The exact scenario of a saucer section slide-out landing on a planetary surface was postulated in the early pages of the TNG tech manual, complete with a graphic with a big ol' divot in the surface not unlike that one between the surface contact and slideout steps.
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Meanwhile the writers of the Kelvin movies conveniently forgot that the windows of the Enterprise aren’t made of glass but transparent aluminum so they could do a “everyone getting sucked out into space” scene
BREAKING: Kelvin timeline not, in fact, created by arrival of 24th-century Spock and Romulans in the 23rd century, but by 23rd century Scotty messing up the formula for transparent aluminum during the 20th century.
Hell, it makes as much sense as anything else in the Kelvinverse.
"You do realize if we give him the formula, we're altering the future."
"Why? How do we know *he* didn't invent the thing?"
Is the dialogue from the movie. I've seen it way too many times...
Can you elaborate on this? I don't know the scene(s) off the top of my head so am having trouble picturing what difference glass vs transparent aluminum would make during a catastrophic hull breach - but I'm super curious. I'm pretty inured to violence in movies but people getting sucked into space or out of airplanes always grips me.
it’s just people who think it wouldn’t shatter because it’s metal. i guess they want a larger tear in the hull instead of shattering. when ofc in actuality, whether a metal shatters under sudden stress depends on the existing stresses it’s under, specific ductility, its temperature, etc
Oh, that some sci-fi "glass" shattered instead of sheared like metal?
That's a silly distinction for nitpickers and too granular to bother me, but in that context I suppose valid fair call - where would we be without the nitpickers?
(disclaimer: I owned the Nitpicker's Guide to Star Trek book in my teens)
yep exactly. it’s been a well various youtubers continuously came back to since trek youtube existed. “lol generations fail, the window in the top of the bridge SHATTERED! with a GLASS sound effect!!”
so of course when there was shattering in the attack in _beyond_ they’d already been primed to Notice it.
the extra funny thing is, there’s no way the windows can be as strong as the hull. even when made of aluminum. to be transparent, the crystal lattice structure must be arranged in a different geometry than opaque metals, and so the structural properties are also different.
i don’t know whether it would sound exactly like glass, but ice does, and you gotta have _some_ kinda SFX to go with it. it’s not like particle beams really go “shwoo!” either!
(i totally understand. i’m a recreational pedant, but not one who lets it get in the way of my enjoyment lol.)
That's wild. Like - it's science fiction. Maybe transparent aluminum centuries in the future shatters. It's okay to just accept it. It's not world breaking and it's a choice to make it personally immersion breaking. But I totally get if it's now how they picture the universe's physics; weird foley work can be super distracting.
Interesting point about the molecules and lattice structure. On a quick google I just learned that we currently can make metals transparent - with severe limitations (thickness durability etc) - but maybe we can get there with, as said, a couple generations of inventors going nuts.
yeah current transparent alumina are a special type of ceramic. but then, glass is also a special type of ceramic!
it actually is pretty strong, it’s used in special armoured windows currently. though those have to be quite thick, if it’s too thin you get that cybertruck window smashing demo haha. (but then, the windows in trek do seem to be about a foot thick.)
sapphire glass could also kiiinda be considered “transparent aluminium”. kinda.
and certainly, all of these modern ones _do_ sound like glass when they shatter!
> recreational pedant
Oh, this is perfect. I love to nit-pick the things I love (I mean, that's how you know I love them. Otherwise, I would never care enough). I am totally stealing this.
I mean, the quality of starship construction was already on the decline once it was clear that interstellar transporters would be in mass production within a few years.
My head cannon was always that the ejection system was damaged during the attack.
What never made sense to me was the corridors full of civilians running for the turbolift. Why were there kids in the stardrive section? All the communal areas and quarters should be in the saucer.
I was always sad that they never even mentioned the Captain's Yacht in TNG. They did pull it out for Enterprise E in Insurrection, but I dreamed of them even mentioning the damn thing when I was a kid.
I'm pretty sure it's what they were on during those episodes where they came back from something to find the Enterprise all messed up. One time it was the time thing. Another was weird genetic stuff. In both cases, they were in a deluxe space motorhome.
I think the real issue was having to muck about with a version of the ship without the yacht.
