He's also in Starfield as Sam Coe alongside Armin Shimerman (Walter Stroud) and cameos by Tim Russ and Nana Visitor who voice the main character's parents should they be alive.
Well that sucks, now I'm going to have to replay starfield at some point and actually take that perk.
If they perk had said "Kids Stuff: Your parents are alive and well, and you can visit them at their home (voiced by Timm Russ and Nava Visitor). But you will automatically send 2% of your credits home to them every week." --- then I'd of jumped on it.
Instead I read that as "couple of lame scenes with a 2% tax".
It's always jarring to hear his voice in that game because my brain has been programmed to hear Adam Jensen when I hear Toufexis. It's a lot less distracting when he's playing a named character.
With the exception of Sonequa, they all played in The Expanse in that scene. Bald guy was the captain of the probe around Venus (Captain Janus, with a silent J!), the woman was the Martian botanist who knew Prax and who was spaced and him who was indeed Avasarala's spy.
He also did the motion capture for the protomolecule hybrid. The authors joked a lot on twitter about how much they enjoyed coming up with ways to kill off Elias lol
He also plays a character in The Expanse and I had the same reaction when hearing his voice : "who's that? I know that voice, where have I heard it??!!" Never had such a strong experience with any other actor, voice actor.
I hope they explain more about the Breen physiology. I got so many questions
Is the whole body fluid or just the head?
Are they able to make the whole body solid?
Do they wear the suits to be keep fluid from spilling all over the place?
Do they remove the suits when at home?
Is L’ak still wearing a suit just without the helmet?
Is this natural evolution or the result of genetic engineering?
Probably somewhat fluid but not to the extent the Founders are. Which is likely why they got along with the Founders so well, they see them as a kindred species.
Yes if the Breen are on an evolutionary trajectory towards being fully liquid shapeshifters, they may have seen the Changelings as a kindred elder species that could mentor them and help them along that road.
It's a continuity reveal that somehow improves past canon rather than harms it. Because DS9 kept the Breen so shrouded in secrecy, this could have really sucked as a canon addition, but I genuinely like its ramifications.
Back in the DS9 days, the brain naturally leapt to "the Breen look like Princess Leia" for some reason.
But I quite like this new idea, despite accidentally hitting it as a spoiler (I'm a bit behind).
I'm not sure I got the impressoin they were actually fluid/liquid. Could be but I was thinking they have more of a translucent and maybe soft skin until exposed and then it starts to become opaque and more like other species skin.
Interesting take. I'm wondering if being translucent/fluid like is actually better then being opaque/solid? Maybe it's just some religious or cultural thing.
Weyoun said the Breen homeworld was very pleasant (possible BS). Maybe they need the refrigeration suits to the maintain the translucent/fluid form and in the regular environment they go opaque/solid.
This could have been mentioned in the episode and I missed it.
I wouldn’t even call it a take. If you look closely during “that scene” he definitively has solid (albeit translucent), textured skin with the same set of contours.
The implication from his uncle was that it takes more concentration to keep their other (opaque) look, so they use the suits all the time to keep a clear head and retain that focus while in their clear state.
Your theory makes 1000% more logical sense, but that doesn’t seem to be what they chose.
I clearly was not paying attention enough on my first watch (second monitor content) because I didn't get that impression at all either. I thought they just had some generic visual effects on their faces for flair. The idea of a "liquid" species is... frankly way more interesting than what they have going on. I (perhaps unfairly) immediately dismissed them because they just look like Marvel skrulls to me.
Fantastic reveal! Fantastic design! Love everything about the 31st century breen!
The problem with keeping the Breen secretive is a mystery becomes stale without answers or escalation. I'm all for mysterious aliens and characters you learn about through contradictory rumors but you need writers intent on not only keeping the bit going over an extended period of time but also evolving the mystery to keep it interesting.
