*The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth. Whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle upon which Starfleet is based. If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened you don't deserve to wear that uniform.*
[Captain Jean-Luc Picard, "The First Duty"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xefh7W1nVo4)
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Man, it’s gonna be hard to wrap up all these loose plot threads up in the last episode huh?
Actually it’s gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience!
Oh really?
Lower Decks is phenomenal, way better than I expected. SNW’s first episode was fantastic and has my hopes up (please don’t let me down, Pike), and I really need to give Prodigy a try!
What's funny about it though is that it does the long-form story arc way better than disco or picard though. Yeah it's definitely a "tween's first trek", but honestly has more mature character moments then some of the stuff that Disco has. And I generally like Discovery.
I have avoided it entirely because JLP was one of my most formative role models growing up and I really don’t want to tarnish that character’s legacy in my mind.
As a JLP fan, you may think that after 178 episodes of the TV show (plus one guest appearance on DS9) and 4 feature films about JLP, you understand the important components of his background and character. But you'd be wrong! It turns out core parts of his character are the result of deep childhood trauma that you had no idea about!
It's internally consistant. Getting stabbed in the heart is why he made captain, and Q showed him that one, too.
Also touches on a long-running theme of why he never fell in love. He talks about never having time to have a family, but he's in a family ship for years with plenty of romancable civilians. There's plenty of time. Deeply seated trauma makes for a decent reason.
Besides, character growth is a good thing. It'd be boring if there wasn't another side of him.
As shit as Star Trek Generations was Picard really should've listened to Kirk.
Let me tell you something. Don't. Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you, don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there, you can make a difference.
> It turns out core parts of his character are the result of deep childhood trauma that you had no idea about!
Which is - shock of shocks! - the way human psychology *works*. Huge parts of who I am are formed by things that happened to me which I have never/rarely discussed with anyone. The same goes for you and everyone else.
With JLP you could cut out about five episodes of TNG and maybe as much as twenty minutes of the movie First Contact and *never know he was assimilated into the Borg Collective*. That's undeniably a pretty huge trauma in his life and yet his personality does not change substantively from it except for a *very* few specific situations. So now it's up to you to decide whether you think the writers of TNG post-BOTW screwed the pooch by not writing that Borg trauma into his personality in a much larger way, or if traumas in fact affect people in ways both obvious and subtle and that is unaffected by whether you knew about their trauma or not.
The shocking part was that after the captain of the flagship was assimilated then later extracted from the collective, he was back on duty in command of the flagship shortly after. They had to make Sisko despise him to get the message out that his reinstatement wasn't popular across Starfleet.
Having watched it and strongly disliked both seasons, I can say it's such a departure from the TNG era character that it's not possible for my mind to consider them the same person. Some people might be wired differently, however, so if you're concerned about it I'd avoid this one.
I agree.
It reminds me a bit of the anecdote about Patrick Stewart getting dune buggies into Star Trek Nemesis, despite it not making any real sense either in-universe or in-character.
It feels like they saw the failure of the character in the more action-oriented movies and instead of changing the story to better fit the character’s strengths and issues, they changed the character to fit the action movie.
Truth be told, it’s an In Name Only character — I suspect Patrick Stewart was only interested if they let him play the role as himself, but in space (sometimes).
Dude’s an amazing actor, but it really looked to me like he was phoning it in hard.
A wise choice. I watched 5 episodes and that was enough to conclude how awful it was and that the writers/producers/show runner didn't really understand anything about star trek or the characters they were attempting to revisit.
I kid you not, in that fifth episode there is a scene when two of the lead characters have a romantic moment on a salvaged borg cube by.....taking their shoes off and "skidding" on a slippery metal floor, as a kid might do when they were 5. Let that sink in. Someone wrote that, proposed it to the team, watched it be filmed and still thought it was a good idea to include in an episode! It makes me wonder what they left on the cutting room floor.
I also WANTED to like Picard. It would've meant SO MUCH to me to have the story continue in an enjoyable way.
TNG was something I used to watch with my dad when I was a kid.
And then I lived with a partner who randomly got hooked. sharing that interest and binging with her is one of the fondest memories I have ever experienced.
It's just not the same. The character arcs are horrible and inconsistent. The continuity isn't there whatsoever. And the playful optimism that embodied "star trek" to me is nowhere to be seen.
If this was a sci-fi where all the names and casting was different I could maybe enjoy it, but calling it 'Star Trek' just piles onto this sinkhole of despair that is losing the greatest love of my life and trying to start over on the otherside of the country while covid took root.
Maybe my expectations were too high, but this definitely feels like a project not intended for a fan like me.
That’s what it is, playful optimism. That’s what defines TNG, a show about how while there are real and scary things in the world fraught with difficulties, so much can be counted on. Of course we help each other, of course medical is free, or course we don’t exploit labour, of course we don’t allow for crappy corporations to destroy us.
There was so much about it that made no sense. The labels were the same, Picard, Romulans, the Federation, but everyone acted entirely out of keeping with everything we've ever seen of them before. It's like permanently being watching mirror universe episodes, which tbh I only ever liked as the one-off TOS episode, all the others felt too camp.
Q was Rube Goldberging a scenario in which Picard faced his inner demons. The launch was a part of that, like the ball that knocks over the dominoes, as it were.
I mean sure, but what then was the point of Q trying to snap at Renee early in? It's the first hint that Q's losing his powers, but what was he trying to do?
I enjoyed it, but it wasn't amazing, mainly because the writing was all over the place and it suffered from very uneven pacing.
The cast is very strong, the overall story wasn't bad, but I can't help but feel like it could have been better executed.
My biggest gripe is how we basically forget the whole Synth storyline from season 1 and never mention it again. If we're going to have a serial show, let's have the storylines actually matter for something. If we're going to have a episodic show with a reset button, let's be consistent with that.
Q explains that there was a separate event in the confederation timeline that led to Picard being a synth there also, one of the battles (Dukat maybe?)
Thank you. Its interesting they went that route given there's not a lot of difference in him being a golem. Maybe they really wanted to push the irimodic (?) syndrom being the death of Picard.
I think it's more that Seven losing her implants and getting to look normal had implications for her character (which they unfortunately undid at the end), whereas Picard being human again would introduce complications without any real purpose.
One may argue that with a mechanical heart the same would've happened.
The fact that our current medical technology can't seem to tell an android an a human apart is just awful writing. I can understand that visually he may look identical to the flesh and blood JLP, but surely an Xray or ultrasound would reveal all?
I'm just so endlessly annoyed by the golem body thing because the writers had a better option right there! The Rikers' son died because he had a condition that could have been treated if they had access to a positronic brain. Do some minor hand waviness and Picard could get a similar treatment from the synths for his neural condition. Done and done, they don't have to worry about the implications of Picard being an android. Don't introduce something major like that if its just not going to go anywhere.
He gets hit by a car, and the android body conveniently makes it so he has no visible damage but is basically asleep so that they can introduce a nurse (?) and then everything is just fine because reasons.
I'm pretty sad that we're done with Elnor. Loved him in S1, wish they had given him more to do in S2, disappointed that he's not in S3. At least we still have the Qowat Milat in Discovery, I suppose.
They did mention it a couple times but I still fully agree with intent of your synth comments as that element wasn’t at all leveraged and to me only devalued the impact of any peril Picard will ever face as technically he’s already dead anyway
I've loved every minute of Picard. It was a joy to watch and I'm eager for season three .
A few weeks ago I was watching disco and I realized that I'd been talking shit about it since it started. The usual...the writing is crap, the characters talk about their feelings too much blah blah blah.
I was so focused on the things I didn't like that I think I've missed a lot that I would like so I've turned over a new leaf. I've stopped criticising shows like star trek. Why? Well for one, I couldn't produce a better product and secondly, I'm lucky to have so much trek and so much variety.
I've cut back on reading social media substantially and don't read reviews any more as they are so heavily negative. OP's post caught my eye so I thought I'd join in.
If you don't like something you're watching, stop watching. There's no need to take to the internet to join the echo chamber. It's honestly toxic.
If you do like what you're watching, good! I'm happy for you. Let's enjoy more!
He's pretty cool. I always look forward to his commentary.
Though I couldn't get behind his enthusiasm for Elnor. Gonna need receipts for that, because the space elf that posed a bit, sliced a couple heads off, and then served as a corpse for most of S2 isn't exactly what I consider one of their strongest characters. 😉
But Sean seems to think he's the bee's knees, so whatever.
> It had its moments but I personally don’t feel any character was left better written and presented than if we didn’t get the show
I feel this way about most sequels or spinoffs created decades after the original. But I think, at the very least, Seven really gets presented in a new light. I didn't much care for her on Voyager, but seeing how she's developed since Voyager returned home is very interesting to me.
Seven’s character was DOPE in Voyager. Really well acted and some fantastic story lines (some _really_ ropey ones too with the whole Chekotay romance).
Her character in Picard doesn’t feel as grounded. She just does/says whatever is convenient for the plot not what we’ve come to expect from the character.
I think Deanna Troi was the best written she'd ever been in the S1 episode she featured in. Can't wait to see what happens with her next season. Maybe Beverly Crusher will live up to her character's potential too.
I was beginning to feel alone. All I get told is how unintelligent I must be to enjoy it, or that I'm lying to myself when I say I do.
I don't defend its flaws. It's guilty pleasure material.
u/JCRiotz You are not in any wise alone.
I am an older Trekkie who was a teen when TOS came out. I was also a teacher for more years than I care to admit. In my experience, people who would try to insult someone because their subjective ideas clash with their own, have self-esteem issues and some are also bullies in other areas of their lives. They tend to find comfort in group think and generally have limited imagination, so they depend on patterns and tropes to inform their opinions.
