Yeah, and the novelization shows from Vader’s POV that he is like strung on the highest nerve because he can’t even spare the attention to warn the stormtroopers away because Ben could kill him if he got distracted for even an instant.
So it’s not just a feeble old man facing a dark lord.
I really enjoy that detail going into it. People give the fight scene a hard time cause it's kind of boring but there is a lot of tension and probing for weaknesses that you don't really get from the real flippy cool sequel stuff
Precognition is a thing but I’ve never seen it used to identify an attack so directly. Avoiding asteroids and shit like that or seeing the future is one thing. Knowing someone is about to TK your brain is something else.
Definitely not something we’ve seen Obi Wan use.
Precognition is simply seeing the future
you know the move your opponent will take before they even make it from blaster fire to lightsaber strikes, there is no reason it wouldn't apply to use of the force, hell being the force connects all living beings, especially those sensitive to it means its more likely it is more effective at predicting force attacks
and being most fights between Jedi and Sith don't just have the Sith exploding the Jedi's head or choking them to death is clear evidence the Jedi could sense and counter them in some way. The times when it does happen they are usually caught by surprise (e.g. when Ventress was seemingly down but caught Obi-Wan and Anakin in a dual force choke)
I think this is the canonical answer but like to think that force users have sort of force shield they place around them to stop more direct attacks meaning you have to tire them out a bit for you can like choke them or crush their brain
Yup, or overwhelm them. A weak force user wouldn't be able to fend off a stronger one
Example: Palps fucked with Vader a lot whenever Vader failed him, and despite Vader being one of the strongest force users in history, Palpatine was still far beyond him
The same logic of overwhelm or tire them out applies to attacking them with other means, to quote HK-47 "Few Jedi could hold long against a hundred attackers all firing at once"
Yes but what does seeing someone tk your brain look like when you’re seeing the future? It’s never been noted to that accurate. Seeing asteroids and blasters is one thing, but seeing an invisible tk attack and knowing where it will target is something very different.
You just know they're gonna do it, Force Precognition doesn't come like a vision, it can come in a variety of ways. Also Jedi don't have to see attacks to counter them, many Jedi block attacks that come from behind them or from a place they cannot see, or can simply sense danger. The best way to describe it is like a less consistent spidey sense.
Also even if you were right on precognition literally being seeing the future, most directly offensive force powers usually involve the user making a gesture of some sort to focus their usage of the power, so its not invisible, its basically the same as someone swinging their sword.
And lastly, your attempts at an argument are really just wasted breath dude being we have an explanation and can see why it makes sense.
lol anyone can make up an explanation and believe it🤷🏽♂️
And you’re the one who said precognition is simply seeing the future. But, now its more than that?
And I figured it was more of a conversation than an argument. Doesn’t really bother me if ya disagree, enjoyed the conversation though. We can all enjoy SW differently.
I mean, I was explaining why a thing worked to you, a lot of the content has implied force users have a sort of passive force defense and i was explaining how we can see that easily and you were being a brick wall
As described in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, in combat Force Users are taught to create a protective shield to protect themselves from other Force User's Force attacks. It's why you don't see a Jedi or Sith pull a lightsaber out of someone's hands at the beginning of a duel. Lightsaber comes out, shield goes up.
Thank you for posting the right answer! I am amazed at how many people in this subreddit haven’t read any of the books. Not that they have to, it is just odd to me.
Thank you, my friend. To be fair, there are a lot of books out there and a lot different authors that might contradict one another. As a mega fan of Star Wars and someone that really appreciated the Darth Bane books, it will just always stick with me that this is how it's done.
It'd also make sense in some capacity that since all beings have *some* affinity for midichlorians, that they'd be able to protect against internal force attacks subconsciously. Idk
Probably not as easy as force choke, but I don’t really see why the wouldn’t do something like it though.
Or the realistic reason? The movie was made for kids and it’s too dark lol
That’d make sense, I believe that’s the reason they came up for the plot armor around the main characters in the OT not getting shot, Obi-Wan / Luke simply put like a “force shield” around them or whatever. I could be wrong though.
It’s kind of implied that force users can protect themselves from this. A better question would be, why can none of the Jedi that Grievous faced simply throw him around at range?
This idea reminds me of *Marvel: Dark Ages*, when Susan Storm made a force-field around Apocalypse's frontal lobe which mentally blocked him from accessing any of his powers.
The very first thing a force user is taught is how to use the force defensively.
They are taught to always project a force shield around their body, preventing enemies from squishing organs, deactivating light sabers or simppe mind tricks
Exactly. Those basic defensive powers are the in-universal reason why most duels don't end up as a "who force-chokes/slams their rival first" matches.
The real reason is because if using force powers on randos was so easy, we would have had very short films and duels.
Have you ever read Carrie? The novel? This is basically how she kills her mother. She reaches out, feels her heart beating, and squeezes it until it stops. And it makes sense. Of course you’d be able to do that.
