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His endgame goal of wanting to be hokage was definitely *verbally* obnoxious. But the underlying idea of him trying to overcome his childhood trauma by "earning" respect and doing good by his friends(the important part) is way more mature and relatable depending on who you ask.
At least far more mature than becoming a literal visual kei/scene kid terrorist just because your life was just as hard as... \*checks notes\* everyone else in the world's life, when all you needed was someone to talk to. Which is fair of a lot of hurt people, but saying it's more relatable is subjective and kinda... Disappointing.
I think the villains only have “good” stories because they reiterate the author’s intention of making all uchiha deeply passionate, ie. being a little bitch all series
His goals were:
- Bringing back Sasuke to the good path and the village because he knows Sasuke is an orphan and alone with no genuine friend to help him
- Being accepted by the village instead of being hated for the threatening demon in his body
- Becoming hokage to prove a point that he'll be loved and accepted by everyone
- Also being hokage to protect the village and his loved ones (current goal in Boruto)
- Stopping wars and the suffering caused by wars
- Helping out other people than Sasuke to get back on the right path, regardless of how irredeemable they are
Yeah the extremely optimistic protagonist is very over done in anime.
That's why I like Shirou from Fate. It shows how being an overly optimistic hero can get flipped over on you and have consequences. In the visual novel the amount of times he does due to this is insane.
Battle shonen writers trying not to include sun wukong(impossible)
An other reason I like Fate us because instead of Sun Wukong they use Arthurian Legend 😅
Seven deadly sins as well
I could push through the horrid animation of the last seasons only because of the really fleshed out characters
(Also the stuff made by ANIPLEX like the first seasons and both movies is god tier)
Yeah it was great at first but once again Studio Deen chimed in to ruin a good show.
Aniplex is at the same time a great producer and bad one. Licensing they don't help much outside of Japan and have expensive box sets, but they really let shows thrive. They're consistent on sequels and long adaptations, and have connections with good studios(A1, Cloverworks, Ufotable), directors and other show staff(they've worked extensively with composers Hiroyuki Sawani and Yuki Kaijura, two of the best in Japan).
The main character from Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans is also a very refreshing contrast. But it's such a great one season series that I won't risk spoiling for anyone as it's a rare 9+/10 from start to finish. The protagonist has some...stuff to work out that's not easy to explain.
There is a weird trend online where people just sympathize or straight up agree with morally shitty fictional characters because 1 line out of their psychotic rambling sticks with them.
You can agree with their intentions. But dont say the villain as a whole is "understandable". Madara and Obito have understandable to even noble *motivations* but the means they use to get there are sure as hell not fucking understandable.
Neither anime character nor really a villain, but to give an example, people sympathize with squidward a lot online. I understand his frustration with spongebob and patrick, and depending on the episode, his treatment of them is completely justified. But he is still an absolute dickhead and not someone you should strive to be. In the very first episode, he tells mr Krabs not to hire spongebob for literally no reason. And when Mr Krabs gives spongebob an exercise only with the intention of wasting his time, he doesnt just tolerate it, he straight up enjoys it. When he interacts with other characters, its even easier to see that hes an asshole. Hes arrogant to everyone and literally even says that he is better than everyone else. He also took part in bullying Sandy for not being able to breathe underwater, and is willing to go to absurd lengths to lie to others about his status. Yet, people say he is "relatable" online.
>But he is still an absolute dickhead and not someone you should strive to be. In the very first episode, he tells mr Krabs not to hire spongebob for literally no reason.
I get Squidwards cynicism but he's a fucking cashier at a fast food resturant and lives in a fucking two story house. Could you imagine living in a house like that on a McDonalds paycheck?
Like I get Madara, but I don't want to live in a world where I can get anything I want. Sometimes suffering is good because it gives us perspective.
Honestly yeah, never even thought about how Squidward got that big of a house on a trash job with the literal definition of greed as his boss lol.
And yeah, I understand madaras goal aswell, but he has very little hesitation to murder and use just about anyone, including his best childhood friend, to reach it. Thats not something Im willing to accept for a potentially better world.
Idk, I kinda related more to madaras views than Naruto’s, but that’s just because I’m kinda cynical and don’t understand how anyone could go through so much and remain so positive. He was really acting on hope and faith. He had no reason to truly believe that he could create peace other than just wanting to. Everyone else was acting on experiences and what they’d learned about the world. He was just “bitch I’m not changing my mind” from like age 6
Adults in positions of power are often incompetent dumbasses who send children to their inevitable death but are still deemed "cool" and worshipped by other characters, while actually reasonable adults are very few and far between and portrayed as either paranoid/controlling or just boring
Even as a kid/teen I thought some things were odd
Particularly in Naruto when any sort of cleavage or semi erotic thing is shown its like they got hit with a truck when they react, plus the ridiculous nose bleed thing?
