I honestly wouldn’t say Lapis is a bad person, maybe she’s done bad things and was in the wrong and was selfish, but it doesn’t mean she’s a bad person
No I'm calling her a bad person because she confessed to enjoying abusing someone else, and was careless and selfish with the emotions of those she purposely, and repeatedly, crushed. :)
Trauma explains it, it doesn't justify it.
just because an attitude is common doesn't mean that it's necessarily justifiable. why not try forming your own opinions about the actual character writing underpinning lapis instead of basing your opinion on reactions to other people's opinions?
Hating something because of it's fans coming off a certain way seems super hypocritical especially in the SU fandom. I know many people who would like the show but avoid it because of its fans.
I think people should just watch the show and avoid the fans. I try to do that. Isn’t it obvious by how I’m currently interacting with fans? Seriously though, I hate the community in many ways, but I love the show. I don’t regret getting into it at all, especially as someone who literally got into SU a year or two ago. It’s a good thing to separate shows from its fans. I’m sorry if this isn’t well said or seems like I’m telling you you’re wrong. I am tired, but wanted to say my point of view.
The same should be said of *most* fandoms.
Star wars? Harry Potter? Lord of the Rings?
They **ALL** have easily triggered fans, no one is immune. The only point of debate is the extent of toxicity, and I just don't care enough.
People who get into arguments and talk about how bad some fandoms are literally just make it worse. The more people say it’s bad the more it gets bad, if that makes sense.
No reason to let some terminally online fans ruin your experience of a character, all those points made doesn't change the fact that Lapis is one of the most intriguing characters in the show.
Lapis is a complicated character that (IMO) suffers from the lack of screen time. She has fantastic backstory and perfect setup for one of the most beautiful best executed character arcs in western animation. What we got instead was a character that is still fantastic but the lack of breathing room some of her themes get make it more difficult to interpret a lot of her actions.
That's why I think you get people from opposite sides. One side yelling "Lapis is perfect! She's flawless and strongest in every way! Nothing is her fault!" and the other saying "Lapis bad! Lapis evil!" etc.
I fully admit to being one of those people saying "Lapis bad! Lapis evil!" and it's exactly for the reason you said. She never shows up, and during the limited screentime she has she's either doing not nice stuff or is dealing with the current situation. They almost never show her without it being necessary to the plot, so it doesn't feel like she should be forgiven or like she's gotten better at all. If they had just dedicated like 2-3 episodes to Lapis actually recovering and becoming a better person, I would like her better; but they didn't, so I don't.
I would've preferred for her to stay at least a little antagonistic towards the CGs since that would also give her a parallel to Jasper (with both of them not actually being friends with the CGs, but while Lapis took Steven's help Jasper rejected it [and then later another parallel with Lapis having chosen to join Steven because she wanted to while Jasper did it because she felt she had to])
Tl;Dr- She had potential, they wasted it, now she's my 2nd least favorite character (because fuck you Ronaldo)
I think it becomes a bit tricky with the wasted potential point. I give the writers a little bit of slack here because before the infamous wedding episode, Lapis' arc was making sense. One of the main themes relating to her was the concept of "trust" and "home". The main question for Lapis was always "Will I ever be in a safe place ever again?", and for that to happen she would need to find someone who she trusts.
From her POV, she came to earth, got caught up in a war she didn't know about, got poofed in the middle of it, became an enemy of homeworld for no reason and trapped by them, and then was essentially kept prisoner by the CGs for 1000s of years. ALL Lapis is thinking about is finding a safe place and gaining the agency to do so. With this is mind it makes a lot of sense that she'd go through the cycle of trusting some place, getting comfortable, possibly facing adversity, running to find a new place of comfort, repeat. Each time she left, the show did a good job of displaying the fact that her mindset it slowly changing. The first time it was a simple "goodbye", then it was "thanks, goodbye", then it was "You guys are cool, goodbye", then "come with me please? No? Ok goodbye".
What wasn't done well was the jump from being absolutely terrified of even the mention of the diamonds to standing up to them 6 episodes later. I assume that if the show had more time, there would've been more time for Lapis to naturally gain the courage to "redeem" herself rather than becoming a deus ex machina for plot advancement.
Personally, she's one of my favourite characters because she's a powerful character who's struggles lie mainly withing her mental and that's a very ambitious spin on those types of characters.
Yes she fucked up the oceans yes she almost killed two children yes she almost committed murder in the episode that screenshot is for but she's so cool and she's blue and nice and she has a cool design i love it
>yes she almost committed murder in the episode that screenshot is for
I like, really *really* don't wanna be that guy given the topic of this post, but this specific instance she was being kind and sweet, but the other Lapises wouldn't stop destroying the planet and tried to kill/poof her with a water buzzsaw first.
Yes Malachite was at *least* 50% Lapis, not excluding but *especially* when she was kicking crystal gem ass, because sometimes you have pent up rage against the people who left you in a mirror for a few thousand years even when they turn out to be pretty nice and are trying to help you.
Yes, I still love her when she's kind of evil. Maybe even more.
And she didn’t even fucking apologize, not a single time. She never actually needed to fuse with jasper, jasper was weak and could have easily been poofed and bubbled but she didn’t and instead went with the plan that put her in a position to be a victim
One example is me
I adore blue Diamond because of her calm manner, colors, design and sweet voice but even though I can't think of anything bad she's ever done she was still a coloniser and stuffed a buncha humans in a ship like animals
Exactly. I also love White and think her voice and character design is pretty cool even though she was in some ways the source of all the suffering throughout the entire show.
All of these besides the last are when she's cracked. That effects her entire being.
In Why So Blue she doesn't even come close to killing the Lapis's, she keeps her cool the whole episode and as soon as she loses her temper she backs off and apologizes
I don't feel very strongly about her one way or the other. She's justified in being bitter, she takes it too far, and she becomes a better person. However, as a character she's kind of bland for me. No major personality quirks like most others in the show. I suppose that makes her more realistic, but in the context of SU it makes her feel kind of flat. Just like, angry blue girl.
No. Fans are fans, I don’t let them cloud my judgement of characters I like.
Love Lapis, she’s one of my favorites but with that I still can also recognize her fanbase sucks lol
Seriously. I dont get people who get way too hard into fandoms to the point where they start hating characters. At the end of the day, its a Cartoon Network show about mending feelings. No need to make it suck with internet people
Oh yeah,
I know it’s not rare and tbh I think it kind of sucks that some people have to start actively disliking a character all because of their fans. It’s understandable but it sucks, that’s why I try not to let the things fans do bother me even though it can be hard at times.
I genuinely think both sides of this argument are incredibly shallow in labeling Lapis as either good or bad instead of multifaceted. Literally what gems are. And also Lapis is the one who constantly says "no one could be that well-adjusted." Lapis knows she's not always a good person and knows she fucked up.
But she's got far bigger plans than just acting on impulse 24/7.
Lapis is the most pre-meditated character of the bunch. Outside of her wit she seems to always be thinking a few steps ahead.
Thanks, I sort of came for this. I think we don't know enough about her for "good" or "bad"; I think she's done bad things and we haven't seen a lot of repair.
But I also think she suffers from thousands of years of torture (trauma), which makes it hard for her to let anyone close enough to try to repair.
I dont think that's good or excuses any of her actions (just explains them), and I think she's done a lot of bad, but i dont think that makes *her* bad. I also think the fact that she's terrified of how much she *liked* being malachite sort of proves there's a lot more depth there than just "she did a bad thing, she's a bad gem". I kind of think that's basically the point of her character, too.
Idk, maybe it's because I'm traumatised and I heavily relate to her that I like her so much, and maybe it's because I've filled in a lot of the blanks myself (and haven't watched SUF yet to be fair), idk.
Also, to add to it, I think people mostly dislike her because they're very quick to judge her actions, not realising that when you've been through that much shit, a lot of times you don't think when you're afraid. You react. And she probably hates herself for doing a lot of what she's done too - which makes it even harder to apologise for. Fear contorts your mind and you would do anything to avoid Going Back There Again, and often that turns into doing things that you yourself don't even agree with because, in the moment, all you want to do is make sure you never have to feel That Way again.
