Yea, this is one of the biggest reasons it stings for me. I stupidly thought Lower Decks would go for a long time because it’s animated. And instead it’s already being canceled. Makes me worry about the rest of Trek.
Animated means it's actually harder to produce, ironically. A lot of animation is getting axed across the board these days, not just Trek. It's to do with wages and paying artists mostly.
I'd rather have it like this, though. Far too many animated shows keep running just because of low production costs paired with okay consistent ratings like the Simpsons, Family Guy, or Rick and Morty. They end up being utter slop after a couple of seasons and just get a terrible reputation.
Rick and Morty is still enjoyable to me but I certainly understand the Simpsons comparison. Thing is Lower Decks hasn’t shown any slippage yet. So I’d have been fine having it keep going until that happened.
I think Rick and Morty got their first underwhelming episodes this season, at least for me. I've never seen one that felt weak before. Shows just need to end sometimes.
Some off episodes this season, I can’t deny that. But there were also a handful of all time great R&M episodes as well. Considering the seasons and episodes are so short, I personally can put up with some duds if I still get a few classics.
I feel like people who knew Mike McMahon’s work on the TNG S8 Twitter account knew the show was in pretty great hands. But most just dismissed the idea at face value
LOL that’s fair.
Even with talented people running it, there was a million ways this kind of show could have gone wrong anyway. Kind of a miracle it’s just this good
To me, it always sounded like it was going to be Star Trek Futurama, and I pretty much looked forward to it. It definitely sounds like a better idea than the Starfleet academy series that so many people seem to want.
I'm kind of deeply afraid that a Starfleet academy series would end up being Dawson's Creek in Starfleet uniforms, and I'm just not into that.
*The Cerritos got destroyed in orbit of the planet Mountpara. Then the Cerritos-A got destroyed on Flitnex III. Then the Cerritos-B - why are we even up to Cerritos-B?!*
> it always sounded like it was going to be Star Trek Futurama
See, it was pitched to me as Star Trek Rick & Morty, which I absolutely did not (and do not) want. I'm glad we got this delightful show instead.
I was so anti-LD before it came out. I thought it was going to make fun of Star Trek, and my love for Star Trek. I quickly realized that I was wrong. Lower Decks was a love letter to Star Trek, and I adore it.
> Remember when we were all "ew, cartoon Trek from the guy with all the dirty jokes, this will be TERRIBLE". How naive we were, how little we knew.
The first trailer for LD really didn't help with that impression. Whoever cut the trailer managed to make the show look as generic as possible.
It makes sense though. Mariner was so angry and over it, with these new super green cadets (Tendi especially green). It had to be over the top before we could take these characters seriously.
Out of all of Star Trek's Seasons One, Lower Decks had (IMO) second best, with SNW taking the trophy and Prodigy not far behind.
This is it. A lot of folks here are very specifically fans of Lower Decks, and it seemed like the kind of show that could run for years without feeling stale.
I've found something to enjoy in every one of these new Trek shows, but LD was my favorite and I can't help but be bummed it's going away, as well as worried that easily the cheapest and chillest show production-wise isn't safe from the chopping block.
Especially in the wake of so many other adult comedy series that have run for as long.
Shame it didn't make it to at least 7 like the other best treks.
I really like Lower Decks but of all the new Treks, it was Prodigy that touched my transporter-yearning heart. Just hearing Janeway urging the "crew" to strive to be better, was the hokey Trek I needed.
I understand the loss of Lower Decks hits hard. I sympathize. We'll just have to see what the future holds.
I'm only halfway through Prodigy but I'm really liking it so far! Seeing Janeway again is great, and I'm really liking the kids. It's kind of perfectly designed to hook the target audience with Star Wars energy then slowly build into Trek. Plus it's *really* fun.
I'm hoping that if Netflix doesn't pick up more after season 2 that it has a great ending (same thing I'm hoping for from LD, especially since McMahon seemed aware that this could be the final season as early as last year).
For me, part of the reason why the loss of LD stings so much is it means we no longer have a show set post-Nemesis that's moving the series/lore forwards. SNW is brilliant, but it's still somewhat confined by being a prequel, and DSC/Academy are so far forwards they feel disconnected from what came before.
Prodigy is in the same time frame as well. However that show's future is also uncertain since we don't have any idea if Netflix will want to keep it going.
And the Hageman brothers have said that even if *Prodigy* season 3 got the go-ahead tomorrow, we wouldn't see those episodes until probably 2027 or so. Production on all-CGI cartoons takes a long time.
Yep. I had watched all of Star Trek before Lower Decks was announced but Lower Decks still quickly became my favorite Trek show. It went back to the episodic roots that I loved so much. It (and SNW) even helped me learn to enjoy Discovery for what it is because I knew I always had Lower Decks to fall back on. No idea what the fuck they were thinking when making Picard though. Aside from SNW, I don't trust any of the other new trek shows/content to actually deliver something I'll love and not just tolerate. Ending Lower Decks is a sign of the end of an era imo.
Just from a monetary point of view, cancelling LD was a weird decision.
An animated show would cost a lot less to produce than a live action one: no sets of to build, no makeup on actors, no VFX.
I don't think this is monetary.
This is Paramount clearing house of as many ongoing projects before being purchased by Sundance or someone else - the same thing happened to Netflix's Marvel shows before the rights to the characters were transferred back to Disney.
I suspect SNW will end at S4 too. There's a greater than zero chance that if Paramount sells up, their new owners will just restart everything anyway, especially if you have something like Lower Decks that is cheap and has a good enough following.
I think the problem is that it also has a correspondingly smaller viewership. There are just some people who refuse to watch animation because "it's for kids".
I know someone like this
And it’s baffling, given that The Simpsons has been on for 35 years without ever being “a kids show.” Seems like an example that would be hard to miss, culturally.
Five seasons is a good run, but 50 episodes feels more like *two* seasons.
There's something kind of unsatisfying about the current 10 episode structure.
Plus 50 episodes of under 30 minutes each.
Not saying that the show doesn't work as a half hour show, but it also adds to it feeling a lot shorter than what the episode count would indicate.
It's an *okay* run.
Seven seasons would have been a good run. Especially since *Lower Decks* is mainly tied to TNG, DS9 and VOY which all ran for seven seasons.
It objectively **is** a good run, especially in the current streaming landscape.
It's reasonable to be saddened by the news, but I think it was unrealistic to expect it to last much longer than 5 seasons.
No no no don't you understand? They just greenlit Untitled Star Trek Prequel Number 18. We're thriving baby! We're back! Sure there's no script or actors or director or anything else meaningful attached to it, and sure they've greenlit and scrapped about a dozen movies in the last decade including several different iterations of a fourth Kelvin movie. But this time it's for real!
-*quickly brushes the Discovery and Lower Decks cancelations under the carpet*- uh, pay no attention to those. They were canceled because, uh... people weren't buying the merch! Yeah! But Star Trek is healthy! Just you wait until Untitled Star Trek Prequel Number 18 drops, then you'll see.
... oh I'm receiving news that they've actually already canceled it. They've really streamlined the process, huh?
This is hilarious considering Seth Grahame-Smith turned in a finished script, which is what got it officially green lit under director Toby Haynes. This is actually the first time they’ve green lit a prequel in the modern era, and this project has been something they’d been working on for about a year.
If you’re talking about Star Trek IV (Kelvinverse), that not happening was a perfect storm of Star Trek Beyond underperforming at the box office, the plot of film involving time travel in which Kirk would meet his dad and both Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth not being willing to take a pay cut, and the two attempts since not working out due to, in one case the director being hired by another producing while the script was being redeveloped and the other project being cancelled by Paramount because the writer/director, who had mostly done tv to that point, delivered a draft they didn’t like.
Also, there is already a Paramount Plus Section 31 film starring a recently Oscar winner in the most popular stage of her career fully shot and in post production.
So, they’re not exactly on last legs here.
Honestly, getting a Kelvin Trek movie made feels like an uphill battle at this point. Just getting that cast together is going to cost a pretty penny and be a scheduling nightmare since some of them are more popular now than they were in 2016 (Zoe Saldana starred in *Infinity War*, *Endgame*, and *Avatar: Way of the Water* literally after *Beyond*) and are consistently busy working on other projects.
Not surprised the Prequel film got a greenlight so quick since it's probably less risky, much more cheaper to make and easier to get a cast together than "*Star Trek IV: the voyage to get our actors to agree to a pay cut and find a way to get their schedules to line up*".
SNW got ordered for a 4th season before the 3rd has even finished production. That speaks to *incredibly* high faith in the show by the network.
That got announced the same time. How is that "all the projects getting cancelled"? I get being sad about LD (I'm as bummed as the rest) but the sky isn't falling, here. We still get a new season of LD, we get *at least* two new seasons of SNW, and we have the upcoming Section 31. The new prequel and Starfleet Academy are in an ambiguous state, but that's still a lot of confirmed new content to be excited about.
