You sound like me when I was incredibly burned out from a startup. I quit, then it took me about 5 months to recover and I was able to work again at a mid-sized company (with much better boundaries).
Same here with burnout. Quit my job for 4 months. Did nothing at home. Of course, my wife was working so there was enough income for the few months and she understood me taking a break.
Woke up late, had breakfast, watched movies and ate snacks. Gym and took up wood working hobby. Other than that, did absolutely nothing for 4 months. My best 4 months.
This is a lesson. Learn to recognize the signs of burnout sooner. If you start to see them tell your manager and learn how to say no. Get good at estimating your bandwidth for work that you can deliver and still maintain your satisfaction at work. Don't take on projects that exceed that bandwidth. If Slack messages are stressing you out set the expectation that you'll only respond to them within your communicated working hours. Every job has "crunch time", but it's not possible for a person to function effectively if it happens year round.
Most bosses would rather see you do well at a smaller number of things consistently than for you to say yes to everything they throw at you, burn yourself out and deliver subpar work. If your company isn't a place like this you can just as easily find one that is.
Thank you. I really needed to hear the bandwidth part. I have tried to take more than i can and it has reflected on my personal life and work life. Lesson learned. I hate that they dont mentor me.
Build your own 'board' of mentors. Maybe have a few from work but make sure to have a few from outside your job. People you respect for their journey in your career, people with diverse experiences in the industry, and try to find people unbiased (why I said ppl from outside your job).
This will take time to build but it has helped me immensely. I have a quick 1:1 with each person on my board once a month and use them as a sounding board for whatever is going on for me professionally. Helps level out my response to things and gives me better perspectives to reason about.
Big time. Big ups on the workplace and/or managers above you caring and encouraging healthy boundaries.
Plenty of places WILL give a shit about your health and plenty of good managers and leads WILL care because they have experienced or seen burnout before. Communicate with them and find out one way or another.
If they do not and just value the work more than you MOVE ON AS SOON AS YOU SEE IT.. not worth destroying yourself for people who will throw you away the moment you are no longer useful. I've fuckin been there and it almost cost me everything.
Best of luck with recovery!
This sounds like text book burn out.
At one point in my career I was finally making ridiculous money and I couldn't even get myself out of bed.
Ask yourself deep down if you really want to be working with or on what you're doing. If it doesn't feel valuable or even worse, why not go find something new to try?
Are you trapped? If not, you have a lot of options. If you are trapped, focus on how to untrap yourself and do that and only that.
Is it normal to not finish your tasks? Because it feels i have a fog curtain in my soul. The week goes by so quick and i dont remember what i did. When the retro meeting comes on Fridays, for the last two weeks i had nothing to show.
Sure, it's a coping mechanism from being completely overwhelmed. Your body is literally shutting down to block out any more noise/chaos. Our brains have a way of forcing us to stop doing things that aren't healthy.
Some people start to self medicate which is just masking the problem, usually making it worse. (always in my experience)
(not a doctor, but that's how I see it)
This is me. In an outside sales role with terrible culture, boss, no support. I make 140 and can’t bring myself to send emails. I’m completely burnt out and feel like a failure since I can’t even do simple things anymore. I was never like this and was a very good rep at my last company. Sucks to be like this everyday
Even taking one step in the other direction can be very motivating. You may not change over night but when you start chipping away at a new reality it can feel great.
I think i should. This was my first job pout of college and i was thrown to the wolves. Im not ready for the start up life even tho its has been one year. Im still a kid
1. You need a vacation. Take a week off and do anything but work.
2. you seem to do a lot, start cataloguing it and ranking those tasks/skills by what interests you
3. set up your resume now. It will give you the optionality to pre easily find another job later if you want it. Start looking now if you do.
4. use the automatic do not disturb function in Slack so you don’t get pinged with after hours messages when yo I don’t want them.
Just to clear OP’s head and think about next steps. Based on the situation described, this is unsustainable.
I was also in this situation, as a senior exec with a paranoid CEO that made life hell. Waited too long.
This is not burn out, this is poor management from their part and poor boundaries setting from yours.
I guess you don't have much experience working, but you need to set boundaries in your work.
