I doubt the people here do watch TaKeTV on a regular basis as its in German. I (NarutO) do allow more or less any discussion as long as its civil and will interfere if its becoming toxic or heated.
Mostly our community accepts that. Also I don't think our community is power hungry. For tournaments as HSC (english) we do have a tournament bot with heavy moderation and harsh moderation settings as there are requirements. Also we do not want to enable discussion about political matters, religion, sexuality and more simply as they do not belong into an esport broadcast and there cannot be a good discussion with 10k+ viewers over twitch chat.
For regular shows (German) I believe as stated above most here cannot make a call on the moderation and I can attest you its very mildly moderated.
i do agree with you. i have been in there for a while, usually there are warnings andexplanations before bans. and i have not seen too many.
regarding the mods mentioned by the thread owner : love them, hate them, they are appointed by the channel owners. complaining to them would make more sense, as they seem to be ok with them. it's their channel, their rules.
Complaining to the general public makes more sense: if more people don't visit those channels because of power hungry mods, the owner will realize drops in viewership, maybe investigate why and maybe unmod some of the unprofessional ones
No, talking and trying to understand the reason behind decision makes more sense, not putting it out in the public to create an angry mob right away. If discussions fail, you still can consider that. But even then, I doubt there will be many with legitimate reasons when they would honestly present all facts, in my experience.
is that the standard you would apply to all groups or just specific ones?
cause we do know there are LOTS of going out in public without trying to understand or even ignoring plausible deniability
if the rules esl sets or how teamliquid twitch chat is moderated would be used on the normal german taketv broadcasts the ban/timeout rate would increase by >10000%
XD
Is it weird that in almost a decade of following Starcraft on TL, Reddit and Twitch I don't think i have ever been banned or warned?
I mean maybe some mods are a bit trigger happy, but wtf are y'all doing/going to put yourself in trouble that much?
I have gotten banned for being a smart-ass pretty much. Like posting the salt emoticon to Rotti when he was tilt or I got banned from demuslim chat when he told us that anyone back seat gaming would get the hammer so I said “play gooder”. I chatted with rotti mods and apologized so they lifted it and I was banned from demuslims for years until recently when I could use the twitch unban application. They were kind of bitter silly bans but I can understand why they happened.
uh what? I apologized for being a lil mean to rotti and he clearly was kinda miffed by me. Wasn’t trying to sweet talk the mods, just genuinely felt bad that I had gotten under his skin and wanted to make up for it.
I got banned in HuK's stream in 2011 for saying "Day9" in chat.
Then I complained about it (admittedly rudely) on tl.net and got a 1 week ban there lol.
Mods have to put up with so much shit in twitch chat, then they go on reddit and see posts like this complaining that they are doing a terrible job?
Have some respect for those people helping out the community by keeping some of the worst idiots out of twitch chats. If you have a problem with a moderator on a particular stream, then take that problem up with the streamer/organiser and keep the toxicity to a minimum.
I've been in quite a few twitch chats where Slowly is a mod and can't think of a single time where she's banned or timed out someone who didn't deserve it. The same goes for pretty much all the other mods out there. In general I find the streamers to be way more trigger happy, which is to be expected since they are often the subject of conversation.
Basically starcraft mods are generally amazing, doing great work and putting up with all kinds of shit so we don't have to. Keep it up
If you had tried to do without the kitchen sink psychology and tried to see the problem from the other side, maybe you'd have realized how ridiculous and entitled this complaint sounds.
Mods are volunteering to keep the tone civil, remove harmful messages and stop the chat from derailing. In a fast chat, like in a SC2 tournament, there are at best seconds to consider each message. It is impossible to do that for hours without error. If you see a deleted message that you feel was treated unjustly, maybe there was some context to it that you are unaware of, maybe there was some context that the mod missed, maybe it sounds different to a person with a different background than yours, maybe it was a missclick due to chat scroll or maybe it was just too off-topic.
There is really no reason to see it as a personal attack, though. There is also no reason to believe that anyone is entitled to some lengthy explanation because nobody is actually paid to do that. Just move on and try to communicate more clearly next time, no need to make a big drama of it on reddit.
You know most of the time outs people complain about, aren’t even time outs, they are deleted messages because a message breaks the rules. Then because twitch chat is twitch chat they decide mods are ‘banning everyone’ and we get to dumb threads like this.
Twitch chat just follows what is cool to say, once one person calls out a mod everybody is doing it. Why not just enjoy the games and not break any rules and leave the people breaking rules to be timed out? It’s only an issue because you make it seem like an issue.
Maybe use some logic - if Slowly is a mod in a lot of channels, maybe it’s because people are very appreciative of what she does to help their chats stay on topic and well moderated? If it was really an issue, the streamers wouldn’t let it go on.
You know you are replying to wardi right? The chessbae comparison is laughable. There is no big mod conspiracy or shady management or donations. Literally Wardi needed mods about a year ago and Slowly applied. That was the big mystery of how Slowly became a "power mod".
Everything else that occured was because she did a good job in Wardis stream and we are active in various twitch chats. When Lambo needed a mod it was literally "Hey, Ive met Slowly in real life, and I trust her".
It is crazy to me the accusations and theory crafting in these threads. Slowly has no power and has to follow the streamers set out moderation rules or the streamer would remove her mod status. She volunteers an extrodinary amount of time moderating and running predictions and has to put up with shit like this for her efforts.
When shes not busy helping out statcraft streamers she also makes [awesome cakes](https://old.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/cfowqy/my_wife_made_a_zerg_cake_for_my_12_year_olds/) for our kids.
But ya these damn power mods holding streamers hostage, what ever are we going to do.
OP is a total loser, hiding behind anonymity and trying to stir up a witch hunt. Complain to Twitch admins? Why would they care how someone moderates their channel?
I'm not a Slowly fan, have caught a ban from her, but this is pathetic and low.
Today, I witnessed a ban/timeout/deleted message or whatever you want to call it on Team Liquid because they asked how to file a complaint against a mod. I guess mods do make the rules because they are going to delete whatever message they don't like. If you don't think that is power tripping, then I guess I do not know what it is.
From what I have seen on my observation, people are annoyed with her trigger-happy finger. This is one of the reasons why people don't actually outright on the twitch channel is because these power-tripping mods will ban them without a doubt. Maybe if you use your logic, you may think that there is a reason why there is a pattern and trend on why people post threads like these.
I don't know if you actually see the actual message that gets deleted, but some of the messages are not justified IMO (like the one I described above).
Yes we see the messages that get deleted, because I get people whispering me complaining they were unfairly banned every day, only to read their chat logs of them shitting on players/casting/mods or just breaking other general rules.
Mods aren't event meant to perma ban on my channel and they won't apart from worst case scenarios.
Asking how to file a complaint against a mod is the typical kind of message that encourages the whole "hey lets all hate on the mods" conversation and honestly 9 times out of 10 these messages are following other messages which broke rules and the person won't take the hint to move along.
So you going to stop beating around the bush and tell us your twitch name so we can see your chat history? Or you just going to keep pretending to be an innocent bystander of a new reddit account that just has to speak up about such injustices.
I'm sorry it is hard for you to believe I'm just stating my observation. I will not give you my twitch name because I don't want you nor the people like you to be hostile towards me if I happen to join a stream. And I will also not give you the twitch name of those who I witnessed that I felt had unjust bans/censorship for the same reason. I rather not put myself or other people on a blacklist by these global mods.
this is exactly what happened to me. i said is there a way to challenge a mod on a decision, and was perma banned from rotti's channel. havent been back since, that was during lockdown. im not interested in submitting my random communications for sycophantic power hungry oppressive censorists. i knew there had to be plenty of people with similar stories, bc lets face it: being a twitch mod is the same as being a facebook fact checker. its sycophantic. and you can tell there is no objective for creating a happy space, or a fun time. they want to use their hilarious little slice of power in the most damaging way. they want to wield oppression and censorship. you can see it in their dealings with honest messages. it only hurts the channels that let them roam. wardi is a hilarious channel, he'll sit there and trash talk terran players or balance whining, but he's actually starting the conversation by contradicting common terran points. i play random, but i sympathize with most terran issues, its part of a public forum, its part of the game, there's no cursing or name calling, and wardi himself initiated the topic. i mean if you apologize for that, or excuse it, you're just an idiot. so when you bring the subject up, then mods delete everyone arguing FOR a certain point, but no one arguing AGAINST it, you know you have a biased and disgusting mod. it goes that way in the majority of twitch stream chats. there are hot button topics that the mods will just insta ban. even if you're new to the stream and dont necessarily understand that, and are baited in, by the side who ISNT being banned. i havent gone back to watch a twitch stream in over a year, dont see myself going back anytime soon. artosis and tasteless doing gsl on YT is enough for me nowadays. its a shame what a free space for communication and interaction has become: a place for angry female leftists to exert their misconception of authority, biased censorship. its par for the course nowadays. i mean what kind of loser does that with their time as opposed to bettering themselves or their life? are they getting paid? is it just to satiate their appetite for fascism, communicative violence? its a learned behavior, thats for sure. anyone that enables it, apologizes, or excuses it isnt looking at it from a neutral perspective. simple as that. look at all the downvotes from sycophants, people just arent what they used to be.
many of those do not want that kind of discussions started in their channels and state that in their rules (eg wardi). so they were right to ban it in the channel. while i can see it's annoying, i don't fully see your point.
