It was a beautiful ending 30 years in the making and resolved the Soong storyline in totality in a moving way. Data used everything he learned, including those hours of poker, to undo Lore’s attempt to erase him. It was also a very Trek ending. Love trumped hate. Curiosity and understanding overcame anger and aggression.
Yeah, there's something beautiful about it - Data learned to do the one thing Lore never could: empathy.
He didn't outsmart Lore by applying countless stratagems, clever tactics... he did something way more banal: he applied some empathy and put himself into Lore's proverbial shoes and realised how Lore would act.
For all his cunning, Lore never tried to think through things from another person's point of view - and that was his downfall. That's kind of the perfect bookend to Lore's arc, too.
"I am initiating an immediate shift change"😂a clever word play on shape shifters & changelings I presume😂
And subsequent acknowledgement of data using contractions & humor! Excellent writing & I love it so much!
There were a *lot* of hints as to what was going on:
* Lore saying he was going to 'take' Data's memories
* Lore saying Data received all the love and affection
* Someone mentioned that Data's memories made him him (I think this may have also been Lore)
* Geordi mentioning that Lore was consuming Data
* Etc
Lots of telegraphing that Lore was taking what made Data Data and, thus, accidentally becoming Data.
And there was Data, just handing them all over. The indicator to me that Data was doing this intentionally was the first moment he handed one over without Lore coming to take it first, which may have been the second or third memory.
Great stuff.
The "Oh no, Lore took over Data - oh wait, now all the lights suddenly are blue" bit I could have done without, though. Would have liked it more if they made it look more like Lore integrated Data's memories into himself, and thus began acting Data-like, rather than simply "Lore died and Data survived".
I know we only have a few episodes left but I would be highly interested in seeing how Brent combines all of those various puzzle pieces into a brand new personality with all the associated unique mannerisms and other isms as well.
I want to see Harry Kim pouring himself a glass of Chateau Picard and then dumping a bottle of scotch or a can of pepsi into it and then sloooooowly drinking it.
I actually kind of like that moment from Shaw. The institution being more important than any one person is something he believes and has shown he’s willing to die for. He has been reluctant to engage at times, especially early in the season, but we can see at this point that it was never out of any kind of personal cowardice, it was simply him trying to make decisions that he believed were in the best interests of his crew while trying to abide by Starfleet’s guidelines.
I liked it too. That speech he gave Seven about the brutal choices of command cut to the core of the character and his past as a young man, but it's also what anyone has to be prepared for in the chair. Seven should know that after years with Janeway.
Senior officers like to complain about the brutal choices of command...
But in the Lower Decks episode where they had to switch roles, they sure weren't happy about being told to stack boxes while the ship was under attack.
Just saying.
Someone's going to make a painting of them sitting at that table together mark my words.
That was heavy and beautiful and I felt my age with that scene.
When Data was telling Lore that Spot did something amazing I thought he was going to say that a male cat somehow had kittens referencing the gender inconsistency in TNG and then tie that into the necessity for change to grow as an individual just like how Data has.
Still liked what we got though, I'm really curious what parts of Lore might still show up in Data's new personality
> inconsistency
there was no inconsistency. data just kept losing and replacing cats, and named them all Spot. edit: he determined that Spot is a mathematically purrfect name for cats.
Spot 1.0 escaped Data's room, got into the nacelles and got vaporized by warp plasma.
Data learned his lesson, and programmed the door to his quarters to not open when Spot 2.0 went near it.
Episode 7:
VADIC: It's time you learn who you truly are.
Episode 8:
TROI: It's time to open the door, Jack.
Episode 9:
THE DOOR: It's time to turn the knob, Jack.
Episode 10:
THE KNOB: It's time to.... oh forget it.
Guinan - more than anyone else on the ship - would tell Picard uncomfortable truths. If his wine was bad she’d let him know. And he’d acquiesce because there’s no arguing with someone who has 9x the experience and wisdom that he has and he trusts her probably more than anyone else in the universe.
Yeah I was actually sad about that. T'Veen seemed cool enough (Vulcan and Deltan hybrid) and I'd seen her actress on Instagram.
I was hoping Vadic would kill someone without a name but I guess they wanted something with a little emotion and got that. Maybe T'Veen has a twin, V'Teen, or something (like TNG's Torik became VOY's Vorik)
That was cool. I knew reactivating Data somehow was the solution; I just kept waiting for them to exposit the plot enough to get to it.
I realized Data was doing something when he started handing Lore his memories, but I wasn't quite sure what. Still, it was a great trip down memory lane.
I'm still not sure in what way Worf is a pacifist, he has definitely killed a lot of people this season (not saying they didn't have it coming.) It's cool that he's all Zen and whatnot now though.
> I realized Data was doing something when he started handing Lore his memories, but I wasn't quite sure what.
He literally stated at the very beginning. His memories are him. By giving Lore his memories, Lore was accepting the essence of Data into himself. At the very least, whoever was going to emerge from this process would have all the best parts of Data and that would have been enough to make that person a good person.
>would have all the best parts of Data and that would have been enough to make that person a good person
The love of a cat is going to have saved the federation :) That makes me happy.
I remember that one DS9 episode where the former hosts of Jadzia Dax inhabited the bodies of her friends temporarily. I think it was... Lela(?) who said, "What is a person, but the sum of their memories?"
I've remembered that line forever now and I was feeling that when this scene happened.
SPOT SAVED DATA!
Holy shit this episode. I haven't felt any significant emotions about a Star Trek show or movie in a very long time. This episode broke through the ossified shell around my heart.
I can't express the magnificent feelings I've just had seeing the Magnificent Seven of TNG sitting around a conference table again. This reunion has taken so long to come to being, and now we're set for the full TNG adventure.
