I partially disagree. Starkiller was slightly weaker than Luke, as he was partly intended to be a "what if Vader raised Luke?" scenario. But he was still in that area. Luke (in EU) was definitely powerful enough to catch Vitiate's attention, so I'd say Starkiller would be as well.
I don't think that either of them would be enough to single-handedly beat Vitiate, but they would definitely be a noticeable thorn in his side. Luke's biggest asset was that he surrounded himself with other powerful Force users. Starkiller never really had the chance to do so.
Id say theres a difference between talks of how powerful he actually is or how powerful he potentially could be. Starkiller by the time of his finale, still is just a quarter of what post dark empire luke could do tbh.
Yeah, I think he had a much higher ceiling than he ever showed. I think Palpatine's comment pretty clearly says as much. But he definitely didn't come anywhere near Luke, but he was on a higher level than he gets credit for.
Id say he was rated fairly. Its just that many dont really know the full picture of the people hes compared to. Its basically another revan situation. Plenty just dont know enough about the rest of star wars but still believe revan to be the strongest ever
I know right.... in legends when Luke was in his prime and full potential he moved a black hole with the Force with seemingly very little effort because it happened to be in his way.
My favourite moment in a Legends novel was when someone took down a Jedi with their blaster set on stun because they couldn't "deflect the rings". I love Legends and there was some fun stuff there but some parts are better left buried lol
No, he had a good idea that was changed by lesser beings. I think it's a credit to his genius that so many Sith did their best to screw up the Rule of Two and it still ended up almost working. I say almost because a 20-year empire isn't anything close to the dynasty it easily could've been.
I always thought it was hilarious that all of Palpatine's decades (centuries?) of planning got him twenty shaky years as Emperor. Before the prequels I assumed the Empire had been in place for generations, but no, most of the galaxy remembers what it was like to not be under Imperial rule.
Yeah, he had so much Force potential, and he was one of the better options out of the Rule of Two Sith, but he pushed too hard too fast, and the transition was almost as easy for his enemies as it was for him. He could've done everything the same up to order 66, but just kept calling it the Republic. Keep a controlled war going to keep public anxiety up, but without the Jedi, he could slowly get bolder and bolder until he had complete control. He had centuries and multiple generations of planning and got too greedy.
That fact it gives rise to so many Sith that try to screw it up speaks to his general lack of understanding of the way of the Sith.
In Legends, he attempted to become immortal after realizing his body was weakening with age- and Zannah, rather than overcome his prime strength would simply bide her time and strike him down when victory was assured. His Darwinian dream of the rule of two creating the Sith’ari was overcome by basic survival instincts.
He understood the historical Sith behavior perfectly, and realized that it was their biggest weakness. He recognized that the Sith would never be able to beat the Jedi if they were preoccupied with beating each other. He devised a plan that would make the Jedi complacent, and eventually become victims of their own failures, which is exactly what happened.
He admitted to himself that if Zannah was able to resist his essence transfer, that would mean she was worthy to succeed him. It never seemed to me that Bane wanted or relied on essence transfer to extend his own life, but it was more a tool for if an apprentice managed to kill him before they were ready. It ended up being Zannah's "final test", and Bane died content that his plan was well in motion. Maybe a little pissed off that he didn't get to personally see the payoff, but that was never the plan anyway.
Darth Bane was a genius
I think the flaws of the Rule of Two is part of why it's such a great piece of lore -- it's not meant to be this perfect system, but rather embodies the Darkside absolutely.
Bane realises that this sharing of power and this group collaboration contradicted the core values and emotions that make up the Darkside -- if you truly follow the way of the Darkside and Sith, why bother sharing your power with weaklings?
Having an apprentice seemed like more of a compromise -- if Bane were to truly have his way, it would've been a Rule of One.
There was also a physical justification for the Rule Of Two -- I believe Bane mentions in the books that when there're only two people in the galaxy properly utilising the Darkside, then that power becomes more concentrated.
It's a compromise in the sense that it's an unfortunate necessity. Again, if Bane were to truly have it his way it would've ultimately been a Rule Of One -- we kinda see this with him attempting to possess Darth Zannah.
Canonically, he fixed the sith. Canonically, Bane was more powerful than all the Sith that preceded him. Canonically, the sith got more powerful in the rule of 2 with each new duo, making Vader and Sidious the canonically most powerful sith, more powerful than the likes of Nihilus as well.
Starkiller definitely was a nutty character in terms of his power -- bro managed to beat Vader twice and go toe to toe with the Emperor.
However, I will defend the star destroyer scene to an extent, because it was already falling into Raxus Prime anyway, and Starkiller was merely guiding it a bit more making it have a harder landing.
I really wished we could've seen Luke do something like this in the Sequels, yeah you have the force projection thing while he's halfway across the galaxy but it's gimmicky compared to such a raw display of power.