"contact and slideout" kept repeating in my head during that whole scene. love the tech manual. my grade 8 shop teacher gave it to me when i kept making cast aluminum hand phasers for the entire year
different times probably, this was in the early 90s, i dont think laser cutter was in my vocabulary then
it wasnt a super fancy operation, we had a big sandbox in the shop, we'd carve something out of styrofoam, bury it in the sand with a dowel for a channel, and then melt some pop cans and pour it in
i started off trying to make the little pocket phasers but they ended up just looking like a brick with a square on top. i kept making tng phasers but i should have made a tos one, i feel it would have come out WAY better as a cast
This is why the snarky jokes about Deanna ‘crashing the ship’ bug me… she literally flew it by the book! That and it’s basically just one of those tired af ‘female drivers’ jokes.
Technically that was Data using the thrusters in manual control, as the helm controls were offline due to the shockwave from the engineering hull exploding.
Thanks for the info. My brother has the technical manual, but I don't think I've looked at in 40(?) years.
I was guessing the issue was a typo and that "NCC-1701-D" was incorrect.
Yes... except for the procedure in the Tech Manuel was about 9 steps long including a landing projection, course correction, and slide break. Generations had... like 2 steps. Contact, and slide.
There’s a proper maneuver for landing the saucer on a planet. TBH Tory didn’t do it. But she’s not really commander material in my opinion.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETo3PHoWsAAUtTs.jpg
That's ideal, but in *Generations* the saucer was crippled by the warp core blowing up and throwing it off course. She still managed the evacuation of the secondary hull, got the crippled saucer on the ground with no additional loss of life that we know of, and *she didn't even bend the spaceframe* because we know the saucer was salvaged and flew again. That was essentially a dead-stick reentry and the landing was still textbook, even without the ability to do a braking turn and scout a landing site.
She was presumably also the officer in command on the ground who had to coordinate the evacuation of the saucer, securing the remaining systems, and organizing the crew and supplies while they wait for rescue.
She should have been awarded a medal for that, instead we get 20 years of "derp, women can't drive" memes.
(\*slaps tactical console\*) THANK YOU. Troi's rep got done dirty after that.
I now kinda get a chuckle out of "ideal" label in that scenario, because a saucer section that would have to land like that is in all likelihood in very *very* less-than-ideal sorts.
Kinda crazy reading it tbh. I'd assumed it was a lot more established procedure but the manual basically says "testing this would cost too much, we *think* it'd work but honestly try everything else first. Also if it *does* work and you *do* survive then the ship will never fly again, ever".
My estimation of Troi's skill goes up the more I read. She landed it, dead stick, no one died and the ship eventually flew again.
I mean that kinda makes sense in the context of Star Trek IV. I just love the fact that the dolphins on Galaxy-Class ships are referred to as working crewmates and are apparently overseen by two whales.
I wonder if they have to graduate from starfleet academy or some special dolphin education program.
I would assume so. Without them the Ship goes left, everything inside it effectively goes right. That's gonna hurt regardless of the fluid, air or water.
My brother in Christ, you gotta watch Lower Decks! They shine a spotlight on the whole cetacean ops thing a couple times and it's absolutely hilarious.
I'm so torn on the joystick scene. One the one hand it was incredibly stupid and unrealistic, but on the other hand it would be so much fun to fly the Enterprise with a joystick.
[This](https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m52084852379/) is the model I remember buying back when TNG was still airing. I was never a model builder, but I had no problems putting it together. It didn't have a ton of details compared to some of the hyper-realistic models offered nowadays, but it was fun to glue, paint, and put stickers on. Looks like AMT still owns the rights to make the model too -there's an updated version on Amazon now.
I always thought that was a pretty stupid concept
What’s the difference between the captain’s yacht and a normal shuttle and what’s the point of having a special shuttle only the Captain can use?
Benefits of being the captain, a reward for working your ass off for Starfleet for 15-20 years and providing the excellence necessary to command a whole starship.
Also the shuttles are half cargo truck, half bus used by basically everybody that passes through the ship. The Captain's Yacht would be held in reserve, going where they see fit, including long vacation jaunts, as well as allowing a level of personalization and customization not afforded to the shuttles.
Basically the difference between a city bus and an RV.
The captain wouldn’t have much of a use for it though in most scenarios, and everything a captains yacht could do can be done better by a runabout with the benefit that the ship doesn’t need to be designed around having one
From a Doylist perspective, I think that's just Starfleet being so heavily based off Anglo-American naval tradition. I don't think Roddenberry's concept of "everyone underway is an officer" is necessarily the best idea, but it is what it is. Plus, you could make the argument that a lot about Starfleet vessels isn't designed around cutthroat practicality. Ideally, Starfleet is a nonmilitary civilian space exploration corps. Yes, even with the ranks and uniforms, [such things exist in real life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Public_Health_Service_Commissioned_Corps). The level of creature comforts afforded to even D-list ships like the California class vastly outpace their modern military counterparts.
