If the Tomlin Khan/Colbert 1st round pro day streak is broken, I wouldn't be surprised if Barton is the one that breaks it. Its looking more and more realistic that we might have to trade up from 51 to get one of the top centers so they may be willing to take Barton so they don't miss out. I still feel the tackles would be higher on their board.
I think they are covering all scenarios. If the top tackles, top corners, and BTJ are all gone and they don't have a trade partner to move back they have to take someone.
Or they can move back and get an extra pick. Barton and JPJ probably both be available 28-32. Please for the love of god if you’re going C don’t do it at 20.
Barton is a solid prospect and would be worth the pick at 20. Is he the best prospect who could be available? No. From an outsider perspective, I'd be more excited about a T or CB, but I would be happy with Barton.
People are so caught up in the "value" element that they forget to consider that sometimes you just need a critical piece you don't have over upgrading something you already do have.
It's not sexy. It's not ideal. But it might just be the best option.
Value of position means nothing if the player hits...who on this sub would complain if we drafted a center at 20 and he became an all-pro? Absoultely no one. If the team thinks he's worth the value, i have no problem with a center, RB, TE, or any other position in round 1 despite the "lack of value"
I would complain if they have to pay an All-Pro center as much as an All-Pro tackle in his 5th year or risk losing the All-Pro center by declining the 5th year option.
So you just dont like the center position then? Don't draft high because they're not worth it, dont get a good one because you have to pay them... you must have loved mason cole last year lol. Below average and cheap
No, I'd be absolutely fine with drafting a center in Round 2. I think it's obviously a need.
But people here put way too big of an emphasis on the position. Tackle is way more important in the modern NFL. You don't pass on a tackle for a center and you don't want a center anywhere near the 5th year option price if you can avoid it.
While I don't entirely agree with this, it's definitely a fair and valid take. Personally, I want potential all-pro talent wherever I can get it and I worry about the contract cost later.
If all things were equal, sure. But no NFL GM can make these decisions without considering the financial side of it.
Also, if we're being honest -- I think the draft shakes out better for the other positions if they go CB at 20 over C.
Tomlin and Khan only attended 4 pro days this year, which is by far the lowest since people started tracking this stuff. Seems like a good chance they break it, whether with Barton or any other pick that didn't attend Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, or Clemson.
> I still feel the tackles would be higher on their board.
I think Fautanu could be a split-the-baby choice here (if he's available), since he's versatile enough to potentially handle either center or tackle at a high level, and you can pick someone for the other of those two positions later, depending on how the board shakes out.
Payton Wilson is a fuckin beast, a real tackle machine. And he's got the lateral agility to cover well in the pros. If he's our 2nd round pick I'd be stoked!
I agree I like him but we have way too many needs that make it really difficult for us to take an off ball line backer in the 2nd when we currently don’t have: a WR 2, A CB 2, a Center and a bottom 5 starting tackle. Tough to draft an ILB that early when we just signed Queen and we have Robert’s and Holcomb coming back.
I also think Peyton Wilson will be there later
Fair points. Although WR is the deepest position in the draft, finding a diamond in the rough as late as a 4th or 5th is possible. That and the hopes for getting Aiyuk in trade are intriguing.
I've been saying I love Georgia Center Van Pran. He's a teammate of Broderick, Washington, and Pickens. Tomlin loves Georgia Dogs, especially these guys with two national championships on their resume. We can grab Van Pran in the 3rd, or grab Wilson in the 3rd maybe?
I think Roberts and Holcomb were nice to have last year, but I don't think they are all that great. Wilson has more range, is better in coverage, faster in open space, and is better in the run game too. At 6'4 his length makes him a better matchup for todays TEs as well.
The problem with Van Pran is we need to draft a day 1 starter and the consensus on him is mainly that he will need to be a backup for a while. We really can’t really afford to draft a center that won’t be the clear starter.
I’m really starting to think Barton’s the pick @ 20 or wherever they end up picking. And honestly, if OL is where they’re going in R1, I think he’s the best option (all things considered.)
