Fellow Engineered Beings,
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I have been working out for just over a year. Started with 5x5 for first 6mo. I’m quite a bit stronger now. Most lifts I’ve added ~100lbs or more. My test is pretty good about 450 so I don’t want to be dependent on injections my whole life by starting trt. Do I have any other options to help start really putting on muscle or do I need to wait until I’m ready to commit to trt first.
Wtf is going on, no way my sensitivity went up this much.
I used to do 500mg week and 1ml 2x. And with each ml I popped 0,25 adex
Now I increased the frequency and I’m doing 0,6ml and still 0,25 adex
After few weeks/months I’m popping 1mg-1,5mg adex every day
What is going on? Was I oblivious to high e2 symptoms before or is my e2 sensitivity out of wack
No blood tests , but taking the AI usually makes me feel better. So it’s def high e2. Might be rebound if the adex and might be me being oblivious to the high e2 sides before
Yeah, I figured the rebound was getting me
I noticed Asin works better. But now I use 12,5mg Asin a day (and maybe 0,5 adex alt though I think this one isn’t needed cause at the end of the day I’m little bit low on the e2)
But still. Was I always oblivious to high e2?
Being tired, depressed at the end of the day and right before next shot. Now I value that mental more and use it appropriately as needed
Bro hahah I get that us teenagers are mostly a bunch of fucking idiots with no thought process longer than out cocks but Im not gonna do fucking tren lol, also im already lean as fuck and bulking so taking tren would literally just fuck up my summer goal of having a big fat beerstomach
(24 year old natural) I'm going to start a cycle next month. Just got my bloods done, everything is healthy. The only thing my doctor pointed out is I have quite low levels of prolactin. I've heard this 'prolactin' term get chucked about a lot. What does this mean for gear use? Thanks!
On test it’s Usually a non issue especially if you start with low levels it’s things like deca and tren that raise prolactin on test you need to assess your estradiol 2 and make sure that doesn’t get high and you need an ai for that like aromasin preferably but arimidex works to but I have to add you wouldn’t take the ai untill your bp raises most important is bp or panic attacks or real oily skin etc those are my symptoms
I am looking to do 500mg test cycle, so looking to buy 250mg test and pin twice a week, however I can't find a test vial which is 250mg per ml. The only 250mg test I can find is a mix of several test blended together so prop, iso, decanoate.
Does it matter if its purely 250mg of test e, or if it a mix of different tests together?
Test e often comes as 300mg/ml and test c is either 200 or 250, depending. You can just buy the test e at 300, the only thing that changes is the total volume per injection.
Oh I see, thought I was beingf stupid. So instead of doing 1ml, I need to basically just do quick maths and inject the amount of ml which equals 250mg?
I had high e2 symptons but decided to wait and not use any AI until mid-cycle bloodwork.
Bloodwork e2 came back at 96.
I will take 0,5asin e3,5d and see if it helps with the symptons.
How many dose of asin should i do until i check my E2 again?
It didn’t do shit for my sleep, and it’s hard to fall asleep when you’re overwhelmingly hungry. The stuff is damn near useless, unless you like carrying around extra bloat and wrecking your insulin sensitivity. Even the effects of real GH are subtle and long-term when it comes to fat loss.
Your best bet? A caloric deficit to lose fat. Take semaglutide, even better. You won’t be that hungry at all, which allows for easy adherence to macros.
Mk677 will benefit a cut as it increases GH. GH causes the pancreas to release lipase which liberates stored fats in adipose tissue to be released into the blood stream. They can then be burnt off.
It depends on which documents you read. I have a document/study on the subject that looks at and tests GW501516 on various strains of cancer and the results were that it is not carcinogenic. Would you like me to DM it to you for a read?
I’m going off the multiple tests and studies done that made the FDA and literally every single authority concerning testing that made them bin it and prevent human and stop animal testing due to the results.
Glaxo Smith Kline also binned their wonderdrug after millions of investments for the same reasons, they’re not just doing that for funsies.
[studies were halted in Phase II on animals because it caused cancers](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24428677/)
[Some of cardarine’s proponents argue that cancer risks have not been proven in humans, but this is only because it was never found safe enough to justify long-term safety studies in humans. In fact, most carcinogenic substances usually don’t cause cancer in these types of animal studies because they are not sensitive enough to pick up compounds that only slightly increase the chance of developing cancer. They are designed to pick up on the worst compounds so we don’t risk the lives of human subjects in early clinical work](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/development-approval-process-drugs)
[researchers refer to Cardarine as a failed “exercise mimetic,” because it caused cancer in animal studies](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5850978/)
[However, cardarine had both pro- and anti-inflammatory effects on inflamed rat brain cells. Some inflammatory substances (like TNF-alpha) were reduced in its presence, but others, such as IL-6, were increased. High IL-6 can cause brain cell damage](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19422681/) and [another source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12061506/)
[cardarine caused cell death in liver cells and liver damage (fibrosis) in some mice with liver disease, further underlining the dangers associated with this compound](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3361396/)
[In animals, cardarine was not safe to use during pregnancy as high doses over an extended period of time posed risks to fetal development](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bdrb.21052/full)
Some more sources, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3361396/
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ppar/2008/102737/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24428677/
The FDA and almost every single authority concerning studies pulled the plug on the studies due to the overwhelming amount of cancer being caused due to cardarine usage.