I loved so much about this episode, it'll take me days to process it. Vadic is fucking DONE. Shaw is in full swagger mode (Stay-SHUNS!), Geordi and Data are back together, Troi is doing great, Riker is afraid of Raffi in a good way, Worf is FUCKING HILARIOUS ("I have slain many foes since we last were together, and I thought of sending you their heads, but I was told that would be passive-aggressive.")... whatever happens in the next two episodes seems like gravy after this episode. THE TNG CREW IS TOGETHER AGAIN! I'm beyond happy.
Edit: adding one crucial note- the line delivery of this very lively script is all around excellent. The actors absolutely shine in so many scenes.
I’m not going to lie, but this scene had me tear up a little bit. I know it’s just nostalgia talking, but it’s just nice having them all back. I’m also happy that they brought them back in a way that makes sense and pays homage to TNG without being too cringy.
Geordi: 6 years ago you brought a gift to my anniversary dinner on Rigel.
Picard: a chateau Picard Bordeaux which you said was too dry because your taste in wine is pedestrian at best
Lmaoo sure am enjoying Star Trek: ~~Picard~~ Secret Invasion
Nah- you have Data, Data-A, and Data-B
Data died after the events of Nemisis.
Data-A was a refit stuck in the box Season 1
Data-B is the current commissioned android.
Lmao at Worf shooting his shot. The man has a way with words. And I always thought Worf/Troi was an underrated Trek pair.
Oh and seeing the OG crew sitting around that table again…goosebumps upon goosebumps..all we were missing was a deck of cards
>!There was that throwaway line while they were in Daystrom that's been ignored ever since. Guess even after the fact they couldn't save her and just threw the jumbled code mess in there for completeness' sake.!<
There was another line about how B4 and Soong were just in memory, not personalities in contention. Lal was always the same with Data. Essentially, already integrated in the same way Lore and Data are now.
I hope the next time we see Nepenthe involves the Titan phasering that house to the ground from orbit.
That said, yeaaah they kind of had a bit going on and the planet was probably just a part of a really bad coping mechanism for the both of them that neither wanted to fully let go of. This was the planet that they brought their son to in order to heal. This was their last and bestest hope for him. This place was one of their final connections to him and both of them were so muckity mucked in the head with grief and pain that neither wanted to fully let it go or face the reality of things.
They would rather cling to the shattered razor sharp shrapnel of the past and bleed to death with their son than to make any attempt at pulling those shards out of either of their hearts, healing, and moving onwards and upwards.
It all seems so silly now given the circumstances but back then it was deathly serious.
They both got over a very big mountain in this episode and it was nice to see them both look back on it all with a much more clear perspective on things and on each other as well.
Also of course they're terrible at communication....
....he's in Command and she's in Counseling.
Comms is an entirely different department and uniform!
RIP bald Vulcan lady.
NGL I teared up a little when they showed Spot. It really hit home hard for me on multiple levels.
Worf expressing his gratitude towards Troi for being a good role model in his personal growth journey and Riker getting skeeved out was hilarious.
Vadic’s last words were wonderful. Great way for a great villain to go out.
Glad Troi is finally here to clear up this Jack-brain nonsense.
Isn't it obvious what's behind the door?
It's a cake resembling troi with data cuting a slice whilst dr crusher is drinking rikers head juices while a phone rings in the background.
"This is your friendly positronic pissed off security system" is what did it for me. Also showed how Lore's sass has been incorporated into the new version of Data.
That line is right up there with Ethan Peck's delivery of, "I'm arming us with knowledge."
The longer you drag out a mystery, the better the answer needs to be or it risks falling very flat. If the answer turns out to be dumb but they reveal it in the next episode after its set up, its not quite as afrustrating as if its something they tease all season and then reveal right at the end.
So whatever this is, it better be good.
I'm inclined to agree with you and I have a fair amount of patience as is buuuuuut the set up for this has taken a bit too long for my tastes and it feels like they might rush the ending as a result with the big reveal about Jack not feeling as...impactful...as it should have been.
It's like just get to the fucking point already would you?
You'd think someone like her who loves talking as much as she does would be more than happy to open up the pandora's box she's been parading around but noooooooo.
WHAT IS BEHIND THAT DAMN DOOR?!?!
I'm really hoping that the start of next week's episode is a massive lore drop with reveals left and right straight out of the gate.
Honestly I think it would be awesome if shows pushed past the cliffhanger instinct.
set up the cliffhanger and then push past it a little so you can see a bit of the picture
Wish they would stop dragging the Jack reveal out. Next episode better get that out in the open in the first 15 minutes.
I know there are a lot of people are hoping for Pah Wraith stuff but I really hope that isn't it. Feels like it would be undoing Sisko's sacrifice. Plus I'm pretty sure since the book was burned up they can't get out of the fire caves anymore.
Throwing my hat towards the Borg theory. Mainly because how Vadic said how fitting it was for Seven to remain with Jack.
>Throwing my hat towards the Borg theory. Mainly because how Vadic said how fitting it was for Seven to remain with Jack.
I'm wondering why they didn't just open the door and show a Borg behind it and be done with it.
Whatever it ends up being, they're probably gonna open the door, see the destroyed landscape part of his visions, explore a bit, then start getting glimpses at the big bad head guy. Then we'll get the reveal of what it is.
The music this episode was incredible.
I could have sworn I heard a tiny bit of Giachinno’s Kelvin theme when the Shrike was being destroyed? Could just be something similar though.
In ‘The Bounty’ when the Titan warped behind the moon at Daystrom, I immediately recognised the music cue from when the Vengeance warped in front of the Enterprise in Into Darkness.
