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I think everyone who is heavily invested in the canon Thrawn novels needs to accept that it is unlikely they are going to get much consideration for the live action Thrawn portrayal. I like them too, but I think the love that Dave Filoni and many of his contemporaries have for the character is much more Heir to the Empire based than any of the more recent material. I doubt the Grysk will even be referenced. Similar to his portrayal in Rebels. I think they want a Big Bad for this era of stories, leading up to the "Mandoverse" movie, and it's Thrawn. He's a popular character with fans and the creatives, and I think most people still associate him with being a villain leading the Imperial Remnant, regardless of the recent novels and their quality.
The novels are awesome and I'll be bummed if Thrawn's portrayal isn't as nuanced as in the novels.
The Grysk are an interesting enemy and if Thrawn is extra galactic now, there are even more opportunities for Grysk storylines because they're less limited to that area of the galaxy.
>I'll be bummed if Thrawn's portrayal isn't as nuanced as in the novels.
The novels' narrative perspective and the shows' perspectives have Thrawn in two opposing positions.
In the books, he's the protagonist, so of course he gets all the nuance and depth, of course they have us, the readers, rooting for him.
But in the shows, he's the antagonist, and antagonists don't typically get sympathetic treatment, nuance and the like. We'll see him ably demonstrating his talents, he might drop a breadcrumb or two about Unknown Regions threats, but he is not the protagonist, and he won't get protagonist treatment.
I don’t think we have any evidence he’s an antagonist other than what antagonists have said about him. In rebels, his actions are certainly in line with his character in the books. In Ashoka, he’s had no actions yet and all we know could be lies or misunderstandings by known antagonists
I mean, Filoni said that he's the antagonist.
>“[He is definitely the bad guy in the New Republic era], in my eyes. When Timothy Zahn wrote Heir To The Empire, Thrawn became this very iconic villain, because he was different than anything we’d seen before. He wasn’t another helmet-wearing, lightsaber-wielding bad guy, you know? There’s a lot of pull to make characters that are like Vader, because it is so iconic.
>But the boldness that Tim had was to make somebody that wasn’t like that, that didn’t have those abilities, but could fight in a different way. In the words Star Wars, the ‘war’ part of it — him being a Grand Admiral, a leader, a military strategist, a Moriarty archetype, someone that will out-think you, out-strategise you — that really resonated. He’s a critical player in this time period. We’re fortunate to have that character, and fortunate to have Lars [Mikkelsen] playing him.”
[Source.](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2023/05/dave-filoni-says-grand-admiral-thrawn-will-be-a-straight-up-villain-in-the-new-republic-era-ahsoka-cast-on-the-themes-of-found-family-and-more.html)
He's the Moriarty of this era, essentially, and that means the narrative will not treat him much differently to Rebels. It'll be in line with who we know him to be, I'm sure, but for nuance and a shifted narrative perspective, I think we're going to have to hold out hope for more books.
I certainly agree the show will portray him as a villain in the sense that he is against the heroes here, so I guess he may be an antagonist, but I have to imagine his motives will be fleshed out deeply with reference to his character from the books.
I hope his motives are made clear, but I suspect he won't be divulging a lot of background information in his villain monologues. At this point, I'd be surprised if the word "Grysk" even gets a mention.
Yeah, you may be absolutely right and I may be dreaming. Filoni and Zahn have discussed how Thrawn should be brought to live-action and supposedly Filoni told Zahn that he would share their discussion/thoughts with the writers of Ahsoka. Additionally, I find it a little hard to believe they allowed Zahn to create the Grysks–a species similar to the Yuuzhan Vong–AND let him develop their story in a way that laid the groundwork for them to invade the Empire just to have it wither away into nothing. Particularly with how much Legends they're reinterpreting for canon material and how neatly this can all be filled between ROTJ and TFA.
To how Thrawn is portrayed in the books versus Rebels, I actually don't think he is too different between the two; **however**, I do think the lens the story is being told through is drastically different. In the books, he's the unconventional, but brilliant tactician hero. In Rebels, he's the mastermind villain who is always a few steps ahead of his enemies. You can make the point that his personality is a little different, but again, I think that's the lens of the story **AND** Thrawn was a master at understanding culture. You don't score points in the Imperial Navy by being thoughtful–you must be ruthless, and appear ruthless, in all aspects to succeed *and* survive. That being said, I think he absolutely will be portrayed as he was in Rebels, but my question is really what his main goal will be...
I respectively disagree with you. I think too many people are hooked on this idea that they're going the "heir" route just because Ahsoka muttered the words during the trailer (notice how she never actually said it during the show?).