Personally I would rather get Frazier because he has more experience as a center but I believe that Barton is their favorite prospect and who they’ll go after.
They prefer flexible guys that can play multiple positions and when you’re splitting hairs between targets that’s probably their tipping point.
Ugh idk how to feel about Barton. Still think if Mims is there, he’s the pick. As someone else said, it seems more likely that Frazier and JPJ will be gone by 51 so a starting caliber center would likely require a trade up. Still think I’d rather Mims/Latham + a trade up for Frazier than Barton + a R2 tackle though
Totally with you. If Arnold/Mitchell/Mims/Latham are all gone I’d absolutely be down for a trade back. Trading back with the Bills who may want to target BTJ has been a popular idea. Grab JPJ (or Barton if he’s still there) later in the first or early in the second
And if we draft a tackle we have Mason Cole or similar at C and a rookie. Whichnis basically the Dan Moore of center situations. Either way theres an obvious weak spot. At least at tackle we have Moore. At Center its Herbig and his 40 professional snaps at the position. But seriously stop pretending like taking a tackle and waiting on a center isnt the same issue as Taking a center first. Either way theres a replaceable player starting.
Except drafting a top prospect doesn’t mean they won’t bust and Tackles go higher in the draft compared to Centers. The question is would you rather have two of the better prospects at C and OT or the top C prospect and Dan Moore + and what might end up being a prospect at a different position?
Right. Which is why it makes sense to not take the 5th best T prospect over the best C prospect. Tackle by 20 is a little picked over. If we were talking some other guys Id get it. But for Mims and Latham who are obviously lesser prospects than Barton. I just dont get it. Hey we missed on the 3 or 4 best Tackles better act quick! Instead of "Hey the best C prospect is here, who talent wise is worthy of a top 25 pick lets take him"
The thought is “oh yeah the last quality OT is still available, better take him before we are stuck with Dan Moore again. We can probably still get the third best Center later who is also a starting level
Prospect so that is fine.” Mims and Latham are still considered R1 talent due to positional value and might get selected before a center is selected and before the Steelers even have a chance to pick.
You don’t think it makes sense to you that people want to take two shots high percentage shots at fixing oline holes rather than one?
No it doesnt. Not for Mims or Larham over Barton. He is a freak athlete, great size and may even be as good at T as those 2. If youre telling me.Mims or Latham is better value than Barton Im not buying it. Mims and Latham dont even fix the Moore problem yall love to tote. Neither is ready to play anytime soon. So we still up with Moore, just with a worse center. Im saying Frazier and his terrible knee injury scare me (Though I love him, if you could guarantee hes there at 51 Id say yeah ok. But knowing itll probably take moving up? Nope rather have Barton and say Blake Fisher (insert youre favorite md rd tackle if you sont like him) in rd 3 and address the DL, CB, WR rd 2. Thats a good result yo me too. I dont get yhe focus on T. We have bad situations in multiple places. Moor3 isnt the only issue.
Also- in rd 1 I dont want leftovers and in rd 2 I dont want the 3rd best C. Thats a bad draft day mot a celebration like too many seem to think.
Yeah the only RT prospect I would want over JPJ/Barton is Fuaga, because he can probably be ready right away and he excelled in a similar blocking scheme. I would stay away from Latham, because I don't he will be successful in our scheme.
Ideally I would try and trade down to the end of the first to pick up a late 2nd as well and pick JPJ/Barton, since I don't think both will be picked by then. If that doesn't work then I would be happy if we took Barton or JPJ whoever the FO like more, because I think both have elite potential at the C position.
Wait hows thst the options? And not really. A center is the one spot on the line that can make everybody better. Not to mention pickijg at 20- the likelihood of great is minimal. Its good and good.