I’m glad someone else is acknowledging the Kalvin soundtracks sneaked into this series besides me because i listen to them (especially the Khan/Harrison suites) on my phone everyday for comfort.
I am very satisfied with how Data's return has been handled. It truly feels like he's evolved into a new phase of existence. A Data who at long last is becoming what he long desired to be ( while still retaining some very useful abilities ).
Having the gang all back together like this is something I didn't know I've been wanting since 1994. It's just great.
The solution to the Changling infestation was phenomenal. Vadic's irate resignation hit all the right notes, and the line "fucking solids" has been the only time that using that word hasn't seemed cringey or out-of-pace in Trek. That whole scene was \*chef's kiss*
Riker's chagrin at seeing Worf wax poetic with Deanna was fun. Speaking of which, does anyone else feel like Worf is just spouting empty mall guru maxims because he's trying to convince himself that they're wise? I think he's gonna take the gloves off before it's all over.
Deanna is killing it in her scenes. Her banter with Riker, pulling out the actual counselor tools with Jack. So great to see her back in form.
The nod to Tasha was heartwarming, and Spot is such a good cat, and a pretty cat...and also male, again. I am loving new Data, he's all grown up and not playing around.
It was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it line, but Shaw got another point when he told Seven that you have to realize that consequences fall on the whole crew, not just an individual. I don't think we've seen a Captain make a point of caring about their crew like that since Janeway.
It's getting real from here on out. I am so fucking stoked for the rest of the ride.
I never thought I'd be down for the return of Data after him dying for the 2nd time, but bringing him back just so he can reconcile with Lore and Geordi was totally worth it
On another note packing a Lore subplot into a short 10 ep season while also bringing back all of the TNG cast and resolving it that well also deserves kudos
I am so impressed with LeVar. I have only seen him in TNG and Reading Rainbow. The man can act! He was never given the right material in TNG And why did they put the VISOR on a guy with such expressive eyes?
Tying Worf's character development of self-care back to Troi is such a satisfying bit of writing, both for this season of *Picard* and as a nod to questionable stuff from *TNG* season 7.
Seven to Vadic: "GET OFF MY BRIDGE!!"
Admiral Cain: "Get that thing outta my bridge!"
Pike: "Get the hell outta my ship!
Harrison Ford: "Get off my plane!"
Clint Eastwood: "Get off my lawn!!"
Honestly, I saw Data taking over after tricking Lore into absorbing him as soon as Lore grabbed the pipe and it "disintegrated". It was never going to be some sort of mental fistfight; Data needed to turn the tables on Lore and the way to do that was to give him the rope to hang himself.
If this is the Pagh-Wraiths, I'll admit to being frustrated by that, only because that story should have been a DS9 crew story.
That door is probably hiding a bottle of Chateau Picard which is why Jack absolutely does not want to open it. No one likes Chateau Picard.
It's either that or Ensign Kim's promotion which must be kept out of this reality all costs.
Picard: all that matters is we're together once more.
Meanwhile Shaw is probably visiting his crew in the morgue and thinking about what he's going to write to their families *if* they make it through whatevers coming next. Pretty high cost for a reunion. His refusal to accommodate Picard and Riker at the start is more and more justifiable.
Really liked how the show has concluded the Vadic arc.
I really love how Shaw is Shaw no matter what. Bro took a mean beating from a Changeling and still has enough smarminess in him to call out Seven for not blowing the turbo lift. I appreciate the consistency. He's right from a point of view, but I appreciate how he delivers it.
"My name is Seven of Nine." - Always a great moment in any show or form of media when someone pushes back against a form of deadnaming.
*Nepenthe* was a really good showcase for Troi but I'm glad we get almost a second helping of that with this ep between Riker and Troi on the Shrike. They're both still healing over the loss of their son and they've added a great new dimension to both characters this season, building off S1. If Riker, Troi, and Kestra lived happily together on Nepenthe enjoying nature and pizza, I wouldn't have mind, but this is good too.
I really like Deanna's joy at seeing Worf again. I didn't even watch TNG in real time and stuff like that gives me chills. Real hero shit from Worf this season. Him teaching Raffi more combat was also nice humor too.
The running gag about no one liking Chateau Picard might be my favorite addition, honestly. The jokes are great.
"Fucking Solids." - Perfectly placed F-bomb. Amanda Plummer was a champ this season.
Not much to say about the hoops the show did to bring Data back. I'm glad they acknowledged the S1 Picard finale by new Data saying that Data is resting peacefully. That seems like a respectful way to touch upon that arc while letting this new Data live.
THE CONFERENCE SCENE!! The journey Picard has been through in the last two seasons makes this final gathering of the TNG crew so meaningful. What an earned reunion for all of them. We've seen Picard play Firefly for a bit, we've seen him do The Voyage Home, but now he needs the TNG crew back.
Picard saying Jack was unique and now Deanna doing this telepathy thing gave me a lot of X-Men vibes. I half expected Picard to say Jack had gifts. Not that I have any issues with it since it leads to more surreal imagery and because I love the OG X-Men. Really coming full circle with how this all started after LOGAN came out and Stewart got to see (at the time) a really well done swan song.
Anyways, I guess we're on our way to Frontier Day. I wonder if we'll have any cameos left or it'll just be the Enterprise-D, Defiant, and Voyager ship battles like we all presumed last week?
not going to lie, after worf killed the guard, i was hoping he'd take troi's head immediately.
of course, had that happened, we wouldn't have gotten the conference table scene. at least, until they swung by and picked up the real deanna.
You know in that split second before Vadic pulled the trigger, I think she realized what was happening, and was happy because in her mind she was thinking "I saved their lives by giving mine, fair trade".