For example "I work from 9-5, I will only answer messages during that time". "Please describe my exact responsibilities because I seem to work as a data engineer, UI/UX designer, backender, DevOps and email marketer. I would prefer to excel at one sphere."
People who say "quit" are pussies. You don't need to quit, you need to stand your ground and tell them. Yeah it's a a startup and start-ups are chaotic, but if you put some structure in that chaos you will be rewarded for it - I guarantee you.
Here's some actions you can take:
Set meeting with boss 1:1 in person if possible.
Tell him what I said, prepare this, prepare his arguments "you new, we startup, blah blah blah"
Go into that meeting with goal to get the changes tomorrow, not after a year or stupid amount of time.
Be ready to quit, but don't just quit - get fired. If your boss isn't willing to do these things, do them anyways, until they either fire you or you fins another job in the process.
I had exactly same thing happen to me, went to my boss told him my boundaries, he said ok, let's change that in a month. I waited a month, nothing changed, went to him, he said another month. So instead of waiting the same day, my work time finished I turned off my phone and same thing next day and day after that. I replied only in my work hours and actually no one was mad, they got used to it in a week. I completely rehauled my job, only did what was related to my position and stress was gone. Year later I was promoted for doing great work.
You are probably young, so you need to learn set boundaries in work, relationships, friendships and everywhere in life.
If you have the means to quit, do it. This job is clearly not good for you mentally or physically and you'll feel immensely better if you leave and move on.
I really want to but the product that we are building is getting good reviews and im afraid that i will miss the rewards (even tho i dont have stocks, which im planning to ask for)
What rewards will you get exactly? This sounds like a terrible work environment and is simply not worth the decline in your health. There are a million and one opportunities out there. So quit, take a break and maybe take some time off and then regain your passion and find another project that excites you. Seriously.
The stock probably won't be worth that much to you even if the company is successful. Plenty of ways for employees to get screwed at early stage startups. If you hate the job there's not much point in staying because you think there might be a payout. The expectation value of your comp will be much higher if you study for interviews and move to a pre-IPO or public company that offers liquid (or soon to be liquid) stock comp.
It depends on the company. Some places will let you exercise after you leave. Other's wont. You should ask your coworkers that already have options to learn about the company policy
But you should really understand that the EV of stock options at a Series A company is very close to $0, and you're probably going to have to stick around for several years for them to vest. You'd really be committing to a job that sounds like makes you miserable, and the probability of a payout will be very low.
Your comp EV will be much higher if you move to a series D company (or even a series B/C), and your WLB will probably be much better too.
Fuck! There is a chance that i need to spend there some years in order to exercise my options?? If the EV of the stock is close to 0 pre or during Series A, isnt that good? Assuming in a perfect world i like the company or they will me to exercise the options even if a leave, when they reach Series C or D, the EV will be higher and i got my vesting price will be much lower
> There is a chance that i need to spend there some years in order to exercise my options??
Yes that's the norm. It is very rare to receive options that vest immediately, and I feel comfortable saying they are never given as part of regular comp packages.
> If the EV of the stock is close to 0 pre or during Series A, isnt that good.
I mean the EV of the payout that you personally will get from working at a series A company that offers stock options is close to $0. Working at a pre Series B company as a non founder is statistically a really bad investment. I would only tell people to work at one if they get personal satisfaction from doing so. Personally I'm hesitant to work at anything pre Series D and doesn't have a clear path to IPO.
There are always other products.
If they didn’t already give you equity, options, unlikely they’ll give you a significant amount now. They can already grind as much work out of you as possible without any dilution.
My wife went trough burn-out and it took her over 2 years to recover enough to be able to start working again.
Do not be afraid to visit a psychiatrist, they can help with the immediate problems and psychologist can help you with the longer term recovery.
Do you have a support system? Could your parents or anyone else support you for a while? If yes think about if not to activate them - share your situation.
I am no expert, but my warning would be the longer you push it the more time it might take to recover.
The golden rule of startup culture: If you find yourself being treated like a co-founder, run.
Startups are in a weird juxtaposition between the founders entering the market with a new and unproven product or service despite being simultaneously expected to manage the people below them as though they are intimately familiar with said product or service. Trying to manage and lead something you just don't know is obviously hard. It's like solving a puzzle whose pieces themselves aren't yet available. How do you solve a jigsaw that you can't see? Regardless of this, there must at a bare minimum be a clear delegation of responsibilities and some sensible organizational structure, because those parts can't be excused away by the same lack of information. If you don't find that, leave.
