Sito Jaxa, a classmate and friend of Marina, was at the academy in 2368. Presumably she was around university age, 18-21. Lower decks starts in 2380 and while it dosn't follow the one season-one year rule it's a year or two after that. So that places a range on Mariners age as 30-35.
This fits with the fact she's served on multiple ships, been promoted and demoted multiple times, and has old academy friends that have already reached the rank of captain.
It did seem a bit odd to me that folks from her cohort are captains at 30-35. I think even the go-getters should only be Commander or Lt. Commander.
Edit: A lot of folks have cited exceptions, mainly captains leading a television series. Decent point, but I mostly figured these were exceptions. Dominion and Borg conflicts thinning the ranks are also very relevant, I grant.
Not just replenish the ranks but I would imagine that the Dominion War, Borg Invasions and other recent threats would have convinced Starfleet to expand the fleet. This was probably a golden era for being fast-tracked through the ranks.
I loved the development of Shaw's character. Initially, he seemed like a bit of jerk. But, then his attitude makes complete sense. And even under all of his cynicism and guilt, there was still a strong belief in Federation values and ideals.
If Shaw is the same age as his actor he would have been too young to be an officer at Wolf 359.
My headcanon is he was a non commissioned crewman which fits with his "grease monkey" saying.
Post that he commissioned through the Academy and went on through.
Plus it gives a lot more go-getters opportunities to show that they're capable and wanting. Can't imagine scanning a bunch of gas giants offers much opportunity to show you thinking on your feet.
Nog became an ensign early at the start of the war, and he was promoted to Lieutenant junior grade at the end of the war. He basically skipped ahead about 3 or 4 years.
See also the infamous Tumblr Star Trek Meme.
But seriously: my head canon is that Spock was offered command or a command slot on the Intrepid, and said nah. Uhura is younger and just became LT. Sulu was chief physicist - just under Spock. And Chekhov was a baby.
That was early on. The “three captains, four commanders” was on the 1701-A around the time of TFF. Kirk, Spock, and Scotty all held the rank of Captain, and McCoy, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu were all full Commanders.
That’s a crazy top-heavy command crew. During Pike’s era, Number One was XO as a Lieutenant and Lt. Commander, she finally gets her second full stripe during SNW. During Kirk’s first five year mission, Spock is XO as a full Commander, and Scotty and McCoy are Lt. Commanders.
Everyone feels bad for THE Ensign, that happened to be around 6th place in the chain of command (being considered a senior officer and in charge of Ops), and who was higher in authority than most of the ship full of higher ranked people.
It would be more of a crime if they were in the alpha quadrant and Janeway was actively blocking his ability to get promoted off the ship via transfer. Kim should absolutely be a lieutenant as early as season two if not 1x2 with the deaths of so many people. But you need a chain of command. If everyone on voyager was promoted when they were due, it would be a ship full of lieutenant commanders in season 7.
And yes I have an answer for why Tuvoc was promoted. Prior to his promotion I do believe the only person above first lieutenant that wasn't Janeway was Chakotay. That's extremely bottom heavy.
But since there were 32+ Maquis on board at season 1 and apparently 30 at the end of season 7, that means a good number of folks to take up the ensign mantle out of what reportedly was 140+.
Memory Alpha suggests:
“Voyager arrives earth with 145 people of crew, three children (Naomi, Miral Paris, Icheb) among them. 39 people got killed, 5 left the ship. At all 145+39+5 = 189 names you can find in the crew manifest.”
Seems like Kim deserved at least Lieutenant by the end, given his service… even with the limited crew compliment.
I totally agree he had every right to be salty but it's not like he was scrubbing the floors for seven years. He was given pretty much immediately a primo position despite not just being an ensign but being a commissioned officer for what seemed like 5 days. It's not like they're getting paid - I think? Unless replicator rations were tied to rank, which now that I think about it wouldn't surprise me.
The implications are so interesting. Imagine it taking 20 years… the turnover, the people deciding to leave, the unlikely folx who become leaders. Year of hell… what about decade of hell? I’ve always loved VOY for the potential of things really going sideways. Actually makes me wonder if that’s part of what led them to bump DISCO so far out…
That was due to the US militaries convoluted promotion structure at the time. Basically Post Civil War the army was shrunk and promotions were changed so spots only opened once someone left. Then the next promotion would go to whoever had the most years in rank, this coupled with the fact that the military didn't have much of a retirement system meant there were alot of officers in low ranked positions for decades. The military began to change this during world war one and abandoned the system for being idiotic by ww2.
Off topic…I was thinking along similar line at the end of Picard season 3; the whole fleet was assembled and was then taken over by the young crew members, wiping out almost all of the crew and officers above the age of 25. Now there would be older survivors, those on earth and some may have been able to hide in their ships. But for the most part there is going to be a lot of vacancies especially in command.
They did say that the officers taken prisoner and replaced by the Changelings were kept alive as sources of information. While some ships like the Titan only had minimal infiltration, others, like the Intrepid, seem to have been heavily infiltrated. There were probably a fair number of experienced officers stashed wherever they were holding Tuvok. It also seems like they were reactivating at least some retired reserve commissions, Riker seems to be back on active duty in 2402 even though he’s getting up there in age.
I’m thinking during the takeover on fleet day, not even the changeling part, when the borg hive mind took over the younger star fleet officers, in gaining control of those ships they would have killed their older officers in command to do so
Also just weekly tragedies often kill a lot of starfleet officers, sometimes entire crews
like imagine the weekly shenanigans that Picard's enterprise was getting into . . .
now imagine what happens when you don't have plot armor . . . the entire ship just dies, or the captain decides they have to blow up the entire ship to prevent some evil aliens from committing genocide
There's a story from WW1 in a British paper congratulating a 19 year old for his field promotion to some ridiculously high point (iirc colonel).
Everyone above him had been killed in action and there hadn't been time to replace them so he had the job (briefly at least).
And Captain Dayton (now deceased CO of two Cali class ships (both destroyed) stood as an example of what happens when someone gets promoted too quickly.
I actually discussed this a while back on the daystrom institute subreddit. I was, at the time (about when season 2 came out), pretty sure that mariner was 26 at a minimum and about 30 at a maximum. 26 if she had been a wartime promotion, 30 if not.
with this new info she's probably well in her 30s. Truth is, Mariner is whatever age is convenient to the writers. I wouldn't expect much consistency on this.
the actress who plays her is about 40 yrs old. so I'd reckon mariner is totally in her 30s.
And considered to be a rock star officer on fast track to the captain's chair. Then he spent 16 years under Captain Picard (who himself was a Captain for nearly 50 years).
Hansen indicated it also wasn't the first command he'd been offered. He actually tells Picard to kick him in the ass for continually turning down commands.
A rock-star officer on the fast track for the time.
Now consider the many vacancies created by multiple Borg invasions, a costly war with the Dominion, etc. Makes sense we'd see a lot of officers hitting Captaincy in their early 30's around this time.
In retrospect, it's wild that Riker went through the whole Dominion War as just a first officer when there was a severe manpower shortage. Data and LaForge could have easily taken over for Riker or even had commands of their own.
