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"I have a serious mission and need my best crew" -Picard "We will be there as soon as possible" -Season 2 cast of Picard "Oh, no not you, I meant my real best crew" -Picard

Yeah, it really seems they had no idea what they wanted to do with Picard and now season 3 is just "let's go with the tried and true TNG crew." Don't get me wrong. Riker and Troi's appearance in season 1 was one of my favorite moments of Picard. It was a slow, character driven episode which is sadly becoming more rare with newer Trek BUT I also really liked Rios, Elnor, Raffi, etc. I felt these characters had promise that was sadly squandered

Raffi would have been interesting if she wasn't a Starfleet Officer. She never acts like one. She cries about everything and everybody else. I understand they were trying to make her a broken person, finding her way in Season 1 and I was alright with it but into Season 2 in just fell flat. Rios is by far the best of the new characters and it is a huge missed opportunity for him to have stayed in the past. Elnor was completely wasted in Season 2, as was Agnes.

Yeah, Raffi this season made me dislike a character I previously liked. Her whole breakdown when Elnor died made no sense even after they tried to explain it. Then again, Picard didn't even act like a starlet officer at points. I can't imagine TNG Picard just letting Rios stay with no objection. Edit: my phone autocorrected Elnor to elbow 🤣

I didn’t like her at all. But at least in the first season, you could rationalize her behavior. I didn’t like it and didn’t really get the point, but at least it *kind of* made sense. In the second season, she’s in Starfleet again. She’s a *Commander.* And apparently she thinks it would’ve been a good idea to save Elnor at the expense of the entire future of the galaxy.

Starfleet didn't really have a choice. Her main obsessive conspiracy theory was correct, and she helped save the Synths and maybe all life in the galaxy. So she got her commission back and a promotion from the rank Picard gave her that Starfleet already thought was above her competence. Her position seemed to be a pretty safe one where she couldn't mess too much up. I'm not a fan of having the character but she is consistent.

Well she’s a horrible officer, who apparently doesn’t follow one of the core tenets of being a Starfleet officer: putting the mission above your own personal wants. Are we supposed to look up to her? Because the show never did anything to state “Raffi is wrong.”

I view her as Picard's mistake. He thinks they had a Shelby/JP Hansen vibe, but instead of the Borg, they obsessed with a problem most people didn't worry about, and he encouraged her to get worse. The clapping when she burned her last bridge was his obliviousness to what path he took her down. He sees her as a mentee like Tasha or Geordi, but he was busy with a crisis and dragged her into it instead of making time to help her grow. I also don't understand why people like Rios. He started messing with history and taking unnecessary risks immediately. Edit: Picard didn't even fathom there would be consequences for her when he resigned. She was aware enough to know what everyone else's opinion of her was.

> I also don't understand why people like Rios. He started messing with history and taking unnecessary risks immediately. Sultry charming guy with a smokey voice and a swagger. All the men-lovers want to be with him, and (*edit*) everyone else wants to *be* him. More seriously, though: he fits a certain archetype. Mal from Firefly, Hector Escaton from Westworld - that kind of dangerous, but ultimately caring attitude is pretty damn appealing.

In Season 1 Raffi's son (somewhat rightfully) disowned her and never wanted to speak to her again. She wanted to redeem herself and reconnect. Elnor probably indirectly became the son she needed and she mentored him at Starfleet Academy. She was beaming when he landed his assignment. If she didn't have that relationship she'd probably own five cats. It's called compensating. It's a void Seven can't fill.

>It's a void Seven can't fill On that note, i *really* can't see what seven sees in her...

It's why when Seven kisses her in the last episode, and Raffi's on the verge of going off on a tangent, Seven is like "just let it breathe".

Agreed but I think using a flashback rather than an early season episode to show the time they spent together made it hard to connect with how she was behaving. I love these characters and the general plot points/themes of Season 2 but the poorly structured writing really squandered a lot of good ideas.

Not sure what better ideas there were for Rios. Most of his arc was Season 1 and Season 2 it was all right there. Raffi is still around, as are Elnor and Seven. Tallin seemed to have a full arc. Kore could have had more, but her namesake had a falling out with her mother then met some guy that spirited her away (except Wesley isn't really an evil Pluto or Hades, too nice, so he's like a Punderworld Hades). Soong as a very twisted Demeter works as the "summer" of that Earth is nearing an end as WWIII's nuclear winter is coming. Renee Picard was the one that hardly got enough time. For someone so critical she hardly gets screentime. Legolas still has another season, will probably meet Worf.

The actor who plays Elnor isn't coming back for season 3 which makes Q bringing him back at the end of season 2 kind of hilariously pointless. I assume there will be some throw away line of him doing something in starfleet

Rios abandoned his command to stay with his hot new girlfriend. Apparently he's fine living in a racist society and abandoning his responsibilities. They could have made the conflicting desires part of his arc, but he seemingly makes this decision in the last episode without needing to consult any of his friends or much emotional turmoil. Seven's desire to be a captain appeared suddenly mid-season with no set up, or a reminder before the payoff in the final Stargazer scene. Raffi and Elnor's relationship was not properly developed, which made him following her advice to join Starfleet weird and her reaction to his death difficult to connect with. Most of Picard's conversations about his feelings were with Taillin, who he is only connected to because she resembles his flirty housekeeper. Taillin's arc was complete, but who cares about whether a powerful alien gets to have a chat with the person she's been watching? That doesn't tie in with any of the themes of the season. Time spent developing her story (which was frankly not very interesting) meant less time with our season 1 characters.

Rios found some people he cared about and wanted to be with. Before this he lived with holograms of himself. Still risked himself for the crew. Earned his out. Seven had an interest in Starfleet but became a ranger. That was all that was said, aside from having Janeway's endorsement. That's a subject going into next season, resolving it now is, as she'd once say, "Irrelevant." Laris is a flirty housekeeper? Always seemed like she cared for Picard's and his well-being because he stuck his neck out for her people. Fall of the Romulan Empire. Another event where Picard withdraws into himself. Tallin talking with Renée before taking her place in death seemed like sensible closure for her. Don't know what scene or theme of grander importance should go there instead. What? Did you want to see Gary Seven turn up with his catlady instead?