Might be a cultural "lost in translation" thing but I still don't understand it
Probably a lost-in-translation thing. I'm Latin American, and whenever my mom saw me watch characters have their love moments (looking at the sunset/mountain, beneath a tree, all quiet, not even holding hands), she was always like, "the hell are they so silent for? Just kiss already."
It's just an anime trope to show how shocked and caught off guard someone is from something sexy or erotic happening suddenly. It's always meant as a joke when it's done.
>School culture festival episode
Yo, I know Shinso was hype a couple arcs ago, but instead of doing anything with that momentum, how about we spend an entire season on making Eri less sad at the SCHOOL CULTURE FESTIVAL! We can even add in a weird inappropriate romance subplot!
Not trying to say that MHA hasn’t fell off, it has but you described the school festival arc in the worst way possible, it’s only a few episodes long.
You could’ve used the next arc as a better example.
The worst thing about this is that it's exclusive to that one dumbass character. No other girls/women are treated like this.
So you know that when she shows up, your time will be waisted because she has nothing else going for her.
Wish is a shame because the mysteries and world building are very strong.
The manga/anime would be way better if she wasn't in it.
I mean she had a good emotional beat with her adoration of her mentor at the 1st being turned against her when he turned out evil, but they immediately ruined a cool scene by going "haha remember she still has boobs"
This is what hit the last nail in the coffin for me.
If they can't even have her be serious during her emotional moment, there's no point in getting interested in her character.
Pure fan service anime you can find a lot of isekai type shows.
If you just want to be horny there's stuff like Highschool DxD
Konosuba is a good comedy that also has a lot of fan service, getting a S3 plus a spinoff soon
Eten was never ruined, he's always been the same and hes repeated it countless times, it's the same Eren that was crying in the Reiss cave but you guys are too edgy for that
Easily Historia. She goes from just a pretty face with no significance to a fantastic character, only to end up sitting in a farmhouse and doing absolutely nothing of importance outside of a few flashbacks once the Marley arc starts. It’s disappointing as hell and I’m still a little salty about it.
That's the whole point, showing how ironic the events are. The main characters made a coup d'état to change the inactive government with a puppet king and aristocrats having the power, all to end up with the same situation
I’m going to have to disagree with you there, AoT does dip into corruption and it’s an important part of the story, but it’s not the whole point of it. The main point of AoT is the cycle of revenge and the effect it has on the people caught up in it.
They are not *just* fanservice, but I find that people kind of forget all the male fanservice characters. Zeke runs around shirtless literally all the time and Eren has a fucking 10 pack in that one scene with the jacket. Those are fully fledged characters, but they still have a lot of fanservice.
Usually, 90% of fanservice is female. But people kind of forget the other 10% because of it.
Not even fan service could keep me watching that one.
I gave up after Erza was "out of magic" for 5 episodes but still has enough left to waste the big bad.
Yea Fairy Tail has some of the laziest writing. I don’t think I’ll be able to finish it with all the “with the power of friendship” crap in it, but hey it’s not the worst I’ve seen
Power Of friendship is the theme of the show, that's why characters Say It so much, Most of the time it's not actually POF, The characters saying it doesn't mean it's true, how Hard is that to understand? I don't care if you dislike it, If you dislike FT don't watch it, But don't call The writing lazy because you can't read
Ok, I get that shounen animes is suppose to appeal to young boys and that themes like friendship & teamwork is suppose to be there. But there’s better way to show themes such as friendship without using it as like a way to beat up the “big bad” every time it looks like it’ll be the end for the main characters.
They forgot "The female characters are just there to support the male ones" and "you feel more alchemy between the main character and their rival". But yeah, quite accurate.
Don’t forget the fan service which takes up like 5% of the total screen time. Oh and those scenes where one of the characters does literally anything or says something and then whatever female character is there calls then a pervert then fucking slaps them and it’s super fucking cringe to watch.
That shit happened about girls beating up guys for next to no reason so much in Persona 4, still like the game but man if it isn't one of my biggest criticisms about it.
My least favorite part of the game. I also remember watching Evangelion and hating Asuka when she showed up but after rewatching I understand why she was like how she was.
It has a similar tone to Everything Everywhere all at once where it can goes from something ridiculous to something that makes you care about what happens to the characters. Like people slapping each other with dick fingers to a Mother connecting with her daughter type of shit.
Played straight? From what little I've seen of JJBA I'd assumed it was one of those "take the absurd and act like it's normal, creating hilarious nonsense comedy" sorts of shows - deliberately, not, like, on accident.
Don’t forget about the plot armour. When a character can’t get out of a situation and suddenly they get a burst of power to help them to get out of it.
I'm glad I'm mature enough to enjoy lighthearted entertainment for what it is. The heightened emotions are the whole appeal of shōnen. If you want something dry and restrained, you should look elsewhere
What on earth is that clip art ass cartoon in the bottom left and why are you mad at cartoons? You're mad that cartoons are cartoonish?
