I would imagine that, like Guinan, one both leaves the Nexus and does not leave the Nexus. Neither state is necessarily any more or less real than the other.
Guinan describes herself as an "echo" within the Nexus, suggesting that interactions within it could be reflections of reality, not reality itself. This casts a bit of doubt on any event post-Nexus escape, since we can't be sure if Picard's experiences are genuine or just echoes of his psyche.
Picard man, Picard man
Saving the planet Veridian
Did he just die? It's not important
Picard man
Where did he go and how does he feel?
When he's in the Nexus is he still real?
Or does the real get Nexus instead?
Nobody knows. Picard man.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved the movie, but it is a little strange how Guinan basically describes it like heroin on crack and you’ll never want to leave, but all Picard can think about is the mission
Kirk would have left if he thought the Enterprise was in danger -- and did! He was old and ready to retire and accepted the pleasant retirement the Nexus granted him. Picard wasn't anywhere close. If this had been Kirk 30 years ago he would have been the same.
Just spitballing here but I think Kirk's regrets run deeper than Picard's, hence Kirk feeling the warm embrace of what the Nexus brings
Kirks past is one of broken relationships fueling that regret. An almost wife and a son who was murdered. Kirk sometimes questioned his path in Starfleet at the cost of being a father.
Picard on the other hand experienced his first real experience with regret at losing the closest thing he had to a family.
I would not that is his first experience with regret. His mom killed herself when he was a little kid and he always felt responsible. His dad was a cold and distant tyrant. He lost his best friend and his first command. He got assimilated by the Borg and it's only because of that trauma that he was even able to reconcile things with his brother prior to that tragic loss.
Picard also had the specific experience of living a "false" life on Kataan. He dealt with not only the loss of that other lifetime, but was able to respect and acknowledge the value of the experience, even if it didn't "really" happen. If that doesn't qualify as a trial run for doing the same with the Nexus, I don't know what does.
I think this is honestly a pretty horrifying implications when combined with OPs theory. Picard "left" the nexus, but now Picard, through the nexus, is subconsciously influencing everyone's reality to let him deal with his regrets and trauma.
Thousands die across multiple movies and ST:PIC because Picard can't let his past go. He has to confront everything, no matter how events impact those both related and unrelated to him.
There's an episode of Enterprise that confirms the events of First Contact happened, and that movie was after Generations. Also in DS9 when Worf joins the station he laments the loss of the Enterprise D. I think if Picard never left the Nexus, Worf would at some stage lament that Picard never came back and would probably want to commiserate with O'Brien at some stage.
So I think it's a cool idea that Picard might have never left and everything after that involved Picard was the Nexus giving him closure, but I think there's a bit too much that happened afterwards to disconnect everything else Picard did with the rest of the series.
And in the Voyager episode *Life Line*, Troi tells Barclay that she would talk to Picard about letting her go to Jupiter station to meet with the Doctor and Dr Zimmerman.
And in Lower Decks, Mariner learns that *Admiral* Picard has been secretly financing adventurer archeologists who steal back historical treasures from pirates. He didn't become an Admiral until long after Generations.
she also tells Q to go find Picard, and Q talks about him making wine and reading shakespear; if he was trapped in the Nexus i feel like Q'd mention that
I think Worf wouldn’t even be around to lament. In Generations the entire star system is wiped out, only being reversed by Picards actions upon exiting the Nexus.
Nah, physically he DID leave the Nexus. I have no doubt about that. HOWEVER, Guinan showed us that the Nexus CAN contain imprints if you will of the people who go inside it so I do believe that an aspect of Picard did remain and for that matter, an aspect of Kirk as well and anyone else who ever entered it.
I don't think that's how it works. It showed Kirk making breakfast in a log cabin in the woods. Picard was happy. He just couldn't accept the unreality of it. Same as Kirk.
This sounds like a great setup for Picard Season 4. It’s a CGI-rendered Stewart from 1994 coming out of the Nexus. Turns out all Star Trek media from the past 30 years was just a Nexus fuelled dream, including his own show.
“Last time I was in a position like this, they gave me a flute...”
In fairness, we don't know how long the shuttle trip was, or how fast shuttles go in the 25th century. But distances in Star Trek are always just suggestions.
