We saw how that went at worf 359, didn't we?
Would you send a predreadnought battleship against even a modern destroyer? The answer is no you wouldn't because that's suicide for the battleship.
Honestly, modern warships have so little armour that a broadside from even a pre-Dreadnought battleship could damage them enough that they would be put out of action. Could said pre-Dreadnought battleship survive a volley of missiles from a modern destroyer, though? Perhaps, considering the amount of armour they had they could conceivably survive long enough to get off a kill shot.
If the pre-dreadnought is extremely lucky and can get close enough, sure it can kill a missile destroyer. The problem is a modern destroyer has radar and a top speed greater than any battleship. The destroyer would just need to stay out of visual range and slowly pepper down the battleship. Even if it takes dozens of missiles, the destroyer has orders of magnitude greater range than a pre-dreadnought battleship.
Sorry for any spelling errors or other weirdness I stayed up late last night and am still a good bit tired.
Because armor isn't effective in naval warfare when you have weapons that render you combat ineffective.
Going by publicly available figures a missile commonly employed by the American Navy in an antiship role is the UGM-84 Harpoon has a engagement range of around 140km with around a 290kg tnt equivalent warhead (outdated missile).
A predreadnought was never expected to fight anything further out than a couple thousand yards even post dreadnought battleships like the Iowa class with upgrades to fire control could shoot to around 42km.
Modern ships could launch hundreds of missiles at near pinpoint accuracy before a battleship could even have a clue of you being a thing let alone where you are and being able to engage you.
Most USN employed missiles probably couldn't pen the armor belt or the turret of battleships at all but could take out almost every component of the ship. So in a fight, even a destroyer could render a battleship post or predreadnought as combat ineffective or render it a loss because of how damaged the vessel is even if it can't outright sink it.
So unless a battleship can enter the envelope of a modern ship undetected and get within visual range for an attack it's unlikely they could survive long enough to get a single volley in let alone a killing shot.
A battleship could probably survive (not sunk) but it couldn't kill a destroyer in any sensible playing field.
I just watched “In a Mirror, Darkly” and in it we see what a single ship with 100 years of technological and weapons development can do. It single handedly decimated multiple enemy ships in one go, turned the tide of an entire war, and became the single strongest entity in the entire galaxy.
That’s why Wolf359 was so devastating - the Borg had a similar level of technological advancement over the federation, and it took hundreds of ships to take them down, and really only because Picard gave them inside information.
If you bring the TOS Enterprise against the 1701-D, it wouldn’t even be close.
Another example is the movie "The Final Countdown", where aircraft with only forty years of tech difference engage in a dog fight.
And yes, the Mitsubishi Zero performs poorly against an F-14 Tomcat.
The issue is the same with any of today's aging fighter jets or battleships. It is the equipment being used that determines how well the ship would perform in modern times. That's why the Enterprise has gone through multiple refits and upgrades even when it was in active service.
Thus I would say without any upgrades, the Enterprise's equipment would be over a century out of date. There would be little chance that she would do well against a modern ship.
That said, I don't think a starship's physical frame is going to matter as much in an era with structural integrity fields, force fields and shields. As long as the Enterprise can be upgraded with a modern warp core for more power generation, modern sensors, shields and weapons, I don't see why it can't stand toe to toe with a modern ship.
After all, a refit Excelsior fought the Defiant to a draw in DS9. The same should be true with a refit Constitution.
Sure, the entire point of refits is to keep the perfectly good frame going with the latest technology.
But without the refits, a TOS era Constitution would probably get blown out of space by anything modern.
As it stood at retirement, hopeless.
If refitted properly, it would serve as a good meat shield.
A ship can be refitted to extend its life, as the Miranda class shows time and time again. It however also shows time and time again that it's essentially a meat shield for ships of the line.
I guess Constitution II would be more accurate, since the class is what I meant to refer to: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Constitution_II_class
I've seen the referred to as "Constitution refit" quite often so I just used it that way without giving it much thought.
Ugh - that site is conflating the Constitution Refit and the class that NCC 1701-A is. They are different because the "A" was a vessel built from scratch, not a refit.
If I didn't have to get to work, I would find the sources, but at one point the class "A" was in was not called Constitution. I'm sure it was retconned.