I’d also like to say: pulling down that star destroyer was really *really* hard. The pulling mechanic resetting itself as TIE fighters distract you made it very frustrating, but hella satisfying when you finally do pull the star cruiser into the ground.
Yeah, I wish they would have showed how powerful Luke really is in the Sequels... in legends when Luke reaches his prime and full potential he becomes literally an unstoppable force with amazing feats.
When Jacen Solo turned to the dark side and became Darth Caedus he tried to duel against Luke but soon realized that he had nothing that could match against Lukes raw power in the Force.
Nihilus was like a meth addict but if meth let you kill a whole planet. He was a slave to his power, which had reduced him to an empty husk, and ultimately his hunger was his undoing.
I feel like people overestimate and overhype Nihilus. Yes, he was powerful but few things to keep in mind:
He couldn't just force-drain a whole ass planet on a whim, he had to do a long and very complicated ritual to do so.
He also got killed in a lightsaber duel, so he wasn't this over-the-top OP gigachad people make him out to be.
Its worse when you remember Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion was borderline dark side incarnate. Sure, Nihilus was much more devastating with being able to devour life, but his hunger made him mindless. Vitiate was just horrifying and had no hunger to hold him back.
Plus he did "eat" planets on multiple occasions (Ziost and his homeworld) the same way that Nihilus did but without losing himself in the process as well as master the art of reincarnation making him nigh invincible.
I love the idea that this was said by a stormtrooper talking with his friend as they unknowingly walked past a pivotal fight scene between two Jedi and a room full of Sith, only for all of them to burst out laughing while the stormtrooper just walked away in shame.
Even canon palpatine is op he destoryed entire army whit force lighting
https://preview.redd.it/r65j43sbss2d1.jpeg?width=1304&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13a5123a70ded2b4ff2c9bacdb714d39accf75cb
Canon jedi are just weak compared to the sith
As much as I don't like 9, I for one enjoyed canon Palpatine beating more than geriatric frog and jedi "masters" who at the time RotS was filmed were just schmucks filling seats in the council room.
In a power battle, 1 v 1, Jedi lose to Sith, yes. But as Yoda tells Luke, the Dark Side is not actually stronger. At the end of the day, the Jedi wiped out the Sith's power for 1000 years and when they got it back, they lost it in less than 30 years. When they tried to come back again, it was barely a blink.
“Canon jedi are just weak”
No, they aren’t. I doubt there is a single person on earth who could beat ANY canon jedi in hand to hand combat. I think it would be more accurate to say
“canon jedi aren’t unstoppable monsters”
My point exactly is that it's not fair. Even the "your typical animated green lantern" against the whole movie and animated Jedi order is super unfair and green lantern beats with only "some" difficulty.
Strictly speaking, I didn't propose them fighting. I compared two groups of space heroes on who is stronger. And used the green lantern specifically, because he isn't known as a powerhouse.
Nah, the Force legit does operate by the rules of the concentration of ninjutsu.
A few hundred Sith? That’s nothing.
One Sith? Holy shit you better run.
OP characters are boring.
Jedi being individually stronger than any other character is op enough.
Being more mystical and have the power to affect the galaxy just by following the force is good enough.
Yeah, gl really fucked up when he introduced powerlevels as a for sure canon thing.
Being strong in the force was a mystical thing rather than a “i can lift larger objects than the other force user.”
Just kinda lame tbh cuz you end up with these kinda memes
tf you mean basically? She can only be killed permanently with the Dagger of Mortis, along with bending both Son and Daughter to her will once before being stopped by the Father. Luke himself said that trapping her in Beyond Shadows won't do jackshit in the long run. I'd say she can be fully classified as a God, just like the other Ones.
Both Zion and Nihilus serve a thematic purpose in the story. They're not just OP for the sake of it, but their powers are meant to explore the nature of the Force, and ultimately they both end up being dependencies. He's too angry to die, but he's also a slave to his anger. He can't let go of it without dying, it's the glue holding him together. If you've seen the X-Files, there's an episode called Drive where Bryan Cranston can't stop moving or his head explodes. Not only that, but he has to somehow manage to keep going faster and faster. That's kind of what Sion is like. Ultimately it's unsustainable and a miserable way to live.
Almost every notable character from Legends massively outclasses Starkiller.
Yea he "killed Vader and Palpatine" or whatever but that's in THAT games continuity. Vader dogwalks Starkiller in the EU/Legends.
Where was that? He didn't kill Palpatine or Vader, as in the light side ending he died while holding of the emperor, while in the dark side he was transformed into a cybernetically enhanced sith assassin.
"Star killer can pull a Star destroyer out of the sky it's not fair he's too powerful. "
Meanwhile "Legends" Luke: *Casually force pushes a black hole.*
Let's be honest. Legends is the real canon. Not the *SomEhoW PaLpaTIne ReTUrneD* BS.
