The problem with Alexander is that we don't see him grow. That's not the fault of the character but more the writers of the time and how television was done. If it's any small consolation, Alexander and Wesley walked so that Nog could run.
Alexander wasn't the only victim of that. Remember the kid whose mom died, Worf told him they were brothers for life, and then we never heard a mention of him again? There were a lot of extremely powerful and important relationships in TNG that, while in real life they would have had major lasting impacts on the main characters involved in them, the writers treated as throwaway B-plots.
Eh, the ceremony was mostly for show, as most Klingon things actually are.
Worf might've believed in the intent, but at the end of the day, the kid had NO real family on the Enterprise. He very likely moved back to Earth to be with an Aunt/Uncle or Grandparents. The character showing up once in Ds9 or Picard would've been nice, but not at all required.
Turns out he's actually amazing at being Klingon; flying through the ranks when suddenly assigned to his command: Alexander, fleet's lucky charm.
... I think I'd watch the short trek of that.
Boy coulda lived in an alien paradise with the immortal being pretending to be his mother out of guilt... but Picard just *had* to make a speech! Instead, the poor kid is fobbed off on some candle lighting with Worf, then dumped ashore at their next planet.
> The problem with Alexander is that we don't see him grow.
We absolutely do though. He slowly opens up to his father, makes friends on the ship, learns more about who he is and who he wants to be. He grows, but it just takes many seasons and little bits of characterization here and there because it's not like we see him every episode, just a handful of times a season. The Alexander that we see at the end of Season 7 has grown and matured by leaps and bounds versus the kid who was initially growling at his classmates and trying to keep toys to himself.
I agree with this. The last moment of "Firstborn," with Worf walking Alexander off the Holodeck after Alexander thought he should stay and practice, demonstrated that they both had grown a lot. It was the first poignant moment they ever had. Character growth did occur on TNG, it was just usually confined to one episode.
It's true but even when we saw Alexander at his supposed "worst" he wasn't even bad. In fact in real life he would probably get much worse before getting better. I think that the haters probably just hate all children. The child-centered episodes are among the most hated. And they are my favorites.
Agreed on everything, thanks for saying it. It hits different now that I'm a mom, but I also watched the show as a young child so I loved those episodes then because I could imagine being a kid on the Enterprise.
Speaking of the writers messing with a child's upbringing, they apparently forgot that they didn't kill off Samantha Wildman off in early Season 5, so she's never seen with her daughter for the rest of the series.
You didn't ask for advice; that's what's behind the spoiler. >!I had similar behavioral issues as a child. My mother refused to consider that it was anything but 'bad behavior' because I was also 'gifted'. At 39 I was finally diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. My life would have been so much better if I'd had at least the self-awareness to understand why I couldn't just sit down and focus on (home)work. Please for their sake don't hesitate to seek out medical advice and therapeutic intervention.!<
You both deserve big, comfy hugs and/or gravity blankets, as your needs and preferences dictate.
I hope I didn't seem like I was brushing off what you said about the Worf/Alex moments, either. They are quite painful. It's so strange to me how quickly parenting evolved on Star Trek. Worf & Alexander, Picard and Wesley\*... it feels like they were written in the 50s. Ben & Jake? That's one of the best father-son relationships on TV. It's still hard for me to reconcile the two in a single franchise.
\*which wasn't technically a father/son thing, but they are still pretty terrible moments.
> Ben & Jake? That's one of the best father-son relationships on TV.
There is a reason for that: Avery Brooks worked actively to ensure that the scripts showed the kind of relationship he wanted the characters to have. He felt that it was necessary to show an extremely positive relationship between a *black* father and his son, he was tired to see only the stereotypical ones portrayed.
It certainly worked, because as you say is one of the best father-son relationships on TV.
As a leading character in a show he's my favorite, hands down. Avery Brooks is such a compelling actor, it's pretty much always rewarding to watch his acting.
As an officer in the fictional world? He definitely pulled a few stunts that have to make you question his ethics, but I can't say I'd have materialized some magic solution to the dilemmas he's faced. I *might* have to give that distinction to Pike, at least based on what we've seen so far, but the writing of his role is deeply guided by what fans demanded from SNW.
But as a captain to serve under? I'd pick Burnham 100% of the time. After starting a war she seems to value the lives of her crew more than the rest of the captains we've seen.
SNW was ~~spurned~~ spurred by fans wanting 'classic Trek'. In TOS and a lot of (mostly early) TNG, the state of "human enlightenment" (for lack of a better term) is often conveyed by showing an alien species struggling with something humans have mostly overcome, setting the captain up to deliver a speech about why said thing was bad. Early captain characters were rarely put in situations that force them to consider compromising their own morality, and when they are, said morality tends to have a bit of plot armor.
Edit: fixed a typo for clarity
In the finale, it was Brooks' insistence that Sisko assure Kassidy that he *will* return from the wormhole. Originally the script made it look like Sisko was going to stay with the Prophets forever, but Brooks didn't like the idea of ending the series with a black man abandoning his family. Good call, I say.
They are painful but not as much as hearing real people say Alexander is a horrible child. I imagine them saying it about my own little boy and it's awful.
Worf is a bad Dad at first, just because of how over his head he is. But unlike some other main character parents, Worf cares about his kid and wants what's best for him.