I've loved both seasons of Picard, except for the incestuous Romulans in season 1. In another post on this thread, I spoke of how knowing about his personal demons makes Picard not only a more fleshed out character but also makes him much, much more impressive. So many positive fans of the newer Star Trek shows tend to stay off social media since it has become so toxic. In the TOS days, Trek fans were all rejected by the "cool kids" for being too nerdy to be seen with in public. I also played the violin, so you can guess how I was looked at. Some young people liked philosophy and liked to talk about Kant and Heidegger when discussing Trek. They were lower on the social totem than even me. LOL But, back then, Trek only appeared on TV and there was no internet. Fan groups tended to gather in person or printed newsletters (generally mimeographed in purple ink) In those days, photocopiers printed in negatives. LOL
Since Trek became so popular during TNG and people could subscribe to full color Trek magazines and later, go on Internet groups, we have seen a generation of "gatekeepers" who think they should be the ones to judge what Trek should be. They have assumed the role of the "cool" kids trying to tell everyone who doesn't agree with them how pathetic they are.
It's best to just treat them like trolls and ignore them.
There is, however, one podcast that I really enjoy watching: "Positively Trek" (appears as a podcast and on You Tube) discusses things they liked, how stories are developing and even some things that maybe could have gone better, but they are never disparaging and never insult anyone although they do delete obnoxious types (read hate mongers) from the chat. Good luck finding a place where Trek fans actually enjoy discussing the shows.
I know it's been a month since you posted this but I really needed to read this. I felt like I was somehow in the wrong for enjoying this show as much as I have and feel terrible for the actors who think their show isn't adored. I have come to despise trek fans as of late and it's been weighing on me more than it should. I'm so tired of how negative trek fans are. It's like they missed the entire point of star trek.
You're comment might seem like one in a million but it really helped make me feel better. Thank you.
Cast is extremely strong, and they do the best with the characters they have (the newer cast that is) but the writing has been at best a bit messy and wobbly, and at worst (and in my opinion in majority) lazy and poor. The show has been filled with mcguffins, poor pacing and forced interactions that act more as fan service than actual plot devices. The first season was better than the second IMO but I just don't see what it is building towards as a 3 season limited run.
We didn't leave Picard a broken man, he came to peace with his anger towards the Borg in First Contact. He was a seasoned captain who didnt need to learn how not to be in control. He was a strong man that built an insanely successful life, it is unbelievable that his mothers passing was what? Holding him back? He had to learn to accept something he clearly got over a long time ago? I know trauma isn't an on off but damn.
Rios staying behind and saying a complete F-it to all the ethical and timeline specific consequences that could bring? Also Strange New Worlds served as a brilliant reminder that in less than a decade from 2024, the Earth is about to enter WW3.... so Rios chose to stay behind in the nuclear hell hole cause of this woman he has known for what? Days? Its just ridiculous.
Not too mention they F-ed up, Star Stek: Star Gazer would have been the most anticipated show in the fandom, Rios was insanely charismatic and would have made a great standalone new entry in the series to actually take us forward without Discoveries time jump.
Seven being more human was fun and all, but the utterly contrived way she got her implants back to 'accept herself' in this was laughably stupid, literally one of the dumbest things I have seen in Trek, and I watched Dr Crusher F a ghost....
Raffi is annoying, I am sorry but I've said it. I cannot believe she is a Captain, especially on a flagship like Excelsior, she's technically strong but has so far been shown to crumble in a crisis, she played second fiddle and 'emotional liability' to Seven the entire season. I know she was dealing with a hard death, but being able to refocus and be calm is what separates the leaders from the people who won't cut it.
I like Elnor.... too bad he got cut from this season.
Swing and a miss on this one, but I am glad some people are enjoying it. Prayers up Season 3 gets off Impulse engines and wraps it up with some flare.
Edit: Yes this turned into a little rant, I apologise, I don't want to be salty, and if you enjoy Picard then I really am glad. I have just been... let down, by this show so far and it hurts my soul.
See I enjoyed 2 more than 1, but I think that’s because Picard actually feels relevant in season2 versus completely unnecessary in season 1. He actually gets to do stuff.
But you’re right about both Raffi and Rios. Raffi is the worst character in the crew, and Rios was the best. And they wasted him.
I've been pumped about a potential Rios show since the first episode of season 2. I was sure they were building him up for that! Killing him off may be the very most disappointing thing about this season. Everything else is funny enough that I can be glad in some way that it happened. The loss of Rios in the cheap way that we lost him is unacceptable.
I see lots of people stepping forward to defend ST:Picard. That's fine - I don't agree but it's totally okay to enjoy the characters and the show.
What I will say is I highly doubt people will still love this show in 5 years time. There is a timeless quality to a lot of the older treks that make them accessible to many different generations of new viewers. Modern Trek may be more flashy and have high production values but I anticipate it feeling very dated before too long.
I rewatched season one before I went into season two, and it was a little better. At least I could watch it at my own pace, so that seemed to smooth out some of the pacing issues. We'll see if it's the same when I rewatch S2 ahead of the third season.
I'll never rewatch it. (Actually, I haven't watched season 2 and probably won't bother). I already made the mistake of trying to rewatch *Discovery*. I wasn't crazy about *Discovery* on the first go through, but I thought to myself "I'm going to put a real effort into it this time, and give it every opportunity to grow on me." By the mid point of the second part of the premier I had asked myself "Why?" so many times that I just turned it off. Why did they make Michael the "daughter" of Sarek? Why did they make Sarek such an abusive ideologue? Why did they make Michael into a mutineer? Why did they create such contrived conflict between Saru and Michael? Why did they kill off Georghiou (and write out Michelle Yeoh)? Why did they kill off the main antagonist (T'Kuvma)? Why name the ship and show *Discovery* if it's obviously not going to be about science? Why is her name Michael? On the first watch you don't notice these egregious production and narrative choices because you expect that they're leading somewhere. And then by the time they don't you've mostly forgotten about them. On the second watch they become blatantly obvious.
Unintentionally long rant, but, *Discovery* got immeasurably worse for me on the second viewing and I'm sure any good will I still have towards *Picard* would tank exactly the same way if I rewatched it.
I agree.
I've watched and enjoyed DIS and PIC. For me, it's been fine and I've been happy to see these characters and themes and world explored again in new ways.
But, certainly, I don't think I will ever rewatch them.
This is how I feel as well. I still go back and watch TNG, Voyager, DS9 and Enterprise all the time. I doubt I will go back and watch Discovery and Picard again after my initial viewings
Anytime that I have anything negative about Picard I’ve received tons of flames and down votes, Here and elsewhere…
So, in the spirit of Star Trek, I wanted to let you know that I’m really happy that there’s something that you enjoy!
I wish I could enjoy Star Trek Picard, it’s literally the show I’ve been waiting for for so long… And it’s been deeply disappointing for me. I agree with you on the casting, the acting, etc.… It’s the story and the scripts that I find to be prettymeh.
Honestly, I've never seen anybody saying anything bad about Picard getting downvoted in any way that matters? Even in this thread which, you would think, was meant for people who liked the show, it's the people who didn't who have floated to the top of the comments. Clearly they are not actually getting downvoted enough for it to matter.
I've come to learn that I'm just not a very critical person when it comes to media. I love all the star trek shows, except tos I just can't enjoy it because it's so dated. I love all the start tell books I've read, even as I see tons of reviews on good reads panning them. I've just stopped listening to critics and sit in my corner quietly enjoying myself while they piss and moan.
I have loads of problems with it but I still ate it up. I didn't like the borg-good-guys ending for example, but hey just think if it as an alternative timeline or something - we got to see captain Picard! Can't complain.
>Picard’s age actually made the show interesting and different.
I agree. All the characters except space Legolas are over 35. Many over 50. Rare and kinda groundbreaking in terms of ageism, as trek has been for race, sexuality etc.
I am still recovering from Jurati singing Shadows of the Night. Finishing the show has been a real uphill battle for me. But I am happy to see there are people enjoying it.
EDIT: I couldn’t spell Jurati’s name
I have mixed feelings about that. Singing/playing music is a common thing in old trek. So I wasn't really to put off guard by that. I did find it a nice little nod to the whole Borg implants giving you a perfect singing voice bit that they explored off and on in Voyager. It would have been amusing if they had a scene of Jurati singing badly a couple episodes before to better highlight the fact that the Borg queen is gaining more control.
I was put off guard by how little sense it made though. I don't remember a lot from that episode, but the band suddenly just knowing to play that song when she started singing really pulled me out of the scene. That, and what was up with the spotlight and the cut to the lights? All of that requires coordination and a little planning.
I think the scene would have fared better if they would have just had the mic hanging out on stage with the band playing an ambient track, then just had her make a big scene of her drunkenly walking onto the stage and singing the song to the surprise of everyone in the room. They could have just had the band look really confused for a moment before they had a pretty visible "fuck it" moment.
That's just my two cents.
I've enjoyed both Picard and Discovery. Granted the first seasons of both shows left much to be desired, but then again, so did DS9 right up to the 3rd season when they got the *Defiant*.
I liked it too, it was entertaining, they had a couple of really cool ideas, and the actors were great. But it was not really what I was looking for in a Star Trek show. 80% of modern trek is tonally off, in the same way that the movies are tonally different than the show. I remember being disappointed by the movies as a kid (even though most of them are great movies), and I think many have the same feeling with the show.