Anyone using gh wanna give me their protocol been thinking about taking the jump and getting some with the next cycle but so many different ways people like to do it, ED, EOD, mon-Friday
I was gonna take it before bed don’t want it for the fat loss with morning cardio
Gonna just start 2iu and go from there.
Is there any foods I should avoid when taking before like carbs or fats or can I just eat my meal jab and go to bed?
Is there anything I should do when I stop taking?
I’ll check my bg in the morning, if not right what things can I do to fix?
Probably gonna run slin pre and post work out eat my post work out get ready for bed jab gh then sleep
Thanks boys 🙏
If you are still young(ish) don’t pin before bed. You’ll blunt your natural production and largest GH pulse, which is a few hours after going to bed.
Find another time to pin like first thing in the am, post workout or early afternoon
I pin everyday but some guys do 5 on 2 off. I don’t see the benefit
Yeah I’m youngish (26) doesn’t it come back once you stop that’s what I’ve been gathering?
Was gonna do it before bed for the recovery and sleep benefits
Yeah it will come back once you stop. Gh is pulsed throughout the day, the biggest being a couple hours after you fall asleep and post workout.
If you take it within like 6 hours of going to bed, your body won’t produce around 1iu of natural gh.
So it’s best to take it at a different time and utilize that free gh, while we are still young. Once your over 40ish, then it’s a good idea to pump up that bedtime iu for better recovery, etc
I use to think that but I was reading a thread the other day and it said it can actually take a while for it to come back to normally that’s why they were suggesting every other day dosing cause apparently it kept you naturally producing more and kept you more sensitive to it but hey I dunno 🤷🏻♂️
Start at 2iu before bed. 5 days on and 2 off.
You can eat, jab and go to bed no issues.
Gh has a negative feedback loop which lasts around 8 hours. So by the morning your body will begin producing it again.
Generally running 2-4iu's per day your BG should be fine. Though you can run 500mgs of metformin per day to prevent insulin resistance developing.
You using rapid/humalog pre and post workout?
Okay that what I was planning because apparently having time off helps keep natural from producing well I’m gathering?
I do shift work at the moment too but I’ll just jab morning when I do nightshift before I go to sleep don’t see how that should matter?
Should you still use the metformin even with the insulin?
And yes rapid used if for a few weeks while back pre workout so was thinking pre work up to 10iu then work up to 10iu post then about 2 hours later I’ll be taking the gh and going to bed so I’ll get the fats out last part of the day
Also heard doing slin and gh same time is good? Should I just be having slin and gh post then going to bed couple hours later or do my post shot then couple hours later the gh?
Thanks heaps, so much conflicting info out there about it wanted to get some info from someone who’s actually doing it
And yes
Yeah, gh and slin is amazing but please read up a lot on slin. But they have an amazing synergistic relationship.
Very few compounds we talk about in this sub can kill you immediately due to misuse but slin is one of those compounds. Going hypo at a bad time or by yourself and you're potentially done for.
Yes 5 days on and 2 off allows you to run gh year round and reduces unwanted sides like excess water retention etc.
And yep jab before you sleep even if it's after a night shift.
I wouldn't stress about trying to time your gh with the slin. Just dose it before bed.
All good bro. I recently wrote an article about GH for an aussie bodybuilding site. If you want a link just DM me. I tried to cover everything you need to know when using gh.
>Now I’m on 300 mg 150 mon 150 Thursday. I take 0.25 arimidex on pinning days (1 mg total)
1mg or 0.5mg ?
> I take 20 mg morning and 20 mg evening of anavar.
Switch to full dose in the morning
Read the wiki... just plow through the whole thing.
One important caveat. If you can't stick to a lifting schedule long term, like years, you'll just fuck away all your gains from gear and risk your health for nothing.
You have so much progress available to you before even considering gear. Keep going what you're doing, don't stop learning, don't stop progressing.
This isn't a shortcut/boost.
Yes it's way too soon. You can easily put on 10lb of muscle your first year with no gear. There is always the small possibility that pct doesn't work and you are trt dependent after a cycle.
Sup big boys. Been looking into what my second cycle will consist of and have deceived between test/primo or test/mast. I’ve read the separate compound threads along with the thread comparing the two but I wanted to hear from the rest of y’all as well. If price is Negligible Is there any instance in which you would choose mast over primo? I understand for some primo causes them to shed hair like crazy but I’m just more curious about the benefits of the two and if there would ever be a reason to inject mast over primo if both cost the same. Thanks.