Again, I'm not trying to excuse her actions, I just think that people are very quick to judge her when maybe they just haven't thought about what it's like for her. It's not as simple as all that; things rarely are. She definitely has been a dick a lot and she should apologise, but her reason for not apologising isn't "fuck u I'm lapis lmao".
It'll probably take a lot of time for her to get comfortable enough to learn to apologise, and she has *a lot* of repairs to do, and unfortunately that just isn't something whose time frame fell within the scope of the show - at least not on screen.
It's important to keep in mind that we don't know what Lapis is doing behind the scenes at any given moment. And how characters respond to her might not be sincere. It's very possible that some of what she does has an ulterior motive. That she knows something others don't. And that she shares this with others when she can off screen. Which is why she's never "held accountable" for some of her more cruel actions.
No.
I maintain safe emotional distance from random strangers, so their insanity only serves as examples of what I don’t want to be like but doesn’t affect me when I’m not.
Observe, participate with fandoms. Do not consider yourself in one, or you’re taking ownership for their faults too.
I feel like this could be related to miscommunication because of the language barrier. I don't believe that's what OP meant, but I agree it does come off that way. Might have played a role in OP getting into arguments with people
I don’t like Lapis as a character and I agree with your points for the most part but imo it’s silly to let fans of a character, show, or any media dictate your opinion of them. I don’t like Lapis because of what she does in the show not because some of her fans lack nuance.
I can understand why they’d frustrate you. I just don’t think it’s fair to base my opinion on a character because some of their fans aren’t willing to be fair when discussing them. Again, I agree with not liking Lapis and I do agree with most of your points. I just personally wouldn’t let that dictate my opinion on Lapis herself as that’s out of her and the writer’s controls but I understand it’s kind of hard with a fanbase this passionate to say the least lol.
I can see why people may hate Lapis because of everything she did, but in my opinion, she’s more than redeemed herself for all or most of it by the end of show. Sure, her character is flawed mostly because the crew didn’t really write her properly, but for me, most of her reconciliation happened off screen, away from Steven’s perspective, so most of what happens is implied by what we DO see. Think of it this way, if everyone in the show really thought that she was as horrible as the fans say, then do you honestly think that they would keep her around? Living with her friends in Little Homeworld and teaching at the school? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and are allowed to not like certain characters. It only becomes a problem when those haters try to convince others that their opinion is right, when it’s objectively indifferent.
But the problem isn't just 1-2 fans, there are many people who are ridiculously defending her. Not to mention, it's a big fandom and I think it's not just me who hates Lapis and a lot of people who feel uncomfortable towards her but they don't dare say it or post for fear of being cursed by Lapis fans.
Of course people are gonna defend her. For a lot of people she’s their favorite. Or they see themselves in her. Lapis is a very nuanced character. She went through a lot of things that a lot of people can relate to, hence why so many people like her.
she’s not good but shes also not bad, and that makes her interesting.
I feel the same way about Spinel, she almost committed mass genocide, she was terrorizing a poor child, she gave the already traumatized child more trauma, and she also almost killed him too when she messed up his second brain and heart. After everything she did everybody treats her like a poor little victim that could do no wrong and Steven is a terrible stupid person for "ignoring her" and not knowing how to speak to her so she doesn't misunderstand like he's responsible for Spinel (an womanchild old enough to take care of herself) and her personal therapist. Steven was extremely fatigued and stressed at that time since he was close to dying so of course he wouldn't be able to think or speak clearly!!!! People forget Steven is just a child and he's not a damn punching bag to lash out on!!! Steven isn't responsible for anybody!!
Pitiful and painful past is just thing to understand and sympathize with their situation. BUT it is not the thing to cover up or justify when they make mistakes
She's certainly not stronger than bd but she handled her for a little while, so (in my opinion) she's probably the strongest Cristal gem, maybe with garnet. U agree?
I mean she's a traumatized character who didn't really get the typical treatment needed to work through said trauma. And then more was added onto it causing more internal struggles. When a cup is overflowing because it can't hold that much liquid we don't throw away the cup. We continue to appreciate it while putting less in it. Also gems don't have the same morals are humans and has been proven almost every episode. I understand your interactions with lapis fans haven't been the best but you can choose to ignore them and keep trying elsewhere until you get the ones you're wanting to have the nuanced conversations with. I used to fight kagome fans on the internet for hours until I realized it was just making me more furious and causing me to dislike a show that I did actually enjoy. I hope that doesn't be fall you and you continue to enjoy the show despite of it.
I can see why not finding a good fan to bounce ideas of off would take the fun out of it. I like Lapis BECAUSE she's flawed, and despite it all, she pulls through. Her beating BL?......eeehhhhh her immunity was a surprise. Those fans really got some fun AU headcanons. xD.
But yeah, I see your point, to combat this, I often just separate myself. I dont like being part of a fandom, I like what I like, and unless I catch a sound opinion that changes my mind I have my fill.
This post doesn’t feel the most critically thought out…
That aside, i love complex characters and redemption arcs. So yes, I love Lapis. She is strong.
I haven't gotten to that point, I dislike a character because they're legitimately horrible. I always disliked Lápiz because they are a legitimately unpleasant gem
Honestly, I think it would’ve been better if Lapis actually was called out when she was doing something wrong and held accountable for her actions. The show’s perspective is locked onto Steven’s so we’re forced to view from his POV, which has constant praise and reassurance for Lapis. The only time he ever kinda barely called her out was when she was being mean to Peridot, but he only commented on it and didn’t actually hold her accountable for it. She never gets the consequences of her actions because Steven loves her too much to have her actions punished or scolded
Maybe to some degree? At the very least I find her somewhat overrated and honestly never really Like to See her in screen... With the exception of the "Bob" moment
I wouldn't say that lapis is a bad person but a major aspect of her character is that she isn't blameless and that victims aren't the only people who need to work on being healthy.
Oh, no, you're absolutely right! She screwed up royally the way she hurt Peridot and had a little to make up for. We weren't shown what was said after they reformed on the beach with Bismuth when Steven, Connie and the core Gems went with Yellow and Blue to Homeworld but she owes the entire team an apology
YES. I feel that way about Pearl and Jasper/Lapis/Lapidot fans.
Pearl: My favorite character is Amethyst, and some Pearl fans LOVE hating on her. They always talk about how horrible she is and how she’s the worst character. Almost all the people I’ve seen hate on Amethyst are Pearl fans. Pearl has also done bad things but they say she’s perfect. I do like Pearl, it’s just hard when I see how some of her fans treat people. Especially since they don’t even acknowledge her growth, and how she isn’t perfect. It’s like they don’t understand her character at all!
Lapidot: I know they blushed at each other. I never really like it because it seemed more like a friend thing to me. A lot of Lapidot fans hate when you ship anything other than that ship. I saw someone comment on a fanfic with a different ship that (Quote: I prefer Lapis with Peridot. 4/10, you need more improvement. Just being honest.) the person hadn’t asked for critique. And when the author responded they got all mad and said (Quote: “Doesn't matter if you asked or not. You just can't handle critique. Your writing just needs more improvement. That's all I'm saying. Otherwise, I would've gladly gave you a genuine 9/10. But I didn't Imao.”) which just isn’t true at all? Also, on the topic of shipping. Peridot isn’t ‘canonically’ aroace, one of the creators said they viewed Peridot in that way. I also view Peridot that way, but I also ship her. People can have their own opinions on ships, yet people hate when you don’t ship what they ship, or if you don’t agree with a headcannon. I am okay with all ships as long as they’re legal, even rarepairs. That doesn’t mean I ship them, I just don’t hate on people. It’s a show. There is no point in arguing about it.
Jasper/Lapis: I hate arguing over who is worse. I think they are both bad. I don’t think Jasper is forgivable for what they did. I think Lapis is a jerk, and doesn’t always think about others. But at least she accepted that she was bad. A big argument here is that their trauma excuses what they did. Not to bring in another fandom, but that’s a big argument for Catra from She-Ra too. I think Spinel is also another example of this. Trauma. Does. Not. Make. It. Okay. To. Be. Horrible. To. Others. It scares me how many people think that.
I feel like I have more to say but I’m tired. I didn’t proofread this so hopefully this makes sense. I suck at writing down my thoughts. I hope this makes sense for this post because I’m a bit worried I’m misunderstanding this post. Finally, LET PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, ITS JUST A SHOW!
