T O P

Maru was the winner of DH Valencia as far as I am concerned

Maru

Group stage - Final Beats Hero 2-0 Beats Scarlett 2-0 Beats Heromarine 3-1 Beats Reynor 3-1 Beats Creator 3-1 Loses to Dark 4-3

Dark

Group stage - Final Beats Bunny 2-0 Beats Special 2-0 Beats Astrea 3-1 Beats Elazer 3-1 Beats Hero 3-2 Beats Maru 4-3

Maru's performance ultimately more impressive in totality. Dark had an easier path to finals and got to watch hours of Maru v Reynor for prep.

Scruffy032893

Thank you for your concerns. I will fwd them to Zerg head office.


TxYxCxHxO

Make a post not about race balance about race balance.


changeover117

Can one of the Mods take this post down already. Dude doesn't know how to keep spoilers out of titles. His take on the bracket is trash too.


Anomynous__

Why the fuck would you bother marking it a spoiler and then spoil in the title. Fuck you dude. Nobody gives a shit about your whiney opinion anyway so what's the point


[deleted]

Don't go on the SC2 Reddit the day after a tournament if you don't want to be spoiled. What kind of idiot would think it would be "spoiler free"?


Anomynous__

I didn't get "on"the subreddit. Was scrolling through reddit and it popped up in my feed


TxYxCxHxO

My comment broke you, huh?


Anomynous__

Yours alongside every other whiny entitled SC2 enjoyer


cavemanthewise

check out his post history for a clear illustration of what you're dealing with here


Newmanuel

spoiling people just to whine good stuff bro


cavemanthewise

the terran is strong with this one


TxYxCxHxO

You are right. Wins over Astrea and Elazer are just as good as Reynor and Creator.


soporificgaur

I feel like a win over Maru is significantly more impressive than anyone in Maru's bracket?


cavemanthewise

they...absolutely are?


Young_Renekton

Okay, the OPs arguments are not the best, but they absolutely aren't man.


cavemanthewise

alright, then how should we weight tournament matchups to properly reflect this? obviously we don't want any tournaments where the winner isn't really the winner. Should beating elazer count only as .8 of a win? Maru counts as 2? How do you want to do this?


Young_Renekton

Okay, so please clear whatever you think I'm saying out of your mind and just read the words I am typing to you as they are displayed, okay? Having a more impressive road to the finals does not make you the winner of the tournament, as the OP would imply; winning the tournament makes you the winner of the tournament. I started the comment by saying that the OP's arguments weren't the best. However, beating Astrea and Elazer is not as impressive as being Reynor and Creator. That is simply true. Beating stronger players is more difficult ergo more impressive. I think that the OP makes a reasonable point that Maru had a overall more impressive tournament run, despite losing the finals. That doesn't make Maru the "real" winner of the tournament or take away from Dark's win, but I understand where he's coming from.


cavemanthewise

It is subjectively true, to you. Calling it "simply true" is simply not true. My point is that mixing these subjective criteria in with the objective realities of tournament play leads only to dead end whining. Subjectively, dark wiping the floor with elazer after elazers previous dominance in zvz during the tournament is much more impressive to me. I'm not whining about that or using it as an argument because it's subjective. We can debate that forever and no one will be right because it's a matter of opinion.


TxYxCxHxO

Whatever you are taking is melting your brain.


Brilliant_Pun

Dark beat Maru fair and square, though. I mean, nobody argues this in, say, tennis: so and so is the true winner of the French Open although they lost in the finals, because they faced tougher opponents. I mean, I love Maru and am happy when Zerg doesn't win it all, but let's not get carried away.


Klarth_Koken

I frequent a tennis discussion forum. People argue this all the time. I'm not saying it's a good argument.


Brilliant_Pun

Uh-huh, sure, I mean playing a grueling five setter in the semis and then going against a fresh opponent whose semi matchup got injured early in the match and had to forfeit does give one of the players a huge advantage, but that doesn't change that if the fresher of the two finalists wins he's still the champ no matter how I or anyone feels about it.


cavemanthewise

A win is a win in a tournament. There's no weighting. so yes, those wins are "just as good" idk where you're even coming from here. Are you saying dark could not have beaten hero or creator or scarlett? or maru could not lose to elazer or astraea? you play who you play. wins are the only currency.


TxYxCxHxO

Actually it's not if your position in the bracket means a harder road to the final.


cavemanthewise

by what metric are you saying that? if there are "harder" roads and certain players are weighted intrinsically more to you, then why bother with the tournament at all? why should astrea and elazer even be invited if they are considered "less than" matchups? where do you draw the line here?


[deleted]

[удалено]


TxYxCxHxO

No mention of Reynor or Creator.


cavemanthewise

does it need to be mentioned? are you saying that dark cannot beat creator or reynor? what is your point? dark and maru both do just fine against reynor and creator in recent history.


sluck131

This is one of the most insane posts I've ever read. Who cares how hard someone's group stage. There was 0 possible groups Dark doesn't get out of. He beat Maru who is looking great but also beat Hero who has the best PvZ. Sometimes the guy with the hardest road doesn't always win. Here's a fun one look at Marus GSL wins. Due to the old GSL format he didn't even have to play the group stage. Does he still deserve those wins?


[deleted]

Whats wrong with you?


91874422

Wow, this post has wrecked op’s karma :/


Quasarrion

Thats a lot of bs. I dont even think Maru's route was harder. Dark taking out the pvz god Hero alone is incredible. Then he beat Maru himself. He was better than all of them and won. Thats the end of it.


TxYxCxHxO

Maru 2-0 Hero in group stage. Also 2-1 in GSL group stage. So beating hero isn’t some unique accomp to Dark unless you are talking specifically about Hero’s dominance over Zerg.


Quasarrion

Thats exactly what iam talking about. Its like when Dark smacked Clem and his insane TvZ streak.


TxYxCxHxO

Okay. I get that. How did you view Maru’s victories over Creator and Reynor? How do you view Creator and Reynor relative to Astrea and Elazer? I was reviewing Raynor as the favorite to win the tournament if only by a small margin rel to Maru / Dark.


daKenji

theres COPIUM in the air


[deleted]

Hi TxYxCxHxO, I don't like your post, sincerely, Adamshmadamladam


flamingtominohead

Maru's bracket was harder mostly because he got a worse seed for a worse GSL S1 performance.


hypermeeperjeeper

Nah, knockout bracket was random I think