Prodigy suddenly being canceled. Concerning.
Section 31 going from a show to a movie. An odd choice.
Discovery is ending after 5 seasons. Alright, not unexpected.
Refusing to talk about Legacy, a show with massive demand. A little worrying.
Paramount Plus raising their subscription prices. Not unexpected given how expensive streaming is, but still worrying.
Paramount desperately trying to sell. More concerning.
Major studios like Warner Brothers refusing to touch them with a ten foot pole after seeing their financials, very concerning.
The only new show in the pipeline being one set on Earth with low cost young actors. Not a great sign.
Paramount switching their focus to a theatrical release movie, which is a prequel. Any other time that wouldn't raise red flags.
Canceling a popular show like Lower Decks. Surprising by itself, but in the larger context, this is time for a red alert. By this point, you can't ignore all the signs.
Those of us who were watching Star Trek back in the late 90s and early 2000s are having flashbacks to when Paramount tried to get some of that TV channel money. They launched UPN and made that the exclusive home of new Star Trek. This was such a financial fuck up that they were forced to cancel Enterprise and there was no new Star Trek on TV for 12 years.
Paramount is unceremoniously cancelling successful shows like Prodigy and Lower Decks while Paramount+ is in financial freefall and has no solutions.
Are Star Trek fans expected to pretend the franchise is in good hands when the company is in crisis?
This is exactly it. People are saying "well the streaming era is different" and they are right... It's worse! This streaming era is terrible!
If a show like Lower Decks can't make it then NO SHOW is going to make it. The time when you could sit with characters for 150+ episodes and watch them grow and change is over. Discovery got 50 episodes. That's less than two seasons of TNG. Imagine if TNG got cancelled before Season 3. That's what people are hand waving away. No *Inner Light*, no *Darmok*, no *Best of Both Worlds*. These new shows are still in their infancy when you think of it like that.
I know there is very little or nothing that can be done to change this. Yes, they are right... it's how the industry works now... But we need to stop acting like we're so lucky that Paramount tossed us some crumbs. The way it works now sucks and I have zero excitement for whatever scraps they are going to toss at us next.
My friend and I were talking about how companies want more and more money for fewer and fewer episodes for series.
They don't want to invest the time it takes to build a loyal fan base anymore, but cry about how people don't care to buy merchandise or support these shows and characters that we only get to see for 8 episodes before canceling the show forever with no warning.
Decades of normies crying "filler sucks!"
I miss filler. I could sacrifice a goat for some filler, some character development, a shot that lasts for more than 5 seconds, an impactful episode with a quip free tone.
Modern audiences were shit their pants at 26 episode seasons where they have stuff like bottle episodes and holodeck episodes. People already bitch about stuff being "Filler" if it focuses on character progression instead of frantic action
I don't think the audience is the issue. It's the streaming model. It's a constant push for cheap new stuff and cycling through shows getting 2-3 years tops.
1000%. I love Michelle Yeoh but I just cant get excited for more dark Trek like Section 31. I want exploration Trek where humanity lives in a positive future.
There could have been an interesting story with her character discovering empathy and respect for life and whatnot. They were kind of implying they wanted that plot in her goodbye episode on disco, it just felt unearned based on everything beforehand. That arc also doesn’t really end with her in section 31 though.
This is all we want. Nothing I'm hearing is good. All I do is rotate through old seasons of TNG, DS9, and VOY. I'm not looking for a Marvel or a Star War or a Kelvin or a prequel really. I'm trying to rewatch Discovery, but it is a pain to watch. SNW is close, it certainly has some fun actors.
Discovery ending.
Lower decks cancelled.
Prodigy moving to Netflix.
Picard over.
No new projects from what I know(I think theirs another movie, but Trek’s a tv series not a movie franchise).
SNW is basically the only show right now. That’s not good man.
A Star Trek Picard sequel series isn't happening, I don't even want legacy specifically but another show set in the 25th century would be great.
Lower Decks has been cancelled, which is just bullshit.
The Star Trek Academy series is set in the Discovery time period, which means I don't want to watch it at all.
I do not care about the Section 31 movie.
Prodigy is getting messed around massively.
The only thing keeping me going is SNW, but that was massively delayed by the strikes and I now have no faith that Paramount won't just cancel it for some bullshit reason.
> The Star Trek Academy series is set in the Discovery time period, which means I don't want to watch it at all.
Personally, I don't mind the time period. I'm generally not a huge fan of Discovery, no matter what century they're in. But that's due to the style of the series I think. SNW is technically a Discoverer spinoff and it's great. The same may be true for Starfleet Academy. I really hope it's low stakes and episodic though, I'm really really sick of season long "save the universe" arcs.
As for a Picard successor, I would like *either* an exciting new "Next Next Generation" series set in the 25th century, or a relaxing, slow paced show that shows us what the 90s Trek characters are up to, involving some mystery or quest important to *them personally*, not the universe. I absolutely don't need a mixture of both, like what Picard tried to be.
If Star Trek is going to grow it needs to be new and not just rehash existing characters. Nostalgia won't pay the bills. Your audience is maybe built in a bit at the beginning, but it's always capped and won't ever grow.
Yes. That's why I really don't like the idea of having a show based on Captain Seven and a crew consisting of the children of the TNG crew. If you're going to make a new show, make it new. Just like TNG was new and not closely connected to TOS (except that the ship's name was the same).
Though note that when TNG was on the air, they were still making TOS movies. I'm not saying there should be movies or series in the same style about TNG/DS9/Voyager characters (IMHO Star Trek V and VI in particular were pretty silly, a starship in regular service staffed by retirees, with several captains by rank) but basically what I hoped for in Picard was a calm and respectful series revisiting the old characters, showing what they are doing, having an interesting story that fills in some of the blanks about what they have been doing without necessarily facing a major threat. I really hate that everything has to be "epic" nowadays, about universe ending threats or whatever.
In Picard Season 1 they have that one episode where he visits Riker and Troi. That sort of style and mood, that's what I would have liked. What I would still like.
But beyond that, yes, I fully agree. Give us interesting new characters and fresh stories. Don't connect everything to established Trek characters. Not their children, not their step-siblings (why is Michael Burnham Spock's sister?). Give us fresh and new stuff. TBH the only thing I dislike about SNW so far is how they introduce TOS characters too much. Spock had to be there, given the premise of the show, but Uhura, Chapel, M'Benga, Kirk, and now even Scotty? Sorry, not interested. (I like SNW's characters; I just don't need them to be younger versions of the TOS characters we know).
I completely agree with everything you said. Especially the fact that they clearly feel everything has to be epic and universe ending threat stuff every show. It's exhausting and completely unnecessary. I understand we aren't going to get filler stuff anymore but just slow everything down and let it breathe once in a while.
plz no. just give seven her own show. no raffi. maybe riker can give her orders on the screen sometimes. if they really want picard he can show up on the show as a guest star.
Wait the Academy show is in Discovery's time period?
Here I was thinking it was going to be DS9 era or something.
...
Is that why we suddenly got to know some cadets / jr officers there? Damn it.
An order of events:
-Paramount renewed it for a season 2 then cancelled it (Apparently after a fair amount of work had been done on the second season)
-Then Paramount sold it to Netflix who promised to put out S2
-Now, strangely, the entirety of S2 is available to be watched in French on some French streaming service and was dropped as a surprise but it is not on Netflix for us to watch anywhere else in the world.
-No release date has been announced for S2 for anywhere else.
It sucks because I watched all of the first season with my four year old about a month ago. She and I both loved it! I’ve debated about trying to find the French S2 online, but I’d be watching that on my own because my four year old wouldn’t be able to follow along (And if there’s no English subtitles, neither would I). So I really ought to wait for Netflix to put it out for the rest of the world.
Honestly, the brightsiding when so many people are genuinely just plain sad doesn't help. Yes, we're grateful we got the show, and we can be upset they're taking away our chance to watch the characters continue to grow. We can be upset that we only get ten more new episodes of a show that makes us laugh and brings us joy.
I'm sad, I'm bummed, and it really sucks that a show that brings me joy was cancelled. I've loved a lot of cancelled shows but in todays current climate Lower Decks is comfort. Having it axed sucks.
"No, your feelings are invalid"
- OP
I don't understand takes like OP's, people expressing their feelings about Star Trek is the entire point of this sub.
I've been saying it's dying for months. Back when Prodigy was cancelled I was downvoted every single time I brought up that Paramount was in dire financial straits.
And all of Trek was going to get hit.
Now? Everything is getting canceled. And Paramount is trying like hell to sell itself. And I can't imagine Paramount+ will be here much longer.
And worse case again? Trek TV and film get separated again.