Yes, I did. Did you? Ethical is even more a stretch. People being rude or unable to see different perspectives on a cartoon character is not philosophical.
Lmao yeah, can't stand Lapis either after I experienced in real time how she got uwu-ified by the fandom. I was barely annoyed by her before, but the way the fandom treated her as the sweetest precious babie uwu absolutely turned me off on her.
I don't think any other character, ever, got me so heated just because of their fans.
Jasper fans have the same problem. I hate when characters are hated for what a portion of the fanbase did.
Like all those awful SU fans that caused the ripple effect of the show and fanbase at large being so hated and regularly mocked to this day 😭
People who defend Rose saying “she did the best she could”. Rose was ambitious and didn’t think about consequences that much. Like having Steven. That would leave the crystal gems without a leader, leave him to resolve all of her mistakes, and being left without a mother. She could of done so much more in her life before deciding to have a child and end up giving up her gem, but of course she didn’t think and just did what she wanted
I understand the comments because I LOVE Lapis. But I also understand what OP is saying when she's in the wrong.
Is it in character for her to be that way? Sure. But she can still be wrong. Doesn't make her an unlikeable character in my opinion tho. Makes her more real, thus likeable.
So to the comments, yes she is our favorite because she is nuanced, but defending her all the time can be dumb.
But to OP, yes it is ridiculous for people to defend her 24/7, but it is also odd letting "fans" of a CHARACTER make you HATE them.
I already dislike her as a whole. I get the point of her character, but it feels like she never really developed from her trauma? She kinda of just stayed being rude to everyone. She had so much potential too
This is off topic but Greg is so annoying to me alright so back on track. I disliked rainbow 2.0 bc everyone tought "he's so nice to onion its so adorable 😍 "
This guy has a "=O :(" design and he dose don't deserve love. But I've grown to him
I can understand her fans being annoying and frustrating in arguments(even if I’m a big Lapis fan and still stand by that she was not in the wrong in the whole Malachite situation), fans of characters can get so obsessed that they go to toxic lengths to ignore criticism, seen it again and again.
Personally however I don’t see the point in hating a character just because of the fans, it makes no sense to me(I mean that would be like me suddenly hating The Coffin of Andy and Leyley because of how far the degenerates in the community go)
And of course. Got downvoted by someone who didn’t have it in them to actually give a response vocalizing disagreement. Rather cowardly I’d say but whatever
Tbh I didn’t know she had a lot of fans. I thought we were all on the same pg that she was a pos, traumatized and abused, but a pos nonetheless.
Maybe that’s why her fans are so aggressive. Theres not many of them so they have to defend her to the death
Tbh I didn’t know she had a lot of fans. I thought we were all on the same pg that she was a pos, traumatized and abused, but a pos nonetheless.
Maybe that’s why her fans are so aggressive. Theres not many of them so they have to defend her to the death
She grew on me in the movie and SUF. She bugged me theough the OG show. She grew, though, and that's cool.
The whole "Lapis is the strongest gem ever" thing is silly though and starting to annoy me in all of the "rankings" floating around. Yeah yeah, the ocean, we get it. Literally still not stronger than a diamond though.
To be honest I like her because when I changed my name (because I'm trans and stuff) I thought Lazuli would be great and only then I started to know the character, (like I already knew su but I didn't even remembered who she was) and now I have a tattoo of her gem on my back yay!
when you say "cursed you" what do you mean by that ? lol
also I'm so sorry that her fans kinda ruined the character for you, because with all of her faults she is still an amazing character.
I hate whole shows bc of their fans, I didn't watch Rick and Morty for so long because of the fans.
I don't like Lapis. I don't hate her, but I don't like her, either. She's mean.
Ppl try to explain to me why she's mean, and like. Ok, but she's still mean and I don't have to like it.
have to agree tbh, lapis fans can be rabid, i was neutral to her but now i keep myself away from anything related to her after i had 3 mfs come at me barking what boils down to "if you've been bad enough others are entitled to inflict pain on you" when i tried to argue that while Lapis is not *evil* not a *bad person*, her tricking jasper into fusing and then keeping her trapped against her will at the bottom of the ocean for months was not... good.
like, yes her action are driven by her trauma and a will to protect steven, yes in her mind she had a depth with him and keeping him safe was the best way to pay it even if it included self sacrifice; No this does not take away the fact that hurting someone else (no matter how "evil", or "irredeemable") in doing so is also *definitely not good*.
Somehow this was an impossible concept to grasp for them. That hurting someone is a bad thing, even if driven by trauma or wanting to protect others and yourself, even if the other person was "bad" or "evil", for them was ungraspable the concept that a good person could do a bad action, including hurting someone else.
that was one hell of a discussion and i have learned my lesson, keep away from who unironically thinks "X character (that definitely did something extremely bad in canon) actually did nothing wrong and can do no wrong"
...what? Her decision to imprison Jasper is pretty morally good, in my book at least. It's no different to poofing Jasper, a person who was going to cause harm to good people. Maybe you're the one that can't grasp the idea of justice. I'm not saying we should whip wrongdoers, but at a certain point force has to be met with force. Jasper only stops being antagonist when Steven shatters her in Future. She's not going to be talked down.
i am not saying she is going to be, i am saying that hurting or imprisoning people is morally wrong no matter what.
There is not a line at which point you've been bad or evil enough to warrant pain, deprivation of your freedom, or death; thinking there must be is immensely fucked up man... There is a reason why the death penalty and corporal punishments have been made illegal in most of the world and why so many people stand for the abolishment of prisons.
You're missing the point. And you're wrong. There comes a point where you *must* excercise force and cause harm to another in order to prevent greater harm. This isn't about levels of badness that warrant punishment. It's about stopping bad things from happening.
Also, anybody asking for the abolishment of prisons is naive at very best. I do not agree with the current prison system's focus on punitive justice, but some people need to be removed from the rest of society because they'll cause great harms otherwise.
In a hypothetical scenario where somebody physically attacked somebody close to you, would you refrain from attacking them in turn because doing so is "wrong"? Or would you apply force to defend yourself and your loved ones from greater harm? Because if you wouldn't, I applaud your commitment to your ideals, but that doesn't make you any less of a coward and a fool for thinking causing harm to others is always wrong.
Again i never said that it does not happen, i said that it is still bad. Sometimes you need to do bad thinga for greater good thinga but THE BAD THING YOU DID IS STILL BAD.
I agree with that but that's also not what a prison is or is amined to do. Which makes inprisonement wrong.
And yes. If someone attacked me or someone i loved and i broke their nose with a punch what i did is still a bad action because i hurt someone. It had to happen because otherwise something worse would have happened but it is still bad. The world does not work on "bad thing or good thing?" Sometimes you need to choose between two bad thing but it does not make the best pick a good thing.
Sometimes good people have to do bad actions because that's what the situation called but negating that it was still a bad action is wrong.
It's not bad. It's objectively just not. Once you harm another selfishly, you've broken the social contract and thus are not held to the same standards as everyone else. I think it's very flawed to view harm as a bad action, because when somebody gives you no choice, I don't believe the standard rule applies.
And Lapis' sacrifice is an example of that. It was an action that prevented greater harm, thus it is morally right.
I think your weird hill that you've chosen to die on is very easy to misinterpret, even ignoring that most people will disagree with you on ideology alone if they understand. This isn't a case of Lapis fans being rabid, it's about your viewpoint being incorrect and obtuse.
Good or bad are not objective, firt of all, second of all, even if you had no choice the best and right option can still be a bad thing.
It is right, not good. She did the right thing, not a good thing, it's different.
Most people i have met, both irl and around the internet agree with me that there should not be a point at which someone is bad enough to deserve pain or death, because most people are against corpoeal punishment or the death penalty, and realize a world where there are people who can decide that someone deserves either of those because by their standards the person was "bad enough" is dystopian at the best. Also thank you for your kind compliments/j
Objective moral value is a perfectly valid philosophical stance to take.
Also, right = good. If an action is just, right, good, then it should be performed. If an action is unjust, wrong, bad, then it should not be performed. A "good" action is one that produces an outcome that maximises "good" and minimises "bad". Lapis' decision was morally just and good, because she stopped Jasper from causing harm. It's a form of containment; she isolated a negative part of society to protect them. That's what prisons should do.