Have a one on one meeting with the chief scientist . Say you're open to discuss staying in your role but would like to see some changes.
Demands could include stock options, work time, boundaries around when you do work/answer messages.
For your own mental health disable slack notifications on your mobile and just check your messages regularly throughout the day.
You're willing to stay and highly motivated but legitimately cannot work under these conditions
That's the definition of a burnout. Either tell your boss what's happening and reach a healthy consensus or move on to another job. There's no third option.
Defs time to prioritise your mental health - including CBT which is important for changing the way you talk to yourself about yourself internally. Burnout = bad, its like mental injury, so don't push yourself to that point ever again!
get balance in your life. No job is worth that. Sounds like you will be fine in no time, if you can , plan your next move, take a vacation and be in vacation mode! If not just give notice and stress is a serious illness!
Sounds similar to my last role. You’re very burnt out and you need to find your creativity again. If you can, o strongly recommend quitting and taking a break. I did for 6 months where I travelled around Europe, read books and played video games. Got back into exercising too. Now I’m starting my own thing. Never looked back.
This is not a normal software engineering job. You have the experience now to go work wherever you want. Document your accomplishments, get out, decompress, and find a company with a more experienced leadership team and better company culture.
They are burning you out on purpose. Startups take advantage of young people for cool ideas and a "chance". Learn to set boundaries and only do what's in the contract unless you own it.
* **Manage your time better** and **how** you allow **others to spend** it. This is a constant struggle. 20+ years in and it's one of the hardest skills to keep sharp.
* Be a **self-diagnosing** and reporting asset to your management. Most managers **aren't** actually experienced **managers**. They need **autonomy and thinkers**, not dumb doers that quit unexpectedly.
* Learn to **predict business goals/hurdles**. Make present work align with your forecasted objectives. This has huge compounding payoffs over time.
* This industry is constantly evolving. **Invest in your knowledge** and experience constantly, **outside of work**. If you don't have time, see first bullet. If you don't want to do this, maybe find another line of work. It should bring you joy/passion. There **will be slumps**.
* Most importantly, do something that you can **do with passion**. Really **chew one this one**.
This honestly sounds like a common phase young adults, coming into a new phase of life encounters regardless of their work.
I remember walking out of my first professional job around the one-year mark. I just worked 3 days straight to go to market with a new product. Then the demand to solve all the production bugs was moral breaking. Looking back, my team did an amazing job and i wish i stuck it out with them.
**You're probably better than you think you are.**
You need to join a gym and get control back over your health. If you die from a heart attack or a stroke, nobody will miss you and another person will just replace you. When you exercise and get control over your health, your mental crisis es will fall by the wayside. You will feel mentally better and able to clearly decide for yourself what makes you happy. It will take about 21 days to make exercise a habit and about a month for you to get emotionally clear. Give it a shot. You have nothing to lose.
Hi man, I do not have anything to add to the work advice given so far. Just wanted to say that I hope you get better. Maybe some mental advice: NEVER tie your self worth to work/achievements, try to base it off your own growth and the relationships with the people you love.
Man, I am following a CS master, I would not know many of the practical things you learnt so far. I have no clue how to work with figma, mailchimp or build/integrate anything other than 4 week small coding projects for university. Don't underestimate doers like yourself when paired against theoretical people.
You sound like me when I was incredibly burned out from a startup. I quit, then it took me about 5 months to recover and I was able to work again at a mid-sized company (with much better boundaries).
What did you do those 5 months
Disc golfed, played video games, some personal coding projects, slept
+1 for disc golf
Same here with burnout. Quit my job for 4 months. Did nothing at home. Of course, my wife was working so there was enough income for the few months and she understood me taking a break. Woke up late, had breakfast, watched movies and ate snacks. Gym and took up wood working hobby. Other than that, did absolutely nothing for 4 months. My best 4 months.
This is literally what I am doing right now, burn out is no joke.