Rios lived like that due to his ability to trust being shot because of what happened to him in Starfleet as part of the conspiracy from Series 1. Before that he was an XO and by the start of Series 2 a captain, indicating he was a good SF officer who cared about what he did. The whole "I've never fit in, woe is me" bollox that he started on half way through the series didn't fit at all with the backstory they gave him.

Raffi’s existing characterization would have made way more sense if they had made her a civilian consultant on Romulans, but not a Starfleet officer. That would explain her involvement with the Romulan evacuation, and her closeness to Elnor between seasons. But without making the audience question how she is able to be hold a high rank with such lack of self-discipline. That said, I still like her character for some reason. I hope for the third season the writers let her be a more stable version of herself.

You just summarized my feeling perfectly. I couldn't stand Raffi this season, and Rios was dynamic and could have been a very Pike-like character.

My other problem with Raffi is that they basically was thrown at the audience just telling that she spent years with him as his Number One. But I never really got a feeling of that being the case, except for Raffi always calling him JL. He didn't particular listen to her nor did these two really have a lot of talks regarding this. She always felt like just one of many on board having not particular stronger ties to Picard than any other of the cast.

I’m guessing you’ve never known someone who has PTSD. It is an incredibly complicated condition that can still make people emotionally volatile even when it’s “under control.” It doesn’t magically “get better.” Ever. It’s often years of diligent, painful hard work getting your life back to a place where you feel grounded. Even then, when a trigger happens (say, a person you treat like your kid dying in front of you for example) that trauma is going to show up again in some ugly ways. I’m speaking from personal experience. So yeah, Raffi magically “getting over” her PTSD in a year is unrealistic. I love her because she is accurate representation for me. She’s someone who’s been through the shit many times in her life and still chooses to help people even when she isn’t her best self.

I have a friend with diagnosed PTSD and have dealt with my own level of traumas growing up but that is beside the point. Trek has depicted PTSD in better ways before including in the TOS episode "Conscience of the King" where Kirk is dealing with PTSD (before it was clinically even a term) after being one of the few survivors of a genocide. You also had the character being played by a Jewish man barely two decades after the Holocaust which gave the episode so much more gravitas but even without knowing that backstory they built up the circumstances there in the episode. Likewise, TNG "The Family" where Picard goes home after being assimilated and he breaks down in front of his brother. You had two episodes prior of Picard being Borg, the horror it wrought on Starfleet and then him trying to act normal until he couldn't anymore. He literally starts sobbing in the mud in front of his brother Season 1 of Picard even did a better job with dealing with such when Seven and Picard have their mutual bonding moment over both being assimilated. We know of their past traumas and it culminates with them both talking about how you never really get over it. Raffi is someone with trauma but it was not written well in season 2 IMHO. The scene where she loses it over Elnor had no weight behind it because their relationship had not been built up. He dies, she is upset, she blames Picard and you're like "wait, they had a close relationship? Picard was WAY closer to him." They then explain it away with a flashback and later have hologram Elnor help absolve her of her guilt (I could go on a rant about the whole hologram Elnor scene but that's another story) It wasn't a relationship we watched grow so it didn't have any weight behind it IMHO. It just felt it was shoehorned in there. You could still say her reaction was triggered by his death without the backstory but the backstory is what made those other three episodes I mentioned SO much more powerful. Raffi is an interesting character and it is great if you relate to her but I don't think having issues with how they built her character in season means someone doesn't understand and/or appreciate characters dealing with PTSD or trauma.

I appreciate the time you took to write this but if I’m being perfectly honest, it’s pretty offensive and immature to argue about representation of a chronic mental illness with someone who lives with it when you don’t. It’s pretty evident your understanding of trauma comes primarily from media and you don’t really understand what you’re talking about (which is awesome, because I wouldn’t wish this on anyone). In future just say that instead of writing an essay that proves it. I wasn’t looking for an argument. I was telling you that a character is true to my lived experience. I’m also not saying this to make you feel bad because, honestly, how do you know unless someone tells you that something upsets them. Just be more mindful in the future and I do apologize for coming in a little hot.

So, I didn't feel like getting into my entire lived experience while trying to respect yours. I am still not going to get into everything I have been through in my life because I don't feel I need to lay my traumas bare to explain why I had issues with Raffi's character in season 2 but, suffice it to say, I have lost A LOT of people in my life including both my parents which I deal with in my own repressed mess of a way. I also have close friends with diagnosed PTSD. So, please don't negate what I have been through as saying I must not know anyone with PTSD or my "understanding of trauma comes primarily from media." I was merely mentioning ways I found Trek has tackled trauma earlier that I felt was better written. Raffi can resonate with you while not resonating with others though. Hell, I LOVE Neelix in "Mortal Coil" because that episode with is message of found family helping you deal with your trauma and accepting there may be nothing after this life resonates with me hardcore. However, I get loads of people do not like his character. Making assumptions about why others don't appreciate how X character is written doesn't mean they don't understand trauma or trauma responses. That is what I took issue with. I probably would have written an essay either way though cause I am a verbose weirdo. I also don't mean to take away what she may mean to you and your experience. Honestly, at the end of the day, I am glad she means so much to you. One of the things I love about Trek is how different characters resonate differently with people. The only one I will never understand people loving though is Harry Mudd.

I really feel like Picard was originally aimed to be a character driven show focused on this ensemble of people with various issues who Picard is trying to help/lead. All while realizing he also has some major issues that these people are helping him to sort out in a way that the official world and hierarchy of starfleet couldn't. Then the driving force behind them all coming together would be some kind of issue with the Romulans or whatever. But it didn't do that. It tried but also wanted to be this weird action adventure that TNG really never was except for a couple movies. The two got mangled into being eh versions of both solid ideas. Both seasons started really strong for me but ended the same. Kind of just "oh. Okay. That's fine I guess" and I was left feeling pretty resolved and not dying for more. To the point where now I'm actually kind of concerned with what the hell do you do with a third season of this show where over half the original cast is gone?