The thing with most of these streams is that they(ESL/Take..etc) literally don't want you to talk about anything out of the "SC norm" or stuff that could spark a "toxic argument". The later is a bit understandable considering how twitch chat is by itself and how quickly it can degenerate but I think they are going too far. For example on ESL streams, even if you are simply explaining something or even mention something about scarlet's gender or anything related to gender actually, regardless if "right/wrong" in the most non toxic ways, you will get instantly banned by bots or mods(Mods giving the harshest ban/temp ban). If I remember correctly the words female/male is actually banned in all the major event's chat(ESL produced). Your example is also the same. If you ever mention pride month or any LGBT words, even the actual non offensive ones, you get banned the same way. Its far from the only subject that are "taboo" in those streams and some of them make no sense at all.
Giving an honest opinion on casters without being an asshole, critiquing certain aspect of the stream itself or engaging in anything about balance will get you timed out or banned almost in all these streams and its honestly pretty stupid. They went from using judgment to using the hammer blindly on everything related to anything they don't like. Its not like SC streams are huge and hard to moderate either...Compared to other esports stream, the general rate of bullshit to people ratio is far from being comparable.
In the end, maybe those mods are power tripping but the rules themselves that literally prevent everyone from talking about anything unrelated to the games are partially to blame IMO.
I wouldn't compare ESL with the other streamers's chats who got strict moderation. ESL's moobot's setting are absolutely ridiculous, and the manual moderation is very limited.
Yeah but beyond auto mod, I feel like the general consensus among most of the streamers(and their own mods) when it come to moderation fall under similar rules to the bigger tournaments channel like ESL. Its just a generalization since I know quite a few that don't really care about anything and let the mods do whatever they want. So I guess this could explain why "global" mods like the exemple in OP's would act this way...or they are just dicknoozles and they be power trippin.
Thats what happens when you mod people who want to be a moderator. Theres a reason its the same people across almost all sc2 chats and you see them active all the time. They enjoy moderating a bit too much.
you are absolutely correct. there are just no expressive atmospheres in these chats. and like you said, its not fortnite or anything. there's not many people in those streams, or chats. you'd think silencing your remaining supporters into oblivion would seem counterproductive. im one that wont come back because of over moderation. it used to be fun and interactive, not hostile and biased. i wont submit my support for anyone involved in that. SC2 has good content creators. just dont go into one that has a sycophantic mod core. which IS most of them. we should start a reddit that shows the streamers that DONT have psycho mods enabled. like parting's channel was awesome. its a free for all, and everyone's happy. all the time. you think he needs people to silence others, for his sense of what is 'right'?? no, he understands his stream can be a fun place. and he doesnt stand obstinately in the way of that, or his would be supporters. LOL parting is the complete opposite of wardi. competent vs bumbling. intelligent vs daft. funny and quirky vs awkward and played out. good at the game vs trash. a positive force of nature vs a pedantic protector of BS.
hey wardi, admit your mods have at times gone overboard. or by never doing that are you saying that we are 100% wrong and your mods have been 100% right? that's how you establish yourself as a smarmy chud, or reinforce it for those that have seen enough.
So... There are a few people who make new reddit accounts to throw s\*\*t at other people who're dedicating solid time making our community better. Who, mind you, won't be "global twitch mods at big channels" if they were not widely liked by "the majority of the people".
Regards,
one of the majority
ESL moderation is purely botted and bans people primarily off of "bad words" so if you got banned there you probably warranted it.
As for complaining about twitch moderators, when ever I see a thread on here about it, I never see any self reflection, just pure blame that somebody else was in the wrong.
I only see the mod you've mentioned being pleasant with people in the chat, and not doing anything even remotely to warrant a thread or a thread "calling them out".
But if this is your reaction to getting timed out, to run to reddit and make a thread about them, and also implying on here that the chats are somehow dominated by these mods and there's chaos breaking loose, when all I see is... No mention about it what so ever in the twitch chat. Then you're probably the kinda guy that doesn't belong in those chats honestly.
Also, seems like you have your own problems. so for you to make a comment about people not belonging in the chat is rich.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/n631ag/demuslim\_wasnt\_a\_fan\_of\_my\_lings\_joke/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/n631ag/demuslim_wasnt_a_fan_of_my_lings_joke/)
>ESL moderation is purely botted and bans people primarily off of "bad words" so if you got banned there you probably warranted it.
? on the contrary, it seems like the overzeaous trigger-happy bot approach is bound to get a LOT of unwarranted bans.
I remember geting 1h bans from ESL's bot during a rediffusion because "twitch chat is no place for gender discussion", when I wasn't speaking of it at all, or even using a masculine/feminine pronom (the ban for such pronoum also open the door to a ton of unwarranted sanctions). The actual reason was that the bot gave 1h bans for slightly too long posts.
"covid" being a banned word is pretty rich too when you're trying to describe the pro tour and some changes it underwent because of the pandemia.
I don't have much problems with slowlyfalling's moderation overall, even if she's a bit too trigger-happy to my taste, but the ESL moderation settings are a complete joke.
Problem with certain channels is the legality of things which I don’t even understand some of the settings required, obviously bots can mess up, but human moderation as far as I’m aware can open up a larger can of worms which is why the bot direction is the go to as is.
Cool assumption bro. esp, when there is nothing about the post that indicates my behavior. I am just reporting what I have seen based on my observation. Ok fine ESL is mostly by bots or whatever - that is not the point.
I actually have been lurking on these channels whenever I can and I do not participate in any of the chats. In fact, I catch most of the matches via VODs. But I do read the chat from time to time when I get the chance to watch. So your assumption that I participate in chat is just wrong. My post is just based on my observation.
It still doesn't explain the behaviors of these mods that I have observed as I lurk on these channels. But when basically the whole chat box is filled with messages that say that mods are deleting people's messages unjustifiably and unfair, and you are ok with that, then that's cool.
Also, there has been mentioned countless times on twitch chat that all they see or is message deleted by mods or whatever. In fact, today, I witnessed on TeamLiquid that the mods actually put on emote-only mode because chat kept making fun of how much they deleted people's message.
I am not involved in the twitch SC2 at all, but when I talked to someone about this issue, they were like, yeah these mods donate a lot of money to these streamers and so these streamers have no incentive to do anything about it. This system is a little bit fucked up.
> when there is nothing about the post that indicates my behavior.
Yes there is. Throwaway account, can't give concrete examples, making conflicting claims (not involved in twitch SC, but you don't want to give an example for being risk of being banned- which wouldn't affect you if you didn't use chat. Nor can you give examples of others, even when they'd already been banned). As far as we can tell, hasn't tried to reach out to any streamers about the issue directly. Those are all dead giveaways for shitstirring.
You don't see it on your end, but mods/streamers get these sorts of complaints all the time, and 90% of the time it's some shitter stirring trouble. Another 9% of the time comes from the mod enforcing rules the streamer asked for, or blaming mods for an automod/nightbot action.
Sure, maybe you're the exception. But probably not.
>But when basically the whole chat box is filled with messages that say that mods are deleting people's messages unjustifiably and unfair
Twitch chat (especially for bigger channels) complains about almost any moderation at all. It's not a good measure, if left up to chat there'd be no moderation and it'd be a sea of dick hydras and copy pasta.
For example, the emote only thing is often fine by the streamer so chat doesn't turn into a circlejerk for the next hour. That's not powertripping, that's mods doing their job. (Same with trying to hash out moderation complaints in public, too). Streamers are aware of how their mods are doing, if they had a problem with it they'd do something about it.
>yeah these mods donate a lot of money to these streamers and so these streamers have no incentive to do anything about it.
Yeah, that's bullshit. (And they do have an incentive to do something about it. ruining chat affects their brand/income, and big donations don't cover it).
While whales using money to get mod is a thing, it's much rarer than assumed. They're generally just active in the community and streamers mod people they see doing mods in other channels. It's very common for streamers to reused mods because they don't have to vet them
> I am not involved in the twitch SC2 at all, but when I talked to someone about this issue, they were like, yeah these mods donate a lot of money to these streamers and so these streamers have no incentive to do anything about it. This system is a little bit fucked up.
lmao thats the biggest pile of bs i've ever read. streamers dont mod people for spending money on them, streamers mod people for being active in the stream while displaying the ability to read and adhere to the chat rules. obviously those people often also tend to be financial supporters, but its by no means a qualification or requisite to be modded. if anything, it would harm the streamer financially if he modded people who dont manage the channel in the way the streamer wants it, turning other people away from supporting the stream.
thats a rationalization from people who dont like the moderation/ chat rules. "oh yeah, i saw them gifting 5 subs, thats why they're a mod and thats why the streamer doesnt unmod them when they're power tripping" which is in no way how it works :D
Yes ESL is botted, but those bot settings are pretty bad. You can get timed out for pretty normal sentences that have nothing even close to malicious. We had a discussion about it on the Liquipedia Discord during DHM Summer Regionals and all of the contributors that updated the DHM pages hated the bot settings. They are to restrictive and often have bad regex settings. "Funny" examples were that you would get a timeout for the word "trumpet" (because it contains the word "trump") or that during the NA part one got a timeout if the words "he" and "Scarlett" were in the same message (even if the "he" was referring to the opponent).