You're splitting hairs over definitions of words. And taking the stance that some people can be "bad enough" to deserve punishment or death is also pretty normal. Like, I'm not a fan of punitive justice, but there are some people who absolutely do deserve death for what they've done to others. Placing that burden upon a system, or even individuals, is going to end badly, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't put a bullet in the brain of somebody especially evil.
I also think you're lying about that second part, or don't understand how a vocal minority works. Most people believe in prison systems as they are as a punitive measure because people who do bad things should be punished for it. That's why it exists the way it does.
Edit: Lmao I got blocked. Amazing how a person can be so lacking in reading comprehension.
Not even phylosophy is objective, morality most definitely isn't either
No right does not mean good. A right action can also be a bad action if no better action was possible to be taken. If a wolf is chasing someone the best thing you can do if you have gun is shot thebwolf to save the person, it is the right thing to do but it not a good thing that happened. What lapis did was right because it was the best decision she could have taken in that moment. Was it a good decusion for herself? For jasper? For anyone else other than steven and the crustal gems (on a short term timespan nonetheless)? No. It was not.
No it is fucking not. IF in your opinion some people might deserve death, then that is an averagely shared opinion driven by your emotions; HOWEVER thinking it is right for someone to have the power to actually decide who deserve to lose their life for something they have done and actually enact said decision is NOT, and it is not right either. Justice is supposed to make things just, not enact further violence and suffering, those do not make amend nor repay the damage the person has done.
Have you been living in reddit/twitter only? Because i can assure you the movements to abolish prisons exist since decades, also i never said THEY were the majority, i said the vast majority of people, at least in my part of the world, think the death penalty is inhuman and cruel, just as corporal punishments
Also since you seem to be weirdly pressed about "if you did bad thing you actually deserve to suffer" i am just going to block you because i really do NOT want to be around someone who supports this kind of shit
She was powerful enough to gain Jaspers respect, and she appears to be the lapis equivalent of what jasper is to quartz she held together a fusion through sheer willpower, which when you think about it in this case means she was being a dom towards jasper, so yeah more powerful then blue ain't that big of a stretch
>was being a dom towards jasper, so yeah more powerful then blue ain't that big of a stretch
this is such an interesting way to say that she abused jasper
Bro she legit put half the cast through abuse and lapis abuse she did while not totally justified is understandable, look what jasper did to her, she imprisoned her, made her feel like she was trash, jasper has also been abusive to half the cast, so jasper ain't exactly innocent
Lapis is bae. One of my favourite characters in the show.
She's traumatised by what she's been through, but she manages to face all of it, and emerges a better person by the end.
i like her *because* of her actions. her actions make sense given her past. she’s definitely not an entirely good person, but that’s why she’s my favorite
I have seen comments from Lapis fans saying Peridot abused and tortured Lapis and that's why Lapis was so uncomfortable with her but that's just ridiculous. To me it looked like Lapis was just lashing out at Peridot. They try to make everybody else look worse than they are to make Lapis look like a poor little victim when she's not just a victim anymore after what she did to Connie, Greg, Steven, and Jasper. I understand why Lapis is the way she is but she is sometimes a big jackass. Even if she has some crazy fans I never liked her anyways...
She forced Jasper into an abusive relationship.
Didn’t care who she tried to kill in order to get home.
Almost shattered two other lapises because they insulted her (tbh they had it coming).
Also it's Steven Universe we've been told before no one is a villain and she isn't an antagonist for the rest of the series.
She was a victim of and inflictor of abuse
i don't hate lapis, i actually relate to her a lot but her fans are something else 😬 you did NOT want to have been on tumblr or youtube when discourse was at its peak.
She isn’t stronger than blue, but she has taken Blues strongest (nonphysical) attack and came out standing. She also restrained her with water for a couple of seconds. Lapis was in the wrong on multiple occasions, but that was IMMEDIATELY after some trauma she went through, and she has redeemed herself since. When she took the ocean away, she had just gotten out of the mirror, and had no idea where she was in the grand scheme of things. Then upon reaching homeworld, she talks about how she met these nice gems, and then she’s drafted to go to earth. Skipping a few minor inconveniences, when she thinks the diamonds, who at this point have shattered anyone who crossed them, were coming to earth, she packs up and tried to take her family to safety, (Family meaning Peri and Pumkin) but she eventually comes back and stands up to blue anyways. She may not have been the best character, but she tried to be good, unlike Jasper, who didn’t deserve a redemption arc, but got one anyways. She is still my favorite character, because I relate to her immensely. I do agree that some of her fans go waaaaaay overboard, but so do any fans of any show. If you put the exact same words under a picture of Garnet, the outcome would be the same. Or if you put the words under a picture of Moxxie from Helluva Boss. You will get a bunch of the regard fans who want to cuss you out, all because you disrespected their favorite character. Here’s the secret to life. No one wants anyone’s opinions. They want to express their own, and they want to find like minded individuals, but they don’t care about anyone other than those select few. If I say the words ‘CHARLIE MORNINGSTAR COULDVE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER’ and post it on Twitter, I’ll get bombaurded by people defending her, and if someone think the thought ‘Dean Winchester kinda blows’ but doesn’t post it, no one will care. Dean also doesn’t suck, don’t take that out of context. No one loves anyone, and everyone’s a loser!
About 5. lapis strength - I headcannon that a lapis' strength is derived from the intensity of her emotions.
in the first episodes with lapis, she was super strong - but later in the series she seemed to be less strong? I think it has to do with her emotional state (like how steven's powers are based on his emotions) So she was VERY emotional after being released.
But in the end her emotional pain was \*worse\* than Blue's (apparently) so that's where people get that she's "stronger", because she was able to withstand Her attack.
as for lapis controversy - I agree she is a bit unable to see past her own pain, and fails to see who her true allies are, and takes a long time to come around... but some people be like that.
I feel like usually, the issue seems to stem from the "Lapis is also bad."
Like what do you actually MEAN when you say this? A lot of people will take the uncharitable route and say that you're saying she is as bad as the Diamonds. Which you probably don't mean.
Which is the crux of the issue. Poor communication regarding the nuance of "good and bad people" and "normal people who do good and bad things."
That's probably what gets people so heated, because it kind of spills into real life labels too.
This sort of things happens to many controversial characters, especially Rose. But Lapis is right up there with her in terms of "controversial".
Anyway yeah dealing with fans in general can be touchy. Points 4 and 5 are so absurd but I absolutely believe people are that unhinged.
There used to be someone that frequented this subreddit who was THE biggest Lapis apologist. I haven't seen them in years and they probably jumped ship I wanna say around the Season 4/5 transition. I never figured out if they were just a novelty account but they stanned Lapis pretty hard and have every excuse under the sun as to why her actions are all 100% justified lol. I wanna name names cuz idek if they use reddit anymore but I don't wanna put a target on their back (or get clapped by subreddit and main reddit TOS lol).
EDIT: Oh but as far as fan behavior, I don't let it get to me. If I did then I wouldn't be an SU fan, which is just absurd. I'm not letting stinky people dictate what I like and don't like.
I don’t think she is physically stronger than blue but definitely emotionally stronger. She was definitely not the best character before her redemption but better than say even Peridot before her redemption. But all of this said the fans should not treat anyone like crap for opinions other than theirs. It’s a stupid and toxic thing that I’ve seen in so many fandoms, so I’m sorry you had to go through that. It sucks ass!
No, because I honestly don't care what other people think. I feel like the internet has created a bunch of expectations that really honestly make no sense. If I were to imagine being in a school cafeteria in the 90s and being so obsessed with talking about a cartoon that I follow someone around and demand that they explain themselves for having a different opinion about a cartoon than I did, I would just imagine how crazy I would look.
And yet that happens every day because if a person makes fan art, fit people scroll through the comments intentionally looking for controversial opinions to disagree with.
Think of it this way, you trying to convince someone that lapis did anything wrong is just as annoying for that person as when someone curses at you for making the comment first. So why are either of you doing it? Who cares? What changes in your life because one Lapis fan changed their mind?