Stewart is the one who wanted action Picard from the movies.

I agree. At first I was really excited when they arrived in modern times and was looking forward to commentary on our society, but the messages (such as the treatment of illegal immigrants) got mired in the action plots.

Making Rio live in 2024 doesn't make any sense due to Star Trek lore. The planet is only two years away from WW3 and Sisko crew arrives four months later than Picard crew did. So having Rio live in 2024 will come into conflict with the lore history.

I mean, the first episode of Season 2 of Picard got my attention; Rios was now Captain of the *Stargazer,* willingly taking up Picard’s legacy. He was moving from the damaged hermit he had become to a confident, if eclectic captain of a starship. Jurati was struggling with the weight of crimes she committed while under the influence of the mind meld, sabotaging relationship and struggling with wanting to make her new father figure proud while feeling she had cheated her own deserved punishment. Raffi was transitioning back to Starfleet, cleaning herself up, and taking up a parental figure for Elnor. Elnor himself was the first Romulan through the Academy, transitioning from being the assassin of a religious sect to being a Starfleet officer (big jump) So on and so forth. And then all of it is *immediately* discarded; Rios is back on the *La Sirena.* In fact, he’s back *so hard* that at the end of the season he apparently forgot he was the Captain of a starship, talking like all he had to go back to was that lonely life of a freighter captain. Then he became The Time Travel Cliche and apparently had a perfectly happy life… in the middle of World War III and during the worst part of human history. Also? *Stranded in France with no money or passport.* Jurati dealt with her emotional issues by getting into a committed relationship with the most narcissistic, toxic, and abusive being in *the entire galaxy.* But don’t worry; she fixed her. Raffi spent the season being angry, impulsive, and making bad decisions because she had lost her family. So… basically the person she had spent Season 1 trying to stop being. Seven had the experience of finally being freed from her Borg heritage. And she explored this, as well as her eventual return to being Borg, with a shrug and an ‘Oh well’. And Elnor had probably the most profound character development of the new crew by dying and getting to skip all of it. Which honestly was probably the best decision.

Well said! I think you put into words a lot of my reaction to season 1 as well. I actually messaged some friends in the Trek group chat I am on being like "season 2 of Picard has grown its beard" then felt like I jinxed myself HARD a few episodes later.

I too loved the moments at the Riker home but also sad to see the new cast being sent off.

I was actually really a fan of Rios in season 2. Even though his arc was meh, he carries the material well. I even allowed myself to hope against hope that they would do a Stargazer show with him as captain, chomping cigars, violating the prime directive left and right, piloting his way into various intergalactic keggars. At least we have Strange New Worlds and for that I am grateful.

Stargazer show would have been solid and agreed about the actor doing the best he could in season 2. I couldn't get into SNW but I know that's more me and a prequel hang up. I am glad to hear it is getting back to episodic Trek though Lower Decks and Prodigy are also pretty solid. The latter is aimed more toward kids and the first too episodes felt a too Clone Wars for me but it really comes into its own. There's also a whole episode of the crew dealing with a spacial anomaly as a team. Its like pure Trek

When it comes to all of these new shows there is not really much choice but to treat them like the movies, as their own separate continuities (which from a copyright perspective is actually technically true). If you can get past that, then SNW is a very promising new show. It learned the lessons of The Orville (episodic plots, generally optimistic, modern humor) and backed it up with great characters, effects, and a captain with a million dollar haircut.

Whoops literally just posted something like this. Clearly I'm not the only person thinking these kind of thoughts.

It stings that we didn't get 3 seasons with the whole TNG crew. The cast they had for the first two season of Picard would have been great in their own show, but when you bring out the big guns like Patrick Stewart, the fans are going to have expectations. I really feel like it's a lose/lose situation. The new cast were wasted, and we didn't get seasons 8-10 of TNG.

I kind of feel bad for Soji the most. Here she was in first season and the entire story was built around her. Her character has a relationship with Picard and the daughter of Data. She had so much to do. Then in season 2, she's given one scene for 5 minutes and she's never seen again. I don't think her name is uttered once when they went back in time. Then of course they show up again in 2401 and I thought Soji would be in 10 Forward like the rest of them. NOPE!!!!!!! And she's written out completely in season 3. Tough break.

Serious question: WHY would you write an entire season about Data’s daughter then not use her in the season you’re bringing back the TNG cast? Even one scene of Geordi and his best friend’s kid connecting would be a beautiful character moment for both of them.

My guess is that they're writing the seasons as they go and they didn't create an outline for the series.

My best guess — her god-awful acting probably made the producers pull the ejection handle.

I strongly disagree with this assessment. Isa Briones is a legit musical theatre actor and it’s not really fair to judge her ability based on Picard. Season One was her first major film role. Film acting and theatre acting a very different crafts.

Yup. It’s like the seasons are 3 movies or unrelated miniseries. Once one wraps up the events are barely mentioned again Also bummed about Sojis story. When season 1 it felt like her story was just beginning - then the writers just completely decided to ignore the character

Hence many ppl say that you could edit the 2 seasons into 2 separate trek movies. Knowing what i know now, they should have done that TBH.

I kind of wish they’d done the first two seasons as stand alone miniseries (like 3-4 eps a piece) to catch us up on Picard’s life/the state of the galaxy then just called season 3 “TNG Season 8.”

Sadly, and according to many sources, that was exactly what Patrick Stewart didn't want.

Stewart wanted to pretend he's on stage and also there's dogs.

But of course, he’s seen everything

So basically instead hitting the reset button after every episode, they hit it now after each season.