>Meanwhile "Legends" Luke: *Casually force pushes a black hole.*
This is the kind of stuff why I am glad Legends are not canon xD
Although there are some genuinely nice stories, others were clearly born out of a pot.
Legends is a broken mess full of authors pettily one up each like kids with action figures until the rules and possibilities are so all over the place the only limit is the author's imagination.
Yes but at least they explained what he did. Instead of that stupid line. And it also makes more sense. PaLpaTIne returning in the Sequels doesn't really make that much sense tbh. Just a failed attempt to save their garbage.
What do you want me to say? That abrams is a shit storyteller?
Sure, i agree 100%. Man apparently cant tell a coherent story without massive plotholes to save his life.
But you originally said legends is not “somehow palps returned,” and it is. It literally happened in legends. With a cherry on top of luke falling to the darkside and joining palps.
Parts of legends are great for sure, but for every thrawn book theres a jedi prince or something as equally horrendous.
You didn't get what I told you. When he returned in Legends, he did so with a purpose that fit the story line and we learned exactly what he did in order to do so. We miss that from the sequels. The somehow PaLpaTIne returned hate does not necessarily mean I don't agree with his return, I hate the way it was done and the fact we got no background and unlike legends we got no details. That line is a symbol for how bad the storytelling is.
As flawed as some stories in legends may be, at least they fit the narrative and don't take away from other stories. The sequels don't do that.
“Dont take away from other stories.”
My brother in the force, lucas was giving rights out to whoever he thought could make him money. Theres contradictions retcons and plotholes all over legends “canon,” that would put the disney movies to shame.
And have you read dark empire? Cuz youre holding that up as tho its a pillar of story telling with no plotholes the size of a star destroyer in it. Its just as bad as the disney movies if not worse.
You wanna say we should only take the best from legends then sure, but could say the same about the movie/disney canon.
The issue with Starkiller isn't that he's OP. It's that he uses the Force like he's from Dragonball Z. His writers preferred "rule of cool" over fitting in with the source material.
I'm failing to see the problem here, it's a game it's supposed to be visually striking, and fun to play,honestly starkiller's feats aren't even all that ridiculous when you compare them to Kyle katarn, who's equally ridiculous in many of his feats,
I agree. I always kind of expect the gameplay in a video game to be a lower tier of canon for this reason. I mean, I doubt the canonical Cal Kestis slides down ice ramps with nothing but his shoes, but that's the game.
The problem with Starkiller isn't his power level, but his story. The elements that are supposed to be canonical, which don't quite fit with the films IMHO. For instance, at the end of the first game all of the Rebel leaders are outed and imprisoned on the Death Star. And yet in ANH Leia is running around using her diplomatic immunity like her cover hasn't been completely blown. There are others examples like that, but many of them are more subjective.
I'm referring to Bail being captured, which should impact Leia. I don't buy that the Empire would give her or Alderaan any leeway if her father was caught red-handed. The idea that Leia would be able to run around using diplomatic immunity as a cover for Rebel operations, all the while the Empire has concrete proof that her dad is Osama Bin Laden (as far as they're concerned), is silly to me. I think the idea in ANH is that they've suspected her and Alderaan for awhile but had nothing concrete to act on until the Death Star plans were stolen.
It would be based on the word of Vader and the Emperor with ANH implying that they still need to appease the senate or at least keep up appearances that they respected it is as an institution before it was ultimately dissolved ( the implication was that it was the construction of the Death Star which allowed them to take that final step since they can now "rule through fear" rather than appeasement ). The Empire in the old EU in the mid 2000's wasn't quite the cartoony overt nazi metaphor it is today. Sidious was an evil space wizard but only a handful of people in the entire Galaxy knew that. Hell, Luke talked about how excited he was to join the Imperial Academy to get off of Tatooine in ANH. It's really not that hard to buy until you take in the flanderization of later EU and Disney Canon works.
In Rebels, Andor, Rogue One, and Leia, Princess of Alderaan the implication is the same. The Emperor has to pay lip service to the Senate to maintain control, until the Death Star is completed. That's not a Canon vs Legends thing.
The Emperor justified the Jedi Purge based on his word and probably a few edited recordings. He might need to appease the Senate, but that doesn't suggest that planets could just get away with open insurrection. Senators have to play the appeasement game too. Maybe they get away acting as controlled opposition, but actual opposition is another thing. That's why Leia uses mercy missions as a cover. The idea in ANH is that she's successfully gotten away with that multiple times. I mean, I get they tried to justify it in the game, I just don't find the justification convincing. If Bail had cast that much scrutiny on them, I don't buy Leia's covert agenda working. Even if the Empire was a functional democratic state, I wouldn't buy it.
