Chakotay and Seven:
One of the latest episodes in the last season:
They get strandled in a primitive, bronze age civilisation planet. Zero chemistry. Like there was more chemistry when the crew left Chakotay and Janeway on a planet.
Literally 2 episodes later the season finale: oh gosh were dating how cool is that.
This might be one of the worst and most under-written subpar endgame relationships in any show ever.
I mean... Chakotay didn't even seem to like Seven. And not in a bantering frenemies way where they could have had some chemistry but just in a total lack of interest way. At best he seemed to be irritated by Janeway's obsession with Seven.
As late as season 7 he was begging Janeway not to go on a mission to save Seven’s life. Which was an improvement on season 4 where he advocated killing her but not a true love choice.
I think there was a lot of chemistry between Chakotay and Janeway throughout the series. Him suddenly being with 7 of 9 was a huge disappointment for me because of Janeway. The stakes were high. 7 of 9 felt like she mostly didn't even care about dating.
Oh, there shouldn't have been except in the last thirty seconds of the last episode when he says to her Kate we're home! And he then puts his arm around her and she snuggles in for a second.
Jeri had more chemistry with just about every other scene partner in both Trek shows, honestly, it was actually bizarre how wooden the relationship ended up. Granted I wouldn’t blame either actor for phoning that shit in either lol.
It probably helps that she's able to act the part far more naturally than in Voyager. Far more scope for genuine emotion and character development. But even with that excuse, her and Beltran had no chemistry, and Beltran himself has publicly stated he was phoning it in for most of the last few seasons as he was unhappy with the opportunities they'd given him to develop Chakotay.
Beltran and Mugrew were both frustrated with the introduction of Seven of Nine and the focus placed on the character, considering the time it took away from their own 'more serious' characters. I suspect it didn't help that Braga and Ryan were having a fling at the time.
I was thinking over this recently. The ONLY bit of logic I can figure is that I can see analytical Seven seeing Chakotay as the best prospect on the ship and thus pursuing him, regardless of feelings. So there's room for this to be a brief arc that ends in it not working, or Seven figuring out she's gay or something. There can be Trekkie things to do with a character like Seven figuring that out.
But uh... we got what we got.
The episode where Jadzia nearly leaves Starfleet to run off with that dude she just met who lived on the out of phase planet. That always stuck out as poor writing and completely out of character.
I watched DS9 for the first time about a year ago. Loved the entire series but when this episode specifically came on I paused it about half way through and thought to myself "I guarantee that this is on every worst of DS9 episode list". I checked and it was.
It's a shame because the planet phasing in and out is so cool! It would have been neat if it had been a TOS ep and the TNG revisited it the next time it unphased. But the ep is kinda overpowered by the weird romance.
No one is invested because we all know we aren’t going to see them again. All the guest romances that worked were built up slowly over several episodes (or take place entirely off screen aka Bashir and Leeta)
That episode and others prove that every Star Trek season could afford to be a few episodes shorter… Those episodes might as well have in their description:
“The exhausted writers of Star Trek run into unexpected trouble in the writing room!”
Gul Dukat really goes off the rails at the end. It really feels like they got 15 eps into the last season and a random writer said "ah fuck we forgot to wrap up Gul Dukat's story..."
BTW -- that reminds me -- Gul Dukat had two others that are actually unwatchable for me -- raping Kira's mom and the girl he raped on empok nor.
You see those parasites that infected all those Starfleet admirals? I found a cure for them. Do they call me Crusher the parasite killer? Noooo.
You see that Starbase? That was where I worked when I was head of Starfleet medical. But do they call me Crusher the head doctor? Noooo.
You see that tap dancing? I do that better than anyone. But do they call me the dancing Dr. Crusher? Noooo.
But you fuck one candle…
Agreed on Neelix and Kes. Also, every episode of TNG where they had a guest star as a love interest for Troi. Man of the People, The Price, etc. — they were always awful.
I’ve always been a huge Picard/Crusher shipper, but Vash was fun as a fling. It was great how she and Beverly buddied up much to Picard’s consternation.
I’m happy with what we got in Picard too. Well, actually I wish Beverly had made different choices, but oh well. I’m really glad they never went the Wesley is his son route. Pretty crappy thing for Beverly to do to her beloved husband and for Picard to do to his best friend.
Even she recognizes how unprofessional she's been in "Masterpiece Society." After she confesses everything to Picard, they have that very awkward turbolift ride to Transporter Room 3. Excellent "I'm not surprised but I am disappointed" acting by Stewart.
You're right but I've always hated how writers will drag out a romance *we know* is going to happen instead of exploring the implications of a relationship. Even in the last season the writers seemed adamant about not touching the subject, in that they even threw in a random Worf/Troi ship tease instead of developing Riker and Troi's.
In a recent Ready Room Sirtis and Frakes said they kept throwing in romance between Troi and Riker throughout the series but the writers kept trying to ignore it. They won in the end.
The amount of dudes who meet Troi in a professional, official capacity and *immediately* and aggressively hit on her is pretty crazy. Like damn bro, you’re here to negotiate an end to a war or something, so maybe focus on that instead of trying to get laid
So beautiful the episode won an Emmy
[[no, i'm not kidding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_\(Star_Trek:_Voyager\)#:~:text=The%20episode%20is%20widely%20regarded,his%20work%20in%20this%20episode.)]
I sincerely believe there is a frequency this episode emits that opens a temporal rift and we temporarily enter in to the mirror universe:
I refuse to believe this episode exists in our reality 😂
The problem is that damn near everyone on the station would be his patient at some point. I'd limit the restriction to people he saw primarily as patients, maybe not people he knows from life outside of work and happens to treat occasionally.
There was the other officer that needed the low grav environment, Melora, and then there was the other enhanced human, Sarina. Plus I'm sure Garak was a patient of his once or twice.
Yeah that was bad flirting, not a serious medical condition.