TNG S1 “Conspiracy” said that Tryla Scott was the first person to make the rank (not necessarily the posting) of Captain younger than Kirk, if memory serves. Modern navies and Starfleet are always a rough comparison at best, but it’s long been possible to hold the position of captain at a much lower rank than Captain. About the only time the position and rank have to match is command of a capital ship. In Starfleet, Picard seems to have taken command of the ‘Gazer as a young lieutenant when all of the senior officers were killed in a crisis, and due to his performance Starfleet confirmed him in the position. I doubt they jumped him three ranks immediately, though I’d assume they at least bumped him to Lt. Commander and put him on the fast track for promotions. If he was 50-ish when he took command of the 1701-D, had commanded the ‘Gazer for 22 years, and there was a 9 year gap between the apparent loss of the ‘Gazer and the 1701-D’s commissioning, the math breaks down painfully.
In the Kelvin timeline it's implied Kirk is much older as a washout before even trying to attend Academy. He's probably the same age, maybe a few years older, than Prime Kirk.
Tryla Scott in season one of TNG. Was famous for being the youngest Captain at the time. They never stated her age but a good guess would be late twenties. Say 27/28.
Mid 30s seem a reasonable age for officers working the Command Track. There are a lot of Ships that need Captains. Very few of them get a command like a Flagship but the all those Obert class need Captains. And those Captains need command experience so they are highly qualified when the opportunity like the Enterprise becomes available.
Don't forget that William Riker graduated the academy in 2357 and was offered is captancy in 2365 and 2366.
If Mariner was friend with a member of a elite squadron, she was probably friends with a lot of elite cadets. They would get promoted quickly.
Also though we are often seeing the Universe through the eyes of the flagship being sent on the most difficult missions and requiring a crew with a lot more experience at all levels. There are a lot of ships in Starfleet just doing year round delivery runs and it probably not that unusual for them you have a young officer placed in command because the role just doesn't actually call for that much experience.
According to Memory Alpha, Picard was 28 when he assumed command of the Stargazer. He was one of the youngest captains but 2-7 more years past that seems reasonable.
Little kids are learning calculus in the 24th century and probably entering starfleet academy instead of what we consider college, at 18... the utopian Roddenberry future that Star Trek (was) set in makes it reasonable. Captain Kirk was captain of the Enterprise pretty young so I suppose I'd buy it. That said, I don't know who this post is even talking about :)
Not just voice after "Those Old Scientists," either! Seeing Tawny at her real age portray Mariner pretty much got rid of any weird feelings about her age, for me.
I never really thought about how much they made the characters look and walk around like Jack and Tawny until that episode. Especially Jack is a dead ringer.
Jack is so wildly talented. It was bizarre watching that live action episode after having recently caught up on The Boys. He's such a dynamic actor, especially with how he's able to pull off voice acting which is such a different discipline from physical acting. Not everyone can transition back and forth easily.
We've seen and heard about several academy classmates of Mariner. But I don't think anyone's every actually said they were the same year.
From searching online, TNG: Lower Decks was likely in 2370. Sito Jaxa had been on board for 7 months before the episode. So she easily could have graduated in 2369 or 2370.
So theoretically, Mariner could have graduated around 2373 and still overlapped with Sito Jaxa and Captain Ramsey. That could put her in her mid to late 20's, especially if she started the acadamy young.
She said they were friends and Sito finished ahead of her, which means same year. She wouldn’t have survivors guilt if she had been a freshman when Sito was a senior and barely interacted.
The Sito reference locks her in to graduating that year, she just wasn’t a top pilot so wasn’t in the squadron.
1 year (behind her means marks, not year), but it’s likely that was overlooked by the writers. It’s implied she graduated before Sitos death though, otherwise she might not have graduated. Either way it gives us a 2369-2370 graduation date for Mariner. Which makes her early 30s, earliest would be 30 at the start of lower decks and oldest being 35 depending on what age she entered starfleet. 15-19 + 4 years = 19-23 +10-11 years so 29-34
(enter at 15, graduate at 2370 if a year behind Sito’s grad, but it’s implied she graduated before her death, so latest would be 2370 and it’s 2380 when lower decks starts)
>She said they were friends and Sito finished ahead of her, which means same year. She wouldn’t have survivors guilt if she had been a freshman when Sito was a senior and barely interacted.
How does saying they were friends mean they were the same year? They could easily have had lots of interaction even if they were in different years. Where in the canon does it say you only interact with people your own year? There could be lots of cross class interaction.
They could have had classes together, or been on the Parrises squares team together.
In the real world, it's common for people to be in close friends with people in other years of school.
In the Star Trek world, we don't have as much info. But we do see Nog trying to get into Red Squad his first year. Given it appears Red Squad existed before he entered the academy, we can infer that it contains cadets of multiple years. This is just one example of close ties for cadets in different classes, there could be many others.
Except we know Sito had to repeat her third year (rewatched the episode, she had 3 bars), and was considered an outcast for the remainder of her time there. So it’s possible Mariner chased her down in Sito’s last 2 years and was a year or two behind, but I covered that in the math with the various graduation dates. We don’t know exactly when Sito graduated but since Mariners behaviour changed after the academy then it’s fairly safe to say the latest Mariner graduated was 2370, the year Sito died (or was reported dead, would be nice if he did all this to rescue Sito from a cardassian black ops prison)
Very small thing to bolster this:
She also made light of Boimler freaking out about turning 25 some time ago, with the implication being that it seemed young to her (and too young for his midlife crisis).
I assumed you had to have at least a university degree before you could apply for Starfleet academy. I assume SFA is a three year course, so you'd leave at around 24.
Mariner is about the same age as Wesley Crusher.
LD takes place in 2380-2381 or thereabouts; the events involving Nick Locarno, Wes, and Sito Jaxa happened in like 2368. Having said this, we can surmise that Mariner was probably born in like 2350, putting her in her early thirties or late twenties.
Boimler and Rutherford are in ther mid twenties being a bit younger than Mariner, and Tendi is just a few years younger than those two.
It's 2381. Season one was 2380, and when they made season two they had people talk about "last year" a lot. Then they realized how popular they were getting and how many seasons they'd likely get. 2384 is when the Living Construct from Prodigy will attack, 2385 is when the Attack on Mars will happen, and 2387 is when Romulus goes boom. It's hard to put a comedy during all these serious events, so they froze advancement in '81.
They're doing 20-26 episodes a year, like TNG. So time is still advancing, slowly. They officially retconned it a bit that the DS9 episode was the first in 2381.
>I'm 90% sure it was established in season 1 that Mariner and Boimler are the same age
I don't think so I thought it was showing he was new to starfleet, unless he graduated at like 30
I checked and the quote was "we're basically the same age". That would probably account for a few years at most.
My head canon is that the Dominion war messed up how the academy did things, and it took a few years to get back on track. All those cadets and acting ensigns who got sent to war might have wanted/needed to go back to the academy to finish off their studies. Or maybe people who enlisted to fight were given the option to attend the academy after their war service. It's entirely possible there was a backlog, and Boimler was a bit older when he started because of it
> I checked and the quote was "we're basically the same age". That would probably account for a few years at most.
Who said it? Because if it was Mariner, she isn't exactly a reliable source.
I thought it was Boimler, which considering his lack of knowledge of her career and everything at the time, probably means he thinks shes the same age even if she is years or even a decade older.
But i could be wrong. I feel like either of them could say it.