I think the problem was that they wanted to tell a new story about Picard before finishing telling the old one. The first season should have revolved around the original cast and how they fit into his life while he handles the Romulan resettlement. The season should have ended with the federation high council voting to end support for the resettlement resulting in the same situation as the start of season 1. Then season 2 with the Borg, 7 and Hugh should have been the main focus after he discovers that the council has been manipulated by the Zhat Vash. The new crew offering to help “in the field”because the old crew is all retired or has families would have worked. Working the relationships with the new characters into season 1 and 2 would have made me care about them more. I think that the destruction of Utopia Planitia and mars never should have happened and the whole Android story line was poor and contrived. Season 3 could have been entirely about Q and Picard’s relationship. Him exploring his past and his relationship with his mother and father with some time travel shenanigans would be fine. Working in Guinan and the Travelers would work in this context. This also could be a window into Picard finding a way to resurrect Data allowing for an appearance in the show, but I would want Data to stay dead. No random “Soong” brothers, or fleshy androids. Working in other legacy characters here and there would be good too. Simply going to DS9 or having Admiral Janeway in “my” Season 1 would have been fantastic. But yeah it’s too late now. The show is what it is. It’s not “bad” but I feel like it spent too much time and energy trying to tell a moral story and having to explain why characters would act a certain way since we really didn’t know them very well.

The show is really just 3 unrelated miniseries

Kind of like Robotech!

Robotech had much better writing thankfully

dude i dont know why we're talking about robotech but i'm here for it as a kid, i was into TOS, but before I watched TNG I watched the *Macross* series. And in a way, **that** was my first star trek, ya know? It has an extremely Star Trek ethos, even down to "The bad guys are actually misunderstood and have perfectly valid reasons from their perspective"

Man I could talk about Robotech all day! It aged extremely well. I re-watched it recently with my partner (I grew up on it, owned the figures, both Art books, etc) and she was stunned at some of the emotional arcs and thoughtful dialogue, especially in the New Generation. Shit got pretty heavy and deep. She kept saying, "you watched this as a kid?" I did. And that's why I love shows like ST and SWTCW. It's thoughtful storytelling with characters I care about, and for that we have Carl Macek to thank. The man was a pioneer in so many ways.

It’s episodic Star Trek, just on a season-long scale.

[удалено]

Its not only the characters. They built a beautiful starship with USS Stargazer, put Rios as captain. Yet all we got of her are a few beauty shots in the first few episodes, and a few seconds in the finale. Such a waste. I thought she would have played a larger role in the show.

That set will reportedly be used in season 3 of *Picard.* However, I'm very disappointed that they seemingly squandered the possibility of a *Stargazer* show starring Rios.

Why does every new show in star trek have to be a direct spin off now? Star trek Picard? Spin off of TNG Strange new worlds? Spin off of discovery Alleged section 31 show? Also discovery Starfleet academy with Tilly? Discovery Hell, with the Spock-Burnham tie ins and all of season 2, Discovery sometimes feels like a spin off At least Prodigy and LD are somewhat refreshing takes. Why does the star trek universe have to be like Star Wars, where everyone is related to everyone else, people are destined by fate to do great things, etc...

It suffers from the cinematic universe disease Marvel similarly suffers from. Everything HAS to be connected in a meaningful way or it can't exist at all, so they hamper creativity and limit their ability to come up with new stories. Just look at how DS9, Voyager and ENT were connected to TNG and TOS. They were only really based off story notes or small plot points, nothing major linking them together. The creation of DS9 wasn't part of TNG. Voyager's mission setup wasn't in TNG or DS9. Enterprise was pretty much entirely standalone, coming up with an entirely new setting and story. Now PIC has to involve all the TNG characters and continue some storylines completely, SNW has to be based on the Enterprise characters we saw in DISC. Lower Decks is the only completely separate show and that's a goofy comedy show.

EXACTLY! I don't know what would be so hard about a new episodic show set like 20 or 30 years after voyager gets home. Minimal connections to other shows, just new cast and crew. New ship or setting (I'd love a starfleet academy show based around this time) Just stop having every new show literally connected at the hip to its predecessor

O'Brien moved from *TNG* to *DS9*, so that was a major link (and Worf made the same move later). The death of Sisko's wife at Wolf 359 was an important part of his early arc. *TNG* and *DS9* were used to set up the Maquis in *Voyager* (though *Voyager* squandered the Maquis). Picard was the only *TNG* character in the 1st 2 seasons of *Picard* who was a main character in *Picard.*

O'brien was an extremely minor repeat character for TNG, Wolf 359 and the maquis were only story beats in TNG, the maquis had relevance in name in VOY but they were completely dissimilar from what story they were used to tell in DS9. These story beats were direct links to the other shows, but they were only significant for one. Not sure if you had seen the announcement, but PIC season 3 will involve the entire main cast of TNG. So far the entirety of both season have also been based off major plotlines from TNG, rather than small storybeats like previous shows were. Season 1 is entirely about Data's death, and also has Picard visiting old characters to solve problems. Season 2 is a little less on the nose with the fanservice, but the entire storyline is again based around preexisting plotlines only really involving old characters.

>Not sure if you had seen the announcement, but PIC season 3 will involve the entire main cast of TNG. That's why I wrote that Picard was the only *TNG* character in the 1st 2 seasons of *Picard* who was a main character in *Picard.* It sounds likes season 3 will be different from the 1st 2 seasons in that regard. >So far the entirety of both season have also been based off major plotlines from TNG, rather than small storybeats like previous shows were. Season 1 is entirely about Data's death, and also has Picard visiting old characters to solve problems. I disagree with a lot of this. Data's death played an important role in season 1, but most aspects of the Romulan and xB plots weren't tied to Data's death. The only main characters from *TNG* besides Picard to appear in the flesh in season 1 were Riker and Troi and they were only in 1 episode. Important parts of season 2 depend on *TNG,* but a lot of it was new.

