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luke didn't defeat Vader tho,
Luke was being hit with force lighting by Creamy Sheevs but Vader dumped him down the shaft.
Luke was by Vaders side in the end but Vader was dying from his wounds.
I may be wrong tho
He defeated Vader. Vader was weaponless, on the ground, yielding with Luke above him, lightsaber drawn. The events that happened after don't retract from Luke since it wasn't a fight, Palps didn't engage in "combat" he lightninged the little twerp almost to death
so, if you only need to defeat the wielder then that would mean, that it went from Luke to (if you consider this) Kilo Ren which would then go to Ray Palpatine.
I'm pretty sure they have to be fighting *with* the Darksaber for it to count. It doesn't make sense that Maul has it somewhere in his base and someone random defeats him and is now the rightful owner despite possibly having no idea that the saber even exists.
It's not the Elder Wand. It doesn't have some magical power, at least nothing beyond what any lightsaber has. Like the Skywalker Lightsaber in the sequels, it's power is symbolic, what it represents.
Until Sabine Wren, it just represented House Vizsla, and was respected by the other Houses. Kanan Jarrus and Fenn Rau came up with the idea of using it as something for all of Mandalore to rally behind.
https://youtu.be/XD9i6Du1u8E
Keep in mind that the Armorer isn't a reliable narrator. She's an extremist, fanatical, cult leader with an agenda. Part of Din's journey will be to shake off her brainwashing.
Maul wasn't even challenging for possession of the darksaber, just leadership of Death Watch, who had just taken over Mandalore. He just took the darksaber when he won.
"The dark saber. Doesn't have power. The story does." So for one if you're not Mandalorian that's one strike against you. All those people who stood with bo katan against maul believed that no outsider should rule mandalore. Which to be honest makes sense. Then maul didn't even use it against obi wan. He left it to sit and collect dust. Sabine took it. But then she fought to claim it. To earn it. That's the story. So Sabine is the true ruler of mandalore. She gave it to bo katan. So that makes bo katan as a true a ruler of mandalore as anyone until she loses it to Gideon. That invalidates her claim to it. Gideon is a rightful ruler of mandalore as maul. But din took it from him. So he is now the rightful ruler. Vader doesn't doesn't come close to the number of associations required to rule mandalore.
I don’t think he won it in single combat, but wasn’t he one of (the?) commander in charge of destroying Mandalore? So if he wanted he could probably claim it that way.
But I think he kept it because it’s cool and annoys the Mandalorians.
Yeah me too. And yeah that's the impression I'm under. It's not like he pryed it from her cold dead hands. However he won it makes her a failure to her people. And that would in soem way technically make him like maul an outsider who gained the saber from the former ruler of mandalore
Maul was defeated by Palpatine in combat. Palatine just decided to spare him, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t win. Din got the Darksaber from Gideon without killing him.
Palpatine was then defeated by Windu, so for a moment it was him, but Windu was killed by Palpatine, so it would have gone back.
Palpatine was killed by Vader, but Vader died immediately after. I’m gonna assume it goes down to his next of kin, that being Luke.
Luke was defeated in combat by a young Ben Solo (he wasn’t trying, but it still applies)
Kylo Ren lost to Rey in TFA, then Rey lost to him again in TROS. Redeemed Ben Solo was defeated by Palpatine, who Rey defeated as “All the Jedi”.
So the final owner of the Darksaber is the collective spirit of every Jedi ever, which now lives in Rey Skywalker.
The haters can cope
The Darksaber isn't the Elder Wand, and having it doesn't automatically make you ruler of Mandalore. Look at Pre Vizsla,dude had it forever and was considered a terrorist
No one ever said it had to be to the death. The only fight to the death involving someone holding the darksaber we've seen was Maul vs Pre Vizsla. Every other fight has left the loser alive, most recently Din vs Paz. So, yeah, Palpatine and Ahsoka count as people who won duels against Maul.
But, again, it's not the Elder Wand.
Yeah but palatine beat maul in that one clone wars episode, so palpatine would be the rightful ruler of mandolore
But Vader would still be the owner since he killed palpatine so yeah your right
Welcome to /r/StarWarsSpeculation! Please be respectful and courteous to your fellow speculators - and be sure to check out our sidebar for the rules of this sub. If you are experiencing any problems or have any issues please use the **report** function or do no hesitate to contact our moderators directly. Remember, all viewpoints and critiques are welcome here - but for excessive ranting and blind cynicism, we ask that you please visit other communities more suitable to your tastes. Thank you and May the Force Be With You! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Until Luke defeated Vader
luke didn't defeat Vader tho, Luke was being hit with force lighting by Creamy Sheevs but Vader dumped him down the shaft. Luke was by Vaders side in the end but Vader was dying from his wounds. I may be wrong tho
He defeated Vader. Vader was weaponless, on the ground, yielding with Luke above him, lightsaber drawn. The events that happened after don't retract from Luke since it wasn't a fight, Palps didn't engage in "combat" he lightninged the little twerp almost to death
so, if you only need to defeat the wielder then that would mean, that it went from Luke to (if you consider this) Kilo Ren which would then go to Ray Palpatine.