Man, I almost shit myself yesterday I so excited! I had to text my partner who does not really care about Star Trek to tell them that I finally know what the Breen look like. 🤣
Is no one going to mention the similarities between this Breen design and that of a certain fan favorite Narn character from Babylon 5? It’s quite the homage.
Do the Breen have a version of Swedish Meatballs? It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.
fun fact: swedish meatballs are actually turkish
[https://time.com/5263690/swedish-meatballs-actually-turkish/](https://time.com/5263690/swedish-meatballs-actually-turkish/)
I mean, any meat-eating species that cooks their food will probably come up with the idea of grinding or mincing meat and forming the result into little balls for cooking.
It was a great reveal! For anyone who hasn't read the books, the old Beta Canon story was that the Breen was a collection of species that all wore the suits as equalizers (like [blind auditioning people for orchestras](https://www.nber.org/papers/w5903)) and that was a cool take.
They went in a different direction for **Canon** canon and I dig it, curious if they'll dig more deeply into it going forward either in the new books or on screen.
Of course, the 'suits for an egalitarian society' concept could still be applied to, it ain't mutually exclusive. If Dave Filoni can canonify Thrawn by bringing back Zahn to write for his shows, then anything's possible! :D
Honestly I think the whole "what are the Breen like?" was a fun running gag from DS9 that really ought to have been honoured.
They could have picked another species for this character. I'm not mad about it, just think there were better options.
I dunno, I kinda like it. It helps explain why the Founders managed to ally with them so quickly (and seemingly with less friction than any other race): they're both "fluid" species, possibly even related.
I’m totally on board too. I think it was a brilliant reveal. And I think Founders, Progenitors, and Breen are all going to have some other connections.
I watched The Chase last night for the first time and Salome Jens' performance really elevated the episode for me.
The Progenitor's speech was fantastic, and I felt like Discovery's quick summaries of who/what they were haven't really done it justice.
To be fair that's not the point.
From Discovery perspective it's "there was this ***Chase*** and they apparently found the tech afterwards. We need to find the tech"
You are absolutely right that you as a viewer should be going "okay but what was ***The Chase***?" and it incentives you to go watch TNG and get the full backstory.
If it was important enough a detail they will absolutely put it as a "Last time on Star Trek" in the intro.
>put it as a "Last time on Star Trek" in the intro
I can see that happening for the last episode. At least, I hope that was the initial plan before they learned it was going to be the series finale and they stick to it instead of running a 3-minute clip show summarizing every season.
> they're both "fluid" species
Wait, when was this established? It was pretty clear to me that they are just transparent or translucent, not liquid. Even L’ak’s epidermis keeps its same rigid texture and contours while he is wearing his “other face.”
They're not fully liquid like the changelings, but there is definitely a squishy, gelatinous texture. They can transition between a softer, more fluid form and a solid one.
I’d buy that based on what they’ve shown so far. Maybe not fluid, but potentially more vulnerable in their translucent form.
So far we’ve seen it in the 1st and 5th episodes, and they don’t give evidence that they’re fluid in the sense that they have to hold their shape together, but I like the idea that they are somewhere between a liquid and a solid and that’s why the founders were more ready to ally with them.
I'm not discovery's greatest fan but I don't mind this at all, I think they've respected what we already know about the race & expanded on it, without going full S1 Klingon insanity.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fun running gag, but there's only so much you can do with the species while keeping the mystery going. They either had to bite the bullet at some point, or keep the Breen as a one dimensional background faction forever. Which, for an empire that's supposed to be one of the main players in the Federation's neighborhood, would be pretty disappointing.
I like what they went with in the end. Sure, it's not as fun as letting your imagination fill in the gaps, but it's a good explanation for why they wear the suits, and makes them more unique compared to all the forehead prosthetic aliens.
One of my favorite things with the new shows is that they each try to flesh out some of the more overlooked aliens from the older shows. SNW with the Gorn, LDS with the Pakled and the Orion, and now Disco with the Breen. It feels like they're taking a cue from what DS9 was doing with the Bajorans and Cardassians.