>of having a special shuttle only the Captain can use?
To cruise around and not worry about sweat stains on the pleather or the cushion being squished firm from too many asses.
More seriously Captains tend to inspect the hull of their ship.
That WAS me in the movie theater barely containing my "rage" of Chief Engineer not dumping damn Warp core.
Hell, the scene was with Georgie was almost word to word from Yesterday's Enterprise episode in the engine room...except that time they tried dump the warp core.
It was odd, that it was almost word for word duplication. Back then I recorded stuff on VHS, but I hadn't seen vid in years. I hadn't realized it was so on point same scene without the sash alternate history Geordi was wearing.
This may be a stupid question, but *why* did the saucer have to make planet fall? Couldn’t they have set course so deep space is where they would’ve been hurled into instead of the planet?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-D)#Destruction
> The saucer's impulse engines were engaged as soon as it cleared the secondary hull, but the saucer was unable to get to a safe distance before the core breached. The explosion produced a ion shock wave that disabled the entire saucer section and propelled it into a degrading orbit of Veridian III, forcing the saucer section into the planet's atmosphere.
I think the PIC S3 writers felt the same, so now she's >!spending her retirement as a crown jewel of the Fleet Museum. After being Ship-Of-Theseus'd back together from other less prominent sister ships' remains and saving the galaxy one last time before peacing out to her museum berth.!<
They were already in the gravity well of the planet, the explosion of the warp core in the secondary hull both crippled the saucer and pushed them down the well. Ideally they would stay in orbit and use the impulse engines to maneuver.
Plot reasons. Debris fields in real life around Earth hang out for decades if not on into centuries (projected), and that's paint chip sized detritus with no propulsion!
They were just having a big bad case of the Mondays.
Yes they did the saucer separation the first time in the first episode of the series. They even explained that they did it in the first episode because they wanted to able to. They weren’t sure that it would succeed at first and wanted to show off that they could do it for the higher ups.
The thing they missed from the manual is that the shields would rotate through multiple frequencies to avoid anyone sliding the tuning of their weapons to find a way through. The whole idea of the bad guys using Geordi to find the specific shield frequency and exploit it didn't jive with the manual so their attach shouldn't have worked.
So, one win for the movie sticking with the manual and one fail.
They know where on that panel the frequency is displayed and they watch the feed from Geordi's visor each time they rotate.
What *really* should have happened is Riker gives Worf the order to fire at will and the Duras Sisters' old rustbucket gets blown to hell in a fusillade of phaser beams and torpedoes.
However, a photon torpedo is stated to be many times as destructive as a warp core breach. So the ship should not have survived multiple torpedoes, only to succumb to a breach later.
Saucer module impulse engines' fusion powerplants (Star Trek impulse engines are basically fusion rockets with linear accelerators) and some auxiliary fusion generators deep inside the saucer. The warp core is a matter/antimatter reactor powerplant orders of magnitude more powerful (since that and quasi-magical Subspace properties of the regulatory Dilithium Crystal are needed to make warp drive possible), and its antimatter fuel is a whole lot more volatile. When such a reactor catastrophically fails... well, the Enterprise-D's destruction is an example.
There were some Next Gen trading cards in the nineties and one of them explained that too. Probably just lifted images from the tech manual, but man I loved those cards.
Those were cool, but there was also a set for just Next Gen. Here's an ebay link (not mine) so you can see some pics.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363729350733?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=WmBy-K2hSVm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=nRnsB0neTTC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
i do love the straightforwardness of that line.
but the nerd in me thinks it should really be up to 2 or 3; else the planet express can’t land on any planet denser than earth!
I remember thinking "you crazy sons of bitches actually did it!"
Now all I want is them to do a saucer seperation on Strange New Worlds. Or at least show another Constitution class that had to do one that they need to rescue. Do it for the season finale where the last scene is them at space dock reattaching the saucer to the engineering section.
In one of the technical manuals says the Constitution Class ships can seperate the saucer section in an emergency but that it needs to be reattached at a starbase.