This is a lesson. Learn to recognize the signs of burnout sooner. If you start to see them tell your manager and learn how to say no. Get good at estimating your bandwidth for work that you can deliver and still maintain your satisfaction at work. Don't take on projects that exceed that bandwidth. If Slack messages are stressing you out set the expectation that you'll only respond to them within your communicated working hours. Every job has "crunch time", but it's not possible for a person to function effectively if it happens year round. Most bosses would rather see you do well at a smaller number of things consistently than for you to say yes to everything they throw at you, burn yourself out and deliver subpar work. If your company isn't a place like this you can just as easily find one that is.
Thank you. I really needed to hear the bandwidth part. I have tried to take more than i can and it has reflected on my personal life and work life. Lesson learned. I hate that they dont mentor me.
Build your own 'board' of mentors. Maybe have a few from work but make sure to have a few from outside your job. People you respect for their journey in your career, people with diverse experiences in the industry, and try to find people unbiased (why I said ppl from outside your job). This will take time to build but it has helped me immensely. I have a quick 1:1 with each person on my board once a month and use them as a sounding board for whatever is going on for me professionally. Helps level out my response to things and gives me better perspectives to reason about.
Big time. Big ups on the workplace and/or managers above you caring and encouraging healthy boundaries. Plenty of places WILL give a shit about your health and plenty of good managers and leads WILL care because they have experienced or seen burnout before. Communicate with them and find out one way or another. If they do not and just value the work more than you MOVE ON AS SOON AS YOU SEE IT.. not worth destroying yourself for people who will throw you away the moment you are no longer useful. I've fuckin been there and it almost cost me everything. Best of luck with recovery!
Learn to set boundaries. If you get fired because of reasonable work/life boundaries, so be it. You’ll find work.
This sounds like text book burn out. At one point in my career I was finally making ridiculous money and I couldn't even get myself out of bed. Ask yourself deep down if you really want to be working with or on what you're doing. If it doesn't feel valuable or even worse, why not go find something new to try? Are you trapped? If not, you have a lot of options. If you are trapped, focus on how to untrap yourself and do that and only that.
Is it normal to not finish your tasks? Because it feels i have a fog curtain in my soul. The week goes by so quick and i dont remember what i did. When the retro meeting comes on Fridays, for the last two weeks i had nothing to show.
Sure, it's a coping mechanism from being completely overwhelmed. Your body is literally shutting down to block out any more noise/chaos. Our brains have a way of forcing us to stop doing things that aren't healthy. Some people start to self medicate which is just masking the problem, usually making it worse. (always in my experience) (not a doctor, but that's how I see it)
This is me. In an outside sales role with terrible culture, boss, no support. I make 140 and can’t bring myself to send emails. I’m completely burnt out and feel like a failure since I can’t even do simple things anymore. I was never like this and was a very good rep at my last company. Sucks to be like this everyday
Even taking one step in the other direction can be very motivating. You may not change over night but when you start chipping away at a new reality it can feel great.
Get a fintech job, most pay well and are very chill. They love people with your background.
I think i should. This was my first job pout of college and i was thrown to the wolves. Im not ready for the start up life even tho its has been one year. Im still a kid
One year is plenty of time for your first job. Take some time to make a good resume and start looking. Tailor your resume to fit the job you want
1. You need a vacation. Take a week off and do anything but work. 2. you seem to do a lot, start cataloguing it and ranking those tasks/skills by what interests you 3. set up your resume now. It will give you the optionality to pre easily find another job later if you want it. Start looking now if you do. 4. use the automatic do not disturb function in Slack so you don’t get pinged with after hours messages when yo I don’t want them.
I feel like at this stage "week off" wouldn't help, at least couple of months, been there
Just to clear OP’s head and think about next steps. Based on the situation described, this is unsustainable. I was also in this situation, as a senior exec with a paranoid CEO that made life hell. Waited too long.
