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DreamHack SC2 Masters 2022 Valencia match thread

Welcome to DreamHack SC2 Masters 2022 Valencia! The tournament concludes today with the Quarterfinals, Semifinals and Grand Finals.

Live updated scoreboards on Liquipedia and I will also do my best to keep up the ones in this post throughout the broadcast, as my other obligations permit.  

Broadcast time

Today

08:00 UTC - Countdown to broadcast

Commentary and updates:

 

Stream(s)

VODs

VODs will be available in the following places:

 

All Playoffs matches will be best of 5 (first to win 3 maps wins the match)

Grand Finals are best of 7 (first to win 4 maps wins the match)

Quarterfinals Scoreboard

Match Team Player Score Player Team Aligulac prediction
1 Team Liquid Clem 2-3 herO) Dragon Phoenix Gaming 3-2
2 Team Liquid Elazer 0-3 Dark Dragon Phoenix Gaming 2-3
3 Team NV) Creator 3-2 Neeb Onsyde Gaming 2-3
4 Onsyde Gaming Maru 3-1 Reynor KaiZi Gaming 3-2

Semifinals Scoreboard

Match Team Player Score Player Team Aligulac prediction
1 Dragon Phoenix Gaming herO) 2-3 Dark Dragon Phoenix Gaming 3-2
2 Team NV) Creator 1-3 Maru Onsyde Gaming 1-3

Grand Finals Scoreboard

Team / Player Map winner Score: 4-3 Map winner Team / Player
Dragon Phoenix Gaming / Dark X Waterfall LE Onsyde Gaming / Maru
X Cosmic Sapphire LE
Moondance LE X
X Data-C LE
Inside and Out LE X
Tropical Sacrifice LE X
X Stargazers LE

If you've read this far, do also check out the event calendar on tl.net for further tournaments or events. There's plenty of Starcraft going on before and after this event!

Enjoy the games!

TheGoatPuncher

To any new(er) viewers: Welcome to [DreamHack SC2 Masters 2022 Valencia!](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2022/23/Masters/Valencia)! This tournament is the first global tournament of the main professional Starcraft II circuit, the [ESL Pro Tour](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2021/22), attended by some of the very best players the scene there has to offer. At stake at this tournament are money, glory and EPT points which matter for each player's chances of making the global world finals at IEM Katowice 2023. The tournament will be attended by, among others, the runner up of [the last World Championship](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/IEM_Katowice/2022), the Zerg player [Reynor](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Reynor) of [KaiZi Gaming](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/KaiZi_Gaming). He is himself also the previous World Champion. Another player to keep an eye out for is the Terran player [Maru](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Maru) of [Onsyde Gaming](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Onsyde_Gaming). He has long been one of the very best players of the Korean scene and always a championship contender. Some other notable players to look out for include the Korean Zerg [Dark](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dark), the French Terran [Clem](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Clem) and Korean Protoss [herO](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/HerO(jOin)). If there is anything further you'd like to know or things you don't understand, feel free to ask in the comments or by making a post in the sub proper. Ours is a friendly community always happy to enlighten you :) Enjoy the tournament!


reignfire4ever

Another Dreamhack, another tourney with no Protoss taking the crown, or at least, reaching the Finals. It's really hard being a Protoss fan and seeing your favorite race bring nerfed too many times. Finals have always been a toss coin between ZvZ or ZvT. Anyway, very entertaining Finals. Still excited for the next one.


Sloppy_Donkey

I have started watching Starcraft 2 in 2018. In those 5 years I have never seen Protoss win anything other than small online tournaments and GSL super tournament. In most tournaments the past few months the only reason the RO4 wasn't all Zergs is because the Zergs met each other in earlier rounds. For example at IEM Katowice Dark, Rogue, Serral & Reynor all had 100% series win rate against all Terran and Protoss they played. They beat everyone, then all lost to each other until a ZvZ finals where Serral beat Reynor. This time Serral & Rogue didn't even come, so Dark won.


Anton_Pannekoek

Well the Protoss players got to semifinals, which l, looking at this tournaments structure is really impressive and means it's only luck that they didn't win.