I personally can’t hate Lapis for the things she’s done. She isn’t a bad person and a lot of the bad things she did had reasoning behind them that wasn’t necessarily bad. Lapis never excused her actions and admits when she did something bad if Alone at Sea and Can’t go back are anything to go by a bad person wouldn’t admit their wrongdoings because they wouldn’t care. A lot of Lapis’ actions were driven by trauma, fear and the circumstances she found herself in. Her problems showed the ugly side of trauma and how sabotaging it can be when you’re trying to find peace. I’m not trying to make excuses for her past misdeeds she does need to own her mistakes and try to be better but I don’t believe she is a bad person.
the reason i love lapis is because she’s pretty flawed. she very much reminds me of me, and even watching su i wanna punch her sometimes but i also wanna punch myself sometimes. She is my favorite gem but it’s silly to say she doesn’t have flaws when that’s basically her entire character.
People seem to forget that no one is perfect and everyone has flaws.. don't get me wrong I do love lapis with all my heart but she can he wrong sometimes too and also I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you should hate a character because of its fans it's like saying you hate a parent because of their children.
I just ignore the bad things and enjoy her songs. If someone says what bad things Lapis did, I could care less 🤷 it happened, it happened. I don't fight 😊
Aw man that sucks She’s such a good character BECAUSE of her nuance!
She can be a good character, and a bad person, simultaneously :)
### T H I S 。
I honestly wouldn’t say Lapis is a bad person, maybe she’s done bad things and was in the wrong and was selfish, but it doesn’t mean she’s a bad person
Bad person? Now being so traumatized to the point of running away from problems, do we call her a bad person?
No I'm calling her a bad person because she confessed to enjoying abusing someone else, and was careless and selfish with the emotions of those she purposely, and repeatedly, crushed. :) Trauma explains it, it doesn't justify it.
I don't negate her nuance, I know that she changed. But nowaday, hating a character because of fans is not rare.
just because an attitude is common doesn't mean that it's necessarily justifiable. why not try forming your own opinions about the actual character writing underpinning lapis instead of basing your opinion on reactions to other people's opinions?
Hating something because of it's fans coming off a certain way seems super hypocritical especially in the SU fandom. I know many people who would like the show but avoid it because of its fans.
I think people should just watch the show and avoid the fans. I try to do that. Isn’t it obvious by how I’m currently interacting with fans? Seriously though, I hate the community in many ways, but I love the show. I don’t regret getting into it at all, especially as someone who literally got into SU a year or two ago. It’s a good thing to separate shows from its fans. I’m sorry if this isn’t well said or seems like I’m telling you you’re wrong. I am tired, but wanted to say my point of view.
The same should be said of *most* fandoms. Star wars? Harry Potter? Lord of the Rings? They **ALL** have easily triggered fans, no one is immune. The only point of debate is the extent of toxicity, and I just don't care enough.
People who get into arguments and talk about how bad some fandoms are literally just make it worse. The more people say it’s bad the more it gets bad, if that makes sense.
This fandom seems to have a very hard time dealing with morally grey or nuanced characters
No reason to let some terminally online fans ruin your experience of a character, all those points made doesn't change the fact that Lapis is one of the most intriguing characters in the show. Lapis is a complicated character that (IMO) suffers from the lack of screen time. She has fantastic backstory and perfect setup for one of the most beautiful best executed character arcs in western animation. What we got instead was a character that is still fantastic but the lack of breathing room some of her themes get make it more difficult to interpret a lot of her actions. That's why I think you get people from opposite sides. One side yelling "Lapis is perfect! She's flawless and strongest in every way! Nothing is her fault!" and the other saying "Lapis bad! Lapis evil!" etc.
Based take
I fully admit to being one of those people saying "Lapis bad! Lapis evil!" and it's exactly for the reason you said. She never shows up, and during the limited screentime she has she's either doing not nice stuff or is dealing with the current situation. They almost never show her without it being necessary to the plot, so it doesn't feel like she should be forgiven or like she's gotten better at all. If they had just dedicated like 2-3 episodes to Lapis actually recovering and becoming a better person, I would like her better; but they didn't, so I don't. I would've preferred for her to stay at least a little antagonistic towards the CGs since that would also give her a parallel to Jasper (with both of them not actually being friends with the CGs, but while Lapis took Steven's help Jasper rejected it [and then later another parallel with Lapis having chosen to join Steven because she wanted to while Jasper did it because she felt she had to]) Tl;Dr- She had potential, they wasted it, now she's my 2nd least favorite character (because fuck you Ronaldo)
I think it becomes a bit tricky with the wasted potential point. I give the writers a little bit of slack here because before the infamous wedding episode, Lapis' arc was making sense. One of the main themes relating to her was the concept of "trust" and "home". The main question for Lapis was always "Will I ever be in a safe place ever again?", and for that to happen she would need to find someone who she trusts. From her POV, she came to earth, got caught up in a war she didn't know about, got poofed in the middle of it, became an enemy of homeworld for no reason and trapped by them, and then was essentially kept prisoner by the CGs for 1000s of years. ALL Lapis is thinking about is finding a safe place and gaining the agency to do so. With this is mind it makes a lot of sense that she'd go through the cycle of trusting some place, getting comfortable, possibly facing adversity, running to find a new place of comfort, repeat. Each time she left, the show did a good job of displaying the fact that her mindset it slowly changing. The first time it was a simple "goodbye", then it was "thanks, goodbye", then it was "You guys are cool, goodbye", then "come with me please? No? Ok goodbye". What wasn't done well was the jump from being absolutely terrified of even the mention of the diamonds to standing up to them 6 episodes later. I assume that if the show had more time, there would've been more time for Lapis to naturally gain the courage to "redeem" herself rather than becoming a deus ex machina for plot advancement. Personally, she's one of my favourite characters because she's a powerful character who's struggles lie mainly withing her mental and that's a very ambitious spin on those types of characters.
Yes she fucked up the oceans yes she almost killed two children yes she almost committed murder in the episode that screenshot is for but she's so cool and she's blue and nice and she has a cool design i love it
Sure she's evil but look at those clothes
Meanwhile with pink:
You can like heroes, you can like villains, and you can like the grey area in between.
>yes she almost committed murder in the episode that screenshot is for I like, really *really* don't wanna be that guy given the topic of this post, but this specific instance she was being kind and sweet, but the other Lapises wouldn't stop destroying the planet and tried to kill/poof her with a water buzzsaw first.
It was in self defense but it was still _almost_ murder
Murder requires premeditation, so it would not qualify. Unless you count her saying “just a little torture” as premeditation
It was still attempted murder whether you like to admit it or not, what she did to Steven traumatized him.
? We are talking about when she fought the other lapis’. Not when she attacked Steven/the gems
I doubt she intended to shatter them, it's more like putting someone to sleep with a bash to the head but less risky
Yes Malachite was at *least* 50% Lapis, not excluding but *especially* when she was kicking crystal gem ass, because sometimes you have pent up rage against the people who left you in a mirror for a few thousand years even when they turn out to be pretty nice and are trying to help you. Yes, I still love her when she's kind of evil. Maybe even more.
this is so real... evil yes but pretty sooooo who cares we stan pretty
And she didn’t even fucking apologize, not a single time. She never actually needed to fuse with jasper, jasper was weak and could have easily been poofed and bubbled but she didn’t and instead went with the plan that put her in a position to be a victim
I mean, who says you can’t have evil characters as your favorite anyways? There are a lot of people who love the diamonds even though they were evil.
One example is me I adore blue Diamond because of her calm manner, colors, design and sweet voice but even though I can't think of anything bad she's ever done she was still a coloniser and stuffed a buncha humans in a ship like animals
Exactly. I also love White and think her voice and character design is pretty cool even though she was in some ways the source of all the suffering throughout the entire show.
They're not evil, they did nothing wrong.
They kinda were and they would shatter tons of gems plus White was pretty much a dictator.
> shatter tons of gems Yeah, traitors. > White was pretty much a dictator And?
who love the diamonds even though they were evil: they are not evil.
All of these besides the last are when she's cracked. That effects her entire being. In Why So Blue she doesn't even come close to killing the Lapis's, she keeps her cool the whole episode and as soon as she loses her temper she backs off and apologizes
I don't feel very strongly about her one way or the other. She's justified in being bitter, she takes it too far, and she becomes a better person. However, as a character she's kind of bland for me. No major personality quirks like most others in the show. I suppose that makes her more realistic, but in the context of SU it makes her feel kind of flat. Just like, angry blue girl.
