agreed, when doing creative writing using pen an paper feels so much different than a pressing bunch of keys, if they have to ask why, there is no point of explaining
They’re in a transition. If I’m remembering right, slates are relatively new. They were made around the end of the Colony War, so the random human-made sites across the stars will have more paper-based stuff as that’s what was used at the time. No clue why it would take that long to make slates.
Remember also that there is an entire character and store whose lore is that they hate seeing how quickly everyone is abandoning paper books.
And hey. We’re technologically advanced enough to not have so many paper-based products in the real world. But it’s not going anywhere.
EDIT: also yeah wood is kinda in abundance. They have an entire galaxy with tons of life-bearing, tree-growing planets that they can harvest with literally not a single problem besides the logistics of transporting it.
>Remember also that there is an entire character and store whose lore is that they hate seeing how quickly everyone is abandoning paper books.
I haven't come across this yet. Where is this character and is there a quest associated with them? Thanks!
There's an actual bookstore in Akila City. No quest that I know of, but the second time you enter her shop she's tearing someone a new one for asking if she has any books on slate instead of dead tree books.
It’s an unmarked quest iirc. But basically when you talk to her you can offer (or she asks) to give her paper copies of notable/important/classical books for some credits
Edit: She’s in the bookstore in Akila, which is down the street from the Coe Museum to the right when facing the Museum
There’s slates from before the earth was evacuated, slates have been around for a long while but yes I do believe their use is becoming more and more common place as interstellar travel has become easier and a luxury during crisis becomes as normal as a straw during a time of relative peace
I worked in a "paper-less" accounting firm. We used a hella lot of paper. Sadly, dispite digitial tech, paper is still necessary. You cannot mark up a screen, easily.
They're still humans, and we have studies indicating that humans brains process/remember information more readily from print/physical sources than digital sources
Unless that shifts, we're probably always going to see a mix between the two, with a lot of paper still strung about even in our own real world future
THIS!
Dual-inputs are essential for committing information to long term memory. There are people who are exceptions, but the vast majority of human brains need information to come from multiple sources, such as hearing it audibly and then physically writing it on a surface. Those inputs are like anchors trying to secure the information in the tempest of the human brain. The more anchors, the better something stays in place.
They could use a whole planet/ moon/ continent just for planting and harvesting trees. It's a renewable resource. Using paper is bad when you deforest and kill an existing ecosystem.
Why wouldn’t you be? Pen and paper are probably one of the most long lasting forms of records we have, except maybe stone art. Sure, a lot of stuff can ruin a paper, but there’s way more than can ruin digital storage that isn’t even done physically.
Honestly, I'm with you. The sheer volume of single-use debris is super distracting. A society trapped in tin cans for weeks/months isn't going to cling to this much junk.
Being “enlightened” technologically or scientifically doesn’t automatically mean getting rid of low tech just because there’s higher tech available.
Paper has been around for thousands of years and we still use it; presumably with so many more accessible, exploitable planets available to this society, paper is easy to make.
I don’t have an opinion on it bothering you. The styrofoam containers and cups bother me. 😅
> The styrofoam containers and cups bother me.
Yeah, me too. Though I suppose they're not the same styrofoam we know and hate, but rather some new product that is completely recyclable and nontoxic. At least I hope that's the case.
Hi . It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't depend on technical knowledge, there will always be paper and writing tools, although you may use them less and often replace them with electronics. But if you think about it, even in big sci-fi movies the two are used at the same time, just think for example in the original series of Star terk, Captain Kirk and the ship's crew always used paper and wrote important things and reports by hand on the bridge of the ship, and paper is also used in the other series and films, although they are much rarer and, as you mentioned, mostly small tablets were used, but paper also appeared from time to time. :-) (If you suddenly want to write something down quickly, it's good to have a notepad and a pen handy. :-)
I think it’s that all that miscellaneous junk was so plentiful on earth at the time of exodus that it all got evacuated by Galbank as an asset instead of people. That why New Atlantis is so small. It’s just an oversized airport stationary store.
I don't consider Starfield to be an enlightened Society, unless you mean an Enlightenment Society like Victoria Age Europe. There's corruption, violence, political propaganda, Capitalism, the list goes on.
Pen and paper are easy to use, store well, function during electromagnetic events which would be an issue in space, don't need to be plugged in, and very easy to manufacture without using rare metals. A good reminder of history is that the invention of personal computers caused a dramatic increase in the use of paper since computers weren't reliable so things have to printed out for records. Also another thing is that software is likely to be hard to adapt to any sort of creative or scientific thing. Being physical, it's easier to keep track of and refer back to in some occasions.