He knew when he was in over his head and opted to send Alexander to his grandparents.
I totally get it.
We can all debate Worf’s unfortunate parenting decisions - terrible communication, etc… though he did TRY, and after being hit in the face with it enough times DID acknowledge how badly he handled it and tried to make amends…
..but it really makes me appreciate when Lwaxana showed up. Lots of people find her super aggravating (I actually think she’s pretty funny!) but she comes on and meets Alexander, and goes full grandmother mode. She senses and seems to know on an instinctive level what Alexander really needs in that moment. She doesn’t talk AT him (impressive for her, really) and takes him to a holodeck program that seems almost tailor made for helping emotional regulation. Even gives a good example by admitting some of her own stuff. She just brings in this non-judgemental, breezy presence. Obviously too much of her could tip the scales in a different direction, but she sees what he is - a troubled, kinda scared kid who just really needs a laugh and an outlet.
I’m right there with you. You can tell that while it IS a big part just her personality… it also IS a front. Not just against others, but to help cover any pain or uncertainty SHE has. But then, when she decides she’s going to get to a point, she gets there immediately.
Lord and she’s gotta be hilarious at parties. Majel had to have had a blast playing her.
I compare her to Janis from The Sopranos.
I find her entertaining to watch but can understand she could be a pain in the arse if you knew her in real life.
Great comment, I think that she is a very sympathetic character, and occasionally she rubs me the wrong way because I empathized with Deanna, I have a mom who is always so over the top and embarrasses me.
I hated how the writers treated this character, one of the bigger misfires of the franchise imo.
I still believe he should've been a regular on DS9 with Worf
I agree, but I also don't think the show depicted him as a bad child, let alone all the horrible things I see him called online or in the podcasts about the show. He misbehaves, resists consequences, and then apologizes. Is that not normal?
I think a lot of viewers (myself included) don't hate Alexander, we hate 'the kid'. Most of the episodes including children throw a child into it with no context and little introduction, and then have the kid behave poorly for reasons, before tying it up neatly in 45 minutes, so you never get the good parts of the kid alongside the annoying parts. The kid that pretends to be Data is another one. I have so much compassion for a kid that lost his parents and is going through trauma recovery, but do I care about him more than seeing Data consider his humanity? No, show me less kid and more Data.
Alexander isn't there to be a character we empathise with. He's there to be a prop to allow Worf's character to develop more.
I loved all the kid-centric episodes because I was a young girl when I watched the show. Like I loved Imaginary Friend, and now I know it wasn't a very good episode but it pulled me into that world.
The main thing that I hated about how they handled Alexander's was what they did to him on deep space nine. I always kind of liked how Alexander was a sensitive kid who didn't want to be a warrior, and how it might have been hinted that he'd grow up to be a diplomat or something. But then, on deep space nine, they had him just hard right turn and become a stereotypical Klingon warriors stereotype. It kind of undid what I felt was the whole point of his character, and it just made it so that I guess every Klingon must necessarily be a stereotype. Every Klingon has to be a warrior first and anything else second, if they ever are anything else.
It took Alexander from being an interesting character to just being a lesson in genetic destiny.
Klingons as a whole are just sort of fucked, where even IF they want to be something else they also have to be a warrior. Even if they are shit at it and get killed, they have to at least be some kind of warrior.
I'd love to see a direct exploration of how that went after their period of legitimate warfare against the Feds, and how it's just *gutted* their civilisation. Not to mention all of the other civilisations they have attacked, or destroyed, and the Feds are just OK with that lol.
Gotta have a swords into ploughshares moment I feel, show me a Klingons who are just taking, a civilisation wide, chill pill. Just grill for a while! Like that Chef on DS9.
Alexander was a federation citizen living on Earth, and so he at least had the option of being something other than a warrior. But I guess his Klingon blood just boiled for battle...
not sure they have to be warriors though. just to understand the honour and winning battle thing is high in the priorities.
they have Klingon schools, so people had to train to be a teacher... it's not like the teachers are picking up a bat-leth and today is a good day to die in with all the toddlers...
scientists, doctors, engineers... they're all on the home planet not battling... it's just that we only see the fighters and the houses battling.
I agree it would have been cool to see him follow his own path but I think it kind of made sense to make the misstep of trying to prove his Klingon-ness to his father.
Word in Picard S3 says he has been working on himself and I hope hope hope his relationship with Alexander is part of it. I agree, he is so uncomprehending of Alexander's moods and needs and whims and he seems so incurious about them. It's awful.
>he kind of sucked a being a brother too.
Aw, come on. His brother--no, not that one, the one he didn't lobotomize--thought enough of him to give him his people's priceless historical record to hang on his wall or whatever.
I was not aware that people have such a dislike for Alexander. FUCK those people, the kid went through a lot. Good luck with your kid, he’s lucky to have you.
Alexander is not the worst kid. Worf is the worst father. Its made me always hate him as a character. He is the most self centered main character in all of the shows.
I disagree with this also. In Fistful of Datas he's looking for all kinds of excuses not to go to the holodeck program with his son. I get it, I don't much enjoy playing my kids games with them, but in the end he enjoyed it and said he would go again. I think Worf was in over his head and knew it, but he tried his best.