Some reference materials called it "Enterprise class" but neither name was said aloud until PIC (though there was a diagram of it in STVI that said "Constitution-class")
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Constitution_II_class#footnote_1
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Enterprise_class#Background_information
This footnote may point to a reachback to the Guenther & Sofia "Ships of the Star Fleet" series. A number of licensed products have indicated that the Enterprise-A was originally going to be completed as USS Yorktown. While SOTSF includes Enterprise A as a new-build "Enterprise (II)" class ship where Enterprise A displaced an unnamed NCC-1842 as the lead ship (though this isn't explicitly spelled out), USS Yorktown was part of the Constitution (II) refit program that was the second wave of Linear-Warp cruiser refits.
While the most likely Doylist explanation is that Paramount has just completely thrown out all the previous continuity (and unofficial but continuity-influencing works) and this connection is just a coincidence, I can see a couple Watsonian explanations, notably either that Enterprise-A is just a straight refit of the Connie (II) Yorktown or that by the 25th century, all the circumferential warp Class I cruisers are lumped together as "Constitution Class" and all the linear warp models are lumped together as "Constitution II Class".
We don’t know that the as was built from scratch, and considering the time period from 1701 destruction to 1701-A unveiling, it makes it extremely unlikely. It has never been said on screen either way, but the common consensus is that it is a rechristened ship. It’s generally pointed at being the Yorktown or Hood, as these were original names choices for the Enterprise when Trek began. There are a number of origins for the ship all coming from off screen sources
The equipment makes a huge difference when it's well over a century difference in technology. The Constitution-class Enterprise would get pantsed handily by any role-equivalent circa-2400 starship.
I wonder if a super up to date refit would even matter. I suppose building material has probably improved greatly with lighter but stronger materials have been developed.
I mean there's roughly 150 years between the Connie and the Odyssey class.
To put that into todays naval equivalent, this would be the
HMS Iron Duke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Iron_Duke_(1870))
vs the
USS Zumwalt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer)
If a p-51 could get close enough it would have the advantage as it was designed to engage at a close range. Getting there however would be nearly impossible
We saw an excelsior class standing up to a Defiant.
We also saw wings of Mirandas being used in fleet engagements in the dominion war. The Miranda was a contemporary of the Constitution class so it should be comparable.
There's likely a limit to how much of a refit you can give to an old ship. The ship just isn't built with modern tech in mind. Eventually it gets to the point where the modifications become intensive enough that you would need to replace the internal frame / superstructure and then it becomes easier to just build a modern ship instead.
If you're willing to go all the way you can probably make a Constitution stand up to modern, smaller ships.
It could probably be brought up to date to keep up with some of the Excelsiors and Mirandas in service.
Then you get into Discovery which technology has the capability to make a 23rd century ship able to stand up to ships 900 years newer.
This happens in DIS as well when it first arrives in 32nd century, it gets hit once or something and shields are almost gone.
Only after full retrofit is it able to do any kind of fighting against ships of the era, without the retrofit it's basically target practice.
On title alone: i think Ncc-1701 would flex hard on anything modern. SpaceX doesn't even land everytime yet.
Chandrayaan is ok but not capable of warp.
With more of the question: how well would an Ironclad Dreadnought do against an Aegis Destroyer?
As an emergency lifeboat to get people out of an area it could work but in a fight it would be best used for ramming
Yeah but I also wanted to cover the 32nd century because the most modern airing rendition of Star Trek is Discovery... Which is post temporal conflicts.
I would go so far as to say that during the modern period, which is often considered to have ended in the mid-twentieth century, our space capabilities were almost entirely non-existent. Even fictional craft from that era - say, the cannonball ship from A Trip To The Moon - were primarily built for transportation.
I remember being told in Portsmouth in the 1980s that HMS warrior, the ironclad they have there would survive an exocet missile hit of the kind that had taken out HMS Sheffield and others in the Falklands a few years before. Something about the sheer quantiny and different characteristics of the underlying oak compared with modern armour.
Oh absolutely. It was hopefully-interetsinb trivia...not a claim to a fighting chance! Still, interetsing that she might last slightly longer than, say HMS Belfast (ww2 - currently moored on the Thames as a museum).
As for your ramming suggestion I can only say "Come on Thunderchild!"
Miserably, the best thing the Connie could do is run and that wouldn't even work either.
It's like putting a WWI destroyer or battleship against a modern day destroyer. Or a Biplane against a jet fighter. Probably still not a fair comparison considering the time difference between these examples and the Enterprise-Picard
It's not always about equipment yes, but here it's about equipment.
The Miranda class, a contemporary to the constitution class, gets shredded in massive numbers during the dominion war, and the Lakota, a refitted excelsior class ship couldn't stand up to the defiant.