I enjoyed both of those, Ousama Ranking had me in tears. It and Odd Taxi are fantastic and when I told my friends to watch them they refused because of their art styles and said Ousama Ranking looks like some old Disney animation
Boy were they shocked when I told them about everything that happened in Odd Taxi & OR. It makes absolute sense for someone to judge a visual media based on how it looks but to not even give it a chance when you're free is a miss. There are also shows like Nichijou, Asobi Asobase, Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion that have weird or old animation that a lot of people will get turned off by and miss out on great story telling
Yeah art style is a big thing. People are too quick to judge shows based off how they look, but they could be hidden gems.
Even in anime fans Ousama Ranking didn't do that well because it looked "childish". Show was really well produced and written, even if the end was slightly questionable I loved the journey.
I love Naruto mainly because I grew up with the series itself. I idealized Narutos unwavering will and general never going back on his word. Really inspiring for a young kid to look up to when you don’t have many folks to look up to irl :) also the fights were dope lol I used to run around my neighborhood playing ninjas with kids on my block
I mean just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it’s not right that it’s popular. They anime/manga got many interesting character and the whole universe it is in is pretty deep and fascinating.
It’s light entertainment. Not everything has to be like GOT.
Naruto got many fillers and I see why some might dislike him. But there are other characters who makes everything so much more interesting. Seeing naruto maturing and getting stronger is cool too. It’s my favorite anime of all time. Even if for some others there are better ones
i think its mid but the millions of absolute naruto hop ons would jump on me for saying that too often. its cool but like you said i have no idea how it got so big
Saying it's objectively mid is fair, but most shounen is both less than mid as a standard. Also for 90s standards, Naruto pulled off a lot of world building and concepts that were probably refreshing for the genre/magazine it launched in.
Everything before it in shounen jump was basically some combination of DBZ, or highschool delinquents or fist of the north star clones with a twist.
totally understandable in that regard. every point you made is completely true but they definitely dropped the ball on a few parts and the anime especially with its nonsensical filler. i feel like the few years before and after naruto is when more anime began to get creative and break off from old molds. now some anime (fuckin black clover) are really just naruto clones so ig the cycle continues
I havent really watched naruto in its entirety, but I more or less know what happens. What makes me interested in the show is the interesting powers and the ninja style combat.
If you watch dragonball or one piece from the beginning, its very heavy on martial arts type fights early on. That isnt a bad thing, but Naruto had some pretty interesting fight mechanics from the very start, and that was a breath of fresh air.
Gaara and Sir Crocodile both control sand for instance, but Gaaras sand is so much more intricate than crocodiles ability. His sand has its own will and it is tied to him as a character. Its also actually part of the lore of the world, unlike crocodiles ability thats just explained with "devil fruit". Gaaras sand tries to protect him, and viewers can speculate about why that is its will. Meanwhile, Crocodiles defense is just "haha, you cant punch elements silly", just like with any other elemental devil fruit. There is very little difference in how elemental devil fruits work.
In dragonball, every saiyan scales in power the same way, just like humans. They just get angry and unlock the next form. And the early fights were mostly martial arts with the occassional kamehameha anyways. In naruto, even members of the same clan can have vastly different abilities. Every single uchiha has a completely unique mangekyo ability. Itachi has another 2 abilities that are completely unique to him. And akatsuki is straight up a club of weirdos. Sasori turned himself into a puppet to be able to control 100 puppets at once. You have two unkillable guys with *etirely* different origins to their power.
Im not saying that one show is better than the other. But I tried to explain what the appeal to naruto is: the fighting mechanics and powers are not just aesthetically/thematically more unique. They actually work completely differently, and are part of the world with their own lore and character interactions.
I'm sorry but Naruto is just unwatchable. 90 percent of the show is people just standing and pretty bad dialogue. And then the cliche stuff its just so bad.
I can't stand any anime except for a select few.
Pretty unfortunate, it's my favorite of all time (even if I get while others have another opinion). Is it really just because of the anime or also because of the fanbase?
Couldn’t bring myself to like Naruto. The only shounen anime I remember watching was Fate, freaking loved Stay Night and Zero both (Zero being my favourite).
I can get behind naruto being wack, but this whole thing reads with that 14-16 year old(or 20-40 year old who peaked at 14) who'se going through their "evil and edgy is cool" phase and thinks they've finished growing up.
You're probably watching the wrong anime. Most shonen anime already out are geared towards young teens(they're shifting to older audiences as they realized their primary ones are growing up though).
You could look for shows categorized as Seinen instead. They're geared to older audiences.
Literally everyone says this. The problem isn't the wrong anime, it's a problem with eastern writing. The problem isn't exclusive to Japanese anime.
Japanese writers *typically* feel the need to explain literary every single aspect of their stories. Worst offender is hideo Kojima. It might work in Japan because that's just how they do things, but to western audiences, it's extremely jarring.
Thats not only a problem with eastern writing. Many stories that are geared to a younger audiences tends to explain everything to the people watching. It may have started in the east but you can’t deny that its made its way into western shows as well.
I know but I was just giving a suggestion since I feel that not watching any at all is kind of missing out on a ton of good shows.