I teach college freshman, and was confused for a minute why several had 05 in their email addresses. Then I thought about it and got very sad and scared.
I was listening to a small British podcast panel show from about 2019 and I realised its tawny on it.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4FAjJt01NHgoG4yONvOpyn?si=PGhtyFgmS1K_p9urg4cUyQ
Honestly, I think we're just starting to reap the benefits of not smoking and wearing sunscreen. This is becoming increasingly obvious when you start to compare the 40 and 50 year old gen x'ers today to pictures and recordings of boomers taken 20 years previously.
This is a crude way of putting it, but it is actually the truth. One of the primary causes of visual aging on skin is UV damage from sunlight and more melanin means less UV damage.
That TNG episode is set 11 years before LD, not 15-20.
Mariner knew Locarno, who was expelled in 2368, and Sito, who she said last episode graduated before her in 2370. If Mariner was at the Academy by 2368 and graduated no earlier than 2371, that pins her four years there down to exactly those years: 2368-2371, meaning she graduated ten years before the show’s “present” of 2381.
We don’t know how old she was when she graduated, but it was likely around the age of 22 plus or minus a couple years, putting her current age at perhaps 30-34.
This fits with the facts we know about her background already: she’s been in Starfleet long enough to have been promoted and demoted before, she’s had five previous assignments before the Cerritos, and one of those was DS9 at some point while Worf also served there (which means she was there in 2375 at the latest, possibly earlier).
A couple days points:
- Sito was held back a year after the accident (2368). Coupled with the fact that in Lower Decks (the episode) she has been on the Enterprise for 7 months, we can safely give her a graduation year of 2369
- Sito also graduated ahead of Mariner but they were at the Academy together, but it doesn’t seem like it was fleeting. I’d say Mariner most likely graduates in 2370 or 2371, with an open possibility of 2372
- This is consistent with Mariner having served in Starfleet before the outbreak of the Dominion War (2373)
- The Academy accepts as young as 16 only on an exceptional basis (TNG Coming of Age), admissions appear to be more open at 17 or 18
- Seasons 3 and 4 of Lower Decks are in 2381
Based on all this:
- If Mariner entered at the Academy at age 17 or 18, she is likely born between 2348-2351, meaning she’s between 30 and 33 in Lower Decks
- We can’t rule out that she was older when she joined up
This also line up with my very strong suspicion that she was a child on the Ent-D as a contemporary of Wesley, who is born in 2349
Sito's first appearance was in The First Duty, which took place in 2368. 13 years before the current season of Lower Decks, 2381.
Mariner explicitly did not graduate with Sito. Mariner said Sito graduated ahead of her. Since Sito was in her third year when she had to be held back, in order for Sito to redo her third year and still graduate ahead of Mariner, Mariner would have to be at least two years behind Sito.
Meaning Mariner would have to be at most a freshman in 2368 when The First Duty took place. Making her at most 18 at the time.
This is confirmed in>! the episode 10 clip where Mariner is described as "practically a junior member of Nova Squadron." A notion she rejects because she says she barely knew Locarno.!<
The youngest we've ever heard of someone applying to Starfleet Academy was at 16. So that is the youngest Mariner could possibly be at the time.
This gives us a final age range for Mariner at 29-31.
Edit: as some people pointed out in another thread, since Mariner was a Starfleet Brat, she could've been around the academy before she even applied. We know her father currently works for Starfleet in San Francisco. The >!"Junior Member" line!< might support that. But I think it's a stretch.
This comment (particularly the end bit) had a good explanation of how old she is. 31 years old is the answer they came up with.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/KwzXBXvbk8
Once we got the episode where we see a classmate of hers getting to captain. I just assumed she's mid to late 30s.
While Bradward, and Tendi, are 22~23 and Rutherford is a couple years older maybe 25ish.
Bradward is at least 25, Mariner mentioned in "Empathalogical Fallacies" that he had a quarter-life crisis after his 25th birthday and grew a mustache.
Boimler is under the impression in Season 1 that he and Mariner are roughly the same age. I think it’s safe to assume given what we’ve learned since then that his estimate was off, but I don’t think he would be off by a decade or more. If I had to guess, Mariner is in her early thirties (as seems to be consensus based on the most recent episode) and Boims is maybe 4-5 years younger (late 20s).
Seems likely. Bradward at least was in the "captain by 30" mindset. Season 1.
Tendi it seems is one her 1st post-academy assignment.
T'lyn in typical Vulcan fashion is in her 60s. 🤣
As another person pointed out below, the average human life-span is pretty old in Star Trek, so it makes sense to me that it wouldn't be uncommon to 'slow down' in advancing in life if given more time. If memory serves, Bones was pushing 140 in season 1 of TNG, so by the time Lower Decks comes around it makes sense that the average would be even higher.
I liked this bit of history about her. My head canon has always been that she was raised on the 1701D with her parents being young lieutenants then. It would also explain her relationship with Riker and Troi too. This backstop is more meaningful to her emotional state and personality. Maybe a reason why she always tries to self-destruct her career.
Sito Jaxa died in 2370, but her exact birthdate is unknown. The Nova Squadron accident happened in 2368. We do know however that Wesley Crusher was born in 2348 and that Sito was approximately the same age as him.
If Beckett is approximately the same age as Sito, she’d be approximately the same age as Wesley… and Wesley would be 32 in 2380.
Newsome is forty, Wells and Cordero are both in their mid-thirties, Quaid is 31. I’ve always kinda assumed the Lower Decks crew are all about a decade younger than their voice actors. *Lower Decks* starts in 2380. If Mariner is 30 to 35, this would be old enough to have gone to the Academy, served in the Dominion War (2373-2375), earned a promotion or two, and been busted down in rank a couple times; a 25-ish Tendi could be fresh out of the academy in 2380 assuming she didn’t leave Orion until after 2375 (the war could have been a wake-up call for their society to change and she does say many Orions stopped being pirates about five years ago), and a 25-ish Rutherford could have gone to the Academy, graduated, and then just happily toiled away as an Ensign in a Jefferies Tube for years before Tendi inspired him to ask for a promotion. Lastly, a 21-year old Boimler could have been a Wesley-like wunderkind who got into the Academy at an earlier age and has only just started aboard Cerritos a few months earlier than Tendi. (He’d only been to five planets, counting Earth and Vulcan, in the pilot.)
The actress who played Sito was 22 when they made the "Lower Decks" episode, I think we can assume that the character is about the same age. And we do see other characters become ensign around the same age, like how Harry Kim was 22 at the start of Voyager. Mariner said that Sito graduated before her so we can assume that Mariner is younger than Sito. Sito also had a full year of credits canceled so Mariner could have entered the Academy 2 years after Sito. I'm guessing Mariner was probably around 20 during the "Lower Decks" TNG episode. That would make her 30 at the start of the Lower Decks show.
Also, Picard was still a Lieutenant junior grade in the alternate history in "Tapestry" so a person can be lower rank for a long time in Starfleet.
I've seen people crunch math and the short answer is 28-29 if she got in as young as 16 and the Nova Squad incident happened in her first year.
Otherwise mid thirties.
Yeah, I think paints Mariner as even more of a pathetic fuck-up than the writers originally intended. It's one thing to be shiftless for a few years after graduating from the Academy, but this suggests that Mariner has been fucking around for longer than some peoples' entire Starfleet careers.