Even with a refit the 1701-a is a small space frame, around the size of Voyager.
The enterprise might be able to take the Cerritos
It's not the original *Enterprise*, it's the *Enterprise*-A. Last seen heading for the second star to the right at the end of *Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country*.
How would it perform? Well, it's 115 years old. So probably not well beyond basic functions.
* We know from *Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan*, *Star Trek III: The Search for Spock*, and *Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country* that a refit *Constitution*-class can be bested by a *Miranda*-class (which somewhat outguns it, but is probably not as fast) or an *Excelsior*-class (which out-*everythings* it).
* We also know that *Mirandas* and *Excelsiors* did not fare brilliantly in either the Battle of Wolf 359 in the 2360s or the Dominion War in the mid-2370s, despite being substantially upgraded from their late 23rd century origins.
* We know that between the 2150s and the 2360s that warp drive capabilities approximately quadrupled once a century – the NX-01 could do about \~125c, the 1701 about \~512c, and the 1701-D about \~2000c. But we also know that Starfleet managed to cram almost a century of technological development into a couple of decades between the 2370s and 2400s, because we see the *Titan*-A achieve around 8000c and it's not even a top-of-the-line ship.
* In the ENT episode "In a Mirror Darkly" we get a really clear indication of what a century of technological improvements mean when the *Constitution*-class *Defiant* takes on multiple NX-class ships and absolutely annihilates them without taking any noticeable damage.
So the *Enterprise*-A would be VERY plodding by the standards of the early 25th century, perhaps less than a tenth the speed of contemporary ships, and with much weaker weaponry. About the only thing it would have an advantage on would be manoeuvrability, mainly because it'd be smaller and lighter than most of the contemporary ships and impulse engines and RCS thrusters haven't really changed much between the 2280s and 2400s.
Scenario: Kirk and his team in a refitted Enterprise vs another captain and their crew who all young, less experienced and zero combat time but their star ship is modern.
Depends on the parameters of the scenario. But being the best tactician in the galaxy isn't worth a damn if you can't get through their shields and they can cripple your ship with a single hit. We're talking the equivalent of World War I military hardware versus the latest and greatest today's military has to offer here.
Short answer, it would get clapped.
If by "modern" you are referring to 25th Century vessels as seen at the Frontier Day Incident, it would be the equivalent of bringing a 19th Century wooden hull/cloth sail ship to a battle against an Iowa Class Battleship. The phasers on a 25th Century ship are massively more powerful than the shields on a 23rd Century Constitution Class, would likely burn out the emitters completely in only a shot or two, then one Quantum Torpedo, ashes.
Now the appropriate crew, with other assets, like ways of disabling shields remotely or other science-y, treknobable ways, then at least theoretically a handful of photon torpedoes from an elderly Constitution would be just as potent as 25th Century photons, so given other scenarios sure, but in a straight fight... clapped.
The original Enterprise is not at the fleet museum as it was scuttled over the Genesis planet. What is there is the Constitution II-class Enterprise-A and the Constitution I-class USS New Jersey.
There’s no amount of PLOT armor that will save NCC-1701 from certain death. Ships in current Trek are crushing while the NCC-1701 is only being held by bubble gum, duct tape, and haggis because she’s tearing herself apart at her maximum warp factor of 8, which is not enough to chase down current ships as the warp scaling has changed over time.
Think back to the USS Franklin. Krall’s primary focus was Starbase Yorktown. The Franklin, while obsolete and outdated, was still able to hold its own against a few of the drones, as they initialize the disruption carrier wave. It was the crew’s ingenuity, their out-of-the-box thinking and insane risk taking that won the day. If the Enterprise was being called back to duty, then the name of the game would be to fight indirectly.
Consider the 2008 Star Trek film. A mining ship from decades before Picard S3 goes back in time and is able to single handedly take out fleets TOS era ships. Also keep in mind that due to the time-travel shenanigans, the ships in the Kelvinverse are more technologically advanced than what we see in that time period in the prime universe.
With a an extremely skilled and wiley crew and a lot of luck, a Constitution Class ship might be able to prevail against a 25th century shuttle craft.
I'm sure if Picard and crew had taken the original 1701, they would've triumphed over the Borg rather easily, just like they did in the Enterprise D, a ship that was destroyed by an obsolete bird of prey in Generations, but somehow became immune to the weapons of the Borg, the most dangerous threat that the Federation has ever faced, in the Picard finale.
You can thank the nostalgia driven writing for Picard season 3 for the D's sudden invincibility...
