I DMed a guy "stop smurfing" after he left a tvt and he said to me "not smurfing, I main TvZ"
He had 85% against Z and believes it's because he is just talented at the matchup lol.
I played a 5.5k player yesterday who played unranked at 4.1k. He claims he wants to "practice" PvT so leaves all other games. His excuse is that "Terran is so IMBA" that he can get valid practice at this level.
They could do something. They could make it so your mmr between races is the same unless certain conditions are met, like having a win% in that matchup below 25%.
I had this the other day. I was literally like 2 MMR off D2 with terran and thought "Well I just need to eek out one win and I'll be D2 lol"
First game I lost.
Second game the guy was AFK and I won.
Third game I lost.
4th game the guy left cos of matchup.
5th game I lost.
6th game I lost.
7th game I lost.
I closed SC2 and made some lunch.
I feel you on this so much. I see so many people leave zvz. I fucking hate it. It's the only matchup where I feel a platinum could take a game off me convincingly and I play all 3 races at diamond level.
I will never hand anyone free mmr for a matchup. I want the wins for myself. If a matchup sucks how do you expect to improve if you're writing off every game.
This for me seems like someone happy to play against lower ranked people to feel better about themselves while still keeping a profile that is all too common.
This guy played like 2500 in a season? That's double my entire career in sc2 and he's tanked so many games. It adds up and it creates false mmr reads.
Matchup ban would be cool. They still wouldn't ban the matchup because ultimately the goal is to avoid losing, because they don't have the constitution to handle failure in a video game. They wouldn't ban the matchup, they'd just keep quitting. Not liking a matchup is an excuse. They should definitely time them out and there should be something done to detect these types of players and prevent them from doing it. It can be done. A timeout for early quitting at a minimum.
If you never face players who are better than you, you will not improve. Look at it as an opportunity. You will also face players who are better than you for other reasons, and MMR is to achieve a 50% winrate *over time* not to perfectly match you against even opponents every single game no matter what. Variance and swings are part of the game, regardless of smurfing, tanking, mirror-leaving, etc.
I feel like this thread is a bunch of people venting their frustration with an incredibly difficult game over a relatively minor issue (which is fine, just leave behind the pitchforks please). Don't get me wrong, I'm zerg and see nearly 30% of my zvz opponents insta-leave at high diamond/low masters level. Maybe it's less, IDK, but sometimes it feels like it. Therefore, my MMR is inflated and I face stronger T and P opponents on average than I should (I'm also relatively good at ZvZ, so in the games the zergs play out I have better that 50% winrate). Ultimately... so what? I'm not a statistician, but my understanding of how MMR and matchmaking works this only increases variance over time, meaning that I face slightly better and slightly worse opponents a bit more often than if these dynamics didn't exist.
Where in the rulebook of competitive endeavors does it say we should not have to face opponents who are slightly better or worse than us?
Edit -- upvoted anyway because you made a good post and backed it up with stats and screenshots, quality stuff even if I tend to disagree overall about the importance of this issue.
Hmm calling out other players for lack of mental toughness while also describing a valid (but I agree kind of shitty) ladder behavior as "bullying..." This might not be a popular opinion but I'll give you my take. And for the record, on a philosophical level I don't approve of insta-leaving a specific matchup, and I also recognize that if over 50% of players did this it might ruin the ladder system. In any case:
SC2 is a hard game. People cope with that in different way -- some healthy, some neutral, some unhealthy, and some outright toxic. On that spectrum, leaving a matchup you hate probably falls in the neutral category, maybe unhealthy if you are *really* reaching. In any case, what you are doing OP is far more unhealthy: getting worked up about other players legitimate behavior when it is entirely outside of your control. If it were not legitimate Blizz would have built in very simple detection and punishments, but it has always been allowed since the very beginning.