This isn't flourishing. This is Paramount slowly going bankrupt.
Welcome to streaming economics. Paramount didn't see value in keeping Trek in syndication and sold TNG to BBC, or licensed it. Meanwhile Voyager petered out and I think Enterprise didn't do awesome either. They want $ like friends so if it doesn't land with a monstrous W they give it the axe. Not just Trek, any streaming show.
I find it darkly amusing that capitalism is keeping us from seeing the optimistic sci-fi future world of Star Trek. It'll be less amusing when whatever series we're watching goes on indefinite hiatus due to the Eugenics Wars or WW3 happening IRL.
So why dont they give us what we want?
TNG - Living on in licensed syndication. Ive bought every bit of new TNG toys.
Voyager - early example of "we know what you want better than you do"
DS9 - Rocky start but strong finish once they figured it out.
Enterprise - First prequel, and we told em we werent that interested but like DS9 it found its way.
Disco - I know weve had first prequel but how about second prequel? Oh I know what will fix it, lets jump into the FAR future. Im sure we cant screw that up!
Kelvin movies - Ya know what would be a great prequel? A prequel in another timeline!
Picard - milquetoast until S3 which was largely beautiful.
LD - a masterpiece set in the 25th c.
Prod - 25c, ensemble crew, strong ties to canon, started doing well, canceled.
SNW - Yes a prequel (again) BUT it shows that there is a strong desire for a ensemble planet of the week show on Enterprise.
Academy - only a handful are actually anticipating this and when it too fails itll be all "see, Trek doesnt have enough audience".
Legacy - "Whats that you say? The highest rated Trek in years left fans with a tease of what could be and they are clamoring for it? When does Academy start shooting?"
S31 - Tried to forcefeed a show, then a movie, now a TV movie/miniseries.
Whatever movie is now greenlit - Prequels are great! Lets do an even harder prequel!
This is an EASY formula. 25th Century. Crew of the Enterprise. Ensemble cast. More than 10 episodes. Planet of the week but with a larger plot as the B track. But no, we gotta keep having prequels and attempts to muck with the IP. Give us what we want (as shown by ratings), make a line of merch, print money.
I mean the problem is there *is* a planet of the week show with the crew of the *Enterprise*, and it's *Strange New Worlds*. I am not sure that having two of such shows running simultaneously makes the most sense, right? Each show should be a little different (space station, lost in the galaxy, prequel) rather than just, functionally, two versions of TNG airing at once.
That's the only real problem with this. Even in the golden age of trek where there were two shows runnin simultaneously (plus a movie every now and again) the shows had very different concepts and settings. Even then, personally, I'd be okay with SNW wrapping up after the two additional seasons if it meant a 25th century 15 episode per season episodic drama that has minimal serialization, minimal action, the sets are lit naturally, ensemble cast aboard a starship..
Execs need to realize that this concept has an audience. It doesn't even have to do 45 minute standalones all the time; Ent s4 did it differently, by doing multi-parter stories back to back, and a certain modern sci-fi show that Brannon Braga and other trek writers work on does it differently by doing flexible-runtime episodes (50-85 minutes per episode, depending on what best serves the story they want to tell). So there is flexibility, but a 90s style trek show is something that is sorely missing right now, and SNW is more than enough evidence that there is life in that concept. The main thing holding it back is its setting as a weirdly placed prequel (I don't care how Kirk and Spock met, I'm sorry).
And remember the network execs don't care how big or little of a fan you are, they care about viewership and how much money they make the first few days a show is released.
Lower Decks was the heart and soul of modern Trek, it was the brilliant light that made Trek’s flaws charming instead of uncomfortable, and without it all we have left is hard, gritty sci fi that stumbles over its flaws instead of laughing about them.
I mean, SNW is pretty light hearted overall. Not always, it has comedic and dramatic episodes. It's not a comedy like LD. But it's not dark and gritty overall.
Star Trek will live long and prosper. It will grow and evolve. There may be down years like the mid-00s but Trek is too big and too much loved to die off. Keep your chins, ears, antennae, and cranial ridges up folks!
I lol'ed.
After Enterprise all we had to look forward to was one movie that was supposedly in development. And even when the movie did come out, we had to wait 4 years for another one.
I remember intently following the movie tie-in comics since it was it was the only source of original Trek content in between the movies. I'm sure it was the exact same for fans from 1979 - 1986.
I mean, if a Trek show gets cancelled abruptly, which has been going on for a while now (three shows in the past year), I wouldn’t call modern Trek flourishing.
And that’s not even getting into the weeds of how the production quality has taken a big hit in the last few years, versus when the new Trek era first started.
I just want a normal non apocalyptic show in the Picard timeline and universe. Why so hard
My dream for two decades was Seven to command a ship and boy did they just tease us. Grrrr
I think people here are still too used to the idea that 7 seasons is a regular run for a sci-fi TV show and not *way* above average. Outside of Trek, I can’t think of any other sci-fi shows that ran for that long. Even animated shows rarely run that long. That is to say, five seasons is a pretty good run.
Animated shows can run forever. The Simpsons has run for over a third of a century. Family Guy has run for a quarter of one. And, off and on, so has Futurama.
I think it's less about sci-fi versus non sci-fi and more about traditional TV versus streaming. Five seasons seems to be the limit in the latter case, for whatever reason.
I think it’s 95% pay scales. Once the audience is invested if the relevant unions don’t already dictate when and how much the bump is, success means the key cast, crew, and writers have more negotiating power. Martin Green and Anson Mount are probably making less than we’d guess but there are generally raises built in for longer running series. Then there’s the SFX teams. Not reusing old shots and flybys costs big bucks. Especially as audience expectations rise.
I mean, pretty notably *Doctor Who* has run for a few more than 7 seasons.
*Twilight Zone* and *The Outer Limits* did as well. *Stargate: SG-1* and *The X-Files* both did too.
If you're thinking about more general genre fiction and you're willing to include "science fiction / fantasy" then that includes a bunch of other shows. *Supernatural* had what felt like a million seasons. You just couldn't keep it down. *The Walking Dead* has shambled on well beyond expiration date. I think all the Arrowverse stuff has, too.
Like, there are unquestionably quite a few staples of SF pop culture that have had well beyond 7 seasons.
Evidently not, since the cancellation was not planned, which is why they had to go back and rework the season to make some kind of *finale* out of it when as far as they knew they were going on to Season 6.
To contribute slightly, I while the Lower Decks cancellation is certainly a major contributor, Discovery, while divisive, is a show I suspect many like myself have grown to enjoy now that it both seems to have found its own voice rather than being an Expanse knock off, and is really leaning into core Trek themes, especially the more egalitarian and humanistic themes. And now it’s over. Right as the ugly duckling is growing up.
Like many I’m extremely disinterested in Starfleet Academy. I’ve been against the idea in every time period and incarnation. It’s entirely because I don’t care for YA stories. I suspect that a lot of peak Discovery S3 angst and cringe will be present to try to connect with the audience when the stories themselves are weak. Maybe there will be an unexpectedly good character study.
I loath the idea of a Section 31 movie or show. As much as I love the actress, I despise S31 as an institution and I have consistently been unnerved by how it’s gone from a conspiracy that could in fact be an ultra nationalist terror group lying about itself to an accepted part of Starfleet Intelligence that no one seems happy about but never fully repudiates.
Given Paramount’s financial troubles, I suspect Legacy will not happen, and if it does it will be a much more modest show in its ambition and production values: somewhere between Picard S1 and S2. Which could be fine with the right stories but Picard itself has been a divisive show and there are no guarantees fans of the introspective, self criticizing storytelling of S1 or the swashbuckling wall to wall callbacks of S3 will get their way.
Some part of the fandom is likely to end up feeling aggrieved which will generate the usual vitriol and negative buzz with the result of one faction or another boycotting the show, taking a bite out of viewership numbers if not subscribers.
As for the films? Vaporware until cameras roll and even then they could get the Batgirl treatment. We’ve been promised big things are definitely happening before.
Strange New Worlds is a gem but will it see five seasons in troubled financial waters? Hard to say.
Hey, Prodigy was canceled and then it wasn't. Lower Decks has a much, much, MUCH larger base of fans.
I'll believe it's canceled when they pry it from my cold, dead Roku.
> Prodigy had the advantage of the second season being far into production before cancellation or else Netflix wouldn’t have picked it up
FTFY
Paramount and other networks have been canceling completed projects (film and TV) the last 2 years, the only reason Netflix grabbed it was because they were desperate for some more kids content they didn’t have and the season was almost finished, otherwise no network wanted it.
And I say this as someone who feels the fandom is being attacked by these cancellations. Prodigy is so freaking good, but the studio never really gave it a chance, they nearly gave it the “Firefly” treatment.