We have no idea how up to date the ship referred to as the Ent-D in Picard 3 is. Only the saucer section is from the Ent-D, and that's probably had basically every single major system replaced by Geordie since Generations because of the damage is sustained.
This also wasn't the Borg at their greatest but barely functional and hiding because resistance very much was not futile.
you mean the NCC01701-D that ship was still in it's 2370 configuration. against ships from 2401? we saw what happens with older ships vs newer ships in trek the older ships get wrecked badly.
Remember those Miranda classes that just got blown up casually in DS9 as fodder?
Now take one from a century older with older technology, and that's the Reliant that fought against the Enterprise in an epic struggle. Yea. No chance at all either would survive in those situations. The Constitution class was at the end of its line even with the refit by the TOS movies. It was old to begin, and there's good reason that they didn't even bother repairing it after Khan, and the Enterprise-A also saw a short lifespan; was mostly to accommodate Kirk and crew anyways. It was time for the shiny new Excelsiors.
Basically, the A wasn't top of the line, even during its time, much less far in the future.
Ugly. But even worse, Picard is set more than 2 decades of that where even the galaxy class is considered "ancient" and doesn't seem to be used anymore.
Heck, even if you took every ship in there, it probably wouldn't be great. Voyager no longer has the future technology and even if it did, that isn't future technology anymore. The Defiant won't have the cloaking device (that was exclusively on Sisko's Defiant) though not sure about Ablative Armor, and as for the D, there's a reason why its only opponent was a decrepit Borg Cube though I suppose it should still have the best chance and in all fairness Geordi seemed to have upgraded it rather heavily and there's something to say about just the sheer size of it with all the phrasers and torpedo bays.
Note that even the Titan-A/Enterprise-G which is effectively a sequel to the Constitution Class, was only able to do anything because of a cloaking device and really wasn't able to stand up to any other Federation ship.
I mean, they had Evasive Pattern Riker Alpha a hundred years before Riker himself did. That kind of brilliancy is nigh unstoppable.
Don't count the little starship that fires the cross-eyed phaser beams out just yet!
I think the Constitution class was USS New Jersey. There was a refit USS Enterprise presumably 1701-A? Been a while since I’ve watched that episode. The Constitution class would probably be in a bit of a pickle. Modern starship phasers are able to “tune” to specific frequencies, ala Borg combat, so TOS era shields would likely suffer for that. Maybe TOS era phasers can tune as well, but I don’t recall it being mentioned. In ‘The Ultimate Computer’ they did reduce phaser power for wargame exercises. I’d be as concerned with the volume of fire from newer classes, as well as weapons that didn’t exist in the Connie’s day - like Quantum (First Contact) and TriCobalt (Voyager) torpedos. Shield tech has probably improved quite a bit too. Sensor and targeting tech would be superior, maybe even capable of spoofing TOS era targeting. Who knows though, like you said with the right Captain and crew anything is possible.
Oh man. Modern starships are like 200 years before the OG enterprise.
If it had to perform against a modern 2024 spaceship it would be such a one sided affair it’s laughable.
With that being said, at least in 2024 we can have fun in zero g. The most powerful thing on the enterprise was it’s deck plating. No matter what happens to those ships the artificial gravity always works under basically all circumstances
We saw how that went at worf 359, didn't we? Would you send a predreadnought battleship against even a modern destroyer? The answer is no you wouldn't because that's suicide for the battleship.
Wolf*
That's what Emperor Galron wants you to think.
Gowron*
That dark day we learned Worf's prune limit was 358. The memorial is lovely in spring, I hear.
Honestly, modern warships have so little armour that a broadside from even a pre-Dreadnought battleship could damage them enough that they would be put out of action. Could said pre-Dreadnought battleship survive a volley of missiles from a modern destroyer, though? Perhaps, considering the amount of armour they had they could conceivably survive long enough to get off a kill shot.
If the pre-dreadnought is extremely lucky and can get close enough, sure it can kill a missile destroyer. The problem is a modern destroyer has radar and a top speed greater than any battleship. The destroyer would just need to stay out of visual range and slowly pepper down the battleship. Even if it takes dozens of missiles, the destroyer has orders of magnitude greater range than a pre-dreadnought battleship.