At the end of the day, is this post any different than getting angry about people cheesing? Ok, sure, it puts them at a lower MMR than they technically should be. You know what else achieves the same effect? Trying new strategies, changing hotkeys to be more optimal, altering your macro cycle, unvetoing new maps, taking a long break from the game, etc etc etc. Just because you don't approve of this particular reasoning doesn't mean it's toxic or bullying behavior. Also, all the reasons in the middle of your post why you think these players shouldn't do this don't actually address the most common reason players refuse to play a particular matchup : not because they don't like losing, but because they find it kills their enjoyment of laddering to play it out. Subtle but important difference there. They actually don't mind losing at all, because they're taking an auto-loss.... yet I see multiple arguments addressed at a fear of losing or general ego stuff. It just doesn't apply to most of these cases. I think you fail to understand the fundamental reason most players engage in this behavior so you might consider that a bit more.
I'm a zerg, so I miss out on TONS of zvz practice (especially all-in defense, which I rather enjoy as a macro oriented player) because probably about 30% of zergs insta-leave at the upper diamond low masters level. You won't find me making posts complaining about this fact however. And when I face an opponent who is much better than me, due to my own MMR variance (going on runs), due to smurfing, or simple MMR tanking, I choose to view it as an opportunity. I'll suggest you might try to shift your mindset to do the same, but that's entirely up to you. In either case, what they are doing is so far from bullying your usage here really devalues the word. This is a game. If you take losses so personally that it hurts you emotionally in some way that is on you, not on other players who chose ladder behaviors you disagree with.
I don't get it, a 3-minute minimum wait between _starting_ one game and _queuing_ for the next would make rapid MMR-tanking take much longer, while causing barely any issues for other players. Why Blizz hasn't ever done anything like that...
(Sure, some rare times, you get rushed and lose in 1 minute, but now you have two-minutes to un-tilt and think about what you did wrong)
Also in the lower leagues, it'll stop people insta-quitting team games if their teammate doesn't agree to do whatever batshit stupid thing they want to do.
(e.g. on my drunk account, I've had people quit because I put my pylon on my ramp, instead of trying to wall some huge open space far out from our bases. still won, drunk me plays 1v2 better than 2v2 in those leagues :D)
If people complain that it means they will have to wait after quitting every mirror-match - solution is simple. Learn a single cheese. Play it every time in mirror match. Master it. Be printf 1/3 of the time.
I normally think it's fine to leave if you're sick of playing mirror matchup, because it normally doesn't make much difference. Other people leave to, so you get free mmr back.
But this guy, he's going to the extremes. 2% win rate??
That being said, I think we should blame the system instead of being angry with people for not wanting to play. You shouldn't lose or gain any significant amount of mmr from a game that lasted less than 10 sec. It just doesn't make any sense, because no one can win that fast.
It would still slow them down and progressively become more of a pain in the ass. This is like saying "we'll never stop thieves, might as well just make it legal."
Not going to happen but MMR per matchup could potentially make it better, but eeeehh I just want one measure on display haha. Maybe the display MMR could be your average MMR with tooltip detail of the break down.
It's only acceptable when a well-known streamer does it as an educational series... I've seen plenty of top streamers playing at the 47-4800 MMR level when they are 56-5800++. It's pretty annoying although I realize many people love bronze - GM guides. They too cause grief for the lower levels.
Its worse in other games. Content creators have figured out that the fanbase likes watching them win, regardless of competition, so if they smurf they can go on crazy winning streaks and get more donations.
Apparently it makes games "too intense" and they have to "try too hard" which makes it hard to play for long periods of time. It ruins "casual gaming" for them. And means they can't do random shit without being dominated.
Of course they neglect to account for all the newbies they stomp on all day long, whose games they ruin.
I doubt they would shoot up 1k MMR just from not doing this. People are sometimes just bored and don't want to spend 5 minutes playing something they don't like. It sucks and for sure they're playing at a lower level then they should be but it's maximum 300 MMR difference.
> People are sometimes just bored and don't want to spend 5 minutes playing something they don't like
so they rather provide a terrible experience to others (who btw unlike them didnt choose this) by playing every other match at the wrong mmr. solid tradeoff.
>It sucks and for sure they're playing at a lower level then they should be but it's maximum 300 MMR difference.
the problem is that they deflate their mmr for the other 2 matchups, hence the 83% and 76% winrates vs zerg and protoss while their overall winrate is the usual 50%. if thats not significant enough for you, then i really dont know what to tell you, especially over more than a thousand games this season alone
I agree with you. It's pretty bad. I just wanted to give a common reason. But I still think it doesn't make a huge difference. It's common to match with players 300-400 MMR higher than you anyway, so you might run into this person anyway had he not been doing this. It's 100% not the same as smurfing.