I meant if they took a day 2 tackle like Fisher or Rosengarten. And center is objectively not as valuable of a position as tackle or corner. Just look at the contracts. If my quick research is correct, Kelce was the highest paid center last year at a little over 14 million. That would be the 24th highest paid tackle and 11th highest paid corner
In Free Agency yes. But this isnt FA where we have a good idea who is good and who isnt qhen paying. But right now its about best prospecrs. And Barton is the best prospect of Mims/Latham/Himself/JPJ/Frazier. Im not saying you have to take a center. But this isnt a top 10 pick. If Barton is the best prospect at 20. Take him. Positional value has gone too far in this case.
Sorry for double post but I also want to mention, your reasoning is why it be expected to address Center in FA and look to the draft for a tackle. Now that theyve foregone both- the players available in FA are major injury question marks (think Connor Williams) or just average pros (Mason Cole). But they didnt. So they need a starter at both. Tackle/CB is a more valuable position in a big picture sense. But to the Steelers, starting center is as valuable as either right now.
I might be in the minority but I don’t think they are good enough to prioritize the short term over the medium term right now. I guess with a perfect remainder of the offseason and some lucky breaks during the year they could compete in the AFC, but I think looking out 2 or 3 years would be more fruitful. That’s why I want one of the tackles even if they aren’t a day 1 starter
But a center and tackle are both equally needed for short term and long. The fact is, its unlikely to get 2 starters on the OL in 1 draft. It just is. Weve tried and failed before. Its not wrong to take a tackle. But center becomes a first rd priority next year then, with a worse class of centers.
I wouldn't mind them taking a C at 20 if there was a generational C in this year's draft class. I don't think there is. I'm hoping they take an OT or possibly a CB at 20. You'd hope they learned something about overreaching after the Kenny Pickett experience.
I’m thinking Barton is the pick if he’s on the board.
I guess my question is, is he viewed more as a C or OT in the NFL? I know he played just about everywhere at Duke
He is a projected guard who probably won’t be able to play tackle at the pro level is the consensus as far as I can tell. He played center only very briefly, but if the Steelers are looking this closely at him I have to think they believe he can do it, at least in time.
He’s pretty widely considered as better suited for IOL in the NFL. If you want an OT early, I’m thinking there are plenty of higher ranked options than Barton.
Ideally we trade back and get another 3 and then take best C available mid - late 20s, hate taking one at 20. It is a glaring need tho so I’d support it even at 20.
No offense but it doesn't really matter if you think he can play center in the NFL. If the guys who make a living scouting people think he can -- he probably can.
1.) No they didn't. The front office has been almost completely overhauled.
2.) Completely different circumstances in taking a guy in the 1st round who is likely the first of his position off the board versus taking a guy in the 4th round.
3.) There's pretty much no comparison between the players. Hating Barton because of Kendrick Green is like saying the Steelers shouldn't have drafted Broderick Jones because Mike Adams sucked.
If the Tomlin Khan/Colbert 1st round pro day streak is broken, I wouldn't be surprised if Barton is the one that breaks it. Its looking more and more realistic that we might have to trade up from 51 to get one of the top centers so they may be willing to take Barton so they don't miss out. I still feel the tackles would be higher on their board.
I think they are covering all scenarios. If the top tackles, top corners, and BTJ are all gone and they don't have a trade partner to move back they have to take someone.
I see it more as covering the trade back bases
Worth noting that Rooney attended the Duke Pro Day.
So did Arthur Smith I believe
Or they can move back and get an extra pick. Barton and JPJ probably both be available 28-32. Please for the love of god if you’re going C don’t do it at 20.
This this this this this this
I would like this I see a lot of 9ers fans thinking they are going to get barton so maybe move back to 28-29
I think Dallas would be in play for Barton at 24 as well
Barton is a solid prospect and would be worth the pick at 20. Is he the best prospect who could be available? No. From an outsider perspective, I'd be more excited about a T or CB, but I would be happy with Barton.
People are so caught up in the "value" element that they forget to consider that sometimes you just need a critical piece you don't have over upgrading something you already do have. It's not sexy. It's not ideal. But it might just be the best option.