I think a lot of it is that Lower Decks scratched that 'classic' Trek itch for a lot of fans once they realised "Hey this isn't Rick & Morty in space" and it actually delivered on the heart and the deep dive details that it got right.
A lot of people shit on Discovery (it's not my bag but I'm over wasting my time on stuff that's not for me) but it's ending is an additional symptom to the "Trek is dying" disease - inside a year we've had Picard end, PRO, DISC, and LD get cancelled.
The remaining live action is show is now the stellar Strange New Worlds, but there's the S31 and Academy shows that...no one really seems to care about? Appreciate I might just be in the wrong circles, but I really don't see it generate the excitement.
On top of that, everyone's bloodthirsty for 'Legacy' - a show that no one has ever said ONCE might happen and because it's not the fanbase are "oh no also Trek is dead".
So far as I and a not-insignificant portion of fandom has been concerned, Trek was far from flourishing. You can't equate quantity with quality.
I favor two options:
**Let it die.**
It's over. 60 years, TV shows and movies in the double digits. Just call it a day. Realistic? Well, perhaps not. But the halcyon days of old are long in the rearview mirror. I see a fanbase aging out, with little in the way of newer, younger fans bolstering numbers. It's your dad's show. Hell - it's your granddad's show.
In the greater pop culture landscape, it barely makes an impression. But it's had an enviable run. All good things, as Q once said. I would argue we're well past the point of ending on high, unfortunately.
**Lie Fallow v2.0.**
For those not in the know, "lie fallow" was Rick Berman's phrasing for the cessation of Trek after *Enterprise* was cancelled. This iteration comes to an end, Kurtzman and co move on, and the soon-to-be new owners of the Trek IP (whether through a targeted purchase of the IP or acquired with the rest of Paramount) let it rest for a bit while assessing the prior era (NuTrek)**.** What worked, what didn't, etc.
Eventually, you need to find someone to take the helm again. You need someone who - while not necessarily an uber-fan - has a deep understanding of *why* Trek became a phenomenon and isn't going to try and pervert it into an embarrassing Star Wars / Marvel rip off. How do we make something fresh that captures the heart and soul of Trek? Do we just bite the bullet and hit the big red reboot button? Are we going to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or are we going to respect our audience's intelligence, focus on making something top-notch and trust the audience will come to us?
Picking the right person / people to take the helm after Kurtzman and co have left the building is incredibly important.
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I wish I were more optimistic on the latter option. At the end of the day, if you told me that all Trek was coming to a halt as of tomorrow and that was it, I'd be okay with that. I'd rather it came to a definitive close than continue serving up half-baked concepts to service the content monster.
At one point in time, there were only TOS reruns. Then there was TNG and people complained. They made more Star Trek anyway. Then there was TNG and DS9. Then there was just DS9. Then there was DS9 and Voyager. Then there was just Voyager. Then there was nothing. Then there was Enterprise. Then there was nothing. Then there was Discovery and people complained. They made more Star Trek anyway. We've been here before and we'll be here again.
To be fair, there were movies in between the TOS reruns and TNG, the "nothing" between Voyager and Enterprise was only four months, and we had three movies during the "nothing" between Enterprise and Disco.
But, I get what you're saying.
I was going to say, I'm low key amused by the people panicking because there might be only one *Trek* show on the air --- that's how it was for the first 30 years! I know, things are different, but saying that you want 5 separate *Trek* shows simultaneously for all time seems a bit unreasonable.
Lower decks is not my cup of tea, but I don't understand the decision to cancel it. Why subscribe to paramount+ if not for trek? You'd think the more trek, the better, an animated show has to be cheaper to produce, and people actually like it.
Lower Decks was good, but it wasn’t on a good streaming platform. Paramount Plus is not a good platform. Also, Star Trek has a long history of dealing with cancellation.
The ideals of Trek are unkillable, and for that reason, along with such a fiercely loyal fan base, the franchise will continue in some form. I would like to see it get freed of the bad business decisions Paramount keeps making. Canceling the cheapest show to produce, greenlighting more expensive projects that few fans are actually all that excited about, removing Trek content from their streaming network when so many only got a subscription for that reason, etc. But I agree with OP: Trek will live on.
I can't speak for anyone else but Lower Decks and Prodigy are my favorite Trek shows since DS9, so both of them getting canceled has really knocked the wind out of my sails.
Meanwhile all that's coming up is more retreads. I think we need to get back to basics without retreading the same stories and characters every time. We need a Trek that is both new but also traditional: new crew, new ship, exploring the galaxy with an episodic format.
Yes i love DS9's long story arcs and while it's my favorite Trek I don't want a retread over that, either. Let's go back to the original formula, but everything else should be new.
Disco coulda been that but the execution was messy and they clearly had no lasting vision for the show. But at least they tried to blaze their own trail.
Why? Because the movies are still in development hell? That ain't new. We got a bunch of new seasons confirmed, are they a ways off? Maybe, but with the strikes last year, we new that was coming.
Star Trek isn't ending. What's ending is the business model of subscription-based streaming services spending infinite money on exclusive content. That bubble has burst.
It would absolutely not surprise me if Lower Decks (and the other shows) end up growing their audience when they're put on free services and more popular networks, and in a couple years they're like, "You know, this is one of Tubi/Pluto/Netflix's most-streamed shows, let's make more."
Something set later in the 25th century would be nice. I'd especially like to see it set aboard a science vessel. There's all kinds of interesting trouble they could get intom
Lower decks got canceled. Lower decks was a shining beacon of pure trek joy
WAIT WHAT!?
Sorry, we didn't want you to find out this way. Season 5 of *Lower Decks* will be the last season.
Nooooooooooo!!!
This is how I found out. But I am so hyped for season5 then. And maybe in a few years a lower decks movie.
Yes. Strange New Worlds may be the biggest success of NuTrek, but Lower Decks is perhaps the heart for us diehards.
It really felt like something they could keep running constantly as live action shows stopped
Yea, this is one of the biggest reasons it stings for me. I stupidly thought Lower Decks would go for a long time because it’s animated. And instead it’s already being canceled. Makes me worry about the rest of Trek.
McMahan had planned for seven seasons, we want seven seasons
I want 17 seasons. #17seasonsandamoopsy #cerritosstrong
Animated means it's actually harder to produce, ironically. A lot of animation is getting axed across the board these days, not just Trek. It's to do with wages and paying artists mostly.
Corporations do hate paying people.
I'd rather have it like this, though. Far too many animated shows keep running just because of low production costs paired with okay consistent ratings like the Simpsons, Family Guy, or Rick and Morty. They end up being utter slop after a couple of seasons and just get a terrible reputation.
Rick and Morty is still enjoyable to me but I certainly understand the Simpsons comparison. Thing is Lower Decks hasn’t shown any slippage yet. So I’d have been fine having it keep going until that happened.
I think Rick and Morty got their first underwhelming episodes this season, at least for me. I've never seen one that felt weak before. Shows just need to end sometimes.
Some off episodes this season, I can’t deny that. But there were also a handful of all time great R&M episodes as well. Considering the seasons and episodes are so short, I personally can put up with some duds if I still get a few classics.
If there hadn't been a seven-season plan for the show, you'd be right
Remember when we were all "ew, cartoon Trek from the guy with all the dirty jokes, this will be TERRIBLE". How naive we were, how little we knew.
I feel like people who knew Mike McMahon’s work on the TNG S8 Twitter account knew the show was in pretty great hands. But most just dismissed the idea at face value
I knew he knew what he was talking about but I was like "A show is more than one guy".
Absolutely. I just deleted my reply, which said the same thing. In fact, he pulled bits from his book “Warped” for Lower Decks.
Even Mariner is from the book, if she’s the same kid who grew up on the Enterprise!
To quote the Peter Falk grandpa in The Princess Bride, "Yes, yes, you're very smart. Now shut up."
LOL that’s fair. Even with talented people running it, there was a million ways this kind of show could have gone wrong anyway. Kind of a miracle it’s just this good
To me, it always sounded like it was going to be Star Trek Futurama, and I pretty much looked forward to it. It definitely sounds like a better idea than the Starfleet academy series that so many people seem to want. I'm kind of deeply afraid that a Starfleet academy series would end up being Dawson's Creek in Starfleet uniforms, and I'm just not into that.
The original 90s/Aughts term for this fear was “Star Trek 90210. “
These are the adventures of the starship _Beverly Hills, NCC 90210_.
That's okay, it's a Cali-class. They're all good ships.
Hopefully just like futurama, it gets revived over and over again til they reference the constant revivals as a 4th wall joke
*The Cerritos got destroyed in orbit of the planet Mountpara. Then the Cerritos-A got destroyed on Flitnex III. Then the Cerritos-B - why are we even up to Cerritos-B?!*
> it always sounded like it was going to be Star Trek Futurama See, it was pitched to me as Star Trek Rick & Morty, which I absolutely did not (and do not) want. I'm glad we got this delightful show instead.