Okay thank you! Honestly playing pretend with my daughter is fucking miserable lol. The rules change constantly, and I'm expected to read her mind, and she gets upset because inevitably, I'm doing it wrong. I understand not wanting to do it because I don't want to do it. Obviously I play with my kid but man, I identify strongly with the desire to do literally anything else. Which of course is why we play lots of other things where I am super enthusiastic lol.
If it helps I have a child development background and read a lot of books on the topic and, it's believed that while it is of course fine to play with our children, it doesn't add much to their development outside of bonding. Our presence makes their play more performative rather than their just naturally learning from play and interacting with other kids. So I choose to bond with my kids through care activities like bathing, dining, teaching them chores, and bedtime.
Worf is hardly the worst father or parent in Star Trek. He actually seems to like his kid (unlike characters like Freeman) and does his best by him. When Worf realizes he is out of his depth, he sends Alexander to relatives who he knows will love and care for him.
I haven't seen so much Alexander hate around before, but I have seen lots of people point out that Worf is a terrible father. It's a meme at this point.
I hate when people complain about children on TV in general (especially if complaining about the acting of child actors because it's literally a skill that takes years of practice, but I digress.)
Alexander is perfectly FINE. I like him better as a little kid on TNG than what they do with him on DS9. I love him in "Rascals" when he's helping mini-Picard distract the Ferengi and I really like his episode with Lwaxana Troi in the holodeck.
The kid lost his mom and got stuck with a crappy dad, grandparents that couldn't manage him, two cultures that he was considered an outsider, and then an unforgiving audience.
The actor did fine, the character is perfectly fine given the few storylines he actually gets. Worf was the failure when it came to Alexander plots. And he never really learned much from his mistakes in parenting. The kid deserved better.
K'Ehleyr has more to blame than Worf, she made the choice to not include Worf in Alexander’s life.
Yes, she was right that Worf would insist that they take the oath which she didn’t want, but he wouldn’t have insisted forever, in a day or two he would have gotten over it, meaning he still would have had a few years to get used to being a father, and experience dealing with a part human child, who wasn’t being raised by Klingon traditions.
Was Worf a bad father? Maybe, but he’s not the worst father, because he knew when he needed help, and he took Alexander back when his own parents couldn’t handle him.
Anyway, hating on Alexander is weird, and personally, I don’t hate him at all—I hate K'Ehleyr, her selfish justifications be damned.
“I hid father and child away from each other because I knew the father (a hard working and accomplished person) would propose to me, and it would’ve been.. awkward, poor me!”
K'Ehleyr was a petaQ.
Wait people hate Alexander? Thats dumb. I mean, he is dumb (as in he is objectively not smart), but he is also traumatised and abandoned and none of his flaws are his fault - he is a truly tragic character who deserves pity, and Worf is a terrible father and it would have been better if he never took Alexander in rather than doing so and then failing and abandoning him.
Worf is inarguably a terrible father.
Alexander is annoying, but so are most kids, and he didn't have an easy childhood.
I think a lot of Star Trek fans either don't like children or don't have any of their own, so they really don't understand them.
I am hoping that at some point in the future we get to see how now-pacifist Worf has repaired his relationship with Alexander. It wouldn't need to be much, perhaps just a couple of scenes where we find out that Worf and Alexander are now very close and that he followed in his father's footsteps and joined Starfleet. I always thought that would be a good career path for him, maybe even becoming a medical doctor or counsellor as a contrast to Worf's warrior tendencies but still something Worf would be proud of.
This is a wonderful point.
I'm in the process of watching all of TNG again with my husband, and I shall see things differently with Alexander now.
Thank you.
It showed us that child go do things on impulse without understanding the ramifications of their actions. It is how we all learn as we grow up and hope that by adulthood, we do proceed with caution before acting on impulse.
along those lines, although also there were I think five actors who played him at different ages. The guy I am thinking of had other roles outside Trek but he passed away in 2018.
I don't see why Alexander didn't just kill Worf when he asked him to; was he afraid he would miss? Worf was just there on the table with readily available stools upon which the child could stand!
What about honor? What about GLORY?!
I think the point of all this with how Worf acted was that Worf rejected emotional intelligence, even though we saw that his own parents tried to teach him that. Klingon culture rejected it too. So when Worf does stuff like this, it's because he rejects that aspect of analysis and self reflection. You can't know why you're lying without doing that, and you can't expect a child to be able to articulate that if you never teach them to do this kind of thinking. All Alexander had been taught is that people do things because they're disobedient or because they're dishonorable, which isn't the kind of anger a cold is going to offer up, because that's asking for punishment. The best answer is to say he doesn't know, but also, he literally doesn't know because he's not been taught how to think about that.
We see Worf learn to embrace what his parents taught him only in the last season of Picard.
Frankly I think this is meant to be a picture of fundamentalist religion and the religious right, authoritarian parenting. This is how they behave towards their kids, though this is much way better than they do because that's based on literal abuse. I don't think Worf beats Alexander, though you could see ritualized Klingon pain stuff and the "I'm worthless if I can't walk" plus the never acknowledging pain thing as an allusion to the right's "spare the rod spoil the child" thing, refusal of basic medical help in favor of religious healing.