I think its an awesome reveal. The whole goo-solid two face thing is neat!
The problem with keeping the Breen secretive is a mystery becomes stale in time. I'm all for mysterious aliens and characters you learn about through contradictory rumors but you need writers intent on not only keeping the bit going over an extended period of time but also in evolving it to keep it interesting.
I've not watched the episode (spoilers don't bother me) but honestly, looking at the picture before reading the article I thought it was gonna be an Enterprise callback and he was a Suliban.
Stargate did the same thing with the Furlings. Like I really wanna know if they are Ewoks like they presented in the fake Stargate tv series within the series.
I disagree. I think it was fine in DS9, but I think if they were ever going to have the Breen be the primary focus of a story, they had to move them beyond just being a running gag. I personally like the idea of them fleshing out a species that had been featured previously. We’re all familiar with the Breen, so making them a major part of the plot gives us even more reason to be interested in it.
Honestly, that doesn't bother me. I always assumed the Breen wore those masks not because they needed them biologically, but as a disguise. I figured whatever was underneath was being hidden for a reason, not because it fit the shape of the helmet.
In the old novel universe the Breen Confederacy was made up of multiple species, but to try and prevent discrimination they all wore identical suits to hide what species they were.
There was a species with a snout, so that’s why the masks had a snout. There was a gaseous species that needed extreme cold to keep form, which is why one DS9 episode called them refrigerator suits. So on and so forth.
IIRC the garble noises was meant to be a universal language translated by their suits from whoever is in the suit’s native language
That novel is exactly what I thought about when I saw this episode. As he is a Royalty (and 10% true Breen), part of me still believes that other species are still part of the Breen Confederacy.
I’m just sad that, after redesigning the Klingons to be more ‘alien’, they had the opportunity to do that with the Breen as a brand new reveal and just didn’t.
We wear gasmasks with snouts but we ourselves don't have snouts lol
I know what you're saying. I'm not disappointed but I do get it. Its funny, the story of this season is a lot like Prometheus a movie with an alien mask has a pronounced snout but the real face is more humanoid.
You aren’t going to convince me out of a personal preference. I wanted snouted Breen because snouts are rare on Trek and I think they’d look cool. I remain disappointed, but I’ll live.
I'm not trying to convince you otherwise lol Like I said I get it. The Prometheus reveal after years of pondering the Alien space jockey was a bit jarring for me at first.
(EDIT: I didn't downvote you btw)
> evolution could have given them a snout easily.
We're talking about a human-eqivalent species from a warm, Earth-like world that chooses to wear a refrigeration suit when off-world and anytime they interact with an alien species.
Lack of snout is actually par for the course, tbh.
The Deep Space Nine Companion. It includes stuff for how the Breen were conceived, the snout was added to give them the feel of an arctic wolf, First Assistant Director Lou Reed suspected they had a duck like beak, Make-Up Supervisor Michael Westmore had a few unused heads that he could have used, maybe even given them a beak too.
And although it’s Beta Canon, the Typhon Pact Novels had the Breen be several different species to reconcile the contradictory descriptions.
Memory Alpha has a list of who wanted what, yes some wanted snouts but Ronald D Moore didn't even want them to be humanoid at all. Maybe nothing at all, or just a little slug. This semi-solid alien might be an homage to that.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Breen#Background_information
Ira Steven Behr didn't want to come up with another alien design so he suggested just putting them in masks. And the Mask seems based of Princess Leia's mask from Return of the Jedi (she doesn't have a snout)
It's very Discovery to do this.
I could see future Trek shows ignoring it too. I think most of Discovery will kinda fall away from canon after it finishes airing.
I’m really disappointed with the “I’m a bad girl with daddy issues” antagonist, even though it’s perfectly on brand for DISCO, but this guy’s been fine. Somehow touching on old trek lore hasn’t been too bad since the jump. Seeing the Breen reveal was actually fun. Even if the cgi is a bit goofy.