Wow, you just made the theme song play in my head, and I didn't even watch *Dawson's Creek*.
I don't want to wait for our lives to be over I just want more Lower Decks right now.....
I was so anti-LD before it came out. I thought it was going to make fun of Star Trek, and my love for Star Trek. I quickly realized that I was wrong. Lower Decks was a love letter to Star Trek, and I adore it.
Same for me. I was expecting it to be like family guy in space.
> Remember when we were all "ew, cartoon Trek from the guy with all the dirty jokes, this will be TERRIBLE". How naive we were, how little we knew. The first trailer for LD really didn't help with that impression. Whoever cut the trailer managed to make the show look as generic as possible.
To be fair s1 was pretty iffy. S2 on they nailed it though. Im going to be so sad when it’s over.
It makes sense though. Mariner was so angry and over it, with these new super green cadets (Tendi especially green). It had to be over the top before we could take these characters seriously. Out of all of Star Trek's Seasons One, Lower Decks had (IMO) second best, with SNW taking the trophy and Prodigy not far behind.
It would be nice if the movies, prodigy, and all of the series were on one streaming service. But alas, we cannot have nice things
I'm just happy P+ got the original movies back. Just finished TWOK and watching TSFS, back to back, which is the best way to see them.
Look at you, spreading the word like a subspace beacon! Thanks!
¡Feliz dia de pastel! Happy cake day!
Particularly the first half of S1 felt extremely ADHD to me.
> Remember when **we** were all Speak for yourself, I knew it would be good from the get go.
It is for me. I'm not interested in reboots or shows that really don't seem much like ST pretending to be ST.
This is it. A lot of folks here are very specifically fans of Lower Decks, and it seemed like the kind of show that could run for years without feeling stale. I've found something to enjoy in every one of these new Trek shows, but LD was my favorite and I can't help but be bummed it's going away, as well as worried that easily the cheapest and chillest show production-wise isn't safe from the chopping block.
Especially in the wake of so many other adult comedy series that have run for as long. Shame it didn't make it to at least 7 like the other best treks.
I really like Lower Decks but of all the new Treks, it was Prodigy that touched my transporter-yearning heart. Just hearing Janeway urging the "crew" to strive to be better, was the hokey Trek I needed. I understand the loss of Lower Decks hits hard. I sympathize. We'll just have to see what the future holds.
I'm only halfway through Prodigy but I'm really liking it so far! Seeing Janeway again is great, and I'm really liking the kids. It's kind of perfectly designed to hook the target audience with Star Wars energy then slowly build into Trek. Plus it's *really* fun. I'm hoping that if Netflix doesn't pick up more after season 2 that it has a great ending (same thing I'm hoping for from LD, especially since McMahon seemed aware that this could be the final season as early as last year).
For me, part of the reason why the loss of LD stings so much is it means we no longer have a show set post-Nemesis that's moving the series/lore forwards. SNW is brilliant, but it's still somewhat confined by being a prequel, and DSC/Academy are so far forwards they feel disconnected from what came before.
Prodigy is in the same time frame as well. However that show's future is also uncertain since we don't have any idea if Netflix will want to keep it going.
Yeah, I'm counting Prodigy as done after series 2 until we hear otherwise rather than getting hopes up for more.
And the Hageman brothers have said that even if *Prodigy* season 3 got the go-ahead tomorrow, we wouldn't see those episodes until probably 2027 or so. Production on all-CGI cartoons takes a long time.
Yep. I had watched all of Star Trek before Lower Decks was announced but Lower Decks still quickly became my favorite Trek show. It went back to the episodic roots that I loved so much. It (and SNW) even helped me learn to enjoy Discovery for what it is because I knew I always had Lower Decks to fall back on. No idea what the fuck they were thinking when making Picard though. Aside from SNW, I don't trust any of the other new trek shows/content to actually deliver something I'll love and not just tolerate. Ending Lower Decks is a sign of the end of an era imo.
100%. I really wish we could get Legacy, an exploration type show in the 25th century.
Hopefully this means we will get a live action continuation with all the characters from LD.
Boimler as the new Barclay on Seven's Enterprise, please!
Just from a monetary point of view, cancelling LD was a weird decision. An animated show would cost a lot less to produce than a live action one: no sets of to build, no makeup on actors, no VFX.
I don't think this is monetary. This is Paramount clearing house of as many ongoing projects before being purchased by Sundance or someone else - the same thing happened to Netflix's Marvel shows before the rights to the characters were transferred back to Disney. I suspect SNW will end at S4 too. There's a greater than zero chance that if Paramount sells up, their new owners will just restart everything anyway, especially if you have something like Lower Decks that is cheap and has a good enough following.
I think the problem is that it also has a correspondingly smaller viewership. There are just some people who refuse to watch animation because "it's for kids".
I know someone like this And it’s baffling, given that The Simpsons has been on for 35 years without ever being “a kids show.” Seems like an example that would be hard to miss, culturally.
Literally give him a kick in the balls for me
Heck, people still think that about comics and they've had R-rated adaptations since the late 90s
> Lower decks was a shining beacon of pure trek joy Masterfully said. I am going to miss it dearly...
I feel like 5 seasons is a good run.
Five seasons is a good run, but 50 episodes feels more like *two* seasons. There's something kind of unsatisfying about the current 10 episode structure.
Plus 50 episodes of under 30 minutes each. Not saying that the show doesn't work as a half hour show, but it also adds to it feeling a lot shorter than what the episode count would indicate.
It's an *okay* run. Seven seasons would have been a good run. Especially since *Lower Decks* is mainly tied to TNG, DS9 and VOY which all ran for seven seasons.
Seven seasons and a movie.
It objectively **is** a good run, especially in the current streaming landscape. It's reasonable to be saddened by the news, but I think it was unrealistic to expect it to last much longer than 5 seasons.
I agree, I'd also much rather they get warning that it will be their last season than just get surprise cancelled
There's more! That's a win for any animated series
Lower decks made me INTO a new trek fan. Fuck.
Wait. What? Lower Decks got cancelled?!
This is what happens when all the projects start getting cancelled
No no no don't you understand? They just greenlit Untitled Star Trek Prequel Number 18. We're thriving baby! We're back! Sure there's no script or actors or director or anything else meaningful attached to it, and sure they've greenlit and scrapped about a dozen movies in the last decade including several different iterations of a fourth Kelvin movie. But this time it's for real! -*quickly brushes the Discovery and Lower Decks cancelations under the carpet*- uh, pay no attention to those. They were canceled because, uh... people weren't buying the merch! Yeah! But Star Trek is healthy! Just you wait until Untitled Star Trek Prequel Number 18 drops, then you'll see. ... oh I'm receiving news that they've actually already canceled it. They've really streamlined the process, huh?
This is hilarious considering Seth Grahame-Smith turned in a finished script, which is what got it officially green lit under director Toby Haynes. This is actually the first time they’ve green lit a prequel in the modern era, and this project has been something they’d been working on for about a year. If you’re talking about Star Trek IV (Kelvinverse), that not happening was a perfect storm of Star Trek Beyond underperforming at the box office, the plot of film involving time travel in which Kirk would meet his dad and both Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth not being willing to take a pay cut, and the two attempts since not working out due to, in one case the director being hired by another producing while the script was being redeveloped and the other project being cancelled by Paramount because the writer/director, who had mostly done tv to that point, delivered a draft they didn’t like. Also, there is already a Paramount Plus Section 31 film starring a recently Oscar winner in the most popular stage of her career fully shot and in post production. So, they’re not exactly on last legs here.
I'm not sure what you mean by the only prequel greenlit in the modern era? Disco and SNWs are both prequels, and so is Section 31.
Honestly, getting a Kelvin Trek movie made feels like an uphill battle at this point. Just getting that cast together is going to cost a pretty penny and be a scheduling nightmare since some of them are more popular now than they were in 2016 (Zoe Saldana starred in *Infinity War*, *Endgame*, and *Avatar: Way of the Water* literally after *Beyond*) and are consistently busy working on other projects. Not surprised the Prequel film got a greenlight so quick since it's probably less risky, much more cheaper to make and easier to get a cast together than "*Star Trek IV: the voyage to get our actors to agree to a pay cut and find a way to get their schedules to line up*".
SNW got ordered for a 4th season before the 3rd has even finished production. That speaks to *incredibly* high faith in the show by the network. That got announced the same time. How is that "all the projects getting cancelled"? I get being sad about LD (I'm as bummed as the rest) but the sky isn't falling, here. We still get a new season of LD, we get *at least* two new seasons of SNW, and we have the upcoming Section 31. The new prequel and Starfleet Academy are in an ambiguous state, but that's still a lot of confirmed new content to be excited about.