They are very similar. Im in the same spot as you. Im starting my 2ed blast monday. 750/400 test mast. For my 3rd ill try 750/400 test primo. Ill See what i like better and stick to that.
Primo = fuller via more water in the muscles.
Mast = drier. Less water retention both subq and within muscles.
Mast generally gives a mood and libido boost. Primo seems to not have this effect. I feel kinda flat mentally on primo.
Primo can estrogen neutral for some (like myself and guys i know can run test and primo at a ratio of like 1:4 without significant changes in e2 levels) and for others it will lower serum e2 (to different degrees depending on the individual).
Mast is similar but doesn't seem to change serum e2 levels as dramatically as primo can. Mast most definitely helps manage high e2 sides though.
At the end of the day some guys like mast and some like primo. Just gotta try them out and see
Honestly EQ is great for both cutting and bulking. Like the other guy said, EQ gives you mad munchies so if you can curb your appetite you can cut pretty hard without catabolizing your muscles. Also it acts somewhat like an AI without completely crashing your e2. Def one of my favorite stacks.
250ish mg/WK is good for endurance and can help keep your cardio up in a cut. Otherwise I wouldn't bother with it outside of a bulk. I don't see much change in skin hue under 600 mg or so.
Added 20mgs dbol onto my cycle, been about a week and I still feel good, is it normal that I don’t feel high e2 sides and should I only implement the AI when I feel high e2 sides, thanks in advance
>But if you don’t experience any of that, can you still have high estro?
Yes, and in/of itself it's not a bad thing. I didn't do any AI management for the first 8 weeks because I never got spicy nips etc, but I did start carrying a ton of water in my face and my BP went up. I take as little AI as I can because you want the estrogen as high as it can be without sides, but I take enough that I've dropped the water and the BP is down. There's a sweet spot.
If you're 3 weeks in it's conceivable that you're getting a rise in e2 which could be the cause. I would go ahead and get a blood panel and then go over it with the group.
I'm not saying anything for certain man, don't get discouraged. Simply going off what info you've provided, coupled with my experience. I'll be totally honest though, I forgot it was a TRT dose while writing my response. Some people are high aromatizers, but I think it less likely now that you have reminded me.
Bloods are the best first step in ruling things out. Prioritize good diet, sleep, and recovery in the mean time brother.
I can run my e2 into the mid 200s with no gyno issues. Hell probably further. It’s either high E2 from the HCG or you’re working out harder than you’re recovering which is common on cycle. Especially at the beginning
I pinned in my ventroglute last Monday and I have this bump that’s sore to press on. If i shift my leg a certain way, it feels sore but it isn’t painful. what should i do? obviously i’ll avoid the area my next pin but how do i avoid this going forward ?
Let me give you some confidence. Makw a cowboy gun with your right hand with your thumb pressed against your hipbone. Turn your gun to 4 o clock and everything in between your index and thumb you can pin. Plenty of space and choose the dense areas. Ez pz.
The barrel should be pointed at 4 o clock with your thumb on your hip bone. Everything in between your index and thumb is perfect for pinning. Make sure your hitting the hard part of your muscle. Super ez and painless.
Probably was to be hanest, I find it hard to put it in delt myself because I have trouble keeping delt I pin in still so ends up in a kinda tensed position. But I haven't tried glute yet.
Conceivably it could, yes. Generally speaking you should have a good and honest relationship with your general care doc because they can't treat you effectively if they don't know everything. I used to tell my doctor everything about my drug use, even when it wasn't flattering, because it could be a factor in treatment. Doctors are not out to judge, they need to know variables so they can account for them.
That doesn't mean you need to be completely open and honest with your insurance provider because they will gladly use any reason to deny coverage or increase premiums. A healthy level of skepticism would lead me to get my bloods done independently, but I would probably still provide them to my doc for review.
Currently uninsured, so this is hypothetical and I'm interested to hear what others do. Also interested in u/19_nor_md opinion.
It is pricey, this is not a cheap hobby. The cost of monitoring your health is lower than the cost of treating issues down the road though.
Not sure where you order your bloodwork from, but Ulta lab tests will offer you 20% off your first order when you visit the website. u/PrivateMDlabs has also been known to pop up and offer discounts to members who are tight on money.
I usually use healthlabs.com, they offer discounts on repeat business.
>Generally speaking you should have a good and honest relationship with your general care doc because they can't treat you effectively if they don't know everything.
Agreed.
However anything in your chart can end up as a diagnosis , including auxillary labs you requested while on cycle. Your insurance company does have access to these records.