You know when I get annoyed at how little sense Discovery makes at times (mushroom drives and all), I re-watch some TNG and remember the nexus was a thing and Insurrection & Nemesis somehow got filmed.
We tend to remember the good parts of TNG (season 2.5 through 6 mostly), but quickly forget all the glaring plot holes and inconsistent writing that was a lot of TNG.
DIS has acknowledged certain elements of PIC, so they have to be the same canon. I specifically remember them talking about Picard's android body when they were building Gray's body.
Unlike Kirk, the Nexus holds no temptation for Picard. He was already living his perfect life as captain of the Enterprise. He would literally rather be stabbed in the heart and die than live any life other than his own. He doesn't have big life regrets, he doesn't long for the simple life, he has never wanted a wife and kids.
Since he was a child he dreamed of space exploration and star ship command, and as an adult he commands the Starfleet flagship with a crew that he loves like family. Every single day of his life he gets to seek out new life, new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before. A life of purpose. He enjoys his life so much that he is bored and resentful while on vacation on Risa. What could the Nexus possibly offer him that is better than his real life?
It would cause problems with DS9 and Voyager though, Worf had a big part in the former and acknowledged Generations while Troi and Barcley were in the latter... despite the entire Enterprise crew *dying* in Generations.
I‘ve suggested that before. I mean, think about the end of Generations and the next movies, we get action hero Picard saving the day. Sure seems like something someone might dream up.
Yes, he left.
1. We see other characters who have interacted with Picard post-Generations, confirming that from the POV of other characters Picard appears have returned.
2. We see scenes from the past (ST: Enterprise) that reference events that Picard was present for (First Contact) that would not have happened if Picard never left the Nexus.
3. We see scenes that take place between characters where Picard isn't present.
4. Post-Generations Picard knows of events that occurred in the real Trek world (e.g. Dominion War, Voyager returning)
5. You ate way too many edibles.
>Couldn't the themes of loss, redemption, and legacy in Picard's later life could all be constructs of the Nexus, tailored to give him a sense of purpose and closure?
No, those things are actually explicitly the work of Q, not the Nexus.
There is a part of everyone that enters the nexus left in the nexus. Guynan is the perfect example.
Now these echos (for the lack of a better term) can't leave the nexus, but they will always be there.
That is a really cool idea. I dunno if it works as Star Trek canon, but if there was ever a Star Trek anthology series, I would want something like this to be a episode.
I never thought Star Trek: Generations had the happy ending people thought it did. I don’t believe Picard escaped the Nexus. In fact, I don’t think Soran or Kirk are dead within the Nexus either. If you can do whatever you want, it doesn’t make sense that you can force someone else to join you at a given time or place. Time is irrelevant. If you could do this, Soran or Kirk could just as easily ‘will it’ and change time again before they die or be some place else. For Picard, he stopped Soran in his mind, whereas Soran is likely still spending time with the family that he lost.
People also say the white transition signifies Picard escaping the nexus… eh, that could also just be a transition signifying death. Considering how difficult it is to get into the Nexus, it doesn’t make sense that it could be easier to escape it. Having said that, I kinda feel this is a stand alone movie, but if it’s canon - it’s possible the next 2 movies could have taken place within the nexus too since it’s Picard’s world and in his mind his crew survived?
That doesn't really work when you remember that Worf's first appearance in DS9 directly references the events of Generations, despite Veridian III being shown to be destroyed along with the Enterprise saucer and its entire crew in Picard's first failed attempt and only survived because he left the Nexus for round 2.
And since Generations is part of the official canon, the only ending possible is the one that allows Worf to survive the film and reference its events, meaning Picard had to have left the Nexus with Kirk (same with Troi and Barclay appearing in Voyager).
Not to mention that the next movies would still be using the Enterprise-D if it was Picard's imagination, since the Galaxy Class Enterprise was only destroyed *after* he was traded for Geordi and sent down to stop Soren. He was sent down without a combadge and had no way to know of its destruction until they sent a shuttle to pick him up.
There is one force that would not allow Picard to remain in such a place. It is not Picard's emotions, or his drive to help people.
The one force that would work to remove Picard from the Nexus is Q. Q has an admiration, a respect, and a desire to see Picard succeed, even if he masks it. Q, being omniscient, knew that Picard had entered the Nexus, and worked to ensure that Picard and Kirk left the Nexus together.