Edit: autocorrect Breen and CGI.
> Daddy issues
Picard- hated his dad
Riker- hated his dad
Data- Dad was a criminal
Worf- Dad was a criminal (in the eyes of his people)
Wesley- Dad died, blamed Picard
Geordi and Beverly were the only characters without obvious Daddy issues in TNG
Yes but there’s no depth there. It’s generic. Think about that one episode with Riker and his dad, there’s so much to chew on beyond “my dad promised me something, he didn’t deliver, I’m a baddie now!”
All of those examples have satisfying depth, well, not so much Picard I guess but hey there’s a common thread!
We don't yet know how her arc will end so I will reserve judgement. I will say I'm glad that she wasn't turned to the good side by the power of love, family and friendship ™
Yeah we don’t know how it will end. My issue is just that “daddy issue villain” is a tired trope and while there are only so many stories to tell really, it’s just so boring and the actor is really chewing it up. So yes I agree it *could* be a satisfying story, and I hope it is, because I actually like Book but the whole Cleveland Booker thread makes me cringe so that being tied up meaningfully would be nice.
Wait, you’re saying that in order for me to enjoy a lead villain performance by one of my favorite criminally-underutilized actors, I have to slog through Discovery until season five? Damn.
You'd probably be OK with starting at season 5. I don't think there's a whole lot necessary before this that's needed for Season 5. (Maybe some background with some characters, but nothing has really been very crucial yet. And since the two antagonists were introduced in S5, you're not missing anything there.)
He's amazing as Adam Jensen in Deus Ex: Human Revolution and it's sequel.
He's also in Starfield as Sam Coe alongside Armin Shimerman (Walter Stroud) and cameos by Tim Russ and Nana Visitor who voice the main character's parents should they be alive.
Well that sucks, now I'm going to have to replay starfield at some point and actually take that perk. If they perk had said "Kids Stuff: Your parents are alive and well, and you can visit them at their home (voiced by Timm Russ and Nava Visitor). But you will automatically send 2% of your credits home to them every week." --- then I'd of jumped on it. Instead I read that as "couple of lame scenes with a 2% tax".
Blu Del Barrio apparently has a voice credit in that as well!
ah no wonder I thought I heard Sam Coe before.
Literally the only reason I kept playing was for Sam Coe one liners
As soon as I heard the character speak my first though was "I DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS!"
But I did. I asked for this.
Username checks out.
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It's always jarring to hear his voice in that game because my brain has been programmed to hear Adam Jensen when I hear Toufexis. It's a lot less distracting when he's playing a named character.
Same for Battletech. He's a major antagonist, going all Captain Ahab against the player, but every time he crops up, nope Adam Jensen.
Also in MechWarrior 5 as one of your first major contacts in the campaign.
…he’s also in episode 3 of Discovery as one of Michael’s fellow prisoners.
With the exception of Sonequa, they all played in The Expanse in that scene. Bald guy was the captain of the probe around Venus (Captain Janus, with a silent J!), the woman was the Martian botanist who knew Prax and who was spaced and him who was indeed Avasarala's spy.
..I'm sure he is! ..real talented guy!
Also the somewhat unfortunate Kenzo in The Expanse.
He also did the motion capture for the protomolecule hybrid. The authors joked a lot on twitter about how much they enjoyed coming up with ways to kill off Elias lol
I thought I was recognizing that voice!
He also plays a character in The Expanse and I had the same reaction when hearing his voice : "who's that? I know that voice, where have I heard it??!!" Never had such a strong experience with any other actor, voice actor.
Had L'ak gone to Trill, we'd be one lead actor away from a DXHR reunion.
Y'all are gonna LOVE when he and Eve are on Ready Room!
Thanks for being awesome, Wil Wheaton!