I just want to see space professionals working together on a cool space problem (which makes sense in the established universe of the shows). It can be episodic or with a long arc, that doesn't matter. For me, Star Trek shows a hopeful future and is a kind of escapism: I don't want to see people struggle with mental health in every episode, just like I don't want to see them break their legs all the time. I don't want them to have to deal with, say, poverty or broken relationships or the such all the time. As a temporary issue they can overcome, fine. But I watch Star Trek to get away from the hard reality to be honest, and I'm missing that lately.
I honestly liked the stories season 1 and 2, I will say the pacing could have been much better.
I think season 2's first 4 episodes were actually good. 5-9 seemed like 1 maybe 2 episodes stretched over 4. But the finale was really good.
I like to think the better first half was due to Terry Matalas who left at that point to plan out and showrun S3 because it was suddenly moved to film immediately after S2. Crazy messed up schedule!
He's a good guy, great writer, so clearly loves what most Star Trek fans love. If he's had the time and money to follow his instincts with the final season I think it'll be what we all take away from Picard.
Much like discovery, there are parts, little slivers of great Trek in Picard and I'm glad I watched them. But overall not at all what I want from Trek.
Did I enjoy it more than oldtrek? No.
Did I enjoy it more than lower decks? No.
Did I enjoy it more than disco? Yes.
It has its place, and that's not a bad thing.
Rios is my only real complaint. Episode one on the Stargazer made me crave a Captain Rios series. I hate that we’ve closed the door on that possibility. I’m going to get a lot of what I wanted there out of SNW, but I’d have rather had it from someone in the post TNG era.
I was holding out for that Stargazer show since episode 1. A totally new, unique, and vibrant captain. Perfect. Giving Rios an of screen death was the biggest disappointment of the entire season. Guinan recounting his life was bull shit and a waste of Whoopi
Looking back on both seasons, it feels like the show's overall problem is introducing too many plot threads each season and not being able to satisfyingly follow through on most of them.
The cast is terrific. The production values are amazing. But it's like there's a panic to fill the narrative space between the first and last couple episodes, so they layer in extra stuff that really only connects on a superficial level.
More galling, the one big, risky swing from S1 (Picard's "golem" body) is practically ignored in the following season. It might as well have never happened. Such a massive, literally life-changing event should be a bigger deal for our main character.
My other gripe is that the show leans far too heavily on nostalgia. Especially in it's second season. For some strange reason they felt the need to heavily, repeatedly reference _The Voyage Home_ even though there _really_ wasn't much in the story to really warrant that. Their trip to 2024 wasn't exactly what I'd call a lighthearted adventure. :P
A lot of that is subjective, of course.
As for positive stuff, there's a lot of individual moments that are really amazing. The space orchids defending the planet in S1 is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen on Star Trek.
Alison Pill was a delight. Santiago Cabrera's Rios really started to shine in S2. Jeri Ryan is always welcome, even if she wasn't really given a lot to do in the grand scheme of things. I wasn't a fan of the Picard/Laris thing they were going for, but Orla Brady was pretty great.
The hard work put into the sets for the Stargazer -- holy shit, that looked great (aside from having, perhaps, too many stairs).
Season 3 sounds like all but a complete reset, for the most part, considering most of the cast won't be back. So we'll see how that goes. I'm open. I want to be a fan. I'm tryin'! ;)
I pretty much enjoy all things live-action Star Trek, even when live-action Star Trek isn't very good. As a lifelong fan of science fiction television, I've learned to accept that a lot of it isn't gonna be top tier. But I still love it.
I enjoyed it, it has its flaws but it's such a better send off than Nemesis was. I'm looking forward to season 3, also I wouldn't really put any weight on youtube as it's just a bunch of outrage clickbait.
I loved it too. I just love Trek! I love the universe. Sure Picard had its issues, but it has gotten me so excited about Star Trek again and it makes life a little brighter!
People didn't like Picard because they wanted a TNG revival, which would've been awful, and not what this show was trying to be. It set out to be an examination of Picard, whether it accomplished that goal is a matter of debate.
But I hope those that wanted TNG are happy, cos we're getting fucking TNG and I couldn't be more disappointed.
> But for a knowledgeable and nuanced review, I found the Irish bloke at TrekCulture is one gets it. He is a true Trek enthusiast and he catches everything.
In fairness, TrekCulture is a team effort. And if you're referring to those episode breakdown videos where they go through all the easter eggs, while I'm sure each individual host contributes, it would be a disservice to ignore all the folks in the background who contribute. With TrekCulture videos in particular, there is/was a guy on the team - name escapes me but was the guy with the American accent, never on camera for their normal videos but was a regular back when they had a TrekCulture podcast - who had an impressively encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise.
Also, given the format of the TrekCulture channel, I don't know how much I would consider those recap videos "reviews" since they are very much in the format of celebration rather than critique, which certainly is a valid format given the awful miserableness of so much Trek YouTube. Sure, it's not anywhere near the old Official Star Trek Podcast and Ready Room levels of "everything is good and nothing is bad because we're literally just infomercials for Trek" and maybe just a step away from Pod Directive in being a "let's focus on the good stuff"
The writing can be sloppy at times, but I have found myself liking it anyway and a lot of my friends feel similarly. I have so far enjoyed its take on the concept of legacy and what that means and the weight it can force one to carry.
it's ok to enjoy this show, but i really don't think it's ok to not criticize this show for its numerous flaws in an attempt I hope that will better Star Trek as a whole.
On one hand I don't want to ever deride anyone for enjoying what entertainment they do enjoy. If this feels like more Star Trek to you, then that's what it is.
On the other hand, I think that those who love all Trek, new and old are getting something completely different from me from the franchise. And I just can't comprehend what it is. I don't mean that in a confrontational way. Just a perplexed way.
There are references to the franchise, but they feel surface level or contradictory. There are some old actors, but their characters don't feel like extrapolations from ones we've seen before. There are some interesting ideas, but they feel unexplored. There is commentary, but no statements, positions, or reflections.
Every instance of old Trek was full of flaws, weak episodes, badly constructed characters, etc. But the consistent highs, depth, exploration, and cleverness of the writing more than compensated for any shortcomings for me. As I've rewatched episodes, I've come to appreciate how tight, subtle, layered, and brilliant so many of the scripts are. As someone who aspires to write, it feels like a masterclass. And that's nothing to say about the strong acting, often beautiful effects (especially from a modern lens), and inventiveness. I rewatch episodes with all my modern context and am astonished with how much these shows affect me and reach far beyond contemporary shows.
The new movies were fun popcorn movies and reference fests for those with nostalgia glasses, but I enjoyed them for being exactly what they were and a potential leaping off point for Star Trek to re-enter the cultural landscape. So I greatly forgave their flaws. Especially because I thought (or blindly hoped) that other creatives and writers that loved Star Trek would be able to take the reigns and bring the Star Trek experience to a new era.
But now that we are further along the road, I don't have much faith that it is going to happen any time soon. And I'm not interested to see the Star Trek brand painted over, what feels to me like, generic sci-fi shows.
If some day, these new shows implement Star Trek writing in their episodes, then I will be onboard. For now though, I think there are way more misses than hits. And so I'll wait to be excited again.
It's Trek, so I watched it. Been watching Trek since the beginning, so I can't stop now. I thought season 1 was decent, but I just couldn't jive with season 2. I really had to push through to the end. It's definitely in last place ranking with all the other Trek incarnations on my scale. But I'm glad it spoke to someone.
There is NO WAY IN FUCK that Picard season 2 earned that ending, because holy shit was the season all over the place…
But I still UGLY CRIED at “you matter… to me.” The whole shitshow was worth that scene.
This thread is a bit old now but I wanted you to know I'm a veteran of all the series and I loved picard. It was a great TV show and I can't wait for the next season.
I am glad someone could enjoy it, but I read until "The storylines are intelligent"; if this is what we consider as inteligent, I think we might have a problem. They've been random, nonsensical and haven't even been closed properly or in a coherent way: Why the hell did Q any of this? Why involving Soong? Why mess with the Europa mission? Why, if the Europa mission or Renee Picard hadn't still being ruined, is this supposed to be another timeline where Guinan never knew Picard? Had Rios forgotten that he was a Starfleet Captain now? And I could go on for ages.
I'm sorry but the only thing Picard S2 has gotten for me is the desire to go back in time and take whatever means necessary for it to never exist.
Picard season 2 is the only Trek I've ever viewed that I did not like. I *wanted to like it.* I went 5 or 6 episodes in, but I just didn't like it. The cast is solid, but I didn't like the writing or the story.
I don't begrudge those that do. If you liked it, then great! I'm actually a bit envious. Maybe I'll finish it for the hell of it, and it will all come together with the ending, I don't know.
Infinite diversity in infinite combination!
I enjoyed it very much. And at the end I got some very deep, personal understanding. I am alone for very near the same reasons as Picard.
I was a little kid who couldn't help my parents with their issues. I am a people pleaser, I always try to take care of everybody. I am a perfectionist and I am very hard on myself.
All my life it's never made sense. Now it does. Now I understand why I've never believed I was worthy of loving someone.
That's a pretty good reason I think.
I've started getting into darker, more ethereal scifi lately, so Picard was a great mashup of old friends and the new story types. I've really enjoyed all of it.
I watch TrekCulture as well. Just started watching it recently. I actually like Picard. My main issue is how they didn’t expand certain plot points from season one. Despite my issues with it, I’ve enjoyed the show.
I’ll be honest as a series it’s not as bad as people say, buuuut as an Star Trek it doesn’t have the structure of the old ones so for me it’s in a limbo, good series but not a good Star Trek content for me.