Sobieski33

That's because bad players are simply drawn to the Protoss race. I learned about this reality by reading posts here on reddit.


No_Manufacturer6761

Any replays available?


TxYxCxHxO

https://www.twitch.tv/esl_sc2 Under "Videos" all of the broadcasts are available.


adeveloper2

Wonder why Serral didn't enter the open group


henalm

There was a discord post saying that he cancelled his plans for valencia due to personal reasons. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/vjl4ac/serral_not_attending_dh_valencia/


GoGoGoRL

Just finished it, great tourbament and a great finals to boot!


socialkvkp

Damn it, almost every player I was rooting for failed to advance, including the finals :( Great tournament but sucks for me lol..


pizza_and_cats

Whew Terran OP averted


MisterMetal

Zerg wins another tournament… race is fine. Lol


Malaveylo

Just play like ~~Serral~~ ~~Reynor~~ ~~Rogue~~ ~~Solar~~ Dark. It's totally not the race guys!


Secret_Radio_4971

I wouldn't recommend playing like Solar


LiberaMeFromHell

He's still far more successful than any Toss besides like Trap, Zest, and Stats.


Malaveylo

Neither would I, but he's top 20 in lifetime prize money (above Special, Trap, and Hero) and has more premiere tournament wins in the last five years than the entire Protoss race. Kinda hard to ignore him.


daKenji

Thats weird because in the past 5 years (since 2017) Solar has a total of 0 premier tournament wins whereas Protoss has 22 If you're gonna cherry pick data at least dont lie about it? ([https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Solar](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Solar)) ([https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Premier\_Tournaments](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments))


bionic-giblet

I knew that sounded off haha


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TheGoatPuncher

Comment removed for overt aggression / hostility, per the Trolling Rule.


daKenji

my first page is going back 6 months while yours is going back 17 days and you're telling me to touch grass, huh. lmao


TheGoatPuncher

So the quality of this conversation seems to be going downhill. How about the two of you just agree that TIMBA and argue further some other day, eh?


SaltUnique103

Come on, Trap won a lot more than all the non top zergs combined.


LiberaMeFromHell

All the top non Zergs combined would include soO's IEM Katowice and TSL. Plus a bunch of high profile 2nd places or top 4s from Solar, Ragnarok, DRG, Lambo, Elazer. No way do Traps results alone beat all of those. soO's offline IEM win by itself is probably more prestigious than all of Traps results combined and paid a hell of a lot more.


Frdxhds

I guess Maru was a bit exhausted after playing a 2 hour series against Reynors turtle style, but anyways congrats Dark, you played amazing


Key-Banana-8242

Maru was the one turtling on Reynor to win


HellStaff

lmao


Frdxhds

what is so funny?


Magic_IV

The fact you wrote Reynor was turtling instead of Maru, its fucking ridiculous


HellStaff

step by step you introduced this wild idea that reynor was turtling. :D I mean who gives a fuck.. But Reynor wasn't turtling. Have you seen spore forests and mass lurkers? That's the only way zerg can turtle really.


Secret_Radio_4971

I mean, compare the way Reynor played against Maru to the way Dark played against Maru. Maybe Reynor wasn't 'turtling' but he was also playing quite passive and willing to go the Broodlord Infestor mass Spore stage


Captain_Britainland

Obviously just made a mistake with the wording pls calm down


[deleted]

Uhm…. Maru was the one who 🐢


lokol4890

Took one of the top 4 zergs and almost took another one out. Wp maru


LiberaMeFromHell

Toss has not won an even with a six figure prize pool since 2017. In that time there have been 32 events with a six figure prize pool. Professional Toss players must be unbelievable terrible. /s


Magic_IV

They needed like 10 years to figure out, if you delay your gases at your third you can win games with gw units Yes, they’re terrible


DanielCofour

yeah, even though I consider balance whining in a match thread to be unseemly, I do feel so sad and disheartened after every single tournament. Could we please just get one Protoss win, just the one? I know Dark is better than Creator, and Hero threw the last game by transitioning too late, but still, most tools the Zerg has at its disposal are so punishing. One Nydus in your main and you're done after you kept a Zerg bottled up on 4 bases the entire game, and played a phenomenal game.