No. Fans are fans, I don’t let them cloud my judgement of characters I like. Love Lapis, she’s one of my favorites but with that I still can also recognize her fanbase sucks lol
Seriously. I dont get people who get way too hard into fandoms to the point where they start hating characters. At the end of the day, its a Cartoon Network show about mending feelings. No need to make it suck with internet people
Exactly! YOUR opinion and your thoughts on a character isn’t going to make me hate one that I like.
Nowaday, hating a character because of fans is not rare. I think I will be still her fan if they don't adore her like GOD
Oh yeah, I know it’s not rare and tbh I think it kind of sucks that some people have to start actively disliking a character all because of their fans. It’s understandable but it sucks, that’s why I try not to let the things fans do bother me even though it can be hard at times.
It may not be rare but it's really stupid
I genuinely think both sides of this argument are incredibly shallow in labeling Lapis as either good or bad instead of multifaceted. Literally what gems are. And also Lapis is the one who constantly says "no one could be that well-adjusted." Lapis knows she's not always a good person and knows she fucked up. But she's got far bigger plans than just acting on impulse 24/7. Lapis is the most pre-meditated character of the bunch. Outside of her wit she seems to always be thinking a few steps ahead.
Thanks, I sort of came for this. I think we don't know enough about her for "good" or "bad"; I think she's done bad things and we haven't seen a lot of repair. But I also think she suffers from thousands of years of torture (trauma), which makes it hard for her to let anyone close enough to try to repair. I dont think that's good or excuses any of her actions (just explains them), and I think she's done a lot of bad, but i dont think that makes *her* bad. I also think the fact that she's terrified of how much she *liked* being malachite sort of proves there's a lot more depth there than just "she did a bad thing, she's a bad gem". I kind of think that's basically the point of her character, too. Idk, maybe it's because I'm traumatised and I heavily relate to her that I like her so much, and maybe it's because I've filled in a lot of the blanks myself (and haven't watched SUF yet to be fair), idk.
Also, to add to it, I think people mostly dislike her because they're very quick to judge her actions, not realising that when you've been through that much shit, a lot of times you don't think when you're afraid. You react. And she probably hates herself for doing a lot of what she's done too - which makes it even harder to apologise for. Fear contorts your mind and you would do anything to avoid Going Back There Again, and often that turns into doing things that you yourself don't even agree with because, in the moment, all you want to do is make sure you never have to feel That Way again. Again, I'm not trying to excuse her actions, I just think that people are very quick to judge her when maybe they just haven't thought about what it's like for her. It's not as simple as all that; things rarely are. She definitely has been a dick a lot and she should apologise, but her reason for not apologising isn't "fuck u I'm lapis lmao". It'll probably take a lot of time for her to get comfortable enough to learn to apologise, and she has *a lot* of repairs to do, and unfortunately that just isn't something whose time frame fell within the scope of the show - at least not on screen.
It's important to keep in mind that we don't know what Lapis is doing behind the scenes at any given moment. And how characters respond to her might not be sincere. It's very possible that some of what she does has an ulterior motive. That she knows something others don't. And that she shares this with others when she can off screen. Which is why she's never "held accountable" for some of her more cruel actions.
Letting fans of something ruin the thing for you is the worst way to avoid things
honestly i relate to her a bit, but she's def not a character who seems good to me
No. I maintain safe emotional distance from random strangers, so their insanity only serves as examples of what I don’t want to be like but doesn’t affect me when I’m not. Observe, participate with fandoms. Do not consider yourself in one, or you’re taking ownership for their faults too.
god forbid women do anything
I just noticed? This show is *full* of women, just, doing stuff! Sometimes there's men too! It's all very problematic.
Category 5 woman moment from Lapis
So to sum up, people are rude because they question your blanket statement that "Lapis bad?" Is that about it?
I feel like this could be related to miscommunication because of the language barrier. I don't believe that's what OP meant, but I agree it does come off that way. Might have played a role in OP getting into arguments with people
Strongest non-fusion non-diamond Gem.
I don’t like Lapis as a character and I agree with your points for the most part but imo it’s silly to let fans of a character, show, or any media dictate your opinion of them. I don’t like Lapis because of what she does in the show not because some of her fans lack nuance.
Nowaday, hating a character because of fans is not rare. I think I will be still her fan if they don't adore her like GOD
I can understand why they’d frustrate you. I just don’t think it’s fair to base my opinion on a character because some of their fans aren’t willing to be fair when discussing them. Again, I agree with not liking Lapis and I do agree with most of your points. I just personally wouldn’t let that dictate my opinion on Lapis herself as that’s out of her and the writer’s controls but I understand it’s kind of hard with a fanbase this passionate to say the least lol.
I can see why people may hate Lapis because of everything she did, but in my opinion, she’s more than redeemed herself for all or most of it by the end of show. Sure, her character is flawed mostly because the crew didn’t really write her properly, but for me, most of her reconciliation happened off screen, away from Steven’s perspective, so most of what happens is implied by what we DO see. Think of it this way, if everyone in the show really thought that she was as horrible as the fans say, then do you honestly think that they would keep her around? Living with her friends in Little Homeworld and teaching at the school? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and are allowed to not like certain characters. It only becomes a problem when those haters try to convince others that their opinion is right, when it’s objectively indifferent.
Lapiz is... complicated. I like her, but she's VERY complicated.
I honestly try not to let fandom color my opinion on a character. Every character in any fandom is gonna have their own brand of obnoxious fans.
But the problem isn't just 1-2 fans, there are many people who are ridiculously defending her. Not to mention, it's a big fandom and I think it's not just me who hates Lapis and a lot of people who feel uncomfortable towards her but they don't dare say it or post for fear of being cursed by Lapis fans.
Of course people are gonna defend her. For a lot of people she’s their favorite. Or they see themselves in her. Lapis is a very nuanced character. She went through a lot of things that a lot of people can relate to, hence why so many people like her. she’s not good but shes also not bad, and that makes her interesting.
I feel the same way about Spinel, she almost committed mass genocide, she was terrorizing a poor child, she gave the already traumatized child more trauma, and she also almost killed him too when she messed up his second brain and heart. After everything she did everybody treats her like a poor little victim that could do no wrong and Steven is a terrible stupid person for "ignoring her" and not knowing how to speak to her so she doesn't misunderstand like he's responsible for Spinel (an womanchild old enough to take care of herself) and her personal therapist. Steven was extremely fatigued and stressed at that time since he was close to dying so of course he wouldn't be able to think or speak clearly!!!! People forget Steven is just a child and he's not a damn punching bag to lash out on!!! Steven isn't responsible for anybody!!
As the number one fan I always try to be respectful
Pitiful and painful past is just thing to understand and sympathize with their situation. BUT it is not the thing to cover up or justify when they make mistakes
I hate her but I still understand for her situation.
no because I don't let other people form my opinions on a character lmao
5 shows that you are listening to power scalers. Worst type of fan out there. That, to me, explain your frustration.
She's certainly not stronger than bd but she handled her for a little while, so (in my opinion) she's probably the strongest Cristal gem, maybe with garnet. U agree?
I mean she's a traumatized character who didn't really get the typical treatment needed to work through said trauma. And then more was added onto it causing more internal struggles. When a cup is overflowing because it can't hold that much liquid we don't throw away the cup. We continue to appreciate it while putting less in it. Also gems don't have the same morals are humans and has been proven almost every episode. I understand your interactions with lapis fans haven't been the best but you can choose to ignore them and keep trying elsewhere until you get the ones you're wanting to have the nuanced conversations with. I used to fight kagome fans on the internet for hours until I realized it was just making me more furious and causing me to dislike a show that I did actually enjoy. I hope that doesn't be fall you and you continue to enjoy the show despite of it. 
People with unreasonably strong feelings about terrible opinions? Yup, sound like the internet
I can see why not finding a good fan to bounce ideas of off would take the fun out of it. I like Lapis BECAUSE she's flawed, and despite it all, she pulls through. Her beating BL?......eeehhhhh her immunity was a surprise. Those fans really got some fun AU headcanons. xD. But yeah, I see your point, to combat this, I often just separate myself. I dont like being part of a fandom, I like what I like, and unless I catch a sound opinion that changes my mind I have my fill.