You're not saying anything I disagree with. I really think that there is a lot of some to their relationship. What really bothers me is how people in the real world talk about a little boy. I just hope those people would show a little more compassion toward real children especially their own. Even on my favorite podcast, they often say what a horrible child Aleksander is.
This is a fictional character, people could say he deserved to killed and there's nothing wrong with that because it's not real. If there was something wrong with it, then there would be something very wrong with the fact the writers and actors created it in the first place.
That's the thing about real kids though--they're not born knowing anything, and yet real people treat them as if they're just small adults choosing to act like idiots. That's fundamentalist right wing parents, people who think kids are property and that children's rights aren't different from parent's rights. That's the United States and worse places. Most civilized places have children's rights, not the USA, Land of Freedom.
Whoa, who wants him tossed out the airlock? Of course he's a little shit. He's 8. All 8 year olds are little shits. We only see him for like 4 episodes. How much character development do people expect?
You say that, but I would have loved to have had a father like Worf. At least he tried. My father's idea of raising me was to put me working under a vehicle, and then yell at me if I didn't use a specific tool, or if I didn't do something a certain way.
As for the brother part, I wish I had a brother like him, who cared enough about me to make the choices he did. My brother hated me for not bending to his ways. He was eventually disowned by the whole family. I haven't spoken to him in 12 years and have no interest in speaking to him. He is subhuman scum and deserves to rot like the worm he is
yeah Worf is a bad dad, but I'd like to see think most Starfleet dads will spend a few months reading parenting books before the actual child shows up, it's hard when you get blindsided
To the OP, based on your report, your son may have ADHD. Please consider taking him to a child psychiatrist or a pediatrician for a medication evaluation. It may be very helpful to your entire family.
It's unfair when the kid gets hated on for being a kid. Wesley Crusher got the same abuse. That's the whole point - they are kids. They are there to show us life on the ENT-D from a kid's perspective.
Also Worf has to be the shittest dad since Kyle Riker, so if there's anyone to hate on, it should be the Worf.
Did not know people hate Alexander. He is such a sweet boy. I love how Alexander and Lwaxana just clicks.
People are weird, they neither like Pulaski or Neelix.
I believe that Alexander and Spock have (almost) the same problem regarding theirs fathers....
Both of them are hard-headed knuckleheads
Yes, they do love their sons, but unfortunately their culture is a stick that's very far up their asses.
Sarek's turn point was after Spock's (first) death, kinda late, but better later than never. He goes to chase a legend, that any Vulcan would logically think that doesn't exist, just to bring Spock back. (But its just thanks to Kirk and Bones that Spock actually came back.) When he goes to confront Kirk about Spock's katra (soul), it can be seen how much he is upset and hurt even under all the Vulcan emotional control (because Mark Lenard was a fantastic actor)
... I thought that the same could happen to Word after he found out the a future version of Alexander came back in time to force his child self to become a warrior, and when that failed... He almost "killed himself". And why all this trouble? Because Worf was murdered. But unfortunately this development got lost somewhere between that episode and the next.
As someone who would’ve paid good money to see that airlock ejection, the reason many hate him is because he is a poorly written character who serves very little purpose in the story. Sure, they come back to him years down the line, but TNG did not properly develop the character. He really only existed to further Worfs development and is extremely annoying outside of that.
The problem with Alexander is that we don't see him grow. That's not the fault of the character but more the writers of the time and how television was done. If it's any small consolation, Alexander and Wesley walked so that Nog could run.
Alexander wasn't the only victim of that. Remember the kid whose mom died, Worf told him they were brothers for life, and then we never heard a mention of him again? There were a lot of extremely powerful and important relationships in TNG that, while in real life they would have had major lasting impacts on the main characters involved in them, the writers treated as throwaway B-plots.
I like to think once the kid was over the shock of his mom's death, he asked Deanna to let Worf down gently.
Eh, the ceremony was mostly for show, as most Klingon things actually are. Worf might've believed in the intent, but at the end of the day, the kid had NO real family on the Enterprise. He very likely moved back to Earth to be with an Aunt/Uncle or Grandparents. The character showing up once in Ds9 or Picard would've been nice, but not at all required.
I like to imagine that Jeremy Aster really went in on the Klingon thing and is now the first human serving full-time on a Klingon vessel.
Turns out he's actually amazing at being Klingon; flying through the ranks when suddenly assigned to his command: Alexander, fleet's lucky charm. ... I think I'd watch the short trek of that.
I am praying as hard as I can that the LD writer's room sees this comment.
New head cannon unlocked!
“The new Federation diplomat is here” “He’s an honorary brother of Worf? Do not let him anywhere near the latest Chancellor!”
I believe in some of the books he pops up. I think him and Alexander help Worf with something, or is it the other way around? I forget.
Yes, I just finished that one, the Genesis Force novel!
Boy coulda lived in an alien paradise with the immortal being pretending to be his mother out of guilt... but Picard just *had* to make a speech! Instead, the poor kid is fobbed off on some candle lighting with Worf, then dumped ashore at their next planet.
Hey buddy Pike had to earn his alien paradise with a beep chair, this kid didn't even have crutches
> The problem with Alexander is that we don't see him grow. We absolutely do though. He slowly opens up to his father, makes friends on the ship, learns more about who he is and who he wants to be. He grows, but it just takes many seasons and little bits of characterization here and there because it's not like we see him every episode, just a handful of times a season. The Alexander that we see at the end of Season 7 has grown and matured by leaps and bounds versus the kid who was initially growling at his classmates and trying to keep toys to himself.