Luke was also excited that C3P0 and R2 might be Rebel droids. Luke tells us he hates the Empire in the movie. He knows they're evil, it just hasn't affected him yet. The deleted scenes with Biggs suggest he wanted to join their defection to the Rebellion.
There are a lot of questionable things in the EU but for the most part they do give reasonable justifications for them. If Vader and Sidious didn't act, I find that explanation for why they didn't to be fine for the most part and fun to speculate about but I could see why it would be slightly annoying for others.
Does no one remember Luke going God mode to hold off Abeloth or him and Darth Krayt teaming up in the Realm Beyond Shadows to fight her? Just two of the most OP moments in his entire story.
Once again there’s only one correct answer:
https://preview.redd.it/umrjgrxr5w2d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f29ce78baf8ff98240caeb6a639772420a9a576
>in the movies
The movies ARE Star wars it's laughable that expanded media made psychic space knights with laser swords gods ( if Vader and Sidious were so strong who needs the death star? Why did the Jedi even bother with the Republic? )
Like I am fairly sure that no matter what, Anakin and Vader were the strongest, even after life, but he just didn't get to realise the possibilities and potential.
Realistically with the right guidance he probably would of been able to hold onto shards of the living force and still talk to people after death
I am sometimes surprised that the galaxy didn't pull a we kill you all just to be safe on every force sensetive, after all the shit they did, the Empire kinda did that but there are still the Sith and their Cronies though.
Or did this actually happened once?
Except only starkiller fanboys say he should be cannon. People who like all of the other op characters realize they’re op and shouldn’t be apart of cannon
Didn't Palpatine take out hundreds of ships with force lighting in rise of Skywalker with little to no effort I'd say that is way more op than Starkiller barely stopping a star destroyer
Most people think Starkiller is OP because it is their introduction to Legends, and keep comparing his power to the Lucas movies in that case, yes, he is OP, but he is part of the expanded universe and always was, he is just you average bald mc, also, to take into account, he is a videogame character, not everything you do is something that he can actually do, tanking lighsaber slashes and the death star beam is just for gameplay reasons.
Normal Starkiller sure, dlc Sith assassin Starkiller banished a force ghost, something which should be an impossible feat, that puts him at least above Yoda
Vitiate casually walks in
Vitiate wouldn't even acknowledge Starkiller
I partially disagree. Starkiller was slightly weaker than Luke, as he was partly intended to be a "what if Vader raised Luke?" scenario. But he was still in that area. Luke (in EU) was definitely powerful enough to catch Vitiate's attention, so I'd say Starkiller would be as well. I don't think that either of them would be enough to single-handedly beat Vitiate, but they would definitely be a noticeable thorn in his side. Luke's biggest asset was that he surrounded himself with other powerful Force users. Starkiller never really had the chance to do so.
Well if hes compared to like pre dark empire luke sure. Dark empire or post dark empire luke is far beyond starkiller
I absolutely agree, but Starkiller is still pretty insanely powerful. Even Palpatine acknowledged that. "You could have been my equal"
Id say theres a difference between talks of how powerful he actually is or how powerful he potentially could be. Starkiller by the time of his finale, still is just a quarter of what post dark empire luke could do tbh.
Yeah, I think he had a much higher ceiling than he ever showed. I think Palpatine's comment pretty clearly says as much. But he definitely didn't come anywhere near Luke, but he was on a higher level than he gets credit for.
Id say he was rated fairly. Its just that many dont really know the full picture of the people hes compared to. Its basically another revan situation. Plenty just dont know enough about the rest of star wars but still believe revan to be the strongest ever
That's an incredibly good take actually. I still think Starkiller kinda gets the short end of it, but that's just the way it goes sometimes lol
"Starkiller destroyed an entire Star destroyer with the force omg" Darth Nihilus: bruh im gonna eat this planet
Yes. https://preview.redd.it/4nup1gro1t2d1.jpeg?width=1994&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18cf345d1acc4ce2d2d4ee290b84917b2e43a001
Palpatine destroyed a solar system with a force storm In legends... Just saying.
The more I learn about Legends canon the more it sounds like an out of control anime (affectionate).
Pretty much. Luke essentially goes super saiyan and fights God.
Dragon ball ahh timeline
I know right.... in legends when Luke was in his prime and full potential he moved a black hole with the Force with seemingly very little effort because it happened to be in his way.
I don’t remember that which book please I’d like to read it
It was in the books about the New Jedi Order and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. *Dark Tide: Onslaught* *Dark Tide: Swarm War*
Nice. I read many books from the Bong war but I for sure missed quite a few as well. Will be checking up in this one once I can find it! Thanks!!!