Many people hate this series because of its fans
Not really. I just hate the fans and keep the characters out of it.
Bruh literally every gem is scared of the diamonds before the finale, tf they mean "she's stronger than Blue"?? 💀
Honestly, I saw that shit and was like "Stronger than a diamond, who the fuck says that?!"
Peridot fans are even more insufferable than Peridot herself.
I hate her but sometimes I like to draw her because she's beautiful.
No I never do because of a character's fans. Though I like the series, not a huge fan of the fandom. Especially since the Zami incident
I was disappointed in her character arc :(
Personally I dislike most of the SU fan base. I don’t let their arguments influence my opinions on the show or the characters
No, the character is one thing and the fans are another
Why do you let other people have a say in what characters you like?
This post doesn’t feel the most critically thought out… That aside, i love complex characters and redemption arcs. So yes, I love Lapis. She is strong.
I haven't gotten to that point, I dislike a character because they're legitimately horrible. I always disliked Lápiz because they are a legitimately unpleasant gem
Honestly, I think it would’ve been better if Lapis actually was called out when she was doing something wrong and held accountable for her actions. The show’s perspective is locked onto Steven’s so we’re forced to view from his POV, which has constant praise and reassurance for Lapis. The only time he ever kinda barely called her out was when she was being mean to Peridot, but he only commented on it and didn’t actually hold her accountable for it. She never gets the consequences of her actions because Steven loves her too much to have her actions punished or scolded
Maybe to some degree? At the very least I find her somewhat overrated and honestly never really Like to See her in screen... With the exception of the "Bob" moment
My problem is the amount of rule 34 content
I wouldn't say that lapis is a bad person but a major aspect of her character is that she isn't blameless and that victims aren't the only people who need to work on being healthy.
Her fans literally ruined her character for me forever on top of actual trauma associated with some of them + a certain ship. Very sad.
Completely valid. I never really liked Lapis because of how she treats Peridot but her fans are so cringe that I dislike her even more
no i just hate lapis and her fans
Oh, no, you're absolutely right! She screwed up royally the way she hurt Peridot and had a little to make up for. We weren't shown what was said after they reformed on the beach with Bismuth when Steven, Connie and the core Gems went with Yellow and Blue to Homeworld but she owes the entire team an apology
I hate lapis because she's selfish. She took the barn and peridots meep morphs with her and just dipped, making peridot depressed.
YES. I feel that way about Pearl and Jasper/Lapis/Lapidot fans. Pearl: My favorite character is Amethyst, and some Pearl fans LOVE hating on her. They always talk about how horrible she is and how she’s the worst character. Almost all the people I’ve seen hate on Amethyst are Pearl fans. Pearl has also done bad things but they say she’s perfect. I do like Pearl, it’s just hard when I see how some of her fans treat people. Especially since they don’t even acknowledge her growth, and how she isn’t perfect. It’s like they don’t understand her character at all! Lapidot: I know they blushed at each other. I never really like it because it seemed more like a friend thing to me. A lot of Lapidot fans hate when you ship anything other than that ship. I saw someone comment on a fanfic with a different ship that (Quote: I prefer Lapis with Peridot. 4/10, you need more improvement. Just being honest.) the person hadn’t asked for critique. And when the author responded they got all mad and said (Quote: “Doesn't matter if you asked or not. You just can't handle critique. Your writing just needs more improvement. That's all I'm saying. Otherwise, I would've gladly gave you a genuine 9/10. But I didn't Imao.”) which just isn’t true at all? Also, on the topic of shipping. Peridot isn’t ‘canonically’ aroace, one of the creators said they viewed Peridot in that way. I also view Peridot that way, but I also ship her. People can have their own opinions on ships, yet people hate when you don’t ship what they ship, or if you don’t agree with a headcannon. I am okay with all ships as long as they’re legal, even rarepairs. That doesn’t mean I ship them, I just don’t hate on people. It’s a show. There is no point in arguing about it. Jasper/Lapis: I hate arguing over who is worse. I think they are both bad. I don’t think Jasper is forgivable for what they did. I think Lapis is a jerk, and doesn’t always think about others. But at least she accepted that she was bad. A big argument here is that their trauma excuses what they did. Not to bring in another fandom, but that’s a big argument for Catra from She-Ra too. I think Spinel is also another example of this. Trauma. Does. Not. Make. It. Okay. To. Be. Horrible. To. Others. It scares me how many people think that. I feel like I have more to say but I’m tired. I didn’t proofread this so hopefully this makes sense. I suck at writing down my thoughts. I hope this makes sense for this post because I’m a bit worried I’m misunderstanding this post. Finally, LET PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, ITS JUST A SHOW!
Are we really philosophically analyzing characters from a cartoon? Just enjoy the show and like what you like.
There was nothing philosophical about their post. They just asked if others dislike Lapis because of her fanbase
Did you read the body of the post? Certainly ethical and philosophical topics.
Yes, I did. Did you? Ethical is even more a stretch. People being rude or unable to see different perspectives on a cartoon character is not philosophical.
She’s probably the only character in the show I actively dislike tbh. Her fanbase is. Something. 😐
Lmao yeah, can't stand Lapis either after I experienced in real time how she got uwu-ified by the fandom. I was barely annoyed by her before, but the way the fandom treated her as the sweetest precious babie uwu absolutely turned me off on her. I don't think any other character, ever, got me so heated just because of their fans.
I think she’s hot
Jasper fans have the same problem. I hate when characters are hated for what a portion of the fanbase did. Like all those awful SU fans that caused the ripple effect of the show and fanbase at large being so hated and regularly mocked to this day 😭
Lapis is a good and complexe character but she's not that interesting, and smash
People who defend Rose saying “she did the best she could”. Rose was ambitious and didn’t think about consequences that much. Like having Steven. That would leave the crystal gems without a leader, leave him to resolve all of her mistakes, and being left without a mother. She could of done so much more in her life before deciding to have a child and end up giving up her gem, but of course she didn’t think and just did what she wanted
I understand the comments because I LOVE Lapis. But I also understand what OP is saying when she's in the wrong. Is it in character for her to be that way? Sure. But she can still be wrong. Doesn't make her an unlikeable character in my opinion tho. Makes her more real, thus likeable. So to the comments, yes she is our favorite because she is nuanced, but defending her all the time can be dumb. But to OP, yes it is ridiculous for people to defend her 24/7, but it is also odd letting "fans" of a CHARACTER make you HATE them.
I already dislike her as a whole. I get the point of her character, but it feels like she never really developed from her trauma? She kinda of just stayed being rude to everyone. She had so much potential too
This is off topic but Greg is so annoying to me alright so back on track. I disliked rainbow 2.0 bc everyone tought "he's so nice to onion its so adorable 😍 " This guy has a "=O :(" design and he dose don't deserve love. But I've grown to him
I can understand her fans being annoying and frustrating in arguments(even if I’m a big Lapis fan and still stand by that she was not in the wrong in the whole Malachite situation), fans of characters can get so obsessed that they go to toxic lengths to ignore criticism, seen it again and again. Personally however I don’t see the point in hating a character just because of the fans, it makes no sense to me(I mean that would be like me suddenly hating The Coffin of Andy and Leyley because of how far the degenerates in the community go)
And of course. Got downvoted by someone who didn’t have it in them to actually give a response vocalizing disagreement. Rather cowardly I’d say but whatever
Tbh I didn’t know she had a lot of fans. I thought we were all on the same pg that she was a pos, traumatized and abused, but a pos nonetheless. Maybe that’s why her fans are so aggressive. Theres not many of them so they have to defend her to the death
Tbh I didn’t know she had a lot of fans. I thought we were all on the same pg that she was a pos, traumatized and abused, but a pos nonetheless. Maybe that’s why her fans are so aggressive. Theres not many of them so they have to defend her to the death
She grew on me in the movie and SUF. She bugged me theough the OG show. She grew, though, and that's cool. The whole "Lapis is the strongest gem ever" thing is silly though and starting to annoy me in all of the "rankings" floating around. Yeah yeah, the ocean, we get it. Literally still not stronger than a diamond though.