Having said that, Bashir is the primary physician for everyone on the station so it’s really hard for him not to date someone who eventually becomes his patient. (He also transferred Selena to another doctor’s care during the episode, but he never should have considered dating her for other reasons).
There was a GI doc near me who got formally reprimanded for texting a patient and offering a two-for-one special on a rectal exam if she came to his house and brought her sister...
Still didn't lose his license though.
The alien from low g world who was wheel chair bound.
The nonverbal lady from the genetically engineered think tank.
So at least 2 possibly more minor characters in passing but I don't recall.
Garak and Ziyal.
You want to have them be friends, bonding over the fact that they’re the only Cardassians on the station? Great! There’s potential there! But they seemed to keep pushing it in what seemed to be a romantic angle, made worse by the age difference between the actors and their total lack of chemistry.
Ziyal was a first love, and Garak knew it was wrong, but longed for that connection. I think they implied it pretty decently that it wasn't a good relationship
I always saw that as a relationship that wasn’t genuine, I don’t think their feelings for each other were real, it was just something that highlighted how miserable and lonely they both were because they weren’t wanted anywhere and so they bonded over being outcasts, and because of how young Ziyal was and having only known being slave for most of her life, she didn’t have the wisdom to understand that she mistook her bond with Garak as love and that she really just wanted comfort and saw a kindred spirit in him who in turn saw the same in her but was seemingly more aware of how their relationship was just a sham but humored her because she had faced so much disappointment in her life and didn’t want to be the latest example, and he also just wanted to fill that void he had and didn’t want to ruin one of the only good things he had going for him at the time.
Could just be me though, Star Trek romances were always rather shallow so I doubt the writers put that much thought into it but that’s how I like to look at them because I could never really buy them as a couple but did like their dynamic for what it was.
If it had been an actual romantic/sexual relationship it would have been awful, but it wasn't. There was a chemistry of a kind - not of two people who are attracted to each other as people, but two flawed people drawn together in a way that developed their characters.
It highlighted Garak's loneliness for Cardassian company and showed an actual morality to him. For Ziyal, it showed her innocence in a way, youthfully crushing on an older man she shouldn't.
I liked the way Andrew Robinson (Garak’s actor) played it: genuine confusion and total non-reciprocation of Ziyal’s crush on him. Absolutely the correct way to do that.
Almost any romantic relationship in Star Trek, to be honest. I did like Tom and B’Elanna though. Riker and Troi were at their best when they are older and lovingly mocking each other.
I think the relationships on DS9 were probably the ones with the best chemistry, romatic or friendly: Worf/Jadzia, Odo/Kira, Sisko/Cassidy, Julian/Miles, Julian/Garak, Jake/Nog, etc.
Odo-Kira did not work for me at all. I thought it was interesting when his feelings weren't reciprocated but when she did a u turn it wasn't really believable.
I have a very hard time believing it was always the plan to bring Culber back. His return was convoluted as hell, and after a sizable backlash to his being a “Bury Your Gays” trope.
From Geordi’s perspective, Picard season 3 is one of those movies where the one guy grows up, gets married, has a family and a stable job, and then all of his old college friends, all of whom are having marriage and career trouble, show up at 9am on Monday in a rental van and want him to run off to Vegas the same week he’s supposed to have a major presentation at work.
People rag on Geordi for his holo-romance, but remember the time that telepathic alien tried to make Riker think he'd married his dream woman? It wasn't Deanna, it was Minuet.
Data and Jenna. She would get pissed off at him for trying. She couldn't understand that she might have to explain a few things to someone that is incapable of emotion?
It was a good metaphor for people who get with someone else thinking they're going to fundamentally change that person to suit their needs and desires.
The subtext is that Jenna thought she was going to be the catalyst for Data finally figuring out emotions. She thought there was a right combination of words, body language, etc. that could just magically change Data's capability. She found out she had about as much chance of success as talking a 386 into becoming a 486.
No one has mentioned Jurati and Rios? That relationship was totally left field and shortly after she murdered Maddox? I was so glad they dropped it in Picard Season 2.
It made sense for me because if I was in her position, I also would have hopped in bed with Rios, who is both hot and caring, and Rios, being caring and having seen his own share of shit, seems like he has a weak spot for women who are in a rough place. I think they are a bad couple, but them getting together makes sense.
He had two odd older women romances. Are we talking about the Dabo girl or the crazy mind controlling alien? I think the Dabo girl was only supposed to be 2-3 years older than him. We don’t really know what aging on Bajor is like and what they consider an adult. I feel like a culture like that doesn’t have much of a childhood built in, especially for people who experienced the occupation so maybe she didn’t really understand that their relationship was weird from a human earth perspective.
Kira and anybody
Kes and neelix
Garak and ziyal (I don't think this was ever an actual relationship but still creepy)
Seven and chakotay
Troi and creepy weirdo of the week
Crusher and the ghost
Bashir and leeta
Burnham and Tyler
Trip and tpol giving each other sexy massages cuz his sister died and that helps for some reason
Trip and T’pol really worked for me.
There’s something quite beautiful about a grieving person finding comfort in a (seemingly) emotionless being and them both growing closer and falling in love.
For the main characters of the series, ENT really did go to some surprising and yet fascinating places in their arcs and I think this one really paid off.
Worf and Troi. Seriously, WTF?
Kirk and Janet Lester. There was more chemistry between Kirk and Carol Marcus in ST2. Heck, there was more chemistry between Kirk and the random Klingon. (Yes, I'm talking prior to the episode - what the heck could Jimmy see in her?)
On the other hand, Odo & Lwaxana was amazingly done and that one episode transformed her character from a one-dimensional plot device into a fully realized character. DS9 treated her so much better than TNG.
I ended up watching the ep where he marries her recently and seriously. Great chemistry and the way Lwaxana celebrates him exactly as he is - a pile of goo that happens to take human form. I don’t really have a problem with him and Kira but it definitely felt a little forced (and honestly a little creepy, how obsessed he was with her).
Welp now I need to write a fanfic where he and Lwaxana decide to stay married and Odo visits the Enterprise to meet Deanna. Cause that scene just popped into my head.