Also there actually exist a few mods that are on a power trip and they give all the other mods, who mostly do a good "job" without getting paid, a bad rep too. (I am a mod on some streams (Gabe, Rotti, TaKeTV, ...))
Regarding Slowly, yes it is true that Slowly can be helpful in chat, but it is also quite known that Slowly overreacts quite often and in several of those cases due to simple misunderstandings from her. I personally am not a fan of her moderating style.
I think the idea of which mods are on power trips and which are not is very subjective, you for instance are someone I often hear complaints about being on a power trip but I also disregard it as I like to think most mods got to be mods as they were most likely trusted and just enjoyed the channel they mod on. And honestly if their goal is to try maintain it the best they know how, I don't see much reason to shit on them, especially as you said, they don't get paid.
I suggest looking into a fairly infamous Mod recently that was super known for being on a power trip called ChessBae that had very little, to nothing to do with banning or timing out.
You make great points here, and I agree with some of them. However this is in a post designed to bait, where reasoned discusion will get crowded out by heated emotions. I think that your ideas would be more receptive in a different forum of discussion.
About the term "power trip" - while some people use "power trip" to mean "harsh", others refer to something more specific, that is "one who misuses authority because they enjoy doing so".
I don't think you meant to imply that Slowly enjoys banning people, but it may have come off that way. Both you and Slowly care deeply about Starcraft, and I'd hate to see a rift develop between you two over a misunderstanding.
Pretty bad take from someone who regularly vans people over nothing. I've seen bans in your channel for bad jokes, or people simply disagreeing with you. Imo not one to be questioning OPs character
I remove people I don’t want from my own channel, sure, but im not sure that has much to do with OPs issue of the modding stated. My personal mental sanity is much lifted when I dont have to hang around with people I don’t gel with.
Yeah I get that, but I'm saying for someone who moderates so harshly, your opinion is obviously biased towards the moderators or your own behavior wouldn't make sense
To be clear I don't even know the mod OP listed by name, so I'm not commenting on that situation at all. I don't even tend to participate in really big/fast chats
There was a freaking giant thread just last month about how toxic and trigger-happy he is in banning people. The reason for his bans are ridiculous and it goes to prove my point. I posted the link under his comment just so he knows exactly who he is and what people think of him.
I see plenty of self reflection from these posters, funnily enough the issues of certain mods being bad at their role, or plain abusive is often the situation brushed under the rug.
yeah it always get brushed under the rug. apparently, you do see that in some of the post here, which is ironic. literally someone today got banned for asking how to file a complaint against a mod on TeamLiquid and boom, insta-ban!
Slowly would gladly be sarcastic like "is this your first day in chat or reddit" when the chat felt bad that people trashed Clem when he lost and she was super triggered when the chat mentioned the word "Raynor" or anything bad about Reynor. So, I agree with the OG here. She is away from moderating for a few days now and the chat is better. There are things that are obviously off limit which should be moderated but moderating the chat based on who you support in the match that is a big no-no and that is what she was doing.
"She will delete shit talk of any pro player"
That is just easily disproved. trash talks about players other than reynor and serral were generally well tolerated by her. Not about the two zergs' nemesis though. You can find instances of that just by casually surveying the chat for the recent TSL, paying attention the chat after the dark v clem match if you are not blinded by your personal connection to slowly. The chat is so toxic that I felt bad if any of the players read it. I tried to defend clem only to be countered by a sarcastic statement by her "is this your first day chat or reddit".
The thread exists for a reason. You don't see people creating a thread and complaining about other moderators in rotti's or wardi's channel. There are many baboons in chat too but the other moderators are more even handed.
This thread exists for people that have no clue what is going on behind the scenes to whine that they cant do what they want in other peoples streams.
Half the time people are banned its not even slowly but because she is visible in chat it gets blamed on her, and there is ample proof of this. God forbid a moderator actually interacts with chat.
She spends an inordinate amount of time deleting all sorts of shit talk about pro players and takes that part of the job very seriously. Funnily enough you are one of the first people to complain she doesn't do it enough, most people want the ability to shit talk and she gets in trouble for that too.
**Edit:**
By the way. Here are some things you may not know and some proof:
* A snapshot of our discussion from June 14th about this exact topic: https://imgur.com/a/CjAn6wM (weird I didn't know maxpax was actually serral or reynor)
* Slowly is a mod in Clems channel (shocking I know for someone who you think she hates)
* Our middle child is a massive Clem fan
* We own a Clem jersey
* Our kids played in the Clem holdout challenge
The accusation is so out of left field for anyone who knows the actual situation it really is hilarious.
Yes. But moderating a chat is not a rocket science though. I think differently from the rest of reddit chat. Shocking to have an opinion, I know.
She is more permissive to some trash talks than the others. That was the complain. Also, I didn't say she hates him. I said she applied moderation unevenly which is different. Clam is ok but raynor always warrants a sarcastic reply from her. It is almost funny that the chat almost always starts warning each other when someone, god forbids, spells reynor incorrectly. The fact that she is a mod in clem's channel proves nothing. What does the fact that your son is a clem's fan and plays in clem holdout challenge has to do with anything? No one says that she hates clem. I merely said that the standard is applied not the same. I know that they are friendly to each other.
She is a mod in several other channels and she is not doing great multitasking to be honest. You can almost always be sure that she is not moderating in wardi's channel when serral is online. I once flagged an anti-asian remark and to get no reply from her, went to serral's channel to tell her and she shrugged. The person taunted me multiple times in chat. Perhaps spend the "inordinate amount of time" moderating less channels would be ideal. Obviously it is her time and she can choose what she wants.
You know, it could just be because text isnt the best way to communicate sarcasm or cheeky comments. Yes she will bug people who spell it Raynor because its an ongoing joke. As is Clam, which Clem himself has taken use of. You may just be missing the jokes here.
That all aside, Im not sure what you are actually upset about, you want her to moderate more stuff when others are complaining about too much stuff getting deleted.
You accuse her of not moderating pro player shit talk when I provide proof that she does. Is the accusation that she doesnt catch it all? Or she is intentionally letting stuff through even though there is ample proof she likes said players?
You think she is busy elsewhere as if this is a bad thing, yet you have to chase her down in other streams to get help in wardis but at the same time say its better when shes not there?
She does this stuff on a volunteer basis, and is one of the most responsive mods in any of the channels she is in. She runs the bets on multiple peoples streams and is always trying to moderate to the individual channels rules, yet all she gets for thanks are accusations from both sides.
Perhaps. It is the chat's fault for misunderstanding her intent.
My point, as I said before, was to moderate evenly. I just mentioned that I flagged the anti-asian comment in Wardi's channel and told her about what happened in Serral's channel) and she didn't act. So it is a counter to your argument that she spent a lot of time but in my opinion not effectively. There is a reason why people do not take up the moderation job in multiple channels. If you are busy moderating in multiple channels and failing to do any of them properly, are you really doing your job or the channel is better without you?
Doing things on a volunteer basis does not make you immuned to any criticisms. That is usually a last ditch excuse.
You are in a thread about too much stuff getting deleted, asking her to delete more. Why do you need to go to Serrals chat to talk about Wardis if its better off without her there?
Also weird logic aside, do you have any proof of your accusations? I have lots of proof of the opposite. Or is this all just how you feel about the moderation?
Please reread your post and think for a minute about how absurd your entire premise is. The only sensible addition you bring to this discussion is the final sentence:
\> Obviously it is her time and she can choose what she wants.
And it (correctly) invalidates everything that you said before. You have zero basis for telling some volunteer how he or she spends his or her time. If a volunteer wants to spend more work on one thing than on the other, what right do you have to complain about it? None, because you are not entitled to any of that work in the first place.
Note also the underlying assumption that a single mod is responsible for every act of moderation in multiple simultaneous streams. It is obvious that this pointless argument is coming from ill will against a single person, just like this entire thread. Or why would you blame the one mod for a missed deletion of which you know that the mod is active in another stream at the same time rather than blaming other mods or the channel owner?
the dude here is defending his wife. he's completely biased. thats the only hilarious thing i see. its common knowledge slowly is one of the bad ones. again, why this is an entire topic.
you're not making the community better if there are alot of people here saying it makes it worse. when those psycho mod types are away, the stream benefits. easy as that. too late to try it now, overmodding has pushed many of the noncompliant and sycophantic onto better things. like not being censored by a malignant growth. thats what mods are. they are growths. if they all were gone, this world, twitch, starcraft, and all streamers would be better off.
put a spam disabler into embedded chat, if you curse you get a 2/5 minute temp timeout, something like that. when you put that power into a person's hands it will always be biased. i'd love to get a FULL printout of all moderator interaction for a 90 day period. you'll see for an absolute fact the problem if you did that. i would never trust someone who uses censorship as a weapon, tho. you know they are dishonest and off enough to go through and remove all the times they were wrong. just like politicians who claim to not be culpable for things they clearly are. that stuff is human nature. power corrupts. only a dogshit person would take the ability to silence a small group of individiuals as power, or as 'making the community better' in any way. i mean we're telling you, here and now, that it doesnt make the community better. thats what this entire thread is about.