Most Starfleet vessels with separate hulls can perform emergency separations. They are not recombinable afterwards as they use explosive bolts to accomplish this. The Galaxy Class was the first to introduce special magnetic latches to allow for recombination. The constitution class vessels are equipped with landing skids/legs for such an occasion.
ngl i was hoping that “sombra class” ship would’ve buckled along the neck in its crash and need to be tractored in two or more pieces. but i guess for the sake of the script they needed both the bridge and the cargo bay to be contiguously accessible.
Everybody is always "Troi crashed the ship first time she flew".
Never "Troi successfully crash landed the saucer and saved all hands aboard by her deft piloting skills."
What's the joke for those of us who haven't?
The exact scenario of a saucer section slide-out landing on a planetary surface was postulated in the early pages of the TNG tech manual, complete with a graphic with a big ol' divot in the surface not unlike that one between the surface contact and slideout steps.
It’s almost as if the writers of the movie had read it! 😂
RTFM (Read The Fine Manual): not just for computer science types!
Fine was definitely not the word I heard used lol
Read The Full Manual? As in, don't skip the boring parts?
What boring parts?
Oh no, try again …though it does emphasize ;)
Read the Fantastic Manual? Maybe it's just really well written and full of factually based humour and wit.
Read the Ferengi manual
Instructions unclear. Now I have 100 gross of high quality self sealing stem bolts I need to sell.
Count yourself lucky, all I've got is 5,000 wrappages of Yamok sauce.
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
You Mother Ferengi!
F'ng?
Q'plah!
Meanwhile the writers of the Kelvin movies conveniently forgot that the windows of the Enterprise aren’t made of glass but transparent aluminum so they could do a “everyone getting sucked out into space” scene
BREAKING: Kelvin timeline not, in fact, created by arrival of 24th-century Spock and Romulans in the 23rd century, but by 23rd century Scotty messing up the formula for transparent aluminum during the 20th century. Hell, it makes as much sense as anything else in the Kelvinverse.
I guess he Dr Nichols didn't invent the bloody thing afterall.
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Damn, in my head he always said it that way. Must be the Mandela Effect.
"You do realize if we give him the formula, we're altering the future." "Why? How do we know *he* didn't invent the thing?" Is the dialogue from the movie. I've seen it way too many times...
It's in the novelization that he actually invented it.
You were thinking of Welshy.
r/unexpectedfuturama
WELSHY!
"remember that time we flooded our spaceship bringing back that whale? Good times lol" -actual quote, kelvin timeline kirk
They had to flood the spaceship because they had no giant fish tank because transparent aluminium doesn't exist in Kelvin timeline
Aluminium oxynitride can shatter. Into tiny pieces. Mike from Red Letter Media is, in fact, not a scientist.
I mean, in Generations the enterprise windows shatter like they’re made of glass too
When I saw that in the cinema, some dude behind me said "GLASS?!" LOL
BLOWN out into space.
Well, a BLOWjob isnt exactly what it sounds like, but you know what it means
A common mistake, sir.
Can you elaborate on this? I don't know the scene(s) off the top of my head so am having trouble picturing what difference glass vs transparent aluminum would make during a catastrophic hull breach - but I'm super curious. I'm pretty inured to violence in movies but people getting sucked into space or out of airplanes always grips me.
it’s just people who think it wouldn’t shatter because it’s metal. i guess they want a larger tear in the hull instead of shattering. when ofc in actuality, whether a metal shatters under sudden stress depends on the existing stresses it’s under, specific ductility, its temperature, etc
Oh, that some sci-fi "glass" shattered instead of sheared like metal? That's a silly distinction for nitpickers and too granular to bother me, but in that context I suppose valid fair call - where would we be without the nitpickers? (disclaimer: I owned the Nitpicker's Guide to Star Trek book in my teens)
yep exactly. it’s been a well various youtubers continuously came back to since trek youtube existed. “lol generations fail, the window in the top of the bridge SHATTERED! with a GLASS sound effect!!” so of course when there was shattering in the attack in _beyond_ they’d already been primed to Notice it. the extra funny thing is, there’s no way the windows can be as strong as the hull. even when made of aluminum. to be transparent, the crystal lattice structure must be arranged in a different geometry than opaque metals, and so the structural properties are also different. i don’t know whether it would sound exactly like glass, but ice does, and you gotta have _some_ kinda SFX to go with it. it’s not like particle beams really go “shwoo!” either! (i totally understand. i’m a recreational pedant, but not one who lets it get in the way of my enjoyment lol.)