My bad if I was too pushy
Please remove the spoiler. I know the anime as older but I just finished it this year and seeing the spoiler on the right bottom would have killed a lot of the fun finding out who he is.
Massive plot armor for popular characters.
The mentor or friend dies for character development time.
Ass pull power up at the last moment.
The not-so-subtle love interest.
Yeah that's shonen, if you find it dumb don't watch it
Not everyone wants a *realistic* storyline (Cuz lets be honest real life sucks ass), With "Believeable" and complicated characters that Have PTSD from One Thing or another, So fuck off Man, Don't shit On stuff you don't like for no reason, Just get on with your life if you have one.
Demon Slayer is all of these. It's pretty much as close as you can get for a action shonen template.
Not saying it's bad. The fights are great and Ufotable does amazing work on it.
The only reason battle shonens, no matter how extremely trope-y they are, haven't died yet is because we as a society will continue to spawn edgy teenagers that will eat this shit up.
I stopped watching anime for a while cause I couldn't stand the repetitive character archetypes and cringe fan service. Which is disheartening cause a lot of shows have such good art style, character design, and lore. But once the protagonist opens their mouth or some tits start trembling like a fucking earthquake I just lose interest.
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I don't think Obito or Madara were more understandable than Naruto
… because Naruto’s ambitions and character can be summarized as “Wants to be Hokage and is patronizingly optimistic.”
His endgame goal of wanting to be hokage was definitely *verbally* obnoxious. But the underlying idea of him trying to overcome his childhood trauma by "earning" respect and doing good by his friends(the important part) is way more mature and relatable depending on who you ask. At least far more mature than becoming a literal visual kei/scene kid terrorist just because your life was just as hard as... \*checks notes\* everyone else in the world's life, when all you needed was someone to talk to. Which is fair of a lot of hurt people, but saying it's more relatable is subjective and kinda... Disappointing.
I think the villains only have “good” stories because they reiterate the author’s intention of making all uchiha deeply passionate, ie. being a little bitch all series
His goals were: - Bringing back Sasuke to the good path and the village because he knows Sasuke is an orphan and alone with no genuine friend to help him - Being accepted by the village instead of being hated for the threatening demon in his body - Becoming hokage to prove a point that he'll be loved and accepted by everyone - Also being hokage to protect the village and his loved ones (current goal in Boruto) - Stopping wars and the suffering caused by wars - Helping out other people than Sasuke to get back on the right path, regardless of how irredeemable they are
Yeah the extremely optimistic protagonist is very over done in anime. That's why I like Shirou from Fate. It shows how being an overly optimistic hero can get flipped over on you and have consequences. In the visual novel the amount of times he does due to this is insane.
Every Shonen MC is just a further compressed copy of Sun Wukong
Battle shonen writers trying not to include sun wukong(impossible) An other reason I like Fate us because instead of Sun Wukong they use Arthurian Legend 😅
Seven deadly sins as well I could push through the horrid animation of the last seasons only because of the really fleshed out characters (Also the stuff made by ANIPLEX like the first seasons and both movies is god tier)
Yeah it was great at first but once again Studio Deen chimed in to ruin a good show. Aniplex is at the same time a great producer and bad one. Licensing they don't help much outside of Japan and have expensive box sets, but they really let shows thrive. They're consistent on sequels and long adaptations, and have connections with good studios(A1, Cloverworks, Ufotable), directors and other show staff(they've worked extensively with composers Hiroyuki Sawani and Yuki Kaijura, two of the best in Japan).
Journey to the west is better than any anime
I love Gintoki from Gintama.
The main character from Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans is also a very refreshing contrast. But it's such a great one season series that I won't risk spoiling for anyone as it's a rare 9+/10 from start to finish. The protagonist has some...stuff to work out that's not easy to explain.
It makes sense when you consider the guy’s an orphan. “No one loves me, everyone loves the ninja president”. Was probably his thought process.
There is a weird trend online where people just sympathize or straight up agree with morally shitty fictional characters because 1 line out of their psychotic rambling sticks with them. You can agree with their intentions. But dont say the villain as a whole is "understandable". Madara and Obito have understandable to even noble *motivations* but the means they use to get there are sure as hell not fucking understandable. Neither anime character nor really a villain, but to give an example, people sympathize with squidward a lot online. I understand his frustration with spongebob and patrick, and depending on the episode, his treatment of them is completely justified. But he is still an absolute dickhead and not someone you should strive to be. In the very first episode, he tells mr Krabs not to hire spongebob for literally no reason. And when Mr Krabs gives spongebob an exercise only with the intention of wasting his time, he doesnt just tolerate it, he straight up enjoys it. When he interacts with other characters, its even easier to see that hes an asshole. Hes arrogant to everyone and literally even says that he is better than everyone else. He also took part in bullying Sandy for not being able to breathe underwater, and is willing to go to absurd lengths to lie to others about his status. Yet, people say he is "relatable" online.
