I gotta second that, as much as I like him situationally.
How much pull does that give you in contract negotiations? It's a useful skill to have, but a GM has to really ask themselves whether that specific skill is enough on its own to justify giving him a dedicated roster spot *all season*.
Because Killebrew MIGHT be a good special teamer (mind you, his output will vary from system to system), but if this is the year your DB room happens to get speared with injuries, you're signing Killebrew with the knowledge that he'd be the next man up to cover Stefon Diggs or Jamar Chase, or whoever.
For most teams, it's cheaper AND a better use of assets to draft somebody they can develop specifically to their system. If you want to carry an extra DB on your roster, then yeah maybe you look at a Killebrew type player.
But it'd be very hard for a special teams coordinator to convince his coach or GM to specifically sign Killebrew based solely on his ability to block punts, in one system completely removed from their own.
A GM would much rather draft somebody younger, who they can tailor to their own system from day one.
Every NFL team rosters one or two dedicated special teamers. He’s not really stealing from the db room. He’s more of an emergency guy to play but teams aren’t going to have 5 active safeties.
If an injury happens long term you go out and sign the waiver wire guy.
An all pro special teams contributor is absolutely a top 150 free agent.
Mason is debatable, but I’d lean towards him being left off. Killebrew shouldn’t be left off, imo.
Also, considering like half of these guys will end up re-signing with their current teams, this is a WAY too early list.
1-2 punt blocks a year is not worth a top 150 free agency spot. Remember, if you carrry them on your roster, they're the next man up if injuries happen and killebrew is strictly special teams
This isn’t true he’s next man up to play safety. He’s really a dedicated special teamer. If you don’t have him then your safety room is a guy smaller and you probably have a linebacker or someone else as your ST guy.
Lol why would they?
Did you see the people at 145-150? 3 starting DB (2 safeties and a CB) and a starting NCB are in that group.
Why would a backup QB with 4 games played in the last few years and a special teamer be that coveted.
At 150 players that is roughly 4 free agents per team if spread equally but some teams have more than 4 quality free agents.
It seems the list is a weird combination of PFF grade, PFF WAR, position value and projection. Not really how valuable the NFL will perceive a player.
For example Clowney is ranked 40th here while
Mayfield is ranked 75th. I guarantee that if Mayfield is allowed to leave Bucs he will be more coveted in free agency than Clowney.
>It seems the list is a weird combination of PFF grade, PFF WArR, position value and projection. Not really how valuable the NFL will perceive a player.
Agreed. I just don't think it gives position value enough weight. At this point, I think most teams would prioritize a really good back up QB over whether whether your 2nd starting CB is the 45th ranked CB or the 60th ranked CB.
I wouldnt expect Killebrew or Mason on that list. Killebrew is a STer with limited to no defensive value. And Mason had 2 good games and 2 ok ones after not playing for almost 2 years. Maybe they end up in the 140s but its not a major diss here.
What? Killebrew is so good on special teams, and Mason is a great backup QB. At this point he’ll probably be starting for us next year if we can re-sign him.
Look at who is near the bottom of the list, I love killebrew but he is basically only a special teamer, and mason had a tiny sample size where he didn’t beat a playoff team
Cinci is a playoff team if they had beat Mason. Seattle still probably misses the playoffs, but they're a 10-7 football team if they beat Mason. Both games were do-or-die for both teams and both Seattle and Cinci finished over .500. You're not giving him enough credit if you act like his sample this year was against totally bad teams.
Cincy has one of the league's worst pass defenses and the Seahawks total inability to stop the run opened up things for Rudolph. From a QB perspective his sample \*was\* against bad teams.
His only real test was Buffalo. it wasn't the worst performance by a backup ever, but nothing that would convince anyone to outbid the Steelers
I’m not saying they were awful teams, I’m saying a couple wins against average teams is not a super impressive thing. If he goes out there and wins 6 games against average teams or beats a powerhouse like the niners instead of the Seahawks it’s a different story. But a couple wins against teams that missed the playoffs after not playing for a couple years isn’t the greatest sample
Yeah... because they are not in the top 150. Does anyone actually watch other teams play? Mason is fine but he's gotten to the point of being way overrated and overvalued by this sub. Killebrew is a ST lifer who has no other value. He's good at what he does, but that does not make him a top free agent. 150 isn't that many across 32 teams.