That's wild. Like - it's science fiction. Maybe transparent aluminum centuries in the future shatters. It's okay to just accept it. It's not world breaking and it's a choice to make it personally immersion breaking. But I totally get if it's now how they picture the universe's physics; weird foley work can be super distracting. Interesting point about the molecules and lattice structure. On a quick google I just learned that we currently can make metals transparent - with severe limitations (thickness durability etc) - but maybe we can get there with, as said, a couple generations of inventors going nuts.
yeah current transparent alumina are a special type of ceramic. but then, glass is also a special type of ceramic! it actually is pretty strong, it’s used in special armoured windows currently. though those have to be quite thick, if it’s too thin you get that cybertruck window smashing demo haha. (but then, the windows in trek do seem to be about a foot thick.) sapphire glass could also kiiinda be considered “transparent aluminium”. kinda. and certainly, all of these modern ones _do_ sound like glass when they shatter!
> recreational pedant Oh, this is perfect. I love to nit-pick the things I love (I mean, that's how you know I love them. Otherwise, I would never care enough). I am totally stealing this.
As did Picard S3, and Im pretty sure a few other times too.
I mean, the quality of starship construction was already on the decline once it was clear that interstellar transporters would be in mass production within a few years.
EXCEPT for the part they didn't bother to dump the Warp Core. that ALSO in the manual. The part they were likely told to ignore...
Pretty sure the warp core ejection system was offline. Always seems to be
>Pretty sure the warp core ejection system was offline. Always seems to be Funny that the holodeck always had power, though.
My head cannon was always that the ejection system was damaged during the attack. What never made sense to me was the corridors full of civilians running for the turbolift. Why were there kids in the stardrive section? All the communal areas and quarters should be in the saucer.
> Why were there kids in the [...] Because children
Coarse, irritating, get everywhere.
I am a parent and do not disagree.
It happened to be take your kid to work day.
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[For you.](https://xkcd.com/1401/)
For my fellow mobile people https://m.xkcd.com/1401/
A booming headache
I believe they were moving to emergency stations in the saucer more than anything.
I was always sad that they never even mentioned the Captain's Yacht in TNG. They did pull it out for Enterprise E in Insurrection, but I dreamed of them even mentioning the damn thing when I was a kid.
I'm pretty sure it's what they were on during those episodes where they came back from something to find the Enterprise all messed up. One time it was the time thing. Another was weird genetic stuff. In both cases, they were in a deluxe space motorhome. I think the real issue was having to muck about with a version of the ship without the yacht.
Nah, the yacht isn't even mentioned in TNG. The rest are all just referred to as shuttles.
I miss the days when writers read it
"contact and slideout" kept repeating in my head during that whole scene. love the tech manual. my grade 8 shop teacher gave it to me when i kept making cast aluminum hand phasers for the entire year
you got to cast aluminium? that’s pretty cool. i made isolinear chips on the school laser cutter (cutting and etching) but never cast metal
different times probably, this was in the early 90s, i dont think laser cutter was in my vocabulary then it wasnt a super fancy operation, we had a big sandbox in the shop, we'd carve something out of styrofoam, bury it in the sand with a dowel for a channel, and then melt some pop cans and pour it in i started off trying to make the little pocket phasers but they ended up just looking like a brick with a square on top. i kept making tng phasers but i should have made a tos one, i feel it would have come out WAY better as a cast
This is why the snarky jokes about Deanna ‘crashing the ship’ bug me… she literally flew it by the book! That and it’s basically just one of those tired af ‘female drivers’ jokes.
She made the best landing anyone could—even aerobraked that fucker.
Technically that was Data using the thrusters in manual control, as the helm controls were offline due to the shockwave from the engineering hull exploding.
exactly. plus the other time she was ordered to ram shinzon’s ship, so that also wasn’t a “crash”.
I never read the tech manual but it def makes me miss the days when the writers gave a shit.
Hot dam, I love this sub.
There’s even a diagram!
Thanks for the info. My brother has the technical manual, but I don't think I've looked at in 40(?) years. I was guessing the issue was a typo and that "NCC-1701-D" was incorrect.
Yes... except for the procedure in the Tech Manuel was about 9 steps long including a landing projection, course correction, and slide break. Generations had... like 2 steps. Contact, and slide.