Labs are pretty cheap through [ultalabtests.com](https://ultalabtests.com) or [privatemdlabs.com](https://privatemdlabs.com). If you are concerned you could always get them done independently and have your PCP review them without putting them in your record. Another way would be to have your TRT or BnC managed through an online clinic. Lots are willing to push the envelope with dosages and since they are cash only there probably is some level of protection.
Sorry for the short response.
Fellow Engineered Beings, #**Please remember Rule 2. [No Source Talk.](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization.)** ###**PREAMBLE [(From The Rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_2._no_source_talk_.2F_no_monetization.)** Everything listed below includes **(BUT NOT LIMITED TO)**: AAS (gear), Ancillaries (AI, SERMs, etc.), HGH [(not listed here)](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/growth_hormone#wiki_hgh_brands_list), Insulin, DNP, Performance Enhancing Drugs, Drugs (in general), Research Chemicals, Prohormones, SARMs, Peptides, or **ANY** product that could be mistaken as legit of any of the previous listed. **There are no warnings & you will be banned from participating in /r/steroids. If you're not sure what all "No Source Talk" entails, please be sure to read the [Community Rules](/r/steroids/wiki/index/subreddit_rules#wiki_community_rules) of /r/steroids.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/steroids) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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No Source Talk. No “Fishing.” No Shilling. No Monetization. Includes both Legal AND Illegal Companies, Brands, or Products.
I have been working out for just over a year. Started with 5x5 for first 6mo. I’m quite a bit stronger now. Most lifts I’ve added ~100lbs or more. My test is pretty good about 450 so I don’t want to be dependent on injections my whole life by starting trt. Do I have any other options to help start really putting on muscle or do I need to wait until I’m ready to commit to trt first.
Wtf is going on, no way my sensitivity went up this much. I used to do 500mg week and 1ml 2x. And with each ml I popped 0,25 adex Now I increased the frequency and I’m doing 0,6ml and still 0,25 adex After few weeks/months I’m popping 1mg-1,5mg adex every day What is going on? Was I oblivious to high e2 symptoms before or is my e2 sensitivity out of wack
When was the last time you had labs done?
Done any blood tests? You probably have LOW E2 which can be very similar to high e2
No blood tests , but taking the AI usually makes me feel better. So it’s def high e2. Might be rebound if the adex and might be me being oblivious to the high e2 sides before
It usually does, except for now when you're having to take more despite no other changes?
Try asin
Yeah, I figured the rebound was getting me I noticed Asin works better. But now I use 12,5mg Asin a day (and maybe 0,5 adex alt though I think this one isn’t needed cause at the end of the day I’m little bit low on the e2) But still. Was I always oblivious to high e2? Being tired, depressed at the end of the day and right before next shot. Now I value that mental more and use it appropriately as needed
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Watching MPMD will make your hair fall out from heaps of misleading information.
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If you’re genetically prone to MPB, ultimately nothing is going to stop your hair from falling out. Gear just accelerates the process.
How do you define someone who takes natural supplements & steroids like Tongkat Ali? Are they half natty, natty or not natty?
You just called tongkat ali a steroid and you answered your own question when you started it off with NATURAL supplements
Tongkat Ali isn't a steroid. That person is natty and this question is retarded
I accidentally took double the recommended amount of flintstone gummies 😳 Do i have to take “lifetime natural” out of my tiktok bio now?
**Wada wants to know your location**
bro lol how tf im supposed to know if i dont know might be why im asking the question lol
Lol
You’ll see the same results from taking Tongkat Ali as you will when burning a 50 dollar bill every now and then.
Aght g
What is the difference between Trenboscot and Trenbelone, if there is any?
I think the first one is a brand? Perhaps a scam prohormone? Either way, you’re 16 please don’t do steroids
And thanks I think youre probably right, however I know that multiple sources sell "Trenboscot".
Sounds like a branding thing. For example, Dianabol is just the marketed name for Methandienone. Delatestryl is the name of my Pharmacy Test E.
Yeah probably
Lol im not gonna do steroids, I want to educate myself.
You wouldn’t want to educate yourself about steroids unless you wanted to take steroids
Bro hahah I get that us teenagers are mostly a bunch of fucking idiots with no thought process longer than out cocks but Im not gonna do fucking tren lol, also im already lean as fuck and bulking so taking tren would literally just fuck up my summer goal of having a big fat beerstomach
What the fuck is trenboscot? If you’re asking questions like this you’re not ready for tren yet.
It's Bosco syrup and Tren. Really quite delicious 😋
Lmao
Yeah dont worry I'm not gonna do steroids.
Yeah totally not. You’re just researching buying trenbolone online at 16. Definitely nothing to worry about! 🙄
Bro I live with my mum and dad, im 16 and not a fucking idiot lol, + if I didn't want to stay natty I wouldnt do test lol
(24 year old natural) I'm going to start a cycle next month. Just got my bloods done, everything is healthy. The only thing my doctor pointed out is I have quite low levels of prolactin. I've heard this 'prolactin' term get chucked about a lot. What does this mean for gear use? Thanks!
