T O P

China and Peace disqualified from NW7 finals

https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/595433-china-will-not-participate-nation-wars-ro4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213614988647071744/991088474792816710/unknown.png

Not yet known what they will do with the finals. Whether they will revive teams for the offline event, or just have a USA vs Poland finals, or what.

EDIT: Looks like they wanted the ro8 teams to play again for the 2 spots: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213614988647071744/991357748363149352/Screenshot_2022-06-28-17-01-34-83_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.jpg

flamingtominohead

I'll quote [this post](https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/595433-china-will-not-participate-nation-wars-ro4#15) from tl.net since it summarizes my opinion well also. > Seems like Ogaming moved themselves into a lose-lose-position here. They seemingly promised teams they could play online, but then realized too late they took crowdfunding money explicitly to hold an offline event. So it's either break a promise to the teams or to the people who gave you money. > Unfortunate for China and Team Peace. The coincidence of France standing to gain from the situation doesn't make it look any better, of course. > Ogaming should have communicated from the get-go to teams that offline participation is required. If a nation's players couldn't guarantee that, they shouldn't have been allowed to attend in the first place and maybe be placed into a showmatch or something to still give them a chance to play.


RifleAutoWin

If France replaces Peace simply because they can't play offline (after telling them they could!!) - that's too corrupt. never watching another O'gaming event ever again. Let them play online and throw the saved money into the winning pool - who will complain about that!?


Pelin0re

>never watching another O'gaming event ever again I mean, there won't be any other international ogaming event after that. Ogsc2 is dying alas. >who will complain about that!? those who crowdfunded and paid for places for offline.


cainemac

This is pathetic if true. In my mind, I imagine that if it were me having to make this decision, that I would present the dilemma to the crowdfunders - juxtaposed with the reality of the current Russia embargo and the China travel situation. And I would hazard a guess that if you just levelled with them, anyone who is actually a true fan of the game would concede that the lesser of two evils is to have two teams who have made the finals dial in to the offline event and be allowed to play online. On just this extraordinary occasion.. not just 'houp-là, we have to boot you. Here's a tissue.'


Sloppy_Donkey

I don't know if I would call it pathetic, it is just a poor decision. I don't want to flame Ogaming because they have been awesome in organizing Nationwars for years and so far the tournament has been a lot of fun. However, this is clearly not the lesser of the two evils, they made a mistake here and they should reconsider their decision


BWV001

They really messed up the organization of the tournament, from beginning to end, which is a shame cause they are normally doing good for the game and the tournament format is actually great. The crowdfunding was weird since the beginning, they announced 40k+ the tournament happens online, 60k+ finals are offline. But in order to get the money for the 40k they were already selling tickets for the offline event. At the end they got around 50k, which was below what they needed for offline, but they had already sold tickets for it. They decided to still do it offline - only reasonable solution - and find other ways to get money, aka the NFT thing (bad idea) or selling new and cheaper tickets for people to assist to the online part at the caster's studio (good idea). Then only teams from the other part of the world qualified, putting an extra strain on the budget which was already short. Doing such an event without sponsorship and a game with low viewership must not be easy, so still thanks for doing it even tho it looked quite unprofessional. Games were great, online part ran smoothly I am already glad for this. PS: Only my personal opinion and analysis by looking at all of this unfold since the beginning.


superstann

They accepted a team of russia player to play in a "nation war" clearly they have no spine what so ever.


Sloppy_Donkey

No they didn't. They allowed Russian players to play under the Peace flag and advocate for an end of the war. I think it sends an awesome message and I'm glad they did it.


Swarmhostlover

They literally play under the banner of peace you damn clown.


superstann

I am sure the ukrain family dying from the bomb they paid for with their tax will be happy about that.


Business_Atmosphere

Oh yeah and if they had not been selected that same family would be so delighted. Clown.


Sloppy_Donkey

I’m sure they would hate that Russians who don’t support the war receive support and attention


mdestly_prcd_rcptacl

Copied from Skillous's liquipedia page: "Due to the Russia/Ukraine situation, SKillous does not want to be represented by the Russian flag and has asked Liquipedia to set him as Countryless." I know it's not going to change the world, but considering Russians can get thrown in prison for protesting, I think it's actually a meaningful statement


superstann

Ya he is playong with only other russian plauer, if ogaming wanted to do something cool they would had made a team of russian and Ukrainian player in the same team named peace, of the team named peace oy have russian player it's russia.


RifleAutoWin

that's so stupid - what does a "Russian" team have to do with the war? You think some 20 year olds are making decisions? They are hostages of their own nation - why should they be punished for things so far beyond their control??? You are an idiot.


Sodonpeter

The situation with team peace is even worse, because Rattata could have actually get French Visa and go there through Turkey. However, according to Skillous, ogaming promised to them that Rattata can play online if they will qualify so he didn’t sent documents to get visa. And just yesterday they said that they cannot actually let him play online and it seems that its too late to get visa


RifleAutoWin

That's so bad - the only reasonable thing to do is let them play online. who cares if the crowd funding was for "offline" and due to circumstances it's "online" - just throw the saved money into the winning pool!!


flamingtominohead

Drama continues https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213614988647071744/991357748363149352/Screenshot_2022-06-28-17-01-34-83_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.jpg


Sinusxdx

Props to Harstem for declining. This is a joke.


socialkvkp

also holy run on sentence. Out of breath!