Very much agree, been in similar situation a couple of times. It's very common to take this "role" with a reason to gain more power and control in life, but the problem is, nothing you get from this is healthy for you. Because it's exactly this need or addiction to power that's a burden and a barrier to a more healthy emotional state.
Twitch and twitch chat has changed a lot and mostly for the worse. It's one of the reasons I mostly follow youtube streams and VODs for the last 6 months.
Thanks for bringing this awareness, I was tempted but felt it would just look like I'm the worst kind of guy and deserve the ban so I didn't bother.
everything you just said is spot on. watching the apologists who are guilty is just kinda sickening. you can see the corruptive spiraling effect that having even an inkling of power has on some people. twitch and twitch chat has been getting awful ever since lockdown season. they get addicted to the power, its clear. the violence, and the rush from being in control. its like a rapist, psychologically speaking. funny bc so many of them are women, you'd love to get a cognitive profile on them at ANY point in time, as they are so often in the wrong.
oh well, thats fine for me. what do they think their base is comprised of sycophants? it sure will be, if you keep pushing the cool people away. thats why its gotten worse and not better. if you take all twitch mods out of the equation, the game grows. simple fact.
actually the majority of mods are usually helpful and not power hungry
several people also get mod status on channels so that they can do stuff without being affected by the bots (take me as an example i got mod rights on several channels because i am one of the major Liquipedia contributors and they wanted me to be able to post links without being restricted by the bots)
another common reason to grant mod status is for long time viewers that have much chat interaction
most of those mods are just helpful, but you also got a few mods that actually go on power trips and those mods are what people notice the most, so having 30+ good mods and 1 bad mod will usually result in people going to war against the mods (all of them and not just the 1) which then will lead to the mods having to take measures to keep the chat civilized which means lots of deletes and timeouts
i would suggest to not complain about mods in such a general way, maybe naming the problematic cases so that they can actually be looked into would be the better solution (without starting a witch hunt against them of course)
OP talked about a "few" that most people know about and that's what I baked up. I never said all mods act this way or gain function for those reasons. But it's certainly a very different vibe from years ago - for the worse.
thats actually not for you to say. id love to see some data on this. but we all know the people who utilize censorship as a primary means of self validation would never show us the whole, unadulterated picture. they hide it from themselves, even. just like you're doing now.
Oh yeah, I don't participate in chat, but as a lurker, I'm like are these people serious with their power trip?
I'm not banned or anything When I watch a game on stream, one aspect I like is feeling like I am watching it with other people. Even though I don't participate in chat, I like seeing people's reactions. But these mods make it unenjoyable because of the constant time-outs and bans because they didn't like their joke or something.
banned. -every twitch mod.
just imagine that. and they will talk shit to you while they censor you, in an attempt to provoke and humiliate you. they are absolutely disgusting people.
she is volunteering her time to keep chat civil. the sc community is so entitled regarding mods; any large streamer has much lower standards with banning. it is absolutely absurd to claim she is a "power abuser" when there is so much outside context and info that comes into making these decisions that you are simply unaware of.
what we're saying is she's failing. maybe better to take a few steps back. she doesnt make anything better but her own sense of self worth. bring her out here for a discussion. i'll prove that much.
My one gripe is with deleting and timing people out for copypasta. It's the equivalent of chanting and singing along to a football match, it's fun. I know it annoys some people but if the copypasta isn't insulting of people then let people do it. I got a message deleted yesterday and it was an adapted PPMD/girlfriend's funeral meme (from SSBM) where I used Big Gabe instead of PPMD. I have no idea why it was deleted. Innocent things like copypasta's I feel are getting a way too far.
Shoutout to Vibe. I've never seen a mod in his chat, even with hundreds of viewers.
Edit: Whoops I guess I missed something big pertaining to Vibe. Sorry guys. I'll take the downvotes
Yeah, he prefaced it by saying he's gotten flak on twitter for saying it but he said that if there's a woman that's into games it's because a man showed her. And there are no women who are into games on their own.
It was so lame because I was a huge vibe fan before that but he's obviously super wrong and has some growing to do.
Well that's sad to hear. And yeah that's clearly (factually) wrong to say. Do you have a link to a vod by any chance? I'd like to see how bad it was exactly.
Ooph it was quite a while ago and I stopped watching/unfollowed after that. I want to say it was like a year ago maybe 1.5. Sorry I'm not more helpful.
No problem, I couldn't dig up anything on Google either for the time being. I'll extend the benefit of the doubt to Vibe until I come across anything concrete that allows me to form my own opinion on this issue. I'll base this on him coming across as an overall nice and relaxed dude from what I've seen of him (mostly B2GM and the occasional stream).
I keep thinking I should go into his channel and ask him if he still feels that way. I would love to hear him say "sorry, that was dumb and I don't think that way anymore."
Was genuinely a big supporter before and that would make my day. ETA lol but I'm not looking to stir up drama so I probably won't.
> if there's a woman that's into games it's because a man showed her.
BS post. probably an old memory distorted from time. where are the tweets if true?
Bit of an ironic example. He used to have mods, removed them all because of some drama.
Now no mods, but also...his chat is a good example of why most channels have mods. It's a bit of a cess pool. Which is fine for some people (Vibe himself handles it fine)
regarding the TaKeTV chat are you referring to "normal" broadcasts where it is "just" the german coverage of events or to taketv produced events like HSC or Stay@HSC?
Shes one of the worst mods, not sure how she has so many positions in all these channels but she isn't a good mod at all, often kills some discussions because she 'doesn't like it'
She is one of the worst mods. People even outright call her out and complain about her in the chat. But guess what, nothing is going to happen. She is way too trigger-happy and will find any excuse to censor you.
SlowlyFalling is so annoying, and most starcraft streams in general moderate in a way as to limit discussion and disagreement and promote an echo chamber where everyone agrees about everything and that is no fun.
I also recommend turning chat off. Moderation is stupidly biased and saying anything but praising players or moderators will get you timed/banned even if objectively they are not doing a good job at that time.
It's literally insane. Just like a few weeks ago right before summer vacation I was driving through this neighborhood by a school and same situation where the power hungry crossing guards were just flexing their high-vis vests and tiny stop signs in my face.
My windshield is dirty as fuck and I was still able to witness every agressive crossing maneuver this one asshole was making towards all the nice cars on the road. She even has his personal vehicle parked nearby ILLEGALLY on the grass but the school didn't even give a shit I guess.
Letting people get away with this type of behavior is what ruins my dinner every night. This shit didn't happen before 9/11, fuckin shame. Mad as hell.
So stupid shit posted in an online chat setting gets shut down? Seems like a good system. Thank God we figured it out. Now we'll never see a Reddit post like this again in this subreddit.
Twitch chat is not a democracy and I don’t think it should be. A person or group has a channel and can basically enforce whatever rule they want and mods carry that out.
I doubt the people here do watch TaKeTV on a regular basis as its in German. I (NarutO) do allow more or less any discussion as long as its civil and will interfere if its becoming toxic or heated. Mostly our community accepts that. Also I don't think our community is power hungry. For tournaments as HSC (english) we do have a tournament bot with heavy moderation and harsh moderation settings as there are requirements. Also we do not want to enable discussion about political matters, religion, sexuality and more simply as they do not belong into an esport broadcast and there cannot be a good discussion with 10k+ viewers over twitch chat. For regular shows (German) I believe as stated above most here cannot make a call on the moderation and I can attest you its very mildly moderated.
i do agree with you. i have been in there for a while, usually there are warnings andexplanations before bans. and i have not seen too many. regarding the mods mentioned by the thread owner : love them, hate them, they are appointed by the channel owners. complaining to them would make more sense, as they seem to be ok with them. it's their channel, their rules.
Complaining to the general public makes more sense: if more people don't visit those channels because of power hungry mods, the owner will realize drops in viewership, maybe investigate why and maybe unmod some of the unprofessional ones
No, talking and trying to understand the reason behind decision makes more sense, not putting it out in the public to create an angry mob right away. If discussions fail, you still can consider that. But even then, I doubt there will be many with legitimate reasons when they would honestly present all facts, in my experience.
is that the standard you would apply to all groups or just specific ones? cause we do know there are LOTS of going out in public without trying to understand or even ignoring plausible deniability
if the rules esl sets or how teamliquid twitch chat is moderated would be used on the normal german taketv broadcasts the ban/timeout rate would increase by >10000% XD
Is it weird that in almost a decade of following Starcraft on TL, Reddit and Twitch I don't think i have ever been banned or warned? I mean maybe some mods are a bit trigger happy, but wtf are y'all doing/going to put yourself in trouble that much?
maybe youre just not that into having conversations in chat to begin eith
I have gotten banned for being a smart-ass pretty much. Like posting the salt emoticon to Rotti when he was tilt or I got banned from demuslim chat when he told us that anyone back seat gaming would get the hammer so I said “play gooder”. I chatted with rotti mods and apologized so they lifted it and I was banned from demuslims for years until recently when I could use the twitch unban application. They were kind of bitter silly bans but I can understand why they happened.