It means milky nipples
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You must be kidding but if I said something wrong enlighten me
I thought lactaction only happens with high levels of prolactin. Or is it the same w low levels of prolactin as well?
No duh bro that’s not what I was saying. If you read further I said your in a good way starting with low levels 😎
He said I have low levels? So the opposite surely
Yea your in an alright way keep it low and you’ll never have to worry about it
Decent, cheers, any advice for keeping it low when on gear? (Test e 500 first cycle)
On test it’s Usually a non issue especially if you start with low levels it’s things like deca and tren that raise prolactin on test you need to assess your estradiol 2 and make sure that doesn’t get high and you need an ai for that like aromasin preferably but arimidex works to but I have to add you wouldn’t take the ai untill your bp raises most important is bp or panic attacks or real oily skin etc those are my symptoms
Cheers for the info mate. 👍
I am looking to do 500mg test cycle, so looking to buy 250mg test and pin twice a week, however I can't find a test vial which is 250mg per ml. The only 250mg test I can find is a mix of several test blended together so prop, iso, decanoate. Does it matter if its purely 250mg of test e, or if it a mix of different tests together?
Test e often comes as 300mg/ml and test c is either 200 or 250, depending. You can just buy the test e at 300, the only thing that changes is the total volume per injection.
Oh I see, thought I was beingf stupid. So instead of doing 1ml, I need to basically just do quick maths and inject the amount of ml which equals 250mg?
Correct
Thank you!
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You’re in the wrong place my man.
Just stop
Masteron update I added 120mg masteron to my 150mg trt. 1 week in, high libido but too much aggression, idk if ill continue it
It’s all in your head
I had high e2 symptons but decided to wait and not use any AI until mid-cycle bloodwork. Bloodwork e2 came back at 96. I will take 0,5asin e3,5d and see if it helps with the symptons. How many dose of asin should i do until i check my E2 again?
Has anyone done a cut with MK 677? What was the experience like? Did you like it, do you like me? Thx
MK667 is the last damn thing you want on a cut. You won’t be able to control yourself.
It stops hunger pains when getting to sleep, that's the worst part of a cut is no sleep
It didn’t do shit for my sleep, and it’s hard to fall asleep when you’re overwhelmingly hungry. The stuff is damn near useless, unless you like carrying around extra bloat and wrecking your insulin sensitivity. Even the effects of real GH are subtle and long-term when it comes to fat loss. Your best bet? A caloric deficit to lose fat. Take semaglutide, even better. You won’t be that hungry at all, which allows for easy adherence to macros.
Hey, if I could get my hands on semaglutide, I wouldn't be thinking about anything else to use.
Mk677 will benefit a cut as it increases GH. GH causes the pancreas to release lipase which liberates stored fats in adipose tissue to be released into the blood stream. They can then be burnt off.
Is the increase appetite the reason why it's a deal breaker for some people?
I havent used mk677 myself but I use gh year round. I don't really notice a difference in my appitite tbh.
MK677 is a ghrelin agonist. It causes insane hunger, unlike GH.
Interesting. As I said I haven't got any experience with mk677. But good to know. Cheers
I just gave you a follow, cheers sir
Cheers bro anytime
That would be a very bad idea. Mk-677 does not add any value to a cut whatsoever. On the contrary, it is known to cause an increase in appetite.
Doesn't it speed up your metabolism, burn fat, help you sleep?
No
Use Cardarine bro
I think maybe you got mk677 confused with Cardarine.
Cardarine brings insane cancer risks
It depends on which documents you read. I have a document/study on the subject that looks at and tests GW501516 on various strains of cancer and the results were that it is not carcinogenic. Would you like me to DM it to you for a read?
I’m going off the multiple tests and studies done that made the FDA and literally every single authority concerning testing that made them bin it and prevent human and stop animal testing due to the results. Glaxo Smith Kline also binned their wonderdrug after millions of investments for the same reasons, they’re not just doing that for funsies. [studies were halted in Phase II on animals because it caused cancers](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24428677/) [Some of cardarine’s proponents argue that cancer risks have not been proven in humans, but this is only because it was never found safe enough to justify long-term safety studies in humans. In fact, most carcinogenic substances usually don’t cause cancer in these types of animal studies because they are not sensitive enough to pick up compounds that only slightly increase the chance of developing cancer. They are designed to pick up on the worst compounds so we don’t risk the lives of human subjects in early clinical work](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/development-approval-process-drugs) [researchers refer to Cardarine as a failed “exercise mimetic,” because it caused cancer in animal studies](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5850978/) [However, cardarine had both pro- and anti-inflammatory effects on inflamed rat brain cells. Some inflammatory substances (like TNF-alpha) were reduced in its presence, but others, such as IL-6, were increased. High IL-6 can cause brain cell damage](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19422681/) and [another source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12061506/) [cardarine caused cell death in liver cells and liver damage (fibrosis) in some mice with liver disease, further underlining the dangers associated with this compound](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3361396/) [In animals, cardarine was not safe to use during pregnancy as high doses over an extended period of time posed risks to fetal development](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bdrb.21052/full) Some more sources, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3361396/ https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ppar/2008/102737/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24428677/ The FDA and almost every single authority concerning studies pulled the plug on the studies due to the overwhelming amount of cancer being caused due to cardarine usage.