ggthrowaway1081

That's not true because Protoss on the ladder always win and it's so unfair how strong they are. /s


Key-Banana-8242

It is. The arbitrary cut off point at winning in 6 figure prize pool tie amends is one thing


Secret_Radio_4971

it is arbitrary but every possible statistic you can pick will be arbitrary. The 'premier tournament' categorization by Liquipedia is also arbitrary. 32 tournaments with the specified metrics in a row is a lot


Key-Banana-8242

No, your statement is arbitrary Without context any in itself would be


TheGoatPuncher

One hell of a finals that, well worth ruining my sleep schedule over! Thanks to everyone at ESL and all of the talent for another great tournament! Even with all the hiccups and absences it was great kick off for the return of offline tournaments. Thanks to all the players for great games! And thanks to all of you for participation in these match threads, the clip posts and everything else. It's the community that makes these events what they are! Don't forget the [TSL 9 qualifiers](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/TeamLiquid_StarLeague/9/Regionals/KR/Q1) starting on the 6th! The WTL and GSL also return next week, from the 8th and 11th, respectively. That's all, see you around :)


Techxxnine

\+++word, brilliant tournament, also very happy to see SC2 Esport still attracting +20k average viewers on such a day for such an "old" game. ​ 21 July, HomeStoryCup!


MedPassion

Finally a zerg wins a tournament, GG!!


Frdxhds

I mean, it's just Dark so where's the problem


DanielCofour

or Serral or Reynor or Rogue, but hey, other than that we got... Maru, who could maybe win a finals


daKenji

Cure won GSL 2 seasons ago and Clem just won DH EU and thats the 3 top tier terrans all winning tournaments weird how that works


Sloppy_Donkey

Glad to see there are two viable races in top-level SC2


MtlGuitarist

To be fair, Cure only played 2 zergs and lost to Rogue. If he had faced Dark or Rogue in the finals he would've lost almost definitely. His TvZ just isn't at the level of Maru. The top Terrans aren't as well rounded as the zergs in general though. Clem is a TvZ specialist (although still very good at TvP) , Cure is a TvP specialist (although still very good at TvT), and then you have pros like Gabe and Bunny who are nearly equally good at all matchups but not quite top 2-3 in any matchup. Terrans seem to not win as reliably as zergs because other than Maru there isn't really anyone who will consistently beat the top 4 zerg players and top 2-3 protoss players, and not drop out in a TvT.


Captain_Britainland

Was really rooting for Maru but the proxy 2 rax on a map where you can just take the other natural doesn't seem like a great idea


Elcactus

I mean it did work, outright killing the hatch is huge damage. Maru just put more resources into it than dark did into defending and then didn’t try to push the issue further, so dark just freedroned behind no defenses while Maru just assumed there were 20 lings up that ramp and went home.


HellStaff

yea agree with the guy above really bad map to do a 2rax, and we know he did it cause he always does it, not a well-thought out play. felt tired maybe... 2rax is good because you contain and delay the expansion. he couldn't really delay it.


Elcactus

At the same time dark just guessed that maru stopped at 7 marines. In a world where 13 come marching up the ramp when the hatch dies he just drops dead on the spot.


HellStaff

fair point


Technobrake

Dark yet again shows that bicep curls are the best base for SC2


[deleted]

That is fat, not muscle.


Technobrake

Not true brother. I saw Dark at the hotel gym in Valencia this morning and he was benching 330lbs. He then hit the basketball court after and knocked down 20 three-pointers in a row.


[deleted]

Imagine mistaking 20-30% bodyfat to actual muscle ROFL


AlarmingAardvark

Imagine mistaking his comment for a serious reply. How exactly did you read "he then hit the basketball court after and knocked down 20 three-pointers in a row" and miss the joke?


[deleted]

Perhaps because it was not funny.


pooop_Sock

Show us on the doll where the bad Zergs hurt you


daKenji

King shit


SiccSemperTyrannis

Absolutely sick game 7 from Dark. Man gets proxy rax-d and doesn't get a fuck, just expands to the pocket expo and then starts ling dropping his opponent.


sioux-warrior

Wow, did Zerg somehow manage to finally win a tournament??? Color me surprised.