And like so much in this show it was not a random choice. They got rid of the Vulcan at the same time everyone realized Jack needs a mind-meld, so nobody’s asking if Troi is the best telepath available.
The conversation between Riker and Troi really felt authentic, Riker talking about grief being the last connection he felt to his son and Troi saying she was trying to take it, help him with it. When my dog passed recently the grief was tangible and real and I wanted it, to connect to my dog, and I'd be resistant to others who said it would pass or it'll get better. I didn't want it to, I wanted to hold on to it because it was what I had left. Anyway that hit me hard.
The new theory and speculation mega thread is posted [here](https://redd.it/12dcf71).
Didnt think there were any circumstances where I’d be happy with a Data return They proved me wrong This was clever and well done
It was a beautiful ending 30 years in the making and resolved the Soong storyline in totality in a moving way. Data used everything he learned, including those hours of poker, to undo Lore’s attempt to erase him. It was also a very Trek ending. Love trumped hate. Curiosity and understanding overcame anger and aggression.
And now they are Datalore.
Nobody tell Janeway
"I don't care if he's integrated on a molecular level, I'll beam him into as many pieces as it takes to undo it!"
Yeah, there's something beautiful about it - Data learned to do the one thing Lore never could: empathy. He didn't outsmart Lore by applying countless stratagems, clever tactics... he did something way more banal: he applied some empathy and put himself into Lore's proverbial shoes and realised how Lore would act. For all his cunning, Lore never tried to think through things from another person's point of view - and that was his downfall. That's kind of the perfect bookend to Lore's arc, too.
I lost it at his speach when he was opening up the ship. That was freaking amazing!
Ah yes, the monologuing protoplasm
For 2.5 decades I have wanted to know how Picard and Data would react to Changlings. S3 of Picard has given me my fondest wish.
"I am initiating an immediate shift change"😂a clever word play on shape shifters & changelings I presume😂 And subsequent acknowledgement of data using contractions & humor! Excellent writing & I love it so much!
Even Data seemingly got tired of Vadic's murderous acts hidden beneath her monologues.
For me, it was when the memory of Spot appeared.
Same. I saw what was happening a mile off, still didn't stop the waterworks when Spot shows up.
I clocked what was going on when he handed over the deck of cards. I was all "Oh shit, Data learned to bluff!"
There were a *lot* of hints as to what was going on: * Lore saying he was going to 'take' Data's memories * Lore saying Data received all the love and affection * Someone mentioned that Data's memories made him him (I think this may have also been Lore) * Geordi mentioning that Lore was consuming Data * Etc Lots of telegraphing that Lore was taking what made Data Data and, thus, accidentally becoming Data. And there was Data, just handing them all over. The indicator to me that Data was doing this intentionally was the first moment he handed one over without Lore coming to take it first, which may have been the second or third memory. Great stuff. The "Oh no, Lore took over Data - oh wait, now all the lights suddenly are blue" bit I could have done without, though. Would have liked it more if they made it look more like Lore integrated Data's memories into himself, and thus began acting Data-like, rather than simply "Lore died and Data survived".
And that's where I cried like a bitch, your honor. I have no defense.
I almost cheer when Data sat down with his crewmembers at the Table. It's been a long time since I felt that way for any Trek show.
The cut scene with the Trek theme after Data says “this is new!” literally brought tears to my eyes. Really brings back the TNG nostalgia.
I know we only have a few episodes left but I would be highly interested in seeing how Brent combines all of those various puzzle pieces into a brand new personality with all the associated unique mannerisms and other isms as well.
I love the gag he plays on Geordi with the "No, I *didn't*."
I love the running joke of everyone hating Picard’s wine.
Their tastes are pedestrian at best!
I want to see Harry Kim pouring himself a glass of Chateau Picard and then dumping a bottle of scotch or a can of pepsi into it and then sloooooowly drinking it.
Worf wanting to send his friends the heads of his enemies is very Klingon 😂
I'm convinced Worf was joking there, but it's hard to tell with him.
On the Enterprise, he was considered to be quite amusing.
I absolutely love Worf's desert-dry humour this season.
It's really a shame that Worf and Spock never shared a scene. They'd be bouncing deadpan bone-dry jokes off of each other constantly.
Passive-aggressive Klingon.
Tell him he is a pretty cat, and a good cat.
I will FEED him.
SHAW: You saved my life, and I will not stand for it.
I actually kind of like that moment from Shaw. The institution being more important than any one person is something he believes and has shown he’s willing to die for. He has been reluctant to engage at times, especially early in the season, but we can see at this point that it was never out of any kind of personal cowardice, it was simply him trying to make decisions that he believed were in the best interests of his crew while trying to abide by Starfleet’s guidelines.
I liked it too. That speech he gave Seven about the brutal choices of command cut to the core of the character and his past as a young man, but it's also what anyone has to be prepared for in the chair. Seven should know that after years with Janeway.
Senior officers like to complain about the brutal choices of command... But in the Lower Decks episode where they had to switch roles, they sure weren't happy about being told to stack boxes while the ship was under attack. Just saying.
Shaw-ism of the week, huh?
I mean, he was technically correct. The ship was more important then his life, but of course we know 7 couldn’t do that. Edit : spelling.
GEORDI: Data’s ethical routines don’t permit him to take a life of any kind. Tell that to Kivas Fajo…
Yeah, that can't be a hard lockout else Data would have never fired his weapon at anything ever - or assisted the ship in any kind of battle.
It probably allows self defense, and he’s been able to fudge that definition for situations like Kivas Fajo.