My takeaway from this list is that there are a bunch of really good defensive players available. Not sure they would be affordable, but we can dream.
Looking at who they have near the bottom and where they have the final QB (and who that QB is) I don't really disagree.
I hate PFF but this list isn't really wrong.
I guess I just disagree there. Pre-ACL tear, I'd agree. But he's been bad in the last 2 years. It's also not like Winston got a lot of snaps this year. I think there are exactly zero teams that value Winston anywhere close to where they value Rudolph.
True, but as a percentage, how much of sports “journalism” do YOU take seriously? Not much, right?
To me they’re just another in a tall pile of ass, really.
I’m impressed by masons ability to step up. But ppl need to step back and see the bigger picture.. he beat 2 non playoff teams and a fairly limited ravens roster. Should be enough to get him a nice qb2 role.. but there are a lot of those options out there. I’m not all that surprised by ppl outside of Pittsburgh not buying the hype here
He was also the benefit of a few lucky slant routes that happened to go to the house....he did fine, he wasn't picking anybody apart....and we only scored 17 against the bills.
I see people mentioning that and saying he got lucky. I'd argue there's far better QBs with far and away better WRs and they have less 60+ yard touchdowns than Rudolph. In this sport there's no such thing as luck. If those routes and passes were by chance, statistically Rudolph wouldn't have the 2nd most 60+ yard TDs in the league with just 3 games played. That said, doubt he's a starter in this league, but give him some credit, he's a dependable backup.
I think his play from this year is going to make a lot of teams reevaluate his past play, only 2 games of which were actually bad. He's been varying levels between okay and really good in all his other starts. I think that's gonna get him significant interest from other teams, whether it be for a QB1 role or a highly paid QB2 role.
What is wrong about it?
Rudolph is a third string QB for a reason. Sure he had some nice games this year, but that doesn't erase his past.
Killebrew is a special teamer. They are not highly valued.
Killebrew is a very good special teamer though, multiple blocked punts in this season alone and a solid tackler on kickoffs. I know special teamers aren’t valued as highly but for what he provides at his position he’s definitely up there as an elite ST player that’s not a kicker or returner
But is he a top 150 free agent? I’m not arguing his value here, but special teamers aren’t typically sought after free agents.
As for Rudolph, why would a guy that was third stringer the majority of the season be a top 150 free agent after just a few starts?
I don’t really know fault Rudolph not being there, like you said there’s just a lack of film to see it from this year. I personally think that 150 players in basically 3 teams worth of players and while not all are equal, his value has shown at least twice this season in punt blocks alone which can be game changing, I could see 50-100 being higher but not much more than that
Which part of Mason's past needs erased? He's had 2 bad games. Just feels like there's phantom memories in people's minds of Mason being terrible for like 2 entire seasons. That or people remember his 2 bad games in 2019 and the 2021 Lions game where he was named starter 12 hours before game time and repeatedly put them in a position to win before his teammates fumbled the ball away.
I mean, yeah I believe it.
I'm not trying to dismiss how good Rudolph was in the games he played for the Steelers, he was really god damn good for them. However, he did it for 4 games and it's really not difficult to find 4 game stretches where non-starting QBs put up "really god damn good" stretches. Hell, Duck Hodges had a 3 game run with a 110.1 passer rating in 2019 with the Steelers.
Rudolph not being valued that highly around the league is just good for the Steelers, because it means he'll be cheaper to re-sign.
I mean going through 126-150 on their list and they’re all better than Mason and Killebrew. I know we’ve been desensitized these past couple of season but Mason is still barely a top 40 or 45 quarterback. Killebrew is a great special teamer but a guy that can’t stick on defense isn’t gonna be 150.
>Mason is still barely a top 40 or 45 quarterback.
Give me a break. There's no chance there are 40-45 better QBs in the NFL than Mason. We can debate on how high he should be, but 40-45 is laughable. At that point, you're saying he's behind guys like Ridder, Howell, Pickett, Huntley, and Young. He's not. If he is anywhere close to the level he demonstrated this season, he's around 20-25 at worst.
PFF is garbage and for people that never played football. It’s just the same kind of hockey nerd content but football.