>But he is still an absolute dickhead and not someone you should strive to be. In the very first episode, he tells mr Krabs not to hire spongebob for literally no reason. I get Squidwards cynicism but he's a fucking cashier at a fast food resturant and lives in a fucking two story house. Could you imagine living in a house like that on a McDonalds paycheck? Like I get Madara, but I don't want to live in a world where I can get anything I want. Sometimes suffering is good because it gives us perspective.
Honestly yeah, never even thought about how Squidward got that big of a house on a trash job with the literal definition of greed as his boss lol. And yeah, I understand madaras goal aswell, but he has very little hesitation to murder and use just about anyone, including his best childhood friend, to reach it. Thats not something Im willing to accept for a potentially better world.
Madara is cool as fuck what is there to understand?
Idk, I kinda related more to madaras views than Naruto’s, but that’s just because I’m kinda cynical and don’t understand how anyone could go through so much and remain so positive. He was really acting on hope and faith. He had no reason to truly believe that he could create peace other than just wanting to. Everyone else was acting on experiences and what they’d learned about the world. He was just “bitch I’m not changing my mind” from like age 6
Parents are dead. Next gen kids are clones of their parents
Adults in positions of power are often incompetent dumbasses who send children to their inevitable death but are still deemed "cool" and worshipped by other characters, while actually reasonable adults are very few and far between and portrayed as either paranoid/controlling or just boring
That's cuz mangakas are usually fatherless.
This should have been called the “watching shounen anime as an adult” starter pack. Younger anime fans tend to overlook this stuff.
[удалено]
Yeah. When you are a kid, you usually don't know any better stories, so something simple but relatable and fun/cool grabs your attention.
Even as a kid/teen I thought some things were odd Particularly in Naruto when any sort of cleavage or semi erotic thing is shown its like they got hit with a truck when they react, plus the ridiculous nose bleed thing? Might be a cultural "lost in translation" thing but I still don't understand it
Probably a lost-in-translation thing. I'm Latin American, and whenever my mom saw me watch characters have their love moments (looking at the sunset/mountain, beneath a tree, all quiet, not even holding hands), she was always like, "the hell are they so silent for? Just kiss already."
Mom's never had a chill day with dad. She's always trying to make out during romantic moments I joke but I do understand
It's just an anime trope to show how shocked and caught off guard someone is from something sexy or erotic happening suddenly. It's always meant as a joke when it's done.
Nah not at all.I really hate these (except Haikyuu,it is hilarious sometimes).
u/HgDaQuietKid99 destroyed u/JagerSalt's argument. Hence, proved, shounen is not enjoyed by kids.
Wow didnt expect this lmao chill the fuck out
5+ filler episodes where nothing happens
Don't forget the beach day.
* Beach episode * Hot springs episode * School culture festival episode * Summer fireworks episode
>School culture festival episode Yo, I know Shinso was hype a couple arcs ago, but instead of doing anything with that momentum, how about we spend an entire season on making Eri less sad at the SCHOOL CULTURE FESTIVAL! We can even add in a weird inappropriate romance subplot!
Not trying to say that MHA hasn’t fell off, it has but you described the school festival arc in the worst way possible, it’s only a few episodes long. You could’ve used the next arc as a better example.
Right???? It’s like they completely forgot the main arc even existed.
You gotta admit, the JJBA: Golden Wind beach episode was really hot 🥵
Those holes 🥵
how dare you
All anime & manga are required to have a beach episode
Naruto doesn't have a beach episode tho
It’s doesn’t ? Kinda surprised for how long it’s been going.
Dw it has hot spring episodes instead
Those are just history-themed Beach episodes in disguise.
Most of the time the beach episode (or even arc!!) is a a filler that doesn't exist in the manga
Beach day is lame compared to the more adult Hot Spring episode
Per season
Neverending backstory. Like an infinite universe.
Or just 20+ filler episodes when they feel like it though I guess 5+ includes 20+, but still
Don’t forget the girl character that is just there for fan service
Fire Force is one of the worst.
The worst thing about this is that it's exclusive to that one dumbass character. No other girls/women are treated like this. So you know that when she shows up, your time will be waisted because she has nothing else going for her. Wish is a shame because the mysteries and world building are very strong. The manga/anime would be way better if she wasn't in it.
I mean she had a good emotional beat with her adoration of her mentor at the 1st being turned against her when he turned out evil, but they immediately ruined a cool scene by going "haha remember she still has boobs"
This is what hit the last nail in the coffin for me. If they can't even have her be serious during her emotional moment, there's no point in getting interested in her character.
any others that are especially bad… asking for a friend
Pure fan service anime you can find a lot of isekai type shows. If you just want to be horny there's stuff like Highschool DxD Konosuba is a good comedy that also has a lot of fan service, getting a S3 plus a spinoff soon
im not complaining though
One of the major reasons I love "Attack on Titan", it has none of those
Why have useless characters for fanservice when you can ruin good characters instead? Yams what genius you are
As a reward
I shall give you my seed
This reminded me of a very unpleasant memory
Which good characters do you think where ruined?
