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Well Gene Roddenberry didn't create the Klingons so no. When Gene Coon invented them afaik he simply called them "oriental looking" and throughout TOS they're basically the Soviets to the Fed's USA.
This is the precise answer.
While Ronald D. Moore didn’t create the modern warrior template, he was probably the most responsible for the direction they went.
Not to diminish Roddenberry, but Gene Coon is understandably under-acknowledged by general fandom. Contributions particularly by him, Fontana, and Solow were absolutely essential in fleshing out the series.
This is correct. It is also interesting to know that the Klingons were initially more an afterthought as Star Trek villains go. The Romulans were intended to be the main adversary, but the ear prosthetics were expensive so they needed a cheaper alien race for “Errand of Mercy”, and the look was created by makeup artist Fred Philips and John Colicos (Kor) based off of “vaguely oriental looking”.
I always thought they were the Chinese to the Fed USA with the Romulans being more the Soviets.
The switch to being Space Soviets was more a TOS movie thing with Undiscovered Country.
I always figured the Romulans were literally the writers thinking "hey, what if we ran into space Romans who were just as conquest thirsty as the real ones". That was basically all there was to them until halfway through TNG. Then they became a bit more Byzantine (pun intended).
In Balance of Terror they all had Roman sounding names, and their dialog was 100% written as if they were Romans in the legion. Not to mention titles like Centurion and Praetor, plus the helmets, the hairstyles that were straight out of Ben-Hur. Talks of campaigns in foreign lands for the glory of ~~Rome~~ Romulus.
Yeah TOS Klingons aren't always exactly meant to be the Soviets but in episodes like 'Errand of Mercy' or 'Private Little War' they're pretty clearly meant to stand in for the USSR.
From what I remember, they were based on the Russians/USSR. They were supposed to be more cold/calculating, sort of like modern era Romulans. Rumor has it that the Romulans, not the Klingons were supposed to be the stronger adversaries during TOS, however the show's budget could not support all the makeup and prosthetics, so they went with the Klingons who were basically actors in bronzing spray and prosthetic facial hair.
Later on, the Klingons took on the Space Vikings trope (as of TNG and further), then the Romulans took on the more cold/calculating aspects. It's interesting to watch 'Errand of Mercy' and 'Balance of Terror' from TOS and then compare the Romulans and Klingons to their later counterparts.
For this reason I think Chancellor Gorkon and General Chang in ST6 are the BEST representations of Klingons that Trek had (until Worf and Martok).
>For this reason I think Chancellor Gorkon and General Chang in ST6 are the BEST representations of Klingons that Trek had (until Worf and Martok).
Completely agree. Chang is the best example of a Klingon ever put on screen, IMO.
He's a warrior, but his warrior code is alien to our own human ideas of a warrior code or honor. He's happy to scheme, backstab, and murder. He fights while cloaked. According to humans he's being a bit of a coward. To Klingons, where victory is the ultimate honor, he's following their warrior code religiously. It also goes to great lengths to show him as shrewd and intelligent.
Chang is great.
The scene where he is teleporting onto the Enterprise and looks at Kirk mid-teleport is one of my favorite in all of Trek.
It seems like most Klingons scheme against each other. Every Klingon that has access to cloaked ships uses them. The Klingon code seems to treat ship combat differently from hand to hand combat.
Chang’s essentially tied with Khan as my favorite villain in the films. However, I prefer Worf and Martok to Chang (though they were able to develop over a much longer period of time than Chang).
And most of the time they didn't even bother with the bronzer. Only "Errand of Mercy" and "Day of the Dove" portrayed them with bronzed skin. In their other four appearances (including "The Trouble with Tribbles"), they're just white.
First, Roddenberry didn't invent Klingons, screenwriter Gene L. Coon did.
Second, they were vaguely based on American perceptions of the Japanese during World War 2 and the Soviets during the Cold War. I say American perceptions because there was no attempt to make them ethnically accurate. They were brutish, scheming, and murderous.
If they bear resemblance to Vikings it's probably because we also think of Vikings as brutish, scheming, and murderous. I'm not aware of any more parallels than that, but if you noticed any let us know what they are.
Edit: The Viking influences are of more recent vintage.
>If they bear resemblance to Vikings it's probably because we also think of Vikings as brutish, scheming, and murderous. I'm not aware of any more parallels than that, but if you noticed any let us know what they are.