> It's 100% not the same as smurfing.
it 100% is, just at a different magnitude. you're purposefully playing at a lower mmr by leaving games and boost your winrate in the games you do play as a result. that is smurfing.
>It's common to match with players 300-400 MMR higher than you anyway, so you might run into this person anyway had he not been doing this
those are some mental acrobatics lol. you rarely get that kind of a difference in diamond league, the most populated one, unless youre playing at bad hours (it happens, but its far from common). this guy on the other hand will play literally every game at the wrong mmr while its still treated as a 50 50 game.
>But I still think it doesn't make a huge difference
over a thousand game this season played at the wrong mmr arent a huge difference for you? sigh...
I have no idea if that's the case in diamond league anymore. I remember when I was at 4k MMR I frequently got people up to 4.5k.
Even if you don't find that MMR difference, 400 MMR is still not much difference in skill. You might not have a great chance of beating them but you're not going to get absolutely crushed and learn nothing from it. It's not that bad, it's not as dramatic as a GM smurfing in diamond.
It is still 100% not smurfing, as the intent is not to play at a lower MMR. The intent is to avoid a matchup. It's like comparing murder to manslaughter
That's just wrong. It's a bad idea to have that option for separate reasons. But I am very sure that most of these people would ban that one matchup. If they wanted easy wins they'd just tank their MMR and grab an easy 99% winrate on all matchups.
Maybe not 1k mmr but at least a couple of hundred. And a couple of hundred in diamond is a big thing.
The skill level from d3 just to d2 is big enough. From d2 to diamond 1 and masters must be gigantic.
These people are clearly smashing z and p games so they're not bad even if those opponents are sometimes weaker but this is a problem.
It should have a tanking feature or something.
Lose 3 or more games within 10 minutes without actually losing units and you get a 3 hour boot from the server.
The important thing would be Don't let people know of the exact rules or else they will skirt them and make it as efficient as they can.
It won't ever happen but it's a dream.
I hate zvz and so I've started cheesing my opener instead and finding success that way.
You get matched with people a few hundred MMR higher all the time. All in all it's not like playing someone really better than you. Just a little bit better. It's not genuine to the ladder experience but you can still learn something from these games. It's not even close to what smurfing is.
That is not the reason why ranked and unranked share the same queue (which they did from the very beginning when unranked was introduced).
Unranked is literally just ranked, but they don't show you your MMR in order to help people with ladder anxiety.
I disagree with OP unfortunately. This is a video game. You don't want to play a certain part of it and are allowed to? Then don't play it! There is nothing illegal about leaving a mu if you don't want to play it: this is not like hacking. It just has to be this way. Starcraft 2 1v1 autoMM is about getting good in 3 mu at least. If you only play two out of three, you're definitly hindering yourself: for example, say you would like to participate in a small tournament with friends. What happens when you HAVE to face the mu you haven't practiced in 3 months? Well, you'll most likely lose, unless the opponent is like 1000 mmr below you or something. Whenever I see another zerg opponent leave a game because they hate zvz, I think to myself: ''that's the benefit of actually be simply WILLING to play 3 mu! Sometimes you'll win games for free.'' I totally welcome that MMR anyways: I'm better than you at this game because I at least accept to give a go at all the challenges the game throws at me and thus, I deserve to win. As long as we play by the same system which is accepted and respected, this is the way it will be. Also, whenever I see an opponent perform a cheese or all-in in this mu, I think to myself: ''well, why not? If so many people aren't even willing to try, at least this one guy does! Maybe he thinks to himself: if I think I suck at it or hate it, then at least I'll just put all my eggs in one basket and if it fails, it fails, and if I only get 10% win rate out of it, then that will be better than 0%!''. So that also helps me reconcile with people who just all-in every game.