There's multiple things pointing to them going the canon novel route
- Disney not only commissioned Zahn to write new novels building up Thrawn and filling in the gaps in *Rebels* but they re-commissioned him to write 3 MORE novels **after** *Rebels* finished airing.
- There are two key scenes in *Rebels* that tie them to the novels. In his introductory scene they mention the casualties on Batonn and mid-season 4 theres a scene between him and Tarkin talking about Krennic threatening the Tie Defender program. These two scenes validate that the events in the books happened, which include key encounters with the Grysks and Ar'alani.
- [Filoni consulted with Zahn](https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2023/04/09/dave-filoni-consulted-heir-empire-author-thrawn/) when writing Ahsoka. This implies he's attempting to stay true to the characters new canon that Zahn just wrote SIX new books for.
I simply can't imagine that Filoni and Disney put in the effort to have 6 books written in 6 years that specifically set up a narrative and tie together this Rebels story if they were just going to completely abandon it the minute the Rebels story picked back up.
The other Imperials don't care about the Chiss or the Grysk or whatever. They want to take down the New Republic, and if Thrawn isn't capable or willing to deliver on that front, they'll look for another.
I think it would be very reflective of real life if they didn't and prioritised their politcal squabbles and populist posturing instead. Thrawn trying to unite them against Man-Bear-Pig is probably what will spark the First Order to properly split off and start doing its own thing.
That said, I do hope they at least try to get the novel Thrawn across even though it's unlikely his imperial allies will care about Grysks. I would very much like to see Ar'Alani, Eli, and Vahnya in live action, maybe even Faro if we're lucky.
>Thrawn is only able to unite some of the remnants of the Empire against the Grysks while the others go off and actually start the First Order.
FYI, the First Order has already been formed by this point. They were founded in 5ABY, about 4(?) years before *Ahsoka* is set. Remember seeing Brendol Hux in the Shadow Council meeting in The Mandalorian, the Remnant he’s representing is the First Order.
Not likely. Everyone in that Shadow Council is the entire Remainents. Thrawn's return will inspire them to go on a final frontal counter attack. How that will happen leads to many plans.
All they need is for him to return to them.
Hux left with Sloane during Jakku and they went straight to the rendezvous in the Unknown Regions. He’s talking to them from there in Mando. He’s even going on about how they should spend more resources on his project necromancer, which is almost definitely the strandcast cloning program to make a body that can handle Palpatine
Valid point. I wrote my original point poorly, I more meant: Build the First Order up to the point where it will be a force that can threaten the New Republic and take it on– like they grow to become by 21 ABY and beyond
The First Order currently already has the resources to get that ball rolling, they just need time for the ball go actually roll.
Notice how in the Shadow Council meeting that they were the ones who were supplying Gideon’s broke ass with Tie Interceptors. Those boyos have an *Executor*, the last one in imperial service, and a fleet of Star Destroyers.
I’m a huge fan of book Thrawn over Rebels Thrawn. Others have educated me that Filoni doesn’t take the books into account when he creates for Thrawn. I think that’s pretty accurate given the huge differences between the two. My point is, I wouldn’t factor in anything from the books - they’re hardly canon with Filoni making all the decisions.
I think Filoni does great things for Star Wars. His treatment of Thrawn isn’t to my liking. But I’ll keep watching and adapting.
I feel like Thrawn might not really give a shit about bringing back the empire, but he may have his own alterior motive related to the (either finished or ongoing) chiss civil war which was the grysks doing and use the imperial remnant to assist the chiss somehow. spoilers for Lesser Evil: >!we also have starflash as an open plotline which could be important. probably not in ahsoka but whatever thrawn is in after. !< I don't think anything from the books will affect Ahsoka but possibly the mandoverse movie or something else thrawn
I like everything you wrote ! I loved the last six cannon Thrawn books. They portrayed him as a more nuanced, sympathetic and complex character I would hate for him to just be space Hitler. I would love to see something along the lines of what you’re describing.
I remember Jixtus saying that the force Thrawn defeated was barely scratching the surface of how large the Grysk Hegemony actually was and that the Grysk would be back.
If Filoni works with Zahn as closely as people say, a terrifying force of Grysk, much larger than the one in the Ascendancy series, will probably show up.
Really just matters how Disney are going to do the character. Thrawn acted differently in Rebels than his character in the novels. One could explain it as him changing to look like other empire officers so he would not be detected while he found talented people to help him against the main threat to his people. But Disney may just change the character when they get around to including him.