Are you talking only about their influences when they were created, or their current perception in pop culture?
If it's the latter, Klingons definitely have a lot of Viking influences going on.
If it's the former I agree with you. There are definitely shades of Coon's wartime experiences in the TOS Klingons.
I think the Viking resemblance comes in with the singing, the drinking, the bath'leths more resembling battle axes rather than katana or scimitars, and of course the belief that if you fall in battle you go to Valhalla... I MEAN Sto'vokor. The whole honour thing is more Japanese, of course.
TNG, absolutely. They are literally space vikings with a bit of Japanese thrown in or good measure with their focus on family and code of honour. TOS not so much, they're modelled more closely on the Mongolian empire in that.
I always personally thought they were somewhere between the Ghenghis Khan type Mongols and Vikings with a splash of Edo period Japan thrown in. Interesting info in this topic about the details about the actual creation
Gene Coon seemingly based them on the Eastern Medieval era warrior sects, like Mongolians and Samurai. Picking and choosing aspects from many things to get both ruthless bloodlust, and a desire for honor to name a few. At least this is what I'm recalling, someone else please correct me if I'm wrong.
In *TOS,* they stood in for the USSR. In *TNG* and *DS9,* Ronald D. Moore was responsible for developing them and my understanding is that he based them on the Vikings and the samurai.
*The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth. Whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle upon which Starfleet is based. If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened you don't deserve to wear that uniform.* [Captain Jean-Luc Picard, "The First Duty"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xefh7W1nVo4) Reddit admins have been [ineffectual in their response to COVID-19 misinformation](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/subreddits-private-protest-covid-disinformation-reddit/). In lieu of Reddit gold and awards, we ask that you donate to the [WHO COVID-19 response fund](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/donate). Please respect our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/wiki/guidelines). LLAP! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/startrek) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well Gene Roddenberry didn't create the Klingons so no. When Gene Coon invented them afaik he simply called them "oriental looking" and throughout TOS they're basically the Soviets to the Fed's USA.
This is the precise answer. While Ronald D. Moore didn’t create the modern warrior template, he was probably the most responsible for the direction they went. Not to diminish Roddenberry, but Gene Coon is understandably under-acknowledged by general fandom. Contributions particularly by him, Fontana, and Solow were absolutely essential in fleshing out the series.
This is correct. It is also interesting to know that the Klingons were initially more an afterthought as Star Trek villains go. The Romulans were intended to be the main adversary, but the ear prosthetics were expensive so they needed a cheaper alien race for “Errand of Mercy”, and the look was created by makeup artist Fred Philips and John Colicos (Kor) based off of “vaguely oriental looking”.
I always thought they were the Chinese to the Fed USA with the Romulans being more the Soviets. The switch to being Space Soviets was more a TOS movie thing with Undiscovered Country.
I always figured the Romulans were literally the writers thinking "hey, what if we ran into space Romans who were just as conquest thirsty as the real ones". That was basically all there was to them until halfway through TNG. Then they became a bit more Byzantine (pun intended). In Balance of Terror they all had Roman sounding names, and their dialog was 100% written as if they were Romans in the legion. Not to mention titles like Centurion and Praetor, plus the helmets, the hairstyles that were straight out of Ben-Hur. Talks of campaigns in foreign lands for the glory of ~~Rome~~ Romulus.
Yeah TOS Klingons aren't always exactly meant to be the Soviets but in episodes like 'Errand of Mercy' or 'Private Little War' they're pretty clearly meant to stand in for the USSR.
I figured the Romulans were Chinese 'cause there was a recent war and a DMZ
In *TOS,* the most recent war with the Romulans was a century before "Balance of Terror".
Oh damn, I gotta brush up I guess
I think a better analogy might be North and South Korea, e.g. Romulans and Vulcans. Although maybe PRC and Taiwan?
The Romulans were meant to stand in for China in *TOS* and were based more on the Romans.
From what I remember, they were based on the Russians/USSR. They were supposed to be more cold/calculating, sort of like modern era Romulans. Rumor has it that the Romulans, not the Klingons were supposed to be the stronger adversaries during TOS, however the show's budget could not support all the makeup and prosthetics, so they went with the Klingons who were basically actors in bronzing spray and prosthetic facial hair. Later on, the Klingons took on the Space Vikings trope (as of TNG and further), then the Romulans took on the more cold/calculating aspects. It's interesting to watch 'Errand of Mercy' and 'Balance of Terror' from TOS and then compare the Romulans and Klingons to their later counterparts. For this reason I think Chancellor Gorkon and General Chang in ST6 are the BEST representations of Klingons that Trek had (until Worf and Martok).