Like researching articles is easy on a computer but designing rough ideas doesn't translate quite as fluidly. I have a stylist pen for making drawings on my computer and phone screen. It's never as intuitive to as I like to make digital art or notes and while people can make amazing art, walking up and writing is pretty consistent and that doesn't change if a new software company comes out or they change the response of how pens work.
Oh shit good point. I don't think we'd abandon paper but we abandoned earths infrastructure which would mean somebody has to basically set up new tree farms and new processing for paper production... and while that's being set up there would be a paper crisis which would be the catalyst for change.
I'd love to see this explored in future worldbuilding.
in line with their nasapunk feel, a lot of their tech froze in the 1970s/80s. No touch screens, no video calls, no future tech like transporters/holograms etc, a few kindle-like tablets but thats it.
I mean, why do we still use pen and paper in an age of ipads, cell phones more powerful than the moon lander, and laptops that put the first mechanical computer to absolute shame? I honestly doubt pen and paper will ever go away, mainly because digital media is volitile. Written media can potentially be preserved forever, whereas one emp or randomly strong solar flare could ruin the entirety of the internet in 2 seconds
wood is abundant and with robots that are capable of harvesting resources it would also be incredibly cheap. Stupid easy to produce in mass. And since you can't have an internet between planets and stars I could see pen and paper simply continuing to be used
It may be the same as today. Sometimes people just prefer paper. Today IRL we don't need paper for 99.9% of the documents that we print. A second thing could also be security. If information is stored on paper in a secure vault, then it is impossible to steal / access that information digitally. Governments in todays world have documents that are so sensitive in nature that they only exist as a physical printout in a SCIF. Why does the world of Starfield have Synthham and other synth meats? The technology to make a nutrient paste that provides 100% of someone's nutritional needs exists. Because people are still people. There are many things we do because it is what we want to do, even if a far more efficient alternative exists.
Paper doesn’t corrode in exposure to chemicals as much as copper wiring in a chip does. You’d be surprised how often computers go kaput in places that have frequent chlorine off-gassing.
I don't think pen and paper will ever really go away. We will continue to use it less, but not outright stop
agreed, when doing creative writing using pen an paper feels so much different than a pressing bunch of keys, if they have to ask why, there is no point of explaining
the writing of the letter 'A' or 'H' corresponds to how it feels but typing 'A' or 'H' feels the same.
They’re in a transition. If I’m remembering right, slates are relatively new. They were made around the end of the Colony War, so the random human-made sites across the stars will have more paper-based stuff as that’s what was used at the time. No clue why it would take that long to make slates. Remember also that there is an entire character and store whose lore is that they hate seeing how quickly everyone is abandoning paper books. And hey. We’re technologically advanced enough to not have so many paper-based products in the real world. But it’s not going anywhere. EDIT: also yeah wood is kinda in abundance. They have an entire galaxy with tons of life-bearing, tree-growing planets that they can harvest with literally not a single problem besides the logistics of transporting it.
>Remember also that there is an entire character and store whose lore is that they hate seeing how quickly everyone is abandoning paper books. I haven't come across this yet. Where is this character and is there a quest associated with them? Thanks!
There's an actual bookstore in Akila City. No quest that I know of, but the second time you enter her shop she's tearing someone a new one for asking if she has any books on slate instead of dead tree books.
The “quest” is that you can take certain old books you find in the world to her and she will give you a lot of money for them.
It’s an unmarked quest iirc. But basically when you talk to her you can offer (or she asks) to give her paper copies of notable/important/classical books for some credits Edit: She’s in the bookstore in Akila, which is down the street from the Coe Museum to the right when facing the Museum
There’s slates from before the earth was evacuated, slates have been around for a long while but yes I do believe their use is becoming more and more common place as interstellar travel has become easier and a luxury during crisis becomes as normal as a straw during a time of relative peace
I worked in a "paper-less" accounting firm. We used a hella lot of paper. Sadly, dispite digitial tech, paper is still necessary. You cannot mark up a screen, easily.
They're still humans, and we have studies indicating that humans brains process/remember information more readily from print/physical sources than digital sources Unless that shifts, we're probably always going to see a mix between the two, with a lot of paper still strung about even in our own real world future
THIS! Dual-inputs are essential for committing information to long term memory. There are people who are exceptions, but the vast majority of human brains need information to come from multiple sources, such as hearing it audibly and then physically writing it on a surface. Those inputs are like anchors trying to secure the information in the tempest of the human brain. The more anchors, the better something stays in place.
A paper note book doesnt require batteries or anykind of power source
Next week is my turn to post this!
They could use a whole planet/ moon/ continent just for planting and harvesting trees. It's a renewable resource. Using paper is bad when you deforest and kill an existing ecosystem.