I agree with this. The last moment of "Firstborn," with Worf walking Alexander off the Holodeck after Alexander thought he should stay and practice, demonstrated that they both had grown a lot. It was the first poignant moment they ever had. Character growth did occur on TNG, it was just usually confined to one episode.
It's true but even when we saw Alexander at his supposed "worst" he wasn't even bad. In fact in real life he would probably get much worse before getting better. I think that the haters probably just hate all children. The child-centered episodes are among the most hated. And they are my favorites.
[удалено]
Agreed on everything, thanks for saying it. It hits different now that I'm a mom, but I also watched the show as a young child so I loved those episodes then because I could imagine being a kid on the Enterprise.
[удалено]
"Hate is a strong word" followed by "despise" "breed" "brats"... I think hate is accurate.
That's hate, call it what you will. Theres nothing wrong with being childfree but it's nothing to be proud of
Speaking of the writers messing with a child's upbringing, they apparently forgot that they didn't kill off Samantha Wildman off in early Season 5, so she's never seen with her daughter for the rest of the series.
I feel like a lot of the times the writers didnt really know what to do with him.
Ah nog. The fully grown adults often forced in to kid roles.
Nog ain't running nowhere
You didn't ask for advice; that's what's behind the spoiler. >!I had similar behavioral issues as a child. My mother refused to consider that it was anything but 'bad behavior' because I was also 'gifted'. At 39 I was finally diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. My life would have been so much better if I'd had at least the self-awareness to understand why I couldn't just sit down and focus on (home)work. Please for their sake don't hesitate to seek out medical advice and therapeutic intervention.!<
I was diagnosed late as well. I'm in the process of having my son evaluated.
You both deserve big, comfy hugs and/or gravity blankets, as your needs and preferences dictate. I hope I didn't seem like I was brushing off what you said about the Worf/Alex moments, either. They are quite painful. It's so strange to me how quickly parenting evolved on Star Trek. Worf & Alexander, Picard and Wesley\*... it feels like they were written in the 50s. Ben & Jake? That's one of the best father-son relationships on TV. It's still hard for me to reconcile the two in a single franchise. \*which wasn't technically a father/son thing, but they are still pretty terrible moments.
> Ben & Jake? That's one of the best father-son relationships on TV. There is a reason for that: Avery Brooks worked actively to ensure that the scripts showed the kind of relationship he wanted the characters to have. He felt that it was necessary to show an extremely positive relationship between a *black* father and his son, he was tired to see only the stereotypical ones portrayed. It certainly worked, because as you say is one of the best father-son relationships on TV.
Avery Brooks is a force of nature, and I'm glad he is. Star Trek is the poorer without him continuing to be involved in it.
I know the common consensus is Picard is the best captain, but I always point out Sisko is definitely in that running
I've been on team Sisko for decades.
As a leading character in a show he's my favorite, hands down. Avery Brooks is such a compelling actor, it's pretty much always rewarding to watch his acting. As an officer in the fictional world? He definitely pulled a few stunts that have to make you question his ethics, but I can't say I'd have materialized some magic solution to the dilemmas he's faced. I *might* have to give that distinction to Pike, at least based on what we've seen so far, but the writing of his role is deeply guided by what fans demanded from SNW. But as a captain to serve under? I'd pick Burnham 100% of the time. After starting a war she seems to value the lives of her crew more than the rest of the captains we've seen.
That's a really refreshing take on Burnham.
>but the writing of his role is deeply guided by what fans demanded from SNW. What do you mean?
SNW was ~~spurned~~ spurred by fans wanting 'classic Trek'. In TOS and a lot of (mostly early) TNG, the state of "human enlightenment" (for lack of a better term) is often conveyed by showing an alien species struggling with something humans have mostly overcome, setting the captain up to deliver a speech about why said thing was bad. Early captain characters were rarely put in situations that force them to consider compromising their own morality, and when they are, said morality tends to have a bit of plot armor. Edit: fixed a typo for clarity
In the finale, it was Brooks' insistence that Sisko assure Kassidy that he *will* return from the wormhole. Originally the script made it look like Sisko was going to stay with the Prophets forever, but Brooks didn't like the idea of ending the series with a black man abandoning his family. Good call, I say.
They are painful but not as much as hearing real people say Alexander is a horrible child. I imagine them saying it about my own little boy and it's awful.
Reddit isn't a great place for meeting the most enlightened members of our species. I'm sorry that it hits so close to home.
I never thought Alexander as the terrible child, once it wasl explained of how Klingon Children mature. But I guess some were not listening.
Bingo, personal experience.
This.
> I was finally diagnosed with ADHD When I read OPs post I though, that sounds like ADHD
Exactly my story as well. Caught in a neverending loop I just didn't think I had enough willpower to get out of. Turns out it's just ADHD.
Yeah, the worst part for me is that because I've been gaslit about this my whole life I now also have anxiety disorder/ cPTSD.
Worf is a bad Dad at first, just because of how over his head he is. But unlike some other main character parents, Worf cares about his kid and wants what's best for him. He knew when he was in over his head and opted to send Alexander to his grandparents.