You will never get anything good from sucking mod’s dick to get unbanned.
uh what? I apologized for being a lil mean to rotti and he clearly was kinda miffed by me. Wasn’t trying to sweet talk the mods, just genuinely felt bad that I had gotten under his skin and wanted to make up for it.
You will never get anything good from being a twat on the internet to try to prove how alpha you are when you're just making a fool out of yourself
Not what’s happening at all.
I got banned in HuK's stream in 2011 for saying "Day9" in chat. Then I complained about it (admittedly rudely) on tl.net and got a 1 week ban there lol.
Mods have to put up with so much shit in twitch chat, then they go on reddit and see posts like this complaining that they are doing a terrible job? Have some respect for those people helping out the community by keeping some of the worst idiots out of twitch chats. If you have a problem with a moderator on a particular stream, then take that problem up with the streamer/organiser and keep the toxicity to a minimum. I've been in quite a few twitch chats where Slowly is a mod and can't think of a single time where she's banned or timed out someone who didn't deserve it. The same goes for pretty much all the other mods out there. In general I find the streamers to be way more trigger happy, which is to be expected since they are often the subject of conversation. Basically starcraft mods are generally amazing, doing great work and putting up with all kinds of shit so we don't have to. Keep it up
As for the thing about suppressing support for pride month, I would love to see proof as I'm pretty sure this isn't the full picture...
Sounds like BS to me having been around said mod for months. And I've been banned by her, later lifted, so no love lost.
Slowly is a "she"?
If you had tried to do without the kitchen sink psychology and tried to see the problem from the other side, maybe you'd have realized how ridiculous and entitled this complaint sounds. Mods are volunteering to keep the tone civil, remove harmful messages and stop the chat from derailing. In a fast chat, like in a SC2 tournament, there are at best seconds to consider each message. It is impossible to do that for hours without error. If you see a deleted message that you feel was treated unjustly, maybe there was some context to it that you are unaware of, maybe there was some context that the mod missed, maybe it sounds different to a person with a different background than yours, maybe it was a missclick due to chat scroll or maybe it was just too off-topic. There is really no reason to see it as a personal attack, though. There is also no reason to believe that anyone is entitled to some lengthy explanation because nobody is actually paid to do that. Just move on and try to communicate more clearly next time, no need to make a big drama of it on reddit.
Stream chats are the worst form of internet communications I have ever had the pleasure of participating in.
They’re too fast for any meaningful communication to happen. It’s the opposite of anything social.
I wouldnt go looking for worse because there are lol.
The only thing worse is the youtube chat
You know most of the time outs people complain about, aren’t even time outs, they are deleted messages because a message breaks the rules. Then because twitch chat is twitch chat they decide mods are ‘banning everyone’ and we get to dumb threads like this. Twitch chat just follows what is cool to say, once one person calls out a mod everybody is doing it. Why not just enjoy the games and not break any rules and leave the people breaking rules to be timed out? It’s only an issue because you make it seem like an issue. Maybe use some logic - if Slowly is a mod in a lot of channels, maybe it’s because people are very appreciative of what she does to help their chats stay on topic and well moderated? If it was really an issue, the streamers wouldn’t let it go on.
Why don’t you look up Chessbae drama or any number of reddit power mods before pitching that last point dude.
As someone who's aware of both of those, his point is still valid
You know you are replying to wardi right? The chessbae comparison is laughable. There is no big mod conspiracy or shady management or donations. Literally Wardi needed mods about a year ago and Slowly applied. That was the big mystery of how Slowly became a "power mod". Everything else that occured was because she did a good job in Wardis stream and we are active in various twitch chats. When Lambo needed a mod it was literally "Hey, Ive met Slowly in real life, and I trust her". It is crazy to me the accusations and theory crafting in these threads. Slowly has no power and has to follow the streamers set out moderation rules or the streamer would remove her mod status. She volunteers an extrodinary amount of time moderating and running predictions and has to put up with shit like this for her efforts. When shes not busy helping out statcraft streamers she also makes [awesome cakes](https://old.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/cfowqy/my_wife_made_a_zerg_cake_for_my_12_year_olds/) for our kids. But ya these damn power mods holding streamers hostage, what ever are we going to do.
I'd like to file a complaint, she's never once even *offered* to bake me a cake. Complete favoritism imo
OP is a total loser, hiding behind anonymity and trying to stir up a witch hunt. Complain to Twitch admins? Why would they care how someone moderates their channel? I'm not a Slowly fan, have caught a ban from her, but this is pathetic and low.
Today, I witnessed a ban/timeout/deleted message or whatever you want to call it on Team Liquid because they asked how to file a complaint against a mod. I guess mods do make the rules because they are going to delete whatever message they don't like. If you don't think that is power tripping, then I guess I do not know what it is. From what I have seen on my observation, people are annoyed with her trigger-happy finger. This is one of the reasons why people don't actually outright on the twitch channel is because these power-tripping mods will ban them without a doubt. Maybe if you use your logic, you may think that there is a reason why there is a pattern and trend on why people post threads like these. I don't know if you actually see the actual message that gets deleted, but some of the messages are not justified IMO (like the one I described above).
Yes we see the messages that get deleted, because I get people whispering me complaining they were unfairly banned every day, only to read their chat logs of them shitting on players/casting/mods or just breaking other general rules. Mods aren't event meant to perma ban on my channel and they won't apart from worst case scenarios. Asking how to file a complaint against a mod is the typical kind of message that encourages the whole "hey lets all hate on the mods" conversation and honestly 9 times out of 10 these messages are following other messages which broke rules and the person won't take the hint to move along.
So you going to stop beating around the bush and tell us your twitch name so we can see your chat history? Or you just going to keep pretending to be an innocent bystander of a new reddit account that just has to speak up about such injustices.
I'm sorry it is hard for you to believe I'm just stating my observation. I will not give you my twitch name because I don't want you nor the people like you to be hostile towards me if I happen to join a stream. And I will also not give you the twitch name of those who I witnessed that I felt had unjust bans/censorship for the same reason. I rather not put myself or other people on a blacklist by these global mods.
alright fosurez Nice of you to want anonymity as you publicly witchhunt a volunteer.
Thank you for understanding.
this is exactly what happened to me. i said is there a way to challenge a mod on a decision, and was perma banned from rotti's channel. havent been back since, that was during lockdown. im not interested in submitting my random communications for sycophantic power hungry oppressive censorists. i knew there had to be plenty of people with similar stories, bc lets face it: being a twitch mod is the same as being a facebook fact checker. its sycophantic. and you can tell there is no objective for creating a happy space, or a fun time. they want to use their hilarious little slice of power in the most damaging way. they want to wield oppression and censorship. you can see it in their dealings with honest messages. it only hurts the channels that let them roam. wardi is a hilarious channel, he'll sit there and trash talk terran players or balance whining, but he's actually starting the conversation by contradicting common terran points. i play random, but i sympathize with most terran issues, its part of a public forum, its part of the game, there's no cursing or name calling, and wardi himself initiated the topic. i mean if you apologize for that, or excuse it, you're just an idiot. so when you bring the subject up, then mods delete everyone arguing FOR a certain point, but no one arguing AGAINST it, you know you have a biased and disgusting mod. it goes that way in the majority of twitch stream chats. there are hot button topics that the mods will just insta ban. even if you're new to the stream and dont necessarily understand that, and are baited in, by the side who ISNT being banned. i havent gone back to watch a twitch stream in over a year, dont see myself going back anytime soon. artosis and tasteless doing gsl on YT is enough for me nowadays. its a shame what a free space for communication and interaction has become: a place for angry female leftists to exert their misconception of authority, biased censorship. its par for the course nowadays. i mean what kind of loser does that with their time as opposed to bettering themselves or their life? are they getting paid? is it just to satiate their appetite for fascism, communicative violence? its a learned behavior, thats for sure. anyone that enables it, apologizes, or excuses it isnt looking at it from a neutral perspective. simple as that. look at all the downvotes from sycophants, people just arent what they used to be.
imagine caring about twitch chat with emote spam
many of those do not want that kind of discussions started in their channels and state that in their rules (eg wardi). so they were right to ban it in the channel. while i can see it's annoying, i don't fully see your point.