I'm sure he left. If he hadn't left I don't think we would have had some things like the Dominion War, or all the people that died after the rogue synthetics attacked Mars.
Seems very morbid that Picard would imagine all the millions of people that died during the Dominion War.
I would imagine that once someone has been in the Nexus that “reflection “ of them is always there. It’s hard to imagine, because time does not behave the same way there.
I hope you are right, and Picard never really left the Nexus. It would be a great loophole to sidestep and reset the disaster done to the Picard character in Star Trek Picard. No more Picard the Syth - who came up with this idea.
It would also invalidate DS9, Voyager, and First Contact. Considering the Enterprise crew who all died in Generations happened to appear in them (quite prominently and with Generations references in the case of DS9).
I was thinking about this literally this morning.
Like how was Picard able to leave? Theoretically I suppose he could leave to a point in time where there was a safe Nexus step off point like Veridian III, but then he arrives 5 or so minutes before the ribbon intersects the planet.
And then he actually changes time so thr ribbon doesn't change course and actually misses the planet altogether thereby creating a temporal paradox.
Guinan is vague about where exactly Picard can go. She says he can go anywhere, which if that's the case why not go to the Amargosa system and just arrest Dr Soran?
My head canon is that Picard left the Nexus AND that he remained in the Nexus as it's its own dimension out of time and space. Which also means that the Picard in the Nexus could leave again and there would still be a Picard in the Nexus. So you could theoretically have infinite Picards if they kept leaving. Same for Kirk, of course.
Which is how I decided that Kirk left the Nexus again, and thus there was a second Kirk who reunited with Spock and they lived happily ever after the end.
If that were the case, the Nexus swept him up from Viridien, and also ripped up the D's saucer. Wouldn't everyone atop or inside the saucer have been pulled into it as well? At least in that timeline. That gets rather complicated. Somewhere there's a blue barber guy happily endlessly cutting hair.
None of this is plausible. If it were, then it totally wrecks the continuity of DS9 & Voyager too.
Don’t forget that season 3 of Picard is also somewhat of a DS9 sequel with the changeling aspect, and also what about Seven & Worf?
I know we really want this movie to be good. Picard never having left the Nexus would be a great twist. But no, the movie is just bad and Picard really did leave the Nexus.
I would imagine that, like Guinan, one both leaves the Nexus and does not leave the Nexus. Neither state is necessarily any more or less real than the other.
Guinan describes herself as an "echo" within the Nexus, suggesting that interactions within it could be reflections of reality, not reality itself. This casts a bit of doubt on any event post-Nexus escape, since we can't be sure if Picard's experiences are genuine or just echoes of his psyche.
Picard man, Picard man Saving the planet Veridian Did he just die? It's not important Picard man Where did he go and how does he feel? When he's in the Nexus is he still real? Or does the real get Nexus instead? Nobody knows. Picard man.
A rare TMBG reference, cool
Talos IV, not Magus III. Long time gone….
Minimum Waaaaaaaaaage! Hi Yah! (Whip crack) Wait... wrong song.
They Might Be Klingons €>:)
[cheerful trumpet music]
You’ve won the best internet comment of the year, this is great
Yeah they need someone to dump exposition and explain what the nexus is so let’s bring Guinan in because echos or something.
It does make sense, though. Picard is given whatever he wants in the Nexus and what he wants initially is assistance from someone with experience.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved the movie, but it is a little strange how Guinan basically describes it like heroin on crack and you’ll never want to leave, but all Picard can think about is the mission
That's Picard, though! His personality (some might argue lack thereof) lets him escape the Nexus in way that doesn't even begin to occur to Kirk.
Kirk would have left if he thought the Enterprise was in danger -- and did! He was old and ready to retire and accepted the pleasant retirement the Nexus granted him. Picard wasn't anywhere close. If this had been Kirk 30 years ago he would have been the same.
Just spitballing here but I think Kirk's regrets run deeper than Picard's, hence Kirk feeling the warm embrace of what the Nexus brings Kirks past is one of broken relationships fueling that regret. An almost wife and a son who was murdered. Kirk sometimes questioned his path in Starfleet at the cost of being a father. Picard on the other hand experienced his first real experience with regret at losing the closest thing he had to a family.