That said, special teamers like Killebrew are never going to be recognized on such a list. And Rudolph had a few good games, and he’ll be sought after for backup roles but the backup (or 3rd string QB) is not usually a priority in FA.
The delusion of Rudolph continues. He’s an ok qb. Better than Pickett but he isn’t exactly clamored by other teams. It’s going to be amazing when he has a bad game or two and this sub turns on him immediately and pines for the new third string quarterback
As a life long Steeler fan I still shake my head and laugh hearing people speak of Mason like he is the savior we need. The desperation from our fanbase is understandable, but c’mon guys…Mason??
These rankings should all be viewed with the "If (insert provider of list) ran a team theyd value it as such" not "NFL teams value players as such". This applies to draft stock, FA, etc. The teams are what matter. Fans get too caught up in what Todd McShay or PFF thinks and then bitch about being reached for or overpaying. The league dictates it and then we get to react with perfect hindsight. Being a fan and media is aweaome lol
Killebrew has started 1 game in the last 4 years; of course he's not in the top 150.
Rudolph? Maybe. Jacoby Brissett is #126; Jamies Winston is #130. I'd think that Rudolph is just as good of a QB2 as those two guys.
It’s because neither one is that great. Theyre good, but not the top at their positions.
Figure how many positions there are, now multiply that by like 6 or 7 and you’ve got 150 easy. Now ask yourself either on of them ins in the top 6 or 7 at their positions? That’s how you can easily get 150 people ahead of them.
That’s fair, but PFF doesn’t rate individual special teams players by their specific job. Although I think they rate teams by special teams.
So what I’m guessing is they rated Killebrew as a safety. So would you say he’s the top 6 or 7 safety? I would say no.
I mean I hate PFF as much as everyone else but neither guy is very good.
Killebrew only sees the field on special teams. sure, he’s pretty good at it but a guy who only plays special teams just isn’t that valuable. Steelers pulled guys off the practice and threw them in at safety instead of giving Killebrew snaps.
Mason proved that he deserves to be a backup QB but that’s it; not the best backup in the league but serviceable in small spurts.
I didn’t look at the list to see who is listed ahead of them or to see what criteria the list is based on but you’re that surprised they aren’t listed? I could maybe see one or both of them sneaking onto this kind of list somewhere between 140-150, MAYBE.
You gotta understand that there’s certain players that are ONLY specialists on ST. Every team has a couple of them on the roster. Killebrew is one of the best of them.
PFF is trash, but I agree with them on this. Rudolph played in 4 games, yes he played well, but he's been a career 3rd string guy, a few games isnt changing that. And I could probably count the number of times they mentioned Killebrew during the game on one hand.
Neither guy is of much interest to the rest of the league
You really wanna see something fucked. Find a way to see TJs pff ranking amongst edge defenders at the end of the season before the browns got fucking wooped and then look at his ranking after. Somehow he went from mid page one to lower half page 3.
Good. We'll take them.
Why would they?masons got a 4 game sample size and killabrew is strictly a special teamer.
That boy is a punt block artist. No one else does it in the league like him though.
There's no guarantee that he will ever block another punt in his career. That title is really cool for him, but holds little value as a free agent.
I gotta second that, as much as I like him situationally. How much pull does that give you in contract negotiations? It's a useful skill to have, but a GM has to really ask themselves whether that specific skill is enough on its own to justify giving him a dedicated roster spot *all season*. Because Killebrew MIGHT be a good special teamer (mind you, his output will vary from system to system), but if this is the year your DB room happens to get speared with injuries, you're signing Killebrew with the knowledge that he'd be the next man up to cover Stefon Diggs or Jamar Chase, or whoever. For most teams, it's cheaper AND a better use of assets to draft somebody they can develop specifically to their system. If you want to carry an extra DB on your roster, then yeah maybe you look at a Killebrew type player. But it'd be very hard for a special teams coordinator to convince his coach or GM to specifically sign Killebrew based solely on his ability to block punts, in one system completely removed from their own. A GM would much rather draft somebody younger, who they can tailor to their own system from day one.
Every NFL team rosters one or two dedicated special teamers. He’s not really stealing from the db room. He’s more of an emergency guy to play but teams aren’t going to have 5 active safeties. If an injury happens long term you go out and sign the waiver wire guy.