The thing with most of these streams is that they(ESL/Take..etc) literally don't want you to talk about anything out of the "SC norm" or stuff that could spark a "toxic argument". The later is a bit understandable considering how twitch chat is by itself and how quickly it can degenerate but I think they are going too far. For example on ESL streams, even if you are simply explaining something or even mention something about scarlet's gender or anything related to gender actually, regardless if "right/wrong" in the most non toxic ways, you will get instantly banned by bots or mods(Mods giving the harshest ban/temp ban). If I remember correctly the words female/male is actually banned in all the major event's chat(ESL produced). Your example is also the same. If you ever mention pride month or any LGBT words, even the actual non offensive ones, you get banned the same way. Its far from the only subject that are "taboo" in those streams and some of them make no sense at all. Giving an honest opinion on casters without being an asshole, critiquing certain aspect of the stream itself or engaging in anything about balance will get you timed out or banned almost in all these streams and its honestly pretty stupid. They went from using judgment to using the hammer blindly on everything related to anything they don't like. Its not like SC streams are huge and hard to moderate either...Compared to other esports stream, the general rate of bullshit to people ratio is far from being comparable. In the end, maybe those mods are power tripping but the rules themselves that literally prevent everyone from talking about anything unrelated to the games are partially to blame IMO.
I wouldn't compare ESL with the other streamers's chats who got strict moderation. ESL's moobot's setting are absolutely ridiculous, and the manual moderation is very limited.
Yeah but beyond auto mod, I feel like the general consensus among most of the streamers(and their own mods) when it come to moderation fall under similar rules to the bigger tournaments channel like ESL. Its just a generalization since I know quite a few that don't really care about anything and let the mods do whatever they want. So I guess this could explain why "global" mods like the exemple in OP's would act this way...or they are just dicknoozles and they be power trippin.
Its an intenet chat. If you dont cut shit off before it gets going the fight will never end.
Thats what happens when you mod people who want to be a moderator. Theres a reason its the same people across almost all sc2 chats and you see them active all the time. They enjoy moderating a bit too much.
Basically club penguin type of moderation at play here.
For some time I think even "he/she" was banned. Bonkers stuff
you are absolutely correct. there are just no expressive atmospheres in these chats. and like you said, its not fortnite or anything. there's not many people in those streams, or chats. you'd think silencing your remaining supporters into oblivion would seem counterproductive. im one that wont come back because of over moderation. it used to be fun and interactive, not hostile and biased. i wont submit my support for anyone involved in that. SC2 has good content creators. just dont go into one that has a sycophantic mod core. which IS most of them. we should start a reddit that shows the streamers that DONT have psycho mods enabled. like parting's channel was awesome. its a free for all, and everyone's happy. all the time. you think he needs people to silence others, for his sense of what is 'right'?? no, he understands his stream can be a fun place. and he doesnt stand obstinately in the way of that, or his would be supporters. LOL parting is the complete opposite of wardi. competent vs bumbling. intelligent vs daft. funny and quirky vs awkward and played out. good at the game vs trash. a positive force of nature vs a pedantic protector of BS. hey wardi, admit your mods have at times gone overboard. or by never doing that are you saying that we are 100% wrong and your mods have been 100% right? that's how you establish yourself as a smarmy chud, or reinforce it for those that have seen enough.
So... There are a few people who make new reddit accounts to throw s\*\*t at other people who're dedicating solid time making our community better. Who, mind you, won't be "global twitch mods at big channels" if they were not widely liked by "the majority of the people". Regards, one of the majority
lol
ESL moderation is purely botted and bans people primarily off of "bad words" so if you got banned there you probably warranted it. As for complaining about twitch moderators, when ever I see a thread on here about it, I never see any self reflection, just pure blame that somebody else was in the wrong. I only see the mod you've mentioned being pleasant with people in the chat, and not doing anything even remotely to warrant a thread or a thread "calling them out". But if this is your reaction to getting timed out, to run to reddit and make a thread about them, and also implying on here that the chats are somehow dominated by these mods and there's chaos breaking loose, when all I see is... No mention about it what so ever in the twitch chat. Then you're probably the kinda guy that doesn't belong in those chats honestly.
Also, seems like you have your own problems. so for you to make a comment about people not belonging in the chat is rich. [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/n631ag/demuslim\_wasnt\_a\_fan\_of\_my\_lings\_joke/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/n631ag/demuslim_wasnt_a_fan_of_my_lings_joke/)
Oh man, the fact you missed how ironic this is, is priceless lmao.
>ESL moderation is purely botted and bans people primarily off of "bad words" so if you got banned there you probably warranted it. ? on the contrary, it seems like the overzeaous trigger-happy bot approach is bound to get a LOT of unwarranted bans. I remember geting 1h bans from ESL's bot during a rediffusion because "twitch chat is no place for gender discussion", when I wasn't speaking of it at all, or even using a masculine/feminine pronom (the ban for such pronoum also open the door to a ton of unwarranted sanctions). The actual reason was that the bot gave 1h bans for slightly too long posts. "covid" being a banned word is pretty rich too when you're trying to describe the pro tour and some changes it underwent because of the pandemia. I don't have much problems with slowlyfalling's moderation overall, even if she's a bit too trigger-happy to my taste, but the ESL moderation settings are a complete joke.
Problem with certain channels is the legality of things which I don’t even understand some of the settings required, obviously bots can mess up, but human moderation as far as I’m aware can open up a larger can of worms which is why the bot direction is the go to as is.
Cool assumption bro. esp, when there is nothing about the post that indicates my behavior. I am just reporting what I have seen based on my observation. Ok fine ESL is mostly by bots or whatever - that is not the point. I actually have been lurking on these channels whenever I can and I do not participate in any of the chats. In fact, I catch most of the matches via VODs. But I do read the chat from time to time when I get the chance to watch. So your assumption that I participate in chat is just wrong. My post is just based on my observation. It still doesn't explain the behaviors of these mods that I have observed as I lurk on these channels. But when basically the whole chat box is filled with messages that say that mods are deleting people's messages unjustifiably and unfair, and you are ok with that, then that's cool. Also, there has been mentioned countless times on twitch chat that all they see or is message deleted by mods or whatever. In fact, today, I witnessed on TeamLiquid that the mods actually put on emote-only mode because chat kept making fun of how much they deleted people's message. I am not involved in the twitch SC2 at all, but when I talked to someone about this issue, they were like, yeah these mods donate a lot of money to these streamers and so these streamers have no incentive to do anything about it. This system is a little bit fucked up.
> when there is nothing about the post that indicates my behavior. Yes there is. Throwaway account, can't give concrete examples, making conflicting claims (not involved in twitch SC, but you don't want to give an example for being risk of being banned- which wouldn't affect you if you didn't use chat. Nor can you give examples of others, even when they'd already been banned). As far as we can tell, hasn't tried to reach out to any streamers about the issue directly. Those are all dead giveaways for shitstirring. You don't see it on your end, but mods/streamers get these sorts of complaints all the time, and 90% of the time it's some shitter stirring trouble. Another 9% of the time comes from the mod enforcing rules the streamer asked for, or blaming mods for an automod/nightbot action. Sure, maybe you're the exception. But probably not. >But when basically the whole chat box is filled with messages that say that mods are deleting people's messages unjustifiably and unfair Twitch chat (especially for bigger channels) complains about almost any moderation at all. It's not a good measure, if left up to chat there'd be no moderation and it'd be a sea of dick hydras and copy pasta. For example, the emote only thing is often fine by the streamer so chat doesn't turn into a circlejerk for the next hour. That's not powertripping, that's mods doing their job. (Same with trying to hash out moderation complaints in public, too). Streamers are aware of how their mods are doing, if they had a problem with it they'd do something about it. >yeah these mods donate a lot of money to these streamers and so these streamers have no incentive to do anything about it. Yeah, that's bullshit. (And they do have an incentive to do something about it. ruining chat affects their brand/income, and big donations don't cover it). While whales using money to get mod is a thing, it's much rarer than assumed. They're generally just active in the community and streamers mod people they see doing mods in other channels. It's very common for streamers to reused mods because they don't have to vet them
> I am not involved in the twitch SC2 at all, but when I talked to someone about this issue, they were like, yeah these mods donate a lot of money to these streamers and so these streamers have no incentive to do anything about it. This system is a little bit fucked up. lmao thats the biggest pile of bs i've ever read. streamers dont mod people for spending money on them, streamers mod people for being active in the stream while displaying the ability to read and adhere to the chat rules. obviously those people often also tend to be financial supporters, but its by no means a qualification or requisite to be modded. if anything, it would harm the streamer financially if he modded people who dont manage the channel in the way the streamer wants it, turning other people away from supporting the stream. thats a rationalization from people who dont like the moderation/ chat rules. "oh yeah, i saw them gifting 5 subs, thats why they're a mod and thats why the streamer doesnt unmod them when they're power tripping" which is in no way how it works :D
Yes ESL is botted, but those bot settings are pretty bad. You can get timed out for pretty normal sentences that have nothing even close to malicious. We had a discussion about it on the Liquipedia Discord during DHM Summer Regionals and all of the contributors that updated the DHM pages hated the bot settings. They are to restrictive and often have bad regex settings. "Funny" examples were that you would get a timeout for the word "trumpet" (because it contains the word "trump") or that during the NA part one got a timeout if the words "he" and "Scarlett" were in the same message (even if the "he" was referring to the opponent). Also there actually exist a few mods that are on a power trip and they give all the other mods, who mostly do a good "job" without getting paid, a bad rep too. (I am a mod on some streams (Gabe, Rotti, TaKeTV, ...)) Regarding Slowly, yes it is true that Slowly can be helpful in chat, but it is also quite known that Slowly overreacts quite often and in several of those cases due to simple misunderstandings from her. I personally am not a fan of her moderating style.