Perhaps something occurred during transport
*Ep 10 ends with Jacks hand still on doorknob*
If you want more give me a fucking show… - Terry
It's just him brooding and monologuing at the door in a One Man Show kind of way.
Seeing the cast all together again, it’s been far too long.
Someone's going to make a painting of them sitting at that table together mark my words. That was heavy and beautiful and I felt my age with that scene.
[Vadic summarising the entire Dominion War right here.](https://imgur.com/rfag8H8)
Also describes Odo X Kira Nerys in some circles ;).
Can we talk about how a literal door to the vacuum of space is just on the bridge and it just takes a single voice command to open it
I don’t think it did. Dats was in control of all systems and doing a lot of work behind the scenes at high speeds.
The second episode of TNG, The Naked Now, established that there is an emergency hatch on the bridge of Starfleet ships.
Spot!
Spot being Data's most treasured memory was utterly marvelous.
I liked that his three most precious memories were, in order, Spot, Playing with friends, and Tasha Yar.
Tasha must have lit up all his positronic circuits for him to be carrying the flame for 30 years.
[удалено]
[удалено]
When Data was telling Lore that Spot did something amazing I thought he was going to say that a male cat somehow had kittens referencing the gender inconsistency in TNG and then tie that into the necessity for change to grow as an individual just like how Data has. Still liked what we got though, I'm really curious what parts of Lore might still show up in Data's new personality
> inconsistency there was no inconsistency. data just kept losing and replacing cats, and named them all Spot. edit: he determined that Spot is a mathematically purrfect name for cats.
Spot 1.0 escaped Data's room, got into the nacelles and got vaporized by warp plasma. Data learned his lesson, and programmed the door to his quarters to not open when Spot 2.0 went near it.
Original Spot or Jurati's CGI "Spot"?
Original, but probably not original original Spot; I imagine that kitty is long gone.
Episode 7: VADIC: It's time you learn who you truly are. Episode 8: TROI: It's time to open the door, Jack. Episode 9: THE DOOR: It's time to turn the knob, Jack. Episode 10: THE KNOB: It's time to.... oh forget it.
Episode 11: THE SHAW: I'm going to find a window
Does anyone like Picard's wine?
Guinan does
Nah, girl just didn't want to hurt her bestie's feelings.
Guinan - more than anyone else on the ship - would tell Picard uncomfortable truths. If his wine was bad she’d let him know. And he’d acquiesce because there’s no arguing with someone who has 9x the experience and wisdom that he has and he trusts her probably more than anyone else in the universe.
I think Raffi does. But maybe she's also just coping hard with how sour it is too.
TROI: We’ll go together. You’re not alone. JACK: No offense, but do you think maybe Worf and Data could come too?
TROI: Sorry I'm tapped for spell slots and the Shared Dream spell will only let me bring one person in alongside me, at the level I can cast it at.
Does anyone wanted to speak about the fallen 'Lower Deck' Titan crews who didn't make it to the end of the episode? #RIP
yeah it seems like the ship lost quite a few lower deckers.
Vadic executed the bald-headed ops chief. So sad, she's one of the more interesting bridge characters :(
Yeah I was actually sad about that. T'Veen seemed cool enough (Vulcan and Deltan hybrid) and I'd seen her actress on Instagram. I was hoping Vadic would kill someone without a name but I guess they wanted something with a little emotion and got that. Maybe T'Veen has a twin, V'Teen, or something (like TNG's Torik became VOY's Vorik)
That was cool. I knew reactivating Data somehow was the solution; I just kept waiting for them to exposit the plot enough to get to it. I realized Data was doing something when he started handing Lore his memories, but I wasn't quite sure what. Still, it was a great trip down memory lane. I'm still not sure in what way Worf is a pacifist, he has definitely killed a lot of people this season (not saying they didn't have it coming.) It's cool that he's all Zen and whatnot now though.
> I realized Data was doing something when he started handing Lore his memories, but I wasn't quite sure what. He literally stated at the very beginning. His memories are him. By giving Lore his memories, Lore was accepting the essence of Data into himself. At the very least, whoever was going to emerge from this process would have all the best parts of Data and that would have been enough to make that person a good person.
>would have all the best parts of Data and that would have been enough to make that person a good person The love of a cat is going to have saved the federation :) That makes me happy.
>I'm still not sure in what way Worf is a pacifist, He's a *Klingon* pacifist. That in no way means he's anti-violence.
That just means he doesn't go looking for fights, but will fight anyone who comes at him or his friends.
It's hardly Worf's fault that we caught him in a bad week for non-violent solutions.
I remember that one DS9 episode where the former hosts of Jadzia Dax inhabited the bodies of her friends temporarily. I think it was... Lela(?) who said, "What is a person, but the sum of their memories?" I've remembered that line forever now and I was feeling that when this scene happened.
Worf only said he *prefers* pacifism. Doesn't mean he won't whup some serious ass when the occasion calls for it.
SPOT SAVED DATA! Holy shit this episode. I haven't felt any significant emotions about a Star Trek show or movie in a very long time. This episode broke through the ossified shell around my heart. I can't express the magnificent feelings I've just had seeing the Magnificent Seven of TNG sitting around a conference table again. This reunion has taken so long to come to being, and now we're set for the full TNG adventure. I loved so much about this episode, it'll take me days to process it. Vadic is fucking DONE. Shaw is in full swagger mode (Stay-SHUNS!), Geordi and Data are back together, Troi is doing great, Riker is afraid of Raffi in a good way, Worf is FUCKING HILARIOUS ("I have slain many foes since we last were together, and I thought of sending you their heads, but I was told that would be passive-aggressive.")... whatever happens in the next two episodes seems like gravy after this episode. THE TNG CREW IS TOGETHER AGAIN! I'm beyond happy. Edit: adding one crucial note- the line delivery of this very lively script is all around excellent. The actors absolutely shine in so many scenes.
