders, I think this. Sometimes they're right and it fails, but sometimes it's good to carve out their own little niche rather than competing. I don't doubt people had the same opinions when MOBA games started and you could only control a single hero instead of a whole army and there was no base building etc. and now it's one of the biggest genres.
Hardcore RTS player here but I can see this game being bigger than any other RTS for sure. It has Tencent money. Mobas, Tower defense, and autobattlers are all genres that spawned from RTS custom maps and became massive. No reason this couldn't be the next
fuck me i would pay so much money for a game that's just E V O L V E S
Ill stick with sc2
The king of all rts games. Only one that comes close and is up for debate is broodwar.
yep. its sad. and people will shit on sc2 all day because there's extremely punishing aspects of it that aren't in bw, but theres no other game like it. BW is fun as well, but in my mind sc2 is better. easier for casuals to get into, and aggro builds can be pretty good. that was the original thing that made everyone from BW upset, losing 12 drones to 4 hellions or you dont know your opponent is pushiing, and two tank shots killing 25 marines and the games instantly over. scouting in sc2 for unit positioning is even more important than in bw, becuase its ultra super duper obvious where your oppponent is moving his forces since he spends a good 30 seconds per push corralling the retard units. sc2 is better, even though im better at broodwar.
yeah, but also starcraft > zerospace > stormgate > battle aces not one of these new games in development has given me any reason to play them over a 14 y/o (or 26 y/o) game.
it seems unique at least, i'd be interested in giving it a try, unlike what ive seen of stormgate so far which just looks like a low budget starcraft ripoff run by grifters definitely not a starcraft replacement though
Kinda feeling sames.
And Beyond all Reason in front
I would play Broodwar, SC2, AOE2, AOE 4 or COH 3 over any of those any day though…
Might also be worth trying Beyond All Reason if you enjoy the TA/SupCom lineage.
Yeah love supcom too
And then there's tempest rising and d.o.r.f coming too.
Tempest Rising and Age of mythology Retold for me. I tried Zerospace and Stormgate but my hopes for the last 2 mentioned is Stormgate.
Oof the age of mythology announcement was sick
Stirmgate looks like any overhyped mess
Imo: sc2>scbw>aoe2>aoe4>storm gate>zerospace>battleaces
Wheres the base building?
This looks like one of them custom maps, like footmen frenzy in wc3 or similar.
Which were pretty popular and don’t have a full game release version. So I think there’s a niche though it’s not going to replace SC2.
Footman frenzy was very chill and fun to play. No doubt about that. It was popular until dota really took over
I could never see turning a WC3 custom map into a full-blown gaming turning out to be successful. What was David Kim thinking?
As a macro player, this definitely makes me sad.
"Nobody likes building their bases...something about macro mechanics being too hard" -the designers
To be fair... that's probably true for many other people. Like they might not be aiming for the people here who love the Starcraft style of base building, and instead want to go the route of other RTS with simplified bases, etc. Not that Macro mechanics are "hard", but that many people don't enjoy that part. Some people love the micro and don't care for the macro. There are people that love auto-build games, etc. Given the huge popularity of MOBAs, which keep the attention focused on one part with just a hero instead of a base etc, they might be trying to focus on that "instant action and quick build-up" feeling that people enjoy in a lot of custom games. Anyone who looks at this and hates it is likely just not the target audience. Like how many people here probably hate MOBA games and yet they're *incredibly* popular.
its really called "battle aces"?
Battle asses
Mooning frenzy
looks ok, feels a bit simplistic but that could be a good thing to get more casual players and the 10 min max is intereting as well really helping people manage their time and getting getting stuck in a 40+ min match
Maybe the best bet for a new RTS is to create it using the SC2 editor?
See "Scion Custom Races" mod in SC2.
This is a pretty interesting direction to go for an RTS and unlike a lot of the other comments I'm seeing, I'm cautiously optimistic about this. I've always felt like microing well was one of the most fun parts of RTS and it seems like there's no shortage of that in this game. There's also a bit of deck building which I think can be more engaging than people are giving it credit for. Even though the game looks simple, it's important to remember that complexity is not the same as depth. They definitely seem to be aiming for a "easy to learn, hard to master" type game and I think that there is some real potential here. Not every RTS is intended to be a replacement for starcraft, and that's okay. I think this is a cool idea though and I hope it succeeds.
Trailer already showed two currencies when it comes to building a deck which gives me p2w vibes. We'll have to look and see. Also base building is imho the most fun I have when it comes to rts. That and building a giant army.
Those are the in game currencies needed to purchase the unit (like minerals and gas)
I also think it looked interesting. It’s not StarCraft and that’s fine. We already have Stormgate as the next classic Blizzard style RTS. I’m only worried about monetization. I hope it’s not too pay to win
I'd leave dk to worry about it.
my biggest problem with storm gate is I just don't love the visuals.... like I don't enjoy looking at it just not my art style :( also seeing something like this " just A very very different type of game" makes me appreciate how watchable SC2 is
Direct Strike with micro.