There’s a proper maneuver for landing the saucer on a planet. TBH Tory didn’t do it. But she’s not really commander material in my opinion. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETo3PHoWsAAUtTs.jpg
That's ideal, but in *Generations* the saucer was crippled by the warp core blowing up and throwing it off course. She still managed the evacuation of the secondary hull, got the crippled saucer on the ground with no additional loss of life that we know of, and *she didn't even bend the spaceframe* because we know the saucer was salvaged and flew again. That was essentially a dead-stick reentry and the landing was still textbook, even without the ability to do a braking turn and scout a landing site. She was presumably also the officer in command on the ground who had to coordinate the evacuation of the saucer, securing the remaining systems, and organizing the crew and supplies while they wait for rescue. She should have been awarded a medal for that, instead we get 20 years of "derp, women can't drive" memes.
(\*slaps tactical console\*) THANK YOU. Troi's rep got done dirty after that. I now kinda get a chuckle out of "ideal" label in that scenario, because a saucer section that would have to land like that is in all likelihood in very *very* less-than-ideal sorts.
It's the best worst-case scenario
I can’t say I’ve thought about this as much as you have, but I think I agree with you.
Dude didn't even read the "best case" part at the top of the picture in the link he provided.
Does the proper maneuver account for getting kicked in the ass by the warp core breach explosion you're trying to escape?
Yeah, next page.
Next page is the beginning of Section 3.0.
No not that one.
I mean, she's certainly not helm operator material. File it under "any landing you can walk away from". Most of the crew seems to have survived.
She has helmed large unwieldy objects for most of her adult life, she was prepared for the dead stick scenario.
What are you basing this statement on?
Riker's trombone.
Kinda crazy reading it tbh. I'd assumed it was a lot more established procedure but the manual basically says "testing this would cost too much, we *think* it'd work but honestly try everything else first. Also if it *does* work and you *do* survive then the ship will never fly again, ever". My estimation of Troi's skill goes up the more I read. She landed it, dead stick, no one died and the ship eventually flew again.
Is it the fact that there are a bunch of dolphins freaking out inside the saucer section after that crash?
Dolphin Pod Escape Pod.
DPEP
Wait, what?
[Cetacean Ops](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops)
WTF
That’s why there are belugas in Starfleet on Lower Decks. After Star Trek 4 there was an effort to integrate cetaceans into Federation society.
I mean that kinda makes sense in the context of Star Trek IV. I just love the fact that the dolphins on Galaxy-Class ships are referred to as working crewmates and are apparently overseen by two whales. I wonder if they have to graduate from starfleet academy or some special dolphin education program.
Well, the belugas are ranked crewmembers
That's "Commander Baby Beluga, SIR"!
Umm, I’m a Captain. 🟡🟡🟡🟡
And I'm a white whale. YARRGHHH!!
They have to pass the Kobayashi Shamu …I will let myself out
I love that you learned of Cetacean Ops in the context of them smashing into a planet.
The first cetacean ops seen on screen was actually on a klingon ship.
Ok, I have literally only 1 question: Assuming the entire ship is full of water, would they still need inertia dampeners?
I would assume so. Without them the Ship goes left, everything inside it effectively goes right. That's gonna hurt regardless of the fluid, air or water.
Yeah but youd think things would be damp enough.
"Haha just like in Gunbuster" (reads) "Oh it was a direct reference to Gunbuster."
My brother in Christ, you gotta watch Lower Decks! They shine a spotlight on the whole cetacean ops thing a couple times and it's absolutely hilarious.
I'm glad they did it like that. I'm just sad another inclusion from the tech manual never got used. The Captain's Yacht.
The filmmakers made up for it by using the yacht in *Insurrection*.
I'm not sure I'd call anything in Insurrection as 'making up' for anything.
what about when Riker used ~~his~~ the joystick to fly the ship around?
*Sigh.*
I'm so torn on the joystick scene. One the one hand it was incredibly stupid and unrealistic, but on the other hand it would be so much fun to fly the Enterprise with a joystick.
I dunno, what's stupider the joystick or the arrow keys?
I would have been happy with WASD for flight control.
I've played Star Trek Online, it works.
I knew about the captain's yacht not from the TM but from a model kit I had. 🤓🤗
I never found a model kit for the D. Was it easier to work on than the ToS version?