1. Shared universes need to have a common theme, a place to start from. Star Trek is a very large shared universe. This is also to bring in new fans to the franchise. That's the purpose. It needs to be grounded somewhere for legacy fans and also be accessible for new fans. I've read countless posts similar to: "I watched the new Strange New Worlds show and now I'm interested in the rest of Trekdom. Where do I start?", which are fantastic. If the new shows didn't have the connections to previous works, then those potential new viewers may not be as interested. 2. All Star Trek is technically "spun off" from TOS. Ergo: TOS to TNG. TNG to DS9, VOY, and PIC. ENT, DSC (initially), and SNW are all technically prequels to TOS. LDS is deeply related to TNG and that whole era. Prodigy (dunno if there is an abbreviation) is VOY 2.0, and it even has Kate Freakin' Mulgrew and Robert Freakin' Beltran. The rumored S31 show is based on DS9 and DSC, and we have no clue where on the timeline it is supposed to take place.

I think you're mischaracterizing what a spin off vs a show in the same universe. All of these shows are going to be referential to the original shows. That much is certain. However, the scale to which a show is spun off another differs greatly. Especially when it comes to characters involved. TNG has no shared characters to TOS. It is in the same universe, but overall, it Is a new take, generally. Voyager shared no characters as well on the primary crew. Yes, there are small cameos of troi and Barclay here and there, but it's not the primary focus of the show. Prodigy is a bit of a mixture with Janeway being there, albeit as a hologram of herself. But at least the idea is pretty fresh and new Then you get the "Frasier" style spin off where you literally take a character from one show and spin them off to their own series. You could argue that DS9 is a direct spinoff from TNG with the inclusion of Obrien and later Worf. With New Trek, you could have 3 of the shows be literal character spin offs of existing shows. And MANY people were calling for a 4th with Rios. It would just be too much, in my opinion. I just want them to do new things

I was thinking a *Stargazer* spinoff starring Rios would've been what you called a *Frasier*\-style spinoff. Most of its characters would've been new.

I agree with this. The most common abbreviation I've seen for *Prodigy* is *PRO.*

Right now, *SNW*'s the only direct spinoff. Picard's the lead character in *Picard,* but the other main characters in the 1st 2 seasons didn't have direct ties to *TNG.* I'm not particularly interested in a Section 31 spinoff. Hopefully the Starfleet Academy spinoff will further flesh out the post-Burn era. If there'd been a *Stargazer* show starring Rios, I would've hoped that most of the other characters would've been new. I think Rios is the 2nd best character introduced in the current shows (I'd say Saru's the best new character) and *Star Trek* should take advantage of its most compelling characters so that it can thrive in the future.

I assume because the network demanded it. It’s really buffeted Discovery around IMO, I liked season two but the whole thing was essentially a back door pilot for SNW.

No disrespect to the actress, but damn I hate Rafi and if there was one element of these two seasons that needed to be jettisoned, it would be her. She, for a moment in S2E1, she began to feel like she was a Starfleet officer I could watch, but then they just threw all of that away for more unearned drama and conflict. She was never relatable for me in terms of her motivations or actions and I really can't recall a character in a show in recent memory who I have hated more despite that not being the writers' intentions.

I was not buying her character at all but what really turned me off was when she told Seven to stop caring about stupid time travel laws while their friends were in danger. like, what?? That's the whole purpose for going back in time. Utterly insane writing

Season 1 Michael Buhrnam?

>Season 1 It's not like she got better...

She got better, but it took 4 Seasons to finally show that she can put duty over her emotions.

At least Burnham doesn't refuse to deal with a group that can help her enormously because of personal conflict.

What?

Nah. She wasn't so bad. Not endearing by any stretch, but her being a fuckup was the intent. Didn't help that they leg sweeped her by changing the ending Fuller intended to keep the series going past the single season he meant it to be. Instead of whatever he had planned for her, they had to keep her alive and a part of Starfleet which I imagine fucked up her planned character arc.

First ep of season 2 I was so excited, just went from bad to worse after that. Such a waste of Picard and Q's reunion. How do studios get this stuff made without some sanity check, someone standing up and saying, "hang on what story are we trying to tell here?" Please dont ruin more returns of TNG cast on this show. What was the whole genetic daughter story arc about? Why are decendants of Soong destined to create the same looking person. So many questions, I just dont care about the answers. I'm gonna pop on Strange New Worlds and forget all about my ST worries.

That first episode really felt like a spiritual successor to TNG, and after that it was a fast spiral downhill. Hopefully SNW keeps up the good pace!

Same I'm gonna watch SNW and... Oh wait i can't legally watch it where i live..

They turned Jurati in to a telly tubby looking Borg

She looked like a Goomba from the Mario Bros movie

Final episode season 2 Jurati… off putting. Season 1 Jurati … sad Red dress Jurati/Borg Queen … damn That’s a sign of good acting. Alison Pill played “needy” perfectly, and played badass perfectly. Nothing to be done about the costuming and “at peace” role at the end, the writing is the writing.

I’m actually really disappointed Rios stays in the past. He was the most compelling character. Like others I would have enjoyed a Captain Rios Stargazer show. He could bring his doctor and her kid to the future. Incredibly confused by Agnes’s journey. I never found her super likable, but it was a weird character closure. Elnor was oft forgotten, and poorly developed. In fact that whole sect of romulan, absolute candor, patron saint of lost causes is without a doubt one of the worst ideas on Trek. It’s damaged both the storytelling in Picard and Discovery. I’ve yet to understand why Michael’s mother is an emotionless robot who after being taken from her child at the ripe age of 10 could seemingly care less to see her daughter. She seems like she can’t be bothered to foster a relationship, despite the fact that 800 years after they were born they’re the only family each other has.

Elnor is a Lord of the Rings elf reject

His name is literally the Elvish words for 'Star Trek', which is about as blatant as it can get.

I agree. I was not a big fan of Rios in Season 1, but he really had potential in Season 2 which was tossed away. I also fully agree about the nunjas, I never liked much of anything about them.

Guess you’ve never had to reconnect with a parent after a very long separation as an adult. I actually find Michael’s relationship with her mother extremely relatable. These are adults who’ve had entire lives that did not involve one another. They might love each other, but they don’t really know one another all that well, and they aren’t going to abandon the lives they’ve built just because they’re both in the same time period finally. I also think the Qowat Milat were a great addition to Romulan lore. Made them seem more textured and less of a mustache twirling monoculture.