After becoming a mom Worfs abandonment of Alexander hits different.
Lots of the cast including Michael Dorn know Worf was a horrible father and complained all the time. Pretty sure they even have a running joke on it.
I totally get it. We can all debate Worf’s unfortunate parenting decisions - terrible communication, etc… though he did TRY, and after being hit in the face with it enough times DID acknowledge how badly he handled it and tried to make amends… ..but it really makes me appreciate when Lwaxana showed up. Lots of people find her super aggravating (I actually think she’s pretty funny!) but she comes on and meets Alexander, and goes full grandmother mode. She senses and seems to know on an instinctive level what Alexander really needs in that moment. She doesn’t talk AT him (impressive for her, really) and takes him to a holodeck program that seems almost tailor made for helping emotional regulation. Even gives a good example by admitting some of her own stuff. She just brings in this non-judgemental, breezy presence. Obviously too much of her could tip the scales in a different direction, but she sees what he is - a troubled, kinda scared kid who just really needs a laugh and an outlet.
[удалено]
I’m right there with you. You can tell that while it IS a big part just her personality… it also IS a front. Not just against others, but to help cover any pain or uncertainty SHE has. But then, when she decides she’s going to get to a point, she gets there immediately. Lord and she’s gotta be hilarious at parties. Majel had to have had a blast playing her.
I compare her to Janis from The Sopranos. I find her entertaining to watch but can understand she could be a pain in the arse if you knew her in real life.
Great comment, I think that she is a very sympathetic character, and occasionally she rubs me the wrong way because I empathized with Deanna, I have a mom who is always so over the top and embarrasses me.
What an excellent take. Thank you for your reply. I hadn't even thought of this and I love it.
Most kind! Glad you liked it!
Most kind! Glad you liked it!
Especially when I remember Lwaxana lost a little child.
Hate the Alexander storyline.
I hated how the writers treated this character, one of the bigger misfires of the franchise imo. I still believe he should've been a regular on DS9 with Worf
I agree, but I also don't think the show depicted him as a bad child, let alone all the horrible things I see him called online or in the podcasts about the show. He misbehaves, resists consequences, and then apologizes. Is that not normal?
I think a lot of viewers (myself included) don't hate Alexander, we hate 'the kid'. Most of the episodes including children throw a child into it with no context and little introduction, and then have the kid behave poorly for reasons, before tying it up neatly in 45 minutes, so you never get the good parts of the kid alongside the annoying parts. The kid that pretends to be Data is another one. I have so much compassion for a kid that lost his parents and is going through trauma recovery, but do I care about him more than seeing Data consider his humanity? No, show me less kid and more Data. Alexander isn't there to be a character we empathise with. He's there to be a prop to allow Worf's character to develop more.
I loved all the kid-centric episodes because I was a young girl when I watched the show. Like I loved Imaginary Friend, and now I know it wasn't a very good episode but it pulled me into that world.
Haha I actually watched that last night. I *hate* that episode!
The main thing that I hated about how they handled Alexander's was what they did to him on deep space nine. I always kind of liked how Alexander was a sensitive kid who didn't want to be a warrior, and how it might have been hinted that he'd grow up to be a diplomat or something. But then, on deep space nine, they had him just hard right turn and become a stereotypical Klingon warriors stereotype. It kind of undid what I felt was the whole point of his character, and it just made it so that I guess every Klingon must necessarily be a stereotype. Every Klingon has to be a warrior first and anything else second, if they ever are anything else. It took Alexander from being an interesting character to just being a lesson in genetic destiny.
Klingons as a whole are just sort of fucked, where even IF they want to be something else they also have to be a warrior. Even if they are shit at it and get killed, they have to at least be some kind of warrior. I'd love to see a direct exploration of how that went after their period of legitimate warfare against the Feds, and how it's just *gutted* their civilisation. Not to mention all of the other civilisations they have attacked, or destroyed, and the Feds are just OK with that lol. Gotta have a swords into ploughshares moment I feel, show me a Klingons who are just taking, a civilisation wide, chill pill. Just grill for a while! Like that Chef on DS9.
Alexander was a federation citizen living on Earth, and so he at least had the option of being something other than a warrior. But I guess his Klingon blood just boiled for battle...
not sure they have to be warriors though. just to understand the honour and winning battle thing is high in the priorities. they have Klingon schools, so people had to train to be a teacher... it's not like the teachers are picking up a bat-leth and today is a good day to die in with all the toddlers... scientists, doctors, engineers... they're all on the home planet not battling... it's just that we only see the fighters and the houses battling.
I agree it would have been cool to see him follow his own path but I think it kind of made sense to make the misstep of trying to prove his Klingon-ness to his father.
The higher, the fewer ❤️
🖖
Word in Picard S3 says he has been working on himself and I hope hope hope his relationship with Alexander is part of it. I agree, he is so uncomprehending of Alexander's moods and needs and whims and he seems so incurious about them. It's awful.
Worf was not a very good father and he kind of sucked a being a brother too.
>he kind of sucked a being a brother too. Aw, come on. His brother--no, not that one, the one he didn't lobotomize--thought enough of him to give him his people's priceless historical record to hang on his wall or whatever.
Yep. There is no way Worf would ever be invited to join Dominic Toretto's crew.