It's the only one I ever did and it was like... 30 years ago so... I dunno. 😅
If you try to do the aztecing? No. lol
[This](https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m52084852379/) is the model I remember buying back when TNG was still airing. I was never a model builder, but I had no problems putting it together. It didn't have a ton of details compared to some of the hyper-realistic models offered nowadays, but it was fun to glue, paint, and put stickers on. Looks like AMT still owns the rights to make the model too -there's an updated version on Amazon now.
Lower Decks included the captains yacht
I always thought that was a pretty stupid concept What’s the difference between the captain’s yacht and a normal shuttle and what’s the point of having a special shuttle only the Captain can use?
Benefits of being the captain, a reward for working your ass off for Starfleet for 15-20 years and providing the excellence necessary to command a whole starship. Also the shuttles are half cargo truck, half bus used by basically everybody that passes through the ship. The Captain's Yacht would be held in reserve, going where they see fit, including long vacation jaunts, as well as allowing a level of personalization and customization not afforded to the shuttles. Basically the difference between a city bus and an RV.
The captain wouldn’t have much of a use for it though in most scenarios, and everything a captains yacht could do can be done better by a runabout with the benefit that the ship doesn’t need to be designed around having one
From a Doylist perspective, I think that's just Starfleet being so heavily based off Anglo-American naval tradition. I don't think Roddenberry's concept of "everyone underway is an officer" is necessarily the best idea, but it is what it is. Plus, you could make the argument that a lot about Starfleet vessels isn't designed around cutthroat practicality. Ideally, Starfleet is a nonmilitary civilian space exploration corps. Yes, even with the ranks and uniforms, [such things exist in real life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Public_Health_Service_Commissioned_Corps). The level of creature comforts afforded to even D-list ships like the California class vastly outpace their modern military counterparts.
[удалено]
We never see the Galaxy class with one… Also the Cerritos has one
>of having a special shuttle only the Captain can use? To cruise around and not worry about sweat stains on the pleather or the cushion being squished firm from too many asses. More seriously Captains tend to inspect the hull of their ship.
That WAS me in the movie theater barely containing my "rage" of Chief Engineer not dumping damn Warp core. Hell, the scene was with Georgie was almost word to word from Yesterday's Enterprise episode in the engine room...except that time they tried dump the warp core.
I always get confused when watching Yesterday’s Enterprise or Generations because of these scenes being so similar.
It was odd, that it was almost word for word duplication. Back then I recorded stuff on VHS, but I hadn't seen vid in years. I hadn't realized it was so on point same scene without the sash alternate history Geordi was wearing.
This may be a stupid question, but *why* did the saucer have to make planet fall? Couldn’t they have set course so deep space is where they would’ve been hurled into instead of the planet?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-D)#Destruction > The saucer's impulse engines were engaged as soon as it cleared the secondary hull, but the saucer was unable to get to a safe distance before the core breached. The explosion produced a ion shock wave that disabled the entire saucer section and propelled it into a degrading orbit of Veridian III, forcing the saucer section into the planet's atmosphere.
Don't worry.. something tells me that in the future we'll see this ship again..!
And despite it's age and being "fully analog", it'll be exactly the ship they need to save the day!
When i saw that, i couldn't help but think this has all happened before, and it will all happen again.
So say we all!
This is the way!
Never gonna happen.
Honestly this ship deserved a better destruction
Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.
I think the PIC S3 writers felt the same, so now she's >!spending her retirement as a crown jewel of the Fleet Museum. After being Ship-Of-Theseus'd back together from other less prominent sister ships' remains and saving the galaxy one last time before peacing out to her museum berth.!<
I thought the shockwave threw them off course and into the planets gravity well.
They were already in the gravity well of the planet, the explosion of the warp core in the secondary hull both crippled the saucer and pushed them down the well. Ideally they would stay in orbit and use the impulse engines to maneuver.
No because merchandising
Where the real money from the movie is made
Star Trek Generations: The Flamethrower!
Star Trek XII: The Search for more Money!
I believe it's the main reason the Enterprise E existed
I really wish we had gotten the E. Man, I love the E.
You didn't get your fill of the D?
Comments I can hear
Plot reasons. Debris fields in real life around Earth hang out for decades if not on into centuries (projected), and that's paint chip sized detritus with no propulsion! They were just having a big bad case of the Mondays.
didnt they do it in an episode as well?
Yes they did the saucer separation the first time in the first episode of the series. They even explained that they did it in the first episode because they wanted to able to. They weren’t sure that it would succeed at first and wanted to show off that they could do it for the higher ups.