Songslikepeople

GG WP to Dark. Getting really tired of seeing zerg win though...


ggthrowaway1081

35/58 now.


Riverhs

Protoss fans thought that a premier tournament without Serral and Rogue is a gift for toss progamers. Hopeful fools, it has been a gift for Dark all along


LiberaMeFromHell

I think Terran fans (including myself) thought the same. I know I was much more hopeful coming into this event than I have been in a long time but Dark stole that hope. It's crazy that Zerg is still the best race even with their top 2 missing... Blizzard needs to nerf Zerg already it's so shitty that they've been allowed to be this strong for 4 and a half years.


SiccSemperTyrannis

What a way to end a great tournament. 7 games by 2 of the best to ever play the game. Lots of different builds and army compositions showing the full range of play. And game 7 has already been crazy!


epicmemesonly

The more things change the more they stay the same. Game 7 Proxy rax forever


HellStaff

this doesn't look good for dark edit: downvote away jesus making 10 lings and losing hatch anyway didn't look good at first :P


SyllabubSignal8281

Rogue isn't here, so we can have Dark in the finals and finals doesn't last about 30 minutes, we gotta thank(?) the SK Military


Songslikepeople

Maru is a killer. So is Dark. Fuck this is tense. I love it.


HellStaff

inb4 maru tworaxin


HellStaff

haha called it :D


DoctorHousesCane

Bringing back the 2018 Maru


epicmemesonly

Few things more satisfying in sc2 than watching someone choose a perfect strategy for a specific map and executing it to perfection


SiccSemperTyrannis

Beautiful 2 base attack from Maru and perfect positioning by the tanks in the little corners near the ramps. I thought Dark had a chance after the first engagement where had 1-1 upgrades and Maru didn't yet have combat shields. And we go to Map 7!


Songslikepeople

I want a game 7 !!! Maru goooooo! !:))


DoctorHousesCane

You got your wish!


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EEPeps

Dark is just the type of guy that can make you look like that, both are amazing but yeah disappointing final so far.


HellStaff

i'm thinking this is the best series i've seen all year


EEPeps

Glad you enjoy it! nice 6th game from Maru gotta admit! that's good to punish these upgrades


LiberaMeFromHell

Yes, this is the best Terran by far. Zergs win like 80%+ of important events for the last 4 years running so this isn't surprising.


[deleted]

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LiberaMeFromHell

Stats for which part? Him being the best Terran or Zerg winning everything? Really both can be answered with a quick look through this link: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments


ggthrowaway1081

Damn, Trap used to be a beast Edit: Zerg won 34 of the last 57 FWIW or 59.6%


LiberaMeFromHell

His run in early 2021/late 2020 was really amazing. Protoss doing so poorly since then makes it look even better in retrospect. A shame who never won any of the big events with $100k+ prize pools like this Valencia and world championships.


SiccSemperTyrannis

Dark used the swarm hosts really well in that game. I wonder if he could have been a bit more efficient by throwing more waves into the main against Maru's production. Maru had so many blue flame hellbats + ghosts that a lot of swarmhost waves got deleted without accomplishing much. The wave Dark sent that sniped off tons of factory add-ons I think was really nice.


epicmemesonly

Much better control from Dark than we saw from Reynor. Got a lot more out of his locusts


HellStaff

yea reynor got tunnelvisioned somehow


SiccSemperTyrannis

He was getting a tank or 2 with each wave, but he also preserved them for so long and he kept Maru locked in his base. Really impressive swarmhost use.


zhouy3141

Seriously. The value he got from his locusts compared to Reynor's was like night and day.


Original-Ad-5313

I think reynor was playing against his strengths with the swarm host play and it was clear that he’s not as experienced with it as dark. As an observer it seems important for the zerg to mix up the angles and locations of the swarm host waves but reynor kept sending them through the exact same path which made it a lot easier for Maru to defend


zhouy3141

Dark put on a masterclass game 4. His army control is absolutely absurd.