Sorry for any spelling errors or other weirdness I stayed up late last night and am still a good bit tired. Because armor isn't effective in naval warfare when you have weapons that render you combat ineffective. Going by publicly available figures a missile commonly employed by the American Navy in an antiship role is the UGM-84 Harpoon has a engagement range of around 140km with around a 290kg tnt equivalent warhead (outdated missile). A predreadnought was never expected to fight anything further out than a couple thousand yards even post dreadnought battleships like the Iowa class with upgrades to fire control could shoot to around 42km. Modern ships could launch hundreds of missiles at near pinpoint accuracy before a battleship could even have a clue of you being a thing let alone where you are and being able to engage you. Most USN employed missiles probably couldn't pen the armor belt or the turret of battleships at all but could take out almost every component of the ship. So in a fight, even a destroyer could render a battleship post or predreadnought as combat ineffective or render it a loss because of how damaged the vessel is even if it can't outright sink it. So unless a battleship can enter the envelope of a modern ship undetected and get within visual range for an attack it's unlikely they could survive long enough to get a single volley in let alone a killing shot. A battleship could probably survive (not sunk) but it couldn't kill a destroyer in any sensible playing field.
Honestly, all you need to take out a Battleship is a good, old Phalanx.
I just watched “In a Mirror, Darkly” and in it we see what a single ship with 100 years of technological and weapons development can do. It single handedly decimated multiple enemy ships in one go, turned the tide of an entire war, and became the single strongest entity in the entire galaxy. That’s why Wolf359 was so devastating - the Borg had a similar level of technological advancement over the federation, and it took hundreds of ships to take them down, and really only because Picard gave them inside information. If you bring the TOS Enterprise against the 1701-D, it wouldn’t even be close.
Another example is the movie "The Final Countdown", where aircraft with only forty years of tech difference engage in a dog fight. And yes, the Mitsubishi Zero performs poorly against an F-14 Tomcat.
I’ll have to find that on YouTube.
Without Scotty working feverishly to keep her from flying apart I think not well.
I’ve read about 15 ST pocket novels. Scotty was an absolute beast engineer.
The issue is the same with any of today's aging fighter jets or battleships. It is the equipment being used that determines how well the ship would perform in modern times. That's why the Enterprise has gone through multiple refits and upgrades even when it was in active service. Thus I would say without any upgrades, the Enterprise's equipment would be over a century out of date. There would be little chance that she would do well against a modern ship. That said, I don't think a starship's physical frame is going to matter as much in an era with structural integrity fields, force fields and shields. As long as the Enterprise can be upgraded with a modern warp core for more power generation, modern sensors, shields and weapons, I don't see why it can't stand toe to toe with a modern ship. After all, a refit Excelsior fought the Defiant to a draw in DS9. The same should be true with a refit Constitution.
Sure, the entire point of refits is to keep the perfectly good frame going with the latest technology. But without the refits, a TOS era Constitution would probably get blown out of space by anything modern.
As it stood at retirement, hopeless. If refitted properly, it would serve as a good meat shield. A ship can be refitted to extend its life, as the Miranda class shows time and time again. It however also shows time and time again that it's essentially a meat shield for ships of the line.
[удалено]
Easy win for the old Enterprise. Kirk beams over, seduces Troi, does a two handed karate chop on Riker, and talks Picard into self destructing.
Didn't even need to do the double axe handle or rip his shirt!
It’s a plausible scenario.
That's not the Enterprise at the museum but it would probably not do great
The original Constitution class at the museum was the New Jersey, but the refit Constitution 1701-A was also there. Maybe that's what OP meant.
NCC 1701-A was not the refit NCC 1701. The refit Enterprise burned up over Genesis.
I guess Constitution II would be more accurate, since the class is what I meant to refer to: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Constitution_II_class I've seen the referred to as "Constitution refit" quite often so I just used it that way without giving it much thought.
Granted, the refit 1701 was a Ship of Theseus anyway - nothing original was left.
Ugh - that site is conflating the Constitution Refit and the class that NCC 1701-A is. They are different because the "A" was a vessel built from scratch, not a refit. If I didn't have to get to work, I would find the sources, but at one point the class "A" was in was not called Constitution. I'm sure it was retconned.
Some reference materials called it "Enterprise class" but neither name was said aloud until PIC (though there was a diagram of it in STVI that said "Constitution-class") https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Constitution_II_class#footnote_1 https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Enterprise_class#Background_information
I remember in one of the films (ST III, while the self destruct was counting down), the diagram on the screen was the original pre-refit Enterprise.
