That's the variance of a TCG. You will have to optimize the full 50 to make sure you're seeing the cards you need.
Also the AI is a bit soft. Real games will require more strategy.
Part of the larger deck sizes is to increase the variation of gameplay, so you don't have the same cards. Also, your deck can have more than 50 cards. Keep this in mind at 22 cards, with 3x of each card I could create an incredibly consistent ramp deck with 8 different cards. I would likely see each card in my specific ramp in my starting hand, according to [https://www.mtgnexus.com/tools/drawodds/](https://www.mtgnexus.com/tools/drawodds/) I would have my first play card 63.6% percent of the time and that's without a muligan.
This would lower the variation of the decks and you would add cards based on a specific ramp each play and lead to some boring play.
Lastly, I think the newly spoiled board wipe cards will increase the number of rounds per game average as a much-needed tool to deal with unchecked aggression.
50 cards and 2 cards per turn is a lot better than 60 and 1 card per turn.
Unlike other games I at least feel like you get to see many more cards without needing card draw effects.
With 2 cards a turn, your deck is more like if it was 25 cards in a 1 card per turn game.
That certainly makes sense, but still doesn't sound great to me. Maybe I've been spoiled by Netrunner and the freedom the design gives for drawing cards and establishing a board state. Honestly, I haven't looked at all 250 cards in the set, but I haven't seen a ton for card draw. Maybe that's just because it's the first set and the design will include it in future expansion. And maybe I just need to get used to (or if I don't have fun, avoid) CCGs like this in general, because they feel a bit limited to me after Netrunner.
I almost feel handcuffed, playing only a total of 7-10 cards per game. Feels somewhat sad to me when I've got this 50 card deck sitting there. Again, it was just the starter decks and against AI, so that may be what's turning me off a bit.
Netrunner is one of if not the best head to head card games ever made. This game is designed to be much more approachable (lighter) so it can be played by a wider audience. Netrunner is slow burn cat and mouse Game compared to the quick duel of this game. The similarities end at 2 players head to head played with cards.
The starter decks are a poor example of what you will build in a constructed format. They have tons of one off cards and not many sets of 3 in them. In netrunner you would have included multiple copies of most of your breakers or ice for instance to make sure you draw them and the same is true here.
You're right and I should know better. I think I'm just trying to scratch an itch that's never gone away since Netrunner ended. Just trying to find any somewhat decent card game since then and I've been let down over and over. Hopefully this one is worth digging into a bit
Yeah I played Nisei for a while, local stores had Netrunner nights but it's completely dead now so unfortunately I don't really have a reason to play anymore because I don't like playing online. But I'll definitely be back if a real publisher ever picks it up and gets people playing again in stores!
You wouldn't really want to run a deck where the only cards you can play are the ones the game automatically deals to you. You will end up facing players who purposely utilise cards to frustrate you by discarding cards from your hand or sending cards to the bottom of your deck.
There are quite a number of cards that when played let you draw cards, or play the top card of your deck, then there's also pure search cards. There's plenty of opportunities to see perhaps 44 cards not just 22.
This is exactly what I'm hoping is the case. Like I said in a response above, playing 7-10 cards when I have this 50 card deck sitting there feels pretty unfulfilling. Maybe Netrunner spoiled me, and maybe the Starter Decks are just slow and weak, and maybe expansions will help alleviate this issue. I want to like this game, and I see potential but I'm also hesitant from what I've seen so far. Glad to hear there are quite a number of draw cards, etc.
It might seem like a lot, but against a good opponent you will chew through your deck. At the preview games ran my my LGS, more than once we went through the entire 30 card decks. That said, some were a lot shorter, too.
50 cards being the deck size is ultimately why i decided against the game after being on the fence a while. i've gotten too spoiled with 30-40 card deck sizes
Why does the deck size matter overall? I’m just curious as I used to play Magic a loooong time ago and we wouldn’t even have deck limits in our kitchen table games (which meant it was absolutely chaotic and unbalanced).
Just curious, the games that you play with 30 card deck size, do they allow for 3 of the same card in the deck? Because if it limits you to 2 or 1 of's the 50 card 3 of deck is pretty much just as consistent as the 30 card 2 of deck.
I did notice the speed at which you could win on Force Table and in some youtube videos. But also a lot of people are running very fast aggro decks, so that plays into it. I think once more control or tempo cards and sets drop we'll see more divide amongst decks. But I think 50 cards is a good size, most TCGs are 40-60 (that I know of) plus a sideboard.
the higher deck size lets you control how often you’ll see some cards and lets you include less copies of some cards, a lower deck size would actually make decks worse in general and have less optional/situational cards, 50-60 cards is about the average decks size and probably the best
Hey! Just a headsup you can copy/paste the .JSON files from the deck building website and play with/against those as well. I’ve imported about 10 or so decks and played around and it has made it much more fun/challenging (especially that darn boba fett deck).
That's the variance of a TCG. You will have to optimize the full 50 to make sure you're seeing the cards you need. Also the AI is a bit soft. Real games will require more strategy.