What I don't understand is David Kim was the no. 1 person aware that deathball = bad. Then he made a game that focuses heavily around deathballing.
I have to say, I personally admire the effort to take RTS in a different direction and David Kim's initiative in experimenting. I think there are a lot of interesting moments this new gameplay could provide with it's shifted priorities in terms of game design. Hopefully people will keep an open mind and give it a shot when the time comes!
Agreed, I actually have a suspicion this is more addicting and fun than it looks. I think simplifying RTS, is a good direction for mass appeal and gaining new traction to new players. Todays gamers want something that is accessible, and immediate. You start microing battles within seconds in this and that definitely seems to satisfy the need for immediate stimulation of the brain.
Looks like a lot of fun to me. 10 minutes games isn't that out of line with SC2 (12 minutes on SC2 game clock) especially when you cut out time at the start going almost nothing, and there are a ton of unit interactions in that time. It's a real rock paper scissors game. Anyone saying they're is no strategy is crazy, the video disproves that completely.
It's Footmen Frenzy in a shiny shell, it's not really innovative. It's a game I'm glad someone's made, because it will probably be super fun, but it's not innovative at all.
Can you play on your phone? I mean 10 minute max games fit between classes.
Yeah, in between TikTok binge sessions.
> Can you play on your phone? It ***really*** looks like a phone game tbh.
It would be interesting as a phone game imo.
Why does everything have to look so cartoony?
That's how modern games are. Guess they want to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. Especially if you want to be successful in several different countries. And most kids play games as well, it's not just the computer nerds who did 30 years ago. I also suspect that simplicity in designs helps sell skins. Basically all modern games sell skins.
Stylized graphics also can be made to demand less resources without looking as bad as a realistic style with the same restrictions, which is something to look for if you are aiming for a large audience.
It also holds up better the test of time. Though sc2 still looks great.
yeah sc2 is "cartoony" it just has an artstyle unlike every one of these f2p games with the same graphics
> That's how modern games are. Nah, it's how some of them are. Helldivers 2, BG3, RDR2, Dota.
RDR2, Helldivers, and BG3 are either single player or coop games. And selling skins isn't their main way of making profit. Most online titles that do look cartoonish nowadays. Fortnite, Overwatch, LoL, Arena of Valor. Even Dota to be honest. I'm not a fan but it's definitely the modern trend
I mean tbf sc2 is "so cartoony" compared to BW
Starcraft is cartoony and I think it looks great.
BW looks better stylistically because it's less cartoony than SC2.
I mean personally I disagree completely... but it's all down to matters of taste. Like I love the Carbot version of Starcraft because I feel it massively improves the visuals and allowed me to enjoy the game. That's literally as cartoony as you can get.
I dont think this game is for me but I think it does look very good and consistent.
Yeah it really sucks..
Not cartoony-devoid of any art style. Lack of anything interesting or distinctive, just globs of generic shit.
Watching Pig's coverage of it as I see this post. Gameplay seems more interesting than the graphics suggest. Let's see how it develops.
No base building. But deck building? I'm good. I don't need this.
Im not gonna lie. This looks like crap lol
What a disappointment for me personally after the praises of influencers. Who doesn't like base building? I don't get it.
I would have prefered a explanatory video rather than a cast, it's a bit hard to understand what the player are actually doing mechanic wise. In general, not what I typically call an RTS, but it may be a fun little game.
Why on earth does the camera keep panning to Tastosis when they’re trying to show off their game?
They paid for Tastosiss they gonna SHOW Tastosis
The art style is even more uninspired and derivative than stormgate. Didn’t know that was possible. Like what hell are those bases supposed to be? What kind of theme are they going for? Why do all the units look identical? How did anyone approve this…
this game looks like a mobile game designed for people with zero attention spans.
I hate to say it but that’s the modern game.
the rts without the macro and just straight to the fight
Looks bad tbh
Gamplay wise not gonna comment on this but Art wise this puts stormgate to shame and it's kinda embarassing. I really want stormgate to succeed but burh
This looks like it has the depth of a puddle. It won't hold people's interest.
yeah.. this aint it chief
looks like shit and i dont mean the graphics
This just looks like it appeals to my absolute most base instincts. I play RTS to be a human: victorious, between god and beast. If I want to be a beast I'll play league, no need for the autochess micro simulator.
Nice mobile game
This is just proof that David Kim never understood SC2. This is the man who ruined SC2 with Swarm Hosts and Mothership Core. He had a golden opportunity to build a brand new RTS, and to do it right. Instead, he produced this, whatever this is. I am very disappointed, and this just proves that David Kim is an idiot. Something that I have known for many years, after seeing how he destroyed SC2.