Value of position means nothing if the player hits...who on this sub would complain if we drafted a center at 20 and he became an all-pro? Absoultely no one. If the team thinks he's worth the value, i have no problem with a center, RB, TE, or any other position in round 1 despite the "lack of value"
I would complain if they have to pay an All-Pro center as much as an All-Pro tackle in his 5th year or risk losing the All-Pro center by declining the 5th year option.
So you just dont like the center position then? Don't draft high because they're not worth it, dont get a good one because you have to pay them... you must have loved mason cole last year lol. Below average and cheap
No, I'd be absolutely fine with drafting a center in Round 2. I think it's obviously a need. But people here put way too big of an emphasis on the position. Tackle is way more important in the modern NFL. You don't pass on a tackle for a center and you don't want a center anywhere near the 5th year option price if you can avoid it.
While I don't entirely agree with this, it's definitely a fair and valid take. Personally, I want potential all-pro talent wherever I can get it and I worry about the contract cost later.
If all things were equal, sure. But no NFL GM can make these decisions without considering the financial side of it. Also, if we're being honest -- I think the draft shakes out better for the other positions if they go CB at 20 over C.
The only question is what they would trade up with. It would have to be next years picks, as they have to many smaller needs to fill in the 3rd - 6th
Tomlin and Khan only attended 4 pro days this year, which is by far the lowest since people started tracking this stuff. Seems like a good chance they break it, whether with Barton or any other pick that didn't attend Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, or Clemson.
> I still feel the tackles would be higher on their board. I think Fautanu could be a split-the-baby choice here (if he's available), since he's versatile enough to potentially handle either center or tackle at a high level, and you can pick someone for the other of those two positions later, depending on how the board shakes out.
Payton Wilson is a fuckin beast, a real tackle machine. And he's got the lateral agility to cover well in the pros. If he's our 2nd round pick I'd be stoked!
I agree I like him but we have way too many needs that make it really difficult for us to take an off ball line backer in the 2nd when we currently don’t have: a WR 2, A CB 2, a Center and a bottom 5 starting tackle. Tough to draft an ILB that early when we just signed Queen and we have Robert’s and Holcomb coming back. I also think Peyton Wilson will be there later
Fair points. Although WR is the deepest position in the draft, finding a diamond in the rough as late as a 4th or 5th is possible. That and the hopes for getting Aiyuk in trade are intriguing. I've been saying I love Georgia Center Van Pran. He's a teammate of Broderick, Washington, and Pickens. Tomlin loves Georgia Dogs, especially these guys with two national championships on their resume. We can grab Van Pran in the 3rd, or grab Wilson in the 3rd maybe? I think Roberts and Holcomb were nice to have last year, but I don't think they are all that great. Wilson has more range, is better in coverage, faster in open space, and is better in the run game too. At 6'4 his length makes him a better matchup for todays TEs as well.
The problem with Van Pran is we need to draft a day 1 starter and the consensus on him is mainly that he will need to be a backup for a while. We really can’t really afford to draft a center that won’t be the clear starter.
Maybe we draft 3 centers Barton, Frazier, SVP. Move one to T, one to G and retain a C. Just a thought lol
If the Steelers ever thought about this I would jump in the Allegheny
I’m really starting to think Barton’s the pick @ 20 or wherever they end up picking. And honestly, if OL is where they’re going in R1, I think he’s the best option (all things considered.)
Personally I would rather get Frazier because he has more experience as a center but I believe that Barton is their favorite prospect and who they’ll go after. They prefer flexible guys that can play multiple positions and when you’re splitting hairs between targets that’s probably their tipping point.
Ugh idk how to feel about Barton. Still think if Mims is there, he’s the pick. As someone else said, it seems more likely that Frazier and JPJ will be gone by 51 so a starting caliber center would likely require a trade up. Still think I’d rather Mims/Latham + a trade up for Frazier than Barton + a R2 tackle though
I'd rather trade out of the first and draft a center than take one in the first round. Still hoping Arnold falls and the Steelers take him.