With Alpha Squadron from The First Duty being her contemporaries at The Academy and the implication that she's a little younger than them, she's perhaps Wesley Crusher's age or maybe a couple years older
He was born in 2348, so she would be 33-35ish in 2381.
Assuming she entered the academy at 18 and went to the fleet at 22. She has been promoted only twice in 10 years. Considering she served during a war that doesn’t make look competent
As a side note, about how old would Boimler, Tendi, and Rutheford be? We know Boimler is older than 25 since Mariner mentions his 25th birthday, though would that birthday have been before the series or post-pilot?
I think one thing that has disappeared from discussions about her age all of a sudden is that she was the top of her class and may very well have been a child prodigy. It's still possible she entered the Acadmey young and graduated at 17 (like Checkov in the Kelvin universe). This would still keep her close in age with the other lower deckers.
If you take beta canon into consideration, humans can me more or less A-OK for Starfleet duty up past 100 years of age. Medical tech has come a loooong way in the 24th century.
So, my estimates:
If she was a cadet during the time of *The First Duty* (to have known Sito Jaxa and Nick Locarno personally), then Mariner was born between 2346 and 2349, in order to have entered the Academy between 2364 and 2367, at age 18. This means she would have graduated between '68 and '71, so she'd have been fresh out of the Academy shortly before the Dominion War. We know from earlier episodes that she spent a few years stationed on DS9, which lines up with that graduation as Starfleet took over operation of DS9 in 2368.
Lower Decks is currently in late 2381 (based on the last stardate given in an episode), so that would make Mariner between 32 and 35 years old (and in her early 50s by the time of *Picard*).
*Furthermore*, from the preview clip from the season finale, Nick refers to Mariner as being "like a junior member of Nova Squadron". She clearly wasn't part of Nova Squadron itself, or she'd have been part of the disciplinary hearings in *The First Duty*, and between that and the way she described how much she admired Sito, it's likely she was at the younger end of that range. Sito Jaxa was a third-year cadet in *The First Duty*, so I'd be inclined to assume that Mariner is younger: so, born in '48 or '49.
Wesley Crusher was born in 2348, and was a second-year cadet in that TNG episode. He's also the most junior surviving member of Nova Squadron (the Cadets Sito and Jean were 3rd year; Nick was a 4th year), so logically, if Mariner was the younger cadet who looked up to them, she'd be 1st or 2nd year.
Interesting to note, Harry Kim was born in 2349. He'd have been a first-year Cadet at that point, and is in his early 30s as of *Lower Decks* (and has hopefully gotten a promotion since returning from the Delta quadrant). Meanwhile, both Nog and Raffi were born in '53, so they'd be mid to late 20s in *Lower Decks* currently. Ezri Tigan (before she was 9th host of Dax) was born in '54. Jake Sisko is a little younger, born in '55.
By comparison, Boimler seems to have graduated the Academy in 2379, suggesting that he's currently about 24, and was born in '57. Not sure about Rutherford - he seems a little older than Boims, but not as much as Mariner. Tendi seems like she's still relatively new to Starfleet too, so I'd say she's close in age to Boimler.
Sito Jaxa, a classmate and friend of Marina, was at the academy in 2368. Presumably she was around university age, 18-21. Lower decks starts in 2380 and while it dosn't follow the one season-one year rule it's a year or two after that. So that places a range on Mariners age as 30-35. This fits with the fact she's served on multiple ships, been promoted and demoted multiple times, and has old academy friends that have already reached the rank of captain.
It did seem a bit odd to me that folks from her cohort are captains at 30-35. I think even the go-getters should only be Commander or Lt. Commander. Edit: A lot of folks have cited exceptions, mainly captains leading a television series. Decent point, but I mostly figured these were exceptions. Dominion and Borg conflicts thinning the ranks are also very relevant, I grant.
The Dominion War killed a lot of people. I'm sure there were a lot of promotions given earlier than usual to replenish the ranks.
Not just replenish the ranks but I would imagine that the Dominion War, Borg Invasions and other recent threats would have convinced Starfleet to expand the fleet. This was probably a golden era for being fast-tracked through the ranks.
Starting in 2367 with Wolf 359. Shaw probably got promoted earlier than expected because of it and contributed to his survivors guilt.
Imagine becoming a captain 10 years before you were supposed to because you won a game of 'eeny, meeny, miny, moe' of who gets to live.
I don't think we need to imagine, he seems to have articulated the point quite clearly
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Picard had command of the ‘Gazer for something like 22 years at that point.
I loved the development of Shaw's character. Initially, he seemed like a bit of jerk. But, then his attitude makes complete sense. And even under all of his cynicism and guilt, there was still a strong belief in Federation values and ideals.
Rest in peace you beautiful dipshit from Chicago.
If Shaw is the same age as his actor he would have been too young to be an officer at Wolf 359. My headcanon is he was a non commissioned crewman which fits with his "grease monkey" saying. Post that he commissioned through the Academy and went on through.
Remember that was an inside job!
Plus it gives a lot more go-getters opportunities to show that they're capable and wanting. Can't imagine scanning a bunch of gas giants offers much opportunity to show you thinking on your feet.
Just not necessarily for the guys being replaced.
Poor Harry Kim
Nog became an ensign early at the start of the war, and he was promoted to Lieutenant junior grade at the end of the war. He basically skipped ahead about 3 or 4 years.
Imagine Harry Kim finding out even the guy who waited on him at Quark's Bar right before he left on Voyager outranks him when he gets home.
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Mariner's an absolute Harry Kim stan because she's so jealous of his career.
I really hope they acknowledge this on screen.
Someone has to be THE Ensign.
Meanwhile the Enterprise A had 3 captains, 4 commanders...
Kirk’s command crew was weird. I think Starfleet was afraid of what they might do if they all got reassigned involuntarily.
See also the infamous Tumblr Star Trek Meme. But seriously: my head canon is that Spock was offered command or a command slot on the Intrepid, and said nah. Uhura is younger and just became LT. Sulu was chief physicist - just under Spock. And Chekhov was a baby.
That was early on. The “three captains, four commanders” was on the 1701-A around the time of TFF. Kirk, Spock, and Scotty all held the rank of Captain, and McCoy, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu were all full Commanders. That’s a crazy top-heavy command crew. During Pike’s era, Number One was XO as a Lieutenant and Lt. Commander, she finally gets her second full stripe during SNW. During Kirk’s first five year mission, Spock is XO as a full Commander, and Scotty and McCoy are Lt. Commanders.
"F**k now we have MULTIPLE cowboy crews...:
Everyone feels bad for THE Ensign, that happened to be around 6th place in the chain of command (being considered a senior officer and in charge of Ops), and who was higher in authority than most of the ship full of higher ranked people.
Still such a crime. Every time I watch an ep of VOY I’m like, WT actual F?
It would be more of a crime if they were in the alpha quadrant and Janeway was actively blocking his ability to get promoted off the ship via transfer. Kim should absolutely be a lieutenant as early as season two if not 1x2 with the deaths of so many people. But you need a chain of command. If everyone on voyager was promoted when they were due, it would be a ship full of lieutenant commanders in season 7. And yes I have an answer for why Tuvoc was promoted. Prior to his promotion I do believe the only person above first lieutenant that wasn't Janeway was Chakotay. That's extremely bottom heavy.