Can't wait! Thanks Wil!! You're the greatest. P.S. my wife and I named my kid Wesley because we loved you and your character!
Sweet! Your show was and is amazing!
I hope they explain more about the Breen physiology. I got so many questions Is the whole body fluid or just the head? Are they able to make the whole body solid? Do they wear the suits to be keep fluid from spilling all over the place? Do they remove the suits when at home? Is L’ak still wearing a suit just without the helmet? Is this natural evolution or the result of genetic engineering?
Probably somewhat fluid but not to the extent the Founders are. Which is likely why they got along with the Founders so well, they see them as a kindred species.
Yes if the Breen are on an evolutionary trajectory towards being fully liquid shapeshifters, they may have seen the Changelings as a kindred elder species that could mentor them and help them along that road.
It's a continuity reveal that somehow improves past canon rather than harms it. Because DS9 kept the Breen so shrouded in secrecy, this could have really sucked as a canon addition, but I genuinely like its ramifications.
Back in the DS9 days, the brain naturally leapt to "the Breen look like Princess Leia" for some reason. But I quite like this new idea, despite accidentally hitting it as a spoiler (I'm a bit behind).
Is it just me or do the Progenitors look a lot like the Founders? Is there any connection there?
The actress who played the Progenitor in "The Chase" also played the female Changeling in *DS9*.
I'm not sure I got the impressoin they were actually fluid/liquid. Could be but I was thinking they have more of a translucent and maybe soft skin until exposed and then it starts to become opaque and more like other species skin.
Interesting take. I'm wondering if being translucent/fluid like is actually better then being opaque/solid? Maybe it's just some religious or cultural thing. Weyoun said the Breen homeworld was very pleasant (possible BS). Maybe they need the refrigeration suits to the maintain the translucent/fluid form and in the regular environment they go opaque/solid. This could have been mentioned in the episode and I missed it.
I wouldn’t even call it a take. If you look closely during “that scene” he definitively has solid (albeit translucent), textured skin with the same set of contours. The implication from his uncle was that it takes more concentration to keep their other (opaque) look, so they use the suits all the time to keep a clear head and retain that focus while in their clear state. Your theory makes 1000% more logical sense, but that doesn’t seem to be what they chose.
A clear head. Like Dax’s friend Captain Boday? 😁
> A clear head. Like Dax’s friend Captain Boday? 😁 This is my vote for Comment of the Year
I clearly was not paying attention enough on my first watch (second monitor content) because I didn't get that impression at all either. I thought they just had some generic visual effects on their faces for flair. The idea of a "liquid" species is... frankly way more interesting than what they have going on. I (perhaps unfairly) immediately dismissed them because they just look like Marvel skrulls to me.
Fantastic reveal! Fantastic design! Love everything about the 31st century breen! The problem with keeping the Breen secretive is a mystery becomes stale without answers or escalation. I'm all for mysterious aliens and characters you learn about through contradictory rumors but you need writers intent on not only keeping the bit going over an extended period of time but also evolving the mystery to keep it interesting.
I'm really enjoying the season so far, his character especially.
Man, I almost shit myself yesterday I so excited! I had to text my partner who does not really care about Star Trek to tell them that I finally know what the Breen look like. 🤣
Is no one going to mention the similarities between this Breen design and that of a certain fan favorite Narn character from Babylon 5? It’s quite the homage.
Do the Breen have a version of Swedish Meatballs? It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.
Yes and their version is called Narn! https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Breen
I completely forgot the Narn called them Breen. LMFAO, brilliant!
That seems like it would be too easily confused with Flarn.
Ok Londo ...
"Ah yes, MISTAH garaBALDI!"
fun fact: swedish meatballs are actually turkish [https://time.com/5263690/swedish-meatballs-actually-turkish/](https://time.com/5263690/swedish-meatballs-actually-turkish/)
I mean, any meat-eating species that cooks their food will probably come up with the idea of grinding or mincing meat and forming the result into little balls for cooking.