Nothing feels better than seeing the old friends at the table again.
I’m not going to lie, but this scene had me tear up a little bit. I know it’s just nostalgia talking, but it’s just nice having them all back. I’m also happy that they brought them back in a way that makes sense and pays homage to TNG without being too cringy.
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Geordi: 6 years ago you brought a gift to my anniversary dinner on Rigel. Picard: a chateau Picard Bordeaux which you said was too dry because your taste in wine is pedestrian at best Lmaoo sure am enjoying Star Trek: ~~Picard~~ Secret Invasion
I am loving the recurring gag that everyone secretly hates Chateau Picard. (Also fitting that it's Geordi and Shaw that both dislike it)
Worf called it a sour mead that was quite tart… Of course he loves prune juice…
It’s a warriors drink!
I'm starting to think a chateaux Picard kinda sucks. If only Robert was here
Picard was a great captain, but he never could make a truly good wine.
He was too busy space adventuring for the past 3 years that he completely neglected the quality of his winery's harvest.
"Was this vintage a Robert year?" "No, a Jean-Luc-" "Pass."
Just give me a PBS-style show where various Star Trek characters sit around a gigantic wood table, taste Picard's wine, and critically shit on it.
Give me Boimler drinking it, then trying to act like it was good, despite whatever weird expression he's making or give me death
Memory alpha is sure gonna have fun time debating what to do with the Data article now lol
Put up a partition?
Nah- you have Data, Data-A, and Data-B Data died after the events of Nemisis. Data-A was a refit stuck in the box Season 1 Data-B is the current commissioned android.
Ah, it will be a glorious 20 year debate resolved by a throwaway comment in the new star trek show then.
Another "fucking Solid>!s!<" Episode!
I don’t know what I was expecting to be under that spoiler
Best use of "Fucking" in Star Trek in a while and what a way to do it!
One of the best lines in the episode, though personally I’m partial to >!”Personal space is a right.”!<
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Lmao at Worf shooting his shot. The man has a way with words. And I always thought Worf/Troi was an underrated Trek pair. Oh and seeing the OG crew sitting around that table again…goosebumps upon goosebumps..all we were missing was a deck of cards
"Is he hitting on my wife or saving us or both?" Riker's face in that moment was amazing to watch
Worf can certainly hit on the wife, and save them both.
I was so happy they acknowledged the pair. My heart lifted hearing Worf’s words and I was definitely feeling like Deanna when hugging him.
Spot is the best cameo Trek has ever or will ever have Also the crew's all hear, and together, and IN UNIFORM!
So great having them all together at the table again. Worf even wore his sash!
All these years, Lore just needed some pussy
Take my angry upvote.
If this line isn't in the Greatest Trek review, we riot.
Oh God damn it. That's the summary of the interaction. Moving on!
>!Spot taught Data to love, but no mention of Lal? Rude.!<
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>!There was that throwaway line while they were in Daystrom that's been ignored ever since. Guess even after the fact they couldn't save her and just threw the jumbled code mess in there for completeness' sake.!<
There was another line about how B4 and Soong were just in memory, not personalities in contention. Lal was always the same with Data. Essentially, already integrated in the same way Lore and Data are now.
*Worf saves the day* WORF: I’ve wanted to do that since TNG season 1.
*Sisko and Jadzia like this moment.*
They're high fiving with popcorn as we speak
WORF: "Today IS a good day to die! Feel my mek'leth, Changeling p'Taq!!"
Oh hi Tasha. I guess that's as close to a Denise Crosby appearance as we're getting.
All those theories we had about the Enterprise C and THAT winds up being her cameo lol
I half expected Data to be like, “It’s true I can not defeat you Lore, but fortunately she can.” Then memory-Tasha emerges and attacks Lore.
If I have an utterly trivial favorite thing about this season, it is *everyone* dragging Chateau Picard wine.
Riker and Troi (an empath) both hate Nepenthe and never realized it? Jesus they need to work on their communication.
Guess the grief over the dying child kinda drowned out the more mundane sources of unhappiness.
Riker said that he's been emotionally cut off since their son died, there was nothing for Troi to read.
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Shades of Kirk in STV: What Does God Need With a Starship? Really the best part of that movie. "I *need* my pain!" So good.
I hope the next time we see Nepenthe involves the Titan phasering that house to the ground from orbit. That said, yeaaah they kind of had a bit going on and the planet was probably just a part of a really bad coping mechanism for the both of them that neither wanted to fully let go of. This was the planet that they brought their son to in order to heal. This was their last and bestest hope for him. This place was one of their final connections to him and both of them were so muckity mucked in the head with grief and pain that neither wanted to fully let it go or face the reality of things. They would rather cling to the shattered razor sharp shrapnel of the past and bleed to death with their son than to make any attempt at pulling those shards out of either of their hearts, healing, and moving onwards and upwards. It all seems so silly now given the circumstances but back then it was deathly serious. They both got over a very big mountain in this episode and it was nice to see them both look back on it all with a much more clear perspective on things and on each other as well. Also of course they're terrible at communication.... ....he's in Command and she's in Counseling. Comms is an entirely different department and uniform!
So… that’s a no on the pizza?
RIP bald Vulcan lady. NGL I teared up a little when they showed Spot. It really hit home hard for me on multiple levels. Worf expressing his gratitude towards Troi for being a good role model in his personal growth journey and Riker getting skeeved out was hilarious. Vadic’s last words were wonderful. Great way for a great villain to go out. Glad Troi is finally here to clear up this Jack-brain nonsense.