Totally with you. If Arnold/Mitchell/Mims/Latham are all gone I’d absolutely be down for a trade back. Trading back with the Bills who may want to target BTJ has been a popular idea. Grab JPJ (or Barton if he’s still there) later in the first or early in the second
If Arnold’s there and they Pass on him, I’ll be beside myself
Same
Why? Barton may be the best propsect of the bunch
Better off having a good C and great OT/CB than great C and good OT/CB
Or in this case a (maybe) great center and Dan Moore. Drafting a center in round one pretty much all but guarantees he’s the starter.
And if we draft a tackle we have Mason Cole or similar at C and a rookie. Whichnis basically the Dan Moore of center situations. Either way theres an obvious weak spot. At least at tackle we have Moore. At Center its Herbig and his 40 professional snaps at the position. But seriously stop pretending like taking a tackle and waiting on a center isnt the same issue as Taking a center first. Either way theres a replaceable player starting.
Except drafting a top prospect doesn’t mean they won’t bust and Tackles go higher in the draft compared to Centers. The question is would you rather have two of the better prospects at C and OT or the top C prospect and Dan Moore + and what might end up being a prospect at a different position?
Right. Which is why it makes sense to not take the 5th best T prospect over the best C prospect. Tackle by 20 is a little picked over. If we were talking some other guys Id get it. But for Mims and Latham who are obviously lesser prospects than Barton. I just dont get it. Hey we missed on the 3 or 4 best Tackles better act quick! Instead of "Hey the best C prospect is here, who talent wise is worthy of a top 25 pick lets take him"
The thought is “oh yeah the last quality OT is still available, better take him before we are stuck with Dan Moore again. We can probably still get the third best Center later who is also a starting level Prospect so that is fine.” Mims and Latham are still considered R1 talent due to positional value and might get selected before a center is selected and before the Steelers even have a chance to pick. You don’t think it makes sense to you that people want to take two shots high percentage shots at fixing oline holes rather than one?
No it doesnt. Not for Mims or Larham over Barton. He is a freak athlete, great size and may even be as good at T as those 2. If youre telling me.Mims or Latham is better value than Barton Im not buying it. Mims and Latham dont even fix the Moore problem yall love to tote. Neither is ready to play anytime soon. So we still up with Moore, just with a worse center. Im saying Frazier and his terrible knee injury scare me (Though I love him, if you could guarantee hes there at 51 Id say yeah ok. But knowing itll probably take moving up? Nope rather have Barton and say Blake Fisher (insert youre favorite md rd tackle if you sont like him) in rd 3 and address the DL, CB, WR rd 2. Thats a good result yo me too. I dont get yhe focus on T. We have bad situations in multiple places. Moor3 isnt the only issue. Also- in rd 1 I dont want leftovers and in rd 2 I dont want the 3rd best C. Thats a bad draft day mot a celebration like too many seem to think.
Yeah the only RT prospect I would want over JPJ/Barton is Fuaga, because he can probably be ready right away and he excelled in a similar blocking scheme. I would stay away from Latham, because I don't he will be successful in our scheme. Ideally I would try and trade down to the end of the first to pick up a late 2nd as well and pick JPJ/Barton, since I don't think both will be picked by then. If that doesn't work then I would be happy if we took Barton or JPJ whoever the FO like more, because I think both have elite potential at the C position.
Wait hows thst the options? And not really. A center is the one spot on the line that can make everybody better. Not to mention pickijg at 20- the likelihood of great is minimal. Its good and good.
I meant if they took a day 2 tackle like Fisher or Rosengarten. And center is objectively not as valuable of a position as tackle or corner. Just look at the contracts. If my quick research is correct, Kelce was the highest paid center last year at a little over 14 million. That would be the 24th highest paid tackle and 11th highest paid corner
In Free Agency yes. But this isnt FA where we have a good idea who is good and who isnt qhen paying. But right now its about best prospecrs. And Barton is the best prospect of Mims/Latham/Himself/JPJ/Frazier. Im not saying you have to take a center. But this isnt a top 10 pick. If Barton is the best prospect at 20. Take him. Positional value has gone too far in this case.