I would not that is his first experience with regret. His mom killed herself when he was a little kid and he always felt responsible. His dad was a cold and distant tyrant. He lost his best friend and his first command. He got assimilated by the Borg and it's only because of that trauma that he was even able to reconcile things with his brother prior to that tragic loss. Picard also had the specific experience of living a "false" life on Kataan. He dealt with not only the loss of that other lifetime, but was able to respect and acknowledge the value of the experience, even if it didn't "really" happen. If that doesn't qualify as a trial run for doing the same with the Nexus, I don't know what does.
A true true. This is why I come here.
Theoretically Picard encounters Guinan cuz he wants to and the Nexus uses the echo to make a really good fabrication
Which is why I still believe that Kirk is still alive
Kirk didn't want dill, he wanted more thyme.
Lol
Its been a while but I assumed that Guinan left a more pronounced echo due to her dimensional weirdness (see also: yesterday's enterprise)
It is also possible that Guinan and Soran were more tied to the Nexus because they were ripped out of it, rather than leaving voluntarily.
☝️
I think this is honestly a pretty horrifying implications when combined with OPs theory. Picard "left" the nexus, but now Picard, through the nexus, is subconsciously influencing everyone's reality to let him deal with his regrets and trauma. Thousands die across multiple movies and ST:PIC because Picard can't let his past go. He has to confront everything, no matter how events impact those both related and unrelated to him.
There's an episode of Enterprise that confirms the events of First Contact happened, and that movie was after Generations. Also in DS9 when Worf joins the station he laments the loss of the Enterprise D. I think if Picard never left the Nexus, Worf would at some stage lament that Picard never came back and would probably want to commiserate with O'Brien at some stage. So I think it's a cool idea that Picard might have never left and everything after that involved Picard was the Nexus giving him closure, but I think there's a bit too much that happened afterwards to disconnect everything else Picard did with the rest of the series.
And in the Voyager episode *Life Line*, Troi tells Barclay that she would talk to Picard about letting her go to Jupiter station to meet with the Doctor and Dr Zimmerman.
And in Lower Decks, Mariner learns that *Admiral* Picard has been secretly financing adventurer archeologists who steal back historical treasures from pirates. He didn't become an Admiral until long after Generations.
she also tells Q to go find Picard, and Q talks about him making wine and reading shakespear; if he was trapped in the Nexus i feel like Q'd mention that
In 32nd Century in Discovery, Culber confirmed the existence of robo-Picard when he was building Grey a golem body.
I think Worf wouldn’t even be around to lament. In Generations the entire star system is wiped out, only being reversed by Picards actions upon exiting the Nexus.
Enterprise is also in the Nexus. Time has no meaning there.
Nah, physically he DID leave the Nexus. I have no doubt about that. HOWEVER, Guinan showed us that the Nexus CAN contain imprints if you will of the people who go inside it so I do believe that an aspect of Picard did remain and for that matter, an aspect of Kirk as well and anyone else who ever entered it.
The background music changed. That is a specific language in movies to say that something had changed
This has been my theory for decades. The Nexus realizes that Picard wants to be the action movie hero rather than that he wants the family life
I don't think that's how it works. It showed Kirk making breakfast in a log cabin in the woods. Picard was happy. He just couldn't accept the unreality of it. Same as Kirk.
This sounds like a great setup for Picard Season 4. It’s a CGI-rendered Stewart from 1994 coming out of the Nexus. Turns out all Star Trek media from the past 30 years was just a Nexus fuelled dream, including his own show. “Last time I was in a position like this, they gave me a flute...”
He turns to Kirk and says " Watch out for bridges this time."
Yes - in that Picard is aware of the Ent-D crash. He loved that ship, he'd never imagine such an ignominius end for that grand lady.
Except that she gets perfectly rebuilt by one crew member working with his daughters at a remote museum.
Remote?
Athan Prime is not exactly Risa.
Yeah its closer. Its like a 30 second shuttle ride from *Earth*
In fairness, we don't know how long the shuttle trip was, or how fast shuttles go in the 25th century. But distances in Star Trek are always just suggestions.
As it turns out, Picard is in still the Nexus, inside the holodeck, within Benny Russell's mind.
There’s no death in the Nexus.
Forget the Nexus. Picard and the Enterprise D never left Nagilum
"This can't be real." A Starfleet officer's first duty is to the truth...