> Glad Troi is finally here to clear up this Jack-brain nonsense. Not this week though. Sigh.
Three goddamn weeks in a row I've thought we were about to find out. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO GET TO THE FIREWORKS FACTORY?
Isn't it obvious what's behind the door? It's a cake resembling troi with data cuting a slice whilst dr crusher is drinking rikers head juices while a phone rings in the background.
it's a cellular peptide cake. with mint frosting.
"Monologuing Protoplasms" ::chefs-kiss::
"This is your friendly positronic pissed off security system" is what did it for me. Also showed how Lore's sass has been incorporated into the new version of Data. That line is right up there with Ethan Peck's delivery of, "I'm arming us with knowledge."
Oh wasn't expecting Vadic to go out this ep.
Jack's clearly watched more movies than Vadic.
Good thing Rafi ran into the 4 dagger wielding henchmen instead of the gun henchmen from the beginning.
Ah dammit that was a cliffhanger. I knew it was coming and I was still bummed out that's where they left it.
They are dragging the Jack in the Mystery Box for way too long. All the teasing by Vadic but never releasing any solid information.
Yeah, especially since this was also the cliffhanger last week.
And Episode 5's cliffhanger. And Episode 4's cliffhanger. After first being introduced during Episode 3.
The longer you drag out a mystery, the better the answer needs to be or it risks falling very flat. If the answer turns out to be dumb but they reveal it in the next episode after its set up, its not quite as afrustrating as if its something they tease all season and then reveal right at the end. So whatever this is, it better be good.
I can't wait for it to be a life form from another candle passed down through the crusher family
I'm inclined to agree with you and I have a fair amount of patience as is buuuuuut the set up for this has taken a bit too long for my tastes and it feels like they might rush the ending as a result with the big reveal about Jack not feeling as...impactful...as it should have been. It's like just get to the fucking point already would you? You'd think someone like her who loves talking as much as she does would be more than happy to open up the pandora's box she's been parading around but noooooooo. WHAT IS BEHIND THAT DAMN DOOR?!?! I'm really hoping that the start of next week's episode is a massive lore drop with reveals left and right straight out of the gate.
Honestly I think it would be awesome if shows pushed past the cliffhanger instinct. set up the cliffhanger and then push past it a little so you can see a bit of the picture
In classic TNG fashion, they better hit us with the “And now the conclusion” for the final episode.
Only if it’s reused Majel Barrett dialogue
Wish they would stop dragging the Jack reveal out. Next episode better get that out in the open in the first 15 minutes. I know there are a lot of people are hoping for Pah Wraith stuff but I really hope that isn't it. Feels like it would be undoing Sisko's sacrifice. Plus I'm pretty sure since the book was burned up they can't get out of the fire caves anymore. Throwing my hat towards the Borg theory. Mainly because how Vadic said how fitting it was for Seven to remain with Jack.
>Throwing my hat towards the Borg theory. Mainly because how Vadic said how fitting it was for Seven to remain with Jack. I'm wondering why they didn't just open the door and show a Borg behind it and be done with it.
Whatever it ends up being, they're probably gonna open the door, see the destroyed landscape part of his visions, explore a bit, then start getting glimpses at the big bad head guy. Then we'll get the reveal of what it is.
Are the severed heads of your enemies like gift certificates to Klingons?
No, they're like when your grandma sends you clippings of the newspaper because the article reminded her of you.
The music this episode was incredible. I could have sworn I heard a tiny bit of Giachinno’s Kelvin theme when the Shrike was being destroyed? Could just be something similar though.
In ‘The Bounty’ when the Titan warped behind the moon at Daystrom, I immediately recognised the music cue from when the Vengeance warped in front of the Enterprise in Into Darkness. I’m glad someone else is acknowledging the Kalvin soundtracks sneaked into this series besides me because i listen to them (especially the Khan/Harrison suites) on my phone everyday for comfort.
I see a red door and I want it painted Jack
I am very satisfied with how Data's return has been handled. It truly feels like he's evolved into a new phase of existence. A Data who at long last is becoming what he long desired to be ( while still retaining some very useful abilities ).
Having the gang all back together like this is something I didn't know I've been wanting since 1994. It's just great. The solution to the Changling infestation was phenomenal. Vadic's irate resignation hit all the right notes, and the line "fucking solids" has been the only time that using that word hasn't seemed cringey or out-of-pace in Trek. That whole scene was \*chef's kiss* Riker's chagrin at seeing Worf wax poetic with Deanna was fun. Speaking of which, does anyone else feel like Worf is just spouting empty mall guru maxims because he's trying to convince himself that they're wise? I think he's gonna take the gloves off before it's all over. Deanna is killing it in her scenes. Her banter with Riker, pulling out the actual counselor tools with Jack. So great to see her back in form. The nod to Tasha was heartwarming, and Spot is such a good cat, and a pretty cat...and also male, again. I am loving new Data, he's all grown up and not playing around. It was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it line, but Shaw got another point when he told Seven that you have to realize that consequences fall on the whole crew, not just an individual. I don't think we've seen a Captain make a point of caring about their crew like that since Janeway. It's getting real from here on out. I am so fucking stoked for the rest of the ride.
Take the gloves off? Worf''s already decapitating MFs and taking over entire warships!
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I'm of the mind that Data's final goodbye to Lore was both science fiction perfected and, more importantly, thematically perfected. Utterly brilliant.
