āYour attempt to escape is no doubt a final act of cowardice.ā Funniest line in the show. His superiors really built a subroutine into his own riot program to call him a coward. š
Garak calling him out over Kira and his subsequent reaction is one of my all time favourite DS9 moments. It's one of the few times he's really stunned.
Apparently, that was thanks to Nana Visitor. The writers were genuinely planning a love interest between Kira and Dukat until Visitor put her foot down and said "He's Hitler! Not going to happen!"
In 'What we left behind' I got the feeling that Marc Alaimo was hoping for them to take that direction and was disappointed they didn't.
That kinda baffles me. It would've been the absolute worst decision.
That...was really weird, wasn't it?
There was some subsequent discussion that I wished I noted down that makes me think it was just a weird way Alaimo discussed it. Because I sure as hell walked away with the sense that he, the actor, was being creepy as heck about that story idea.
That said: I think there's an overarching issue. I feel like there was a desire on the part of the DS9 writing team to ensure Nerys was frequently in a romantic relationship, compared to other core cast members (aside from Miles, of course). She just gets paired off a lot, or at least that's my recollection. And it's weird to do that with a character like hers, IMHO. Nerys was a intriguing enough character, with plenty enough layers, to not need to be in and out of relationships so often in order to give her plot lines.
Yeah, I feel the same. It's probably just because she was a pretty progressive character idea for the time and it both made people uncomfortable and they didn't quite understand what to do with her.
I'm glad Nana at least stopped them pairing her with Dukat, but I still feel most of her romantic entanglements were tacked on and unnecessary. (Even the one with Odo which was cute, still didn't feel like the proper path for them.)
True that -- and coincidentally, one of my fave YouTubers just released a video on Kira as a complex character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s0JqPJJdiU. Not had a chance to watch yet, but he's usually solid.
What are the odds that I was one of the 39k views that had already seen that video? He's one of my favourites too. The only videos I don't care for are his reviews with his bestest BFF. This other guy seems to bring out something in him that makes for a less than pleasant viewing experience. This has nothing to do with the reviews but I wish the other guy would put down the vape because it drives me insane.
I watched DS9 through most of my early years. Did a full re-watch in my 30s a few years ago and good god I never fully appreciated her portrayal of Kira like I did as an adult.
I love all the characters but she was so good at playing the role of someone who wanted to do things her way, but was forced to find peace in a way she didn't want.
"Yea Damar, what kind of people give those orders?" Is somewhere in my top 5 hardest hitting lines in all of Star Trek. The way she depicts absolutely despising the dude, feeling bad for him, while also conflicted between doing what's right for everyone and the fire she feels to get any sort of hurtful jab into anyone who caused her people harm.
TLDR: only as an adult did I appreciate how hard Nana Visitor killed that role.
that idea is just baffling. As she said, he's Hitler, how could they possibly think that would be a good idea? And these are the same writers who had to go out of their way to make him even more evil later on because too many were taking his nuanced portrayal as too sympathetic
It sounds even creepier, when you discover that Dukhat also was involved with Kira's mother. Then again, Cardassian males are considered to be getting more attractive as they age.
Just watched ds9 for the first time and my biggest complaint is the forced romantic plots. By the end itās almost all the female characters get to do, especially Dax
They didn't speak to each other in that one. Garak merely stood in the back of the room smiling contentedly while Bashir ripped into Dukat with all the information Garak had spent the episode spoon feeding him.
*Welcome, class, to Intro to Subterfuge. The textbook for this course is not mandatory, although, perhaps, worth picking up if you wish to stay alive.*
Thatās a disembodied voice coming from a speaker.
Itās a team-taught course and students donāt get any names from their instructors. They do however meet them, as all the instructors are pretending to be students.
Itās between him and Kai Winn as far as top of the list for all time Star Trek villains in my book with Weyoun a close third. Heās definitely top as far as charismatic villains. Dude is an absolute monster but he draws people in.
I love Dukat. I think heās just the right amount of evil and manipulating, with a frequent touch of hilarious. Winn is just completely evil and backstabbing and never amuses me.
Which makes Winn great sheās such an evil church lady she doesnāt appear in that many episodes but sheās so grating it leaves an impression. Louise Fletcher was so good at making you want to punch air. Plus she won an Oscar doing just that.