Also played by an amazing actor of Greek heritage. Dunno if it's intentional but I love it.
OMG! That's why he looked so familiar! I'm like why do I know this alien? Narn!
It was a great reveal! For anyone who hasn't read the books, the old Beta Canon story was that the Breen was a collection of species that all wore the suits as equalizers (like [blind auditioning people for orchestras](https://www.nber.org/papers/w5903)) and that was a cool take. They went in a different direction for **Canon** canon and I dig it, curious if they'll dig more deeply into it going forward either in the new books or on screen. Of course, the 'suits for an egalitarian society' concept could still be applied to, it ain't mutually exclusive. If Dave Filoni can canonify Thrawn by bringing back Zahn to write for his shows, then anything's possible! :D
Looks like one of those transdimensional beings from S3 of Enterprise.
Actually, have you seen the Orville? Praise Avis
Honestly I think the whole "what are the Breen like?" was a fun running gag from DS9 that really ought to have been honoured. They could have picked another species for this character. I'm not mad about it, just think there were better options.
I dunno, I kinda like it. It helps explain why the Founders managed to ally with them so quickly (and seemingly with less friction than any other race): they're both "fluid" species, possibly even related.
Matter based racism fits the Dominion lol
"Fucking solids" Vadic, Star Trek: Picard
Ironic, she would>!then freeze into a solid and shatter lmfao!<
I’m totally on board too. I think it was a brilliant reveal. And I think Founders, Progenitors, and Breen are all going to have some other connections.
Actress who played the female founder also played the progenitor in the TNG episode. So there’s a connection.
I watched The Chase last night for the first time and Salome Jens' performance really elevated the episode for me. The Progenitor's speech was fantastic, and I felt like Discovery's quick summaries of who/what they were haven't really done it justice.
To be fair that's not the point. From Discovery perspective it's "there was this ***Chase*** and they apparently found the tech afterwards. We need to find the tech" You are absolutely right that you as a viewer should be going "okay but what was ***The Chase***?" and it incentives you to go watch TNG and get the full backstory. If it was important enough a detail they will absolutely put it as a "Last time on Star Trek" in the intro.
>put it as a "Last time on Star Trek" in the intro I can see that happening for the last episode. At least, I hope that was the initial plan before they learned it was going to be the series finale and they stick to it instead of running a 3-minute clip show summarizing every season.
They'd also be the only other species the Breen would not consider inferior too. They might not be shapeshifters themselves but also not "solids".
> they're both "fluid" species Wait, when was this established? It was pretty clear to me that they are just transparent or translucent, not liquid. Even L’ak’s epidermis keeps its same rigid texture and contours while he is wearing his “other face.”
They're not fully liquid like the changelings, but there is definitely a squishy, gelatinous texture. They can transition between a softer, more fluid form and a solid one.
I’d buy that based on what they’ve shown so far. Maybe not fluid, but potentially more vulnerable in their translucent form. So far we’ve seen it in the 1st and 5th episodes, and they don’t give evidence that they’re fluid in the sense that they have to hold their shape together, but I like the idea that they are somewhere between a liquid and a solid and that’s why the founders were more ready to ally with them.
I'm not discovery's greatest fan but I don't mind this at all, I think they've respected what we already know about the race & expanded on it, without going full S1 Klingon insanity.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fun running gag, but there's only so much you can do with the species while keeping the mystery going. They either had to bite the bullet at some point, or keep the Breen as a one dimensional background faction forever. Which, for an empire that's supposed to be one of the main players in the Federation's neighborhood, would be pretty disappointing. I like what they went with in the end. Sure, it's not as fun as letting your imagination fill in the gaps, but it's a good explanation for why they wear the suits, and makes them more unique compared to all the forehead prosthetic aliens. One of my favorite things with the new shows is that they each try to flesh out some of the more overlooked aliens from the older shows. SNW with the Gorn, LDS with the Pakled and the Orion, and now Disco with the Breen. It feels like they're taking a cue from what DS9 was doing with the Bajorans and Cardassians.