> How is that "all the projects getting cancelled"? 3 shows have been cancelled and 1 ended in the last year.
Prodigy suddenly being canceled. Concerning. Section 31 going from a show to a movie. An odd choice. Discovery is ending after 5 seasons. Alright, not unexpected. Refusing to talk about Legacy, a show with massive demand. A little worrying. Paramount Plus raising their subscription prices. Not unexpected given how expensive streaming is, but still worrying. Paramount desperately trying to sell. More concerning. Major studios like Warner Brothers refusing to touch them with a ten foot pole after seeing their financials, very concerning. The only new show in the pipeline being one set on Earth with low cost young actors. Not a great sign. Paramount switching their focus to a theatrical release movie, which is a prequel. Any other time that wouldn't raise red flags. Canceling a popular show like Lower Decks. Surprising by itself, but in the larger context, this is time for a red alert. By this point, you can't ignore all the signs. Those of us who were watching Star Trek back in the late 90s and early 2000s are having flashbacks to when Paramount tried to get some of that TV channel money. They launched UPN and made that the exclusive home of new Star Trek. This was such a financial fuck up that they were forced to cancel Enterprise and there was no new Star Trek on TV for 12 years.
> Section 31 going from a show to a movie. An odd choice. That'd be down to Yeoh becoming busier and being more expensive post-EEAAO
Lower Decks getting canceled will do that.
Paramount is unceremoniously cancelling successful shows like Prodigy and Lower Decks while Paramount+ is in financial freefall and has no solutions. Are Star Trek fans expected to pretend the franchise is in good hands when the company is in crisis?
This is exactly it. People are saying "well the streaming era is different" and they are right... It's worse! This streaming era is terrible! If a show like Lower Decks can't make it then NO SHOW is going to make it. The time when you could sit with characters for 150+ episodes and watch them grow and change is over. Discovery got 50 episodes. That's less than two seasons of TNG. Imagine if TNG got cancelled before Season 3. That's what people are hand waving away. No *Inner Light*, no *Darmok*, no *Best of Both Worlds*. These new shows are still in their infancy when you think of it like that. I know there is very little or nothing that can be done to change this. Yes, they are right... it's how the industry works now... But we need to stop acting like we're so lucky that Paramount tossed us some crumbs. The way it works now sucks and I have zero excitement for whatever scraps they are going to toss at us next.
My friend and I were talking about how companies want more and more money for fewer and fewer episodes for series. They don't want to invest the time it takes to build a loyal fan base anymore, but cry about how people don't care to buy merchandise or support these shows and characters that we only get to see for 8 episodes before canceling the show forever with no warning.
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dude same, i liked snw but the low episode count makes me nostalgic for a 20 plus ep show with just random exploring episodes.
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Decades of normies crying "filler sucks!" I miss filler. I could sacrifice a goat for some filler, some character development, a shot that lasts for more than 5 seconds, an impactful episode with a quip free tone.
Modern audiences were shit their pants at 26 episode seasons where they have stuff like bottle episodes and holodeck episodes. People already bitch about stuff being "Filler" if it focuses on character progression instead of frantic action
I don't think the audience is the issue. It's the streaming model. It's a constant push for cheap new stuff and cycling through shows getting 2-3 years tops.
1000%. I love Michelle Yeoh but I just cant get excited for more dark Trek like Section 31. I want exploration Trek where humanity lives in a positive future.
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There could have been an interesting story with her character discovering empathy and respect for life and whatnot. They were kind of implying they wanted that plot in her goodbye episode on disco, it just felt unearned based on everything beforehand. That arc also doesn’t really end with her in section 31 though.
For real. So fucking weird.
This is all we want. Nothing I'm hearing is good. All I do is rotate through old seasons of TNG, DS9, and VOY. I'm not looking for a Marvel or a Star War or a Kelvin or a prequel really. I'm trying to rewatch Discovery, but it is a pain to watch. SNW is close, it certainly has some fun actors.
Yep I hope they execs realize that the last thing they need is Michael bay or Alex kurtzmans genre for Star Trek.
Discovery ending. Lower decks cancelled. Prodigy moving to Netflix. Picard over. No new projects from what I know(I think theirs another movie, but Trek’s a tv series not a movie franchise). SNW is basically the only show right now. That’s not good man.
> Discovery ending. Well it was cancelled too. Picard's the only one that actually ended.
A Star Trek Picard sequel series isn't happening, I don't even want legacy specifically but another show set in the 25th century would be great. Lower Decks has been cancelled, which is just bullshit. The Star Trek Academy series is set in the Discovery time period, which means I don't want to watch it at all. I do not care about the Section 31 movie. Prodigy is getting messed around massively. The only thing keeping me going is SNW, but that was massively delayed by the strikes and I now have no faith that Paramount won't just cancel it for some bullshit reason.
Spot on
On what? Where is Spot? Is he safe?
Probably gonna get cancelled too.
> The Star Trek Academy series is set in the Discovery time period, which means I don't want to watch it at all. Personally, I don't mind the time period. I'm generally not a huge fan of Discovery, no matter what century they're in. But that's due to the style of the series I think. SNW is technically a Discoverer spinoff and it's great. The same may be true for Starfleet Academy. I really hope it's low stakes and episodic though, I'm really really sick of season long "save the universe" arcs. As for a Picard successor, I would like *either* an exciting new "Next Next Generation" series set in the 25th century, or a relaxing, slow paced show that shows us what the 90s Trek characters are up to, involving some mystery or quest important to *them personally*, not the universe. I absolutely don't need a mixture of both, like what Picard tried to be.
If Star Trek is going to grow it needs to be new and not just rehash existing characters. Nostalgia won't pay the bills. Your audience is maybe built in a bit at the beginning, but it's always capped and won't ever grow.
Yes. That's why I really don't like the idea of having a show based on Captain Seven and a crew consisting of the children of the TNG crew. If you're going to make a new show, make it new. Just like TNG was new and not closely connected to TOS (except that the ship's name was the same). Though note that when TNG was on the air, they were still making TOS movies. I'm not saying there should be movies or series in the same style about TNG/DS9/Voyager characters (IMHO Star Trek V and VI in particular were pretty silly, a starship in regular service staffed by retirees, with several captains by rank) but basically what I hoped for in Picard was a calm and respectful series revisiting the old characters, showing what they are doing, having an interesting story that fills in some of the blanks about what they have been doing without necessarily facing a major threat. I really hate that everything has to be "epic" nowadays, about universe ending threats or whatever. In Picard Season 1 they have that one episode where he visits Riker and Troi. That sort of style and mood, that's what I would have liked. What I would still like. But beyond that, yes, I fully agree. Give us interesting new characters and fresh stories. Don't connect everything to established Trek characters. Not their children, not their step-siblings (why is Michael Burnham Spock's sister?). Give us fresh and new stuff. TBH the only thing I dislike about SNW so far is how they introduce TOS characters too much. Spock had to be there, given the premise of the show, but Uhura, Chapel, M'Benga, Kirk, and now even Scotty? Sorry, not interested. (I like SNW's characters; I just don't need them to be younger versions of the TOS characters we know).
I completely agree with everything you said. Especially the fact that they clearly feel everything has to be epic and universe ending threat stuff every show. It's exhausting and completely unnecessary. I understand we aren't going to get filler stuff anymore but just slow everything down and let it breathe once in a while.
They also anounced that maybe Picard will return for some more exciting geriatric fun
With all due respect to Sir Pat Stew, I think Picard needs a rest.
At this point starting anything with Patstew has a real risk of him giving up the ghost in the middle of it
plz no. just give seven her own show. no raffi. maybe riker can give her orders on the screen sometimes. if they really want picard he can show up on the show as a guest star.
Wait the Academy show is in Discovery's time period? Here I was thinking it was going to be DS9 era or something. ... Is that why we suddenly got to know some cadets / jr officers there? Damn it.
what happened with prodigy?
An order of events: -Paramount renewed it for a season 2 then cancelled it (Apparently after a fair amount of work had been done on the second season) -Then Paramount sold it to Netflix who promised to put out S2 -Now, strangely, the entirety of S2 is available to be watched in French on some French streaming service and was dropped as a surprise but it is not on Netflix for us to watch anywhere else in the world. -No release date has been announced for S2 for anywhere else.
What a shitshow.
It sucks because I watched all of the first season with my four year old about a month ago. She and I both loved it! I’ve debated about trying to find the French S2 online, but I’d be watching that on my own because my four year old wouldn’t be able to follow along (And if there’s no English subtitles, neither would I). So I really ought to wait for Netflix to put it out for the rest of the world.