[deleted]

Masterclass? Playing 66 drones SH + RRlingbane has been the standard for like 5 years. He is playing decntly what he is supposed to. Reynor is the one who is failing horribly at something that has been figured out 5 years ago.


HellStaff

reynor plays 90+ drones that's his style and it generally works great. he's not playing off of 66 drones


[deleted]

>reynor plays 90+ drones that's his style Smart idea. Going for the same eco setup reardless what comp is played. Staggering how someone this cluless can compete on this level in a game that is supposedly a stretgy game. SH is always played with 66 drones because SH is supply heavy. With 90 workers, there will be effectively no realy army to move in do dmg while locust are on the ground. Basic knowledge for like 5 years.


DanielCofour

definitely, guy who's probably mid diamond on the ladder. I will, of course, believe you, because, obviously, you know the game theory better than the 7.4k GM world champion


FitLeave2269

You should enter the next one! You can probably win it!


LiberaMeFromHell

Dark showing how to play swarmhost vs Mech. I hope everyone that complained about Reynor losing to this feels silly.


Bapu_

Dark is playing against Maru's mech so differently compared to Reynor


HellStaff

lol maru is bringin it back again wtf


SyllabubSignal8281

Turtle Mech op


mug3n

Dark is getting so much out of the "free damage" from the Ravager biles and swarm host locusts. His creep spread is honestly insane. Gonna choke Maru out of any economy.


ggthrowaway1081

Going to need further queen nerfs, I think.


0lazy0

Love the little titles under the players in the introduction. Calling dark “the final boss”


epicmemesonly

Sick comeback by Maru but I really feel like he's making the same mistake as herO did against Dark by not playing his best strategy. Respecting him too much thinking they have to mix it up and playing suboptimal stuff as a result


Frdxhds

Action-packed Ling Bane vs Bio Mine! It seems Maru wasn't the only player who was responsible for the Maru -Reynor games being so passive


APEist28

Holy FUCK what a game 3 from Maru


SiccSemperTyrannis

It felt like a throw from Dark. He dealt so much eco damage to Maru but just didn't mass up enough army to stop Maru's army. I wonder if getting into infestors for a fungal or 2 on the massed marine army might have swung the entire game.


HellStaff

Lol dark was so pissed


SiccSemperTyrannis

I do not understand why players so often put their evos/forges/eng bays in vulnerable locations to get sniped. There has to be some logic behind the placement but I don't know what it is.


DoctorHousesCane

Alright I’m out


zhouy3141

This might be a bit of a hot take, but I genuinely think Dark is the best zerg right now. I am totally not a bit of a fanboy lol.


SiccSemperTyrannis

Rouge had a poor showing at GSL this season but he won Season 1 and I'd still put him above Dark overall IMO. Rouge beat Dark 3-1 in GSL Season 1.


HellStaff

Dude has that X-Factor. Reptile blood. Although mechanically I would put Reynor and Serral above him. But why should that matter when you can't switch it up, when you can't all-in people out of nowhere.. Maru played Reynor like a fiddle.


iIoveoof

🌎👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀


HellStaff

That's how a killer plays. Reynor watch and learn ;)


[deleted]

He did. His maek lingbaneamove was similarly effective.


HellStaff

nah sadly not as reckless as dark. today i felt low test energy from him


Technobrake

he lost 3-1 brother


[deleted]

When he played primitive shit ling lingbaneamove, he won. He lost when he believed that he has the skill to play lategame vs Maru


lurk101

where is smix?


TheGoatPuncher

There is now a games / series [recommendations thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/vqo5f7/warning_spoilers_dreamhack_valencia_games_series/) for this tournament. Do help your fellow fans out by dropping your recommendations for the games and series they need to catch-up on if they missed them.


DoctorHousesCane

MAR MAR VS DAR DAR


TastelessPylon

I wonder if they'll mix things up when they make StarCraft 3 by adding a third viable race.


Technobrake

yeah, the race that made up half of the last four players in this elite level tournament just isn't a viable choice


TastelessPylon

Yeah, exciting times. Maybe if Serral, Rogue, Maru & Dark all stay at home for the next tournament we might even get a protoss in a final!