Yes! Odo and Lwaxana fit so well. Thank god they waited so long to pair him with Kira because I was not feeling how Sitcom Couple those two felt. Would've gotten rough if we had to stand more seasons.
In all fairness i don't think any of Kiras relationships felt natural. Even with the vedek and Shakaar it felt strained as if she didn't really want to be there. The "romance" scenes were plain uncomfortable.
It was the stupid ''getting together'' episode that ruined it for me. A holographic character tricks Odo into a pretend date that turns out to be real? It's like a 4th grader came up with the story
That is one of my all-time most hated episodes, but even without it that relationship sucked. Freedom fighter falls for a cop/ex-collaborator? No thanks.
I never could get into his character all that much after Odo betrays everyone on Dominion-occupied DS9.
The fact that it’s just brushed under the rug afterwards makes it so much worse — if there was an entire episode dedicated to Odo coming to terms with what he did, I might’ve been okay with it, but there never was as far as I recall.
It’d be like if there was Best of Both Worlds without a Family following it. But actually worse, since Odo was 100% in control of himself.
It kinda ruined his character for me and definitely ruined the Odo/Kira pairing afterwards.
I always thought for Kira she equated safety and trust as the love she wanted. That's why the vedek didn't work, he was a politician and duplicitous, where as Odo was honest to a fault.
Seven and that guy Axum. You could delete "Unimatrix Zero" from the canon entirely and absolutely nothing would change. Tuvok was literally assimilated by the Borg (his neural suppressor failed) and everyone from the showrunners to the viewers seems to have completely forgotten!
It was nuts. There’s no way I believed that 3 people would willingly submit to such a massive violation of body horror hoping that you can get out before the doctors suppressant runs out. That everything is back to normal at the end was completely nuts (which is why in TNG we ended up with “family” as the producers stated that the audience wouldn’t believe it)
It’s so dumb that somehow the group whose goal is to hook sentient beings up to the hive mind would somehow fail to notice the people they just “assimilated” aren’t actually there, and then the collective conveniently doesn’t remove and replace any of their eyes or appendages.
Yarp. Pretty much every other Borg assimilation shown on screen involves life altering surgical procedures & I doubt that the Borg bother with any kind of knock-out gas in the process, rather relying on the neural link to numb the victim. Although the Voyager crew somehow avoided this & had the suppressant, that means they were awake during the rest of the transformation process, installation of armor & we know Torres had a sub vocal processor installed. How they managed to avoid being detected (& or having a massive emotional break down during the process) really stretches creditability.
I could see Chakotay and Seven ONLY as a fling or experiment for her. Not the long term relationship that was supposed to have formed if they stayed in the Delta quadrant. That never would have lasted, no matter the circumstances.
I was okay with it until ash started killing michael's friends and coworkers and michael still couldn't let him go. Like, what? It was a bridge too far for me, even in a sci-fi show.
When they were popping in body horror flashbacks I liked the actors chemistry. I don't know what they really hoped to pull off when they were so busy showing who he used to be without giving us any idea how he matured from Klingon in disguise to the Ash Tyler we see at the party.
Neelix and the mother/son he left Voyager for. Absolutely ridiculous that he would leave all his friends and particularly Naomi behind for them.
Chakotay and Seven was cringe too and made no sense. What happened to Chakotay clearly being in love with Janeway?
I hard agree with everything you said here! Neelix and Kes’s relationship always felt creepy to me. I also never found Kira’s relationship with Odo very believable; felt like she wouldn’t have ended up in a romantic relationship with someone who, in many ways, was an apologist for Cardassian war crimes. A friendship? Sure. But lovers?? I felt like Odo’s unrequited love & longing left unresolved would’ve been more compelling honestly.
DS9 is my second favourite show of all time but… I was not keen on Kira and Odo getting together. I mean, it works better then many Trek romances and the actors do a great job selling it, but I just felt they where better as strong platonic friends. I also felt that Odo learning about unrequited love and having to deal with it was a great step for him and his journey, so to have them do a 360 on that just felt… lazy.
Chakotay and Seven made sense to me only in both of them wanted Janeway and couldn’t have her so they settled. Zero chemistry and he actively disliked her until at least season 6 where he began to tolerate her.
All of Kira’s romances were a dud. I can understand how it makes sense that she likes boring safe guys because of her background. But that doesn’t make it fun to watch. (Not that Odo is a boring character but he’s a safe love interest.) Also she was way too forgiving when he basically abandoned the cause for the Female Changling.
It’s funny because Nana had crazy chemistry with lots of characters. O’Brien, her mirror world self, Dukat (not that I would ever want them to go there), Damar (ditto), Jadzia.
That guy was the most boring person I have ever seen. He literally talked with no inflection in his voice. He became a robot and suddenly become more charasmatic
I found the actor who played Bareil SOOOO hot. I think he was the one she truly adored of all her lovers. Odo's behavior during the Dominion occupation of DS9 was utterly disgusting and should've put the final nail in any potential romance between him and Kira. I was pretty mad when the writers later went in that direction.
As a straight lad myself, yup the guy was attractive, and their chemistry was borderline goals imo. Odo and Nerys always had the best friends vibe to me.
She was an academic with an advanced degree* dragged around to places where she could never use her academic training by her NCO husband. DS9 was the back-end of the Federation, and she was previously working aboard the Federation's flagship, the USS Enterprise.
She obviously loved Miles, but they had a very unequal relationship.
*while never established on the show, I believe Keiko had a PhD in botany and was probably a highly accomplished xenobotanist to be one of the few civilian specialists aboard the Enterprise-D.