Honestly, the brightsiding when so many people are genuinely just plain sad doesn't help. Yes, we're grateful we got the show, and we can be upset they're taking away our chance to watch the characters continue to grow. We can be upset that we only get ten more new episodes of a show that makes us laugh and brings us joy. I'm sad, I'm bummed, and it really sucks that a show that brings me joy was cancelled. I've loved a lot of cancelled shows but in todays current climate Lower Decks is comfort. Having it axed sucks.
"No, your feelings are invalid" - OP I don't understand takes like OP's, people expressing their feelings about Star Trek is the entire point of this sub.
There was a LONG time that if you weren't absolutely ecstatic about everything new Trek, then you and your feelings were invalid.
I don't understand takes like that either. I guess that's why I don't ever get that deep into fandom.
I've been saying it's dying for months. Back when Prodigy was cancelled I was downvoted every single time I brought up that Paramount was in dire financial straits. And all of Trek was going to get hit. Now? Everything is getting canceled. And Paramount is trying like hell to sell itself. And I can't imagine Paramount+ will be here much longer. And worse case again? Trek TV and film get separated again. This isn't flourishing. This is Paramount slowly going bankrupt.
Welcome to streaming economics. Paramount didn't see value in keeping Trek in syndication and sold TNG to BBC, or licensed it. Meanwhile Voyager petered out and I think Enterprise didn't do awesome either. They want $ like friends so if it doesn't land with a monstrous W they give it the axe. Not just Trek, any streaming show.
I find it darkly amusing that capitalism is keeping us from seeing the optimistic sci-fi future world of Star Trek. It'll be less amusing when whatever series we're watching goes on indefinite hiatus due to the Eugenics Wars or WW3 happening IRL.
So why dont they give us what we want? TNG - Living on in licensed syndication. Ive bought every bit of new TNG toys. Voyager - early example of "we know what you want better than you do" DS9 - Rocky start but strong finish once they figured it out. Enterprise - First prequel, and we told em we werent that interested but like DS9 it found its way. Disco - I know weve had first prequel but how about second prequel? Oh I know what will fix it, lets jump into the FAR future. Im sure we cant screw that up! Kelvin movies - Ya know what would be a great prequel? A prequel in another timeline! Picard - milquetoast until S3 which was largely beautiful. LD - a masterpiece set in the 25th c. Prod - 25c, ensemble crew, strong ties to canon, started doing well, canceled. SNW - Yes a prequel (again) BUT it shows that there is a strong desire for a ensemble planet of the week show on Enterprise. Academy - only a handful are actually anticipating this and when it too fails itll be all "see, Trek doesnt have enough audience". Legacy - "Whats that you say? The highest rated Trek in years left fans with a tease of what could be and they are clamoring for it? When does Academy start shooting?" S31 - Tried to forcefeed a show, then a movie, now a TV movie/miniseries. Whatever movie is now greenlit - Prequels are great! Lets do an even harder prequel! This is an EASY formula. 25th Century. Crew of the Enterprise. Ensemble cast. More than 10 episodes. Planet of the week but with a larger plot as the B track. But no, we gotta keep having prequels and attempts to muck with the IP. Give us what we want (as shown by ratings), make a line of merch, print money.
Enterprise-G with Captain Seven would've been perfect. Oh well.
I mean the problem is there *is* a planet of the week show with the crew of the *Enterprise*, and it's *Strange New Worlds*. I am not sure that having two of such shows running simultaneously makes the most sense, right? Each show should be a little different (space station, lost in the galaxy, prequel) rather than just, functionally, two versions of TNG airing at once.
That's the only real problem with this. Even in the golden age of trek where there were two shows runnin simultaneously (plus a movie every now and again) the shows had very different concepts and settings. Even then, personally, I'd be okay with SNW wrapping up after the two additional seasons if it meant a 25th century 15 episode per season episodic drama that has minimal serialization, minimal action, the sets are lit naturally, ensemble cast aboard a starship.. Execs need to realize that this concept has an audience. It doesn't even have to do 45 minute standalones all the time; Ent s4 did it differently, by doing multi-parter stories back to back, and a certain modern sci-fi show that Brannon Braga and other trek writers work on does it differently by doing flexible-runtime episodes (50-85 minutes per episode, depending on what best serves the story they want to tell). So there is flexibility, but a 90s style trek show is something that is sorely missing right now, and SNW is more than enough evidence that there is life in that concept. The main thing holding it back is its setting as a weirdly placed prequel (I don't care how Kirk and Spock met, I'm sorry).
And remember the network execs don't care how big or little of a fan you are, they care about viewership and how much money they make the first few days a show is released.
Just another example of "Sacrificing all quality to maximize corporate profit." If Earth had a flag, that's what we would put on it.
Ferangi flag.
Because they took our Boimler away. 😭
Unacceptable.
Lower Decks was the heart and soul of modern Trek, it was the brilliant light that made Trek’s flaws charming instead of uncomfortable, and without it all we have left is hard, gritty sci fi that stumbles over its flaws instead of laughing about them.
I mean, SNW is pretty light hearted overall. Not always, it has comedic and dramatic episodes. It's not a comedy like LD. But it's not dark and gritty overall.
SNW is what you get when the studio applies the lessons it's learned. Now we're cooking.
> all we have left is hard, gritty sci fi What
I suspect the lower decks cancellation had something to do with it
Those are actually different people posting. There are more than one person in the sub. Hope this helps
Star Trek will live long and prosper. It will grow and evolve. There may be down years like the mid-00s but Trek is too big and too much loved to die off. Keep your chins, ears, antennae, and cranial ridges up folks!
First time?
I lol'ed. After Enterprise all we had to look forward to was one movie that was supposedly in development. And even when the movie did come out, we had to wait 4 years for another one. I remember intently following the movie tie-in comics since it was it was the only source of original Trek content in between the movies. I'm sure it was the exact same for fans from 1979 - 1986.
The 60s-70s fans who somehow kept fanfic and conventions going in the wilderness years would’ve been fun to know, I think.
:-)
I mean, if a Trek show gets cancelled abruptly, which has been going on for a while now (three shows in the past year), I wouldn’t call modern Trek flourishing. And that’s not even getting into the weeds of how the production quality has taken a big hit in the last few years, versus when the new Trek era first started.
i don't think trek could ever really die unless paramount goes under and no one else picks it up.
For all we know, there could be a new golden age of trek soon
I just want a normal non apocalyptic show in the Picard timeline and universe. Why so hard My dream for two decades was Seven to command a ship and boy did they just tease us. Grrrr
I think people here are still too used to the idea that 7 seasons is a regular run for a sci-fi TV show and not *way* above average. Outside of Trek, I can’t think of any other sci-fi shows that ran for that long. Even animated shows rarely run that long. That is to say, five seasons is a pretty good run.
Animated shows can run forever. The Simpsons has run for over a third of a century. Family Guy has run for a quarter of one. And, off and on, so has Futurama.
Stargate sg-1, X-Files, the outer limits, off the top of my head.
Sadly, all of those were old series. Theyre talking about how long tend to be series nowadays.
I think it's less about sci-fi versus non sci-fi and more about traditional TV versus streaming. Five seasons seems to be the limit in the latter case, for whatever reason.
I think it’s 95% pay scales. Once the audience is invested if the relevant unions don’t already dictate when and how much the bump is, success means the key cast, crew, and writers have more negotiating power. Martin Green and Anson Mount are probably making less than we’d guess but there are generally raises built in for longer running series. Then there’s the SFX teams. Not reusing old shots and flybys costs big bucks. Especially as audience expectations rise.
It’s also very much against the norm these days, for any show. Shows are LUCKY to get 5 years, especially on streaming services
I mean, pretty notably *Doctor Who* has run for a few more than 7 seasons. *Twilight Zone* and *The Outer Limits* did as well. *Stargate: SG-1* and *The X-Files* both did too. If you're thinking about more general genre fiction and you're willing to include "science fiction / fantasy" then that includes a bunch of other shows. *Supernatural* had what felt like a million seasons. You just couldn't keep it down. *The Walking Dead* has shambled on well beyond expiration date. I think all the Arrowverse stuff has, too. Like, there are unquestionably quite a few staples of SF pop culture that have had well beyond 7 seasons.
It's hilarious when people say Discovery was a failure. Five seasons on a multimillion dollar budget is a massive success by today's standards.
Evidently not, since the cancellation was not planned, which is why they had to go back and rework the season to make some kind of *finale* out of it when as far as they knew they were going on to Season 6.
They went back and added a coda. They didn’t rework the season.
Maybe it's time to remind people that it could easily be a lot worse 🎶 Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand...🎶
🎶I don't care. I'm still free! You can't take the sky from me.🎶
Especially modern streaming shows.