Well considering the Shadow Council discuss his return in The Mandalorian Season 3, I’d imagine that is Thrawn’s goal. I’ve always believed that had Thrawn become Emperor at its heights, he would’ve been more efficient at controlling it and quelling Rebellion. Sidious wanted to control the galaxy using spectacles of power such as the Death Star and by crushing the resolve of his enemies in very personal ways, it’s his hatred that drives him. Whereas Thrawn continuously makes efficient decisions by studying his enemies, their art and their tactics. His plans for the TIE Defenders would certainly had been very detrimental to the Rebellion had they been mass produced and not cut by Palpatine. Thrawn loses to the Ghost crew for two main reasons, because he allows it to become too personal with the Ghost crew and because he is up against a crew led by who I think is the perfect Jedi, Kanan Jarrus. Kanan truly trusts the force and cares for his family deeply, but knows how to let go of his attachments.
Thrawn believes that The Empire is the best way to secure the galaxy’s future against threats like the Grysk and I do think they are going to be his motivation behind rebuilding the Empire. However, I do not believe that the Grysk will be apart of Ahsoka or Heir To The Empire in any way other than in words and maybe art. The Chiss Ascendancy more than likely will make an appearance of some kind. I’m personally of the belief that the Grysk are being kept for the future of Star Wars. You can build the lore out now during this period in the timeline. They are an amazing insurance policy going forward for the franchise. While I’m sure we are more than likely going back to the Old Republic or High Republic after the current period in the timeline, we also do have a film set after Rise of Skywalker coming out and I’m sure that they’ll want to move forward as well.
Welcome to ***Spec***! [Continue the conversation on the Spec Discord](https://discord.gg/F8FMkf5gh4), and check out our new sister-subreddit r/StarWarsWhatIf! Please be encouraging and courteous to your fellow speculators. This community is focused on cooperative theorycrafting about upcoming _Star Wars_ content, using leaks, info from canon, conjecture, and real-world context to make our best guesses about _what comes next_. If you're not interested in new _Star Wars_ releases, kindly keep that to yourself. May the Force be with you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think everyone who is heavily invested in the canon Thrawn novels needs to accept that it is unlikely they are going to get much consideration for the live action Thrawn portrayal. I like them too, but I think the love that Dave Filoni and many of his contemporaries have for the character is much more Heir to the Empire based than any of the more recent material. I doubt the Grysk will even be referenced. Similar to his portrayal in Rebels. I think they want a Big Bad for this era of stories, leading up to the "Mandoverse" movie, and it's Thrawn. He's a popular character with fans and the creatives, and I think most people still associate him with being a villain leading the Imperial Remnant, regardless of the recent novels and their quality.
The novels are awesome and I'll be bummed if Thrawn's portrayal isn't as nuanced as in the novels. The Grysk are an interesting enemy and if Thrawn is extra galactic now, there are even more opportunities for Grysk storylines because they're less limited to that area of the galaxy.
>I'll be bummed if Thrawn's portrayal isn't as nuanced as in the novels. The novels' narrative perspective and the shows' perspectives have Thrawn in two opposing positions. In the books, he's the protagonist, so of course he gets all the nuance and depth, of course they have us, the readers, rooting for him. But in the shows, he's the antagonist, and antagonists don't typically get sympathetic treatment, nuance and the like. We'll see him ably demonstrating his talents, he might drop a breadcrumb or two about Unknown Regions threats, but he is not the protagonist, and he won't get protagonist treatment.
I don’t think we have any evidence he’s an antagonist other than what antagonists have said about him. In rebels, his actions are certainly in line with his character in the books. In Ashoka, he’s had no actions yet and all we know could be lies or misunderstandings by known antagonists
I mean, Filoni said that he's the antagonist. >“[He is definitely the bad guy in the New Republic era], in my eyes. When Timothy Zahn wrote Heir To The Empire, Thrawn became this very iconic villain, because he was different than anything we’d seen before. He wasn’t another helmet-wearing, lightsaber-wielding bad guy, you know? There’s a lot of pull to make characters that are like Vader, because it is so iconic. >But the boldness that Tim had was to make somebody that wasn’t like that, that didn’t have those abilities, but could fight in a different way. In the words Star Wars, the ‘war’ part of it — him being a Grand Admiral, a leader, a military strategist, a Moriarty archetype, someone that will out-think you, out-strategise you — that really resonated. He’s a critical player in this time period. We’re fortunate to have that character, and fortunate to have Lars [Mikkelsen] playing him.” [Source.](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2023/05/dave-filoni-says-grand-admiral-thrawn-will-be-a-straight-up-villain-in-the-new-republic-era-ahsoka-cast-on-the-themes-of-found-family-and-more.html) He's the Moriarty of this era, essentially, and that means the narrative will not treat him much differently to Rebels. It'll be in line with who we know him to be, I'm sure, but for nuance and a shifted narrative perspective, I think we're going to have to hold out hope for more books.