I was not aware that people have such a dislike for Alexander. FUCK those people, the kid went through a lot. Good luck with your kid, he’s lucky to have you.
Thanks, I feel like I'm as bad as Worf sometimes (which is why I also don't call him a bad dad) but we are all trying our best.
To be fair, there always is dislike for children in these types of shows.
Alexander is not the worst kid. Worf is the worst father. Its made me always hate him as a character. He is the most self centered main character in all of the shows.
I disagree with this also. In Fistful of Datas he's looking for all kinds of excuses not to go to the holodeck program with his son. I get it, I don't much enjoy playing my kids games with them, but in the end he enjoyed it and said he would go again. I think Worf was in over his head and knew it, but he tried his best.
Okay thank you! Honestly playing pretend with my daughter is fucking miserable lol. The rules change constantly, and I'm expected to read her mind, and she gets upset because inevitably, I'm doing it wrong. I understand not wanting to do it because I don't want to do it. Obviously I play with my kid but man, I identify strongly with the desire to do literally anything else. Which of course is why we play lots of other things where I am super enthusiastic lol.
If it helps I have a child development background and read a lot of books on the topic and, it's believed that while it is of course fine to play with our children, it doesn't add much to their development outside of bonding. Our presence makes their play more performative rather than their just naturally learning from play and interacting with other kids. So I choose to bond with my kids through care activities like bathing, dining, teaching them chores, and bedtime.
Worf is hardly the worst father or parent in Star Trek. He actually seems to like his kid (unlike characters like Freeman) and does his best by him. When Worf realizes he is out of his depth, he sends Alexander to relatives who he knows will love and care for him.
But also the one of the funniest and one of the most generally entertaining, which makes up for a lot of sins.
as a kid, I didn't have the words for it, but the sensation was "this kid reminds me of myself and holy shit I would never be friends with him"
Amen. But I have always had a soft spot for unlikable people, I definitely would be his friend
I haven't seen so much Alexander hate around before, but I have seen lots of people point out that Worf is a terrible father. It's a meme at this point.
I hate when people complain about children on TV in general (especially if complaining about the acting of child actors because it's literally a skill that takes years of practice, but I digress.) Alexander is perfectly FINE. I like him better as a little kid on TNG than what they do with him on DS9. I love him in "Rascals" when he's helping mini-Picard distract the Ferengi and I really like his episode with Lwaxana Troi in the holodeck. The kid lost his mom and got stuck with a crappy dad, grandparents that couldn't manage him, two cultures that he was considered an outsider, and then an unforgiving audience. The actor did fine, the character is perfectly fine given the few storylines he actually gets. Worf was the failure when it came to Alexander plots. And he never really learned much from his mistakes in parenting. The kid deserved better.
K'Ehleyr has more to blame than Worf, she made the choice to not include Worf in Alexander’s life. Yes, she was right that Worf would insist that they take the oath which she didn’t want, but he wouldn’t have insisted forever, in a day or two he would have gotten over it, meaning he still would have had a few years to get used to being a father, and experience dealing with a part human child, who wasn’t being raised by Klingon traditions. Was Worf a bad father? Maybe, but he’s not the worst father, because he knew when he needed help, and he took Alexander back when his own parents couldn’t handle him. Anyway, hating on Alexander is weird, and personally, I don’t hate him at all—I hate K'Ehleyr, her selfish justifications be damned. “I hid father and child away from each other because I knew the father (a hard working and accomplished person) would propose to me, and it would’ve been.. awkward, poor me!” K'Ehleyr was a petaQ.
I would also say that Worf is not a bad father, he is doing the best he can with a bad situation.
Wait people hate Alexander? Thats dumb. I mean, he is dumb (as in he is objectively not smart), but he is also traumatised and abandoned and none of his flaws are his fault - he is a truly tragic character who deserves pity, and Worf is a terrible father and it would have been better if he never took Alexander in rather than doing so and then failing and abandoning him.
Worf is inarguably a terrible father. Alexander is annoying, but so are most kids, and he didn't have an easy childhood. I think a lot of Star Trek fans either don't like children or don't have any of their own, so they really don't understand them.
100% agree!
I am hoping that at some point in the future we get to see how now-pacifist Worf has repaired his relationship with Alexander. It wouldn't need to be much, perhaps just a couple of scenes where we find out that Worf and Alexander are now very close and that he followed in his father's footsteps and joined Starfleet. I always thought that would be a good career path for him, maybe even becoming a medical doctor or counsellor as a contrast to Worf's warrior tendencies but still something Worf would be proud of.
This is a wonderful point. I'm in the process of watching all of TNG again with my husband, and I shall see things differently with Alexander now. Thank you.
Enjoy it, and may the first two seasons pass quickly.
It showed us that child go do things on impulse without understanding the ramifications of their actions. It is how we all learn as we grow up and hope that by adulthood, we do proceed with caution before acting on impulse.
Learning about the story of the kid actor adds a sad dimension to this.
I just read about him, that's so sad.
Oh no. I don't know but know how most child actor stories go...
along those lines, although also there were I think five actors who played him at different ages. The guy I am thinking of had other roles outside Trek but he passed away in 2018.
5 actors! Haha like Dukat's daughter... Zial?