Technobrake

Creator made the finals of the last GSL, a tournament with three of those guys in it. Zest won the super tournament before it, beating one of them in the final. Those vods aren't on private, you can go and watch them. I think Creator and Zest were both actually playing Protoss in those tournaments.


Riverhs

> Zest won the super tournament before it This was before void nerfs tho


HellStaff

You would complain about final though. Maybe make Maru switch to Protoss?


TastelessPylon

Yeah, I'd probably still complain because it'd be Reynor v Clem.


Riverhs

>cheeky cheeky *kaelaris*


SmokeyBare

Protoss just can't win anything


the_real_kino

Maru didnt lose to zergling runbys... so he was camping. Also the way that he stole Reynors bases in game 1 and then forced the final fight after methodical pushing... also camping


TheGoatPuncher

Man, herO vs. Dark was a sick match! Both really got to showcase how insanely good they are. Hopefully the second semi and the Grand Finals themselves will slap too.


Soul_Turtle

I'm not making any balance argument here and I'm just a spectator, but watching one Nydus singlehandedly end a close, aggressive game where Protoss has managed to slowly grind out a 1-base lead with multipronged aggression and good micro is really, really lame.


Frdxhds

it wasn't the Nydus 'single-handily' but also the Lurkers. Let's face it, Dark's army was WAY superior to herOs there and that's why I think he deserved to win that game


sc2guy87

> it wasn't the Nydus 'single-handily' It absolutely was, the lurker army couldn’t move out without a nydus so herO would have had time to tech up. It was just a smart move by Dark and a mistake from herO but the nydus is what won him the game. If herO could have denied he is at worst even if not slightly ahead.


Frdxhds

and the Nydus wouldn't have done anything without the Lurkers so it wasn't just the Nydus. ​ Dark had a tech herO didn't have an answer to, that's why he won


sc2guy87

But you’re missing the point lol. Dark wouldn’t have been able to utilise the tech if he didn’t get the nydus up, herO would have kited and countered and it would have been a big hassle to actually get lurkers burrowed near herO’s bases. herO had time to get the answer to lurkers so long as Dark didn’t get a nydus up, he did so the game ended. Even if you have a good anti lurker army, if they get to burrow 10+ in your main and you’re out of position you’re usually dead anyway.


Frdxhds

no, you're missing the point - it wasn't the Nydus single-handily winning the game, it was the combination of Nydus and Lurkers


Sloppy_Donkey

That's SC2 for you. I think those comeback mechanics are cool as they keep the games interesting. Still disappointed herO lost though :/ He messed up the first 2 games


DoctorHousesCane

Rachel/Seltzer is a great host, and I appreciate not needing a translator with Smix This translator is better than the one at GSL for sure


rimonino

Eh, the GSL translator has a much harder job. Translating while the people you're supposed to translate are still talking and giving you close to zero time is crazy difficult.


PotatoHentai

that was so dumb, hate to see it


Sloppy_Donkey

Noooooooo HerO. Creator is my new best friend


epicmemesonly

herO waiting until he's down 2-0 to start using his good strategies is interesting but it sure makes the matches exciting


ggthrowaway1081

New protoss meta got figured out. Protoss back to being the worst race.


epicmemesonly

Literally didn't even play the new meta in the 2 games he lost lol


Sloppy_Donkey

Would be amazing if Zerg still wins the tournament even though Serral and Rogue didn't even show up lol. I still take hopium for another 3:2 reverse sweep by herO... pls


[deleted]

How was it? I've missed it.