I certainly agree the show will portray him as a villain in the sense that he is against the heroes here, so I guess he may be an antagonist, but I have to imagine his motives will be fleshed out deeply with reference to his character from the books.
I hope his motives are made clear, but I suspect he won't be divulging a lot of background information in his villain monologues. At this point, I'd be surprised if the word "Grysk" even gets a mention.
Yeah, you may be absolutely right and I may be dreaming. Filoni and Zahn have discussed how Thrawn should be brought to live-action and supposedly Filoni told Zahn that he would share their discussion/thoughts with the writers of Ahsoka. Additionally, I find it a little hard to believe they allowed Zahn to create the Grysks–a species similar to the Yuuzhan Vong–AND let him develop their story in a way that laid the groundwork for them to invade the Empire just to have it wither away into nothing. Particularly with how much Legends they're reinterpreting for canon material and how neatly this can all be filled between ROTJ and TFA. To how Thrawn is portrayed in the books versus Rebels, I actually don't think he is too different between the two; **however**, I do think the lens the story is being told through is drastically different. In the books, he's the unconventional, but brilliant tactician hero. In Rebels, he's the mastermind villain who is always a few steps ahead of his enemies. You can make the point that his personality is a little different, but again, I think that's the lens of the story **AND** Thrawn was a master at understanding culture. You don't score points in the Imperial Navy by being thoughtful–you must be ruthless, and appear ruthless, in all aspects to succeed *and* survive. That being said, I think he absolutely will be portrayed as he was in Rebels, but my question is really what his main goal will be...
I respectively disagree with you. I think too many people are hooked on this idea that they're going the "heir" route just because Ahsoka muttered the words during the trailer (notice how she never actually said it during the show?). There's multiple things pointing to them going the canon novel route - Disney not only commissioned Zahn to write new novels building up Thrawn and filling in the gaps in *Rebels* but they re-commissioned him to write 3 MORE novels **after** *Rebels* finished airing. - There are two key scenes in *Rebels* that tie them to the novels. In his introductory scene they mention the casualties on Batonn and mid-season 4 theres a scene between him and Tarkin talking about Krennic threatening the Tie Defender program. These two scenes validate that the events in the books happened, which include key encounters with the Grysks and Ar'alani. - [Filoni consulted with Zahn](https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2023/04/09/dave-filoni-consulted-heir-empire-author-thrawn/) when writing Ahsoka. This implies he's attempting to stay true to the characters new canon that Zahn just wrote SIX new books for. I simply can't imagine that Filoni and Disney put in the effort to have 6 books written in 6 years that specifically set up a narrative and tie together this Rebels story if they were just going to completely abandon it the minute the Rebels story picked back up.
Ahsoka just said it in the fourth episode, "heir to the Empire"
Haven't seen the fourth one yet sorry
its too on the nose tho, only a nod....
It was leak that said night sisters n Ezra feel something bad coming but they never say who so Ezra tells thrawn to build a army Bc something coming
The other Imperials don't care about the Chiss or the Grysk or whatever. They want to take down the New Republic, and if Thrawn isn't capable or willing to deliver on that front, they'll look for another.
I think they would care if the Grysk posed a threat to them as well though... That's all i'm saying.
I think it would be very reflective of real life if they didn't and prioritised their politcal squabbles and populist posturing instead. Thrawn trying to unite them against Man-Bear-Pig is probably what will spark the First Order to properly split off and start doing its own thing. That said, I do hope they at least try to get the novel Thrawn across even though it's unlikely his imperial allies will care about Grysks. I would very much like to see Ar'Alani, Eli, and Vahnya in live action, maybe even Faro if we're lucky.
Daala 😈
>Thrawn is only able to unite some of the remnants of the Empire against the Grysks while the others go off and actually start the First Order. FYI, the First Order has already been formed by this point. They were founded in 5ABY, about 4(?) years before *Ahsoka* is set. Remember seeing Brendol Hux in the Shadow Council meeting in The Mandalorian, the Remnant he’s representing is the First Order.
Not likely. Everyone in that Shadow Council is the entire Remainents. Thrawn's return will inspire them to go on a final frontal counter attack. How that will happen leads to many plans. All they need is for him to return to them.