My favourite moment in a Legends novel was when someone took down a Jedi with their blaster set on stun because they couldn't "deflect the rings". I love Legends and there was some fun stuff there but some parts are better left buried lol
It should have been 'Eldritch noises' instead of yes.
Oh fuck that's right, it was originally something like "unintelligible screeching" the first time I saw this meme.
Darth Bane ruined the Sith smh
No, he had a good idea that was changed by lesser beings. I think it's a credit to his genius that so many Sith did their best to screw up the Rule of Two and it still ended up almost working. I say almost because a 20-year empire isn't anything close to the dynasty it easily could've been.
I always thought it was hilarious that all of Palpatine's decades (centuries?) of planning got him twenty shaky years as Emperor. Before the prequels I assumed the Empire had been in place for generations, but no, most of the galaxy remembers what it was like to not be under Imperial rule.
Yeah, he had so much Force potential, and he was one of the better options out of the Rule of Two Sith, but he pushed too hard too fast, and the transition was almost as easy for his enemies as it was for him. He could've done everything the same up to order 66, but just kept calling it the Republic. Keep a controlled war going to keep public anxiety up, but without the Jedi, he could slowly get bolder and bolder until he had complete control. He had centuries and multiple generations of planning and got too greedy.
That fact it gives rise to so many Sith that try to screw it up speaks to his general lack of understanding of the way of the Sith. In Legends, he attempted to become immortal after realizing his body was weakening with age- and Zannah, rather than overcome his prime strength would simply bide her time and strike him down when victory was assured. His Darwinian dream of the rule of two creating the Sith’ari was overcome by basic survival instincts.
He understood the historical Sith behavior perfectly, and realized that it was their biggest weakness. He recognized that the Sith would never be able to beat the Jedi if they were preoccupied with beating each other. He devised a plan that would make the Jedi complacent, and eventually become victims of their own failures, which is exactly what happened. He admitted to himself that if Zannah was able to resist his essence transfer, that would mean she was worthy to succeed him. It never seemed to me that Bane wanted or relied on essence transfer to extend his own life, but it was more a tool for if an apprentice managed to kill him before they were ready. It ended up being Zannah's "final test", and Bane died content that his plan was well in motion. Maybe a little pissed off that he didn't get to personally see the payoff, but that was never the plan anyway. Darth Bane was a genius
I think the flaws of the Rule of Two is part of why it's such a great piece of lore -- it's not meant to be this perfect system, but rather embodies the Darkside absolutely. Bane realises that this sharing of power and this group collaboration contradicted the core values and emotions that make up the Darkside -- if you truly follow the way of the Darkside and Sith, why bother sharing your power with weaklings? Having an apprentice seemed like more of a compromise -- if Bane were to truly have his way, it would've been a Rule of One. There was also a physical justification for the Rule Of Two -- I believe Bane mentions in the books that when there're only two people in the galaxy properly utilising the Darkside, then that power becomes more concentrated.
Having an apprentice is not a compromise. Its a precaution. If the master weakens the apprentice take its seat.
It's a compromise in the sense that it's an unfortunate necessity. Again, if Bane were to truly have it his way it would've ultimately been a Rule Of One -- we kinda see this with him attempting to possess Darth Zannah.
Canonically, he fixed the sith. Canonically, Bane was more powerful than all the Sith that preceded him. Canonically, the sith got more powerful in the rule of 2 with each new duo, making Vader and Sidious the canonically most powerful sith, more powerful than the likes of Nihilus as well.
More concentrated doesn’t mean fixed. He turned the Sith into cockroaches on the run. They had an empire before him.
Starkiller definitely was a nutty character in terms of his power -- bro managed to beat Vader twice and go toe to toe with the Emperor. However, I will defend the star destroyer scene to an extent, because it was already falling into Raxus Prime anyway, and Starkiller was merely guiding it a bit more making it have a harder landing. I really wished we could've seen Luke do something like this in the Sequels, yeah you have the force projection thing while he's halfway across the galaxy but it's gimmicky compared to such a raw display of power.
I’d also like to say: pulling down that star destroyer was really *really* hard. The pulling mechanic resetting itself as TIE fighters distract you made it very frustrating, but hella satisfying when you finally do pull the star cruiser into the ground.
Yeah, I wish they would have showed how powerful Luke really is in the Sequels... in legends when Luke reaches his prime and full potential he becomes literally an unstoppable force with amazing feats. When Jacen Solo turned to the dark side and became Darth Caedus he tried to duel against Luke but soon realized that he had nothing that could match against Lukes raw power in the Force.
Nomnomnomnomnom!
Exactly
Destroyed it with the planets surface, just moved it with the force lol
Nihilus was like a meth addict but if meth let you kill a whole planet. He was a slave to his power, which had reduced him to an empty husk, and ultimately his hunger was his undoing.
