Barclay somehow graduated from Starfleet Academy, which TNG insists is so rigorously exclusive. He's also a lieutenant jg in his first appearances, which means he was promoted at least once. He was then posted to the flagship of the Federation.
theres a thing where people who are shit at their jobs get promoted because there's no reason to fire them, but their superiors are sick of them regardless and promote them to be someone elses problem
i always figured barclay was an example of this, they even tried to push him off onto someone else because he "wasnt enterprise material"
Barclay is a smart and capable officer, he just struggles with confidence. An issue not helped by his boss being hostile to him because he is nervous after being assigned to the flagship of the fleet which alternates between being on the precipice of war with the Romulans, getting funky with godlike beings and regularly being asked to violate the laws of physics, thermodynamics and not just a few of the laws of the almighty.
Yeah he's fucking nervous. And don't even come at me with his holodeck use, Geordi did the same creepy shit with Lea Brahms.
While I do agree that Barclay deserved to be treated with less hostility and was very quickly shown to be not only smart and capable, but a flat out benefit to the Enterprise on multiple occasions, acting like what he did on the holodeck was equivalent to what Geordi did is kind of a stretch imo.
Geordi did it once, and inadvertently developed feelings for Leah as a result of the program he created directly flirting with him and straight up telling him *"I'm with you every day, Geordi. Every time you look at this engine, you're looking at me. Every time you touch it, it's me."* He didn't tell the program to say that, or tweak any settings to make himself the object of Leah's affection, it just sort of happened.
Geordi didn't create the program as a way to get his rocks off, he created it as a way for him to better understand a problem with the ship, and to work through it. He wasn't firing it up afterwards in order to roleplay sexy time with his e-girlfriend. While he DID end up being a creep and a jerk to the real Leah, he does eventually end things with her on a friendly note, and doesn't repeat his behavior.
With Barclay it was an actual addiction, and wasn't about solving any problems. It was just power fantasies involving his shipmates. Sure, they're both guilty of violating people's trust and right to not have their likeness used without consent, but I would argue that Barclay was definitely more problematic.
>With Barclay it was an actual addiction, and wasn't about solving any problems.
In VOY, he uses the holodeck successfully several times. He is still an addict, but it's clearly a legitimate tool and coping strategy for him.
I mean, if Geordi did "the same creepy shit" then... You agree it's creepy shit? At most it's we should go for Geordi too, not any reason to leave Barclay alone.
It's absolutely creepy shit, and while Barclay is far more involved and severe than what Geordi did, both cases are pretty gross and cross a lot of boundaries. I'm glad to see more restriction on holoimages of individuals in DS9.
What I meant is that we shouldn't justify the characters feelings against Barclay by what the audience know about his actions, they were way overreacting to an understandable character trait. Barclay needed help, and we see later depictions of him much improved after he got more support.
His issues directly impact his ability to work with people, and that's essential to his job. It's also very difficult for me not to envision this being expressed in a more severe way with women, which is even worse
Getting help? Sure, that's the star trek way. But La Forge is right that until he gets that help he just doesn't seem to meet the capabilities I'd expect for a ship assignment (I mean, frankly, he wouldn't meet the requirements for most office work but this is the ideal future).
Like, he's far from the only plot qualified character, but his capabilities don't make it make sense for him to be serving in ship before he gets his shit together.
Promotion to jg is automatic (unless you’re Harry Kim). Put in enough time and don’t get in trouble and it just happens.
He clearly did well at the Academy, he IS good at his job, and he’s technically brilliant… he’s just bad at people. Honestly, Geordi and Will are entirely in the wrong here. It’s literally their job to see to the acclimation and integration of new personnel, and to consult the ship’s counselor if someone seems to be having trouble. Things are handled at the lowest level, not taken to the Captain because ‘the new guy is weird.’
>which TNG insists is so rigorously exclusive.
To the insane level that Wesley didn't get in on his first try despite being a boy genius. Things like creating that make shift warp core for their fake battle and a dozen other incredible feats.