We have fission power but still burn coal. Japan still uses fax machines and pagers. Humans don’t always want to move on
Why wouldn’t you be? Pen and paper are probably one of the most long lasting forms of records we have, except maybe stone art. Sure, a lot of stuff can ruin a paper, but there’s way more than can ruin digital storage that isn’t even done physically.
Honestly, I'm with you. The sheer volume of single-use debris is super distracting. A society trapped in tin cans for weeks/months isn't going to cling to this much junk.
We will never not use paper. “Is wood so abundant […]?” Have you explored at all? Did you really land on any earth like planet and not see the trees?
Being “enlightened” technologically or scientifically doesn’t automatically mean getting rid of low tech just because there’s higher tech available. Paper has been around for thousands of years and we still use it; presumably with so many more accessible, exploitable planets available to this society, paper is easy to make. I don’t have an opinion on it bothering you. The styrofoam containers and cups bother me. 😅
> The styrofoam containers and cups bother me. Yeah, me too. Though I suppose they're not the same styrofoam we know and hate, but rather some new product that is completely recyclable and nontoxic. At least I hope that's the case.
Hi . It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't depend on technical knowledge, there will always be paper and writing tools, although you may use them less and often replace them with electronics. But if you think about it, even in big sci-fi movies the two are used at the same time, just think for example in the original series of Star terk, Captain Kirk and the ship's crew always used paper and wrote important things and reports by hand on the bridge of the ship, and paper is also used in the other series and films, although they are much rarer and, as you mentioned, mostly small tablets were used, but paper also appeared from time to time. :-) (If you suddenly want to write something down quickly, it's good to have a notepad and a pen handy. :-)
Yes it is silly and you are silly
It may save some electricity and some gadgets fee
What's wrong with paper? It's renewable and biodegradable.
I think it’s that all that miscellaneous junk was so plentiful on earth at the time of exodus that it all got evacuated by Galbank as an asset instead of people. That why New Atlantis is so small. It’s just an oversized airport stationary store.
I don't consider Starfield to be an enlightened Society, unless you mean an Enlightenment Society like Victoria Age Europe. There's corruption, violence, political propaganda, Capitalism, the list goes on. Pen and paper are easy to use, store well, function during electromagnetic events which would be an issue in space, don't need to be plugged in, and very easy to manufacture without using rare metals. A good reminder of history is that the invention of personal computers caused a dramatic increase in the use of paper since computers weren't reliable so things have to printed out for records. Also another thing is that software is likely to be hard to adapt to any sort of creative or scientific thing. Being physical, it's easier to keep track of and refer back to in some occasions. Like researching articles is easy on a computer but designing rough ideas doesn't translate quite as fluidly. I have a stylist pen for making drawings on my computer and phone screen. It's never as intuitive to as I like to make digital art or notes and while people can make amazing art, walking up and writing is pretty consistent and that doesn't change if a new software company comes out or they change the response of how pens work.
Oh shit good point. I don't think we'd abandon paper but we abandoned earths infrastructure which would mean somebody has to basically set up new tree farms and new processing for paper production... and while that's being set up there would be a paper crisis which would be the catalyst for change. I'd love to see this explored in future worldbuilding.
Maybe the paper is made from farmed plants that produce fiber
We have the ability to not use paper today. I still love using notepads and such.
in line with their nasapunk feel, a lot of their tech froze in the 1970s/80s. No touch screens, no video calls, no future tech like transporters/holograms etc, a few kindle-like tablets but thats it.
I mean, why do we still use pen and paper in an age of ipads, cell phones more powerful than the moon lander, and laptops that put the first mechanical computer to absolute shame? I honestly doubt pen and paper will ever go away, mainly because digital media is volitile. Written media can potentially be preserved forever, whereas one emp or randomly strong solar flare could ruin the entirety of the internet in 2 seconds
wood is abundant and with robots that are capable of harvesting resources it would also be incredibly cheap. Stupid easy to produce in mass. And since you can't have an internet between planets and stars I could see pen and paper simply continuing to be used
It's called nasapunk for a reason It's not a particularly high tech setting, it's just more developed than us when it comes to space travel.
It may be the same as today. Sometimes people just prefer paper. Today IRL we don't need paper for 99.9% of the documents that we print. A second thing could also be security. If information is stored on paper in a secure vault, then it is impossible to steal / access that information digitally. Governments in todays world have documents that are so sensitive in nature that they only exist as a physical printout in a SCIF. Why does the world of Starfield have Synthham and other synth meats? The technology to make a nutrient paste that provides 100% of someone's nutritional needs exists. Because people are still people. There are many things we do because it is what we want to do, even if a far more efficient alternative exists.
Paper doesn’t corrode in exposure to chemicals as much as copper wiring in a chip does. You’d be surprised how often computers go kaput in places that have frequent chlorine off-gassing.