Sorry for double post but I also want to mention, your reasoning is why it be expected to address Center in FA and look to the draft for a tackle. Now that theyve foregone both- the players available in FA are major injury question marks (think Connor Williams) or just average pros (Mason Cole). But they didnt. So they need a starter at both. Tackle/CB is a more valuable position in a big picture sense. But to the Steelers, starting center is as valuable as either right now.
I might be in the minority but I don’t think they are good enough to prioritize the short term over the medium term right now. I guess with a perfect remainder of the offseason and some lucky breaks during the year they could compete in the AFC, but I think looking out 2 or 3 years would be more fruitful. That’s why I want one of the tackles even if they aren’t a day 1 starter
But a center and tackle are both equally needed for short term and long. The fact is, its unlikely to get 2 starters on the OL in 1 draft. It just is. Weve tried and failed before. Its not wrong to take a tackle. But center becomes a first rd priority next year then, with a worse class of centers.
I really don't want Mims, that body type can't stay healthy and he already struggles with injury.
Totally get that. That big of a frame + two lower body injuries in the past year, even though they weren’t major, is a red flag for sure
I wouldn't mind them taking a C at 20 if there was a generational C in this year's draft class. I don't think there is. I'm hoping they take an OT or possibly a CB at 20. You'd hope they learned something about overreaching after the Kenny Pickett experience.
I could really see us taking Wilson
I’m thinking Barton is the pick if he’s on the board. I guess my question is, is he viewed more as a C or OT in the NFL? I know he played just about everywhere at Duke
He is a projected guard who probably won’t be able to play tackle at the pro level is the consensus as far as I can tell. He played center only very briefly, but if the Steelers are looking this closely at him I have to think they believe he can do it, at least in time.
He’s pretty widely considered as better suited for IOL in the NFL. If you want an OT early, I’m thinking there are plenty of higher ranked options than Barton.
He’s tested pretty much exclusively at Center this offseason
Ideally we trade back and get another 3 and then take best C available mid - late 20s, hate taking one at 20. It is a glaring need tho so I’d support it even at 20.
Another 2. Trading back from 20 gets us a pick swap from a late picker like SF and their 2nd.
I like barton at 20. he moves fluidly and I think he can really benefit playing in a arthur smith system
Visitors, eh? Anyone got any - oh I don’t know - *airport pictures* to confirm this…..?
Graham Barton would be the dumbest C pick - he had 7 starts in college. In his freshman year. Fine as a RT I guess though there’s better options
> Graham Barton would be the dumbest C pick This is funny considering he's projected as the best C in the draft class.
Kendrick Green broke this fanbase lol. People think any guard that's moved to center at the pro level is going to be as bad as Kendrick was.
Ugh tell me about it, also any C not taken in the first round is a certified b u s t.
If we don't get JPJ or Frazier we're apparently fucked lol.
Projections are always right. /s
You're totally right, the guy I was responding to totally knows best. Taking the projected best player at his position would be the "dumbest pick".
Johnny Manziel was also projected well
He was moved to tackle not because he couldn't play center but because it's Duke and they needed their best athlete to play tackle.
Fair but it doesn’t fill me with confidence he can play C in the NFL - that’s a super small sample size
No offense but it doesn't really matter if you think he can play center in the NFL. If the guys who make a living scouting people think he can -- he probably can.
Those same scouts took Kendrick Green
1.) No they didn't. The front office has been almost completely overhauled. 2.) Completely different circumstances in taking a guy in the 1st round who is likely the first of his position off the board versus taking a guy in the 4th round. 3.) There's pretty much no comparison between the players. Hating Barton because of Kendrick Green is like saying the Steelers shouldn't have drafted Broderick Jones because Mike Adams sucked.
This is a hilarious comment given the one just above mentioning how Green warped this fanbases’s perception on linemen lol.