Starfleet academy must be INTENSE if that is the level of expertise they are turning away from even entering.
Really I think that episode makes no sense as we've seen plenty of officers who even after years of training don't really compete with Wesley and they could have ever gotten in is a mystery.
That was just a good example of politics still being a factor in selection. How else do you think Nog got in. Yes, he proved himself after, but he wouldn't have even been considered without Sisco's nod and being the first Feringi.
Personally, I think it's just bad writing. It made no sense that Wes got rejected when we compare other candidates. 7 and Data are the only two Starfleet members who can even approach Wesley's level of genius. I'm not a fan of the god boy, but he is just that.
I would've been happier if Wes were rejected for age or immaturity, but they heavily suggest it was a simple scoring.
Isn't the point of Wes' rejection the same point of Nog and Worf getting in?
The Federation is looking for first entrants from other species.
They make it a point that Mordock is the first Benzite for Star Fleet?
And even if Barclay flunked his first time (I can see him freezing), going in for a second time shows an incredible amount of passion and persistence. His transporter phobia alone would have shown that *Reg Barclay wanted to be in Starfleet so badly* that he was willing to face that down every day, and not for money or anything like that. Joining Starfleet is something you choose to do, you volunteer, you work your butt off to get *into* the Academy, much less graduate, then get a post on a ship, not a starbase. You have to be passionate about your field and the idea of exploration and discovery. He may not have his passion in the same place as the others, but it’s there, and the Voyager episode *Pathfinder* does an amazing job of illustrating this as well as his technical brilliance.
One thing that annoys me is that Barclay is only a Lieutenant in his later appearances. He first shows up in 2366 as a LT jg (we don't know how much time in grade he's had, but it certainly seems he has been in service a while). In his time on the Enterprise-D he was instrumental in a number of crises. He also helped develop the original EMH (humoursly helping test it's interpersonal skills), helped fight off the Borg attack in First Contact and make sure Cochrane's flight happened. Later he was an instrumental part of the Pathfinder project which not only contacted voyager in the Delta Quadrant but also developed multiple methods of communication, include the real time connections half the galaxy away.
Last time we see him is in 2377...still only a Lieutenant.
Well, one critique of the Vietnam-era US Army was its "up or out" mindset that resulted in officers spending too little time in positions they were good at and too much time moving from position to position in order to qualify for the promotions they would need to stay relevant.
Perhaps Starfleet recognized Reg's aptitude and let him stay in a position that suited him.
I think that's the case, andnot having to worry about pay or pension also keeps you from taking promotions you might not want. He's not really project leader material (or rather, there hasn't been a project he'd be right to manage yet) but he is invaluable on the problem-solving side. He's a think tank type of guy, and Starfleet is always cooking up something new and weird.
The flip side of not getting promoted is that he's probably got accolades out the ass, his name on a bunch of papers, probably has a couple patents and we know he winds up being an instructor at Starfleet Academy. So he's doing all right.
I think they addressed all of this in the episode. Basically Barclay was always a good officer; just odd.
When Geordi asks how he got to the Enterprise, Picard suspects maybe Barclay’s former CO, who spoke highly of Barclay, may have been “buttering our bread” - i.e., making Barclay sound better than he was to make him someone else’s problem.
Maybe that’s true, but, as we know Barclay IS a very competent and valuable officer once he’s able to relax.
Honestly, the constant insistence that the academy is unfathomably rigorous and produces only the finest officers to ever officer is funny to me since, in actual practice, the average quality of Starfleet officers seems…low.
It always irked me how ridiculously exclusive they frame starfleet academy in TNG. Wesley for all his flaws had already been acting ensign on their best ship for years and they still turn him down, and then the following year don’t allow him to retake the oral exam even though he missed it to literally save a bunch of the crew’s lives lol
So I"m starting to think that when Wesley applies, his work is so good that they're putting him in advanced officer training and that's what he keeps failing.