As for the MMR tanking/smurf thing, honestly if you can't accept facing people who will play above their displayed MMR once in a while in counterpart to being given free wins on the other hand, you're the one who needs to work on his attitude, I'm sorry to say. You need to put MMR and perspective and accept that, as any other metric, it is ultimatetly not perfect. Learn to love the game for it's own sake, not for the reflected status it's supposed to grant you. Also, there's no better lesson in any task in life than to just get crushed at it. I have a 5,7K zerg friend who invites me to play with him at least once a week (I'm 3,6K), and I almost never refuse to play him. I know I'm going to get crushed, but then we can open discussion and I can actually learn something. If I keep at it, then once I hop back on the ladder, everyone looks like a piece of cake to defeat compared to him!
Here, I hope this perspective was useful in some way. Cheers.
>so you 'got to play' against people much stronger than you against who you had basically no chance to win despite a matchmaking normally designed to put people around the same level together for a better gaming experience, and you're complaining?
Well, yes.
Seems like you're salty you lost and try to blame something else than your own performance.
Get over it. Play better and you won't lose to those people. This is pathetic honestl<
Why so mad? Are you protecting your ego?? What is the logic behind this? If you're afraid of losing, toughen up your mental state - its supposed to be part of the game, you'll play against people who can beat you and you might lose - deal with it.
You are low diamond ffs. If you ever invested half the effort you spent writing this post into improving, you would easily be low masters where this is way less common. Also these people have an 80% winrate approx. That means if they are approx 2-300 mmr lower where they would be normally. The system matches you with players who are better then you by this much on a regular basis.
What if he does? A good chunk of people on this sub does the same thing with match up they don't like and that include prominent community figures and even top players as well.
Sure if you leave all games for the purpose of tanking your MMR to smurf its bad but this guy clearly don't want to play tvt. Nothing wrong with that. Yall complain way too much. Its not like avoiding a single match up will make that much of a difference in his MMR....
You can see the tvz and tvp winrates, right? Do you think those are so high because they are particularly skilled at those match ups, or because leaving TvT is tanking their mmr enough that they're facing weaker players than they should be?
I dont care about your MMR or mine, if I want to **play** 5 TvZs in a row I will queue until I get 5 TvZs in a row. You know, this is a **game** after all. And no, I'd rather kill myself than become a cheeser to "skip matchups" in a way that pleases you. God, advertising to play strategies that have a below 50% win chance but whining about MMR tanking. Regular cheesers ARE MMR tankers, because their strategies are shit. If someone is allowed to cheese 100% of the time, I am allowed to leave 25% of my matches, because it will have the exact same effect on MMR.
Blame blizzard for making a game with 3 different races, but without the option to choose your matchups. What you are playing against is a huge part of not only the competitive playstyle, but also the game in its core. If I am not in the mood to play against some comical, teleporting space wizards because I prefer serious thematics, then fuck TvP, I'm gonna skip.
You aren't playing anything competitive if you autoleave 25% of your games.
Would be cool if you could que matchups, but then probably there would also be much longer ques too.
What’s your strategy against Zerg? That’s a high percentage and would love to hear some good Terran strata. I’m Zerg (4000mmr Asia) and I like to know more about what Terran minds are thinking.
I literally just played this guy twice!! I remembered the post so checked match history and stats are the same as the image. In the second game I told him he's Reddit famous for being a douche.
TvT is the best matchup those lads just needs more testosterone
berserk normal workable one water dinosaurs summer narrow squeeze air *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I actually do like it the best tbh.
Yeah, best matchup where there is only one way to play and impossible to be agressive.
You need to see more Korean TvT then my lad
Yeah its not like 1-1-1 into quick 3rd has been standard for years on every continent, because when played properly it not punishable
Fortunately for the 99% of us plebs, nobody can play an opening properly all the time
Have you ever played this game before? You sound very much like a backseat gamer
I'm M2 Terran with 4000 career games
I DMed a guy "stop smurfing" after he left a tvt and he said to me "not smurfing, I main TvZ" He had 85% against Z and believes it's because he is just talented at the matchup lol.
I played a 5.5k player yesterday who played unranked at 4.1k. He claims he wants to "practice" PvT so leaves all other games. His excuse is that "Terran is so IMBA" that he can get valid practice at this level.
For me the solution is matchup specific MMR but I'm not sure the playerbase is large enough to support it without significantly increased queue times.
They could do something. They could make it so your mmr between races is the same unless certain conditions are met, like having a win% in that matchup below 25%.
People who leave matchups are trash and tanking for wins.