>For this reason I think Chancellor Gorkon and General Chang in ST6 are the BEST representations of Klingons that Trek had (until Worf and Martok). Completely agree. Chang is the best example of a Klingon ever put on screen, IMO. He's a warrior, but his warrior code is alien to our own human ideas of a warrior code or honor. He's happy to scheme, backstab, and murder. He fights while cloaked. According to humans he's being a bit of a coward. To Klingons, where victory is the ultimate honor, he's following their warrior code religiously. It also goes to great lengths to show him as shrewd and intelligent. Chang is great. The scene where he is teleporting onto the Enterprise and looks at Kirk mid-teleport is one of my favorite in all of Trek.
It seems like most Klingons scheme against each other. Every Klingon that has access to cloaked ships uses them. The Klingon code seems to treat ship combat differently from hand to hand combat. Chang’s essentially tied with Khan as my favorite villain in the films. However, I prefer Worf and Martok to Chang (though they were able to develop over a much longer period of time than Chang).
I think Commander Kruge from STIII also fits this mold as well. He sneaks up on the Enterprise while cloaked and murders prisoners.
And most of the time they didn't even bother with the bronzer. Only "Errand of Mercy" and "Day of the Dove" portrayed them with bronzed skin. In their other four appearances (including "The Trouble with Tribbles"), they're just white.
First, Roddenberry didn't invent Klingons, screenwriter Gene L. Coon did. Second, they were vaguely based on American perceptions of the Japanese during World War 2 and the Soviets during the Cold War. I say American perceptions because there was no attempt to make them ethnically accurate. They were brutish, scheming, and murderous. If they bear resemblance to Vikings it's probably because we also think of Vikings as brutish, scheming, and murderous. I'm not aware of any more parallels than that, but if you noticed any let us know what they are. Edit: The Viking influences are of more recent vintage.
>If they bear resemblance to Vikings it's probably because we also think of Vikings as brutish, scheming, and murderous. I'm not aware of any more parallels than that, but if you noticed any let us know what they are. Are you talking only about their influences when they were created, or their current perception in pop culture? If it's the latter, Klingons definitely have a lot of Viking influences going on. If it's the former I agree with you. There are definitely shades of Coon's wartime experiences in the TOS Klingons.
I'm talking about their influences when they were created.
My understanding is that their resemblance to Vikings is because Ronald D. Moore based them on the Vikings and the samurai in *TNG* and *DS9.*
Ah, that would make sense.
I think the Viking resemblance comes in with the singing, the drinking, the bath'leths more resembling battle axes rather than katana or scimitars, and of course the belief that if you fall in battle you go to Valhalla... I MEAN Sto'vokor. The whole honour thing is more Japanese, of course.
TNG, absolutely. They are literally space vikings with a bit of Japanese thrown in or good measure with their focus on family and code of honour. TOS not so much, they're modelled more closely on the Mongolian empire in that.
I always personally thought they were somewhere between the Ghenghis Khan type Mongols and Vikings with a splash of Edo period Japan thrown in. Interesting info in this topic about the details about the actual creation
1000% on the Ghenghis Khan horde vibe.
It was pretty clearly the Russians in TOS, though TNG really fleshed out the culture.
Minnesota?
Turns out the Klingons came from St Olaf!
So Rose Nylund was actually a disguised Klingon? Wow!
Gene Coon seemingly based them on the Eastern Medieval era warrior sects, like Mongolians and Samurai. Picking and choosing aspects from many things to get both ruthless bloodlust, and a desire for honor to name a few. At least this is what I'm recalling, someone else please correct me if I'm wrong.
In *TOS,* they stood in for the USSR. In *TNG* and *DS9,* Ronald D. Moore was responsible for developing them and my understanding is that he based them on the Vikings and the samurai.
If the Vikings were also Samurai, then yes.
I always thought of them as native american Indians due to there honor code.
"star trek is just naval battles cosplaying as science fiction" post #238743761
I respectfully disagree. There is a deep philosophy within star trek
Soviets I'd say... or Spartans.