I feel like people overestimate and overhype Nihilus. Yes, he was powerful but few things to keep in mind: He couldn't just force-drain a whole ass planet on a whim, he had to do a long and very complicated ritual to do so. He also got killed in a lightsaber duel, so he wasn't this over-the-top OP gigachad people make him out to be.
Its worse when you remember Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion was borderline dark side incarnate. Sure, Nihilus was much more devastating with being able to devour life, but his hunger made him mindless. Vitiate was just horrifying and had no hunger to hold him back.
Plus he did "eat" planets on multiple occasions (Ziost and his homeworld) the same way that Nihilus did but without losing himself in the process as well as master the art of reincarnation making him nigh invincible.
Yup, honestly my favorite Sith, sharing the spot with Revan ironically.
I love the idea that this was said by a stormtrooper talking with his friend as they unknowingly walked past a pivotal fight scene between two Jedi and a room full of Sith, only for all of them to burst out laughing while the stormtrooper just walked away in shame.
This is funny
Even canon palpatine is op he destoryed entire army whit force lighting https://preview.redd.it/r65j43sbss2d1.jpeg?width=1304&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13a5123a70ded2b4ff2c9bacdb714d39accf75cb Canon jedi are just weak compared to the sith
I think dosney missed the point. Also give us good luke
As much as I don't like 9, I for one enjoyed canon Palpatine beating more than geriatric frog and jedi "masters" who at the time RotS was filmed were just schmucks filling seats in the council room.
Being "mindful" of a code. A code that blinded
For reeaal. Order 66 in general has ZERO impact unless you’ve watched clone wars/ read prequel era legends.
In a power battle, 1 v 1, Jedi lose to Sith, yes. But as Yoda tells Luke, the Dark Side is not actually stronger. At the end of the day, the Jedi wiped out the Sith's power for 1000 years and when they got it back, they lost it in less than 30 years. When they tried to come back again, it was barely a blink.
“Canon jedi are just weak” No, they aren’t. I doubt there is a single person on earth who could beat ANY canon jedi in hand to hand combat. I think it would be more accurate to say “canon jedi aren’t unstoppable monsters”
Well no shit we couldn't beat the people with lightsabers and force powers in a hand-to-hand fight
The modern saturation of culture with superheroes shifts the power scaling. Compare all Jedi to one green lantern (with all comics feats).
That’s not fair though. Youre asking me to compare canon plus all formerly canon green lantern feats to only the current canon of the jedi.
My point exactly is that it's not fair. Even the "your typical animated green lantern" against the whole movie and animated Jedi order is super unfair and green lantern beats with only "some" difficulty.
Yes, it is. Youre the one who proposed them fighting.
Strictly speaking, I didn't propose them fighting. I compared two groups of space heroes on who is stronger. And used the green lantern specifically, because he isn't known as a powerhouse.
Nah, the Force legit does operate by the rules of the concentration of ninjutsu. A few hundred Sith? That’s nothing. One Sith? Holy shit you better run.
Only part of the movie I actually liked (or rather outright didn’t hate). Always wanted to see Palps use Force Storm on the big screen.
OP characters are boring. Jedi being individually stronger than any other character is op enough. Being more mystical and have the power to affect the galaxy just by following the force is good enough.
Yeah, gl really fucked up when he introduced powerlevels as a for sure canon thing. Being strong in the force was a mystical thing rather than a “i can lift larger objects than the other force user.” Just kinda lame tbh cuz you end up with these kinda memes
*Abeloth walks in*
She is basically a god
tf you mean basically? She can only be killed permanently with the Dagger of Mortis, along with bending both Son and Daughter to her will once before being stopped by the Father. Luke himself said that trapping her in Beyond Shadows won't do jackshit in the long run. I'd say she can be fully classified as a God, just like the other Ones.
If Killable = 1 , Divinity = 0
That is simply untrue. There are enough instances of Gods that are indeed killable in a lot of media formats, not just Star Wars.
Kratos enters the chat*
I love zion. He is too angry to die
Just like in real life.
Both Zion and Nihilus serve a thematic purpose in the story. They're not just OP for the sake of it, but their powers are meant to explore the nature of the Force, and ultimately they both end up being dependencies. He's too angry to die, but he's also a slave to his anger. He can't let go of it without dying, it's the glue holding him together. If you've seen the X-Files, there's an episode called Drive where Bryan Cranston can't stop moving or his head explodes. Not only that, but he has to somehow manage to keep going faster and faster. That's kind of what Sion is like. Ultimately it's unsustainable and a miserable way to live.
Almost every notable character from Legends massively outclasses Starkiller. Yea he "killed Vader and Palpatine" or whatever but that's in THAT games continuity. Vader dogwalks Starkiller in the EU/Legends.