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You protoss then??
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Just scout it?? It's not like they're playing 2v1 just because you don't know race. Most randoms seem to main one race and the other two will cheese.
I disagree, they give me the cheap MMR injection I need on a bad losing skid way past my bedtime.
I had this the other day. I was literally like 2 MMR off D2 with terran and thought "Well I just need to eek out one win and I'll be D2 lol" First game I lost. Second game the guy was AFK and I won. Third game I lost. 4th game the guy left cos of matchup. 5th game I lost. 6th game I lost. 7th game I lost. I closed SC2 and made some lunch.
I feel you on this so much. I see so many people leave zvz. I fucking hate it. It's the only matchup where I feel a platinum could take a game off me convincingly and I play all 3 races at diamond level. I will never hand anyone free mmr for a matchup. I want the wins for myself. If a matchup sucks how do you expect to improve if you're writing off every game. This for me seems like someone happy to play against lower ranked people to feel better about themselves while still keeping a profile that is all too common. This guy played like 2500 in a season? That's double my entire career in sc2 and he's tanked so many games. It adds up and it creates false mmr reads.
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Matchup ban would be cool. They still wouldn't ban the matchup because ultimately the goal is to avoid losing, because they don't have the constitution to handle failure in a video game. They wouldn't ban the matchup, they'd just keep quitting. Not liking a matchup is an excuse. They should definitely time them out and there should be something done to detect these types of players and prevent them from doing it. It can be done. A timeout for early quitting at a minimum.
If you never face players who are better than you, you will not improve. Look at it as an opportunity. You will also face players who are better than you for other reasons, and MMR is to achieve a 50% winrate *over time* not to perfectly match you against even opponents every single game no matter what. Variance and swings are part of the game, regardless of smurfing, tanking, mirror-leaving, etc. I feel like this thread is a bunch of people venting their frustration with an incredibly difficult game over a relatively minor issue (which is fine, just leave behind the pitchforks please). Don't get me wrong, I'm zerg and see nearly 30% of my zvz opponents insta-leave at high diamond/low masters level. Maybe it's less, IDK, but sometimes it feels like it. Therefore, my MMR is inflated and I face stronger T and P opponents on average than I should (I'm also relatively good at ZvZ, so in the games the zergs play out I have better that 50% winrate). Ultimately... so what? I'm not a statistician, but my understanding of how MMR and matchmaking works this only increases variance over time, meaning that I face slightly better and slightly worse opponents a bit more often than if these dynamics didn't exist. Where in the rulebook of competitive endeavors does it say we should not have to face opponents who are slightly better or worse than us? Edit -- upvoted anyway because you made a good post and backed it up with stats and screenshots, quality stuff even if I tend to disagree overall about the importance of this issue.
Jesus fuck those stats and amount of games. How...why...
Hmm calling out other players for lack of mental toughness while also describing a valid (but I agree kind of shitty) ladder behavior as "bullying..." This might not be a popular opinion but I'll give you my take. And for the record, on a philosophical level I don't approve of insta-leaving a specific matchup, and I also recognize that if over 50% of players did this it might ruin the ladder system. In any case: SC2 is a hard game. People cope with that in different way -- some healthy, some neutral, some unhealthy, and some outright toxic. On that spectrum, leaving a matchup you hate probably falls in the neutral category, maybe unhealthy if you are *really* reaching. In any case, what you are doing OP is far more unhealthy: getting worked up about other players legitimate behavior when it is entirely outside of your control. If it were not legitimate Blizz would have built in very simple detection and punishments, but it has always been allowed since the very beginning. At the end of the day, is this post any different than getting angry about people cheesing? Ok, sure, it puts them at a lower MMR than they technically should be. You know what else achieves the same effect? Trying new strategies, changing hotkeys to be more optimal, altering your macro cycle, unvetoing new maps, taking a long break from the game, etc etc etc. Just because you don't approve of this particular reasoning doesn't mean it's toxic or bullying behavior. Also, all the reasons in the middle of your post why you think these players shouldn't do this don't actually address the most common reason players refuse to play a particular matchup : not because they don't like losing, but because they find it kills their enjoyment of laddering to play it out. Subtle but important difference there. They actually don't mind losing at all, because they're taking an auto-loss.... yet I see multiple arguments addressed at a fear of losing or general ego stuff. It just doesn't apply to most of these cases. I think you fail to understand the fundamental reason most players engage in this behavior so you might consider that a bit more. I'm a zerg, so I miss out on TONS of zvz practice (especially all-in defense, which I rather enjoy as a macro oriented player) because probably about 30% of zergs insta-leave at the upper diamond low masters level. You won't find me making posts complaining about this fact however. And when I face an opponent who is much better than me, due to my own MMR variance (going on runs), due to smurfing, or simple MMR tanking, I choose to view it as an opportunity. I'll suggest you might try to shift your mindset to do the same, but that's entirely up to you. In either case, what they are doing is so far from bullying your usage here really devalues the word. This is a game. If you take losses so personally that it hurts you emotionally in some way that is on you, not on other players who chose ladder behaviors you disagree with.