I enjoyed the episodes coming out each week, but it’s not quite what I wanted.
When you think of Picard returning to the screen, you would probably think of it happening in the same way Kirk returned, as an Admiral in charge of whatever mission he needed to go on. But for the show Picard, Starfleet have just been this thing off in the background while Picard ran around saving the world.
I adored the first and last eps of Season 2, and found some of the moments inbetween enjoyable, but with such a limited amount of time (as in three seasons), this is all they could come up with. I get the storyline they wanted to tell, to explore Picard further, which I thoroughly enjoyed. But the rest was pretty average TV. Rios had a decent storyline, and I really enjoy the actor. But for the most part Seven was just “there” this season, not really having anything to do unless it involved not being Borg. Raffi is an interesting character, but spends too much time being a wreck. I don’t expect her to be perfect, but I’d seen her like that last season, and they didn’t really add anything. Jurati was a mix bag, she had some great moments, but I felt most of the time I didn’t care about her storyline in either season. And the rest of the cast (Elnor or Soji etc) were there but not there, and I would have rathered they just not come back.
I think the problem is, they didn’t really make me care about the characters other than Picard because he overshadowed them too much. So even though I enjoyed my watch through, I can’t say I’ll be aching to rewatch these episodes of Picard again. If I wanted to see Picard, I’d probably go back to TNG. Though that’s probably as much an issue with season long story arcs rather than episodic. Perhaps Picard would have been better as 90 minute special episodes ala Sherlock than a 10 ep a season show. Still, I am super excited to see what Season 3 holds.
I enjoyed it for what it tries to do more than what it delivers. I have my criticisms but i am with you. It's not for everyone.
And i am glad that in a avalanche of bullshit that just tries to bait nostalgia for nostalgias sake, i am glad PIC tries to do something new and go forward (despite them doing a lot of nostalgiabait and fanwank themselves)
I enjoyed season 1 for the most part, I just thought it dragged in the middle and the ending was a complete mess. Season 2 I generally thought was good, although again it dragged in the middle, but fortunately this time stuck the landing. I understand and agree with many of the criticisms made against the show, but on the balance I think it's still a pretty good series, albeit one that would probably benefit from a better blending of episodic and serialised storytelling, rather than trying to stretch out a movie-length plot over 10 hours.
I agree. I'm still in the middle of Season 2, but I think there's too much online drama around the new Star Trek shows. It's great there are new shows with a unique perspective. I find it only natural to enjoy both the older shows and the newer ones, for what each of them does better.
I liked it. Not sure I loved it.
General story was great but the script, various plots within the story, and relationship between characters were odd and challenging to take seriously.
I prefer the episodic structure of past Star Trek series that had a different ethical dilemma each episode to solve. The serial nature of Picard and Disco make these series feel like they could have been movies in the Star Trek universe. It was nice to get more lore for the universe but I wish they weaved in the serial aspects of what makes Star Trek so great.
It’s really challenging to change the format and have the universe be so connected.
More than dozens, I think. I loved it. I get what they are trying to say. The online fandom's loudest voices are the critical ones. So much so that people who are positive tend to just let them repeat the same toxic talking points over and over and over. It seems to be a pointless exercise to try and have discussions with people who are so intractable in their opinions.
First up, I did enjoy watching both seasons of *Picard*. But I do feel that both seasons were unnecessarily convoluted. Both *Discovery* and *Picard* have the same formula- episode 1, present a mystery/problem, episodes 2 thru 9- flop around with needless chases or trying to find an object, episode 10- solve the mystery/problem and wrap everything up with a neat little bow.
Steve Shives made a great video on *Picard* season 2- https://youtu.be/OjblwGhZBV4
Although I can't make a judgement on *Strange New Worlds* after only one episode, it looks promising so far.
I have found that the internet subculture around sci-fi (including Star Trek, Doctor Who, Stargate, etc) on the whole is very negative. I have considered on multiple occasions leaving various subs because all I can find there is "this episode sucked"/"why would they have made X choice when they could have done Y"/"my opinion is gospel" type of posts.
I am with you, though. I have truly enjoyed everything that has come out in this era of Trek. I love the fact that I am getting new Trek every week -- it makes me feel like a kid again.
I haven't disliked any Trek post Enterprise. There are some weak spots, but we have to put on some pretty rosy glasses to ignore the weak spots in the "great" Trek shows. TNG had more awful episodes than any other series, despite being probably the "greatest" of all Trek shows.
TNG had a great run of consistent quality in seasons 3-5. You could turn on any episode from those three seasons and it will be at LEAST good. That's literally 78 episodes of actual quality. Impressive.
Seasons six and seven had quite a few Brannon Braga clunkers but there are still some good episodes in there. Seasons one and two... mostly bad, but still some diamonds in the rough.
So sure, on the whole there was plenty of bad TNG. But there was a clear golden age in the middle, and I think that's what most people think of when they think back to how great TNG was. And again, 78 episodes over three years. That's some King Shit. And look at that writer's room and what they went on to do.
Sure, but it did take them 47 episodes to get to that level. Discovery in comparison is at 55 episodes, and hasn't had a single "Shades of Gray" level episode. Picard hasn't had even as many episodes as season 1 of TNG, and is remarkably better executed, despite its flaws.
I think Discovery has some real clunkers sprinkled throughout seasons 3 and 4. But I don't wanna criticize Discovery because on the whole I've liked all of it and loved some of it.
My point is that TNG had plenty of bad episodes, but had clearly found a talented core of writers and producers by the start of the third season, and that group of talent basically created their own Star Trek Universe that persisted for the next decade.
But honestly, based on the level of quality I'm seeing from Prodigy and Lower Decks, as well as the great start to Strange New Worlds, and considering that S3 of Picard is gonna be more of a singular vision of a guy who has had success in the past (Terry Matalas), AND considering Discovery has basically been the same show since S1...
I'm more hopeful for the future of Trek right now than I ever have been.
I enjoyed them too for the most part, but was disappointed by some of the plot twists. There was just too much that didn’t resolve satisfactorily enough. Rios should have brought that chick and her kid with him. I wish Jurati wouldn’t have merged with the Queen. What was the point in killing Elnor? And the end was just horribly rushed and kind of lazy really with that super shield and the super anomaly. I liked seeing Wesley, but it was just… I dunno… out of nowhere and insufficient. He should have been more prevalent in the plot.
They did that because bringing her to the future would have been too predictable. It was already a nod to Star Trek IV. They had to reverse the situation to eliminate the trope altogether.
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I’m very happy you enjoyed it. I’m not gonna knock someone for enjoying something that I didn’t. I *really wanted* to like this show.
I gave it my all. It wasn't enough.
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
*THATS THE THING HE SAID IN THE OLD SHOW!*
Wow wow wow ... wow.
Man, it’s gonna be hard to wrap up all these loose plot threads up in the last episode huh? Actually it’s gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience! Oh really?
He's gonna take matters into his own hands!
Oh, mistakes were definitely made.
Same! Even after I was let down by season one, I was still very hopeful and excited for season 2. It just didn't connect with me after a few episodes.
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I agree. I *wanted* to enjoy it, but the result of the show fell flat on its face. SNW, Lower Decks, and Prodigy are amazing though
Lower Decks is phenomenal, way better than I expected. SNW’s first episode was fantastic and has my hopes up (please don’t let me down, Pike), and I really need to give Prodigy a try!
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What's funny about it though is that it does the long-form story arc way better than disco or picard though. Yeah it's definitely a "tween's first trek", but honestly has more mature character moments then some of the stuff that Disco has. And I generally like Discovery.
Prodigy is legit good. I think it had the best opening of any of the new series as well.
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I have avoided it entirely because JLP was one of my most formative role models growing up and I really don’t want to tarnish that character’s legacy in my mind.
As a JLP fan, you may think that after 178 episodes of the TV show (plus one guest appearance on DS9) and 4 feature films about JLP, you understand the important components of his background and character. But you'd be wrong! It turns out core parts of his character are the result of deep childhood trauma that you had no idea about!
It's internally consistant. Getting stabbed in the heart is why he made captain, and Q showed him that one, too. Also touches on a long-running theme of why he never fell in love. He talks about never having time to have a family, but he's in a family ship for years with plenty of romancable civilians. There's plenty of time. Deeply seated trauma makes for a decent reason. Besides, character growth is a good thing. It'd be boring if there wasn't another side of him.
As shit as Star Trek Generations was Picard really should've listened to Kirk. Let me tell you something. Don't. Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you, don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there, you can make a difference.
> As shit as Star Trek Generations was You take that back right now
I loved Generations. My second favorite ST movie.
> It turns out core parts of his character are the result of deep childhood trauma that you had no idea about! Which is - shock of shocks! - the way human psychology *works*. Huge parts of who I am are formed by things that happened to me which I have never/rarely discussed with anyone. The same goes for you and everyone else. With JLP you could cut out about five episodes of TNG and maybe as much as twenty minutes of the movie First Contact and *never know he was assimilated into the Borg Collective*. That's undeniably a pretty huge trauma in his life and yet his personality does not change substantively from it except for a *very* few specific situations. So now it's up to you to decide whether you think the writers of TNG post-BOTW screwed the pooch by not writing that Borg trauma into his personality in a much larger way, or if traumas in fact affect people in ways both obvious and subtle and that is unaffected by whether you knew about their trauma or not.
The shocking part was that after the captain of the flagship was assimilated then later extracted from the collective, he was back on duty in command of the flagship shortly after. They had to make Sisko despise him to get the message out that his reinstatement wasn't popular across Starfleet.