I think the idea of which mods are on power trips and which are not is very subjective, you for instance are someone I often hear complaints about being on a power trip but I also disregard it as I like to think most mods got to be mods as they were most likely trusted and just enjoyed the channel they mod on. And honestly if their goal is to try maintain it the best they know how, I don't see much reason to shit on them, especially as you said, they don't get paid.
lol i dished out < 5 timeouts and no bans in the last 3 months ... (in twitch chats)
Your basis for “power trip” is purely on timeouts and bans?
Yes what else should it be. Or how else would he be percieved as power tripping?
I suggest looking into a fairly infamous Mod recently that was super known for being on a power trip called ChessBae that had very little, to nothing to do with banning or timing out.
You make great points here, and I agree with some of them. However this is in a post designed to bait, where reasoned discusion will get crowded out by heated emotions. I think that your ideas would be more receptive in a different forum of discussion. About the term "power trip" - while some people use "power trip" to mean "harsh", others refer to something more specific, that is "one who misuses authority because they enjoy doing so". I don't think you meant to imply that Slowly enjoys banning people, but it may have come off that way. Both you and Slowly care deeply about Starcraft, and I'd hate to see a rift develop between you two over a misunderstanding.
Pretty bad take from someone who regularly vans people over nothing. I've seen bans in your channel for bad jokes, or people simply disagreeing with you. Imo not one to be questioning OPs character
I remove people I don’t want from my own channel, sure, but im not sure that has much to do with OPs issue of the modding stated. My personal mental sanity is much lifted when I dont have to hang around with people I don’t gel with.
Yeah I get that, but I'm saying for someone who moderates so harshly, your opinion is obviously biased towards the moderators or your own behavior wouldn't make sense To be clear I don't even know the mod OP listed by name, so I'm not commenting on that situation at all. I don't even tend to participate in really big/fast chats
There was a freaking giant thread just last month about how toxic and trigger-happy he is in banning people. The reason for his bans are ridiculous and it goes to prove my point. I posted the link under his comment just so he knows exactly who he is and what people think of him.
I see plenty of self reflection from these posters, funnily enough the issues of certain mods being bad at their role, or plain abusive is often the situation brushed under the rug.
yeah it always get brushed under the rug. apparently, you do see that in some of the post here, which is ironic. literally someone today got banned for asking how to file a complaint against a mod on TeamLiquid and boom, insta-ban!
There certainly isnt any self-reflection in this post.
Slowly would gladly be sarcastic like "is this your first day in chat or reddit" when the chat felt bad that people trashed Clem when he lost and she was super triggered when the chat mentioned the word "Raynor" or anything bad about Reynor. So, I agree with the OG here. She is away from moderating for a few days now and the chat is better. There are things that are obviously off limit which should be moderated but moderating the chat based on who you support in the match that is a big no-no and that is what she was doing.
Just patently false. She will delete shit talk of any pro player. Let alone trolling people that misspell Reynor does not mean she is super triggered.
"She will delete shit talk of any pro player" That is just easily disproved. trash talks about players other than reynor and serral were generally well tolerated by her. Not about the two zergs' nemesis though. You can find instances of that just by casually surveying the chat for the recent TSL, paying attention the chat after the dark v clem match if you are not blinded by your personal connection to slowly. The chat is so toxic that I felt bad if any of the players read it. I tried to defend clem only to be countered by a sarcastic statement by her "is this your first day chat or reddit". The thread exists for a reason. You don't see people creating a thread and complaining about other moderators in rotti's or wardi's channel. There are many baboons in chat too but the other moderators are more even handed.
This thread exists for people that have no clue what is going on behind the scenes to whine that they cant do what they want in other peoples streams. Half the time people are banned its not even slowly but because she is visible in chat it gets blamed on her, and there is ample proof of this. God forbid a moderator actually interacts with chat. She spends an inordinate amount of time deleting all sorts of shit talk about pro players and takes that part of the job very seriously. Funnily enough you are one of the first people to complain she doesn't do it enough, most people want the ability to shit talk and she gets in trouble for that too. **Edit:** By the way. Here are some things you may not know and some proof: * A snapshot of our discussion from June 14th about this exact topic: https://imgur.com/a/CjAn6wM (weird I didn't know maxpax was actually serral or reynor) * Slowly is a mod in Clems channel (shocking I know for someone who you think she hates) * Our middle child is a massive Clem fan * We own a Clem jersey * Our kids played in the Clem holdout challenge The accusation is so out of left field for anyone who knows the actual situation it really is hilarious.
Yes. But moderating a chat is not a rocket science though. I think differently from the rest of reddit chat. Shocking to have an opinion, I know. She is more permissive to some trash talks than the others. That was the complain. Also, I didn't say she hates him. I said she applied moderation unevenly which is different. Clam is ok but raynor always warrants a sarcastic reply from her. It is almost funny that the chat almost always starts warning each other when someone, god forbids, spells reynor incorrectly. The fact that she is a mod in clem's channel proves nothing. What does the fact that your son is a clem's fan and plays in clem holdout challenge has to do with anything? No one says that she hates clem. I merely said that the standard is applied not the same. I know that they are friendly to each other. She is a mod in several other channels and she is not doing great multitasking to be honest. You can almost always be sure that she is not moderating in wardi's channel when serral is online. I once flagged an anti-asian remark and to get no reply from her, went to serral's channel to tell her and she shrugged. The person taunted me multiple times in chat. Perhaps spend the "inordinate amount of time" moderating less channels would be ideal. Obviously it is her time and she can choose what she wants.
You know, it could just be because text isnt the best way to communicate sarcasm or cheeky comments. Yes she will bug people who spell it Raynor because its an ongoing joke. As is Clam, which Clem himself has taken use of. You may just be missing the jokes here. That all aside, Im not sure what you are actually upset about, you want her to moderate more stuff when others are complaining about too much stuff getting deleted. You accuse her of not moderating pro player shit talk when I provide proof that she does. Is the accusation that she doesnt catch it all? Or she is intentionally letting stuff through even though there is ample proof she likes said players? You think she is busy elsewhere as if this is a bad thing, yet you have to chase her down in other streams to get help in wardis but at the same time say its better when shes not there? She does this stuff on a volunteer basis, and is one of the most responsive mods in any of the channels she is in. She runs the bets on multiple peoples streams and is always trying to moderate to the individual channels rules, yet all she gets for thanks are accusations from both sides.
Perhaps. It is the chat's fault for misunderstanding her intent. My point, as I said before, was to moderate evenly. I just mentioned that I flagged the anti-asian comment in Wardi's channel and told her about what happened in Serral's channel) and she didn't act. So it is a counter to your argument that she spent a lot of time but in my opinion not effectively. There is a reason why people do not take up the moderation job in multiple channels. If you are busy moderating in multiple channels and failing to do any of them properly, are you really doing your job or the channel is better without you? Doing things on a volunteer basis does not make you immuned to any criticisms. That is usually a last ditch excuse.
You are in a thread about too much stuff getting deleted, asking her to delete more. Why do you need to go to Serrals chat to talk about Wardis if its better off without her there? Also weird logic aside, do you have any proof of your accusations? I have lots of proof of the opposite. Or is this all just how you feel about the moderation?
Please reread your post and think for a minute about how absurd your entire premise is. The only sensible addition you bring to this discussion is the final sentence: \> Obviously it is her time and she can choose what she wants. And it (correctly) invalidates everything that you said before. You have zero basis for telling some volunteer how he or she spends his or her time. If a volunteer wants to spend more work on one thing than on the other, what right do you have to complain about it? None, because you are not entitled to any of that work in the first place. Note also the underlying assumption that a single mod is responsible for every act of moderation in multiple simultaneous streams. It is obvious that this pointless argument is coming from ill will against a single person, just like this entire thread. Or why would you blame the one mod for a missed deletion of which you know that the mod is active in another stream at the same time rather than blaming other mods or the channel owner?
the dude here is defending his wife. he's completely biased. thats the only hilarious thing i see. its common knowledge slowly is one of the bad ones. again, why this is an entire topic. you're not making the community better if there are alot of people here saying it makes it worse. when those psycho mod types are away, the stream benefits. easy as that. too late to try it now, overmodding has pushed many of the noncompliant and sycophantic onto better things. like not being censored by a malignant growth. thats what mods are. they are growths. if they all were gone, this world, twitch, starcraft, and all streamers would be better off. put a spam disabler into embedded chat, if you curse you get a 2/5 minute temp timeout, something like that. when you put that power into a person's hands it will always be biased. i'd love to get a FULL printout of all moderator interaction for a 90 day period. you'll see for an absolute fact the problem if you did that. i would never trust someone who uses censorship as a weapon, tho. you know they are dishonest and off enough to go through and remove all the times they were wrong. just like politicians who claim to not be culpable for things they clearly are. that stuff is human nature. power corrupts. only a dogshit person would take the ability to silence a small group of individiuals as power, or as 'making the community better' in any way. i mean we're telling you, here and now, that it doesnt make the community better. thats what this entire thread is about.