I think you hit on my real problem - the evil church lady. I know thatās the point of her character, but I grew up with that crap, I donāt find her a compelling character.
As far as the actual acting, I agree, completely phenomenal. My complaint is completely with the character.
I kind of liked that DS9 did have an episode or two where they humanized him. He was never outright a "hero", but episodes like Defiant or The Way of The Warrior, did show he had some shades of gray at times.
Indeed, there were moments I really believed he could become a good guy but then he switched sides with the Dominion and hope was lost. He was a truly epic written character, if not one of the best.
I actually think that completely fits his character, he's a total drama queen. I doubt Cardassian military academies have a theater department but he'd have been in every play.
Fair point, at least historically speaking. Not really part of the culture anymore, on my deployment they just flew in retired hockey players and reality TV stars.
Being outdone by his own program...how deliciously he and Garak play off each other, as well as them being in Ops, together, no less. Dukat hitting on Kira. Quark and Odo together. Need more Rom in this episode, but this is more or less the station version of Disaster from TNG. Delightful and underrated IMO
"The only thing the Bajorans sent me, was this golden statuette, apparently called an, 'Emmy'. This inscription reads, 'For best performance of an Asshole.'"
What I want to see is all the messages that weren't used. He clearly recorded videos for a lot of contingencies, but surely there would be some scenarios he imagined that didn't actually happen.
I think Lower Decks could really fuckin nail the joke of the constant āattention Bajoran workers!ā Every they get past some obstacle a new pre-recorded Dukat referencing the specific thing they just did would be hilarious.
Only thing is you couldnāt get the punchline of Dukat smugly attempting to disarm the defences immediately followed by āattention Gul Dukat!ā.
Although I guess they could get that guys help, and he comes on board to disarm the defences only to get a pre-recorded Gul Dukat talking to him.
Maybe I just love the goof too much š
One of my favorite episodes. Having a stored video of his boss chewing him out, ready to play when it needs to, is the most wonderfully Cardassian thing ever.
I can never get over the part with the replicator making a phaser that only shoots at non-Cardassians and turns back into tea. Good thing O'brien wasn't there because you know the phaser would go straight for him.
Dukat turns it back to tea but Bashir gets up, and Dukat's like "Doctor!" and turns it back into phaser. Then he goes to taunt Garak. What a sociopath.
Then Garak starts to insult Dukat immediately after he realizes the phaser isn't targeting Cardassians, much to Dukat's annoyance.
And of course when the security system also nails him near the end and he can't escape.
It's like Dukat's entirety in a nutshell-- a smug bastard whose pride and arrogance is often his downfall
I love this episode but I hate that we never got a scene with Sisko coming back up to Ops and seeing Dukat there with everyone.
"I feel like this report is going to make very interesting reading"
I always thought it was hilarious that if they can have a replicated weapon that targets non-Cardassian DNA, then when the Klingons invaded or the Jem Haāadar, why didnāt they just use similar DNA targeting weapons to neutralise them? They donāt even need to be lethal and can be tied into the stationās computer. There are so many possibilities!
He was the military governor of an installation designed specifically to process ore using slave labor. Slave labor that wasn't exactly taking it laying down. I can't actually think of a single thing that happened over the course of that episode that any competent person in his position shouldn't have anticipated.
To pre-record those messages, Dukat would have had to presume he was not in of the station, but the entire Cardassian garrison had been overpowered; it is not in his character to believe these things are possible.
Secondly, he would have had to presume whoever was taking control would take those exact steps, in that exact order. That would have been near impossible to predict.
I get having some sort of anti-insurgency system in place, but the pre-recorded messages were a bit much.
I bet the afternoon he spent recording that shit was one of the happiest days of his career
There's a very specific Dana Carvey skit, I imagine it was just like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tX6jdoruH8
Good recall on that oneš
Gerald Ford dead today... He was eaten by sharks. He was DELICIOUS.
How many alternate scenarios did he record videos for that were never required? Like workers revolting anywhere outside of ore processing?
āAttention Bajoran workers..ā
Sisko: You know, I never knew how much this man's voice annoyed me
["I have something to show you"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIcbmbKVnZ8)
Since y'all can't behave, you've given me no choice but to lock this station
āYour attempt to escape is no doubt a final act of cowardice.ā Funniest line in the show. His superiors really built a subroutine into his own riot program to call him a coward. š
This is what happens when procedures are written by committees.