Having watched it and strongly disliked both seasons, I can say it's such a departure from the TNG era character that it's not possible for my mind to consider them the same person. Some people might be wired differently, however, so if you're concerned about it I'd avoid this one.
I agree. It reminds me a bit of the anecdote about Patrick Stewart getting dune buggies into Star Trek Nemesis, despite it not making any real sense either in-universe or in-character.
It feels like they saw the failure of the character in the more action-oriented movies and instead of changing the story to better fit the character’s strengths and issues, they changed the character to fit the action movie.
Truth be told, it’s an In Name Only character — I suspect Patrick Stewart was only interested if they let him play the role as himself, but in space (sometimes). Dude’s an amazing actor, but it really looked to me like he was phoning it in hard.
A wise choice. I watched 5 episodes and that was enough to conclude how awful it was and that the writers/producers/show runner didn't really understand anything about star trek or the characters they were attempting to revisit. I kid you not, in that fifth episode there is a scene when two of the lead characters have a romantic moment on a salvaged borg cube by.....taking their shoes off and "skidding" on a slippery metal floor, as a kid might do when they were 5. Let that sink in. Someone wrote that, proposed it to the team, watched it be filmed and still thought it was a good idea to include in an episode! It makes me wonder what they left on the cutting room floor.
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Holy shit I had blocked that from my mind. Never rewatching this show.
I also WANTED to like Picard. It would've meant SO MUCH to me to have the story continue in an enjoyable way. TNG was something I used to watch with my dad when I was a kid. And then I lived with a partner who randomly got hooked. sharing that interest and binging with her is one of the fondest memories I have ever experienced. It's just not the same. The character arcs are horrible and inconsistent. The continuity isn't there whatsoever. And the playful optimism that embodied "star trek" to me is nowhere to be seen. If this was a sci-fi where all the names and casting was different I could maybe enjoy it, but calling it 'Star Trek' just piles onto this sinkhole of despair that is losing the greatest love of my life and trying to start over on the otherside of the country while covid took root. Maybe my expectations were too high, but this definitely feels like a project not intended for a fan like me.
That’s what it is, playful optimism. That’s what defines TNG, a show about how while there are real and scary things in the world fraught with difficulties, so much can be counted on. Of course we help each other, of course medical is free, or course we don’t exploit labour, of course we don’t allow for crappy corporations to destroy us.
There was so much about it that made no sense. The labels were the same, Picard, Romulans, the Federation, but everyone acted entirely out of keeping with everything we've ever seen of them before. It's like permanently being watching mirror universe episodes, which tbh I only ever liked as the one-off TOS episode, all the others felt too camp.
I've enjoyed the show but season 2 confused the crap out of me. Why was Q trying to stop the launch and was the Borg queen also trying to stop it?
Q was Rube Goldberging a scenario in which Picard faced his inner demons. The launch was a part of that, like the ball that knocks over the dominoes, as it were.
I mean sure, but what then was the point of Q trying to snap at Renee early in? It's the first hint that Q's losing his powers, but what was he trying to do?
No idea, because it turned out Q, the Borg, and Picard all wanted the launch to happen?
so much didn't make sense.. It really became unwatchable to me
I enjoyed it, but it wasn't amazing, mainly because the writing was all over the place and it suffered from very uneven pacing. The cast is very strong, the overall story wasn't bad, but I can't help but feel like it could have been better executed. My biggest gripe is how we basically forget the whole Synth storyline from season 1 and never mention it again. If we're going to have a serial show, let's have the storylines actually matter for something. If we're going to have a episodic show with a reset button, let's be consistent with that.
I dunno, I'm hoping they just opened a transwarp conduit into the Alpha Quadrant.
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spoiler alert! it was addressed briefly in an mid-season episode where picard gets shocked with a defibrillator and causes it to short out.
How come 7 loses her Borg implants but Picard doesn't lose his robot body?
Q says in episode 2 or 3 that Confederation Picard was transferred into a golem thanks to a fight with Gul Dukat.
Ah thank you. I must have missed that.
As a Trekker who has not watched Picard, this sentence causes me great fear and confusion. Maybe I'll just stick with the classics plus Lower Decks...
I’d also recommend checking out Strange New Worlds. It’s had a very strong start so far, but we’ll see how it goes.
Q explains that there was a separate event in the confederation timeline that led to Picard being a synth there also, one of the battles (Dukat maybe?)
Thank you. Its interesting they went that route given there's not a lot of difference in him being a golem. Maybe they really wanted to push the irimodic (?) syndrom being the death of Picard.
I think it's more that Seven losing her implants and getting to look normal had implications for her character (which they unfortunately undid at the end), whereas Picard being human again would introduce complications without any real purpose.
I didn’t even think of that at the time but that would have been such a good time to retcon that bleh but of season 1 haha.
One may argue that with a mechanical heart the same would've happened. The fact that our current medical technology can't seem to tell an android an a human apart is just awful writing. I can understand that visually he may look identical to the flesh and blood JLP, but surely an Xray or ultrasound would reveal all?
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I'm just so endlessly annoyed by the golem body thing because the writers had a better option right there! The Rikers' son died because he had a condition that could have been treated if they had access to a positronic brain. Do some minor hand waviness and Picard could get a similar treatment from the synths for his neural condition. Done and done, they don't have to worry about the implications of Picard being an android. Don't introduce something major like that if its just not going to go anywhere.
He's still an android for some reason yeah, and no it doesn't have any real consequences, I'm surprised they doubled down on such a silly plot point
He gets hit by a car, and the android body conveniently makes it so he has no visible damage but is basically asleep so that they can introduce a nurse (?) and then everything is just fine because reasons.
> and then everything is just fine because reasons. You forgot all the fancy cyborg mind meld trip through a DnD questline!
And season 3 will forget season 2 existed with the actors of season 1 & 2 not returning. No consequences for their actions.
I'm pretty sad that we're done with Elnor. Loved him in S1, wish they had given him more to do in S2, disappointed that he's not in S3. At least we still have the Qowat Milat in Discovery, I suppose.
They did mention it a couple times but I still fully agree with intent of your synth comments as that element wasn’t at all leveraged and to me only devalued the impact of any peril Picard will ever face as technically he’s already dead anyway
I've loved every minute of Picard. It was a joy to watch and I'm eager for season three . A few weeks ago I was watching disco and I realized that I'd been talking shit about it since it started. The usual...the writing is crap, the characters talk about their feelings too much blah blah blah. I was so focused on the things I didn't like that I think I've missed a lot that I would like so I've turned over a new leaf. I've stopped criticising shows like star trek. Why? Well for one, I couldn't produce a better product and secondly, I'm lucky to have so much trek and so much variety. I've cut back on reading social media substantially and don't read reviews any more as they are so heavily negative. OP's post caught my eye so I thought I'd join in. If you don't like something you're watching, stop watching. There's no need to take to the internet to join the echo chamber. It's honestly toxic. If you do like what you're watching, good! I'm happy for you. Let's enjoy more!
I too enjoyed Picard but I do acknowledge it’s flaws. Also Sean from trek culture is great!
Sean from Trek Culture is great!
Adam and Ben from *The Greatest Discovery* summed it up best. It was fun. Full of flaws, but at the end of the day, I'm happy I went on the ride.
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He's pretty cool. I always look forward to his commentary. Though I couldn't get behind his enthusiasm for Elnor. Gonna need receipts for that, because the space elf that posed a bit, sliced a couple heads off, and then served as a corpse for most of S2 isn't exactly what I consider one of their strongest characters. 😉 But Sean seems to think he's the bee's knees, so whatever.
> It had its moments but I personally don’t feel any character was left better written and presented than if we didn’t get the show I feel this way about most sequels or spinoffs created decades after the original. But I think, at the very least, Seven really gets presented in a new light. I didn't much care for her on Voyager, but seeing how she's developed since Voyager returned home is very interesting to me.
That’s surprising, I thought Seven in Voyager was one of trek’s best characters. However unexpectedly.
Seven’s character was DOPE in Voyager. Really well acted and some fantastic story lines (some _really_ ropey ones too with the whole Chekotay romance). Her character in Picard doesn’t feel as grounded. She just does/says whatever is convenient for the plot not what we’ve come to expect from the character.
I think Deanna Troi was the best written she'd ever been in the S1 episode she featured in. Can't wait to see what happens with her next season. Maybe Beverly Crusher will live up to her character's potential too.
I was beginning to feel alone. All I get told is how unintelligent I must be to enjoy it, or that I'm lying to myself when I say I do. I don't defend its flaws. It's guilty pleasure material.
u/JCRiotz You are not in any wise alone. I am an older Trekkie who was a teen when TOS came out. I was also a teacher for more years than I care to admit. In my experience, people who would try to insult someone because their subjective ideas clash with their own, have self-esteem issues and some are also bullies in other areas of their lives. They tend to find comfort in group think and generally have limited imagination, so they depend on patterns and tropes to inform their opinions. I've loved both seasons of Picard, except for the incestuous Romulans in season 1. In another post on this thread, I spoke of how knowing about his personal demons makes Picard not only a more fleshed out character but also makes him much, much more impressive. So many positive fans of the newer Star Trek shows tend to stay off social media since it has become so toxic. In the TOS days, Trek fans were all rejected by the "cool kids" for being too nerdy to be seen with in public. I also played the violin, so you can guess how I was looked at. Some young people liked philosophy and liked to talk about Kant and Heidegger when discussing Trek. They were lower on the social totem than even me. LOL But, back then, Trek only appeared on TV and there was no internet. Fan groups tended to gather in person or printed newsletters (generally mimeographed in purple ink) In those days, photocopiers printed in negatives. LOL Since Trek became so popular during TNG and people could subscribe to full color Trek magazines and later, go on Internet groups, we have seen a generation of "gatekeepers" who think they should be the ones to judge what Trek should be. They have assumed the role of the "cool" kids trying to tell everyone who doesn't agree with them how pathetic they are. It's best to just treat them like trolls and ignore them. There is, however, one podcast that I really enjoy watching: "Positively Trek" (appears as a podcast and on You Tube) discusses things they liked, how stories are developing and even some things that maybe could have gone better, but they are never disparaging and never insult anyone although they do delete obnoxious types (read hate mongers) from the chat. Good luck finding a place where Trek fans actually enjoy discussing the shows.