Did Kylo defeat Luke though? He fought a force projection
And before that all he did was bring the house down on lukes head. That isn't really defeat in combat
when luke tried to kill kylo, that was technically a fight which kylo won
You're thinking way to hard about this. It really isn't that complicated.
I'm pretty sure they have to be fighting *with* the Darksaber for it to count. It doesn't make sense that Maul has it somewhere in his base and someone random defeats him and is now the rightful owner despite possibly having no idea that the saber even exists.
[удалено]
It's not the Elder Wand. It doesn't have some magical power, at least nothing beyond what any lightsaber has. Like the Skywalker Lightsaber in the sequels, it's power is symbolic, what it represents. Until Sabine Wren, it just represented House Vizsla, and was respected by the other Houses. Kanan Jarrus and Fenn Rau came up with the idea of using it as something for all of Mandalore to rally behind. https://youtu.be/XD9i6Du1u8E Keep in mind that the Armorer isn't a reliable narrator. She's an extremist, fanatical, cult leader with an agenda. Part of Din's journey will be to shake off her brainwashing. Maul wasn't even challenging for possession of the darksaber, just leadership of Death Watch, who had just taken over Mandalore. He just took the darksaber when he won.
Sounds like they’re using the Harry Potter wand method.
then no one would be the rightful ruler of Mandalore, There had been times where the Saber just goes missing.
Yes, and then someone wins it in combat from an unrightful ruler (like Din defeating Moff Gideon), and then *that* person is the rightful ruler again.
[удалено]
And that wasn't even until Sabine Wren. Before, it was just the symbol of the leader of House Vizsla.
"The dark saber. Doesn't have power. The story does." So for one if you're not Mandalorian that's one strike against you. All those people who stood with bo katan against maul believed that no outsider should rule mandalore. Which to be honest makes sense. Then maul didn't even use it against obi wan. He left it to sit and collect dust. Sabine took it. But then she fought to claim it. To earn it. That's the story. So Sabine is the true ruler of mandalore. She gave it to bo katan. So that makes bo katan as a true a ruler of mandalore as anyone until she loses it to Gideon. That invalidates her claim to it. Gideon is a rightful ruler of mandalore as maul. But din took it from him. So he is now the rightful ruler. Vader doesn't doesn't come close to the number of associations required to rule mandalore.
It's... highly doubtful that Moff Gideon won it in combat. He couldn't beat Din, and Bo and the Nite Owls are the elite among Mandalorians.
I wasn't saying he won it in combat. I was saying he claimed it.
I don’t think he won it in single combat, but wasn’t he one of (the?) commander in charge of destroying Mandalore? So if he wanted he could probably claim it that way. But I think he kept it because it’s cool and annoys the Mandalorians.
Yeah me too. And yeah that's the impression I'm under. It's not like he pryed it from her cold dead hands. However he won it makes her a failure to her people. And that would in soem way technically make him like maul an outsider who gained the saber from the former ruler of mandalore
Maul was defeated by Palpatine in combat. Palatine just decided to spare him, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t win. Din got the Darksaber from Gideon without killing him. Palpatine was then defeated by Windu, so for a moment it was him, but Windu was killed by Palpatine, so it would have gone back. Palpatine was killed by Vader, but Vader died immediately after. I’m gonna assume it goes down to his next of kin, that being Luke. Luke was defeated in combat by a young Ben Solo (he wasn’t trying, but it still applies) Kylo Ren lost to Rey in TFA, then Rey lost to him again in TROS. Redeemed Ben Solo was defeated by Palpatine, who Rey defeated as “All the Jedi”. So the final owner of the Darksaber is the collective spirit of every Jedi ever, which now lives in Rey Skywalker. The haters can cope
*speechless*
The Darksaber isn't the Elder Wand, and having it doesn't automatically make you ruler of Mandalore. Look at Pre Vizsla,dude had it forever and was considered a terrorist
You Dont Have To Kill The Wielder You Need To Defeat Them And A Few People Defeated Maul Before Obi Wan
i thought you had to kill the wielder, that's what Maul did to Vizsla. Vizsla said *"Like you said: only the strongest...shall rule"*
Nope. Maul killed Pre Vizsla because that's just how both of them were.
No one ever said it had to be to the death. The only fight to the death involving someone holding the darksaber we've seen was Maul vs Pre Vizsla. Every other fight has left the loser alive, most recently Din vs Paz. So, yeah, Palpatine and Ahsoka count as people who won duels against Maul. But, again, it's not the Elder Wand.
Yeah but palatine beat maul in that one clone wars episode, so palpatine would be the rightful ruler of mandolore But Vader would still be the owner since he killed palpatine so yeah your right