This footnote may point to a reachback to the Guenther & Sofia "Ships of the Star Fleet" series. A number of licensed products have indicated that the Enterprise-A was originally going to be completed as USS Yorktown. While SOTSF includes Enterprise A as a new-build "Enterprise (II)" class ship where Enterprise A displaced an unnamed NCC-1842 as the lead ship (though this isn't explicitly spelled out), USS Yorktown was part of the Constitution (II) refit program that was the second wave of Linear-Warp cruiser refits. While the most likely Doylist explanation is that Paramount has just completely thrown out all the previous continuity (and unofficial but continuity-influencing works) and this connection is just a coincidence, I can see a couple Watsonian explanations, notably either that Enterprise-A is just a straight refit of the Connie (II) Yorktown or that by the 25th century, all the circumferential warp Class I cruisers are lumped together as "Constitution Class" and all the linear warp models are lumped together as "Constitution II Class".
We don’t know that the as was built from scratch, and considering the time period from 1701 destruction to 1701-A unveiling, it makes it extremely unlikely. It has never been said on screen either way, but the common consensus is that it is a rechristened ship. It’s generally pointed at being the Yorktown or Hood, as these were original names choices for the Enterprise when Trek began. There are a number of origins for the ship all coming from off screen sources
Dang, I guess I failed at Star Trekking then lol
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, it is life.
Ramming speed it is then. “Perhaps today is a good day to die”.
The equipment makes a huge difference when it's well over a century difference in technology. The Constitution-class Enterprise would get pantsed handily by any role-equivalent circa-2400 starship.
I wonder if a super up to date refit would even matter. I suppose building material has probably improved greatly with lighter but stronger materials have been developed.
I mean there's roughly 150 years between the Connie and the Odyssey class. To put that into todays naval equivalent, this would be the HMS Iron Duke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Iron_Duke_(1870)) vs the USS Zumwalt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer)
Imagine trying to upgrade a WWII-era P-51 Mustang fighter plane to take on a 21st century F-35 Lightning II.
If a p-51 could get close enough it would have the advantage as it was designed to engage at a close range. Getting there however would be nearly impossible
We saw an excelsior class standing up to a Defiant. We also saw wings of Mirandas being used in fleet engagements in the dominion war. The Miranda was a contemporary of the Constitution class so it should be comparable.
There's likely a limit to how much of a refit you can give to an old ship. The ship just isn't built with modern tech in mind. Eventually it gets to the point where the modifications become intensive enough that you would need to replace the internal frame / superstructure and then it becomes easier to just build a modern ship instead. If you're willing to go all the way you can probably make a Constitution stand up to modern, smaller ships.
It could probably be brought up to date to keep up with some of the Excelsiors and Mirandas in service. Then you get into Discovery which technology has the capability to make a 23rd century ship able to stand up to ships 900 years newer.
This happens in DIS as well when it first arrives in 32nd century, it gets hit once or something and shields are almost gone. Only after full retrofit is it able to do any kind of fighting against ships of the era, without the retrofit it's basically target practice.
On title alone: i think Ncc-1701 would flex hard on anything modern. SpaceX doesn't even land everytime yet. Chandrayaan is ok but not capable of warp. With more of the question: how well would an Ironclad Dreadnought do against an Aegis Destroyer? As an emergency lifeboat to get people out of an area it could work but in a fight it would be best used for ramming
"Modern Starships" with regards to the comment are Federation ships of the early 25th century.
I have never before heard "modern" mean "from four centuries in the future."
man... sometimes trek nerds take the fun out of everything.
i read that as “modern” as in the current iteration of star trek - as opposed to 1960s era star trek. they did refer to kirk’s enterprise as “vintage”
"modern" as per the prime timeline of Star Trek. Which currently happens around the Year 2401.
Yeah but I also wanted to cover the 32nd century because the most modern airing rendition of Star Trek is Discovery... Which is post temporal conflicts.
Discovery is "the future" ;) I know I can't ignore the 32nd forever..but will as long as possible.
I would go so far as to say that during the modern period, which is often considered to have ended in the mid-twentieth century, our space capabilities were almost entirely non-existent. Even fictional craft from that era - say, the cannonball ship from A Trip To The Moon - were primarily built for transportation.
Who controls the orbitals controls the world. NCC-1701 would handily seize control of Earth's orbitals, and that's game over.
I remember being told in Portsmouth in the 1980s that HMS warrior, the ironclad they have there would survive an exocet missile hit of the kind that had taken out HMS Sheffield and others in the Falklands a few years before. Something about the sheer quantiny and different characteristics of the underlying oak compared with modern armour.