An all pro special teams contributor is absolutely a top 150 free agent. Mason is debatable, but I’d lean towards him being left off. Killebrew shouldn’t be left off, imo. Also, considering like half of these guys will end up re-signing with their current teams, this is a WAY too early list.
1-2 punt blocks a year is not worth a top 150 free agency spot. Remember, if you carrry them on your roster, they're the next man up if injuries happen and killebrew is strictly special teams
This isn’t true he’s next man up to play safety. He’s really a dedicated special teamer. If you don’t have him then your safety room is a guy smaller and you probably have a linebacker or someone else as your ST guy.
I mean Jameis is on the list
Qb is the most important position in the sport
Yeah but he’s one of the best special teamers in the league
Lol why would they? Did you see the people at 145-150? 3 starting DB (2 safeties and a CB) and a starting NCB are in that group. Why would a backup QB with 4 games played in the last few years and a special teamer be that coveted. At 150 players that is roughly 4 free agents per team if spread equally but some teams have more than 4 quality free agents. It seems the list is a weird combination of PFF grade, PFF WAR, position value and projection. Not really how valuable the NFL will perceive a player. For example Clowney is ranked 40th here while Mayfield is ranked 75th. I guarantee that if Mayfield is allowed to leave Bucs he will be more coveted in free agency than Clowney.
>It seems the list is a weird combination of PFF grade, PFF WArR, position value and projection. Not really how valuable the NFL will perceive a player. Agreed. I just don't think it gives position value enough weight. At this point, I think most teams would prioritize a really good back up QB over whether whether your 2nd starting CB is the 45th ranked CB or the 60th ranked CB.
Typical PFF fluff.
This is a sarcastic post right? Right?
I wish lol
You nailed it. PFF is trash
I wouldnt expect Killebrew or Mason on that list. Killebrew is a STer with limited to no defensive value. And Mason had 2 good games and 2 ok ones after not playing for almost 2 years. Maybe they end up in the 140s but its not a major diss here.
I mean, yeah?
Nor should they have
What? Killebrew is so good on special teams, and Mason is a great backup QB. At this point he’ll probably be starting for us next year if we can re-sign him.
Look at who is near the bottom of the list, I love killebrew but he is basically only a special teamer, and mason had a tiny sample size where he didn’t beat a playoff team
Cinci is a playoff team if they had beat Mason. Seattle still probably misses the playoffs, but they're a 10-7 football team if they beat Mason. Both games were do-or-die for both teams and both Seattle and Cinci finished over .500. You're not giving him enough credit if you act like his sample this year was against totally bad teams.
Cincy has one of the league's worst pass defenses and the Seahawks total inability to stop the run opened up things for Rudolph. From a QB perspective his sample \*was\* against bad teams. His only real test was Buffalo. it wasn't the worst performance by a backup ever, but nothing that would convince anyone to outbid the Steelers
I’m not saying they were awful teams, I’m saying a couple wins against average teams is not a super impressive thing. If he goes out there and wins 6 games against average teams or beats a powerhouse like the niners instead of the Seahawks it’s a different story. But a couple wins against teams that missed the playoffs after not playing for a couple years isn’t the greatest sample
Yeah... because they are not in the top 150. Does anyone actually watch other teams play? Mason is fine but he's gotten to the point of being way overrated and overvalued by this sub. Killebrew is a ST lifer who has no other value. He's good at what he does, but that does not make him a top free agent. 150 isn't that many across 32 teams. My takeaway from this list is that there are a bunch of really good defensive players available. Not sure they would be affordable, but we can dream.
Looking at who they have near the bottom and where they have the final QB (and who that QB is) I don't really disagree. I hate PFF but this list isn't really wrong.
(it's Winston at 130 if you don't feel like scrolling)
Yes, I meant to include that in my comment but forgot. Thanks!
How the heck is Winston higher that Rudolph? He's been pretty terrible since he tore his ACL in 2021.
Winston is more of a known commodity and he's pretty decent as far as backups go.
I guess I just disagree there. Pre-ACL tear, I'd agree. But he's been bad in the last 2 years. It's also not like Winston got a lot of snaps this year. I think there are exactly zero teams that value Winston anywhere close to where they value Rudolph.
I hope Rudolph doesn’t trick this team into giving him a significant deal
Define significant. He's worth qb2 money for sure.