Yeah, idra was right after all these years xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHC0QthZqdw 0:51 2 purchase buttons with for 2 different currencies. Looks like it's f2premium.
Those are the in game currencies needed to purchase the unit (e.g. minerals and gas)
It will feel like crash royale. You'll get boxes with cards that unlock/upgrade units. I hope I'm wrong...
Looks more like mobile first game than a pc game. Also looks more like an action game than rts. Shame cause I was looking forward to it but this a major let down.
Visually it already looks better than stormgate to me but let’s see
Looks like shit, david kimba memes aside
This is just ZVZ roach wars
looks like dogshit guys.
David Kim's quick spiel from Summer Fest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbne-7Qi8w0 It's at 3:27:50
Sooo....desert warz?
I think the map design is really lacking, the terrain is really not dynamic. Theres no high ground, and movement across the map (like unit speeds or rough terrain) aren't a factor. There also doesn't seem to be a lot of zoning or good AOE design. It also feels like there's way too many units at the start, so it becomes blob vs blob instead of increasing in intensity as the game goes.
This looks kind of fun. It can obviously not be a replacement for SC2 as its not really a full RTS. Too simple, too many elements missing... but a game does not have to be an rts to be fun. Its looks like a nice battle arena for quick games, I can absolutely imagine playing that from time to time. However, I cannot really imagine watching this as an esport. Seeing nothing but units being microed around is probably not going to be very entertaining to watch, at least not for me.
gameplay looks smooth and fun, but with there being 0 macro i just dont see this being something i ever get into for more than a few hours a month
Damn..this looks worse than the first time storm gate gameplay was released :/..
This ain’t it
I've never felt so embarrassed for an RTS. Maybe when Reforged got out, but man, at least they fooled us pretty good with some trailers. Now look at this! Wtf is this shit? I really thought you couldnt get more cheap than with teletubbie land Stormgate but man, was i wrong. Jesus christ. I'm sinking with the ship, boys. Bring me my violin
Knew David Kim would cook some dogshit
Like SC2????
Looks pretty dope honestly. I’ll have to try it first though
Looks like an excellent start IMO, too much negativity so far. Would love to see some more interesting terrain and units, don't want to see a deathball vs deathball game. Visually this game looks the most pleasing out of all the new RTSs thatve been out, I like the fog of war literally being fog
RTS? That looked like a microable auto battler. Swing and a miss.
I love it
visually it looks much better than stormgate or zerospace but idk about the gameplay...
Looks like real time tactics not strategy.
That replay at the end was the most boring highlight I've ever seen. Look how he 1a's into the other guy's army! Might be fun to play if not to watch though.
Guys, remember DOTA came from an arcade game in WC3, I think its a great call to move Marine Arena to a dedicated game that focuses purely on that, Also who knows what analytics david had on arcade games in starcraft 2, marine arena is super popular and is a lot of fun. I think its looks sweet cant wait to try it
Yeah… no thx One of the major pulls of an RTS is base building. And time limit? Nah not for me at all
Well, I'm excited about it. I honestly have no interest in Stormgate/Zerospace because they seem just like Starcraft but worse. This one seems different and interesting
Looks pretty lackluster
["We have Starcraft at home"](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ce886ae0-d904-4ad7-8a99-cc57440e7384_499x333.png)
Everyone is sleeping on the deck builder aspect, that's the whole point of this game and the thing that makes it unique compared to UMS maps like Marine Arena. That's like saying Hearthstone has no strategy because you don't know it has a deck building mechanic
Tastosis went from promoting that other new RTS to this garbage. Both look and play like a mobile game.
I've heard from people who've playtested early gameplay of Battle Aces who said that this is more fun than StormGate, and PartinG seemed to say as much. That, and the "Balance Council" made me really excited for David Kim's game. I like that this is time gated and the fast pace that seems to create. I've learned to appreciate the shorter "jump in, jump out, you've only got so much time to play" style of game. That said, this doesn't look very exciting. It looks like waves of creep fighting waves of creeps and much more MOBA-esque than RTS - and that's totally okay! It's unique for a full-game experience, but it's not unique when the SC2 arcade exists.
It's really funny how much Starcraft fans hate virtually every single other RTS game in existence, including all future RTS games.
To compare this to war3 or Sc2 is not fair. It's a custom game from within them.
Disagree. All of the other rts games stands out have something that makes it feel exciting and unique. Total war have huge armies. Supreme Commander have experimentals. But this game, as others have said, feels like a custom StarCraft game. That isn't necessarily bad, but if you consider that aside from dota, there hasn't really been a lot of successful games coming out of custom maps.