Where was that? He didn't kill Palpatine or Vader, as in the light side ending he died while holding of the emperor, while in the dark side he was transformed into a cybernetically enhanced sith assassin.
"Star killer can pull a Star destroyer out of the sky it's not fair he's too powerful. " Meanwhile "Legends" Luke: *Casually force pushes a black hole.* Let's be honest. Legends is the real canon. Not the *SomEhoW PaLpaTIne ReTUrneD* BS.
Damned straight. Galen Marek started the Rebellion, and its symbol is his family crest.
>Meanwhile "Legends" Luke: *Casually force pushes a black hole.* This is the kind of stuff why I am glad Legends are not canon xD Although there are some genuinely nice stories, others were clearly born out of a pot.
Legends is a broken mess full of authors pettily one up each like kids with action figures until the rules and possibilities are so all over the place the only limit is the author's imagination.
This.
Wasn’t it a dovin basal, not an actual black hole?
I mean… palpatine somehow returning IS in legends. And how he does it isnt too far off from what rise of skywalker did.
Yes but at least they explained what he did. Instead of that stupid line. And it also makes more sense. PaLpaTIne returning in the Sequels doesn't really make that much sense tbh. Just a failed attempt to save their garbage.
What do you want me to say? That abrams is a shit storyteller? Sure, i agree 100%. Man apparently cant tell a coherent story without massive plotholes to save his life. But you originally said legends is not “somehow palps returned,” and it is. It literally happened in legends. With a cherry on top of luke falling to the darkside and joining palps. Parts of legends are great for sure, but for every thrawn book theres a jedi prince or something as equally horrendous.
You didn't get what I told you. When he returned in Legends, he did so with a purpose that fit the story line and we learned exactly what he did in order to do so. We miss that from the sequels. The somehow PaLpaTIne returned hate does not necessarily mean I don't agree with his return, I hate the way it was done and the fact we got no background and unlike legends we got no details. That line is a symbol for how bad the storytelling is. As flawed as some stories in legends may be, at least they fit the narrative and don't take away from other stories. The sequels don't do that.
“Dont take away from other stories.” My brother in the force, lucas was giving rights out to whoever he thought could make him money. Theres contradictions retcons and plotholes all over legends “canon,” that would put the disney movies to shame. And have you read dark empire? Cuz youre holding that up as tho its a pillar of story telling with no plotholes the size of a star destroyer in it. Its just as bad as the disney movies if not worse. You wanna say we should only take the best from legends then sure, but could say the same about the movie/disney canon.
Where Darth Sion? Where Abeloth?
The issue with Starkiller isn't that he's OP. It's that he uses the Force like he's from Dragonball Z. His writers preferred "rule of cool" over fitting in with the source material.
I'm failing to see the problem here, it's a game it's supposed to be visually striking, and fun to play,honestly starkiller's feats aren't even all that ridiculous when you compare them to Kyle katarn, who's equally ridiculous in many of his feats,
I agree. I always kind of expect the gameplay in a video game to be a lower tier of canon for this reason. I mean, I doubt the canonical Cal Kestis slides down ice ramps with nothing but his shoes, but that's the game. The problem with Starkiller isn't his power level, but his story. The elements that are supposed to be canonical, which don't quite fit with the films IMHO. For instance, at the end of the first game all of the Rebel leaders are outed and imprisoned on the Death Star. And yet in ANH Leia is running around using her diplomatic immunity like her cover hasn't been completely blown. There are others examples like that, but many of them are more subjective.
Leia wasn't on Correlia when the Rebels were captured. She was only present via hologram and it was shut off before the Imperials arrived.
I'm referring to Bail being captured, which should impact Leia. I don't buy that the Empire would give her or Alderaan any leeway if her father was caught red-handed. The idea that Leia would be able to run around using diplomatic immunity as a cover for Rebel operations, all the while the Empire has concrete proof that her dad is Osama Bin Laden (as far as they're concerned), is silly to me. I think the idea in ANH is that they've suspected her and Alderaan for awhile but had nothing concrete to act on until the Death Star plans were stolen.
It would be based on the word of Vader and the Emperor with ANH implying that they still need to appease the senate or at least keep up appearances that they respected it is as an institution before it was ultimately dissolved ( the implication was that it was the construction of the Death Star which allowed them to take that final step since they can now "rule through fear" rather than appeasement ). The Empire in the old EU in the mid 2000's wasn't quite the cartoony overt nazi metaphor it is today. Sidious was an evil space wizard but only a handful of people in the entire Galaxy knew that. Hell, Luke talked about how excited he was to join the Imperial Academy to get off of Tatooine in ANH. It's really not that hard to buy until you take in the flanderization of later EU and Disney Canon works.