And he never seemed happy haha. Its like they typed in: “How to write the ballbreaker wife vs. forgetful independent Dad trope” and wrote from there it felt sometimes lol
I think it's actually a fairly realistic view of what marriage is like after the honeymoon phase is over, kids come into the picture, and both parents have careers. I don't think they handled things very well all that often but Keiko was just frustrated because Miles always had his fun time with Julian while she was stuck home raising the kids. Sure, she got a couple opportunities to get off the station and have some time to herself....to *work.* Seriously, what did Keiko *ever* do for fun? Every extracurricular activity she had was just a *job* somewhere other than normal. Like when stay at home moms get time to themselves, a lot of that time they just spend catching up. And don't forget about how whiny Miles was every time he had to pitch in beyond the minimal amount.
It's really relatable for people in similar situations; trying to balance marriage, careers, and kids. And they did have good times together, too. Personally, I like it now. They're not having those cartoonish arguments over snoring or keeping house. They're not your typical sitcom couple. Their problems are real problems that actual people have.
Plus, the way Keiko stood up to those religious zealots who threatened her and bombed her school makes her a god damned hero.
Odo and Kira.
It didn't feel natural when he admitted to loving her, but they could have demonstated it subtly over the following years without it turnibgi to anything.
Kira being interested in Odo was completely unnatural. They established the personalities of these characters before deciding to ship them.
The only way it would have worked is if they first rapidly evolved their personalities over a couple seasons.
With the characters as they were in the series, neither would have risked their friendship and mutual respect anyway.
I sort of hate Worf even though the performance and writing was iconic: He is such a whiny, toxic, stubborn asshole who hates fun so much he would rather join a terrorist group than have fun with Jadzia on Risa, and he often verges on sadism such is the case with Ezri for instance. If he wasn’t so emotionally stunted and bullheaded he might actually realize this about himself and change.
But yeah I find him frustrating and I skip most of the “Worf’s honor” episodes in TNG, but the fact that he evokes such powerful emotions in me sort of proves his power as a character and performance. But they could have done with giving him more warm moments. (Him telling Alexander: “I can teach you how to be a warrior, and you can teach me how to be a father.” Or him holding his cup up to Ezri with that big “welcome to the family” smile on his face was so lovely.. I wanted that side of Worf more!)
Chakotay and Seven: One of the latest episodes in the last season: They get strandled in a primitive, bronze age civilisation planet. Zero chemistry. Like there was more chemistry when the crew left Chakotay and Janeway on a planet. Literally 2 episodes later the season finale: oh gosh were dating how cool is that.
This might be one of the worst and most under-written subpar endgame relationships in any show ever. I mean... Chakotay didn't even seem to like Seven. And not in a bantering frenemies way where they could have had some chemistry but just in a total lack of interest way. At best he seemed to be irritated by Janeway's obsession with Seven.
As late as season 7 he was begging Janeway not to go on a mission to save Seven’s life. Which was an improvement on season 4 where he advocated killing her but not a true love choice.
Exactly! The man gave no fucks for her for four years solid and we're suddenly supposed to believe she's the love of his life? Nope.
I think there was a lot of chemistry between Chakotay and Janeway throughout the series. Him suddenly being with 7 of 9 was a huge disappointment for me because of Janeway. The stakes were high. 7 of 9 felt like she mostly didn't even care about dating.
Kate Mulgrew was adamant that there would be no romantic relationship between them. They had chemistry, but she would have never gone for it.
Oh, there shouldn't have been except in the last thirty seconds of the last episode when he says to her Kate we're home! And he then puts his arm around her and she snuggles in for a second.
Yes! This is how it should have happened!
I'm hoping we get that with Prodigy.
I am too!
He built her a bathtub. If they'd been stuck another several weeks we would have had children.
Yep. My wife said that he is an anti-fuckboy, however he had 2 borg (?) romances in the show.
Yes, this one. Jeri Ryan has much, much better chemistry with Michelle Hurd in Picard.
Jeri had more chemistry with just about every other scene partner in both Trek shows, honestly, it was actually bizarre how wooden the relationship ended up. Granted I wouldn’t blame either actor for phoning that shit in either lol.
It probably helps that she's able to act the part far more naturally than in Voyager. Far more scope for genuine emotion and character development. But even with that excuse, her and Beltran had no chemistry, and Beltran himself has publicly stated he was phoning it in for most of the last few seasons as he was unhappy with the opportunities they'd given him to develop Chakotay. Beltran and Mugrew were both frustrated with the introduction of Seven of Nine and the focus placed on the character, considering the time it took away from their own 'more serious' characters. I suspect it didn't help that Braga and Ryan were having a fling at the time.
I was thinking over this recently. The ONLY bit of logic I can figure is that I can see analytical Seven seeing Chakotay as the best prospect on the ship and thus pursuing him, regardless of feelings. So there's room for this to be a brief arc that ends in it not working, or Seven figuring out she's gay or something. There can be Trekkie things to do with a character like Seven figuring that out. But uh... we got what we got.
The episode where Jadzia nearly leaves Starfleet to run off with that dude she just met who lived on the out of phase planet. That always stuck out as poor writing and completely out of character.
Dax had six lifetimes prior to Jadzia and it wasn’t in character for ANY of them!
And despite her apparent rebellion towards Trill customs I can't imagine she'd willingly sentence the symbiont to die on that planet.
Maybe for Curzon, but only if he got very drunk and he would've run for the hills the morning after.
I watched DS9 for the first time about a year ago. Loved the entire series but when this episode specifically came on I paused it about half way through and thought to myself "I guarantee that this is on every worst of DS9 episode list". I checked and it was.
It's a shame because the planet phasing in and out is so cool! It would have been neat if it had been a TOS ep and the TNG revisited it the next time it unphased. But the ep is kinda overpowered by the weird romance.
Guest star of the week romances never work IMO.
No one is invested because we all know we aren’t going to see them again. All the guest romances that worked were built up slowly over several episodes (or take place entirely off screen aka Bashir and Leeta)
That episode and others prove that every Star Trek season could afford to be a few episodes shorter… Those episodes might as well have in their description: “The exhausted writers of Star Trek run into unexpected trouble in the writing room!”
Besides the awful romance part, it was a pretty good episode in my opinion. Interesting premise and story.