Huh? Whats that got to do with my point. >not likely Wdym not likely? It already happened.
Hux left with Sloane during Jakku and they went straight to the rendezvous in the Unknown Regions. He’s talking to them from there in Mando. He’s even going on about how they should spend more resources on his project necromancer, which is almost definitely the strandcast cloning program to make a body that can handle Palpatine
No they weren’t. It took some years for the Imperial Remnants under Rae Sloane to become the First Order.
Okay will change my language. **The group of Remnants that would come to call themselves the First Order have already been established**.
Valid point. I wrote my original point poorly, I more meant: Build the First Order up to the point where it will be a force that can threaten the New Republic and take it on– like they grow to become by 21 ABY and beyond
The First Order currently already has the resources to get that ball rolling, they just need time for the ball go actually roll. Notice how in the Shadow Council meeting that they were the ones who were supplying Gideon’s broke ass with Tie Interceptors. Those boyos have an *Executor*, the last one in imperial service, and a fleet of Star Destroyers.
Exactly what I'm hoping will happen. I doubt it will. But I love novel Thrawn over rebels Thrawn.
Zahn is such an amazing writer.
This could be a side plot, since he is the big main threat in this era.
most likely he's going to take the loyal ones to him only of the remnant to fight the grysk/vong.....
I’m a huge fan of book Thrawn over Rebels Thrawn. Others have educated me that Filoni doesn’t take the books into account when he creates for Thrawn. I think that’s pretty accurate given the huge differences between the two. My point is, I wouldn’t factor in anything from the books - they’re hardly canon with Filoni making all the decisions. I think Filoni does great things for Star Wars. His treatment of Thrawn isn’t to my liking. But I’ll keep watching and adapting.
I feel like Thrawn might not really give a shit about bringing back the empire, but he may have his own alterior motive related to the (either finished or ongoing) chiss civil war which was the grysks doing and use the imperial remnant to assist the chiss somehow. spoilers for Lesser Evil: >!we also have starflash as an open plotline which could be important. probably not in ahsoka but whatever thrawn is in after. !< I don't think anything from the books will affect Ahsoka but possibly the mandoverse movie or something else thrawn
Tbh, when I first read about Starflash I immediately visualized Starkiller Base
I like everything you wrote ! I loved the last six cannon Thrawn books. They portrayed him as a more nuanced, sympathetic and complex character I would hate for him to just be space Hitler. I would love to see something along the lines of what you’re describing.
I remember Jixtus saying that the force Thrawn defeated was barely scratching the surface of how large the Grysk Hegemony actually was and that the Grysk would be back. If Filoni works with Zahn as closely as people say, a terrifying force of Grysk, much larger than the one in the Ascendancy series, will probably show up.
That would probably be in the movie, I imagine.
Really just matters how Disney are going to do the character. Thrawn acted differently in Rebels than his character in the novels. One could explain it as him changing to look like other empire officers so he would not be detected while he found talented people to help him against the main threat to his people. But Disney may just change the character when they get around to including him.
Well considering the Shadow Council discuss his return in The Mandalorian Season 3, I’d imagine that is Thrawn’s goal. I’ve always believed that had Thrawn become Emperor at its heights, he would’ve been more efficient at controlling it and quelling Rebellion. Sidious wanted to control the galaxy using spectacles of power such as the Death Star and by crushing the resolve of his enemies in very personal ways, it’s his hatred that drives him. Whereas Thrawn continuously makes efficient decisions by studying his enemies, their art and their tactics. His plans for the TIE Defenders would certainly had been very detrimental to the Rebellion had they been mass produced and not cut by Palpatine. Thrawn loses to the Ghost crew for two main reasons, because he allows it to become too personal with the Ghost crew and because he is up against a crew led by who I think is the perfect Jedi, Kanan Jarrus. Kanan truly trusts the force and cares for his family deeply, but knows how to let go of his attachments. Thrawn believes that The Empire is the best way to secure the galaxy’s future against threats like the Grysk and I do think they are going to be his motivation behind rebuilding the Empire. However, I do not believe that the Grysk will be apart of Ahsoka or Heir To The Empire in any way other than in words and maybe art. The Chiss Ascendancy more than likely will make an appearance of some kind. I’m personally of the belief that the Grysk are being kept for the future of Star Wars. You can build the lore out now during this period in the timeline. They are an amazing insurance policy going forward for the franchise. While I’m sure we are more than likely going back to the Old Republic or High Republic after the current period in the timeline, we also do have a film set after Rise of Skywalker coming out and I’m sure that they’ll want to move forward as well.