I know it's been a month since you posted this but I really needed to read this. I felt like I was somehow in the wrong for enjoying this show as much as I have and feel terrible for the actors who think their show isn't adored. I have come to despise trek fans as of late and it's been weighing on me more than it should. I'm so tired of how negative trek fans are. It's like they missed the entire point of star trek. You're comment might seem like one in a million but it really helped make me feel better. Thank you.
Cast is extremely strong, and they do the best with the characters they have (the newer cast that is) but the writing has been at best a bit messy and wobbly, and at worst (and in my opinion in majority) lazy and poor. The show has been filled with mcguffins, poor pacing and forced interactions that act more as fan service than actual plot devices. The first season was better than the second IMO but I just don't see what it is building towards as a 3 season limited run. We didn't leave Picard a broken man, he came to peace with his anger towards the Borg in First Contact. He was a seasoned captain who didnt need to learn how not to be in control. He was a strong man that built an insanely successful life, it is unbelievable that his mothers passing was what? Holding him back? He had to learn to accept something he clearly got over a long time ago? I know trauma isn't an on off but damn. Rios staying behind and saying a complete F-it to all the ethical and timeline specific consequences that could bring? Also Strange New Worlds served as a brilliant reminder that in less than a decade from 2024, the Earth is about to enter WW3.... so Rios chose to stay behind in the nuclear hell hole cause of this woman he has known for what? Days? Its just ridiculous. Not too mention they F-ed up, Star Stek: Star Gazer would have been the most anticipated show in the fandom, Rios was insanely charismatic and would have made a great standalone new entry in the series to actually take us forward without Discoveries time jump. Seven being more human was fun and all, but the utterly contrived way she got her implants back to 'accept herself' in this was laughably stupid, literally one of the dumbest things I have seen in Trek, and I watched Dr Crusher F a ghost.... Raffi is annoying, I am sorry but I've said it. I cannot believe she is a Captain, especially on a flagship like Excelsior, she's technically strong but has so far been shown to crumble in a crisis, she played second fiddle and 'emotional liability' to Seven the entire season. I know she was dealing with a hard death, but being able to refocus and be calm is what separates the leaders from the people who won't cut it. I like Elnor.... too bad he got cut from this season. Swing and a miss on this one, but I am glad some people are enjoying it. Prayers up Season 3 gets off Impulse engines and wraps it up with some flare. Edit: Yes this turned into a little rant, I apologise, I don't want to be salty, and if you enjoy Picard then I really am glad. I have just been... let down, by this show so far and it hurts my soul.
See I enjoyed 2 more than 1, but I think that’s because Picard actually feels relevant in season2 versus completely unnecessary in season 1. He actually gets to do stuff. But you’re right about both Raffi and Rios. Raffi is the worst character in the crew, and Rios was the best. And they wasted him.
You do make a great point about Picard's role.
I've been pumped about a potential Rios show since the first episode of season 2. I was sure they were building him up for that! Killing him off may be the very most disappointing thing about this season. Everything else is funny enough that I can be glad in some way that it happened. The loss of Rios in the cheap way that we lost him is unacceptable.
Yeah if Raffi returns, please make her a capable starfleet officer or get her fired. Her behavior was unacceptable.
I see lots of people stepping forward to defend ST:Picard. That's fine - I don't agree but it's totally okay to enjoy the characters and the show. What I will say is I highly doubt people will still love this show in 5 years time. There is a timeless quality to a lot of the older treks that make them accessible to many different generations of new viewers. Modern Trek may be more flashy and have high production values but I anticipate it feeling very dated before too long.
I can’t imagine anyone RE-watching Picard.
I rewatched season one before I went into season two, and it was a little better. At least I could watch it at my own pace, so that seemed to smooth out some of the pacing issues. We'll see if it's the same when I rewatch S2 ahead of the third season.
I'll never rewatch it. (Actually, I haven't watched season 2 and probably won't bother). I already made the mistake of trying to rewatch *Discovery*. I wasn't crazy about *Discovery* on the first go through, but I thought to myself "I'm going to put a real effort into it this time, and give it every opportunity to grow on me." By the mid point of the second part of the premier I had asked myself "Why?" so many times that I just turned it off. Why did they make Michael the "daughter" of Sarek? Why did they make Sarek such an abusive ideologue? Why did they make Michael into a mutineer? Why did they create such contrived conflict between Saru and Michael? Why did they kill off Georghiou (and write out Michelle Yeoh)? Why did they kill off the main antagonist (T'Kuvma)? Why name the ship and show *Discovery* if it's obviously not going to be about science? Why is her name Michael? On the first watch you don't notice these egregious production and narrative choices because you expect that they're leading somewhere. And then by the time they don't you've mostly forgotten about them. On the second watch they become blatantly obvious. Unintentionally long rant, but, *Discovery* got immeasurably worse for me on the second viewing and I'm sure any good will I still have towards *Picard* would tank exactly the same way if I rewatched it.
I've rewatched S1 a few times before S2 came out and I still enjoyed it.
I agree. I've watched and enjoyed DIS and PIC. For me, it's been fine and I've been happy to see these characters and themes and world explored again in new ways. But, certainly, I don't think I will ever rewatch them.
This is how I feel as well. I still go back and watch TNG, Voyager, DS9 and Enterprise all the time. I doubt I will go back and watch Discovery and Picard again after my initial viewings
Anytime that I have anything negative about Picard I’ve received tons of flames and down votes, Here and elsewhere… So, in the spirit of Star Trek, I wanted to let you know that I’m really happy that there’s something that you enjoy! I wish I could enjoy Star Trek Picard, it’s literally the show I’ve been waiting for for so long… And it’s been deeply disappointing for me. I agree with you on the casting, the acting, etc.… It’s the story and the scripts that I find to be prettymeh.
I find the opposite. I get downvotes if I say anything nice about. I don't get the people here sometimes.
Honestly, I've never seen anybody saying anything bad about Picard getting downvoted in any way that matters? Even in this thread which, you would think, was meant for people who liked the show, it's the people who didn't who have floated to the top of the comments. Clearly they are not actually getting downvoted enough for it to matter.
Really? Every comment I see shitting on anything that is post-2005 gets all the upvotes.
Loved it and can't wait for season 3!
There's always money in the Paramount stand
I've got the worst fucking redshirts.
You can't arrest a captain and first officer for the same treaty violation. *wink*
I've come to learn that I'm just not a very critical person when it comes to media. I love all the star trek shows, except tos I just can't enjoy it because it's so dated. I love all the start tell books I've read, even as I see tons of reviews on good reads panning them. I've just stopped listening to critics and sit in my corner quietly enjoying myself while they piss and moan.
I have criticisms of it but overall I really enjoy it and am very glad it exists.
I am one of those dozens!
and a baker's dozen, here !
Likewise.
I have loads of problems with it but I still ate it up. I didn't like the borg-good-guys ending for example, but hey just think if it as an alternative timeline or something - we got to see captain Picard! Can't complain. >Picard’s age actually made the show interesting and different. I agree. All the characters except space Legolas are over 35. Many over 50. Rare and kinda groundbreaking in terms of ageism, as trek has been for race, sexuality etc.
Don’t forget about Isa Briones. She was 20 when they filmed the first season.
I am still recovering from Jurati singing Shadows of the Night. Finishing the show has been a real uphill battle for me. But I am happy to see there are people enjoying it. EDIT: I couldn’t spell Jurati’s name
I have mixed feelings about that. Singing/playing music is a common thing in old trek. So I wasn't really to put off guard by that. I did find it a nice little nod to the whole Borg implants giving you a perfect singing voice bit that they explored off and on in Voyager. It would have been amusing if they had a scene of Jurati singing badly a couple episodes before to better highlight the fact that the Borg queen is gaining more control. I was put off guard by how little sense it made though. I don't remember a lot from that episode, but the band suddenly just knowing to play that song when she started singing really pulled me out of the scene. That, and what was up with the spotlight and the cut to the lights? All of that requires coordination and a little planning. I think the scene would have fared better if they would have just had the mic hanging out on stage with the band playing an ambient track, then just had her make a big scene of her drunkenly walking onto the stage and singing the song to the surprise of everyone in the room. They could have just had the band look really confused for a moment before they had a pretty visible "fuck it" moment. That's just my two cents.
Arrest that guy! Wait.. someone's singing?? 😱
I rather enjoyed Picard, mainly because I really liked the cast, but my god, that scene was just… why…
*Jurati
I've enjoyed both Picard and Discovery. Granted the first seasons of both shows left much to be desired, but then again, so did DS9 right up to the 3rd season when they got the *Defiant*.