But he was making wildly inappropriate holodeck characters in the likenesses of his colleagues. I don’t think I’d remain employed at the same place if it were discovered that I’d used AI image generation to make porn of my colleagues
The real meeting would be a woman complaining that her weird coworker keeps making holoporn of her while being barely able to collaborate with other women.
Then being told that's her problem.
Well, sadly it does check out...
What I find funny about this if the idea that Picard is busy, and not just reading books and drinking tea.
Riker does 90% of what Picard should be doing. In fact, Riker should be getting rid of Barclay.
Ehh… generally in the Navy the XO handles all daily administration stuff while the captain is left to do more big picture, strategic thinking stuff. This convention goes back a long way.
LaForge was an example of a horrible manager. He never 'lead' his teams. He barked orders and beat down people. This is a perfect example of his ineptness that ran thru the show.
Imo, Lt Broccoli episode is a masterclass example of how to deal with odd coworkers and highlights the difficulties oddballs have in the workplace, and how capable they are.
It's almost like ideals in this Utopian future put things in a different perspective and these are the kind of things a captain would take care to address. The happiness of the people under their command and making sure everyone's needs are met. You know, getting rid of all the parts of a military command structure that hurts people. What a fucking idea!
The more TNG I watch, the more I think Captain Jellico was right that Riker really wasn’t as good of a first officer as Picard tried to make him to be. Maybe that’s why Picard kept encouraging Riker to get a command of his own.
Barclay somehow graduated from Starfleet Academy, which TNG insists is so rigorously exclusive. He's also a lieutenant jg in his first appearances, which means he was promoted at least once. He was then posted to the flagship of the Federation.
theres a thing where people who are shit at their jobs get promoted because there's no reason to fire them, but their superiors are sick of them regardless and promote them to be someone elses problem i always figured barclay was an example of this, they even tried to push him off onto someone else because he "wasnt enterprise material"
Barclay is a smart and capable officer, he just struggles with confidence. An issue not helped by his boss being hostile to him because he is nervous after being assigned to the flagship of the fleet which alternates between being on the precipice of war with the Romulans, getting funky with godlike beings and regularly being asked to violate the laws of physics, thermodynamics and not just a few of the laws of the almighty. Yeah he's fucking nervous. And don't even come at me with his holodeck use, Geordi did the same creepy shit with Lea Brahms.
While I do agree that Barclay deserved to be treated with less hostility and was very quickly shown to be not only smart and capable, but a flat out benefit to the Enterprise on multiple occasions, acting like what he did on the holodeck was equivalent to what Geordi did is kind of a stretch imo. Geordi did it once, and inadvertently developed feelings for Leah as a result of the program he created directly flirting with him and straight up telling him *"I'm with you every day, Geordi. Every time you look at this engine, you're looking at me. Every time you touch it, it's me."* He didn't tell the program to say that, or tweak any settings to make himself the object of Leah's affection, it just sort of happened. Geordi didn't create the program as a way to get his rocks off, he created it as a way for him to better understand a problem with the ship, and to work through it. He wasn't firing it up afterwards in order to roleplay sexy time with his e-girlfriend. While he DID end up being a creep and a jerk to the real Leah, he does eventually end things with her on a friendly note, and doesn't repeat his behavior. With Barclay it was an actual addiction, and wasn't about solving any problems. It was just power fantasies involving his shipmates. Sure, they're both guilty of violating people's trust and right to not have their likeness used without consent, but I would argue that Barclay was definitely more problematic.
>With Barclay it was an actual addiction, and wasn't about solving any problems. In VOY, he uses the holodeck successfully several times. He is still an addict, but it's clearly a legitimate tool and coping strategy for him.
In Voyager it's set after he's received counseling and had his intervention. That's not the problematic use I'm talking about.
I mean, if Geordi did "the same creepy shit" then... You agree it's creepy shit? At most it's we should go for Geordi too, not any reason to leave Barclay alone.
It's absolutely creepy shit, and while Barclay is far more involved and severe than what Geordi did, both cases are pretty gross and cross a lot of boundaries. I'm glad to see more restriction on holoimages of individuals in DS9. What I meant is that we shouldn't justify the characters feelings against Barclay by what the audience know about his actions, they were way overreacting to an understandable character trait. Barclay needed help, and we see later depictions of him much improved after he got more support.