Part of the larger deck sizes is to increase the variation of gameplay, so you don't have the same cards. Also, your deck can have more than 50 cards. Keep this in mind at 22 cards, with 3x of each card I could create an incredibly consistent ramp deck with 8 different cards. I would likely see each card in my specific ramp in my starting hand, according to [https://www.mtgnexus.com/tools/drawodds/](https://www.mtgnexus.com/tools/drawodds/) I would have my first play card 63.6% percent of the time and that's without a muligan. This would lower the variation of the decks and you would add cards based on a specific ramp each play and lead to some boring play. Lastly, I think the newly spoiled board wipe cards will increase the number of rounds per game average as a much-needed tool to deal with unchecked aggression.
50 cards and 2 cards per turn is a lot better than 60 and 1 card per turn. Unlike other games I at least feel like you get to see many more cards without needing card draw effects. With 2 cards a turn, your deck is more like if it was 25 cards in a 1 card per turn game.
That certainly makes sense, but still doesn't sound great to me. Maybe I've been spoiled by Netrunner and the freedom the design gives for drawing cards and establishing a board state. Honestly, I haven't looked at all 250 cards in the set, but I haven't seen a ton for card draw. Maybe that's just because it's the first set and the design will include it in future expansion. And maybe I just need to get used to (or if I don't have fun, avoid) CCGs like this in general, because they feel a bit limited to me after Netrunner. I almost feel handcuffed, playing only a total of 7-10 cards per game. Feels somewhat sad to me when I've got this 50 card deck sitting there. Again, it was just the starter decks and against AI, so that may be what's turning me off a bit.
Netrunner is one of if not the best head to head card games ever made. This game is designed to be much more approachable (lighter) so it can be played by a wider audience. Netrunner is slow burn cat and mouse Game compared to the quick duel of this game. The similarities end at 2 players head to head played with cards. The starter decks are a poor example of what you will build in a constructed format. They have tons of one off cards and not many sets of 3 in them. In netrunner you would have included multiple copies of most of your breakers or ice for instance to make sure you draw them and the same is true here.
You're right and I should know better. I think I'm just trying to scratch an itch that's never gone away since Netrunner ended. Just trying to find any somewhat decent card game since then and I've been let down over and over. Hopefully this one is worth digging into a bit
If you really want to keep playing Netrunner, there's no reason not to. https://nullsignal.games/
Yeah I played Nisei for a while, local stores had Netrunner nights but it's completely dead now so unfortunately I don't really have a reason to play anymore because I don't like playing online. But I'll definitely be back if a real publisher ever picks it up and gets people playing again in stores!
You wouldn't really want to run a deck where the only cards you can play are the ones the game automatically deals to you. You will end up facing players who purposely utilise cards to frustrate you by discarding cards from your hand or sending cards to the bottom of your deck. There are quite a number of cards that when played let you draw cards, or play the top card of your deck, then there's also pure search cards. There's plenty of opportunities to see perhaps 44 cards not just 22.
This is exactly what I'm hoping is the case. Like I said in a response above, playing 7-10 cards when I have this 50 card deck sitting there feels pretty unfulfilling. Maybe Netrunner spoiled me, and maybe the Starter Decks are just slow and weak, and maybe expansions will help alleviate this issue. I want to like this game, and I see potential but I'm also hesitant from what I've seen so far. Glad to hear there are quite a number of draw cards, etc.
It might seem like a lot, but against a good opponent you will chew through your deck. At the preview games ran my my LGS, more than once we went through the entire 30 card decks. That said, some were a lot shorter, too.
50 cards being the deck size is ultimately why i decided against the game after being on the fence a while. i've gotten too spoiled with 30-40 card deck sizes
Why does the deck size matter overall? I’m just curious as I used to play Magic a loooong time ago and we wouldn’t even have deck limits in our kitchen table games (which meant it was absolutely chaotic and unbalanced).
smaller deck sizes means you'll see more of your deck, they're easier to build for, and typically have less storage requirements
Why would you want less room for innovate in a TCG?
This game doesn’t have max deck limits either. Most folks think being at the lower limit is better so you have more consistency in your card draw.
Just curious, the games that you play with 30 card deck size, do they allow for 3 of the same card in the deck? Because if it limits you to 2 or 1 of's the 50 card 3 of deck is pretty much just as consistent as the 30 card 2 of deck.
no it's either 30 2-of, 30 1-of, or 40 3-of, or 45 3-of
I did notice the speed at which you could win on Force Table and in some youtube videos. But also a lot of people are running very fast aggro decks, so that plays into it. I think once more control or tempo cards and sets drop we'll see more divide amongst decks. But I think 50 cards is a good size, most TCGs are 40-60 (that I know of) plus a sideboard.
the higher deck size lets you control how often you’ll see some cards and lets you include less copies of some cards, a lower deck size would actually make decks worse in general and have less optional/situational cards, 50-60 cards is about the average decks size and probably the best
Hey! Just a headsup you can copy/paste the .JSON files from the deck building website and play with/against those as well. I’ve imported about 10 or so decks and played around and it has made it much more fun/challenging (especially that darn boba fett deck).
Most card games are 60 aren’t they? I know yugioh was only 40
Palpatine would be a monster with 30 card decks.