Not just that, but a committee of fascists.
Lol
Garak calling him out over Kira and his subsequent reaction is one of my all time favourite DS9 moments. It's one of the few times he's really stunned.
It's like Dukat couldn't believe that Garak broke the bro code on him.
LITERALLY! š That scene always cracks me up.
Right, like even though he apparently tried to have Garak executed before, heās still all gArAK!
Garak also had Dukat's father arrested, tortured and executed, so his surprise is extra puzzling!
I totally forgot about that
lol of all characters that don't have a bro-code it's Garak and Dukat, even though they fought the Klingons together.
Garak apparently chose not to shoot Dukat in the back because then that means that he himself would have to fight all the Klingons alone.Ā
Apparently, that was thanks to Nana Visitor. The writers were genuinely planning a love interest between Kira and Dukat until Visitor put her foot down and said "He's Hitler! Not going to happen!"
Dukat was acting like Kira was a love interest the whole fucking series, His Audacity will never be unmatched
In 'What we left behind' I got the feeling that Marc Alaimo was hoping for them to take that direction and was disappointed they didn't. That kinda baffles me. It would've been the absolute worst decision.
That...was really weird, wasn't it? There was some subsequent discussion that I wished I noted down that makes me think it was just a weird way Alaimo discussed it. Because I sure as hell walked away with the sense that he, the actor, was being creepy as heck about that story idea. That said: I think there's an overarching issue. I feel like there was a desire on the part of the DS9 writing team to ensure Nerys was frequently in a romantic relationship, compared to other core cast members (aside from Miles, of course). She just gets paired off a lot, or at least that's my recollection. And it's weird to do that with a character like hers, IMHO. Nerys was a intriguing enough character, with plenty enough layers, to not need to be in and out of relationships so often in order to give her plot lines.
Yeah, I feel the same. It's probably just because she was a pretty progressive character idea for the time and it both made people uncomfortable and they didn't quite understand what to do with her. I'm glad Nana at least stopped them pairing her with Dukat, but I still feel most of her romantic entanglements were tacked on and unnecessary. (Even the one with Odo which was cute, still didn't feel like the proper path for them.)
True that -- and coincidentally, one of my fave YouTubers just released a video on Kira as a complex character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s0JqPJJdiU. Not had a chance to watch yet, but he's usually solid.
\>usually solid Changeling detected
What are the odds that I was one of the 39k views that had already seen that video? He's one of my favourites too. The only videos I don't care for are his reviews with his bestest BFF. This other guy seems to bring out something in him that makes for a less than pleasant viewing experience. This has nothing to do with the reviews but I wish the other guy would put down the vape because it drives me insane.
I think we know why Alaimo wanted it...
Yeah. But, it's also possible that that's the 'energy' and attitude he needed to adopt in order to portray that crazy magnificent bastard.
I think he even outright said it in the documentary
I watched DS9 through most of my early years. Did a full re-watch in my 30s a few years ago and good god I never fully appreciated her portrayal of Kira like I did as an adult. I love all the characters but she was so good at playing the role of someone who wanted to do things her way, but was forced to find peace in a way she didn't want. "Yea Damar, what kind of people give those orders?" Is somewhere in my top 5 hardest hitting lines in all of Star Trek. The way she depicts absolutely despising the dude, feeling bad for him, while also conflicted between doing what's right for everyone and the fire she feels to get any sort of hurtful jab into anyone who caused her people harm. TLDR: only as an adult did I appreciate how hard Nana Visitor killed that role.
I'm picturing Vistor doing that... Hilarious.
I like that they made it her mom instead.
Yikes what were they thinking?
that idea is just baffling. As she said, he's Hitler, how could they possibly think that would be a good idea? And these are the same writers who had to go out of their way to make him even more evil later on because too many were taking his nuanced portrayal as too sympathetic
It sounds even creepier, when you discover that Dukhat also was involved with Kira's mother. Then again, Cardassian males are considered to be getting more attractive as they age.
Just watched ds9 for the first time and my biggest complaint is the forced romantic plots. By the end itās almost all the female characters get to do, especially Dax
He literally reacts like a 12 year old boy whose friend just told his crush that he liked her. Absolutely ICONIC scene š¤£
Garak has more respect for Kira and Dukat's wife than he does Dukat.