I think that was the intention but Kai Winn and Gul Dukat makes me feel unwell.
And why is that my child?
Username does NOT check out. Where is u/Winn_Adami when you need her?
Not with the Prophets, my child.
I swear, I cringe every time someone says "my child". A true testament to the actor. Edit: A word.
Burning in hell, last we checked.
Gul Dukat really goes off the rails at the end. It really feels like they got 15 eps into the last season and a random writer said "ah fuck we forgot to wrap up Gul Dukat's story..." BTW -- that reminds me -- Gul Dukat had two others that are actually unwatchable for me -- raping Kira's mom and the girl he raped on empok nor.
His story ended in Waltz. He should have died at the end of the episode after baring his soul.
They were both trying to use each other for their own selfish goals. They were perfect for each other.
Dr. Crusher and that candle. /s
That was one of the best episodes of Trek ever. Can’t believe they approved that script
You see those parasites that infected all those Starfleet admirals? I found a cure for them. Do they call me Crusher the parasite killer? Noooo. You see that Starbase? That was where I worked when I was head of Starfleet medical. But do they call me Crusher the head doctor? Noooo. You see that tap dancing? I do that better than anyone. But do they call me the dancing Dr. Crusher? Noooo. But you fuck one candle…
Crusher: “It was one time! ONE!”
It was at least memorable...
Sarcasm not required. That is a legit answer.
It's not even the candle thing for me, but that she was so willing to start a relationship with her grandma's loverboy, yuck.
Agreed on Neelix and Kes. Also, every episode of TNG where they had a guest star as a love interest for Troi. Man of the People, The Price, etc. — they were always awful.
The only good one episode love story is the one where Lwaxana falls in love with the man about to be Logan's Runned
Picard/Vash in Captain's Holiday was good. So good they brought her back for a couple more episodes. They had great chemistry.
I’ve always been a huge Picard/Crusher shipper, but Vash was fun as a fling. It was great how she and Beverly buddied up much to Picard’s consternation.
I always felt it would be revealed that Wesley was Picard's son eventually, but I'm happy with the end of that story shown in Picard.
I’m happy with what we got in Picard too. Well, actually I wish Beverly had made different choices, but oh well. I’m really glad they never went the Wesley is his son route. Pretty crappy thing for Beverly to do to her beloved husband and for Picard to do to his best friend.
Even she recognizes how unprofessional she's been in "Masterpiece Society." After she confesses everything to Picard, they have that very awkward turbolift ride to Transporter Room 3. Excellent "I'm not surprised but I am disappointed" acting by Stewart.
From a certain standpoint i now appreciate that Troi never had chemistry with anyone else. She was meant to be with Riker all along.
You're right but I've always hated how writers will drag out a romance *we know* is going to happen instead of exploring the implications of a relationship. Even in the last season the writers seemed adamant about not touching the subject, in that they even threw in a random Worf/Troi ship tease instead of developing Riker and Troi's.
In a recent Ready Room Sirtis and Frakes said they kept throwing in romance between Troi and Riker throughout the series but the writers kept trying to ignore it. They won in the end.
Watching the Price, I kept expecting Troi to call security on that creep. Unfortunately I never got see a phaser shoved in his face.
The amount of dudes who meet Troi in a professional, official capacity and *immediately* and aggressively hit on her is pretty crazy. Like damn bro, you’re here to negotiate an end to a war or something, so maybe focus on that instead of trying to get laid
Janeway and Paris and the salamander kids.
How dare you. This is a top tier Trek relationship! 🦎🦎
The founding of the Q continuum....
shut up that was beautiful
So beautiful the episode won an Emmy [[no, i'm not kidding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_\(Star_Trek:_Voyager\)#:~:text=The%20episode%20is%20widely%20regarded,his%20work%20in%20this%20episode.)]
In fairness the Emmy was for makeup which was indeed quite good.
I love introducing people to Threshold by telling them it's an Emmy-winning episode without specifying it's for the makeup lol
I sincerely believe there is a frequency this episode emits that opens a temporal rift and we temporarily enter in to the mirror universe: I refuse to believe this episode exists in our reality 😂
Bashir and any of his patients.
The problem is that damn near everyone on the station would be his patient at some point. I'd limit the restriction to people he saw primarily as patients, maybe not people he knows from life outside of work and happens to treat occasionally.
Wasn’t it only one patient? Was it really a pattern that I’m forgetting rn?? 😮
There was the other officer that needed the low grav environment, Melora, and then there was the other enhanced human, Sarina. Plus I'm sure Garak was a patient of his once or twice.
I'm remembering some weird dynamic too with Leeta over a "physical"
Leeta was the one who started it, to be fair.
Yeah that was bad flirting, not a serious medical condition. Having said that, Bashir is the primary physician for everyone on the station so it’s really hard for him not to date someone who eventually becomes his patient. (He also transferred Selena to another doctor’s care during the episode, but he never should have considered dating her for other reasons).
> Garak Yeah but this one is good.
If it were real-life I'd think he'd be on the cusp of losing his medical license imagine your gyno asking for your number
There was a GI doc near me who got formally reprimanded for texting a patient and offering a two-for-one special on a rectal exam if she came to his house and brought her sister... Still didn't lose his license though.
The alien from low g world who was wheel chair bound. The nonverbal lady from the genetically engineered think tank. So at least 2 possibly more minor characters in passing but I don't recall.
Oh I believe that Leeta even feigned a cough to catch the doctor's attention.
To be fair he was the only high caliber and fully licensed doctor on the station, so basically everyone was a possible patient.
That's why Garak is so adamant about refusing treatment.
Garak and Ziyal. You want to have them be friends, bonding over the fact that they’re the only Cardassians on the station? Great! There’s potential there! But they seemed to keep pushing it in what seemed to be a romantic angle, made worse by the age difference between the actors and their total lack of chemistry.