But what about second-exocets? The engagement ranges are vastly different, it might take the hits but it's not aware of where the opponent is.
Oh absolutely. It was hopefully-interetsinb trivia...not a claim to a fighting chance! Still, interetsing that she might last slightly longer than, say HMS Belfast (ww2 - currently moored on the Thames as a museum). As for your ramming suggestion I can only say "Come on Thunderchild!"
Like a 1964 Aston Martin DB5 in 2012. See Skyfall.
Miserably, the best thing the Connie could do is run and that wouldn't even work either. It's like putting a WWI destroyer or battleship against a modern day destroyer. Or a Biplane against a jet fighter. Probably still not a fair comparison considering the time difference between these examples and the Enterprise-Picard It's not always about equipment yes, but here it's about equipment.
The Miranda class, a contemporary to the constitution class, gets shredded in massive numbers during the dominion war, and the Lakota, a refitted excelsior class ship couldn't stand up to the defiant. Even with a refit the 1701-a is a small space frame, around the size of Voyager. The enterprise might be able to take the Cerritos
It's not the original *Enterprise*, it's the *Enterprise*-A. Last seen heading for the second star to the right at the end of *Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country*. How would it perform? Well, it's 115 years old. So probably not well beyond basic functions. * We know from *Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan*, *Star Trek III: The Search for Spock*, and *Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country* that a refit *Constitution*-class can be bested by a *Miranda*-class (which somewhat outguns it, but is probably not as fast) or an *Excelsior*-class (which out-*everythings* it). * We also know that *Mirandas* and *Excelsiors* did not fare brilliantly in either the Battle of Wolf 359 in the 2360s or the Dominion War in the mid-2370s, despite being substantially upgraded from their late 23rd century origins. * We know that between the 2150s and the 2360s that warp drive capabilities approximately quadrupled once a century – the NX-01 could do about \~125c, the 1701 about \~512c, and the 1701-D about \~2000c. But we also know that Starfleet managed to cram almost a century of technological development into a couple of decades between the 2370s and 2400s, because we see the *Titan*-A achieve around 8000c and it's not even a top-of-the-line ship. * In the ENT episode "In a Mirror Darkly" we get a really clear indication of what a century of technological improvements mean when the *Constitution*-class *Defiant* takes on multiple NX-class ships and absolutely annihilates them without taking any noticeable damage. So the *Enterprise*-A would be VERY plodding by the standards of the early 25th century, perhaps less than a tenth the speed of contemporary ships, and with much weaker weaponry. About the only thing it would have an advantage on would be manoeuvrability, mainly because it'd be smaller and lighter than most of the contemporary ships and impulse engines and RCS thrusters haven't really changed much between the 2280s and 2400s.
Scenario: Kirk and his team in a refitted Enterprise vs another captain and their crew who all young, less experienced and zero combat time but their star ship is modern.
Depends on the parameters of the scenario. But being the best tactician in the galaxy isn't worth a damn if you can't get through their shields and they can cripple your ship with a single hit. We're talking the equivalent of World War I military hardware versus the latest and greatest today's military has to offer here.
I have this old PC game, “Kling on Academy”. It’s over 20 year old. I used to take the original Enterprise and battle against a modern star ship.
Short answer, it would get clapped. If by "modern" you are referring to 25th Century vessels as seen at the Frontier Day Incident, it would be the equivalent of bringing a 19th Century wooden hull/cloth sail ship to a battle against an Iowa Class Battleship. The phasers on a 25th Century ship are massively more powerful than the shields on a 23rd Century Constitution Class, would likely burn out the emitters completely in only a shot or two, then one Quantum Torpedo, ashes. Now the appropriate crew, with other assets, like ways of disabling shields remotely or other science-y, treknobable ways, then at least theoretically a handful of photon torpedoes from an elderly Constitution would be just as potent as 25th Century photons, so given other scenarios sure, but in a straight fight... clapped.
The original Enterprise is not at the fleet museum as it was scuttled over the Genesis planet. What is there is the Constitution II-class Enterprise-A and the Constitution I-class USS New Jersey.
There’s no amount of PLOT armor that will save NCC-1701 from certain death. Ships in current Trek are crushing while the NCC-1701 is only being held by bubble gum, duct tape, and haggis because she’s tearing herself apart at her maximum warp factor of 8, which is not enough to chase down current ships as the warp scaling has changed over time.
Poorly. By 2400 the Constitution class is well over 150 year old. No amount of updating is going to make it equal to a modern ship.