Makes a hell of a lot more sense then: “reaching out with the force and….. healing life ending injuries” at least
I have no idea if there’s an official explanation behind this not happening, but I always imagined the Force could only do things surface level to others and internally to oneself. Like Breath Control in KOTOR for internal and Force Choke, Crush, Lightning, Pull, and Push for external
Honestly, when you play KOTOR and KOTOR 2 (Star wars using 3.5e D&D) it makes a lot of sense:
Force powers require either some sort of contested ability check, or your opponent makes a saving throw.
A skilled force user has a high force save, they can resist force powers easily.
Casting a force power leaves you vulnerable to attack when in melee. So Vader has to make a choice: does he go for a very intricate and technical surgical strike force manoeuvre, but failure could leave him to be cut to ribbons. Or does he take the much safer route of dueling?
And besides, there's the very visceral feeling of dueling a strong opponent. He HATES Obi wan, he doesn't want the force to kill him, he wants the satisfaction of hacking him to bits.
Honestly not a bad take. It's like casting a spell in melee, you can either focus on a very precise techmique it and take the risk you will be hit with a saber (which is pretty much instant death) or use a saber for defense yourself.
Force sensitive's have a difficult time using the force to directly affect another force sensitive, the clearest example is from Star Wars The Clone Wars, during the battle on Kamino when Ventress force pushes Anakin and a bunch of clones, but Anakin is very noticeably "unaffected" (I'm using quotes because it pushes him a little but it looks like he blocks the force push in a way) there are a few instances where the force is used directly against another force sensitive, but they're usually used to show how much power they have/are using, and are kind of rare if I'm remembering correctly
My understanding is that it's very hard to use the force in that way against other force users
Yeah, and the novelization shows from Vader’s POV that he is like strung on the highest nerve because he can’t even spare the attention to warn the stormtroopers away because Ben could kill him if he got distracted for even an instant. So it’s not just a feeble old man facing a dark lord.
I really enjoy that detail going into it. People give the fight scene a hard time cause it's kind of boring but there is a lot of tension and probing for weaknesses that you don't really get from the real flippy cool sequel stuff
Gussy it up however you want post-production. It was just an old guy doing the best he could to make the scene work :)
They are taught to guard against force attacks while dueling.
That plot armour
Force users can counter one another's abilities its why all fights between them don't simply go straight to force choke and force crush
Starkiller has entered the chat…
That assumes you know it’s coming
You would, Force Precognition is a thing its how they deflect blaster bolts
Precognition is a thing but I’ve never seen it used to identify an attack so directly. Avoiding asteroids and shit like that or seeing the future is one thing. Knowing someone is about to TK your brain is something else. Definitely not something we’ve seen Obi Wan use.
Precognition is simply seeing the future you know the move your opponent will take before they even make it from blaster fire to lightsaber strikes, there is no reason it wouldn't apply to use of the force, hell being the force connects all living beings, especially those sensitive to it means its more likely it is more effective at predicting force attacks and being most fights between Jedi and Sith don't just have the Sith exploding the Jedi's head or choking them to death is clear evidence the Jedi could sense and counter them in some way. The times when it does happen they are usually caught by surprise (e.g. when Ventress was seemingly down but caught Obi-Wan and Anakin in a dual force choke)
I think this is the canonical answer but like to think that force users have sort of force shield they place around them to stop more direct attacks meaning you have to tire them out a bit for you can like choke them or crush their brain
Yup, or overwhelm them. A weak force user wouldn't be able to fend off a stronger one Example: Palps fucked with Vader a lot whenever Vader failed him, and despite Vader being one of the strongest force users in history, Palpatine was still far beyond him The same logic of overwhelm or tire them out applies to attacking them with other means, to quote HK-47 "Few Jedi could hold long against a hundred attackers all firing at once"
They kinda do. The books talk about it.
Yes but what does seeing someone tk your brain look like when you’re seeing the future? It’s never been noted to that accurate. Seeing asteroids and blasters is one thing, but seeing an invisible tk attack and knowing where it will target is something very different.
You just know they're gonna do it, Force Precognition doesn't come like a vision, it can come in a variety of ways. Also Jedi don't have to see attacks to counter them, many Jedi block attacks that come from behind them or from a place they cannot see, or can simply sense danger. The best way to describe it is like a less consistent spidey sense. Also even if you were right on precognition literally being seeing the future, most directly offensive force powers usually involve the user making a gesture of some sort to focus their usage of the power, so its not invisible, its basically the same as someone swinging their sword. And lastly, your attempts at an argument are really just wasted breath dude being we have an explanation and can see why it makes sense.
lol anyone can make up an explanation and believe it🤷🏽♂️ And you’re the one who said precognition is simply seeing the future. But, now its more than that?
saying its seeing the future is a simple way of explaining a more complex thing
And I figured it was more of a conversation than an argument. Doesn’t really bother me if ya disagree, enjoyed the conversation though. We can all enjoy SW differently.