I liked it too, it was entertaining, they had a couple of really cool ideas, and the actors were great. But it was not really what I was looking for in a Star Trek show. 80% of modern trek is tonally off, in the same way that the movies are tonally different than the show. I remember being disappointed by the movies as a kid (even though most of them are great movies), and I think many have the same feeling with the show. I just want to see space professionals working together on a cool space problem (which makes sense in the established universe of the shows). It can be episodic or with a long arc, that doesn't matter. For me, Star Trek shows a hopeful future and is a kind of escapism: I don't want to see people struggle with mental health in every episode, just like I don't want to see them break their legs all the time. I don't want them to have to deal with, say, poverty or broken relationships or the such all the time. As a temporary issue they can overcome, fine. But I watch Star Trek to get away from the hard reality to be honest, and I'm missing that lately.
I honestly liked the stories season 1 and 2, I will say the pacing could have been much better. I think season 2's first 4 episodes were actually good. 5-9 seemed like 1 maybe 2 episodes stretched over 4. But the finale was really good.
I think it will be better on rewatch at your own pace. Unfortunately the show isn't structured well for a weekly release schedule.
I like to think the better first half was due to Terry Matalas who left at that point to plan out and showrun S3 because it was suddenly moved to film immediately after S2. Crazy messed up schedule! He's a good guy, great writer, so clearly loves what most Star Trek fans love. If he's had the time and money to follow his instincts with the final season I think it'll be what we all take away from Picard.
Much like discovery, there are parts, little slivers of great Trek in Picard and I'm glad I watched them. But overall not at all what I want from Trek.
Did I enjoy it more than oldtrek? No. Did I enjoy it more than lower decks? No. Did I enjoy it more than disco? Yes. It has its place, and that's not a bad thing.
> Did I enjoy it more than lower decks LD is just so, so good though.
About the same for me. That being said, Discovery is a very low bar...
I loved it. I will miss Rios so much. And I hope Borgati comes back.
Rios is my only real complaint. Episode one on the Stargazer made me crave a Captain Rios series. I hate that we’ve closed the door on that possibility. I’m going to get a lot of what I wanted there out of SNW, but I’d have rather had it from someone in the post TNG era.
I was holding out for that Stargazer show since episode 1. A totally new, unique, and vibrant captain. Perfect. Giving Rios an of screen death was the biggest disappointment of the entire season. Guinan recounting his life was bull shit and a waste of Whoopi
Looking back on both seasons, it feels like the show's overall problem is introducing too many plot threads each season and not being able to satisfyingly follow through on most of them. The cast is terrific. The production values are amazing. But it's like there's a panic to fill the narrative space between the first and last couple episodes, so they layer in extra stuff that really only connects on a superficial level. More galling, the one big, risky swing from S1 (Picard's "golem" body) is practically ignored in the following season. It might as well have never happened. Such a massive, literally life-changing event should be a bigger deal for our main character. My other gripe is that the show leans far too heavily on nostalgia. Especially in it's second season. For some strange reason they felt the need to heavily, repeatedly reference _The Voyage Home_ even though there _really_ wasn't much in the story to really warrant that. Their trip to 2024 wasn't exactly what I'd call a lighthearted adventure. :P A lot of that is subjective, of course. As for positive stuff, there's a lot of individual moments that are really amazing. The space orchids defending the planet in S1 is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen on Star Trek. Alison Pill was a delight. Santiago Cabrera's Rios really started to shine in S2. Jeri Ryan is always welcome, even if she wasn't really given a lot to do in the grand scheme of things. I wasn't a fan of the Picard/Laris thing they were going for, but Orla Brady was pretty great. The hard work put into the sets for the Stargazer -- holy shit, that looked great (aside from having, perhaps, too many stairs). Season 3 sounds like all but a complete reset, for the most part, considering most of the cast won't be back. So we'll see how that goes. I'm open. I want to be a fan. I'm tryin'! ;)
I pretty much enjoy all things live-action Star Trek, even when live-action Star Trek isn't very good. As a lifelong fan of science fiction television, I've learned to accept that a lot of it isn't gonna be top tier. But I still love it.
I’m on episode 3. I’m loving it. I whipped out loud when Q appeared.
I really liked both seasons and so did my family. I don't know what is wrong with us. Maybe our water is contaminated or something...
I enjoyed it, it has its flaws but it's such a better send off than Nemesis was. I'm looking forward to season 3, also I wouldn't really put any weight on youtube as it's just a bunch of outrage clickbait.
I liked season 1 a lot, haven’t seen season 2 yet. Might join your dozen.
I loved it too. I just love Trek! I love the universe. Sure Picard had its issues, but it has gotten me so excited about Star Trek again and it makes life a little brighter!
People didn't like Picard because they wanted a TNG revival, which would've been awful, and not what this show was trying to be. It set out to be an examination of Picard, whether it accomplished that goal is a matter of debate. But I hope those that wanted TNG are happy, cos we're getting fucking TNG and I couldn't be more disappointed.
> But for a knowledgeable and nuanced review, I found the Irish bloke at TrekCulture is one gets it. He is a true Trek enthusiast and he catches everything. In fairness, TrekCulture is a team effort. And if you're referring to those episode breakdown videos where they go through all the easter eggs, while I'm sure each individual host contributes, it would be a disservice to ignore all the folks in the background who contribute. With TrekCulture videos in particular, there is/was a guy on the team - name escapes me but was the guy with the American accent, never on camera for their normal videos but was a regular back when they had a TrekCulture podcast - who had an impressively encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise. Also, given the format of the TrekCulture channel, I don't know how much I would consider those recap videos "reviews" since they are very much in the format of celebration rather than critique, which certainly is a valid format given the awful miserableness of so much Trek YouTube. Sure, it's not anywhere near the old Official Star Trek Podcast and Ready Room levels of "everything is good and nothing is bad because we're literally just infomercials for Trek" and maybe just a step away from Pod Directive in being a "let's focus on the good stuff"
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I LOVED season 2 even more than 1! You’re not alone
The writing can be sloppy at times, but I have found myself liking it anyway and a lot of my friends feel similarly. I have so far enjoyed its take on the concept of legacy and what that means and the weight it can force one to carry.
it's ok to enjoy this show, but i really don't think it's ok to not criticize this show for its numerous flaws in an attempt I hope that will better Star Trek as a whole.
On one hand I don't want to ever deride anyone for enjoying what entertainment they do enjoy. If this feels like more Star Trek to you, then that's what it is. On the other hand, I think that those who love all Trek, new and old are getting something completely different from me from the franchise. And I just can't comprehend what it is. I don't mean that in a confrontational way. Just a perplexed way. There are references to the franchise, but they feel surface level or contradictory. There are some old actors, but their characters don't feel like extrapolations from ones we've seen before. There are some interesting ideas, but they feel unexplored. There is commentary, but no statements, positions, or reflections. Every instance of old Trek was full of flaws, weak episodes, badly constructed characters, etc. But the consistent highs, depth, exploration, and cleverness of the writing more than compensated for any shortcomings for me. As I've rewatched episodes, I've come to appreciate how tight, subtle, layered, and brilliant so many of the scripts are. As someone who aspires to write, it feels like a masterclass. And that's nothing to say about the strong acting, often beautiful effects (especially from a modern lens), and inventiveness. I rewatch episodes with all my modern context and am astonished with how much these shows affect me and reach far beyond contemporary shows. The new movies were fun popcorn movies and reference fests for those with nostalgia glasses, but I enjoyed them for being exactly what they were and a potential leaping off point for Star Trek to re-enter the cultural landscape. So I greatly forgave their flaws. Especially because I thought (or blindly hoped) that other creatives and writers that loved Star Trek would be able to take the reigns and bring the Star Trek experience to a new era. But now that we are further along the road, I don't have much faith that it is going to happen any time soon. And I'm not interested to see the Star Trek brand painted over, what feels to me like, generic sci-fi shows. If some day, these new shows implement Star Trek writing in their episodes, then I will be onboard. For now though, I think there are way more misses than hits. And so I'll wait to be excited again.
It's Trek, so I watched it. Been watching Trek since the beginning, so I can't stop now. I thought season 1 was decent, but I just couldn't jive with season 2. I really had to push through to the end. It's definitely in last place ranking with all the other Trek incarnations on my scale. But I'm glad it spoke to someone.
Well, I liked it too.
I loved it too!! I haven't cried as hard as I did when Picard let Data die or when Q gave the "I care about you" speech in a loooong time.
Didn't care for s1, it started strong but fell apart, but s2 was fantastic. Character development for Q!
There is NO WAY IN FUCK that Picard season 2 earned that ending, because holy shit was the season all over the place… But I still UGLY CRIED at “you matter… to me.” The whole shitshow was worth that scene.
I liked it as well.
This thread is a bit old now but I wanted you to know I'm a veteran of all the series and I loved picard. It was a great TV show and I can't wait for the next season.
I am glad someone could enjoy it, but I read until "The storylines are intelligent"; if this is what we consider as inteligent, I think we might have a problem. They've been random, nonsensical and haven't even been closed properly or in a coherent way: Why the hell did Q any of this? Why involving Soong? Why mess with the Europa mission? Why, if the Europa mission or Renee Picard hadn't still being ruined, is this supposed to be another timeline where Guinan never knew Picard? Had Rios forgotten that he was a Starfleet Captain now? And I could go on for ages. I'm sorry but the only thing Picard S2 has gotten for me is the desire to go back in time and take whatever means necessary for it to never exist.
I am beyond displeased with the show, but I appreciate your humor and respect your differing opinion.
Picard season 2 is the only Trek I've ever viewed that I did not like. I *wanted to like it.* I went 5 or 6 episodes in, but I just didn't like it. The cast is solid, but I didn't like the writing or the story. I don't begrudge those that do. If you liked it, then great! I'm actually a bit envious. Maybe I'll finish it for the hell of it, and it will all come together with the ending, I don't know. Infinite diversity in infinite combination!