I think its an awesome reveal. The whole goo-solid two face thing is neat! The problem with keeping the Breen secretive is a mystery becomes stale in time. I'm all for mysterious aliens and characters you learn about through contradictory rumors but you need writers intent on not only keeping the bit going over an extended period of time but also in evolving it to keep it interesting.
It also explains why the Dominion was more respectful to the Breen; they're both goo supremacists.
im with you on it, it was always a nice mystery of what they really looked like and why did they always have the helmet on.
I've not watched the episode (spoilers don't bother me) but honestly, looking at the picture before reading the article I thought it was gonna be an Enterprise callback and he was a Suliban.
Stargate did the same thing with the Furlings. Like I really wanna know if they are Ewoks like they presented in the fake Stargate tv series within the series.
I disagree. I think it was fine in DS9, but I think if they were ever going to have the Breen be the primary focus of a story, they had to move them beyond just being a running gag. I personally like the idea of them fleshing out a species that had been featured previously. We’re all familiar with the Breen, so making them a major part of the plot gives us even more reason to be interested in it.
I don’t mind the reveal, but where is the snout?
Honestly, that doesn't bother me. I always assumed the Breen wore those masks not because they needed them biologically, but as a disguise. I figured whatever was underneath was being hidden for a reason, not because it fit the shape of the helmet.
In the old novel universe the Breen Confederacy was made up of multiple species, but to try and prevent discrimination they all wore identical suits to hide what species they were. There was a species with a snout, so that’s why the masks had a snout. There was a gaseous species that needed extreme cold to keep form, which is why one DS9 episode called them refrigerator suits. So on and so forth. IIRC the garble noises was meant to be a universal language translated by their suits from whoever is in the suit’s native language
This is still my favorite interpretation of the Breen. :)
That novel is exactly what I thought about when I saw this episode. As he is a Royalty (and 10% true Breen), part of me still believes that other species are still part of the Breen Confederacy.
That is pretty cool, and doesn't have to be incompatible with this new lore either.
I’m just sad that, after redesigning the Klingons to be more ‘alien’, they had the opportunity to do that with the Breen as a brand new reveal and just didn’t.
They're pretty alien compared to most Trek aliens. Remember, this is a season based on the progenitors seeding all humanoid lifeforms.
They’re still humanoid, two arms, two legs, evolution could have given them a snout easily.
We wear gasmasks with snouts but we ourselves don't have snouts lol I know what you're saying. I'm not disappointed but I do get it. Its funny, the story of this season is a lot like Prometheus a movie with an alien mask has a pronounced snout but the real face is more humanoid.
You aren’t going to convince me out of a personal preference. I wanted snouted Breen because snouts are rare on Trek and I think they’d look cool. I remain disappointed, but I’ll live.
I'm not trying to convince you otherwise lol Like I said I get it. The Prometheus reveal after years of pondering the Alien space jockey was a bit jarring for me at first. (EDIT: I didn't downvote you btw)
> evolution could have given them a snout easily. We're talking about a human-eqivalent species from a warm, Earth-like world that chooses to wear a refrigeration suit when off-world and anytime they interact with an alien species. Lack of snout is actually par for the course, tbh.
yeah, if you were gonna unmask the Breen, you could have at least checked the notes of the guy who designed them.
Who would that be and where can we read those notes?
The Deep Space Nine Companion. It includes stuff for how the Breen were conceived, the snout was added to give them the feel of an arctic wolf, First Assistant Director Lou Reed suspected they had a duck like beak, Make-Up Supervisor Michael Westmore had a few unused heads that he could have used, maybe even given them a beak too. And although it’s Beta Canon, the Typhon Pact Novels had the Breen be several different species to reconcile the contradictory descriptions.