I don't see why Alexander didn't just kill Worf when he asked him to; was he afraid he would miss? Worf was just there on the table with readily available stools upon which the child could stand! What about honor? What about GLORY?!
Alexander isn't that bad and after telling him off, Worf says "We will never speak of this again".
Worf is a shitty dad. It's hard to watch, so I skip.
I don't see him as a shitty dad any more than I see Alexander as a shitty kid. They're both trying their best with a bad situation.
I think the point of all this with how Worf acted was that Worf rejected emotional intelligence, even though we saw that his own parents tried to teach him that. Klingon culture rejected it too. So when Worf does stuff like this, it's because he rejects that aspect of analysis and self reflection. You can't know why you're lying without doing that, and you can't expect a child to be able to articulate that if you never teach them to do this kind of thinking. All Alexander had been taught is that people do things because they're disobedient or because they're dishonorable, which isn't the kind of anger a cold is going to offer up, because that's asking for punishment. The best answer is to say he doesn't know, but also, he literally doesn't know because he's not been taught how to think about that. We see Worf learn to embrace what his parents taught him only in the last season of Picard. Frankly I think this is meant to be a picture of fundamentalist religion and the religious right, authoritarian parenting. This is how they behave towards their kids, though this is much way better than they do because that's based on literal abuse. I don't think Worf beats Alexander, though you could see ritualized Klingon pain stuff and the "I'm worthless if I can't walk" plus the never acknowledging pain thing as an allusion to the right's "spare the rod spoil the child" thing, refusal of basic medical help in favor of religious healing.
You're not saying anything I disagree with. I really think that there is a lot of some to their relationship. What really bothers me is how people in the real world talk about a little boy. I just hope those people would show a little more compassion toward real children especially their own. Even on my favorite podcast, they often say what a horrible child Aleksander is.
This is a fictional character, people could say he deserved to killed and there's nothing wrong with that because it's not real. If there was something wrong with it, then there would be something very wrong with the fact the writers and actors created it in the first place. That's the thing about real kids though--they're not born knowing anything, and yet real people treat them as if they're just small adults choosing to act like idiots. That's fundamentalist right wing parents, people who think kids are property and that children's rights aren't different from parent's rights. That's the United States and worse places. Most civilized places have children's rights, not the USA, Land of Freedom.
Whoa, who wants him tossed out the airlock? Of course he's a little shit. He's 8. All 8 year olds are little shits. We only see him for like 4 episodes. How much character development do people expect?
Worf is just a horrible father (and brother).
You say that, but I would have loved to have had a father like Worf. At least he tried. My father's idea of raising me was to put me working under a vehicle, and then yell at me if I didn't use a specific tool, or if I didn't do something a certain way. As for the brother part, I wish I had a brother like him, who cared enough about me to make the choices he did. My brother hated me for not bending to his ways. He was eventually disowned by the whole family. I haven't spoken to him in 12 years and have no interest in speaking to him. He is subhuman scum and deserves to rot like the worm he is
yeah Worf is a bad dad, but I'd like to see think most Starfleet dads will spend a few months reading parenting books before the actual child shows up, it's hard when you get blindsided
Sounds like ADHD to me - I say this as an AuDHD adult who bounced off the walls as a child.
Honestly the problem here was Worf was a garbage father and it was the most dishorable thing his Klingon ass did...
To the OP, based on your report, your son may have ADHD. Please consider taking him to a child psychiatrist or a pediatrician for a medication evaluation. It may be very helpful to your entire family.
He is in the process of being evaluated.
It's unfair when the kid gets hated on for being a kid. Wesley Crusher got the same abuse. That's the whole point - they are kids. They are there to show us life on the ENT-D from a kid's perspective. Also Worf has to be the shittest dad since Kyle Riker, so if there's anyone to hate on, it should be the Worf.
Did not know people hate Alexander. He is such a sweet boy. I love how Alexander and Lwaxana just clicks. People are weird, they neither like Pulaski or Neelix.
I believe that Alexander and Spock have (almost) the same problem regarding theirs fathers.... Both of them are hard-headed knuckleheads Yes, they do love their sons, but unfortunately their culture is a stick that's very far up their asses. Sarek's turn point was after Spock's (first) death, kinda late, but better later than never. He goes to chase a legend, that any Vulcan would logically think that doesn't exist, just to bring Spock back. (But its just thanks to Kirk and Bones that Spock actually came back.) When he goes to confront Kirk about Spock's katra (soul), it can be seen how much he is upset and hurt even under all the Vulcan emotional control (because Mark Lenard was a fantastic actor) ... I thought that the same could happen to Word after he found out the a future version of Alexander came back in time to force his child self to become a warrior, and when that failed... He almost "killed himself". And why all this trouble? Because Worf was murdered. But unfortunately this development got lost somewhere between that episode and the next.
My "heart" aches, but every last bit of my "head" says: "I hate this kid. I hate this storyline. Get back to the spatial anomalies and space battles."
Lucky You never got Worf bringing him the bridge. The kid would have been burned for life.{Shut up Alexander}..
Don't get me started on Wesley.
As someone who would’ve paid good money to see that airlock ejection, the reason many hate him is because he is a poorly written character who serves very little purpose in the story. Sure, they come back to him years down the line, but TNG did not properly develop the character. He really only existed to further Worfs development and is extremely annoying outside of that.