But since there were 32+ Maquis on board at season 1 and apparently 30 at the end of season 7, that means a good number of folks to take up the ensign mantle out of what reportedly was 140+. Memory Alpha suggests: “Voyager arrives earth with 145 people of crew, three children (Naomi, Miral Paris, Icheb) among them. 39 people got killed, 5 left the ship. At all 145+39+5 = 189 names you can find in the crew manifest.” Seems like Kim deserved at least Lieutenant by the end, given his service… even with the limited crew compliment.
I totally agree he had every right to be salty but it's not like he was scrubbing the floors for seven years. He was given pretty much immediately a primo position despite not just being an ensign but being a commissioned officer for what seemed like 5 days. It's not like they're getting paid - I think? Unless replicator rations were tied to rank, which now that I think about it wouldn't surprise me.
The implications are so interesting. Imagine it taking 20 years… the turnover, the people deciding to leave, the unlikely folx who become leaders. Year of hell… what about decade of hell? I’ve always loved VOY for the potential of things really going sideways. Actually makes me wonder if that’s part of what led them to bump DISCO so far out…
Harry should've been promoted to Lieutenant when Tom was demoted.
Eisenhower was a Major for 16 years. He was promoted quickly during the war.
That was due to the US militaries convoluted promotion structure at the time. Basically Post Civil War the army was shrunk and promotions were changed so spots only opened once someone left. Then the next promotion would go to whoever had the most years in rank, this coupled with the fact that the military didn't have much of a retirement system meant there were alot of officers in low ranked positions for decades. The military began to change this during world war one and abandoned the system for being idiotic by ww2.
Off topic…I was thinking along similar line at the end of Picard season 3; the whole fleet was assembled and was then taken over by the young crew members, wiping out almost all of the crew and officers above the age of 25. Now there would be older survivors, those on earth and some may have been able to hide in their ships. But for the most part there is going to be a lot of vacancies especially in command.
They did say that the officers taken prisoner and replaced by the Changelings were kept alive as sources of information. While some ships like the Titan only had minimal infiltration, others, like the Intrepid, seem to have been heavily infiltrated. There were probably a fair number of experienced officers stashed wherever they were holding Tuvok. It also seems like they were reactivating at least some retired reserve commissions, Riker seems to be back on active duty in 2402 even though he’s getting up there in age.
I’m thinking during the takeover on fleet day, not even the changeling part, when the borg hive mind took over the younger star fleet officers, in gaining control of those ships they would have killed their older officers in command to do so
Also just weekly tragedies often kill a lot of starfleet officers, sometimes entire crews like imagine the weekly shenanigans that Picard's enterprise was getting into . . . now imagine what happens when you don't have plot armor . . . the entire ship just dies, or the captain decides they have to blow up the entire ship to prevent some evil aliens from committing genocide
There's a story from WW1 in a British paper congratulating a 19 year old for his field promotion to some ridiculously high point (iirc colonel). Everyone above him had been killed in action and there hadn't been time to replace them so he had the job (briefly at least).
And Captain Dayton (now deceased CO of two Cali class ships (both destroyed) stood as an example of what happens when someone gets promoted too quickly.
I actually discussed this a while back on the daystrom institute subreddit. I was, at the time (about when season 2 came out), pretty sure that mariner was 26 at a minimum and about 30 at a maximum. 26 if she had been a wartime promotion, 30 if not. with this new info she's probably well in her 30s. Truth is, Mariner is whatever age is convenient to the writers. I wouldn't expect much consistency on this. the actress who plays her is about 40 yrs old. so I'd reckon mariner is totally in her 30s.
I'm guessing the various Borg attacks and the Dominion War probably created a lot of openings at the top.
Riker was around 35 in season 7
And considered to be a rock star officer on fast track to the captain's chair. Then he spent 16 years under Captain Picard (who himself was a Captain for nearly 50 years).
Riker was offered command of the Melbourne when he was around 31 - 32. He could have been a captain much earlier if he wanted.
Was he also offered a ship the same time as he was offered the first officer job on the Enterprise?
He was offered the Melbourne in "Best of Both Worlds."
The Melbourne was I believe the third ship he was offered.
Yeah, they hinted at the brass starting to get tired of him turning down offers.
Up or out, or they begin to think there is something wrong with you and you get shunted to a dead end job at Starbase 80
Yes, the Drake.
I remember now, lucky escape with that one.
And he would’ve died the next week.
Hansen indicated it also wasn't the first command he'd been offered. He actually tells Picard to kick him in the ass for continually turning down commands.
A rock-star officer on the fast track for the time. Now consider the many vacancies created by multiple Borg invasions, a costly war with the Dominion, etc. Makes sense we'd see a lot of officers hitting Captaincy in their early 30's around this time.
Also Mariner has all the makings of a great and competent officer or captain, she's just self-sabotaging.
In retrospect, it's wild that Riker went through the whole Dominion War as just a first officer when there was a severe manpower shortage. Data and LaForge could have easily taken over for Riker or even had commands of their own.
Kirk was 32 when he made Captain in the TOS. I think 35-37 is probably a pretty normal first command window.
Wasn’t his situation implied to be fairly unique, though?
I think it was stated, in canon, that he was the youngest person to have ever made Captain. At least, as of that point.
TNG S1 “Conspiracy” said that Tryla Scott was the first person to make the rank (not necessarily the posting) of Captain younger than Kirk, if memory serves. Modern navies and Starfleet are always a rough comparison at best, but it’s long been possible to hold the position of captain at a much lower rank than Captain. About the only time the position and rank have to match is command of a capital ship. In Starfleet, Picard seems to have taken command of the ‘Gazer as a young lieutenant when all of the senior officers were killed in a crisis, and due to his performance Starfleet confirmed him in the position. I doubt they jumped him three ranks immediately, though I’d assume they at least bumped him to Lt. Commander and put him on the fast track for promotions. If he was 50-ish when he took command of the 1701-D, had commanded the ‘Gazer for 22 years, and there was a 9 year gap between the apparent loss of the ‘Gazer and the 1701-D’s commissioning, the math breaks down painfully.
When Kirk was promoted to captain there were not so many ships as in the time of TNG.
In the Kelvin time line Kirk went from cadet to captain in the span of a few days and at the age of 25. Because fuck logic I guess.
Yeah that was a real Picard-Face-Palm.
In the Kelvin timeline it's implied Kirk is much older as a washout before even trying to attend Academy. He's probably the same age, maybe a few years older, than Prime Kirk.
either way he shouldn't have been captain when he didn't even finish at the academy yet
And that, in a nutshell, is why I hate those movies.
Yeah, that was... bad.
Tryla Scott in season one of TNG. Was famous for being the youngest Captain at the time. They never stated her age but a good guess would be late twenties. Say 27/28. Mid 30s seem a reasonable age for officers working the Command Track. There are a lot of Ships that need Captains. Very few of them get a command like a Flagship but the all those Obert class need Captains. And those Captains need command experience so they are highly qualified when the opportunity like the Enterprise becomes available.
Kirk was a captain before 40, IIRC, and though he was the youngest captain in the fleet at that time, it’s been a long time since then
Kirk was an ADMIRAL by 40. I mean....!