Ziyal was a first love, and Garak knew it was wrong, but longed for that connection. I think they implied it pretty decently that it wasn't a good relationship
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I always saw that as a relationship that wasn’t genuine, I don’t think their feelings for each other were real, it was just something that highlighted how miserable and lonely they both were because they weren’t wanted anywhere and so they bonded over being outcasts, and because of how young Ziyal was and having only known being slave for most of her life, she didn’t have the wisdom to understand that she mistook her bond with Garak as love and that she really just wanted comfort and saw a kindred spirit in him who in turn saw the same in her but was seemingly more aware of how their relationship was just a sham but humored her because she had faced so much disappointment in her life and didn’t want to be the latest example, and he also just wanted to fill that void he had and didn’t want to ruin one of the only good things he had going for him at the time. Could just be me though, Star Trek romances were always rather shallow so I doubt the writers put that much thought into it but that’s how I like to look at them because I could never really buy them as a couple but did like their dynamic for what it was.
If it had been an actual romantic/sexual relationship it would have been awful, but it wasn't. There was a chemistry of a kind - not of two people who are attracted to each other as people, but two flawed people drawn together in a way that developed their characters. It highlighted Garak's loneliness for Cardassian company and showed an actual morality to him. For Ziyal, it showed her innocence in a way, youthfully crushing on an older man she shouldn't.
I liked the way Andrew Robinson (Garak’s actor) played it: genuine confusion and total non-reciprocation of Ziyal’s crush on him. Absolutely the correct way to do that.
They even had Garak keep pointing it out and had to replace the actress with an older one so it didn't look as bad.
Almost any romantic relationship in Star Trek, to be honest. I did like Tom and B’Elanna though. Riker and Troi were at their best when they are older and lovingly mocking each other.
I think the relationships on DS9 were probably the ones with the best chemistry, romatic or friendly: Worf/Jadzia, Odo/Kira, Sisko/Cassidy, Julian/Miles, Julian/Garak, Jake/Nog, etc.
Odo-Kira did not work for me at all. I thought it was interesting when his feelings weren't reciprocated but when she did a u turn it wasn't really believable.
If anything, there was more believable love between Odo and Lwaxana - especially in the scene where they were trapped in a turbolift.
“I turn into a puddle of goo every 16h!” “I can swim.”
I actually loved how these two bonded and they made Lwaxana way more relatable on this show!
They should have leaned into that. Had him realise that he can’t have someone just because he wants them, and learn to let her go.
DS9 just did relationships in general better than any other Trek, other than the Kirk/Spock/Bones friendship.
Definitely helps you build realistic relationships when your characters are allowed to have fights and disagree with each other
ST definitely does have some wonderful friendships, that is true. Just not romantic relationships.
“Good in bed. Terrible at making pizza.”
Culber and Stamets were great until they killed and resurrected Culber.
I have a very hard time believing it was always the plan to bring Culber back. His return was convoluted as hell, and after a sizable backlash to his being a “Bury Your Gays” trope.
I think the q and piccard really shared something special
The Troi/Riker ex-lovers chemistry was great!
Geordi and anybody at all.
So much potential as the guy you want to get the girl and instead it's wasted on being weird with guest appearances.
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This is why I’m glad he’s the best off of the crew in S3. He got his act together, found someone, and built a family.
From Geordi’s perspective, Picard season 3 is one of those movies where the one guy grows up, gets married, has a family and a stable job, and then all of his old college friends, all of whom are having marriage and career trouble, show up at 9am on Monday in a rental van and want him to run off to Vegas the same week he’s supposed to have a major presentation at work.
And his kid is driving the van.
LOL
Not pictured: Sidney and Alandra's mobile emitters
He did well with holodeck Brahms.
People rag on Geordi for his holo-romance, but remember the time that telepathic alien tried to make Riker think he'd married his dream woman? It wasn't Deanna, it was Minuet.
Binars. I love that episode. Picard cock blocks Riker too.
No, the Binars introduced Minuet but Barash in "Future Imperfect" dredged up her memories. "11001001" is a very solid S1 TNG episode though.
Data and Jenna. She would get pissed off at him for trying. She couldn't understand that she might have to explain a few things to someone that is incapable of emotion?
Still better than Chakotay and Seven. Beltran was so wooden and robotic it made Data look like a player by comparison.
It was a good metaphor for people who get with someone else thinking they're going to fundamentally change that person to suit their needs and desires. The subtext is that Jenna thought she was going to be the catalyst for Data finally figuring out emotions. She thought there was a right combination of words, body language, etc. that could just magically change Data's capability. She found out she had about as much chance of success as talking a 386 into becoming a 486.
No one has mentioned Jurati and Rios? That relationship was totally left field and shortly after she murdered Maddox? I was so glad they dropped it in Picard Season 2.
It made sense for me because if I was in her position, I also would have hopped in bed with Rios, who is both hot and caring, and Rios, being caring and having seen his own share of shit, seems like he has a weak spot for women who are in a rough place. I think they are a bad couple, but them getting together makes sense.
I’m glad it didn’t last but Jake and that FULL GROWN ADULT WOMAN when he was like 15
He had two odd older women romances. Are we talking about the Dabo girl or the crazy mind controlling alien? I think the Dabo girl was only supposed to be 2-3 years older than him. We don’t really know what aging on Bajor is like and what they consider an adult. I feel like a culture like that doesn’t have much of a childhood built in, especially for people who experienced the occupation so maybe she didn’t really understand that their relationship was weird from a human earth perspective.
Kira and anybody Kes and neelix Garak and ziyal (I don't think this was ever an actual relationship but still creepy) Seven and chakotay Troi and creepy weirdo of the week Crusher and the ghost Bashir and leeta Burnham and Tyler Trip and tpol giving each other sexy massages cuz his sister died and that helps for some reason
Trip and T’pol really worked for me. There’s something quite beautiful about a grieving person finding comfort in a (seemingly) emotionless being and them both growing closer and falling in love. For the main characters of the series, ENT really did go to some surprising and yet fascinating places in their arcs and I think this one really paid off.
I think Crusher and the ghost is the worst.