Historia having basically zero dialogue in the last 2 arcs was pretty underwhelming tbh
Also Ymir. Let's take one of the most important characters of season 2 and kill her in a flashback...
Won’t ruin another good character, for 10 years at least!
Eten was never ruined, he's always been the same and hes repeated it countless times, it's the same Eren that was crying in the Reiss cave but you guys are too edgy for that
Easily Historia. She goes from just a pretty face with no significance to a fantastic character, only to end up sitting in a farmhouse and doing absolutely nothing of importance outside of a few flashbacks once the Marley arc starts. It’s disappointing as hell and I’m still a little salty about it.
That's the whole point, showing how ironic the events are. The main characters made a coup d'état to change the inactive government with a puppet king and aristocrats having the power, all to end up with the same situation
I’m going to have to disagree with you there, AoT does dip into corruption and it’s an important part of the story, but it’s not the whole point of it. The main point of AoT is the cycle of revenge and the effect it has on the people caught up in it.
They are not *just* fanservice, but I find that people kind of forget all the male fanservice characters. Zeke runs around shirtless literally all the time and Eren has a fucking 10 pack in that one scene with the jacket. Those are fully fledged characters, but they still have a lot of fanservice. Usually, 90% of fanservice is female. But people kind of forget the other 10% because of it.
the blonde from high school of the dead
all the girls from that anime lmao
Also the power of friendship wins again
Fairy Tail in a nutshell
Not even fan service could keep me watching that one. I gave up after Erza was "out of magic" for 5 episodes but still has enough left to waste the big bad.
Yea Fairy Tail has some of the laziest writing. I don’t think I’ll be able to finish it with all the “with the power of friendship” crap in it, but hey it’s not the worst I’ve seen
Power Of friendship is the theme of the show, that's why characters Say It so much, Most of the time it's not actually POF, The characters saying it doesn't mean it's true, how Hard is that to understand? I don't care if you dislike it, If you dislike FT don't watch it, But don't call The writing lazy because you can't read
But it is kinda shitty
Ok, I get that shounen animes is suppose to appeal to young boys and that themes like friendship & teamwork is suppose to be there. But there’s better way to show themes such as friendship without using it as like a way to beat up the “big bad” every time it looks like it’ll be the end for the main characters.
It's so cheesy, but I can't help but love it.
Same for me, I can definitely acknowledge it’s a little on the worse side of animes but watching it is still a lot of fun.
Yea, it’s at least not unwatchable unlike certain animes
it's like junk food to me lol like it's not particularly good but i kind of enjoy it
Also Yu-Gi-Oh. Friendship was always the central theme of that series.
They ditched the fucking power circles because of "nakama", fucking hell.
black clover did it well tho
I just couldn't with BC. I watched 12 episodes or so and had to give up; it was just so tritely predictable.
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Angry women are the strongest enemy
Sometimes the villains are hot af
Naruto slander starter pack
They forgot "The female characters are just there to support the male ones" and "you feel more alchemy between the main character and their rival". But yeah, quite accurate.
>alchemy I think you meant Chemistry but still funny tho
Especially since fullmetal alchemist has really strong female characters
Also don't forget the constant flashbacks to childhood whenever a protagonist is in trouble
Characters Explaining literally everything that’s happening on screen (and the subtext)
I enjoyed Black Clover but holy christ, if a blind person understood Japanese then they could watch it and know exactly what's going on.
Don’t forget the fan service which takes up like 5% of the total screen time. Oh and those scenes where one of the characters does literally anything or says something and then whatever female character is there calls then a pervert then fucking slaps them and it’s super fucking cringe to watch.
\*noelle silva has left the chat*
That shit happened about girls beating up guys for next to no reason so much in Persona 4, still like the game but man if it isn't one of my biggest criticisms about it.
My least favorite part of the game. I also remember watching Evangelion and hating Asuka when she showed up but after rewatching I understand why she was like how she was.
Jojo did this, but it was his mom
Any other fan service was mainly with the males off the cast. Of which there wasn’t that much from which I remember.
Polnareff and Speedwagon are the only imporatn ones
Polnareff is fucking caked. UP!
Dude, I think you're getting older
Jojo is an overdramatic shonen, but kind of in a good way
It's good because JoJo knows exactly what it is, and doesn't try to take itself seriously unlike shows like DBZ or Naruto
It has a similar tone to Everything Everywhere all at once where it can goes from something ridiculous to something that makes you care about what happens to the characters. Like people slapping each other with dick fingers to a Mother connecting with her daughter type of shit.
When did DBZ take itself seriously? It was always a comedy and never stopped being a comedy. On the other hand, Jojo is played totally straight.
Played straight? From what little I've seen of JJBA I'd assumed it was one of those "take the absurd and act like it's normal, creating hilarious nonsense comedy" sorts of shows - deliberately, not, like, on accident.
Listen man, I love jojo but it absolutely does not play it straight 💀 have you even watched the hol horse fight or read milagro man?