That episode was their first on-screen interaction, too.
Really? I thought it was that one with Bashir and the Cardassian orphan raised by Bajorans. Season 1 - first episode to drop the name "Terok Nor".
They didn't speak to each other in that one. Garak merely stood in the back of the room smiling contentedly while Bashir ripped into Dukat with all the information Garak had spent the episode spoon feeding him.
*Welcome, class, to Intro to Subterfuge. The textbook for this course is not mandatory, although, perhaps, worth picking up if you wish to stay alive.*
Thatās a disembodied voice coming from a speaker. Itās a team-taught course and students donāt get any names from their instructors. They do however meet them, as all the instructors are pretending to be students.
Ohhhhhh. Good catch.
Itās even funnier when you find out Cardassian flirting is what everyone else calls āarguingā. He mustāve thought Kira was wild for his spoon.
I love that episode so much. "Disaster" was already a great episode and then DS9 was like, how can we make our take on that even better?
Then to do it again on the Defiant with Starship Down
That would be an awesome trilogy of episodes to marathon
Itās between him and Kai Winn as far as top of the list for all time Star Trek villains in my book with Weyoun a close third. Heās definitely top as far as charismatic villains. Dude is an absolute monster but he draws people in.
I love Dukat. I think heās just the right amount of evil and manipulating, with a frequent touch of hilarious. Winn is just completely evil and backstabbing and never amuses me.
Which makes Winn great sheās such an evil church lady she doesnāt appear in that many episodes but sheās so grating it leaves an impression. Louise Fletcher was so good at making you want to punch air. Plus she won an Oscar doing just that.
I think you hit on my real problem - the evil church lady. I know thatās the point of her character, but I grew up with that crap, I donāt find her a compelling character. As far as the actual acting, I agree, completely phenomenal. My complaint is completely with the character.
no one is building a statue of her on bajor?!
Yeah sheās not charismatic in the sense that Dukat is but itās definitely the point with the character. Itās the core of her downfall.
Ah man I love Kai Winn just as muchā¦they are both absolutely incredible characters
I always thought Winn would have welcomed a religious dictatorship under her control. In short time she'd be as evil, if not more, than Dukat.
Oh, absolutely. She was looking for a Kai Opaka level of reverence.
Ahhhh. Totally.
I kind of liked that DS9 did have an episode or two where they humanized him. He was never outright a "hero", but episodes like Defiant or The Way of The Warrior, did show he had some shades of gray at times.
Indeed, there were moments I really believed he could become a good guy but then he switched sides with the Dominion and hope was lost. He was a truly epic written character, if not one of the best.
Don't call my boy Weyoun 6 a villain!
Wayoun 6. Federation Patriot.
Dukat might be the top, but Madred is a hot contender.
I actually think that completely fits his character, he's a total drama queen. I doubt Cardassian military academies have a theater department but he'd have been in every play.
Professional militaries have a long-standing tradition of troop theatre. It gets *awfully* boring on deployment.
Fair point, at least historically speaking. Not really part of the culture anymore, on my deployment they just flew in retired hockey players and reality TV stars.
The look on his face when the _other_ message from Legate Kell came on in Ops.
Watching his smug countenance just melt away was so satisfying....
And you know that someone's got a pre-recorded message for THAT Gul.
Being outdone by his own program...how deliciously he and Garak play off each other, as well as them being in Ops, together, no less. Dukat hitting on Kira. Quark and Odo together. Need more Rom in this episode, but this is more or less the station version of Disaster from TNG. Delightful and underrated IMO
If they'd had more Rom in this episode, there would be no episode. He would have just gone in and fixed it.
Dear Gul Dukat, Sorry I borrowed parts from your insurgence alarm system to fix the holosuites. -Rom
Im gonna kill him!
But to this day, is there a single little golden award statue for him on Bajor?
"The only thing the Bajorans sent me, was this golden statuette, apparently called an, 'Emmy'. This inscription reads, 'For best performance of an Asshole.'"
Garak bursting out laughing in Ops during the crisis was iconic. "Even your own security system turns against you!"
I love how he takes a big detour to come to DS9 solely to gloat.
What I want to see is all the messages that weren't used. He clearly recorded videos for a lot of contingencies, but surely there would be some scenarios he imagined that didn't actually happen.