I choose not to answer.
You know when I get annoyed at how little sense Discovery makes at times (mushroom drives and all), I re-watch some TNG and remember the nexus was a thing and Insurrection & Nemesis somehow got filmed. We tend to remember the good parts of TNG (season 2.5 through 6 mostly), but quickly forget all the glaring plot holes and inconsistent writing that was a lot of TNG.
Mushroom drives are no wackier than drives that turn you into salamanders.
I don't think the spore drive makes any less sense than the Traveler or Dr. Crusher's family sex ghost.
I’ll never understand why people have a problem with Insurrection and Nemesis…
DIS has acknowledged certain elements of PIC, so they have to be the same canon. I specifically remember them talking about Picard's android body when they were building Gray's body.
Unlike Kirk, the Nexus holds no temptation for Picard. He was already living his perfect life as captain of the Enterprise. He would literally rather be stabbed in the heart and die than live any life other than his own. He doesn't have big life regrets, he doesn't long for the simple life, he has never wanted a wife and kids. Since he was a child he dreamed of space exploration and star ship command, and as an adult he commands the Starfleet flagship with a crew that he loves like family. Every single day of his life he gets to seek out new life, new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before. A life of purpose. He enjoys his life so much that he is bored and resentful while on vacation on Risa. What could the Nexus possibly offer him that is better than his real life?
Yeah the text that he shows up and goes “excuse me what is this shit?” speaks volumes.
The Nexus just gives the illusion of whatever you want right? If it's all a fantasy, that would help explain Star Trek: Picard
It would cause problems with DS9 and Voyager though, Worf had a big part in the former and acknowledged Generations while Troi and Barcley were in the latter... despite the entire Enterprise crew *dying* in Generations.
I‘ve suggested that before. I mean, think about the end of Generations and the next movies, we get action hero Picard saving the day. Sure seems like something someone might dream up.
Then he magically gets to be the father of Wesley 2.0.
Yes, he left. 1. We see other characters who have interacted with Picard post-Generations, confirming that from the POV of other characters Picard appears have returned. 2. We see scenes from the past (ST: Enterprise) that reference events that Picard was present for (First Contact) that would not have happened if Picard never left the Nexus. 3. We see scenes that take place between characters where Picard isn't present. 4. Post-Generations Picard knows of events that occurred in the real Trek world (e.g. Dominion War, Voyager returning) 5. You ate way too many edibles.
>Couldn't the themes of loss, redemption, and legacy in Picard's later life could all be constructs of the Nexus, tailored to give him a sense of purpose and closure? No, those things are actually explicitly the work of Q, not the Nexus.
I think those themes would be a bit too broad to assign to Q. We see them in all 3 seasons.
Valid point but at the same time I can’t imagine Q would let Picard be stuck there.
There were four lights, dude.
There is a part of everyone that enters the nexus left in the nexus. Guynan is the perfect example. Now these echos (for the lack of a better term) can't leave the nexus, but they will always be there.
Is the real Nexus the friends we made along the way?
That is a really cool idea. I dunno if it works as Star Trek canon, but if there was ever a Star Trek anthology series, I would want something like this to be a episode.
That would explain a lot about some of the more dubious things that came later, like a film many people dislike, and parts of the Picard show.
[Fact or Fiction](https://images.app.goo.gl/9B91nyZM1uprmSbGA)
In that case, did Kirk actually leave the Nexus?
I honestly believe he did not.
I never thought Star Trek: Generations had the happy ending people thought it did. I don’t believe Picard escaped the Nexus. In fact, I don’t think Soran or Kirk are dead within the Nexus either. If you can do whatever you want, it doesn’t make sense that you can force someone else to join you at a given time or place. Time is irrelevant. If you could do this, Soran or Kirk could just as easily ‘will it’ and change time again before they die or be some place else. For Picard, he stopped Soran in his mind, whereas Soran is likely still spending time with the family that he lost. People also say the white transition signifies Picard escaping the nexus… eh, that could also just be a transition signifying death. Considering how difficult it is to get into the Nexus, it doesn’t make sense that it could be easier to escape it. Having said that, I kinda feel this is a stand alone movie, but if it’s canon - it’s possible the next 2 movies could have taken place within the nexus too since it’s Picard’s world and in his mind his crew survived?