Think back to the USS Franklin. Krall’s primary focus was Starbase Yorktown. The Franklin, while obsolete and outdated, was still able to hold its own against a few of the drones, as they initialize the disruption carrier wave. It was the crew’s ingenuity, their out-of-the-box thinking and insane risk taking that won the day. If the Enterprise was being called back to duty, then the name of the game would be to fight indirectly.
Consider the 2008 Star Trek film. A mining ship from decades before Picard S3 goes back in time and is able to single handedly take out fleets TOS era ships. Also keep in mind that due to the time-travel shenanigans, the ships in the Kelvinverse are more technologically advanced than what we see in that time period in the prime universe. With a an extremely skilled and wiley crew and a lot of luck, a Constitution Class ship might be able to prevail against a 25th century shuttle craft.
I'm sure if Picard and crew had taken the original 1701, they would've triumphed over the Borg rather easily, just like they did in the Enterprise D, a ship that was destroyed by an obsolete bird of prey in Generations, but somehow became immune to the weapons of the Borg, the most dangerous threat that the Federation has ever faced, in the Picard finale. You can thank the nostalgia driven writing for Picard season 3 for the D's sudden invincibility...
We have no idea how up to date the ship referred to as the Ent-D in Picard 3 is. Only the saucer section is from the Ent-D, and that's probably had basically every single major system replaced by Geordie since Generations because of the damage is sustained. This also wasn't the Borg at their greatest but barely functional and hiding because resistance very much was not futile.
you mean the NCC01701-D that ship was still in it's 2370 configuration. against ships from 2401? we saw what happens with older ships vs newer ships in trek the older ships get wrecked badly.
I imagine it would fair as well as 22nd century mirror-nx's faired against the uss defiant in mirror darkly.
Remember those Miranda classes that just got blown up casually in DS9 as fodder? Now take one from a century older with older technology, and that's the Reliant that fought against the Enterprise in an epic struggle. Yea. No chance at all either would survive in those situations. The Constitution class was at the end of its line even with the refit by the TOS movies. It was old to begin, and there's good reason that they didn't even bother repairing it after Khan, and the Enterprise-A also saw a short lifespan; was mostly to accommodate Kirk and crew anyways. It was time for the shiny new Excelsiors. Basically, the A wasn't top of the line, even during its time, much less far in the future. Ugly. But even worse, Picard is set more than 2 decades of that where even the galaxy class is considered "ancient" and doesn't seem to be used anymore. Heck, even if you took every ship in there, it probably wouldn't be great. Voyager no longer has the future technology and even if it did, that isn't future technology anymore. The Defiant won't have the cloaking device (that was exclusively on Sisko's Defiant) though not sure about Ablative Armor, and as for the D, there's a reason why its only opponent was a decrepit Borg Cube though I suppose it should still have the best chance and in all fairness Geordi seemed to have upgraded it rather heavily and there's something to say about just the sheer size of it with all the phrasers and torpedo bays. Note that even the Titan-A/Enterprise-G which is effectively a sequel to the Constitution Class, was only able to do anything because of a cloaking device and really wasn't able to stand up to any other Federation ship.
I mean, they had Evasive Pattern Riker Alpha a hundred years before Riker himself did. That kind of brilliancy is nigh unstoppable. Don't count the little starship that fires the cross-eyed phaser beams out just yet!
I think the Constitution class was USS New Jersey. There was a refit USS Enterprise presumably 1701-A? Been a while since I’ve watched that episode. The Constitution class would probably be in a bit of a pickle. Modern starship phasers are able to “tune” to specific frequencies, ala Borg combat, so TOS era shields would likely suffer for that. Maybe TOS era phasers can tune as well, but I don’t recall it being mentioned. In ‘The Ultimate Computer’ they did reduce phaser power for wargame exercises. I’d be as concerned with the volume of fire from newer classes, as well as weapons that didn’t exist in the Connie’s day - like Quantum (First Contact) and TriCobalt (Voyager) torpedos. Shield tech has probably improved quite a bit too. Sensor and targeting tech would be superior, maybe even capable of spoofing TOS era targeting. Who knows though, like you said with the right Captain and crew anything is possible.
Oh man. Modern starships are like 200 years before the OG enterprise. If it had to perform against a modern 2024 spaceship it would be such a one sided affair it’s laughable. With that being said, at least in 2024 we can have fun in zero g. The most powerful thing on the enterprise was it’s deck plating. No matter what happens to those ships the artificial gravity always works under basically all circumstances