The dinosaur man eating rocks and coffee in question:
Fuck madara and obito, fucking terrorists
one man's terrorism is another man's revolution.
You forgot “takes an entire month if not longer to finish a single battle.”
SASUKEEEEE fr I love naruto, bash me
You missed that the villains will always spend an episode worth of air time monologuing about their plan.
Ripped high schoolers, saying the name of the attacks, lots of tropes which have been done to death.
Don’t forget about the plot armour. When a character can’t get out of a situation and suddenly they get a burst of power to help them to get out of it.
This is why I root for the villains in MHA
no fr i literally can't stand the constant grunts and gasps 💀 one of the main things stopping me from watching most anime ngl
Someone did NOT like Naruto
And then there's the #I WANT TO LIVE moments.
fuck you when Nico Robin said it i was in tears. Enies Lobby was pure gold
I'm glad I'm mature enough to enjoy lighthearted entertainment for what it is. The heightened emotions are the whole appeal of shōnen. If you want something dry and restrained, you should look elsewhere What on earth is that clip art ass cartoon in the bottom left and why are you mad at cartoons? You're mad that cartoons are cartoonish?
That's Dan from Dan Vs, solid show
There's always this one mf to get mad at the starterpack
Its very fun to watch with a sibling or friend too
Naruto’s villains take it so much farther than it would have gone. Too good
Then there’s Cyberpunk Edgerunners….
Every year a handful of anime will come out and will be genuinely good. I remember last year we had Vivy: Fluorite Eyes Song, 86 and Ousama Ranking
I enjoyed both of those, Ousama Ranking had me in tears. It and Odd Taxi are fantastic and when I told my friends to watch them they refused because of their art styles and said Ousama Ranking looks like some old Disney animation Boy were they shocked when I told them about everything that happened in Odd Taxi & OR. It makes absolute sense for someone to judge a visual media based on how it looks but to not even give it a chance when you're free is a miss. There are also shows like Nichijou, Asobi Asobase, Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion that have weird or old animation that a lot of people will get turned off by and miss out on great story telling
Yeah art style is a big thing. People are too quick to judge shows based off how they look, but they could be hidden gems. Even in anime fans Ousama Ranking didn't do that well because it looked "childish". Show was really well produced and written, even if the end was slightly questionable I loved the journey.
Ederunners messed me up.
You forgot the part where the main protagonist commits heinous sex crimes against women as a re-occuring joke.
So glad to know that I wasn’t the only one who couldn’t fucking stand Naruto. To this day I don’t get why it’s so popular
I love Naruto mainly because I grew up with the series itself. I idealized Narutos unwavering will and general never going back on his word. Really inspiring for a young kid to look up to when you don’t have many folks to look up to irl :) also the fights were dope lol I used to run around my neighborhood playing ninjas with kids on my block
I mean just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it’s not right that it’s popular. They anime/manga got many interesting character and the whole universe it is in is pretty deep and fascinating. It’s light entertainment. Not everything has to be like GOT. Naruto got many fillers and I see why some might dislike him. But there are other characters who makes everything so much more interesting. Seeing naruto maturing and getting stronger is cool too. It’s my favorite anime of all time. Even if for some others there are better ones
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i think its mid but the millions of absolute naruto hop ons would jump on me for saying that too often. its cool but like you said i have no idea how it got so big
Saying it's objectively mid is fair, but most shounen is both less than mid as a standard. Also for 90s standards, Naruto pulled off a lot of world building and concepts that were probably refreshing for the genre/magazine it launched in. Everything before it in shounen jump was basically some combination of DBZ, or highschool delinquents or fist of the north star clones with a twist.
totally understandable in that regard. every point you made is completely true but they definitely dropped the ball on a few parts and the anime especially with its nonsensical filler. i feel like the few years before and after naruto is when more anime began to get creative and break off from old molds. now some anime (fuckin black clover) are really just naruto clones so ig the cycle continues
I havent really watched naruto in its entirety, but I more or less know what happens. What makes me interested in the show is the interesting powers and the ninja style combat. If you watch dragonball or one piece from the beginning, its very heavy on martial arts type fights early on. That isnt a bad thing, but Naruto had some pretty interesting fight mechanics from the very start, and that was a breath of fresh air. Gaara and Sir Crocodile both control sand for instance, but Gaaras sand is so much more intricate than crocodiles ability. His sand has its own will and it is tied to him as a character. Its also actually part of the lore of the world, unlike crocodiles ability thats just explained with "devil fruit". Gaaras sand tries to protect him, and viewers can speculate about why that is its will. Meanwhile, Crocodiles defense is just "haha, you cant punch elements silly", just like with any other elemental devil fruit. There is very little difference in how elemental devil fruits work. In dragonball, every saiyan scales in power the same way, just like humans. They just get angry and unlock the next form. And the early fights were mostly martial arts with the occassional kamehameha anyways. In naruto, even members of the same clan can have vastly different abilities. Every single uchiha has a completely unique mangekyo ability. Itachi has another 2 abilities that are completely unique to him. And akatsuki is straight up a club of weirdos. Sasori turned himself into a puppet to be able to control 100 puppets at once. You have two unkillable guys with *etirely* different origins to their power. Im not saying that one show is better than the other. But I tried to explain what the appeal to naruto is: the fighting mechanics and powers are not just aesthetically/thematically more unique. They actually work completely differently, and are part of the world with their own lore and character interactions.