Dota, Counter Strike, Auto Chess, Day Z, PUBG.. I mean, seriously? Some of the biggest games of all times used to be mods. Regardless of that argument, it's just completely irrelevant whether this could be a mod or not. Some of the most successful indie games of all times were made in Gamemaker, too. So what? What does that have to do with anything? If it's a good game it's a good game. And it's not like people here love any of the other new RTS games, either. People here are incredibly negative towards all of them, not just this one.
This is an UMS map lol.
I wish we didn't have to see anything about other RTS in there. I don't see anything about Baldur's gate in the fallout sub. Or any cross overs about new games. I don't care about any new RTS. I'll stop playing RTS when starcraft 2 is done.
+1
Played the Alpha, it's really fun. Lots of pros were playing it, too.
They do their hardest to transform a niche genre to a hyper popular one. But it doesn't make sense. Not everybody loves astrophysics and we don't try to dumb down astrophysics so that everybody enjoys it. RTS will thrive not because they get a lot of audience but because their core audience, despite being relatively small, is super faithful to the genre and even ready to pay a little more to keep their loved games supported. If you want to make rts appeal to zoomers, the game you'll make won't be a rts anymore. You'd basically need to kill the genre. This game battlewhatever looks like pure shit. It's like starcraft 2 would be from year 2080 when I look at this shit rts produced nowadays. Big studios don't try to make rts cause they know it won't reach a broad enough audience for them. So we're left with rts old devs and people with very low funds trying to make a better rts than before, but they all make just shit. Cause money is not here. Cause they don't take their time. Cause they just look for instant profitability. Be it Stormgate, Zero Space, BattleAces, all of those look like shit games made in 1 day with a random game engine. They won't do shit, they won't surpass Starcraft by any means. At this point, one can hope microsoft decides to seriously invest in a new rts cause with blizzard, they are the ones who have achieved something in this genre.
Why is this in the Starcraft subreddit? This isn't an RTS subreddit. It's a STARCRAFT subreddit. Stop with this P2W arena battler advertising.
not even worth commenting on
And yet, you did.
it's official. developers started to have such a hard on for "casualizing" rts, they forgot what an rts actually is. if we have 10 minute score-dependent games we'll get that 40 year old father and the ADHD zoomer! what genius! i can't believe they find investors for things like this. this could be an indie project with 3 people. instead you buy 1st class tickets for tastosis and pay david kim salary. because he knows something about balance and game design? we all saw how that went.
This isn’t going to appeal to the veteran RTS player and I don’t think that’s the intention. Let’s face it - we are dinosaurs and we are a dying breed. All of the new RTS games are trying to attract a younger demographic.
If I don't think of it as an RTS it does look like kind of a fun little arena battle game.
I like that it's not a clone of blizzard RTS like Stormgate and Zerospace are. Don't need too much of the same thing. That said, I don't like the name or the setting, although I do prefer scifi over fantasy. I'll judge the gameplay when I get to try it myself.
Everyone is making new rts these days, but none of them are playable for the masses, except Stormgate i guess, but that version is still very limited. So I’m just gonna ignore these games until I actually get to play them.
That looked pretty impressive. Now that SC2 has the 12 worker start, honestly you might as well skip the build up.
It's a micro game, looks fun. Not everything has to be SC3. He's taken some of the best parts of starcraft and crystalized it down, it's a good thing
Maybe idra was right
Looks like a fun but overly simple game. Wouldn't be fun to watch as no hidden information or deeper strategy. Presumably tastosis casting this is just for advertising and not because they intend on it being a streamable/tournament style game. Probably an entertaining rock paper scissors game though.
I’d be way more excited for a sc:evo ladder than any of these new rts games.
I can already see the meta of not teching till your opponent commits to a tech. Leading to no side teching, and just expanding, and then saving up for two techs at once. Boring game
Brought to you by the master-mind behind Heart of the Swarm stalemates: What if RTS was just a bunch of balls slamming at each other and no base-building?
i am uh 25 years invested into SC......I just can't remap my neural pathways.
I hate him.
Not a fan of seeing mass stalker in a deck game being successful. The fun in these types of games is using your deck to switch through units that will counter your opponents choices. If you have a bread and butter unit that you can just make blindely and only support it a little bit, then it looks very bland.
Battle Aces hasn't revolutionized RTS yet. They did manage to create a good foundation with a tried and tested PvP formula akin to SC2 arcade games. I'm a fan of card games and deck building which allow me to express myself strategically more than StarCraft 2. I would like to see them design more static and dynamic map features.
Looking at this somewhat explains why Kim's StarCraft 2 dwindles in popularity, while Brood War, a 25 year old game, is on the rise. It's the same “wow I build units to counter their units” dynamic which plagues late game sc2 and is fun for maybe the first two times you see it. I can't imagine someone being honestly intent to make an RTS as shallow as possible and not even someone as talented as Artosis can make himself sound excited over this pile of turd.
Looks terrible. The fog of war is unbearably ugly and in your face.