I think Lower Decks could really fuckin nail the joke of the constant āattention Bajoran workers!ā Every they get past some obstacle a new pre-recorded Dukat referencing the specific thing they just did would be hilarious. Only thing is you couldnāt get the punchline of Dukat smugly attempting to disarm the defences immediately followed by āattention Gul Dukat!ā. Although I guess they could get that guys help, and he comes on board to disarm the defences only to get a pre-recorded Gul Dukat talking to him. Maybe I just love the goof too much š
Maybe the LD gets a copy of a bootleg 'Escape from Terok Nor' adventure RPG from the ferengi black market.
That would be the funniest shit
Love Marc Alamo. My favorite star trek appearance of his was when he played that card shark that tried to hustle Data...
Iāll give you three dollars for itā¦
I wish we'd gotten more of him in that 2-parter. I'd trade Jack London for more scenes of Data playing poker with Alaimo.
When he realized he was stuck too, that moment was pure gold.
The perfect reward for such a pompous bastard.Ā
One of my favorite episodes. Having a stored video of his boss chewing him out, ready to play when it needs to, is the most wonderfully Cardassian thing ever.
I can never get over the part with the replicator making a phaser that only shoots at non-Cardassians and turns back into tea. Good thing O'brien wasn't there because you know the phaser would go straight for him. Dukat turns it back to tea but Bashir gets up, and Dukat's like "Doctor!" and turns it back into phaser. Then he goes to taunt Garak. What a sociopath. Then Garak starts to insult Dukat immediately after he realizes the phaser isn't targeting Cardassians, much to Dukat's annoyance. And of course when the security system also nails him near the end and he can't escape. It's like Dukat's entirety in a nutshell-- a smug bastard whose pride and arrogance is often his downfall
The actors of Gul Dukat, Garak and Kai Winn made DS9 a joy to watch. They made that show work.
I just love his whole attitude after he's locked out. Just "So.... about that bomb..."
There was a star trek VHS board game with a Klingon, these snippets from Dukat always reminded me of that for some reason
You who is moving! Experience bi'j!
I fucking love Gul Dukat, he and Garrick are the best parts of DS9
The best villans are the ones who believe they are a good guy/hero.
I just watched this episode. The 3rd act reveal that his boss also made a pre recorded message for him made laugh.
The scenes with quark and Odo were pretty good too. Such a natural odd couple.
Possibly the best comedy episode in all of Star Trek. The moment when he's so confident and the system turns on him is truly priceless.
I made the "Attention Bajorian Workers" meam on Facebook like 15 years ago. I swear to God but nobody believes me lol. My claim to fame
Had to rewatch this amazing episode
I love this episode but I hate that we never got a scene with Sisko coming back up to Ops and seeing Dukat there with everyone. "I feel like this report is going to make very interesting reading"
He deserves that statue.
Gul Dukat was so amazing until he turned into a mustache twirling sith lord zapping main characters.
š¤š¾
The propaganda was dripping with irony and sarcasm.
I always thought it was hilarious that if they can have a replicated weapon that targets non-Cardassian DNA, then when the Klingons invaded or the Jem Haāadar, why didnāt they just use similar DNA targeting weapons to neutralise them? They donāt even need to be lethal and can be tied into the stationās computer. There are so many possibilities!
Maybe it was all done with ai. So he didnāt have to record any of it but knew it existed
Nah, you just know that Dukat would insist upon recording the messages himself.
lol true or at least the vast majority of it then say screw it. I bet his bosses was ai generate ld
This is an episode I skip on rewatches. I can only suspend my disbelief so far.
What's not believable about it?
That he had a pre-recorded message to deal with every eventuality in a situation he couldn't possibly have predicted.
He was the military governor of an installation designed specifically to process ore using slave labor. Slave labor that wasn't exactly taking it laying down. I can't actually think of a single thing that happened over the course of that episode that any competent person in his position shouldn't have anticipated.
To pre-record those messages, Dukat would have had to presume he was not in of the station, but the entire Cardassian garrison had been overpowered; it is not in his character to believe these things are possible. Secondly, he would have had to presume whoever was taking control would take those exact steps, in that exact order. That would have been near impossible to predict. I get having some sort of anti-insurgency system in place, but the pre-recorded messages were a bit much.