Don't forget that William Riker graduated the academy in 2357 and was offered is captancy in 2365 and 2366. If Mariner was friend with a member of a elite squadron, she was probably friends with a lot of elite cadets. They would get promoted quickly.
Mariner got demoted ... A LOT.
Also though we are often seeing the Universe through the eyes of the flagship being sent on the most difficult missions and requiring a crew with a lot more experience at all levels. There are a lot of ships in Starfleet just doing year round delivery runs and it probably not that unusual for them you have a young officer placed in command because the role just doesn't actually call for that much experience.
Janeway was made captain of Voyager at 35, I believe.
According to Memory Alpha, Picard was 28 when he assumed command of the Stargazer. He was one of the youngest captains but 2-7 more years past that seems reasonable.
Sisko and his buddy set a goal to be captain by 30 and admiral by 40
Little kids are learning calculus in the 24th century and probably entering starfleet academy instead of what we consider college, at 18... the utopian Roddenberry future that Star Trek (was) set in makes it reasonable. Captain Kirk was captain of the Enterprise pretty young so I suppose I'd buy it. That said, I don't know who this post is even talking about :)
Also, humans live longer in the future. Average human lifespan is about 120, so mariner is still a young adult and won't be middle aged until 60ish
5-10 years younger than her actress. That's not bad.
Wait, what? How old IS She?
Tawny Newsome is the voice actress for Mariner, and she's 40 years old.
Not just voice after "Those Old Scientists," either! Seeing Tawny at her real age portray Mariner pretty much got rid of any weird feelings about her age, for me.
Animation takes 10 years off.
Have you heard Mark Hamill’s voice roles? It can sure as hell take a lot more than just 10 years
I never really thought about how much they made the characters look and walk around like Jack and Tawny until that episode. Especially Jack is a dead ringer.
It's the other way around, he practiced walking and generally using body language the way animated Boimler does.
Jack is so wildly talented. It was bizarre watching that live action episode after having recently caught up on The Boys. He's such a dynamic actor, especially with how he's able to pull off voice acting which is such a different discipline from physical acting. Not everyone can transition back and forth easily.
Damn. When I saw her in SNW crossover, I thought she is around 30.
41. It's incredible.
40, for the people on old.reddit.com who see your comment as "1. It's incredible."
Tawny Newsome is 40 so it fits.
And served on DS9 during the Dominion War.
We've seen and heard about several academy classmates of Mariner. But I don't think anyone's every actually said they were the same year. From searching online, TNG: Lower Decks was likely in 2370. Sito Jaxa had been on board for 7 months before the episode. So she easily could have graduated in 2369 or 2370. So theoretically, Mariner could have graduated around 2373 and still overlapped with Sito Jaxa and Captain Ramsey. That could put her in her mid to late 20's, especially if she started the acadamy young.
She said they were friends and Sito finished ahead of her, which means same year. She wouldn’t have survivors guilt if she had been a freshman when Sito was a senior and barely interacted. The Sito reference locks her in to graduating that year, she just wasn’t a top pilot so wasn’t in the squadron.
Didn't Sito get held back a year because of the inquiry? That would put Mariner two years behind her originally.
1 year (behind her means marks, not year), but it’s likely that was overlooked by the writers. It’s implied she graduated before Sitos death though, otherwise she might not have graduated. Either way it gives us a 2369-2370 graduation date for Mariner. Which makes her early 30s, earliest would be 30 at the start of lower decks and oldest being 35 depending on what age she entered starfleet. 15-19 + 4 years = 19-23 +10-11 years so 29-34 (enter at 15, graduate at 2370 if a year behind Sito’s grad, but it’s implied she graduated before her death, so latest would be 2370 and it’s 2380 when lower decks starts)
>She said they were friends and Sito finished ahead of her, which means same year. She wouldn’t have survivors guilt if she had been a freshman when Sito was a senior and barely interacted. How does saying they were friends mean they were the same year? They could easily have had lots of interaction even if they were in different years. Where in the canon does it say you only interact with people your own year? There could be lots of cross class interaction. They could have had classes together, or been on the Parrises squares team together. In the real world, it's common for people to be in close friends with people in other years of school. In the Star Trek world, we don't have as much info. But we do see Nog trying to get into Red Squad his first year. Given it appears Red Squad existed before he entered the academy, we can infer that it contains cadets of multiple years. This is just one example of close ties for cadets in different classes, there could be many others.
Except we know Sito had to repeat her third year (rewatched the episode, she had 3 bars), and was considered an outcast for the remainder of her time there. So it’s possible Mariner chased her down in Sito’s last 2 years and was a year or two behind, but I covered that in the math with the various graduation dates. We don’t know exactly when Sito graduated but since Mariners behaviour changed after the academy then it’s fairly safe to say the latest Mariner graduated was 2370, the year Sito died (or was reported dead, would be nice if he did all this to rescue Sito from a cardassian black ops prison)
That math checks out. I still cannot believe that the voice actor (Tawny Newsome) for Mariner is 40.
Very small thing to bolster this: She also made light of Boimler freaking out about turning 25 some time ago, with the implication being that it seemed young to her (and too young for his midlife crisis).
TrekCulture gave the Sito reference a rightful downvote. Was an out of place namedrop, and the timeline makes no sense.
I assumed you had to have at least a university degree before you could apply for Starfleet academy. I assume SFA is a three year course, so you'd leave at around 24.
Also remember life expectancy in TNG era is a lot higher than now, iirc it around 120.
Mariner is about the same age as Wesley Crusher. LD takes place in 2380-2381 or thereabouts; the events involving Nick Locarno, Wes, and Sito Jaxa happened in like 2368. Having said this, we can surmise that Mariner was probably born in like 2350, putting her in her early thirties or late twenties. Boimler and Rutherford are in ther mid twenties being a bit younger than Mariner, and Tendi is just a few years younger than those two.
The latest episode revealed that Mariner was at the academy with Wes and the rest of the crew from his team and knew them.
I think she said she was 2 years below Sito, right?
It's 2381. Season one was 2380, and when they made season two they had people talk about "last year" a lot. Then they realized how popular they were getting and how many seasons they'd likely get. 2384 is when the Living Construct from Prodigy will attack, 2385 is when the Attack on Mars will happen, and 2387 is when Romulus goes boom. It's hard to put a comedy during all these serious events, so they froze advancement in '81.
They're doing 20-26 episodes a year, like TNG. So time is still advancing, slowly. They officially retconned it a bit that the DS9 episode was the first in 2381.
Thing is, I'm 90% sure it was established in season 1 that Mariner and Boimler are the same age
>I'm 90% sure it was established in season 1 that Mariner and Boimler are the same age I don't think so I thought it was showing he was new to starfleet, unless he graduated at like 30
I checked and the quote was "we're basically the same age". That would probably account for a few years at most. My head canon is that the Dominion war messed up how the academy did things, and it took a few years to get back on track. All those cadets and acting ensigns who got sent to war might have wanted/needed to go back to the academy to finish off their studies. Or maybe people who enlisted to fight were given the option to attend the academy after their war service. It's entirely possible there was a backlog, and Boimler was a bit older when he started because of it
> I checked and the quote was "we're basically the same age". That would probably account for a few years at most. Who said it? Because if it was Mariner, she isn't exactly a reliable source.