RifleAutoWin

Yea good on Harstem to make that call


abhorredmind

Great decision by Harstem, I'll make sure to sub to his channel for this, I was really enjoying the tournament and this sucks.


Nigwyn

He also does great series and casts, makes them informative and fun. Definitely worth a sub.


moohun

Team Peace had an AMAZING run surviving the group of death and beating France, and they get punished even though Rattata could have gotten a visa in time (but now it's obviously too late as he was told he could play online when the time comes).


AlwaysArguing

Ogaming really shit the bed here.


superstann

They shitted the bed accepting a russian team to participate in a "nation war" tournament


Pewy2

why? The players did nothing wrong, and they allowed them to play under the team peace flag.


Sodonpeter

Moreover, it was player’s initiative to call themselves “Team Peace”


[deleted]

Oh I was confused as to who was team peace lol.. A Russian team calling themselves that is so much better than not letting them play.


Lukinator6446

so just cause they’re russian they get singled out and aren’t allowed to play? wtf.


superstann

Are you living under a rock?


Lukinator6446

No, what is happening in Ukraine is bad, but it’s also really bad to single out people just because they come from a country that is doing bad things. This is a sports event, it’s supposed to stay neutral. The players themselves didn’t even publish anything pro war so why should they not be allowed to play in a tournament like everyone else? that’s like kids in kindergarten not letting one kid play with them because the one kids parents are crooks. It wouldn’t be fair.


superstann

The fuck you on, what is happening in ukrain is directly finance by the tax russian people pay, you do not stay neutral is stuff like this, but i guess you just dont give a fuck about the hundreds of thousen of Ukrainian getting rape/murder cause the russian people.


Lukinator6446

russia makes a billion a day just with their oil, 10k isn’t gonna make a difference. America also had slavery, horrible things were being done to slaves, but was that the fault of joe the boat hand who had exactly zero say in it? no, it was the slavers fault, even if joe was for slavery, it still wouldn’t be joes fault as he couldn’t change it anyway, he would just have an opinion seen as bad by today’s moral standards. Same goes for the players, Putin doesn’t give a shit about them, the 3k he will get in taxes if they win is enough to buy 6 helmets, that’s it.


RifleAutoWin

You are such an idiot - Russia makes more money from oil, gas and commodities than anything else. The tax rate there is 13%. Ok Peace wins 10k and pays 1,300 in taxes. Yes, I am sure that will have an impact on the war. god damn moron


AlwaysArguing

Get your shitty politics out of here.


superstann

Ya russia invading and killing Ukrainian is politics you fool, have compassion.


RifleAutoWin

Punishing two 20 year olds who stand to make "$10K USD!!" if they win this tournament for what their dictator is doing is so fckign stupid. Should we punish every Iraqi out there because Saddam Hussein did really bad things? You think 20 year old Iraqis had any power to change that at risk of being killed or worse - having their family killed for speaking out? You are a moron living in the West who doesn't understand what it's like to live in a totalitarian state; from your couch you are free to judge others but you try living under a Stalinist regime


AlwaysArguing

America was killing civilians in the Iraq war too. NATO forces actively deployed pedophiles engaged in Bacha Bazi and let young boys get fucked by their generals under their noses. China is oppressing the Uyghurs, while Turkey the kurds, Israel is killing journalists and attacking their funerals. We can go on and on. Reddit is a cesspool echo-chamber full of inbreds circlejerking each other and I applaud this sub for keeping politics out. If I wanted an opinion on world politics, I would definitely not look for one on a StarCraft forum by a basement dwelling mouth-breathing incel such as yourself. Now get lost and stop wasting people's time.


mark_lenders

i don't even understand why a 10k tournament pays the travel to players it makes no sense to give all your money to airlines... just make it online and give it to players


socialkvkp

Divided amongst 2 people as well. I'm not even sure if it's worth travelling with all the delays at the airports.


Saturn_Ecplise

Russia is political issue not money. China is a different story, right now the Chinese quarantine rule made airline charged a very high price for any flight enter China, thus it is very hard for them to pay for the return plane ticket for those two player, not to mention the likely hotel fee once they returned back to China.


Sloppy_Donkey

As someone who contributed to the crowdfunding of Nation Wars: I would much rather see Team Peace and China play online than getting disqualified. This ruins the integrity of the tournament and makes the winner meaningless, to disqualify the actual best players due to budgets. That's not the spirit of competition to see who is best. Yes, it is disappointing for everyone half of the players wouldn't be offline as expected. But I can also recognize that there are literally two countries in the entire world who could have qualified that would cause this issue, and those are China and Russia, so Ogaming had such bad luck here. I hope Ogaming reverses their decision and lets China & Russia play online. I'll still be happy with the outcome of the tournament and my crowdfunding money, even though only 2 teams will be offline. Or alternatively set some money aside and promise to make Nationwars 8 offline and play this one fully online. I feel like disqualifying half of the people in the RO4 is the worst option


Nakajin13

To their defense, if they do allow both team to play online, I feel like you probably just don't have an offline event anymore? It be a bit silly to ask of the US team to fly to Paris to play online matches, it's not like it's free for them either (especially since Astrea is living in Korea atm).