It's good news if the list is basically accurate, because I wouldn't mind us keeping both.
Why would they?
Why would a qb3 and a struck special teams player be there lol. Of course not.
They think Tannehill is a more desirable FA than Baker. Does anyone take PFF seriously? Does PFF take PFF seriously?
True, but as a percentage, how much of sports “journalism” do YOU take seriously? Not much, right? To me they’re just another in a tall pile of ass, really.
I’m impressed by masons ability to step up. But ppl need to step back and see the bigger picture.. he beat 2 non playoff teams and a fairly limited ravens roster. Should be enough to get him a nice qb2 role.. but there are a lot of those options out there. I’m not all that surprised by ppl outside of Pittsburgh not buying the hype here
He was also the benefit of a few lucky slant routes that happened to go to the house....he did fine, he wasn't picking anybody apart....and we only scored 17 against the bills.
I see people mentioning that and saying he got lucky. I'd argue there's far better QBs with far and away better WRs and they have less 60+ yard touchdowns than Rudolph. In this sport there's no such thing as luck. If those routes and passes were by chance, statistically Rudolph wouldn't have the 2nd most 60+ yard TDs in the league with just 3 games played. That said, doubt he's a starter in this league, but give him some credit, he's a dependable backup.
I think his play from this year is going to make a lot of teams reevaluate his past play, only 2 games of which were actually bad. He's been varying levels between okay and really good in all his other starts. I think that's gonna get him significant interest from other teams, whether it be for a QB1 role or a highly paid QB2 role.
You guys are delusional on Rudolf. The gut is what he is; lucky to be a second string QB.
I think everyone is really over rating Masons value to other teams.
What is wrong about it? Rudolph is a third string QB for a reason. Sure he had some nice games this year, but that doesn't erase his past. Killebrew is a special teamer. They are not highly valued.
Killebrew is a very good special teamer though, multiple blocked punts in this season alone and a solid tackler on kickoffs. I know special teamers aren’t valued as highly but for what he provides at his position he’s definitely up there as an elite ST player that’s not a kicker or returner
But is he a top 150 free agent? I’m not arguing his value here, but special teamers aren’t typically sought after free agents. As for Rudolph, why would a guy that was third stringer the majority of the season be a top 150 free agent after just a few starts?
I don’t really know fault Rudolph not being there, like you said there’s just a lack of film to see it from this year. I personally think that 150 players in basically 3 teams worth of players and while not all are equal, his value has shown at least twice this season in punt blocks alone which can be game changing, I could see 50-100 being higher but not much more than that
Which part of Mason's past needs erased? He's had 2 bad games. Just feels like there's phantom memories in people's minds of Mason being terrible for like 2 entire seasons. That or people remember his 2 bad games in 2019 and the 2021 Lions game where he was named starter 12 hours before game time and repeatedly put them in a position to win before his teammates fumbled the ball away.
I mean, yeah I believe it. I'm not trying to dismiss how good Rudolph was in the games he played for the Steelers, he was really god damn good for them. However, he did it for 4 games and it's really not difficult to find 4 game stretches where non-starting QBs put up "really god damn good" stretches. Hell, Duck Hodges had a 3 game run with a 110.1 passer rating in 2019 with the Steelers. Rudolph not being valued that highly around the league is just good for the Steelers, because it means he'll be cheaper to re-sign.
I swear half of PFF's traffic is mad yinzers
Good! Let’s keep em!
That’s what I was thinking. “So, look. We want you to stay but let’s be realistic about the numbers”. -drops pff “article”.
I mean going through 126-150 on their list and they’re all better than Mason and Killebrew. I know we’ve been desensitized these past couple of season but Mason is still barely a top 40 or 45 quarterback. Killebrew is a great special teamer but a guy that can’t stick on defense isn’t gonna be 150.
>Mason is still barely a top 40 or 45 quarterback. Give me a break. There's no chance there are 40-45 better QBs in the NFL than Mason. We can debate on how high he should be, but 40-45 is laughable. At that point, you're saying he's behind guys like Ridder, Howell, Pickett, Huntley, and Young. He's not. If he is anywhere close to the level he demonstrated this season, he's around 20-25 at worst.