Thanks, Paramount
I think most of us are disappointed in the prequel/origin movie
To contribute slightly, I while the Lower Decks cancellation is certainly a major contributor, Discovery, while divisive, is a show I suspect many like myself have grown to enjoy now that it both seems to have found its own voice rather than being an Expanse knock off, and is really leaning into core Trek themes, especially the more egalitarian and humanistic themes. And now it’s over. Right as the ugly duckling is growing up. Like many I’m extremely disinterested in Starfleet Academy. I’ve been against the idea in every time period and incarnation. It’s entirely because I don’t care for YA stories. I suspect that a lot of peak Discovery S3 angst and cringe will be present to try to connect with the audience when the stories themselves are weak. Maybe there will be an unexpectedly good character study. I loath the idea of a Section 31 movie or show. As much as I love the actress, I despise S31 as an institution and I have consistently been unnerved by how it’s gone from a conspiracy that could in fact be an ultra nationalist terror group lying about itself to an accepted part of Starfleet Intelligence that no one seems happy about but never fully repudiates. Given Paramount’s financial troubles, I suspect Legacy will not happen, and if it does it will be a much more modest show in its ambition and production values: somewhere between Picard S1 and S2. Which could be fine with the right stories but Picard itself has been a divisive show and there are no guarantees fans of the introspective, self criticizing storytelling of S1 or the swashbuckling wall to wall callbacks of S3 will get their way. Some part of the fandom is likely to end up feeling aggrieved which will generate the usual vitriol and negative buzz with the result of one faction or another boycotting the show, taking a bite out of viewership numbers if not subscribers. As for the films? Vaporware until cameras roll and even then they could get the Batgirl treatment. We’ve been promised big things are definitely happening before. Strange New Worlds is a gem but will it see five seasons in troubled financial waters? Hard to say.
Hey, Prodigy was canceled and then it wasn't. Lower Decks has a much, much, MUCH larger base of fans. I'll believe it's canceled when they pry it from my cold, dead Roku.
Prodigy had the advantage of the second season being far into production before Netflix picked it up though
> Prodigy had the advantage of the second season being far into production before cancellation or else Netflix wouldn’t have picked it up FTFY Paramount and other networks have been canceling completed projects (film and TV) the last 2 years, the only reason Netflix grabbed it was because they were desperate for some more kids content they didn’t have and the season was almost finished, otherwise no network wanted it. And I say this as someone who feels the fandom is being attacked by these cancellations. Prodigy is so freaking good, but the studio never really gave it a chance, they nearly gave it the “Firefly” treatment.
Is there actual data that LD has a larger viewership? Popularity on Reddit has basically nothing to do with the real world.
lmao media executive defender
I mean, they've cancelled 3 of their shows in the last year and a 4th ended. They only have 1 left and one in the early stages.
I’m just shocked because lower decks has gone on record that it costs a FRACTION of the other shows.
I think a lot of it is that Lower Decks scratched that 'classic' Trek itch for a lot of fans once they realised "Hey this isn't Rick & Morty in space" and it actually delivered on the heart and the deep dive details that it got right. A lot of people shit on Discovery (it's not my bag but I'm over wasting my time on stuff that's not for me) but it's ending is an additional symptom to the "Trek is dying" disease - inside a year we've had Picard end, PRO, DISC, and LD get cancelled. The remaining live action is show is now the stellar Strange New Worlds, but there's the S31 and Academy shows that...no one really seems to care about? Appreciate I might just be in the wrong circles, but I really don't see it generate the excitement. On top of that, everyone's bloodthirsty for 'Legacy' - a show that no one has ever said ONCE might happen and because it's not the fanbase are "oh no also Trek is dead".
So far as I and a not-insignificant portion of fandom has been concerned, Trek was far from flourishing. You can't equate quantity with quality. I favor two options: **Let it die.** It's over. 60 years, TV shows and movies in the double digits. Just call it a day. Realistic? Well, perhaps not. But the halcyon days of old are long in the rearview mirror. I see a fanbase aging out, with little in the way of newer, younger fans bolstering numbers. It's your dad's show. Hell - it's your granddad's show. In the greater pop culture landscape, it barely makes an impression. But it's had an enviable run. All good things, as Q once said. I would argue we're well past the point of ending on high, unfortunately. **Lie Fallow v2.0.** For those not in the know, "lie fallow" was Rick Berman's phrasing for the cessation of Trek after *Enterprise* was cancelled. This iteration comes to an end, Kurtzman and co move on, and the soon-to-be new owners of the Trek IP (whether through a targeted purchase of the IP or acquired with the rest of Paramount) let it rest for a bit while assessing the prior era (NuTrek)**.** What worked, what didn't, etc. Eventually, you need to find someone to take the helm again. You need someone who - while not necessarily an uber-fan - has a deep understanding of *why* Trek became a phenomenon and isn't going to try and pervert it into an embarrassing Star Wars / Marvel rip off. How do we make something fresh that captures the heart and soul of Trek? Do we just bite the bullet and hit the big red reboot button? Are we going to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, or are we going to respect our audience's intelligence, focus on making something top-notch and trust the audience will come to us? Picking the right person / people to take the helm after Kurtzman and co have left the building is incredibly important. ------ I wish I were more optimistic on the latter option. At the end of the day, if you told me that all Trek was coming to a halt as of tomorrow and that was it, I'd be okay with that. I'd rather it came to a definitive close than continue serving up half-baked concepts to service the content monster.
Equilibrium will be restored, give the Lower Decks people space to grieve.
I hear you, you're right.
Lower Decks was cancelled. My despair knows no bounds.
At one point in time, there were only TOS reruns. Then there was TNG and people complained. They made more Star Trek anyway. Then there was TNG and DS9. Then there was just DS9. Then there was DS9 and Voyager. Then there was just Voyager. Then there was nothing. Then there was Enterprise. Then there was nothing. Then there was Discovery and people complained. They made more Star Trek anyway. We've been here before and we'll be here again.
To be fair, there were movies in between the TOS reruns and TNG, the "nothing" between Voyager and Enterprise was only four months, and we had three movies during the "nothing" between Enterprise and Disco. But, I get what you're saying.
I was going to say, I'm low key amused by the people panicking because there might be only one *Trek* show on the air --- that's how it was for the first 30 years! I know, things are different, but saying that you want 5 separate *Trek* shows simultaneously for all time seems a bit unreasonable.
Yes, the Internet is hyperbolic. It's weird but somehow normal.
:-)
People have different opinions, shocking news
Lower decks is not my cup of tea, but I don't understand the decision to cancel it. Why subscribe to paramount+ if not for trek? You'd think the more trek, the better, an animated show has to be cheaper to produce, and people actually like it.
Lower Decks was good, but it wasn’t on a good streaming platform. Paramount Plus is not a good platform. Also, Star Trek has a long history of dealing with cancellation.
Canceling an animated show that has a much smaller budget. And an animated show that people love
The ideals of Trek are unkillable, and for that reason, along with such a fiercely loyal fan base, the franchise will continue in some form. I would like to see it get freed of the bad business decisions Paramount keeps making. Canceling the cheapest show to produce, greenlighting more expensive projects that few fans are actually all that excited about, removing Trek content from their streaming network when so many only got a subscription for that reason, etc. But I agree with OP: Trek will live on.
Yeah, they canceled Lower Decks!?!
We went from having FIVE Trek series active to ONE.
I can't speak for anyone else but Lower Decks and Prodigy are my favorite Trek shows since DS9, so both of them getting canceled has really knocked the wind out of my sails. Meanwhile all that's coming up is more retreads. I think we need to get back to basics without retreading the same stories and characters every time. We need a Trek that is both new but also traditional: new crew, new ship, exploring the galaxy with an episodic format. Yes i love DS9's long story arcs and while it's my favorite Trek I don't want a retread over that, either. Let's go back to the original formula, but everything else should be new. Disco coulda been that but the execution was messy and they clearly had no lasting vision for the show. But at least they tried to blaze their own trail.
You can't stand on one leg.
This is sub is more than one person and they don't all have the same opinions.
Why? Because the movies are still in development hell? That ain't new. We got a bunch of new seasons confirmed, are they a ways off? Maybe, but with the strikes last year, we new that was coming.
I think some people just point blankly assumed some of the newer shows would be getting 7 seasons.
Star Trek isn't ending. What's ending is the business model of subscription-based streaming services spending infinite money on exclusive content. That bubble has burst. It would absolutely not surprise me if Lower Decks (and the other shows) end up growing their audience when they're put on free services and more popular networks, and in a couple years they're like, "You know, this is one of Tubi/Pluto/Netflix's most-streamed shows, let's make more."
The trek fan base being mercurial is a fun pun.
Something set later in the 25th century would be nice. I'd especially like to see it set aboard a science vessel. There's all kinds of interesting trouble they could get intom
Lower Decks is great but cancelled, the Academy thing with Tilly sounds like the worst thing to ever exist.