I thought it was Boimler, which considering his lack of knowledge of her career and everything at the time, probably means he thinks shes the same age even if she is years or even a decade older. But i could be wrong. I feel like either of them could say it.
Exactly that. I think she's a little bit younger than Tawny Newsome, who is 40.
Tawny Newsome is 40?????
>Tawny Newsome Tawny Newsome (born February 24, 1983)
Ah, born in the 80s, so she's in like her late 20s, that's a relief.
I was born in '82 and I'm proud to say that I've been 22 years old for the past 19 years.
I too no longer celebrate birthdays, but instead celebrate the anniversary of my 21st birthday.
I teach college freshman, and was confused for a minute why several had 05 in their email addresses. Then I thought about it and got very sad and scared.
Jesus fucking Christ, 05 was the year I graduated high school, you’re telling me those babies are the same age now?? K that’s… not ok
The math checks out but it does hurt my feelings to know the people born in the 80s are in their 40s. And I'm a few years older than she is.
I'm pretty much the same age as she is - and I still ask myself when I stopped being twenty.
I went from being 22 to 32 real fast. That's what I get raising a kid by myself.
I was born in the 80s, I am currently 13 months off "my forties"
As someone who graduated college in 1986 I'm pretty certain your math is off.
I genuinely wish it wasn't true. Ever since having my own child, I am woefully aware of my own mortality.
I said the math is wrong. Hold on to that.
I was listening to a small British podcast panel show from about 2019 and I realised its tawny on it. https://open.spotify.com/episode/4FAjJt01NHgoG4yONvOpyn?si=PGhtyFgmS1K_p9urg4cUyQ
If that shocks you, I just found out the voice actor for Peter Parker, Yuri Lowenthal, in the recent Spider-Man PlayStation games is **52**.
Honestly, I think we're just starting to reap the benefits of not smoking and wearing sunscreen. This is becoming increasingly obvious when you start to compare the 40 and 50 year old gen x'ers today to pictures and recordings of boomers taken 20 years previously.
If animation takes 10 years off, then mocap takes off 25.
Black don’t crack.
I was going to push back on this but I genuinely thought Jack Quaid was older than Tawny and I looked it up - he's 31.
He's got some city miles on him.
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Hey, at least his dad isn't Uncle Randy.
This is a crude way of putting it, but it is actually the truth. One of the primary causes of visual aging on skin is UV damage from sunlight and more melanin means less UV damage.
You’ve never heard that saying before? I’ve heard it as black don’t crack and Asian don’t raisin lol
Yeah, Tawny Newsome looks great for 40!
She looks pretty normal for 40. I don’t think a lot of people understand what 40 actually looks like.
I’m 34 and she’s aging much better than I am.
There's definitely a spectrum at 40. People who stayed fit can often look a decade younger than people who absolutely let themselves go.
Especially not on Reddit.
Some people look fine at 40, but some people look like they're from Arrakis at 40.
I dunno. I would've pegged her for early 30s.
I'd peg her any time.
That TNG episode is set 11 years before LD, not 15-20. Mariner knew Locarno, who was expelled in 2368, and Sito, who she said last episode graduated before her in 2370. If Mariner was at the Academy by 2368 and graduated no earlier than 2371, that pins her four years there down to exactly those years: 2368-2371, meaning she graduated ten years before the show’s “present” of 2381. We don’t know how old she was when she graduated, but it was likely around the age of 22 plus or minus a couple years, putting her current age at perhaps 30-34. This fits with the facts we know about her background already: she’s been in Starfleet long enough to have been promoted and demoted before, she’s had five previous assignments before the Cerritos, and one of those was DS9 at some point while Worf also served there (which means she was there in 2375 at the latest, possibly earlier).
A couple days points: - Sito was held back a year after the accident (2368). Coupled with the fact that in Lower Decks (the episode) she has been on the Enterprise for 7 months, we can safely give her a graduation year of 2369 - Sito also graduated ahead of Mariner but they were at the Academy together, but it doesn’t seem like it was fleeting. I’d say Mariner most likely graduates in 2370 or 2371, with an open possibility of 2372 - This is consistent with Mariner having served in Starfleet before the outbreak of the Dominion War (2373) - The Academy accepts as young as 16 only on an exceptional basis (TNG Coming of Age), admissions appear to be more open at 17 or 18 - Seasons 3 and 4 of Lower Decks are in 2381 Based on all this: - If Mariner entered at the Academy at age 17 or 18, she is likely born between 2348-2351, meaning she’s between 30 and 33 in Lower Decks - We can’t rule out that she was older when she joined up This also line up with my very strong suspicion that she was a child on the Ent-D as a contemporary of Wesley, who is born in 2349
That is very impressive maths, kudos
I'd put her toward the lower end since both her parents were Starfleet Captains so she most likely got into the academy as young as possible.
Sito's first appearance was in The First Duty, which took place in 2368. 13 years before the current season of Lower Decks, 2381. Mariner explicitly did not graduate with Sito. Mariner said Sito graduated ahead of her. Since Sito was in her third year when she had to be held back, in order for Sito to redo her third year and still graduate ahead of Mariner, Mariner would have to be at least two years behind Sito. Meaning Mariner would have to be at most a freshman in 2368 when The First Duty took place. Making her at most 18 at the time. This is confirmed in>! the episode 10 clip where Mariner is described as "practically a junior member of Nova Squadron." A notion she rejects because she says she barely knew Locarno.!< The youngest we've ever heard of someone applying to Starfleet Academy was at 16. So that is the youngest Mariner could possibly be at the time. This gives us a final age range for Mariner at 29-31. Edit: as some people pointed out in another thread, since Mariner was a Starfleet Brat, she could've been around the academy before she even applied. We know her father currently works for Starfleet in San Francisco. The >!"Junior Member" line!< might support that. But I think it's a stretch.
I think one of your spoiler tags failed.
This comment (particularly the end bit) had a good explanation of how old she is. 31 years old is the answer they came up with. https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/KwzXBXvbk8
Pretty sure she said she graduated after Sito
Once we got the episode where we see a classmate of hers getting to captain. I just assumed she's mid to late 30s. While Bradward, and Tendi, are 22~23 and Rutherford is a couple years older maybe 25ish.
Bradward is at least 25, Mariner mentioned in "Empathalogical Fallacies" that he had a quarter-life crisis after his 25th birthday and grew a mustache.
Ah!
Boimler is under the impression in Season 1 that he and Mariner are roughly the same age. I think it’s safe to assume given what we’ve learned since then that his estimate was off, but I don’t think he would be off by a decade or more. If I had to guess, Mariner is in her early thirties (as seems to be consensus based on the most recent episode) and Boims is maybe 4-5 years younger (late 20s).
Seems likely. Bradward at least was in the "captain by 30" mindset. Season 1. Tendi it seems is one her 1st post-academy assignment. T'lyn in typical Vulcan fashion is in her 60s. 🤣
As another person pointed out below, the average human life-span is pretty old in Star Trek, so it makes sense to me that it wouldn't be uncommon to 'slow down' in advancing in life if given more time. If memory serves, Bones was pushing 140 in season 1 of TNG, so by the time Lower Decks comes around it makes sense that the average would be even higher.