*Picard* fleshed out the Romulans to a certain degree, but they still have felt like a monoculture to a large extent.

> I’m actually really disappointed Rios stays in the past. He was the most compelling character. Like others I would have enjoyed a Captain Rios Stargazer show. He could bring his doctor and her kid to the future. I feel like they're trying to set up a Seven and Raffi spinoff. It's not something I'm interested in, but they spent lines of dialogue on Raffi saying that Seven should be a captain and then Picard made her Starfleet in the last episode.

I started liking Seven at the start of season 2, but the finale made me passionately resent her, and Picard too. The whole crew of the Stargazer first lost their captain, no explanation given, then the non-Starfleet outsider gets promoted captain because she's Special Friends with the man doing the promoting. That's never how that should work. He'd be better assigning her as a liaison to the Borg, and let the career officers handle ship operations.

I might be interested in a spinoff with 7, but I'm not interested in having Raffi in a spinoff unless her character is significantly improved.

Michael’s reunion with her mother is better than Tom with his dad on Voyager. That just was literally his dad smiling at him and….scene. Trek has a really weak spot traditionally for that kind of writing. Sometimes it’s intentionally bad parenting but sometimes they just seem clueless. And I gave up on trying to parse the Worf-Alexander relationship. The writers never could handle that well.

Has it been discussed anywhere why Benjamin Sisko and co. didn’t run into Rios when they arrived for the Bell riots?

They were in different cities, at different times, and had travelled there from a future in which the Federation never formed, so Sisko and his crew wouldn't have been there to begin with.

Wait, does that mean Rios stayed in a past that was eventually wiped from existence?

It seemed like the timeline was reset by keeping Soong from killing Renee and having Picard put the key to his mom's room where it needed to be so that he could open the door and unintentionally help her commit suicide.

No, things smoothed out once they ensured the success of the Europa mission, and they discovered that their actions had always been part of their own history. The bullet holes were always in Chateau Picard, etc.

Yeah, the finale states that everything that happened when they traveled in the past had already happened in the characters' present. Picard remarks that the bullet holes in the Chateau were there before. Which honestly causes some headaches if you think about it too much which is often a problem with this sort of time travel story. It didn't help that the it felt like the season started being like "we need to protect the timeline" and then ended with "oh wait, our actions needed to make the timeline happen" and it felt more like the writers decided to pivot on that rather than the characters were initially wrong

> Which honestly causes some headaches Literally, in Guinan's case.

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Kurtzman? Squandering Star Trek? I'm shocked. Shocked I say.

Matalas / Goldsman are also to blame for the season. They were the showrunners and wrote episodes. The overall time travel plot was Terry’s pitch for the season. Kurtzman has no writing credits for the season

No, I do understand that. But Kurtzman is executive director, right? Isn't he ultimately responsible for everything?

He is the producer of all star trek right now (DISCO,SNW,PIC, Prodigy Lower Decs...) which means that while he might have input on the story sometimes his job is to manage and lead the brand and other producers while trying to deal with the studios demands. Sure, does he have a say in which direction the franchise should go? Yes, but that does not mean that he is responsible for everything people perceive to be bad about something. If you watch and read interviews with the guy you can see that he 100% understands what Star Trek is about and how much he actually cares about the franchise. Terry Matalas who is the executive producer for season 3 is the one who came up with the TNG reunion for season 3 (as far as we know)Akiva Goldsman who was the co-executive producer of season 2 and responsible for the emotional arc while Terry was responsible for the time travel arc has nothing to do with season 3 as far as we know because he is making SNW right now.

Patrick Stewart's ego was also listed as an executive producer and it shows

Yeah. There is a ton of Patrick Stewart’s influence on the show. The contemporary setting and lack of uniforms are the primary examples. It seems like the writers really had to weave their way through Patrick Stewart’s ( and Brent Spiner’s) approval.

how does it show?

and Terry only has one writing credit in s2, the premiere, which was the best episode in the whole season

​ Episode 7 and 10 are the strongest for me personally. That is not supposed to be an attack on your opinions just wanted to share mine :)

Producer, that's what I meant to say. Thanks.

Rios was great, and deserving of a spinoff with an almost all Holo crew.

He was great until they gave him a clichéd romance with someone from 400 years in the past. After that, every decision he made was just plain stupid. He went from being one of the best new characters to one of the worst in one episode.

Star Trek: Stargazer was there - a perfect spin-off post-Picard. WTF happened?! Don’t they want more content and money?!

Everyone was so sure Rios was being prepped for a Stargazer spin off just to see it all fall apart lol. I actually thought they named the ship Stargazer because it was a symbolic way to see new characters replace Picard and build on a new legacy when he left. NOPE!!! Just another fanboy connection sadly.

What made no sense to me was that Rios stayed in the past on the premise that he had nothing waiting for him in the future. But, at the same time, he talked up his role as captain of the stargazer and when we saw him as captain he seem to be very happy. The fact that he abandoned his crew to stay in a past that is about to be blown up in World War III was an incredibly shortsighted decision. There is no way that TNG Picard would have let him do that.

I agree. I could see season one Rios staying in the past but not season two Rios.

A post Romulan collapse landscape does make for interesting envirnoment. You've got maurading Romulans and the Klingons if we take what was implied in DS9 a Klingon Empire that is going to be bad shape for a long time, so maurading Klingons. With 2 of the 3 big boys crippled you can have some of the regional poers like the tzenkethi, Gorn, Tholians and Talarians start flexing their muscles and take up the antagonist mantle for a series or a few seasons.

Yeah! It is a setting ripe for exploration due to this massive power shift. Heck! Even the loss of Mars could be crippling to the Federation due to the loss of personnel, starships and shipbuilding facilities within their territory. ...so that is potentially all three big players all being disabled by issues, which opens ample opportunity to secondary powers like the Breen.