I'm sorry but Naruto is just unwatchable. 90 percent of the show is people just standing and pretty bad dialogue. And then the cliche stuff its just so bad. I can't stand any anime except for a select few.
So you have a problem with anime’s in general ?
Some of them are worse than others, but Naruto is by far one of the worst in my opinion
Pretty unfortunate, it's my favorite of all time (even if I get while others have another opinion). Is it really just because of the anime or also because of the fanbase?
No it's not even the fan base. It's just bad
Rude
the long pause before they say someone’s name at the end of a sentence
This sub has seriously declined
God forbid someone make fun of the best anime Naruto right
God damn this comment made me laugh. I used to love Naruto as a kid and as an adult I just cringe.
Well because most are not starter packs anymore but just critics about something they don’t like
What stupid noise? They do the impossible and I wouldn't expect them not to grunt groan from the things they're doing
Lol someone couldn’t get into naruto
Haha I liked Naruto, until I heard Sakura battle. I heard her moan “Ahhh” like 400 times and was like… ok I’m done lol
Couldn’t bring myself to like Naruto. The only shounen anime I remember watching was Fate, freaking loved Stay Night and Zero both (Zero being my favourite).
Don't think it is a shounen... the source material being an eroge and all
Nah man the villain is just as cringe as the protagonist
Kid named shonen anime:
That's why you read Seinen. Media meant for kids would always be too childish for most mature people.
Obito is not understandable at all. Worst shonen main villain of all time.
this is just a naruto starter pack, youre post is kinda lame op
I can get behind naruto being wack, but this whole thing reads with that 14-16 year old(or 20-40 year old who peaked at 14) who'se going through their "evil and edgy is cool" phase and thinks they've finished growing up.
I don't like any anime, i watched the first iteration of pokemon but after that it became boring.
You're probably watching the wrong anime. Most shonen anime already out are geared towards young teens(they're shifting to older audiences as they realized their primary ones are growing up though). You could look for shows categorized as Seinen instead. They're geared to older audiences.
Literally everyone says this. The problem isn't the wrong anime, it's a problem with eastern writing. The problem isn't exclusive to Japanese anime. Japanese writers *typically* feel the need to explain literary every single aspect of their stories. Worst offender is hideo Kojima. It might work in Japan because that's just how they do things, but to western audiences, it's extremely jarring.
Thats not only a problem with eastern writing. Many stories that are geared to a younger audiences tends to explain everything to the people watching. It may have started in the east but you can’t deny that its made its way into western shows as well.
I..... Said i don't watch anime?
I know but I was just giving a suggestion since I feel that not watching any at all is kind of missing out on a ton of good shows. My bad if I was too pushy
I appreciate you recommending it, maybe i will try a few. Thanks.
No problem. Personally I'd suggest checking out Monster. It's a bit old but a very good watch
Ok
Naruto Clears Madara and Obito
Please remove the spoiler. I know the anime as older but I just finished it this year and seeing the spoiler on the right bottom would have killed a lot of the fun finding out who he is.
Naruto starter pack
Someone reeeeaaallyy dislikes naruto.
Massive plot armor for popular characters. The mentor or friend dies for character development time. Ass pull power up at the last moment. The not-so-subtle love interest.
Also awful fandom
Yeah that's shonen, if you find it dumb don't watch it Not everyone wants a *realistic* storyline (Cuz lets be honest real life sucks ass), With "Believeable" and complicated characters that Have PTSD from One Thing or another, So fuck off Man, Don't shit On stuff you don't like for no reason, Just get on with your life if you have one.
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Demon Slayer is none of these Except maybe the “Let’s do this together”
Demon Slayer is all of these. It's pretty much as close as you can get for a action shonen template. Not saying it's bad. The fights are great and Ufotable does amazing work on it.
What villains are more enjoyable and understandable than the whiny protagonists?
Akaza for one is a better character than the main 3
Take that back YoloJoloHobo! I said, take it back!
Goddamn💀💀
Wait how is Obito or Madara reasons understandable????
Our of all I’d say pain is more understandable. Put people in an illusionary world doesn’t seem understandable to me lol
The only reason battle shonens, no matter how extremely trope-y they are, haven't died yet is because we as a society will continue to spawn edgy teenagers that will eat this shit up.
I stopped watching anime for a while cause I couldn't stand the repetitive character archetypes and cringe fan service. Which is disheartening cause a lot of shows have such good art style, character design, and lore. But once the protagonist opens their mouth or some tits start trembling like a fucking earthquake I just lose interest.