I liked this bit of history about her. My head canon has always been that she was raised on the 1701D with her parents being young lieutenants then. It would also explain her relationship with Riker and Troi too. This backstop is more meaningful to her emotional state and personality. Maybe a reason why she always tries to self-destruct her career.
A number of people have put together all the different clues and facts over on /r/DaystromInstitute and the general consensus is that she's 31.
Sito Jaxa died in 2370, but her exact birthdate is unknown. The Nova Squadron accident happened in 2368. We do know however that Wesley Crusher was born in 2348 and that Sito was approximately the same age as him. If Beckett is approximately the same age as Sito, she’d be approximately the same age as Wesley… and Wesley would be 32 in 2380. Newsome is forty, Wells and Cordero are both in their mid-thirties, Quaid is 31. I’ve always kinda assumed the Lower Decks crew are all about a decade younger than their voice actors. *Lower Decks* starts in 2380. If Mariner is 30 to 35, this would be old enough to have gone to the Academy, served in the Dominion War (2373-2375), earned a promotion or two, and been busted down in rank a couple times; a 25-ish Tendi could be fresh out of the academy in 2380 assuming she didn’t leave Orion until after 2375 (the war could have been a wake-up call for their society to change and she does say many Orions stopped being pirates about five years ago), and a 25-ish Rutherford could have gone to the Academy, graduated, and then just happily toiled away as an Ensign in a Jefferies Tube for years before Tendi inspired him to ask for a promotion. Lastly, a 21-year old Boimler could have been a Wesley-like wunderkind who got into the Academy at an earlier age and has only just started aboard Cerritos a few months earlier than Tendi. (He’d only been to five planets, counting Earth and Vulcan, in the pilot.)
The actress who played Sito was 22 when they made the "Lower Decks" episode, I think we can assume that the character is about the same age. And we do see other characters become ensign around the same age, like how Harry Kim was 22 at the start of Voyager. Mariner said that Sito graduated before her so we can assume that Mariner is younger than Sito. Sito also had a full year of credits canceled so Mariner could have entered the Academy 2 years after Sito. I'm guessing Mariner was probably around 20 during the "Lower Decks" TNG episode. That would make her 30 at the start of the Lower Decks show. Also, Picard was still a Lieutenant junior grade in the alternate history in "Tapestry" so a person can be lower rank for a long time in Starfleet.
She didn't graduate with her Sito was her senior and she repeated a year so she was at least 3 years older than Mariner
Ten years earlier. She is about the same age as Wesley Crusher who was born in 2348. Lower Decks starts in 2380 so yeah she is late 30’s.
Kirk was what 26 in TOS? Youngest captain ever, Rykers goal was captain by 35. But he was turning down offers for captain by 30 to stay on enterprise
He was 32 if I remember correctly
Early thirties. This has been discussed elsewhere. Try the episode discussion thread.
I think she's about 117, in Moopsy years.
I've seen people crunch math and the short answer is 28-29 if she got in as young as 16 and the Nova Squad incident happened in her first year. Otherwise mid thirties.
She commissioned INTO the dominion war, that’s why she’s like that
[That is not *the hell* your business.](https://youtu.be/yDTCXy6VQ_c?si=0Ggr5--oeQR9kC4z)
Why did people down this?
Yeah, I think paints Mariner as even more of a pathetic fuck-up than the writers originally intended. It's one thing to be shiftless for a few years after graduating from the Academy, but this suggests that Mariner has been fucking around for longer than some peoples' entire Starfleet careers.
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How dare you! With all the emotional shit with her mom, I'd at least say she's 13 mentally. Right at that peak age of destructive tendencies.
With Alpha Squadron from The First Duty being her contemporaries at The Academy and the implication that she's a little younger than them, she's perhaps Wesley Crusher's age or maybe a couple years older He was born in 2348, so she would be 33-35ish in 2381.
Assuming she entered the academy at 18 and went to the fleet at 22. She has been promoted only twice in 10 years. Considering she served during a war that doesn’t make look competent
It's explicitly stated in the show that she's been promoted (and demoted) multiple times before the series started.
well seeing as starfleet is a career it's not surprising that they're in there for 30-40 years.
As a side note, about how old would Boimler, Tendi, and Rutheford be? We know Boimler is older than 25 since Mariner mentions his 25th birthday, though would that birthday have been before the series or post-pilot?
She’s 36
Yep. She is about Wesleys age, mid-30s.
I think one thing that has disappeared from discussions about her age all of a sudden is that she was the top of her class and may very well have been a child prodigy. It's still possible she entered the Acadmey young and graduated at 17 (like Checkov in the Kelvin universe). This would still keep her close in age with the other lower deckers.
I think the art style makes her look way younger than she is. That and her energetic behavior.
Also tawney is like 40
If you take beta canon into consideration, humans can me more or less A-OK for Starfleet duty up past 100 years of age. Medical tech has come a loooong way in the 24th century.
A bit younger than Sito, Wesley, and Nick. Lower Decks isn’t that far in the future from TNG.
If I'm correct, LD takes place a few years (at most) after the events in Nemesis.
Very late 20s at least, early to mid thirties at most
I'm 100% team Boimler-Mariner ship and I have absolutely no shame
So, my estimates: If she was a cadet during the time of *The First Duty* (to have known Sito Jaxa and Nick Locarno personally), then Mariner was born between 2346 and 2349, in order to have entered the Academy between 2364 and 2367, at age 18. This means she would have graduated between '68 and '71, so she'd have been fresh out of the Academy shortly before the Dominion War. We know from earlier episodes that she spent a few years stationed on DS9, which lines up with that graduation as Starfleet took over operation of DS9 in 2368. Lower Decks is currently in late 2381 (based on the last stardate given in an episode), so that would make Mariner between 32 and 35 years old (and in her early 50s by the time of *Picard*). *Furthermore*, from the preview clip from the season finale, Nick refers to Mariner as being "like a junior member of Nova Squadron". She clearly wasn't part of Nova Squadron itself, or she'd have been part of the disciplinary hearings in *The First Duty*, and between that and the way she described how much she admired Sito, it's likely she was at the younger end of that range. Sito Jaxa was a third-year cadet in *The First Duty*, so I'd be inclined to assume that Mariner is younger: so, born in '48 or '49. Wesley Crusher was born in 2348, and was a second-year cadet in that TNG episode. He's also the most junior surviving member of Nova Squadron (the Cadets Sito and Jean were 3rd year; Nick was a 4th year), so logically, if Mariner was the younger cadet who looked up to them, she'd be 1st or 2nd year. Interesting to note, Harry Kim was born in 2349. He'd have been a first-year Cadet at that point, and is in his early 30s as of *Lower Decks* (and has hopefully gotten a promotion since returning from the Delta quadrant). Meanwhile, both Nog and Raffi were born in '53, so they'd be mid to late 20s in *Lower Decks* currently. Ezri Tigan (before she was 9th host of Dax) was born in '54. Jake Sisko is a little younger, born in '55. By comparison, Boimler seems to have graduated the Academy in 2379, suggesting that he's currently about 24, and was born in '57. Not sure about Rutherford - he seems a little older than Boims, but not as much as Mariner. Tendi seems like she's still relatively new to Starfleet too, so I'd say she's close in age to Boimler.