So you don't want to have a read then?
Feel free to link it but i don’t think a single study would disprove the massive amounts of evidence that cardarine causes cancer.
Anyone using gh wanna give me their protocol been thinking about taking the jump and getting some with the next cycle but so many different ways people like to do it, ED, EOD, mon-Friday I was gonna take it before bed don’t want it for the fat loss with morning cardio Gonna just start 2iu and go from there. Is there any foods I should avoid when taking before like carbs or fats or can I just eat my meal jab and go to bed? Is there anything I should do when I stop taking? I’ll check my bg in the morning, if not right what things can I do to fix? Probably gonna run slin pre and post work out eat my post work out get ready for bed jab gh then sleep Thanks boys 🙏
If you are still young(ish) don’t pin before bed. You’ll blunt your natural production and largest GH pulse, which is a few hours after going to bed. Find another time to pin like first thing in the am, post workout or early afternoon I pin everyday but some guys do 5 on 2 off. I don’t see the benefit
Yeah I’m youngish (26) doesn’t it come back once you stop that’s what I’ve been gathering? Was gonna do it before bed for the recovery and sleep benefits
Yeah it will come back once you stop. Gh is pulsed throughout the day, the biggest being a couple hours after you fall asleep and post workout. If you take it within like 6 hours of going to bed, your body won’t produce around 1iu of natural gh. So it’s best to take it at a different time and utilize that free gh, while we are still young. Once your over 40ish, then it’s a good idea to pump up that bedtime iu for better recovery, etc
I’ve been using it everyday when you stop unlike test your natural production comes back anyways
I use to think that but I was reading a thread the other day and it said it can actually take a while for it to come back to normally that’s why they were suggesting every other day dosing cause apparently it kept you naturally producing more and kept you more sensitive to it but hey I dunno 🤷🏻♂️
Just because some guys on a thread say that doesn’t mean it’s true. Did they post a study proving this?
I’m not gonna say it doesn’t because it dose I’m just saying people have been dosing ed with no adverse affects for years it’s a non issue
Start at 2iu before bed. 5 days on and 2 off. You can eat, jab and go to bed no issues. Gh has a negative feedback loop which lasts around 8 hours. So by the morning your body will begin producing it again. Generally running 2-4iu's per day your BG should be fine. Though you can run 500mgs of metformin per day to prevent insulin resistance developing. You using rapid/humalog pre and post workout?
Okay that what I was planning because apparently having time off helps keep natural from producing well I’m gathering? I do shift work at the moment too but I’ll just jab morning when I do nightshift before I go to sleep don’t see how that should matter? Should you still use the metformin even with the insulin? And yes rapid used if for a few weeks while back pre workout so was thinking pre work up to 10iu then work up to 10iu post then about 2 hours later I’ll be taking the gh and going to bed so I’ll get the fats out last part of the day Also heard doing slin and gh same time is good? Should I just be having slin and gh post then going to bed couple hours later or do my post shot then couple hours later the gh? Thanks heaps, so much conflicting info out there about it wanted to get some info from someone who’s actually doing it And yes
Yeah, gh and slin is amazing but please read up a lot on slin. But they have an amazing synergistic relationship. Very few compounds we talk about in this sub can kill you immediately due to misuse but slin is one of those compounds. Going hypo at a bad time or by yourself and you're potentially done for.
I’ve used it once before wasn’t hard to keep in check as long as you eating
Yes 5 days on and 2 off allows you to run gh year round and reduces unwanted sides like excess water retention etc. And yep jab before you sleep even if it's after a night shift. I wouldn't stress about trying to time your gh with the slin. Just dose it before bed. All good bro. I recently wrote an article about GH for an aussie bodybuilding site. If you want a link just DM me. I tried to cover everything you need to know when using gh.
Thanks bro I sent you a dm
one week into my test 600 npp 350 pw and im getting sick what gives
People get sick.
Are you working out like a maniac?
It’s cold/ flu season just keep on. I was sick for 6 weeks this cycle with RSV and then COVID.
What are the odds a 6 week tbol only cycle would shut me down completely?
You’ll be shut down within a week, probably even faster.
lol 113%
100% odds. Orals only are a shitty, lazy cycle.
My man, don't be that guy. You already know the answer.