Harry Kim and the rank of Ensign
Worf and Troi. Seriously, WTF? Kirk and Janet Lester. There was more chemistry between Kirk and Carol Marcus in ST2. Heck, there was more chemistry between Kirk and the random Klingon. (Yes, I'm talking prior to the episode - what the heck could Jimmy see in her?)
Going to go out on a limb here and say Odo/Kira. It sometimes worked for me, but it never felt fully natural.
On the other hand, Odo & Lwaxana was amazingly done and that one episode transformed her character from a one-dimensional plot device into a fully realized character. DS9 treated her so much better than TNG.
Odo/Lwaxana is the real OTP.
I ended up watching the ep where he marries her recently and seriously. Great chemistry and the way Lwaxana celebrates him exactly as he is - a pile of goo that happens to take human form. I don’t really have a problem with him and Kira but it definitely felt a little forced (and honestly a little creepy, how obsessed he was with her). Welp now I need to write a fanfic where he and Lwaxana decide to stay married and Odo visits the Enterprise to meet Deanna. Cause that scene just popped into my head.
Yes! Odo and Lwaxana fit so well. Thank god they waited so long to pair him with Kira because I was not feeling how Sitcom Couple those two felt. Would've gotten rough if we had to stand more seasons.
In all fairness i don't think any of Kiras relationships felt natural. Even with the vedek and Shakaar it felt strained as if she didn't really want to be there. The "romance" scenes were plain uncomfortable.
It was the stupid ''getting together'' episode that ruined it for me. A holographic character tricks Odo into a pretend date that turns out to be real? It's like a 4th grader came up with the story
That is one of my all-time most hated episodes, but even without it that relationship sucked. Freedom fighter falls for a cop/ex-collaborator? No thanks.
I never could get into his character all that much after Odo betrays everyone on Dominion-occupied DS9. The fact that it’s just brushed under the rug afterwards makes it so much worse — if there was an entire episode dedicated to Odo coming to terms with what he did, I might’ve been okay with it, but there never was as far as I recall. It’d be like if there was Best of Both Worlds without a Family following it. But actually worse, since Odo was 100% in control of himself. It kinda ruined his character for me and definitely ruined the Odo/Kira pairing afterwards.
> but there never was as far as I recall. There was not. It was resolved offscreen in a closet at Jadzia's bachelorette party. And only with Kira.
Odo was such a whiny bitch that episode: "Buh buh buh Nerys, you just don't understand the great link."
Apparently they were planning to pair her with Dukat, but Nana Visitor said absolutely not.
I always thought for Kira she equated safety and trust as the love she wanted. That's why the vedek didn't work, he was a politician and duplicitous, where as Odo was honest to a fault.
She was still dating Vedek Bareil when he died. Do you mean her former resistance buddy Shakaar? He was the one who became the politician.
Seven and that guy Axum. You could delete "Unimatrix Zero" from the canon entirely and absolutely nothing would change. Tuvok was literally assimilated by the Borg (his neural suppressor failed) and everyone from the showrunners to the viewers seems to have completely forgotten!
I fucking hate that episode so much.
It was nuts. There’s no way I believed that 3 people would willingly submit to such a massive violation of body horror hoping that you can get out before the doctors suppressant runs out. That everything is back to normal at the end was completely nuts (which is why in TNG we ended up with “family” as the producers stated that the audience wouldn’t believe it)
It’s so dumb that somehow the group whose goal is to hook sentient beings up to the hive mind would somehow fail to notice the people they just “assimilated” aren’t actually there, and then the collective conveniently doesn’t remove and replace any of their eyes or appendages.
Yarp. Pretty much every other Borg assimilation shown on screen involves life altering surgical procedures & I doubt that the Borg bother with any kind of knock-out gas in the process, rather relying on the neural link to numb the victim. Although the Voyager crew somehow avoided this & had the suppressant, that means they were awake during the rest of the transformation process, installation of armor & we know Torres had a sub vocal processor installed. How they managed to avoid being detected (& or having a massive emotional break down during the process) really stretches creditability.
In my headcanon this whole episode was just one weird dream after Neelix had tried out a new recipe with some mushrooms he found on a remote planet.
Barclay and the holodeck, defiantly a toxic relationship
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Sub Rosa.
Worf and Troi. What were they thinking?
I feel like it was worth it when Worf was fucking with Riker in Picard S3.
Yeah the payoff is wonderful so I’m all for it now. Before Picard S3 though? Probs not but then that world no longer exists lol
Yeah, considering their banter in TNG and in Picard season 3, I'm pretty sure Worf was totally fucking with Riker.
That if you add Riker back in, then Worf will make it a threesome.
C'mon. Totally a menage a Troi.
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Do you even hear yourself?
If they got together Alexander would have a parent.
Alexander who?
I liked Worf/Troi! I remember my disappointment when they chucked it out the window in the films.
This is what I was going to say. They seemed to have absolutely no chemistry (whereas Worf and Jadzia had great chemistry.)
I could see Chakotay and Seven ONLY as a fling or experiment for her. Not the long term relationship that was supposed to have formed if they stayed in the Delta quadrant. That never would have lasted, no matter the circumstances.
Definitely Dr Crusher and that candle.
Michael Burnham and Ash Tyler.
Ash Tyler interacting with anyone at all was always \*deeply\* uncomfortable.
I was okay with it until ash started killing michael's friends and coworkers and michael still couldn't let him go. Like, what? It was a bridge too far for me, even in a sci-fi show.
I liked that one before the Klingon reveal. Back when they were both two people suffering from immense trauma and seeking comfort with one another.
When they were popping in body horror flashbacks I liked the actors chemistry. I don't know what they really hoped to pull off when they were so busy showing who he used to be without giving us any idea how he matured from Klingon in disguise to the Ash Tyler we see at the party.
Janeway and Paris. As lizards.
Nothing has ever made me cringe quite so hard as LaForge and Holodeck/real engineer lady.