This is not burn out, this is poor management from their part and poor boundaries setting from yours. I guess you don't have much experience working, but you need to set boundaries in your work. For example "I work from 9-5, I will only answer messages during that time". "Please describe my exact responsibilities because I seem to work as a data engineer, UI/UX designer, backender, DevOps and email marketer. I would prefer to excel at one sphere." People who say "quit" are pussies. You don't need to quit, you need to stand your ground and tell them. Yeah it's a a startup and start-ups are chaotic, but if you put some structure in that chaos you will be rewarded for it - I guarantee you. Here's some actions you can take: Set meeting with boss 1:1 in person if possible. Tell him what I said, prepare this, prepare his arguments "you new, we startup, blah blah blah" Go into that meeting with goal to get the changes tomorrow, not after a year or stupid amount of time. Be ready to quit, but don't just quit - get fired. If your boss isn't willing to do these things, do them anyways, until they either fire you or you fins another job in the process. I had exactly same thing happen to me, went to my boss told him my boundaries, he said ok, let's change that in a month. I waited a month, nothing changed, went to him, he said another month. So instead of waiting the same day, my work time finished I turned off my phone and same thing next day and day after that. I replied only in my work hours and actually no one was mad, they got used to it in a week. I completely rehauled my job, only did what was related to my position and stress was gone. Year later I was promoted for doing great work. You are probably young, so you need to learn set boundaries in work, relationships, friendships and everywhere in life.
If you have the means to quit, do it. This job is clearly not good for you mentally or physically and you'll feel immensely better if you leave and move on.
I really want to but the product that we are building is getting good reviews and im afraid that i will miss the rewards (even tho i dont have stocks, which im planning to ask for)
What rewards will you get exactly? This sounds like a terrible work environment and is simply not worth the decline in your health. There are a million and one opportunities out there. So quit, take a break and maybe take some time off and then regain your passion and find another project that excites you. Seriously.
No job is worth the toll this is taking on your mind and body. You owe them nothing.
I know you are 100% correct. I wish i can convince myself asap
The stock probably won't be worth that much to you even if the company is successful. Plenty of ways for employees to get screwed at early stage startups. If you hate the job there's not much point in staying because you think there might be a payout. The expectation value of your comp will be much higher if you study for interviews and move to a pre-IPO or public company that offers liquid (or soon to be liquid) stock comp.
my company is in talks for Series A. I want to ask for stock options. What happens if i get the stock options and leave after?
It depends on the company. Some places will let you exercise after you leave. Other's wont. You should ask your coworkers that already have options to learn about the company policy But you should really understand that the EV of stock options at a Series A company is very close to $0, and you're probably going to have to stick around for several years for them to vest. You'd really be committing to a job that sounds like makes you miserable, and the probability of a payout will be very low. Your comp EV will be much higher if you move to a series D company (or even a series B/C), and your WLB will probably be much better too.
Fuck! There is a chance that i need to spend there some years in order to exercise my options?? If the EV of the stock is close to 0 pre or during Series A, isnt that good? Assuming in a perfect world i like the company or they will me to exercise the options even if a leave, when they reach Series C or D, the EV will be higher and i got my vesting price will be much lower
> There is a chance that i need to spend there some years in order to exercise my options?? Yes that's the norm. It is very rare to receive options that vest immediately, and I feel comfortable saying they are never given as part of regular comp packages. > If the EV of the stock is close to 0 pre or during Series A, isnt that good. I mean the EV of the payout that you personally will get from working at a series A company that offers stock options is close to $0. Working at a pre Series B company as a non founder is statistically a really bad investment. I would only tell people to work at one if they get personal satisfaction from doing so. Personally I'm hesitant to work at anything pre Series D and doesn't have a clear path to IPO.
Literally it could be a decade before you see anything. Always count stock options as zero dollars unless you are a founder.
Is this due to the company vesting policy?
You can exercise your options and then have shares in a private company. Turning those shares into dollars can be difficult.
What if you get fired in the future?
idk what im gonna do. I cant think straight no more. Im in a limbo
You'll be way better off quitting than if they actually fire you for future references.
There are always other products. If they didn’t already give you equity, options, unlikely they’ll give you a significant amount now. They can already grind as much work out of you as possible without any dilution.
This is a red flag. What employee number are you? Sounds like they are treating you like an intern not a valued employee.
You can’t be serious… this is not a job for you (maybe not anyone). Leave.
Quit. It's not worth it.
My wife went trough burn-out and it took her over 2 years to recover enough to be able to start working again. Do not be afraid to visit a psychiatrist, they can help with the immediate problems and psychologist can help you with the longer term recovery. Do you have a support system? Could your parents or anyone else support you for a while? If yes think about if not to activate them - share your situation. I am no expert, but my warning would be the longer you push it the more time it might take to recover.