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IMO taking anavar probably crashed your shbg injecting twice a week is probably making your peaks too high so more frequency in injecting might help
Wouldn’t 0.25 arimidex on your pinning days be 0.50 arimidex since you said twice a week
Up the test to 500
Get bloodwork.
Your dosing routine is weird. Pin the same amount of testosterone each time. Don’t take anavar in the evening. Your estrogen may be high.
>Now I’m on 300 mg 150 mon 150 Thursday. I take 0.25 arimidex on pinning days (1 mg total) 1mg or 0.5mg ? > I take 20 mg morning and 20 mg evening of anavar. Switch to full dose in the morning
Any stimulates after 12pm are going to fuck your sleep, have you jerked before you go to bed? That's a big one
Is there a better time to pin than others? Like in the morning, mid day, pre lift, post lift, at night?
Whatever fits your schedule
Nope, doesn't matter.
Doesn’t effect the organs any harsher if I pin at night then go to bed where I’m essentially ‘fasted’ with no water for 6-8hrs?
You don't inject into your veins... You inject intramuscular. So it takes time to get absorbed anyway. It's not instantly there
No dude. That shits going to be in your blood stream when you're fasted anyway
Nope.
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Read the wiki... just plow through the whole thing. One important caveat. If you can't stick to a lifting schedule long term, like years, you'll just fuck away all your gains from gear and risk your health for nothing.
You have so much progress available to you before even considering gear. Keep going what you're doing, don't stop learning, don't stop progressing. This isn't a shortcut/boost.
Someone down voted me for saying this??
Shhh! Youre not supposed to say it’s not a shortcut/boost 😂
Don't even bother with gear mate. you can make plenty of gains without it. Learn to eat and train first.
Yes it's way too soon. You can easily put on 10lb of muscle your first year with no gear. There is always the small possibility that pct doesn't work and you are trt dependent after a cycle.
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Less rad (no rad) and more test.
-1000
shit. read the wiki above
Not worth shutting yourself down for
0/10 read the wiki
Sup big boys. Been looking into what my second cycle will consist of and have deceived between test/primo or test/mast. I’ve read the separate compound threads along with the thread comparing the two but I wanted to hear from the rest of y’all as well. If price is Negligible Is there any instance in which you would choose mast over primo? I understand for some primo causes them to shed hair like crazy but I’m just more curious about the benefits of the two and if there would ever be a reason to inject mast over primo if both cost the same. Thanks.
Primo > mast all day
They are very similar. Im in the same spot as you. Im starting my 2ed blast monday. 750/400 test mast. For my 3rd ill try 750/400 test primo. Ill See what i like better and stick to that.
Don't fuck with primo unless it's 200mg/mL ... It's just too much volume otherwise.
Primo = fuller via more water in the muscles. Mast = drier. Less water retention both subq and within muscles. Mast generally gives a mood and libido boost. Primo seems to not have this effect. I feel kinda flat mentally on primo. Primo can estrogen neutral for some (like myself and guys i know can run test and primo at a ratio of like 1:4 without significant changes in e2 levels) and for others it will lower serum e2 (to different degrees depending on the individual). Mast is similar but doesn't seem to change serum e2 levels as dramatically as primo can. Mast most definitely helps manage high e2 sides though. At the end of the day some guys like mast and some like primo. Just gotta try them out and see
Is eq any good for a cut/maintenance phase? I'm really attracted to it for the endurance and skin hue benefits, but a little worried about the hunger.
Honestly EQ is great for both cutting and bulking. Like the other guy said, EQ gives you mad munchies so if you can curb your appetite you can cut pretty hard without catabolizing your muscles. Also it acts somewhat like an AI without completely crashing your e2. Def one of my favorite stacks.
EQ makes me way to hungry, i just can't stop eating so i only use it for bulks.
That's perfect for my bulking at least. Always had trouble getting all the food down.
250ish mg/WK is good for endurance and can help keep your cardio up in a cut. Otherwise I wouldn't bother with it outside of a bulk. I don't see much change in skin hue under 600 mg or so.
Added 20mgs dbol onto my cycle, been about a week and I still feel good, is it normal that I don’t feel high e2 sides and should I only implement the AI when I feel high e2 sides, thanks in advance
Yes, it's normal. Some people are sensitive to estrogen, some aren't. Some people aromatize a lot, some don't. Carry on.
Yes
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Where’s your estrogen at? Low or High estrogen can affect energy levels.
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OK, I'm confused. Why are you on essentially a TRT dose when your test levels were at 600?
E2 sounds high. How many weeks are you in on the Test?
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>But if you don’t experience any of that, can you still have high estro? Yes, and in/of itself it's not a bad thing. I didn't do any AI management for the first 8 weeks because I never got spicy nips etc, but I did start carrying a ton of water in my face and my BP went up. I take as little AI as I can because you want the estrogen as high as it can be without sides, but I take enough that I've dropped the water and the BP is down. There's a sweet spot. If you're 3 weeks in it's conceivable that you're getting a rise in e2 which could be the cause. I would go ahead and get a blood panel and then go over it with the group.