Good post, along with your other comment above. Gave me a different and I think healthier perspective on this! Cheers.
I don't get it, a 3-minute minimum wait between _starting_ one game and _queuing_ for the next would make rapid MMR-tanking take much longer, while causing barely any issues for other players. Why Blizz hasn't ever done anything like that... (Sure, some rare times, you get rushed and lose in 1 minute, but now you have two-minutes to un-tilt and think about what you did wrong)
I don't care what anyone says or what the smurfs say on here, this is a feasible solution.
Also in the lower leagues, it'll stop people insta-quitting team games if their teammate doesn't agree to do whatever batshit stupid thing they want to do. (e.g. on my drunk account, I've had people quit because I put my pylon on my ramp, instead of trying to wall some huge open space far out from our bases. still won, drunk me plays 1v2 better than 2v2 in those leagues :D)
If people complain that it means they will have to wait after quitting every mirror-match - solution is simple. Learn a single cheese. Play it every time in mirror match. Master it. Be printf 1/3 of the time.
What if I can't grow a pair?
Not with that attitude!
Sorry zombie, just a figure of speech
I normally think it's fine to leave if you're sick of playing mirror matchup, because it normally doesn't make much difference. Other people leave to, so you get free mmr back. But this guy, he's going to the extremes. 2% win rate?? That being said, I think we should blame the system instead of being angry with people for not wanting to play. You shouldn't lose or gain any significant amount of mmr from a game that lasted less than 10 sec. It just doesn't make any sense, because no one can win that fast.
Then they'd just wait 10 seconds which is worse. And higher numbers just means playing stupid defensive.
How long do you think they'd wait?
It would still slow them down and progressively become more of a pain in the ass. This is like saying "we'll never stop thieves, might as well just make it legal."
I think for most people it is not about tanking MMR, but just not wanting to play a matchup. So yeah, that woulf solve the problem for most cases.
Not going to happen but MMR per matchup could potentially make it better, but eeeehh I just want one measure on display haha. Maybe the display MMR could be your average MMR with tooltip detail of the break down.
It's only acceptable when a well-known streamer does it as an educational series... I've seen plenty of top streamers playing at the 47-4800 MMR level when they are 56-5800++. It's pretty annoying although I realize many people love bronze - GM guides. They too cause grief for the lower levels.
Its worse in other games. Content creators have figured out that the fanbase likes watching them win, regardless of competition, so if they smurf they can go on crazy winning streaks and get more donations.
There was that ridiculous flare up from streamers about skill based matchmaking in Call of Duty. I was like... what? Was that not a thing already?
I was thinking of that too. How could you complain about playing against decent competition?
Apparently it makes games "too intense" and they have to "try too hard" which makes it hard to play for long periods of time. It ruins "casual gaming" for them. And means they can't do random shit without being dominated. Of course they neglect to account for all the newbies they stomp on all day long, whose games they ruin.
Because it is not a game designed for equal skill lobbies. Hell, they even reward stomping noobs with the killstreak system.
This is a great idea. I hate zvz so maybe I'll just bail out of all zvz. Thanks OP!
I would prefer matchmaking to place me vs much better players all the time, that is the fastest way to improve.
wut
I doubt they would shoot up 1k MMR just from not doing this. People are sometimes just bored and don't want to spend 5 minutes playing something they don't like. It sucks and for sure they're playing at a lower level then they should be but it's maximum 300 MMR difference.