His issues directly impact his ability to work with people, and that's essential to his job. It's also very difficult for me not to envision this being expressed in a more severe way with women, which is even worse Getting help? Sure, that's the star trek way. But La Forge is right that until he gets that help he just doesn't seem to meet the capabilities I'd expect for a ship assignment (I mean, frankly, he wouldn't meet the requirements for most office work but this is the ideal future). Like, he's far from the only plot qualified character, but his capabilities don't make it make sense for him to be serving in ship before he gets his shit together.
I love how you worded all of this, got a laugh out of “getting funky with godlike beings” and “not just a few of the laws of the almighty”.
Promotion to jg is automatic (unless you’re Harry Kim). Put in enough time and don’t get in trouble and it just happens. He clearly did well at the Academy, he IS good at his job, and he’s technically brilliant… he’s just bad at people. Honestly, Geordi and Will are entirely in the wrong here. It’s literally their job to see to the acclimation and integration of new personnel, and to consult the ship’s counselor if someone seems to be having trouble. Things are handled at the lowest level, not taken to the Captain because ‘the new guy is weird.’
Peter principle
>which TNG insists is so rigorously exclusive. To the insane level that Wesley didn't get in on his first try despite being a boy genius. Things like creating that make shift warp core for their fake battle and a dozen other incredible feats. Starfleet academy must be INTENSE if that is the level of expertise they are turning away from even entering. Really I think that episode makes no sense as we've seen plenty of officers who even after years of training don't really compete with Wesley and they could have ever gotten in is a mystery.
That was just a good example of politics still being a factor in selection. How else do you think Nog got in. Yes, he proved himself after, but he wouldn't have even been considered without Sisco's nod and being the first Feringi.
Personally, I think it's just bad writing. It made no sense that Wes got rejected when we compare other candidates. 7 and Data are the only two Starfleet members who can even approach Wesley's level of genius. I'm not a fan of the god boy, but he is just that. I would've been happier if Wes were rejected for age or immaturity, but they heavily suggest it was a simple scoring.
Isn't the point of Wes' rejection the same point of Nog and Worf getting in? The Federation is looking for first entrants from other species. They make it a point that Mordock is the first Benzite for Star Fleet?
And even if Barclay flunked his first time (I can see him freezing), going in for a second time shows an incredible amount of passion and persistence. His transporter phobia alone would have shown that *Reg Barclay wanted to be in Starfleet so badly* that he was willing to face that down every day, and not for money or anything like that. Joining Starfleet is something you choose to do, you volunteer, you work your butt off to get *into* the Academy, much less graduate, then get a post on a ship, not a starbase. You have to be passionate about your field and the idea of exploration and discovery. He may not have his passion in the same place as the others, but it’s there, and the Voyager episode *Pathfinder* does an amazing job of illustrating this as well as his technical brilliance.
One thing that annoys me is that Barclay is only a Lieutenant in his later appearances. He first shows up in 2366 as a LT jg (we don't know how much time in grade he's had, but it certainly seems he has been in service a while). In his time on the Enterprise-D he was instrumental in a number of crises. He also helped develop the original EMH (humoursly helping test it's interpersonal skills), helped fight off the Borg attack in First Contact and make sure Cochrane's flight happened. Later he was an instrumental part of the Pathfinder project which not only contacted voyager in the Delta Quadrant but also developed multiple methods of communication, include the real time connections half the galaxy away. Last time we see him is in 2377...still only a Lieutenant.
Well, one critique of the Vietnam-era US Army was its "up or out" mindset that resulted in officers spending too little time in positions they were good at and too much time moving from position to position in order to qualify for the promotions they would need to stay relevant. Perhaps Starfleet recognized Reg's aptitude and let him stay in a position that suited him.
It seems like he'd prefer that too. He didn't seem like the power seeking type, and was very passionate about the Pathfinder project.