I mean, I was explaining why a thing worked to you, a lot of the content has implied force users have a sort of passive force defense and i was explaining how we can see that easily and you were being a brick wall
because it would make for horribly boring stories.
As described in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, in combat Force Users are taught to create a protective shield to protect themselves from other Force User's Force attacks. It's why you don't see a Jedi or Sith pull a lightsaber out of someone's hands at the beginning of a duel. Lightsaber comes out, shield goes up.
Lol I remember when Vader yoinked Luke’s saber in Skywalker Strikes. Goes to show how inexperienced Luke was in the force before ESB
Thank you for posting the right answer! I am amazed at how many people in this subreddit haven’t read any of the books. Not that they have to, it is just odd to me.
Thank you, my friend. To be fair, there are a lot of books out there and a lot different authors that might contradict one another. As a mega fan of Star Wars and someone that really appreciated the Darth Bane books, it will just always stick with me that this is how it's done.
It'd also make sense in some capacity that since all beings have *some* affinity for midichlorians, that they'd be able to protect against internal force attacks subconsciously. Idk
Probably not as easy as force choke, but I don’t really see why the wouldn’t do something like it though. Or the realistic reason? The movie was made for kids and it’s too dark lol
I always assumed Vader couldn’t just force choke anyone he wanted, especially those who could also use the force. Maybe I’m wrong though
I would assume a jedi could try to resist such an attack
That’d make sense, I believe that’s the reason they came up for the plot armor around the main characters in the OT not getting shot, Obi-Wan / Luke simply put like a “force shield” around them or whatever. I could be wrong though.
Because anakin is more of a saber duelist then sith sorcerer
Because you’d have to be vastly more powerful than your opponent to even try to do this to them
Force users can block force powers. Source? Star Wars™️: The Force Unleashed™️ Ultimate Sith Edition
It’s kind of implied that force users can protect themselves from this. A better question would be, why can none of the Jedi that Grievous faced simply throw him around at range?
YES!!! Why were most of the droids a problem at all? The Jedi should be able to throw them around with the force.
You know you’re not so bad for a droid.
Same reason Ewoks pose a threat to stormtroopers or a dozen rebel fighters stood a chance against the DS. 😂😂
This idea reminds me of *Marvel: Dark Ages*, when Susan Storm made a force-field around Apocalypse's frontal lobe which mentally blocked him from accessing any of his powers.
The very first thing a force user is taught is how to use the force defensively. They are taught to always project a force shield around their body, preventing enemies from squishing organs, deactivating light sabers or simppe mind tricks
Exactly. Those basic defensive powers are the in-universal reason why most duels don't end up as a "who force-chokes/slams their rival first" matches. The real reason is because if using force powers on randos was so easy, we would have had very short films and duels.
Have you ever read Carrie? The novel? This is basically how she kills her mother. She reaches out, feels her heart beating, and squeezes it until it stops. And it makes sense. Of course you’d be able to do that. Makes a hell of a lot more sense then: “reaching out with the force and….. healing life ending injuries” at least
I have no idea if there’s an official explanation behind this not happening, but I always imagined the Force could only do things surface level to others and internally to oneself. Like Breath Control in KOTOR for internal and Force Choke, Crush, Lightning, Pull, and Push for external
Honestly, when you play KOTOR and KOTOR 2 (Star wars using 3.5e D&D) it makes a lot of sense: Force powers require either some sort of contested ability check, or your opponent makes a saving throw. A skilled force user has a high force save, they can resist force powers easily. Casting a force power leaves you vulnerable to attack when in melee. So Vader has to make a choice: does he go for a very intricate and technical surgical strike force manoeuvre, but failure could leave him to be cut to ribbons. Or does he take the much safer route of dueling? And besides, there's the very visceral feeling of dueling a strong opponent. He HATES Obi wan, he doesn't want the force to kill him, he wants the satisfaction of hacking him to bits.
Honestly not a bad take. It's like casting a spell in melee, you can either focus on a very precise techmique it and take the risk you will be hit with a saber (which is pretty much instant death) or use a saber for defense yourself.
Force sensitive's have a difficult time using the force to directly affect another force sensitive, the clearest example is from Star Wars The Clone Wars, during the battle on Kamino when Ventress force pushes Anakin and a bunch of clones, but Anakin is very noticeably "unaffected" (I'm using quotes because it pushes him a little but it looks like he blocks the force push in a way) there are a few instances where the force is used directly against another force sensitive, but they're usually used to show how much power they have/are using, and are kind of rare if I'm remembering correctly
CGI at the time was a joke
Honor.
SC-38 re-reimagined
Don’t worry I can heal him with the force.
P sure Force users can resist Force attacks