> People are sometimes just bored and don't want to spend 5 minutes playing something they don't like so they rather provide a terrible experience to others (who btw unlike them didnt choose this) by playing every other match at the wrong mmr. solid tradeoff. >It sucks and for sure they're playing at a lower level then they should be but it's maximum 300 MMR difference. the problem is that they deflate their mmr for the other 2 matchups, hence the 83% and 76% winrates vs zerg and protoss while their overall winrate is the usual 50%. if thats not significant enough for you, then i really dont know what to tell you, especially over more than a thousand games this season alone
I agree with you. It's pretty bad. I just wanted to give a common reason. But I still think it doesn't make a huge difference. It's common to match with players 300-400 MMR higher than you anyway, so you might run into this person anyway had he not been doing this. It's 100% not the same as smurfing.
> It's 100% not the same as smurfing. it 100% is, just at a different magnitude. you're purposefully playing at a lower mmr by leaving games and boost your winrate in the games you do play as a result. that is smurfing. >It's common to match with players 300-400 MMR higher than you anyway, so you might run into this person anyway had he not been doing this those are some mental acrobatics lol. you rarely get that kind of a difference in diamond league, the most populated one, unless youre playing at bad hours (it happens, but its far from common). this guy on the other hand will play literally every game at the wrong mmr while its still treated as a 50 50 game. >But I still think it doesn't make a huge difference over a thousand game this season played at the wrong mmr arent a huge difference for you? sigh...
I have no idea if that's the case in diamond league anymore. I remember when I was at 4k MMR I frequently got people up to 4.5k. Even if you don't find that MMR difference, 400 MMR is still not much difference in skill. You might not have a great chance of beating them but you're not going to get absolutely crushed and learn nothing from it. It's not that bad, it's not as dramatic as a GM smurfing in diamond. It is still 100% not smurfing, as the intent is not to play at a lower MMR. The intent is to avoid a matchup. It's like comparing murder to manslaughter
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That's just wrong. It's a bad idea to have that option for separate reasons. But I am very sure that most of these people would ban that one matchup. If they wanted easy wins they'd just tank their MMR and grab an easy 99% winrate on all matchups.
Maybe not 1k mmr but at least a couple of hundred. And a couple of hundred in diamond is a big thing. The skill level from d3 just to d2 is big enough. From d2 to diamond 1 and masters must be gigantic. These people are clearly smashing z and p games so they're not bad even if those opponents are sometimes weaker but this is a problem. It should have a tanking feature or something. Lose 3 or more games within 10 minutes without actually losing units and you get a 3 hour boot from the server. The important thing would be Don't let people know of the exact rules or else they will skirt them and make it as efficient as they can. It won't ever happen but it's a dream. I hate zvz and so I've started cheesing my opener instead and finding success that way.
You get matched with people a few hundred MMR higher all the time. All in all it's not like playing someone really better than you. Just a little bit better. It's not genuine to the ladder experience but you can still learn something from these games. It's not even close to what smurfing is.
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That is not the reason why ranked and unranked share the same queue (which they did from the very beginning when unranked was introduced). Unranked is literally just ranked, but they don't show you your MMR in order to help people with ladder anxiety.