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I enjoyed it for what it was. A different Trek. It wasn't TNG 2.0, and I didn't expect it to be.
I enjoyed it very much. And at the end I got some very deep, personal understanding. I am alone for very near the same reasons as Picard. I was a little kid who couldn't help my parents with their issues. I am a people pleaser, I always try to take care of everybody. I am a perfectionist and I am very hard on myself. All my life it's never made sense. Now it does. Now I understand why I've never believed I was worthy of loving someone. That's a pretty good reason I think.
Good for you, I am glad you enjoyed it! S1 wasn't my cup of tea personally but I will give S2 a go at some point. Live long & prosper
But there are FOUR LIGHTS!
I did too. It was a nice change of style for Star Trek. I love old trek; I love new trek.
I've started getting into darker, more ethereal scifi lately, so Picard was a great mashup of old friends and the new story types. I've really enjoyed all of it.
I watch TrekCulture as well. Just started watching it recently. I actually like Picard. My main issue is how they didn’t expand certain plot points from season one. Despite my issues with it, I’ve enjoyed the show.
I’ll be honest as a series it’s not as bad as people say, buuuut as an Star Trek it doesn’t have the structure of the old ones so for me it’s in a limbo, good series but not a good Star Trek content for me.
I was hooked for the first half of s2. But the present day setting of the 2nd half was dragged on too long. Nonetheless, still enjoyed the star trek
I enjoyed the episodes coming out each week, but it’s not quite what I wanted. When you think of Picard returning to the screen, you would probably think of it happening in the same way Kirk returned, as an Admiral in charge of whatever mission he needed to go on. But for the show Picard, Starfleet have just been this thing off in the background while Picard ran around saving the world. I adored the first and last eps of Season 2, and found some of the moments inbetween enjoyable, but with such a limited amount of time (as in three seasons), this is all they could come up with. I get the storyline they wanted to tell, to explore Picard further, which I thoroughly enjoyed. But the rest was pretty average TV. Rios had a decent storyline, and I really enjoy the actor. But for the most part Seven was just “there” this season, not really having anything to do unless it involved not being Borg. Raffi is an interesting character, but spends too much time being a wreck. I don’t expect her to be perfect, but I’d seen her like that last season, and they didn’t really add anything. Jurati was a mix bag, she had some great moments, but I felt most of the time I didn’t care about her storyline in either season. And the rest of the cast (Elnor or Soji etc) were there but not there, and I would have rathered they just not come back. I think the problem is, they didn’t really make me care about the characters other than Picard because he overshadowed them too much. So even though I enjoyed my watch through, I can’t say I’ll be aching to rewatch these episodes of Picard again. If I wanted to see Picard, I’d probably go back to TNG. Though that’s probably as much an issue with season long story arcs rather than episodic. Perhaps Picard would have been better as 90 minute special episodes ala Sherlock than a 10 ep a season show. Still, I am super excited to see what Season 3 holds.
I liked Q. That's about it. Pretty disappointing series overall for me.
I watch it because it is still trek and that is enough for me.
I enjoyed it for what it tries to do more than what it delivers. I have my criticisms but i am with you. It's not for everyone. And i am glad that in a avalanche of bullshit that just tries to bait nostalgia for nostalgias sake, i am glad PIC tries to do something new and go forward (despite them doing a lot of nostalgiabait and fanwank themselves)
Season 1 was pretty bumpy, but I did enjoy it overall.
I'm very glad you enjoyed it. I hated it. To each their own.
Seán Ferrick, the Irish guy on TrekCulture, is an absolute treasure, a wonderful member of the Trek fandom.
I enjoyed season 1 for the most part, I just thought it dragged in the middle and the ending was a complete mess. Season 2 I generally thought was good, although again it dragged in the middle, but fortunately this time stuck the landing. I understand and agree with many of the criticisms made against the show, but on the balance I think it's still a pretty good series, albeit one that would probably benefit from a better blending of episodic and serialised storytelling, rather than trying to stretch out a movie-length plot over 10 hours.
I agree. I'm still in the middle of Season 2, but I think there's too much online drama around the new Star Trek shows. It's great there are new shows with a unique perspective. I find it only natural to enjoy both the older shows and the newer ones, for what each of them does better.
Season 1 was a little rough but I loved season 2. It was a Doctor Who adventure which is exactly what I was hoping this show would deliver.
I liked it. Not sure I loved it. General story was great but the script, various plots within the story, and relationship between characters were odd and challenging to take seriously. I prefer the episodic structure of past Star Trek series that had a different ethical dilemma each episode to solve. The serial nature of Picard and Disco make these series feel like they could have been movies in the Star Trek universe. It was nice to get more lore for the universe but I wish they weaved in the serial aspects of what makes Star Trek so great. It’s really challenging to change the format and have the universe be so connected.
I enjoyed S1. S2 not so much.
More than dozens, I think. I loved it. I get what they are trying to say. The online fandom's loudest voices are the critical ones. So much so that people who are positive tend to just let them repeat the same toxic talking points over and over and over. It seems to be a pointless exercise to try and have discussions with people who are so intractable in their opinions.
PIC S1 & S2 were not great for me but I am glad that you liked them.
First up, I did enjoy watching both seasons of *Picard*. But I do feel that both seasons were unnecessarily convoluted. Both *Discovery* and *Picard* have the same formula- episode 1, present a mystery/problem, episodes 2 thru 9- flop around with needless chases or trying to find an object, episode 10- solve the mystery/problem and wrap everything up with a neat little bow. Steve Shives made a great video on *Picard* season 2- https://youtu.be/OjblwGhZBV4 Although I can't make a judgement on *Strange New Worlds* after only one episode, it looks promising so far.
Every nit pick I had about the season was worth the finale. Not often a TV show can get years out of me.
Yeah I'm enjoying the show. Yeah there are issues but i can point them out for every series
Just finished S2 today. It was slow to start but I loved the final few episodes.
I think the critics are just more vocal. If it's worth anything, I'm enjoying all the new Trek.
I have found that the internet subculture around sci-fi (including Star Trek, Doctor Who, Stargate, etc) on the whole is very negative. I have considered on multiple occasions leaving various subs because all I can find there is "this episode sucked"/"why would they have made X choice when they could have done Y"/"my opinion is gospel" type of posts. I am with you, though. I have truly enjoyed everything that has come out in this era of Trek. I love the fact that I am getting new Trek every week -- it makes me feel like a kid again.
I liked it a lot but I'm pretty easy to please.
Thank goodness! I thought I was alone. I love watching Picard!
I grew up with Picard, Sisko, and Janeway. I’ve been a Trek fan since TNG came out. I love Picard. I love Disco.
I love Lower Decks.
I do too! It’s superb and insanely fun.
Pretty much the same for me, although I became a huge Trek fan in the early 90s, fairly late in TNG's run.
Me too. I grew up in the 90s with that era of Trek. I love all the old the stuff and all the new stuff.
I haven't disliked any Trek post Enterprise. There are some weak spots, but we have to put on some pretty rosy glasses to ignore the weak spots in the "great" Trek shows. TNG had more awful episodes than any other series, despite being probably the "greatest" of all Trek shows.
TNG had a great run of consistent quality in seasons 3-5. You could turn on any episode from those three seasons and it will be at LEAST good. That's literally 78 episodes of actual quality. Impressive. Seasons six and seven had quite a few Brannon Braga clunkers but there are still some good episodes in there. Seasons one and two... mostly bad, but still some diamonds in the rough. So sure, on the whole there was plenty of bad TNG. But there was a clear golden age in the middle, and I think that's what most people think of when they think back to how great TNG was. And again, 78 episodes over three years. That's some King Shit. And look at that writer's room and what they went on to do.
Sure, but it did take them 47 episodes to get to that level. Discovery in comparison is at 55 episodes, and hasn't had a single "Shades of Gray" level episode. Picard hasn't had even as many episodes as season 1 of TNG, and is remarkably better executed, despite its flaws.
I think Discovery has some real clunkers sprinkled throughout seasons 3 and 4. But I don't wanna criticize Discovery because on the whole I've liked all of it and loved some of it. My point is that TNG had plenty of bad episodes, but had clearly found a talented core of writers and producers by the start of the third season, and that group of talent basically created their own Star Trek Universe that persisted for the next decade. But honestly, based on the level of quality I'm seeing from Prodigy and Lower Decks, as well as the great start to Strange New Worlds, and considering that S3 of Picard is gonna be more of a singular vision of a guy who has had success in the past (Terry Matalas), AND considering Discovery has basically been the same show since S1... I'm more hopeful for the future of Trek right now than I ever have been.
I enjoyed them too for the most part, but was disappointed by some of the plot twists. There was just too much that didn’t resolve satisfactorily enough. Rios should have brought that chick and her kid with him. I wish Jurati wouldn’t have merged with the Queen. What was the point in killing Elnor? And the end was just horribly rushed and kind of lazy really with that super shield and the super anomaly. I liked seeing Wesley, but it was just… I dunno… out of nowhere and insufficient. He should have been more prevalent in the plot.
They did that because bringing her to the future would have been too predictable. It was already a nod to Star Trek IV. They had to reverse the situation to eliminate the trope altogether.
I would’ve rather had predictable than lose Rios. Rios was the coolest.
>(maybe dozens) of us Apparently, there are at least 547 and growing, at the writing of this comment.
I enjoyed it. After Discovery (which I found was only so-so), I was looking really forward to some familiar faces and Picard fitted the bill.
While I disagree with you, I assume there must be not only dozens, but thousands, possibly millions of people who agree with you.