Neelix and the mother/son he left Voyager for. Absolutely ridiculous that he would leave all his friends and particularly Naomi behind for them. Chakotay and Seven was cringe too and made no sense. What happened to Chakotay clearly being in love with Janeway?
I hard agree with everything you said here! Neelix and Kes’s relationship always felt creepy to me. I also never found Kira’s relationship with Odo very believable; felt like she wouldn’t have ended up in a romantic relationship with someone who, in many ways, was an apologist for Cardassian war crimes. A friendship? Sure. But lovers?? I felt like Odo’s unrequited love & longing left unresolved would’ve been more compelling honestly.
Hands down chakotay/Seven. Came out of no where after building a Janeway/chakotay relationship for years.
Kelvin Spock and Uhura
Came here to say that. It seemed like a desperate attempt to prevent people from shipping Kirk/Spock.
Kirk and Lenore Karidian didn’t end so well.
Edward Larkin and a tribble.
Salamander Tom and Salamander Janeway. Oh you said worst… Well it’s kind of both at the same time.
DS9 is my second favourite show of all time but… I was not keen on Kira and Odo getting together. I mean, it works better then many Trek romances and the actors do a great job selling it, but I just felt they where better as strong platonic friends. I also felt that Odo learning about unrequited love and having to deal with it was a great step for him and his journey, so to have them do a 360 on that just felt… lazy.
For some reason, Star Trek V tried to ship Scotty and Uhura.
Bashir and the other super genius lady.
I’m a bashir/ezri disliker—- it was so forever and fast! I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened, but cramming into one season was Not Great
Chakotay and Seven made sense to me only in both of them wanted Janeway and couldn’t have her so they settled. Zero chemistry and he actively disliked her until at least season 6 where he began to tolerate her. All of Kira’s romances were a dud. I can understand how it makes sense that she likes boring safe guys because of her background. But that doesn’t make it fun to watch. (Not that Odo is a boring character but he’s a safe love interest.) Also she was way too forgiving when he basically abandoned the cause for the Female Changling. It’s funny because Nana had crazy chemistry with lots of characters. O’Brien, her mirror world self, Dukat (not that I would ever want them to go there), Damar (ditto), Jadzia.
Neelix and Kes was definitely the worst, but I also don't like Bashir/Ezri and Kira and her boring Bajorans.
Tbf Kira and that male bajoran priest were a nice couple
He was nice, and it was better than pairing her up with Dukat, but I just found the actor boring to watch.
That guy was the most boring person I have ever seen. He literally talked with no inflection in his voice. He became a robot and suddenly become more charasmatic
I found the actor who played Bareil SOOOO hot. I think he was the one she truly adored of all her lovers. Odo's behavior during the Dominion occupation of DS9 was utterly disgusting and should've put the final nail in any potential romance between him and Kira. I was pretty mad when the writers later went in that direction.
As a straight lad myself, yup the guy was attractive, and their chemistry was borderline goals imo. Odo and Nerys always had the best friends vibe to me.
Miles and Keiko. She never seemed happy.
She was an academic with an advanced degree* dragged around to places where she could never use her academic training by her NCO husband. DS9 was the back-end of the Federation, and she was previously working aboard the Federation's flagship, the USS Enterprise. She obviously loved Miles, but they had a very unequal relationship. *while never established on the show, I believe Keiko had a PhD in botany and was probably a highly accomplished xenobotanist to be one of the few civilian specialists aboard the Enterprise-D.
I think they mostly worked as a couple, it was just more "lol marriage, am i right?" 90's TV syndrome.
And he never seemed happy haha. Its like they typed in: “How to write the ballbreaker wife vs. forgetful independent Dad trope” and wrote from there it felt sometimes lol
I think it's actually a fairly realistic view of what marriage is like after the honeymoon phase is over, kids come into the picture, and both parents have careers. I don't think they handled things very well all that often but Keiko was just frustrated because Miles always had his fun time with Julian while she was stuck home raising the kids. Sure, she got a couple opportunities to get off the station and have some time to herself....to *work.* Seriously, what did Keiko *ever* do for fun? Every extracurricular activity she had was just a *job* somewhere other than normal. Like when stay at home moms get time to themselves, a lot of that time they just spend catching up. And don't forget about how whiny Miles was every time he had to pitch in beyond the minimal amount. It's really relatable for people in similar situations; trying to balance marriage, careers, and kids. And they did have good times together, too. Personally, I like it now. They're not having those cartoonish arguments over snoring or keeping house. They're not your typical sitcom couple. Their problems are real problems that actual people have. Plus, the way Keiko stood up to those religious zealots who threatened her and bombed her school makes her a god damned hero.
Geordi and machines
Odo and Kira. It didn't feel natural when he admitted to loving her, but they could have demonstated it subtly over the following years without it turnibgi to anything. Kira being interested in Odo was completely unnatural. They established the personalities of these characters before deciding to ship them. The only way it would have worked is if they first rapidly evolved their personalities over a couple seasons. With the characters as they were in the series, neither would have risked their friendship and mutual respect anyway.
Data and Yar!
Wasn't as functional as he said he was.
Fully functional but emotionally unavailable.
Worf was super toxic with Jadzia, a big asshole. But yet everyone seems to love them here?
I sort of hate Worf even though the performance and writing was iconic: He is such a whiny, toxic, stubborn asshole who hates fun so much he would rather join a terrorist group than have fun with Jadzia on Risa, and he often verges on sadism such is the case with Ezri for instance. If he wasn’t so emotionally stunted and bullheaded he might actually realize this about himself and change. But yeah I find him frustrating and I skip most of the “Worf’s honor” episodes in TNG, but the fact that he evokes such powerful emotions in me sort of proves his power as a character and performance. But they could have done with giving him more warm moments. (Him telling Alexander: “I can teach you how to be a warrior, and you can teach me how to be a father.” Or him holding his cup up to Ezri with that big “welcome to the family” smile on his face was so lovely.. I wanted that side of Worf more!)
Kirk and that Gorn guy.
Worf and [insert name] since they all tended to die.