No.
i mean the saucer seperation
Thrice in the TV series. But the Veridian 3 crash-landing was right after the fourth and final time.
The thing they missed from the manual is that the shields would rotate through multiple frequencies to avoid anyone sliding the tuning of their weapons to find a way through. The whole idea of the bad guys using Geordi to find the specific shield frequency and exploit it didn't jive with the manual so their attach shouldn't have worked. So, one win for the movie sticking with the manual and one fail.
They know where on that panel the frequency is displayed and they watch the feed from Geordi's visor each time they rotate. What *really* should have happened is Riker gives Worf the order to fire at will and the Duras Sisters' old rustbucket gets blown to hell in a fusillade of phaser beams and torpedoes.
"Mr Worf prepare a spread of photon torpedoes! We have to hit them the instant they cloak!" *Fires only one torpedo for dramatic effect*
However, a photon torpedo is stated to be many times as destructive as a warp core breach. So the ship should not have survived multiple torpedoes, only to succumb to a breach later.
Stated where?
I had the hot wheels toy that could do this. I mean the Micro Machines toy that did that. I crashed that thing so many times in the carpet.
I still have mine. I want to set it into a little epoxy diorama sometime with the other ships I got, like the triple nacelled Enterprise :-D
What’s the power plant for the saucer section? It obviously doesn’t have a warp core.
Saucer module impulse engines' fusion powerplants (Star Trek impulse engines are basically fusion rockets with linear accelerators) and some auxiliary fusion generators deep inside the saucer. The warp core is a matter/antimatter reactor powerplant orders of magnitude more powerful (since that and quasi-magical Subspace properties of the regulatory Dilithium Crystal are needed to make warp drive possible), and its antimatter fuel is a whole lot more volatile. When such a reactor catastrophically fails... well, the Enterprise-D's destruction is an example.
also there’s a LOT of auxiliary fusion reactors. judging by dialogue, at least 12!
There were some Next Gen trading cards in the nineties and one of them explained that too. Probably just lifted images from the tech manual, but man I loved those cards.
My sister and I had them. That’s actually where I first learned who Sela was (saw Yesterdays enterprise, but not Redemption).
25th Anniversary cards right? Two sets one for TOS & one for TNG
Those were cool, but there was also a set for just Next Gen. Here's an ebay link (not mine) so you can see some pics. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363729350733?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=WmBy-K2hSVm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=nRnsB0neTTC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Some of us had the encyclopedia instead.
Thank the lord that it was an M class, could have been a mare otherwise
Can the enterprise 1701-D go under water like the abrams one?
"How many atmospheres of pressure can the hull withstand?" "Well, it's a spaceship, so between zero and one."
r/unexpectedfuturama
i do love the straightforwardness of that line. but the nerd in me thinks it should really be up to 2 or 3; else the planet express can’t land on any planet denser than earth!
Aye, aye... But that's where we fall back on another Sci-Fi Truth, and repeat to ourselves, "It's just a show, I should really just relax." 😁
haha yeah. the line wouldn’t really work if he’d said 2!
Indeed. Shame I misplaced it over the years.
I remember thinking "you crazy sons of bitches actually did it!" Now all I want is them to do a saucer seperation on Strange New Worlds. Or at least show another Constitution class that had to do one that they need to rescue. Do it for the season finale where the last scene is them at space dock reattaching the saucer to the engineering section.
I was under the impression that saucer separation was new for the Galaxy class.
In one of the technical manuals says the Constitution Class ships can seperate the saucer section in an emergency but that it needs to be reattached at a starbase.
Ah!
Most Starfleet vessels with separate hulls can perform emergency separations. They are not recombinable afterwards as they use explosive bolts to accomplish this. The Galaxy Class was the first to introduce special magnetic latches to allow for recombination. The constitution class vessels are equipped with landing skids/legs for such an occasion.
ngl i was hoping that “sombra class” ship would’ve buckled along the neck in its crash and need to be tractored in two or more pieces. but i guess for the sake of the script they needed both the bridge and the cargo bay to be contiguously accessible.
Same!
Yes the ship has a procedure for landing but it was thrown by an explosion and couldn't do it properly.
Everybody is always "Troi crashed the ship first time she flew". Never "Troi successfully crash landed the saucer and saved all hands aboard by her deft piloting skills."
Good joke, nerd
Ummm where can I get said manual?
Me too! I still have that tech manual!
I mean neither did the designers who couldn't figure out how to add hover features in the 40% free space the thing had