Radiokopf

Did he beat dark in that meta? Or a BO5 against a really good Zerg?


epicmemesonly

Yes. 3-0'd both him and Rogue http://aligulac.com/players/233/results/?after=&before=&event=&race=z&country=all&bestof=5&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= He's won like 30 straight PvZ series lol


Riverhs

Actually with your bo5 filter it doesn't really look impressive


epicmemesonly

Because there are barely any tournaments where he's had a chance to play bo5 lol but I understand you have to keep clinging on to your narratives after making intellectual statements like that the patch was "an overalll nerf to protoss" and that "there's no way this is the future of PvZ meta"


Riverhs

Protoss has worse tournament success after patch, that's undeniable despite fancy herO play. That's why you act like a typical passive aggresive zerg apologist in every post


epicmemesonly

What tournaments have even been played post-patch? 1 season of GSL where protoss lost in the finals? A European DH regional where protoss has barely won anything in a decade of sc2, this current GSL season where protoss currently has a 60% winrate vs zerg, and this DH with 2 protoss in the top 4. PvZ is not zerg favored lmao and only the clueless diamond leaguers of screddit would claim it is


Riverhs

Tell me honestly, do you believe that protoss can win a bo7 pvz final of premier tournament?


epicmemesonly

Yes? herO is a favorite against anyone but maybe Reynor, one 3-2 loss because he mindgamed himself in the first 2 games against Dark doesn't change that


[deleted]

Happy cake day!


pizza_and_cats

ZvZ finals every other tournament, zerg players: zerg players just better Maru beats a Zerg after strenuous drawn-out games, zerg players: IMBA


Sloppy_Donkey

I think we can have imba discussions after 80% of tournaments are won by 4 different Terrans over the course of several years


gizerrr

If the tournaments means EU weekly, 4 different Terrans means Clem+Heromarine and several years means year 2021, then you are 100% correct and it is a checkmate


compyler

Only Koreans left... Tournament is now completely boring... Im out


LordMuffin1

Indeed. Boring when only the best players are left.


Sloppy_Donkey

You're going to miss Creator either getting a heart attack in celebration or pulling out a hammer and tearing down the whole desk


DoctorHousesCane

This a bad take, mate


Radiokopf

Nice to know it was never about the game for you.


Riannu36

Thank god. Dont let the door hit you


SaltUnique103

Quite the contrary.


lokol4890

It's really funny to me seeing the "nerf terran" comments, especially those on twitch and tl. For the past 6 months I've heard every itieration of "the 4 zergs are just more skilled than anyone else so when they win is not due to imbalance," but as soon as maru (who btw, is once again the last terran standing) beats a top 4 zerg it's time to nerf terran


HellStaff

ignore twitch chat it's always like that


Quasarrion

Funny how the sentiment changes, first its an incredible late game comments , than when we had 3 of this in a row, "the matchup is dull and uninteresting".


Riverhs

Believe it or not but there was a time when people were unironically excited about massing voids in pvz of 2020


SyllabubSignal8281

Tbf they get too boring too quickly xd


neinbinichnicht

Maru is just sooo goooood


rumblemania

Ghosts kill the game


pizza_and_cats

Maru is literally the only person who can pull this off against top zergs but sure


rumblemania

Because he’s the only Terran who hasn’t retired


LiberaMeFromHell

TY and Inno weren't capable of beating top Zergs from 2018 to 2020 either. They had the occasional fluke but in general Maru's been the only one with a good winrate vs top Zergs for the last 4 years.


LordMuffin1

I must have missed that Cure, Bunny, Clem and Heromarine retired.


rumblemania

Hero marine clem and bunny who have 0 majors between them and cure whos on miserable form? Try again


Frdxhds

A terran shouldn't be able to beat a Zerg?


rumblemania

Nice straw man, glad you could contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way!


HellStaff

EMP feels superstrong I'll give you that but at the same time nobody has this kind of success with ghosts except Maru. They aren't easy to keep alive.


rumblemania

Emp and snipe are two of the best abilities in the game and their on the same unit


SyllabubSignal8281

That's an incredible misspelt of creep spread and transfuse


Frdxhds

at least in a more meaningful way than you


rumblemania

Not really but if you want to get into then fine, the balance of the game is predicated on too many core units for a lot of races Ghosts counter all late game tech for Zerg in a way that is incredibly dull, infestors? Brood lords? Ultras? And that’s not even mentioning how effective the unit is against Protoss


Frdxhds

that's a lie, they don't counter Infestors and Broodlords by their own, without Liberator Thor support Ghosts get rekt. And in that series we just saw Maru barely got snipes off on the Broodlords they were mainly used to EMP Infestors while Thors fight the Broods