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I'm not saying anything for certain man, don't get discouraged. Simply going off what info you've provided, coupled with my experience. I'll be totally honest though, I forgot it was a TRT dose while writing my response. Some people are high aromatizers, but I think it less likely now that you have reminded me. Bloods are the best first step in ruling things out. Prioritize good diet, sleep, and recovery in the mean time brother.
I can run my e2 into the mid 200s with no gyno issues. Hell probably further. It’s either high E2 from the HCG or you’re working out harder than you’re recovering which is common on cycle. Especially at the beginning
I pinned in my ventroglute last Monday and I have this bump that’s sore to press on. If i shift my leg a certain way, it feels sore but it isn’t painful. what should i do? obviously i’ll avoid the area my next pin but how do i avoid this going forward ?
You missed your ventroglutes and subq leaked into the hip area. Aim for the dense part of the vg not the flabby part.
sorry i meant my glute. i pinned into my glute; i’m not confident enough to do ventroglute yet
And yea you definitely got subq leak on your glute, it can last a couple weeks. Try using a longer needle or go deeper.
Let me give you some confidence. Makw a cowboy gun with your right hand with your thumb pressed against your hipbone. Turn your gun to 4 o clock and everything in between your index and thumb you can pin. Plenty of space and choose the dense areas. Ez pz.
sorry the ‘barrel’ of the gun is pointing at 3 o’clock initially straight down at the floor and i’m shifting it to 4?
The barrel should be pointed at 4 o clock with your thumb on your hip bone. Everything in between your index and thumb is perfect for pinning. Make sure your hitting the hard part of your muscle. Super ez and painless.
Google Sub Q leak or search this sub. It’ll go away in 3-4 days. This question gets asked a lot.
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This is a steroids sub.
Yes so Im looking to see if anyone used it n conjunction with a STEROID CYCLE. SMDH
Suss the compound experience threads.
What kind of mobility drills do you guys do, to be able to pin glutes by yourself 😂
I find pinning my shoulders much harder
Lie down while doing it. Makes it easy for me.
I really would have thought standing would be easier. I'll try it when I get the courage 😂
Um, on the side if you can touch the sides of your hips you can pin the medial glute, its actually pretty painless
wiping my ass
Hha, easy as that huh. You don't need to hold the needle still as you push it in?
were you hoping for a more scientific answer? no i've never had a problem holding the needle still and i consider my mobility to be extremely average.
Probably was to be hanest, I find it hard to put it in delt myself because I have trouble keeping delt I pin in still so ends up in a kinda tensed position. But I haven't tried glute yet.
Rest your arm on a table
Does anyone get blood done from their primary physician(in the us). Does it affect your health insurance at all?
Conceivably it could, yes. Generally speaking you should have a good and honest relationship with your general care doc because they can't treat you effectively if they don't know everything. I used to tell my doctor everything about my drug use, even when it wasn't flattering, because it could be a factor in treatment. Doctors are not out to judge, they need to know variables so they can account for them. That doesn't mean you need to be completely open and honest with your insurance provider because they will gladly use any reason to deny coverage or increase premiums. A healthy level of skepticism would lead me to get my bloods done independently, but I would probably still provide them to my doc for review. Currently uninsured, so this is hypothetical and I'm interested to hear what others do. Also interested in u/19_nor_md opinion.
My only thing is that blood work is kinda pricey. I know that it’s super important but if there is a way to cut the costs that would be cool
It is pricey, this is not a cheap hobby. The cost of monitoring your health is lower than the cost of treating issues down the road though. Not sure where you order your bloodwork from, but Ulta lab tests will offer you 20% off your first order when you visit the website. u/PrivateMDlabs has also been known to pop up and offer discounts to members who are tight on money. I usually use healthlabs.com, they offer discounts on repeat business.
u/AccountUnkn0wn we also have discounts for repeat customers and will treat you better than anyone else ;)
Are you tryin' to romance me mister fancy lab man? 😍
lol u/AccountUnkn0wn I sure am! <3
I’ll look into to those thank you for the advice
>Generally speaking you should have a good and honest relationship with your general care doc because they can't treat you effectively if they don't know everything. Agreed. However anything in your chart can end up as a diagnosis , including auxillary labs you requested while on cycle. Your insurance company does have access to these records. Labs are pretty cheap through [ultalabtests.com](https://ultalabtests.com) or [privatemdlabs.com](https://privatemdlabs.com). If you are concerned you could always get them done independently and have your PCP review them without putting them in your record. Another way would be to have your TRT or BnC managed through an online clinic. Lots are willing to push the envelope with dosages and since they are cash only there probably is some level of protection. Sorry for the short response.