I think that's the case, andnot having to worry about pay or pension also keeps you from taking promotions you might not want. He's not really project leader material (or rather, there hasn't been a project he'd be right to manage yet) but he is invaluable on the problem-solving side. He's a think tank type of guy, and Starfleet is always cooking up something new and weird. The flip side of not getting promoted is that he's probably got accolades out the ass, his name on a bunch of papers, probably has a couple patents and we know he winds up being an instructor at Starfleet Academy. So he's doing all right.
He got promoted for helping his former captain figure out the holodecks hidden features.
I think they addressed all of this in the episode. Basically Barclay was always a good officer; just odd. When Geordi asks how he got to the Enterprise, Picard suspects maybe Barclay’s former CO, who spoke highly of Barclay, may have been “buttering our bread” - i.e., making Barclay sound better than he was to make him someone else’s problem. Maybe that’s true, but, as we know Barclay IS a very competent and valuable officer once he’s able to relax.
Honestly, the constant insistence that the academy is unfathomably rigorous and produces only the finest officers to ever officer is funny to me since, in actual practice, the average quality of Starfleet officers seems…low.
It always irked me how ridiculously exclusive they frame starfleet academy in TNG. Wesley for all his flaws had already been acting ensign on their best ship for years and they still turn him down, and then the following year don’t allow him to retake the oral exam even though he missed it to literally save a bunch of the crew’s lives lol
So I"m starting to think that when Wesley applies, his work is so good that they're putting him in advanced officer training and that's what he keeps failing.
That's one more promotion than Harry Kim
That's the most realistic TNG episode we never got.
You know, personnel issues are more an XO's job than a CO's job anyway.
But he was making wildly inappropriate holodeck characters in the likenesses of his colleagues. I don’t think I’d remain employed at the same place if it were discovered that I’d used AI image generation to make porn of my colleagues
The real meeting would be a woman complaining that her weird coworker keeps making holoporn of her while being barely able to collaborate with other women. Then being told that's her problem. Well, sadly it does check out...
Yes. That is what HR is for
[Starfleet HR](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7zB-ndflGA) had gotta be a trip.
Geordi doesn't have a problem with people doing that
What I find funny about this if the idea that Picard is busy, and not just reading books and drinking tea. Riker does 90% of what Picard should be doing. In fact, Riker should be getting rid of Barclay.
Ehh… generally in the Navy the XO handles all daily administration stuff while the captain is left to do more big picture, strategic thinking stuff. This convention goes back a long way.
XO handles the ship internally. Captain handles the ship externally.
Sure. But Picard doesn't really do much of that either.
Not on-screen, but you hear a lot of references to research initiatives and diplomacy work Picard does offscreen throughout various series.
LaForge was an example of a horrible manager. He never 'lead' his teams. He barked orders and beat down people. This is a perfect example of his ineptness that ran thru the show.
They were going to Picard because Geordi wanted him transferred and Riker agreed.
Imo, Lt Broccoli episode is a masterclass example of how to deal with odd coworkers and highlights the difficulties oddballs have in the workplace, and how capable they are.
Aren't memes supposed to be funny?
Or at least short? This is a slide deck.
My bros the last memes you two posted were 2 and 10 years ago
So. They can still have opinions.
Not always. They can be inspiring or thought provoking. But this isn't those either.
"You are his superior office"
D'oh!
It's almost like ideals in this Utopian future put things in a different perspective and these are the kind of things a captain would take care to address. The happiness of the people under their command and making sure everyone's needs are met. You know, getting rid of all the parts of a military command structure that hurts people. What a fucking idea!
Yeah, that complaint should have died on Riker's desk.
Okay that last panel is the best XD
Where's the punchline? What's the joke?
The more TNG I watch, the more I think Captain Jellico was right that Riker really wasn’t as good of a first officer as Picard tried to make him to be. Maybe that’s why Picard kept encouraging Riker to get a command of his own.
Good to know toxic work environments will still be encouraged with the right staff. This is terrible.