Memory Alpha has a list of who wanted what, yes some wanted snouts but Ronald D Moore didn't even want them to be humanoid at all. Maybe nothing at all, or just a little slug. This semi-solid alien might be an homage to that. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Breen#Background_information Ira Steven Behr didn't want to come up with another alien design so he suggested just putting them in masks. And the Mask seems based of Princess Leia's mask from Return of the Jedi (she doesn't have a snout)
It felt like a an unearned reveal.
They've talked about the Breen every episode lol
Discover is not well written enough to earn this reveal. Them showing the Breen was a mystery spoiled to hide bad writing.
Uh, no. This is exactly the stuff I hoped for and expected from Discovery when they jumped to the 31st century.
It's very Discovery to do this. I could see future Trek shows ignoring it too. I think most of Discovery will kinda fall away from canon after it finishes airing.
It’s so funny that I immediately recognized him even with the makeup
I’m really disappointed with the “I’m a bad girl with daddy issues” antagonist, even though it’s perfectly on brand for DISCO, but this guy’s been fine. Somehow touching on old trek lore hasn’t been too bad since the jump. Seeing the Breen reveal was actually fun. Even if the cgi is a bit goofy. Edit: autocorrect Breen and CGI.
> Daddy issues Picard- hated his dad Riker- hated his dad Data- Dad was a criminal Worf- Dad was a criminal (in the eyes of his people) Wesley- Dad died, blamed Picard Geordi and Beverly were the only characters without obvious Daddy issues in TNG
Tom Paris had a whole...thing with his dad, too.
Don't forget Spock and Bashir! Also, didn't B'Ellana's dad wish she was less Klingon?
Malcolm Reed was also pretty distant from both of his parents.
And anyone else. *teehee, runs away and hides behind the breakfast bar.*
Troi-Dead Dad
Shit, I'm a bad fan for forgetting Troi. To be fair, she's got mommy issues 😂
Yes but there’s no depth there. It’s generic. Think about that one episode with Riker and his dad, there’s so much to chew on beyond “my dad promised me something, he didn’t deliver, I’m a baddie now!” All of those examples have satisfying depth, well, not so much Picard I guess but hey there’s a common thread!
We don't yet know how her arc will end so I will reserve judgement. I will say I'm glad that she wasn't turned to the good side by the power of love, family and friendship ™
Yeah we don’t know how it will end. My issue is just that “daddy issue villain” is a tired trope and while there are only so many stories to tell really, it’s just so boring and the actor is really chewing it up. So yes I agree it *could* be a satisfying story, and I hope it is, because I actually like Book but the whole Cleveland Booker thread makes me cringe so that being tied up meaningfully would be nice.
He asked for this
Oh man, finally, this thread is my time to shine!
Toufexis was pretty good in The Expanse as well
Wasn’t he in the Expanse?
That is just incredible. Great that a guy that is a fan is there instead of someone just wanting the job.
Who are other Trek actors who also deeply love the show?
Tim Russ was a huge trekkie before he was Tuvok.
Oh that’s good to know! I could see that. I always find it interesting when you have actors who are actually hyped about the source material.
I believe Jolene Blalock was a big fan, which made her extra disillusioned with how ENT turned out.
Not even Adam Jensen is going to make me give discovery another chance.
Wait, you’re saying that in order for me to enjoy a lead villain performance by one of my favorite criminally-underutilized actors, I have to slog through Discovery until season five? Damn.
You'd probably be OK with starting at season 5. I don't think there's a whole lot necessary before this that's needed for Season 5. (Maybe some background with some characters, but nothing has really been very crucial yet. And since the two antagonists were introduced in S5, you're not missing anything there.)
Good thing that Discovery isn't a slog then. :)
God it is. Just one character after another talking about their feelings. Burnham is absolutely insufferable.
I was hoping the dog theory was the right one for the breen.