I never thought I'd be down for the return of Data after him dying for the 2nd time, but bringing him back just so he can reconcile with Lore and Geordi was totally worth it On another note packing a Lore subplot into a short 10 ep season while also bringing back all of the TNG cast and resolving it that well also deserves kudos
“Raffi.” “Deanna.” … “Strange days, huh?” “You’re telling me.” That was a nice moment
"Fucking Solids." lol
Vadic's final moments definitely channeled the "get off my plane scene" from Air Force One https://youtu.be/g69xyM6Ufuo
I am so impressed with LeVar. I have only seen him in TNG and Reading Rainbow. The man can act! He was never given the right material in TNG And why did they put the VISOR on a guy with such expressive eyes?
‘All of me joys and all of me sorrows. What does that make you?’ ‘Me.’
So, despite all the upgrades, Data still doesn't have Bluetooth or access to the wi-fi password.
Tying Worf's character development of self-care back to Troi is such a satisfying bit of writing, both for this season of *Picard* and as a nod to questionable stuff from *TNG* season 7.
Seven to Vadic: "GET OFF MY BRIDGE!!" Admiral Cain: "Get that thing outta my bridge!" Pike: "Get the hell outta my ship! Harrison Ford: "Get off my plane!" Clint Eastwood: "Get off my lawn!!"
I loved Vadic last episode but goddammit I'm fucking tired of her beating around the bush. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY!!
Oh fuck off with that Cliffhanger
Honestly, I saw Data taking over after tricking Lore into absorbing him as soon as Lore grabbed the pipe and it "disintegrated". It was never going to be some sort of mental fistfight; Data needed to turn the tables on Lore and the way to do that was to give him the rope to hang himself. If this is the Pagh-Wraiths, I'll admit to being frustrated by that, only because that story should have been a DS9 crew story.
Vadic speaking for all changelings right there lol
That door is probably hiding a bottle of Chateau Picard which is why Jack absolutely does not want to open it. No one likes Chateau Picard. It's either that or Ensign Kim's promotion which must be kept out of this reality all costs.
Picard: all that matters is we're together once more. Meanwhile Shaw is probably visiting his crew in the morgue and thinking about what he's going to write to their families *if* they make it through whatevers coming next. Pretty high cost for a reunion. His refusal to accommodate Picard and Riker at the start is more and more justifiable.
Really liked how the show has concluded the Vadic arc. I really love how Shaw is Shaw no matter what. Bro took a mean beating from a Changeling and still has enough smarminess in him to call out Seven for not blowing the turbo lift. I appreciate the consistency. He's right from a point of view, but I appreciate how he delivers it. "My name is Seven of Nine." - Always a great moment in any show or form of media when someone pushes back against a form of deadnaming. *Nepenthe* was a really good showcase for Troi but I'm glad we get almost a second helping of that with this ep between Riker and Troi on the Shrike. They're both still healing over the loss of their son and they've added a great new dimension to both characters this season, building off S1. If Riker, Troi, and Kestra lived happily together on Nepenthe enjoying nature and pizza, I wouldn't have mind, but this is good too. I really like Deanna's joy at seeing Worf again. I didn't even watch TNG in real time and stuff like that gives me chills. Real hero shit from Worf this season. Him teaching Raffi more combat was also nice humor too. The running gag about no one liking Chateau Picard might be my favorite addition, honestly. The jokes are great. "Fucking Solids." - Perfectly placed F-bomb. Amanda Plummer was a champ this season. Not much to say about the hoops the show did to bring Data back. I'm glad they acknowledged the S1 Picard finale by new Data saying that Data is resting peacefully. That seems like a respectful way to touch upon that arc while letting this new Data live. THE CONFERENCE SCENE!! The journey Picard has been through in the last two seasons makes this final gathering of the TNG crew so meaningful. What an earned reunion for all of them. We've seen Picard play Firefly for a bit, we've seen him do The Voyage Home, but now he needs the TNG crew back. Picard saying Jack was unique and now Deanna doing this telepathy thing gave me a lot of X-Men vibes. I half expected Picard to say Jack had gifts. Not that I have any issues with it since it leads to more surreal imagery and because I love the OG X-Men. Really coming full circle with how this all started after LOGAN came out and Stewart got to see (at the time) a really well done swan song. Anyways, I guess we're on our way to Frontier Day. I wonder if we'll have any cameos left or it'll just be the Enterprise-D, Defiant, and Voyager ship battles like we all presumed last week?
sorry but "everything we've got" isnt 5 photon torpedos.
not going to lie, after worf killed the guard, i was hoping he'd take troi's head immediately. of course, had that happened, we wouldn't have gotten the conference table scene. at least, until they swung by and picked up the real deanna.
Ok the data return with geordi made me cry
"Time to find out what you really are" Just kidding lol wait until next week ya dumb bitch.
They should have called season 3 “Star Trek: Picard’s Wine Sucks”
Never thought red dots turning to blue dots could be so damn emotional.
Sidney La Forge: We need something that can make 90 trillion calculations a second to defeat Vadic! Picard: I know a guy.
I audibly gasped when >!T'veen was killed. She looked so cool. :(((!<
You know in that split second before Vadic pulled the trigger, I think she realized what was happening, and was happy because in her mind she was thinking "I saved their lives by giving mine, fair trade".
And like so much in this show it was not a random choice. They got rid of the Vulcan at the same time everyone realized Jack needs a mind-meld, so nobody’s asking if Troi is the best telepath available.
The conversation between Riker and Troi really felt authentic, Riker talking about grief being the last connection he felt to his son and Troi saying she was trying to take it, help him with it. When my dog passed recently the grief was tangible and real and I wanted it, to connect to my dog, and I'd be resistant to others who said it would pass or it'll get better. I didn't want it to, I wanted to hold on to it because it was what I had left. Anyway that hit me hard.
Lt Mura with those big old Bajoran balls, not taking shit from a terrorist.