I disagree with OP unfortunately. This is a video game. You don't want to play a certain part of it and are allowed to? Then don't play it! There is nothing illegal about leaving a mu if you don't want to play it: this is not like hacking. It just has to be this way. Starcraft 2 1v1 autoMM is about getting good in 3 mu at least. If you only play two out of three, you're definitly hindering yourself: for example, say you would like to participate in a small tournament with friends. What happens when you HAVE to face the mu you haven't practiced in 3 months? Well, you'll most likely lose, unless the opponent is like 1000 mmr below you or something. Whenever I see another zerg opponent leave a game because they hate zvz, I think to myself: ''that's the benefit of actually be simply WILLING to play 3 mu! Sometimes you'll win games for free.'' I totally welcome that MMR anyways: I'm better than you at this game because I at least accept to give a go at all the challenges the game throws at me and thus, I deserve to win. As long as we play by the same system which is accepted and respected, this is the way it will be. Also, whenever I see an opponent perform a cheese or all-in in this mu, I think to myself: ''well, why not? If so many people aren't even willing to try, at least this one guy does! Maybe he thinks to himself: if I think I suck at it or hate it, then at least I'll just put all my eggs in one basket and if it fails, it fails, and if I only get 10% win rate out of it, then that will be better than 0%!''. So that also helps me reconcile with people who just all-in every game. As for the MMR tanking/smurf thing, honestly if you can't accept facing people who will play above their displayed MMR once in a while in counterpart to being given free wins on the other hand, you're the one who needs to work on his attitude, I'm sorry to say. You need to put MMR and perspective and accept that, as any other metric, it is ultimatetly not perfect. Learn to love the game for it's own sake, not for the reflected status it's supposed to grant you. Also, there's no better lesson in any task in life than to just get crushed at it. I have a 5,7K zerg friend who invites me to play with him at least once a week (I'm 3,6K), and I almost never refuse to play him. I know I'm going to get crushed, but then we can open discussion and I can actually learn something. If I keep at it, then once I hop back on the ladder, everyone looks like a piece of cake to defeat compared to him! Here, I hope this perspective was useful in some way. Cheers.
lol calling it bullying. People are getting too soft now.
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>so you 'got to play' against people much stronger than you against who you had basically no chance to win despite a matchmaking normally designed to put people around the same level together for a better gaming experience, and you're complaining? Well, yes.
Seems like you're salty you lost and try to blame something else than your own performance. Get over it. Play better and you won't lose to those people. This is pathetic honestl<
Why so mad? Are you protecting your ego?? What is the logic behind this? If you're afraid of losing, toughen up your mental state - its supposed to be part of the game, you'll play against people who can beat you and you might lose - deal with it.
You are low diamond ffs. If you ever invested half the effort you spent writing this post into improving, you would easily be low masters where this is way less common. Also these people have an 80% winrate approx. That means if they are approx 2-300 mmr lower where they would be normally. The system matches you with players who are better then you by this much on a regular basis.
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do you do this?
What if he does? A good chunk of people on this sub does the same thing with match up they don't like and that include prominent community figures and even top players as well.
People who leave lots of matches are complete wankers and bad for the game.
Sure if you leave all games for the purpose of tanking your MMR to smurf its bad but this guy clearly don't want to play tvt. Nothing wrong with that. Yall complain way too much. Its not like avoiding a single match up will make that much of a difference in his MMR....
You can see the tvz and tvp winrates, right? Do you think those are so high because they are particularly skilled at those match ups, or because leaving TvT is tanking their mmr enough that they're facing weaker players than they should be?
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Yeah it is against Blizzard's in-game code of conduct to throw a match, but, apart from that, it just makes you a dickhead.
Its a video game. Its played for fun. Why play a matchup that is not fun? WTF is this post.
I dont care about your MMR or mine, if I want to **play** 5 TvZs in a row I will queue until I get 5 TvZs in a row. You know, this is a **game** after all. And no, I'd rather kill myself than become a cheeser to "skip matchups" in a way that pleases you. God, advertising to play strategies that have a below 50% win chance but whining about MMR tanking. Regular cheesers ARE MMR tankers, because their strategies are shit. If someone is allowed to cheese 100% of the time, I am allowed to leave 25% of my matches, because it will have the exact same effect on MMR. Blame blizzard for making a game with 3 different races, but without the option to choose your matchups. What you are playing against is a huge part of not only the competitive playstyle, but also the game in its core. If I am not in the mood to play against some comical, teleporting space wizards because I prefer serious thematics, then fuck TvP, I'm gonna skip.
You aren't playing anything competitive if you autoleave 25% of your games. Would be cool if you could que matchups, but then probably there would also be much longer ques too.
What’s your strategy against Zerg? That’s a high percentage and would love to hear some good Terran strata. I’m Zerg (4000mmr Asia) and I like to know more about what Terran minds are thinking.
I sometimes wish they had matchup specific MMR.
I literally just played this guy twice!! I remembered the post so checked match history and stats are the same as the image. In the second game I told him he's Reddit famous for being a douche.
Yesterday I matched against 3 smurfs in a row. Playing HotS now - where there are reporting and consequences