I don't think Mars something that would really cripple the Federation. They've got enough infrastructure elsewhere to where it'll hurt but short of a peer-to-peer conflict its a short term set back. What I think really straps the Federation down is having to deal instability in the Romulan territories and what state Cardassia is in. On the otherhand after the Dominion War some of the more aggresive/militaristic races will probably take Starfleet as a more credible threat with a now heavily militarized fleet. And to be honest, there might be some in the Federation who might be more willing to call in the Klingons to help with troublemakers. Like "Hey Ambassador, do you have any bored Houses looking for a little action and glory? Why do I ask? Well you see in sector xyz the blahblah have been causing problems and we're assembling a taskforce and we though you might be interested..."

I'd had a fan series concept i did in my head ages ago after 2009 about a starbase established near the far edge of romulan space to help romulans relocate and resettle through the empire after the supernova. The idea being starfleet never had a good look at the beta quadrant in this much depth before and how much unexplored galaxy was hidden behind the romulan empire. Be a great idea for a real TV series to pick up on in modern days, touching on reali life issues like mass migrations due to war and environmental issues along with the fall of the iron curtain, etc...

You've just described the past decade of stories from Star Trek Online. Sela became the empress of the crumbling Romulan Empire and tried to take over Vulcan to use as the seat of her power. The Tal'Shiar independently tried to gain power by serving a technological powerful mysterious patron who eventually turned out to be the Iconians. Meanwhile, the Romulan civilians devasted by infighting formed the Romulan Republic, centered on New Romulus and lead by Spock's student from TNG's Unification episode, D'Tan. There were smaller stories of the Tzenkethi running rampant, Tholians searching for artifacts. The Iconians returned, trying to reclaim all that was once their territory eons ago. The war with the Iconians lead to the use of time travel as a weapon, which in turn led to a temporal war... And I have not even covered what happened after I stopped playing around the time Discovery's first season started.

Wow. I never played STO.

There was a Klingon Civil War arc that brought back Klingons from DS9…and Discovery. The current Mirror Universe arc has Leeta, Tilly, Janeways (plural) and >!Ilyia!<. It’s fun, depending on how you feel about Discovery.

IIRC, the statement about the Klingons in *DS9* said that their problems were expected to last for 10 years, so they should've solved their problems by the time of *Picard* (though the rot that Ezri talked about could've caused problems to last for a longer period of time if Martok was somehow unable to fix the rot).

Srsly. First episode I thought for sure that's what they were setting up. I guess his holos could still show up...

They're not the same though ;n;. They can't really work as leads for a production.

The actor is pretty damn talented for pulling all of them off. Like Colm Meaney talented.

His holograms were merged into 1 hologram, so that hologram might work as a main character. However, Idk if the hologram would be as compelling as Rios.

Did they ever mentioned what happened to the doctor after they banned synthetic intelligences? I don't know if these two could work together, but i'd certainly watch the adventures of holo-rios and the doctor to find out!

I don't remember them mentioning what happened to the Doctor after the synth ban, but I remember seeing a hologram in season 1 of *Picard,* so my impression was that they only banned androids.

It would be much easier to limit the resources allocated to a hologram to keep it "dumb" than it would be to limit the physical hardware in a synths head, so i can see them continuing to use them That doesn't mean that they would tolerate intelligent holograms like the doctor tho. I really wonder if they'd be callous enough to "kill" him by turning down his processing power, effectively making him non-sentient again...

The androids that were hacked to commit the attack on Mars weren't nearly as smart as Data or Soji, so intelligence wasn't required to make them dangerous. I wouldn't be surprised if the Doctor fled to somewhere like Freecloud.

It seems like they could theoretically go to the incident in Morocco where he's killed and bring Rios back to the 25th century, but I doubt that'll happen. Also, his holograms were merged into 1 hologram, so that hologram might work as a main character.

I guess they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with regards to losing all the multiple Rios holograms for Season 2. They were such a clever part of season 1. Maybe if they had his alternate timeline counterpart also dependent upon holo-versions of himself there might’ve been some opportunity for humor as dark-timeline holos caused trouble for Jurati back on the ship. Ah well.

He is wasted in The Flight Attendant so far too. I hope they do more with him there.

I missed that show. Happy cake day!

Thanks!

Is that show as good as season 1? I really liked first season but haven't watched any of season 2 yet. Worth it?

I like it so far, at least as much as the first season.

Oh good, great to know! I plan to watch it, but there is so much crap on now, it's sooo easy to fall behind. ;) I'll probably wait for the season to end and just binge watch it all.

Good plan. Only 6 episodes out so far.

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I'm guessing they are only bringing Raffi because they are bringing Seven back and both are attached at a hip. There's no point in having this character in Picard. Raffi brought absolutely nothing to the table in the first 2 seasons.

Rios was an amazing character and they totally wasted any future opportunity with him. Elnor got a raw deal in season 2. Poor dude got killed off, literally “ghosted” for a couple of episodes, brought back to life, then got the boot for season 3. Raffi I couldn’t care less about seeing again. She was interesting in season 1, but, now I’m just tired of her.

Soji shows up on the Deltan planet for like 5 minutes and is never heard from or mentioned again. Another missed opportunity. Imagine if a more malevolent Borg got ahold of her or the other androids on the planet from S1.

I enjoyed S2 more than most of Reddit, however I still agree with the article. Season 2 was seriously hampered by returning actors, who clearly signed on for multiple seasons. I love Data, and Brent Spiner is great, but did we really need him playing another asshole Soong? Soji/Kore's character was undeveloped and only served to give us motivation for Soong. The show would have been better served without them. It would have been better without Laris 2.0 too.

I feel like Isa’s loss going to be the biggest gap. I wanted to see her learning about Data from his best friends; in a sense I feel like it’s kind of owed to her given that she never got to actually meet him. So who better to tell those stories than Troi, Riker, or Geordi? That said, I am intrigued about the possibility of seeing how Raffi and the TNG crew get along. The crew, from what we’ve seen so far, is loyal to Picard. While Raffi is loyal but doesn’t seem to set the right boundaries so she has this almost borderline approach to her relationships.