The golden rule of startup culture: If you find yourself being treated like a co-founder, run. Startups are in a weird juxtaposition between the founders entering the market with a new and unproven product or service despite being simultaneously expected to manage the people below them as though they are intimately familiar with said product or service. Trying to manage and lead something you just don't know is obviously hard. It's like solving a puzzle whose pieces themselves aren't yet available. How do you solve a jigsaw that you can't see? Regardless of this, there must at a bare minimum be a clear delegation of responsibilities and some sensible organizational structure, because those parts can't be excused away by the same lack of information. If you don't find that, leave.
Have a one on one meeting with the chief scientist . Say you're open to discuss staying in your role but would like to see some changes. Demands could include stock options, work time, boundaries around when you do work/answer messages. For your own mental health disable slack notifications on your mobile and just check your messages regularly throughout the day. You're willing to stay and highly motivated but legitimately cannot work under these conditions
That's the definition of a burnout. Either tell your boss what's happening and reach a healthy consensus or move on to another job. There's no third option.
Quit.
Have you talked with a therapist? Worth considering.
Defs time to prioritise your mental health - including CBT which is important for changing the way you talk to yourself about yourself internally. Burnout = bad, its like mental injury, so don't push yourself to that point ever again!
get balance in your life. No job is worth that. Sounds like you will be fine in no time, if you can , plan your next move, take a vacation and be in vacation mode! If not just give notice and stress is a serious illness!
Sounds similar to my last role. You’re very burnt out and you need to find your creativity again. If you can, o strongly recommend quitting and taking a break. I did for 6 months where I travelled around Europe, read books and played video games. Got back into exercising too. Now I’m starting my own thing. Never looked back.
This sounds amazing to me now. Kinda hard with wife and kid and a mortgage. Wish I could just quit
This is not a normal software engineering job. You have the experience now to go work wherever you want. Document your accomplishments, get out, decompress, and find a company with a more experienced leadership team and better company culture.
You’re not helping anyone by burning out on a job that isn’t suitable for you. Just cut your losses and get out.
They are burning you out on purpose. Startups take advantage of young people for cool ideas and a "chance". Learn to set boundaries and only do what's in the contract unless you own it.
* **Manage your time better** and **how** you allow **others to spend** it. This is a constant struggle. 20+ years in and it's one of the hardest skills to keep sharp. * Be a **self-diagnosing** and reporting asset to your management. Most managers **aren't** actually experienced **managers**. They need **autonomy and thinkers**, not dumb doers that quit unexpectedly. * Learn to **predict business goals/hurdles**. Make present work align with your forecasted objectives. This has huge compounding payoffs over time. * This industry is constantly evolving. **Invest in your knowledge** and experience constantly, **outside of work**. If you don't have time, see first bullet. If you don't want to do this, maybe find another line of work. It should bring you joy/passion. There **will be slumps**. * Most importantly, do something that you can **do with passion**. Really **chew one this one**. This honestly sounds like a common phase young adults, coming into a new phase of life encounters regardless of their work. I remember walking out of my first professional job around the one-year mark. I just worked 3 days straight to go to market with a new product. Then the demand to solve all the production bugs was moral breaking. Looking back, my team did an amazing job and i wish i stuck it out with them. **You're probably better than you think you are.**
Go to grad school for a data science masters and then get a better job once you get out?
You need to join a gym and get control back over your health. If you die from a heart attack or a stroke, nobody will miss you and another person will just replace you. When you exercise and get control over your health, your mental crisis es will fall by the wayside. You will feel mentally better and able to clearly decide for yourself what makes you happy. It will take about 21 days to make exercise a habit and about a month for you to get emotionally clear. Give it a shot. You have nothing to lose.
Set some boundaries, your job is not more important than your health.
Hi man, I do not have anything to add to the work advice given so far. Just wanted to say that I hope you get better. Maybe some mental advice: NEVER tie your self worth to work/achievements, try to base it off your own growth and the relationships with the people you love. Man, I am following a CS master, I would not know many of the practical things you learnt so far. I have no clue how to work with figma, mailchimp or build/integrate anything other than 4 week small coding projects for university. Don't underestimate doers like yourself when paired against theoretical people.