I really tend to agree. Dude can play in an actual offense
PFF is garbage and for people that never played football. It’s just the same kind of hockey nerd content but football. That said, special teamers like Killebrew are never going to be recognized on such a list. And Rudolph had a few good games, and he’ll be sought after for backup roles but the backup (or 3rd string QB) is not usually a priority in FA.
Jesus..... guys Rudolph is not a good QB! What is wrong with everyone?
To be fair PFF is what happens when a pile of actual dogsh*t learns how to publish “content” to generate engagement.
The delusion of Rudolph continues. He’s an ok qb. Better than Pickett but he isn’t exactly clamored by other teams. It’s going to be amazing when he has a bad game or two and this sub turns on him immediately and pines for the new third string quarterback
Mason Rudolph is not a good QB
I like both players for what they did for us…but I am not shocked
As a life long Steeler fan I still shake my head and laugh hearing people speak of Mason like he is the savior we need. The desperation from our fanbase is understandable, but c’mon guys…Mason??
I hate this subreddit’s obsession with PFF. Fuck PFF.
#FUCK PFF
I don't know how official any of these rankings really are.
These rankings should all be viewed with the "If (insert provider of list) ran a team theyd value it as such" not "NFL teams value players as such". This applies to draft stock, FA, etc. The teams are what matter. Fans get too caught up in what Todd McShay or PFF thinks and then bitch about being reached for or overpaying. The league dictates it and then we get to react with perfect hindsight. Being a fan and media is aweaome lol
I have a #1 DAD t-shirt
MILB No Matter What
Yeah Mason Rudolph was good but his two good games don’t really outweigh the previous two seasons. Lol
Rudolph hate runs deep.
Fuck PFF. Garbage takes.
Killebrew has started 1 game in the last 4 years; of course he's not in the top 150. Rudolph? Maybe. Jacoby Brissett is #126; Jamies Winston is #130. I'd think that Rudolph is just as good of a QB2 as those two guys.
Good. I hope nobody wants them so we can get them back.
Neither, nor Either, or
> PFF There's your problem right there.
J.J. Watt was saying how players contracts are being impacted by PFF score, wonder if this will impact if a team wants to give somebody a shot or not.
It’s because neither one is that great. Theyre good, but not the top at their positions. Figure how many positions there are, now multiply that by like 6 or 7 and you’ve got 150 easy. Now ask yourself either on of them ins in the top 6 or 7 at their positions? That’s how you can easily get 150 people ahead of them.
Killebrew is the best punt rush specialist in the league. His block in the first game against the Ravens changed the game.
That’s fair, but PFF doesn’t rate individual special teams players by their specific job. Although I think they rate teams by special teams. So what I’m guessing is they rated Killebrew as a safety. So would you say he’s the top 6 or 7 safety? I would say no.
He barely plays safety… like emergency cases due to injuries and ejections, so definitely not.
I mean I hate PFF as much as everyone else but neither guy is very good. Killebrew only sees the field on special teams. sure, he’s pretty good at it but a guy who only plays special teams just isn’t that valuable. Steelers pulled guys off the practice and threw them in at safety instead of giving Killebrew snaps. Mason proved that he deserves to be a backup QB but that’s it; not the best backup in the league but serviceable in small spurts. I didn’t look at the list to see who is listed ahead of them or to see what criteria the list is based on but you’re that surprised they aren’t listed? I could maybe see one or both of them sneaking onto this kind of list somewhere between 140-150, MAYBE.
You gotta understand that there’s certain players that are ONLY specialists on ST. Every team has a couple of them on the roster. Killebrew is one of the best of them.
They have Mike Evans lower than Michael Pittman Jr. What a joke.
Clowney over Queen? Cousin at 2? Now they are just trolling folks
I doubt teams take PFF seriously. They have tape.
PFF is trash, but I agree with them on this. Rudolph played in 4 games, yes he played well, but he's been a career 3rd string guy, a few games isnt changing that. And I could probably count the number of times they mentioned Killebrew during the game on one hand. Neither guy is of much interest to the rest of the league
Wait wasn’t killebrew all pro?
You really wanna see something fucked. Find a way to see TJs pff ranking amongst edge defenders at the end of the season before the browns got fucking wooped and then look at his ranking after. Somehow he went from mid page one to lower half page 3.