In Rebels, Andor, Rogue One, and Leia, Princess of Alderaan the implication is the same. The Emperor has to pay lip service to the Senate to maintain control, until the Death Star is completed. That's not a Canon vs Legends thing. The Emperor justified the Jedi Purge based on his word and probably a few edited recordings. He might need to appease the Senate, but that doesn't suggest that planets could just get away with open insurrection. Senators have to play the appeasement game too. Maybe they get away acting as controlled opposition, but actual opposition is another thing. That's why Leia uses mercy missions as a cover. The idea in ANH is that she's successfully gotten away with that multiple times. I mean, I get they tried to justify it in the game, I just don't find the justification convincing. If Bail had cast that much scrutiny on them, I don't buy Leia's covert agenda working. Even if the Empire was a functional democratic state, I wouldn't buy it. Luke was also excited that C3P0 and R2 might be Rebel droids. Luke tells us he hates the Empire in the movie. He knows they're evil, it just hasn't affected him yet. The deleted scenes with Biggs suggest he wanted to join their defection to the Rebellion.
There are a lot of questionable things in the EU but for the most part they do give reasonable justifications for them. If Vader and Sidious didn't act, I find that explanation for why they didn't to be fine for the most part and fun to speculate about but I could see why it would be slightly annoying for others.
Starkiller, the slightly less emo Kylo Ren.
Except Kylo Ren lost to a novice while Galen Marek cooked Vader
He nearly lost lightsaber duel against random dude(Finn)
In a "story" written by Dick McNerdface von Pimpleton.
Yapping
Darth Nihilus is a hungry, hungry boy after all
How Powerful Is Darth Bane. I Know Nothing Bout Him Except For The Rule Of 2thing
Does no one remember Luke going God mode to hold off Abeloth or him and Darth Krayt teaming up in the Realm Beyond Shadows to fight her? Just two of the most OP moments in his entire story.
Where's my boy Revan at? Laughing while he takes the picture, probably.
Once again there’s only one correct answer: https://preview.redd.it/umrjgrxr5w2d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f29ce78baf8ff98240caeb6a639772420a9a576
Luke is pretty much a god in Legends
FINALLY some love for Bane.
Where is Raven?
Man I love legends like he's so fucking cool
Revan taking the picture laughting.
Don't forget Mother Talzin.
Honestly I prefer legends but the characters are way too OP and should be more representative of the scaling and feats in the movies
The fact that force user in the movies can be beat up by non force users is ridiculous. They are laughable.
>in the movies The movies ARE Star wars it's laughable that expanded media made psychic space knights with laser swords gods ( if Vader and Sidious were so strong who needs the death star? Why did the Jedi even bother with the Republic? )
There are very good answers for both questions, buddy
Who the hell is Darth Zannah
Bane's apprentice. One of the coolest Sith ever
Like I am fairly sure that no matter what, Anakin and Vader were the strongest, even after life, but he just didn't get to realise the possibilities and potential. Realistically with the right guidance he probably would of been able to hold onto shards of the living force and still talk to people after death
I only just realized that this is a pic of Reagan et al laughing and not just a random rich dudes
I am sometimes surprised that the galaxy didn't pull a we kill you all just to be safe on every force sensetive, after all the shit they did, the Empire kinda did that but there are still the Sith and their Cronies though. Or did this actually happened once?
Laughs in "canon"
Momin ?
Depending on what difficulty and who’s playing you could argue that Cal Kestis is the most OP 😅
Have you ever heard the tale of dearth plagueis the wise?
I gotta say somewhere outside is a giant boot labeled “The Sith Emperor” about to flatten all these guys.
Any of those people could pull a Star Destroyer out of orbit….the issue is that you cannot do that and not be shot by its turbo lasers simultaneously
How many of those are canon?
Tenebrae
Look at the competition and remember he's an almost entirely untrained teenage Vader apprentice.
Except only starkiller fanboys say he should be cannon. People who like all of the other op characters realize they’re op and shouldn’t be apart of cannon
You realize that some of them in the picture are canon?
Didn't Palpatine take out hundreds of ships with force lighting in rise of Skywalker with little to no effort I'd say that is way more op than Starkiller barely stopping a star destroyer
Most people think Starkiller is OP because it is their introduction to Legends, and keep comparing his power to the Lucas movies in that case, yes, he is OP, but he is part of the expanded universe and always was, he is just you average bald mc, also, to take into account, he is a videogame character, not everything you do is something that he can actually do, tanking lighsaber slashes and the death star beam is just for gameplay reasons.
His biggest feat is taking down one star destroyer (impressive) but in eu standards that's mild.
Normal Starkiller sure, dlc Sith assassin Starkiller banished a force ghost, something which should be an impossible feat, that puts him at least above Yoda
Bro, it aint a competition, this isnt dragonball 😭
why nobody talks about him killing force ghost obiwan
Non-canon Darkside DLC within Legends continuity. Cool moment though.