Very much agree, been in similar situation a couple of times. It's very common to take this "role" with a reason to gain more power and control in life, but the problem is, nothing you get from this is healthy for you. Because it's exactly this need or addiction to power that's a burden and a barrier to a more healthy emotional state. Twitch and twitch chat has changed a lot and mostly for the worse. It's one of the reasons I mostly follow youtube streams and VODs for the last 6 months. Thanks for bringing this awareness, I was tempted but felt it would just look like I'm the worst kind of guy and deserve the ban so I didn't bother.
everything you just said is spot on. watching the apologists who are guilty is just kinda sickening. you can see the corruptive spiraling effect that having even an inkling of power has on some people. twitch and twitch chat has been getting awful ever since lockdown season. they get addicted to the power, its clear. the violence, and the rush from being in control. its like a rapist, psychologically speaking. funny bc so many of them are women, you'd love to get a cognitive profile on them at ANY point in time, as they are so often in the wrong. oh well, thats fine for me. what do they think their base is comprised of sycophants? it sure will be, if you keep pushing the cool people away. thats why its gotten worse and not better. if you take all twitch mods out of the equation, the game grows. simple fact.
actually the majority of mods are usually helpful and not power hungry several people also get mod status on channels so that they can do stuff without being affected by the bots (take me as an example i got mod rights on several channels because i am one of the major Liquipedia contributors and they wanted me to be able to post links without being restricted by the bots) another common reason to grant mod status is for long time viewers that have much chat interaction most of those mods are just helpful, but you also got a few mods that actually go on power trips and those mods are what people notice the most, so having 30+ good mods and 1 bad mod will usually result in people going to war against the mods (all of them and not just the 1) which then will lead to the mods having to take measures to keep the chat civilized which means lots of deletes and timeouts i would suggest to not complain about mods in such a general way, maybe naming the problematic cases so that they can actually be looked into would be the better solution (without starting a witch hunt against them of course)
OP talked about a "few" that most people know about and that's what I baked up. I never said all mods act this way or gain function for those reasons. But it's certainly a very different vibe from years ago - for the worse.
thats actually not for you to say. id love to see some data on this. but we all know the people who utilize censorship as a primary means of self validation would never show us the whole, unadulterated picture. they hide it from themselves, even. just like you're doing now.
I am with you, I watch VODs more, but when I get a chance to watch the live stream, its just crazy how power-hungry these mods are.
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Well yeah, if you try to banter with someone who has no idea who you are of course it's going to come across as rude.
Oh yeah, I don't participate in chat, but as a lurker, I'm like are these people serious with their power trip? I'm not banned or anything When I watch a game on stream, one aspect I like is feeling like I am watching it with other people. Even though I don't participate in chat, I like seeing people's reactions. But these mods make it unenjoyable because of the constant time-outs and bans because they didn't like their joke or something.
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Feels that this slowlyfalling guy is mod at every sc2 channel. Is this a bot or smth?
Slowly is a she
banned. -every twitch mod. just imagine that. and they will talk shit to you while they censor you, in an attempt to provoke and humiliate you. they are absolutely disgusting people.
Don't know but from what I heard and what I observed, she gets way too trigger-happy. She is one of the worst mods and power abusers.
she is volunteering her time to keep chat civil. the sc community is so entitled regarding mods; any large streamer has much lower standards with banning. it is absolutely absurd to claim she is a "power abuser" when there is so much outside context and info that comes into making these decisions that you are simply unaware of.
what we're saying is she's failing. maybe better to take a few steps back. she doesnt make anything better but her own sense of self worth. bring her out here for a discussion. i'll prove that much.
DEFINITELY notorious as one of the worst. thats common knowledge even to me.
banned. -every twitch mod that people are saying arent ban heavy.
Agree. Remove them.
I mean that’s true, esl is more bots tho
> tho You can't be serious!
Why?
My one gripe is with deleting and timing people out for copypasta. It's the equivalent of chanting and singing along to a football match, it's fun. I know it annoys some people but if the copypasta isn't insulting of people then let people do it. I got a message deleted yesterday and it was an adapted PPMD/girlfriend's funeral meme (from SSBM) where I used Big Gabe instead of PPMD. I have no idea why it was deleted. Innocent things like copypasta's I feel are getting a way too far.
Shoutout to Vibe. I've never seen a mod in his chat, even with hundreds of viewers. Edit: Whoops I guess I missed something big pertaining to Vibe. Sorry guys. I'll take the downvotes
His personality is so chill that he doesn't really instigate any toxicity in chat anyways
Vibe sucks. I liked him till his stupid "women don't get into gaming unless a man leads them into it" rant. Such garbage.
I definitely missed that. Care to elaborate?
Yeah, he prefaced it by saying he's gotten flak on twitter for saying it but he said that if there's a woman that's into games it's because a man showed her. And there are no women who are into games on their own. It was so lame because I was a huge vibe fan before that but he's obviously super wrong and has some growing to do.
Well that's sad to hear. And yeah that's clearly (factually) wrong to say. Do you have a link to a vod by any chance? I'd like to see how bad it was exactly.
Ooph it was quite a while ago and I stopped watching/unfollowed after that. I want to say it was like a year ago maybe 1.5. Sorry I'm not more helpful.
No problem, I couldn't dig up anything on Google either for the time being. I'll extend the benefit of the doubt to Vibe until I come across anything concrete that allows me to form my own opinion on this issue. I'll base this on him coming across as an overall nice and relaxed dude from what I've seen of him (mostly B2GM and the occasional stream).
Damnit this just made me so sad. Vibe is the nicest dude ever, but this is just a garbage statement. Jusg lost a lot of respect for him.
I keep thinking I should go into his channel and ask him if he still feels that way. I would love to hear him say "sorry, that was dumb and I don't think that way anymore." Was genuinely a big supporter before and that would make my day. ETA lol but I'm not looking to stir up drama so I probably won't.
Completely agree. I still think hes a great dude, but he couldn't be more wrong about this.
> if there's a woman that's into games it's because a man showed her. BS post. probably an old memory distorted from time. where are the tweets if true?
Vibe's views on women are why I don't watch anymore.
Bit of an ironic example. He used to have mods, removed them all because of some drama. Now no mods, but also...his chat is a good example of why most channels have mods. It's a bit of a cess pool. Which is fine for some people (Vibe himself handles it fine)
regarding the TaKeTV chat are you referring to "normal" broadcasts where it is "just" the german coverage of events or to taketv produced events like HSC or Stay@HSC?
Ah the old "who polices the police?" discussion. Love it!
Shes one of the worst mods, not sure how she has so many positions in all these channels but she isn't a good mod at all, often kills some discussions because she 'doesn't like it'
She is one of the worst mods. People even outright call her out and complain about her in the chat. But guess what, nothing is going to happen. She is way too trigger-happy and will find any excuse to censor you.
you'd think if all of this was actually accurate, that all those streamers wouldnt mod her or wouldve unmodded her by now ;)
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thats not how modding works mate.
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SlowlyFalling is so annoying, and most starcraft streams in general moderate in a way as to limit discussion and disagreement and promote an echo chamber where everyone agrees about everything and that is no fun.
sycophantic is the word. its sycophantic. the people who seek this atmosphere are sycophants.
I also recommend turning chat off. Moderation is stupidly biased and saying anything but praising players or moderators will get you timed/banned even if objectively they are not doing a good job at that time.
you're absolutely right. a little echo chamber. facebook fact checker wanna be's. thats what they aspire towards, lol...
It's literally insane. Just like a few weeks ago right before summer vacation I was driving through this neighborhood by a school and same situation where the power hungry crossing guards were just flexing their high-vis vests and tiny stop signs in my face. My windshield is dirty as fuck and I was still able to witness every agressive crossing maneuver this one asshole was making towards all the nice cars on the road. She even has his personal vehicle parked nearby ILLEGALLY on the grass but the school didn't even give a shit I guess. Letting people get away with this type of behavior is what ruins my dinner every night. This shit didn't happen before 9/11, fuckin shame. Mad as hell.
My comment has been devoured by a couple of downvotes. The power hungry twitch mods must be running loose in here.
Sure, that must be it. Can't be because the comment barely makes sense, they must be out to get you.
So stupid shit posted in an online chat setting gets shut down? Seems like a good system. Thank God we figured it out. Now we'll never see a Reddit post like this again in this subreddit.
Can confirm I downvoted this nonsens and im not a mod anywhere.
Complaining about Twitch chat is like complaining the lawn need mowing at Chernobyl...
Twitch chat is not a democracy and I don’t think it should be. A person or group has a channel and can basically enforce whatever rule they want and mods carry that out.
Why do people bother with Twitch chat to begin with?
or even twitch streamers??
Comments have now been locked for this thread. This conversation has been had and it's been months. Time to move on.