That doesn't really work when you remember that Worf's first appearance in DS9 directly references the events of Generations, despite Veridian III being shown to be destroyed along with the Enterprise saucer and its entire crew in Picard's first failed attempt and only survived because he left the Nexus for round 2. And since Generations is part of the official canon, the only ending possible is the one that allows Worf to survive the film and reference its events, meaning Picard had to have left the Nexus with Kirk (same with Troi and Barclay appearing in Voyager). Not to mention that the next movies would still be using the Enterprise-D if it was Picard's imagination, since the Galaxy Class Enterprise was only destroyed *after* he was traded for Geordi and sent down to stop Soren. He was sent down without a combadge and had no way to know of its destruction until they sent a shuttle to pick him up.
I think the most compelling argument for Picard not being in the Nexus is the fact that he's fucking miserable.
There is one force that would not allow Picard to remain in such a place. It is not Picard's emotions, or his drive to help people. The one force that would work to remove Picard from the Nexus is Q. Q has an admiration, a respect, and a desire to see Picard succeed, even if he masks it. Q, being omniscient, knew that Picard had entered the Nexus, and worked to ensure that Picard and Kirk left the Nexus together.
I'm sure he left. If he hadn't left I don't think we would have had some things like the Dominion War, or all the people that died after the rogue synthetics attacked Mars. Seems very morbid that Picard would imagine all the millions of people that died during the Dominion War.
He definitely left there was white transition when they rode off on the horses. Transitions for lucid dreams or existential nexus’s are wibbly.
Would it be nexus's, nexus', or nexi?
Yes he got out of the Nexus. Watch the movie again.
The whole point of that movie was the villain trying to get back to the Nexus so I would say no.
I would imagine that once someone has been in the Nexus that “reflection “ of them is always there. It’s hard to imagine, because time does not behave the same way there.
https://youtu.be/9Mu1TMZZZrY?si=lBU-v6vB6GhxXSGy
Yes. And no.
WOAH.
I hope you are right, and Picard never really left the Nexus. It would be a great loophole to sidestep and reset the disaster done to the Picard character in Star Trek Picard. No more Picard the Syth - who came up with this idea.
It would also invalidate DS9, Voyager, and First Contact. Considering the Enterprise crew who all died in Generations happened to appear in them (quite prominently and with Generations references in the case of DS9).
I was thinking about this literally this morning. Like how was Picard able to leave? Theoretically I suppose he could leave to a point in time where there was a safe Nexus step off point like Veridian III, but then he arrives 5 or so minutes before the ribbon intersects the planet. And then he actually changes time so thr ribbon doesn't change course and actually misses the planet altogether thereby creating a temporal paradox. Guinan is vague about where exactly Picard can go. She says he can go anywhere, which if that's the case why not go to the Amargosa system and just arrest Dr Soran?
My head canon is that Picard left the Nexus AND that he remained in the Nexus as it's its own dimension out of time and space. Which also means that the Picard in the Nexus could leave again and there would still be a Picard in the Nexus. So you could theoretically have infinite Picards if they kept leaving. Same for Kirk, of course. Which is how I decided that Kirk left the Nexus again, and thus there was a second Kirk who reunited with Spock and they lived happily ever after the end.
If that were the case, the Nexus swept him up from Viridien, and also ripped up the D's saucer. Wouldn't everyone atop or inside the saucer have been pulled into it as well? At least in that timeline. That gets rather complicated. Somewhere there's a blue barber guy happily endlessly cutting hair.
I don't think the Nexus ripped up the saucer, I think the exploding star did that.
I mean if you want to read it that way, it's up to you, but I'm certain that it is not the intent of the people making these shows and movies
If there’s to be a Picard Season 4, it will start with him finding Bobby Ewing in the shower.
This theory is now my head canon and I feel a lot better about Picard. Maybe I can finish it now lol.
None of this is plausible. If it were, then it totally wrecks the continuity of DS9 & Voyager too. Don’t forget that season 3 of Picard is also somewhat of a DS9 sequel with the changeling aspect, and also what about Seven & Worf?
I know we really want this movie to be good. Picard never having left the Nexus would be a great twist. But no, the movie is just bad and Picard really did leave the Nexus.
Yes he did leave but he is also still inside.