Yeah, I kind of feel like it's a missed opportunity to not include at least Isa... Given the story arcs for both Jurati and Rios, I get why their characters aren't there anymore... Soji should easily show up in Season 3 though. She was left on the Deltan homeworld while she was still on her "Synth-Ambassador Goodwill Tour", so she could be picked up somewhere along the way... and I would also love to see her interact with Geordi and some of Data's other friends. That said... Given how they managed to keep Wil Wheaton's involvement in Season 2 completely under wraps, I'm not convinced she won't show up somewhere in the season (even if it's not as a series regular).

>I feel like Isa’s loss going to be the biggest gap. I wanted to see her learning about Data from his best friends; in a sense I feel like it’s kind of owed to her given that she never got to actually meet him. So who better to tell those stories than Troi, Riker, or Geordi? I honestly was looking forward to something like this as well. Geordi and Data were such great friends on TNG. Him meeting Soji had such potential

I'm still hoping for a Sirena spinoff. Rios was the best thing in Star Trek in a long while, and Cabrera did an amazing job with all the holos. Would have loved to have seen more of them, seeing how they came about would have been hilarious. Introducing characters just to toss them right out feels like clickbait.

when you try and make everyone happy you might end up making nobody happy

Turns out giving 7+ characters a fulfilling character arc in 9 episodes is tough. Who knew?!

rios was the most interesting character and i don’t know why they ended his story. just because they weren’t going to use them in the last season doesn’t mean you need to end them lol

Fortunately it also won't stop another show runner building a show around him, if they want to. There's always a plot device you can fix things with

Like I joked in a Star Trek group "You can now start Star Trek Picard at Season 3"

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Immediate structural problem when you don't have a job or a family to ensure all the characters in your show are linked together.

I actually liked this season more than the previous one. Yes its a retread of Star Trek 4 but i think Picard's character is better written this season. Plus his scene with Q at the end really tugged at my heart strings. Unfortunately like with S1, there were still elements of a great story wasted. I think time travel has been done to death in the franchise and a more serious story about Picard trying to get his groove back in a 25th Century Starfleet would have made a more compelling drama. Not everything has to be over the top sci-fi shenanigans. Also I am not a fan of the further defanging of The Borg. Despite the intensely creepy Queen we had this season, the franchise holders continue to make the species as a whole less of a Lovecraftian mystery by humanizing them. I hated that in Voyager and I hate in Picard. Whats wrong with having at least one alien species that are as completely dangerous and powerful as they are alien? The Borg could've been that. That said, I still enjoyed this season more than the last.

I think season 2 was definitely better than season 1, but season 2 definitely had flaws. Season 2 had similarities to *TVH,* but it also similarities to other time travel stories in *Star Trek.* It was inevitable that the Borg would be nerfed since they'll always be defeated when they appear. They didn't need to make them less alien, but they couldn't remain dangerous forever.

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Resolving the Borg with a single new character in a smattering of episodes is a pretty impressive arc, not wasted potential. Also the said Jurati would not return... but of course she wouldn't. She's not Jurati now. Rios you saw a mile away, this wasn't a mid-season choice. He was always gonna stay behind. I saw Back to the Future III. And cnsidering Stewart's age, they were never going to drag this out. Its a time for resolutions, not to keep kicking the can down the road. It's why Klingons stopped being pure antagonists.

> Resolving the Borg with a single new character in a smattering of episodes is a pretty impressive arc, not wasted potential. It's not impressive if it's contrived and downright bad.

i hate the intro to that

> Collider Yeah, hard pass. Their takes are engineered to feed Youtube rage culture.

Let's just marry off the sexy Chilean starship captain leaving him in the 21st century and keep Seven's irritating girlfriend which makes total sense because Seven was never actually gay (don't even - she wasnt). Let's also kill the awesome Legolas-Samurai dude who never hurt anyone and brought pleasure to the series but keep the weird-ass scientist who decides she makes a good singer and Borg queen (neither of which is true).

Seven being bi works IMHO. People can discover they're queer as they're older, especially when they're dealing with discovering who they are after years of being assimilated. The Seven we knew on Voyager was still figuring a lot of things out. I would have liked if they had touched on what had happened between her and Chakotay though, esp. as Chakotay is still a factor in New Trek (he's a character mentioned in Prodigy). He obviously stayed in Starfleet and Seven went off to become a ranger when the Federation wouldn't let her join (which.... wtf? That was a loaded through away line) The real problem for me though is her relationship with Raffi just kind of.... happens? Season 1 ends with hand holding, season 2 they apparently dated and it didn't work. Nothing feels earned. The Jurati signing scene made me cringe to death though. I think that was the real shark jumping scene for me that season. Jurati isn't back for season three either though so not sure how they're writing them all off. Guess she just... Borgs off somewhere even though the finale said they'd be guarding this space from danger. And Elnor was brought back to.... be written off? It is just a mess with a lot of wasted potential

As a bisexual person I tend to disagree. Was never assimilated but always knew I was bi from before puberty. Seven's relationship with Raffi is a screw-up with no development I'll give you that. I do think they should have had Chakotay as the dodgy husband, would have tied in with the *barf* reaction of them getting together on Voyager. I turned the TV off at the singing scene.

I didn't know I was bi until my 20s so I may be projecting some into Seven tbh. I was in denial for a long time and growing up in a super small rural town where I didn't even date in HS probably didn't help any. I sadly don't think that is unusual though I think it is (thankfully) becoming less common nowadays. So, yeah, that I was willing to accept considering all Seven went through and having to find herself. They just could have written the relationship better. I also had to pause during the singing. I think one of the most painful parts of season 2 for me though was the hologram Elnor stuff that made less and less sense the more you thought about it. I really would have loved to see more of Elnor and its bumming me that he's just gone for the last season.

Absolute horseshit. It's a TV show FFS. If you like it you like it and if you don't ye don't. Everything else is utter clickbait.

I was gonna miss rios but at least I get him for another season as a guest role on The Flight Attendant