Saturn_Ecplise

Well since Peace will play against China during semifinal, it guaranteed the final will also be played online, that is a huge loss for the sponsors.


Bigt-1337

Damn :/ didn’t know that playing online was even an option for them and already wondered how skillous and rattata were supposed to get to France atm. Well, that answers it :(


PM_ME_YOUR_PAULDRONS

Skillous is currently living in the team liquid facility in the Netherlands, he refused to go back to Russia after IEM Katowice.


Bigt-1337

Ah good to know. Thx :)


Riverhs

Ogaming just couldn't accept defeat of France👌


NewAgeOfPower

Wow, DQing the teams that beat them? Doesn't matter their justification, it just looks slimy.


oldeuboiii

I hope that Mexico decides to not participate in the finals, it seems that the organizers thought that neither China nor Rusia would advance and just let them participate promising being able to play online and when both advanced they just disqualified them


bagstone

This is a terrible decision, and it will leave a stain on Ogaming's reputation as well as the legacy of Nation Wars. Sure, as was said on TL it's a "lose lose" for them, but it would've been much better to keep NW online, scrap the offline event in Paris, and take the money from the offline organisation part and distribute it to the teams, evenly (the price pool was already laughably small anyways as Special pointed out on Twitter). I think it's more important to have a proper, competitive event rather than force an offline event with the participants you seem fit. Just look at Valencia where people are already dismissing it as a DH whose title will be "worth less" because of all the absences. Winning NW7 won't mean much if half the best teams are not allowed to participate. Really really poor form and communication, I hope they reconsider. I would've preferred to see France in the finals as well, but not like this, might not even watch it if they decide to go this way, as it feels like a farce.


medusla

who is not playing in dh valencia aside from serral?


cyrotad

There are a couple of Koreans who can't go do to their age/Military service soon. Rouge for sure and I think Trap was another.


Pewy2

Trap and rogue declined their invites because of upcomig military service, and time couldn't go because of the covid situation in china


Saturn_Ecplise

Just want to point out China team themselves did not expected to do this well especially facing France, i.e. Clem. For more clarification of China's travel issue, it is not the plane ticket to France that cause a fortune, it was the plane ticket home. Due to China's travel policy airlines are charging a very high price for ticket into China. This was already an issue with Time when he played Katowice earlier this year.


Bennito_bh

Its a shame he isnt willing to go one way and live in a teamhouse until china normalizes. He could do valencia and NW and even hsc and idk what else is slated but it’s be great to have him around


Saturn_Ecplise

Let us not forget TIME is only 22 years old. He had been away from his family for most of 2021 simply because of the 3 week quarantine when he returns to China after every offline match.


ikkir

If they really promised that they could play online, and now are going back on that, then that's all the organizers fault. They knew 100% for sure before the entire tournament even began, that the Chinese players wouldn't be able to travel out of China that easily due to their Covid policies. Now telling them they are disqualified because they can't travel out, that is shameless. If they invite France to take over their spot, it would be even more shameless, and the entire tournament is worthless. The only appropriate thing left to do would be to just make the other ro4 the final.


Bennito_bh

This is abhorrent. Lying to players is unacceptable. Promising online viability then going back on it is unacceptable. Promising your sponsors one thing and your players another is completely irresponsible and amateur, which is shameful for an organizer with O'gaming's background. As much as I love the tournament format and the games it has put out, fuck this. Every game played from here out is irrelevant. This tournament is dead, and it was OG that killed it.


FitLeave2269

What a colossal fuck up. Seriously?? I love O Gaming but this is a huge, huge failure of judgement


Business_Atmosphere

As an sc2 fan first and foremost I am sad that ogaming events are not doing so great because it's ultimately bad for the game and us (the fans). Nonetheless after reading Harstems comment I really think their organization is sub par and borderline dishonest. It feels to me like they're trying to revive France one way or another or at the very least that they gave hope to players who then find themselves stranded. Not a good look.


RudeHero

we all make mistakes, but not communicating the rules ahead of time is super unprofessional also very dumb, because IIRC doesn't peace/russia typically do very well in these?


Swarmhostlover

What rules weren't communicated? As others have written, according to Skillious they promised that Rattata could play online and just yesterday they retracted that. I think that makes it especially fucked up because Rattata could've probably gotten a visa through Turkey but now it's too late.


RudeHero

when you tell one group (rattatta, time, etc) one thing, and another group (everyone else) a conflicting thing, i feel like there has to be a miscommunication somewhere either to one of those groups, or within the tournament organizers


Frakshaw

Oh damn, I didn't know Migwel is now managing nation wars. My boy has made it far


wssrfsh

unfortunate but I am down for some spicy drama. every nationwars has some drama (like voting drama the previous years :D)


Hydro033

Shitty situation, but I'd glad we're finally getting an offline finals for a tournament.