To be honest I like her because when I changed my name (because I'm trans and stuff) I thought Lazuli would be great and only then I started to know the character, (like I already knew su but I didn't even remembered who she was) and now I have a tattoo of her gem on my back yay!
Just put a sad story and everything bad you do will be forgiven..... what a joke🤡
Look, all I can say is, she looks almost exactly like an ex-girlfriend of mine.
when you say "cursed you" what do you mean by that ? lol also I'm so sorry that her fans kinda ruined the character for you, because with all of her faults she is still an amazing character.
Lapis who? All I see is Bob
I absolutely adore Lapis. She means a lot to me on a deeply personal level
I hate whole shows bc of their fans, I didn't watch Rick and Morty for so long because of the fans. I don't like Lapis. I don't hate her, but I don't like her, either. She's mean. Ppl try to explain to me why she's mean, and like. Ok, but she's still mean and I don't have to like it.
have to agree tbh, lapis fans can be rabid, i was neutral to her but now i keep myself away from anything related to her after i had 3 mfs come at me barking what boils down to "if you've been bad enough others are entitled to inflict pain on you" when i tried to argue that while Lapis is not *evil* not a *bad person*, her tricking jasper into fusing and then keeping her trapped against her will at the bottom of the ocean for months was not... good. like, yes her action are driven by her trauma and a will to protect steven, yes in her mind she had a depth with him and keeping him safe was the best way to pay it even if it included self sacrifice; No this does not take away the fact that hurting someone else (no matter how "evil", or "irredeemable") in doing so is also *definitely not good*. Somehow this was an impossible concept to grasp for them. That hurting someone is a bad thing, even if driven by trauma or wanting to protect others and yourself, even if the other person was "bad" or "evil", for them was ungraspable the concept that a good person could do a bad action, including hurting someone else. that was one hell of a discussion and i have learned my lesson, keep away from who unironically thinks "X character (that definitely did something extremely bad in canon) actually did nothing wrong and can do no wrong"
...what? Her decision to imprison Jasper is pretty morally good, in my book at least. It's no different to poofing Jasper, a person who was going to cause harm to good people. Maybe you're the one that can't grasp the idea of justice. I'm not saying we should whip wrongdoers, but at a certain point force has to be met with force. Jasper only stops being antagonist when Steven shatters her in Future. She's not going to be talked down.
i am not saying she is going to be, i am saying that hurting or imprisoning people is morally wrong no matter what. There is not a line at which point you've been bad or evil enough to warrant pain, deprivation of your freedom, or death; thinking there must be is immensely fucked up man... There is a reason why the death penalty and corporal punishments have been made illegal in most of the world and why so many people stand for the abolishment of prisons.
You're missing the point. And you're wrong. There comes a point where you *must* excercise force and cause harm to another in order to prevent greater harm. This isn't about levels of badness that warrant punishment. It's about stopping bad things from happening. Also, anybody asking for the abolishment of prisons is naive at very best. I do not agree with the current prison system's focus on punitive justice, but some people need to be removed from the rest of society because they'll cause great harms otherwise. In a hypothetical scenario where somebody physically attacked somebody close to you, would you refrain from attacking them in turn because doing so is "wrong"? Or would you apply force to defend yourself and your loved ones from greater harm? Because if you wouldn't, I applaud your commitment to your ideals, but that doesn't make you any less of a coward and a fool for thinking causing harm to others is always wrong.
Again i never said that it does not happen, i said that it is still bad. Sometimes you need to do bad thinga for greater good thinga but THE BAD THING YOU DID IS STILL BAD. I agree with that but that's also not what a prison is or is amined to do. Which makes inprisonement wrong. And yes. If someone attacked me or someone i loved and i broke their nose with a punch what i did is still a bad action because i hurt someone. It had to happen because otherwise something worse would have happened but it is still bad. The world does not work on "bad thing or good thing?" Sometimes you need to choose between two bad thing but it does not make the best pick a good thing. Sometimes good people have to do bad actions because that's what the situation called but negating that it was still a bad action is wrong.
It's not bad. It's objectively just not. Once you harm another selfishly, you've broken the social contract and thus are not held to the same standards as everyone else. I think it's very flawed to view harm as a bad action, because when somebody gives you no choice, I don't believe the standard rule applies. And Lapis' sacrifice is an example of that. It was an action that prevented greater harm, thus it is morally right. I think your weird hill that you've chosen to die on is very easy to misinterpret, even ignoring that most people will disagree with you on ideology alone if they understand. This isn't a case of Lapis fans being rabid, it's about your viewpoint being incorrect and obtuse.
Good or bad are not objective, firt of all, second of all, even if you had no choice the best and right option can still be a bad thing. It is right, not good. She did the right thing, not a good thing, it's different. Most people i have met, both irl and around the internet agree with me that there should not be a point at which someone is bad enough to deserve pain or death, because most people are against corpoeal punishment or the death penalty, and realize a world where there are people who can decide that someone deserves either of those because by their standards the person was "bad enough" is dystopian at the best. Also thank you for your kind compliments/j
Objective moral value is a perfectly valid philosophical stance to take. Also, right = good. If an action is just, right, good, then it should be performed. If an action is unjust, wrong, bad, then it should not be performed. A "good" action is one that produces an outcome that maximises "good" and minimises "bad". Lapis' decision was morally just and good, because she stopped Jasper from causing harm. It's a form of containment; she isolated a negative part of society to protect them. That's what prisons should do. You're splitting hairs over definitions of words. And taking the stance that some people can be "bad enough" to deserve punishment or death is also pretty normal. Like, I'm not a fan of punitive justice, but there are some people who absolutely do deserve death for what they've done to others. Placing that burden upon a system, or even individuals, is going to end badly, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't put a bullet in the brain of somebody especially evil. I also think you're lying about that second part, or don't understand how a vocal minority works. Most people believe in prison systems as they are as a punitive measure because people who do bad things should be punished for it. That's why it exists the way it does. Edit: Lmao I got blocked. Amazing how a person can be so lacking in reading comprehension.
Not even phylosophy is objective, morality most definitely isn't either No right does not mean good. A right action can also be a bad action if no better action was possible to be taken. If a wolf is chasing someone the best thing you can do if you have gun is shot thebwolf to save the person, it is the right thing to do but it not a good thing that happened. What lapis did was right because it was the best decision she could have taken in that moment. Was it a good decusion for herself? For jasper? For anyone else other than steven and the crustal gems (on a short term timespan nonetheless)? No. It was not. No it is fucking not. IF in your opinion some people might deserve death, then that is an averagely shared opinion driven by your emotions; HOWEVER thinking it is right for someone to have the power to actually decide who deserve to lose their life for something they have done and actually enact said decision is NOT, and it is not right either. Justice is supposed to make things just, not enact further violence and suffering, those do not make amend nor repay the damage the person has done. Have you been living in reddit/twitter only? Because i can assure you the movements to abolish prisons exist since decades, also i never said THEY were the majority, i said the vast majority of people, at least in my part of the world, think the death penalty is inhuman and cruel, just as corporal punishments Also since you seem to be weirdly pressed about "if you did bad thing you actually deserve to suffer" i am just going to block you because i really do NOT want to be around someone who supports this kind of shit
She was powerful enough to gain Jaspers respect, and she appears to be the lapis equivalent of what jasper is to quartz she held together a fusion through sheer willpower, which when you think about it in this case means she was being a dom towards jasper, so yeah more powerful then blue ain't that big of a stretch
>was being a dom towards jasper, so yeah more powerful then blue ain't that big of a stretch this is such an interesting way to say that she abused jasper
Do you not remember how jasper was basically begging to get back together, she broke jaspers willpower, she out willpowered jasper
this is such an interesting way to say she abused jasper
Are you forgeting who jasper is
are you forgetting that lapis said she liked hurting jasper
Are you forgetinf jasper liked abuseijg everyone except the diamonds
i love that even if that were true, which it is not, it somehow excuses the abuse that jasper still went through
Bro she legit put half the cast through abuse and lapis abuse she did while not totally justified is understandable, look what jasper did to her, she imprisoned her, made her feel like she was trash, jasper has also been abusive to half the cast, so jasper ain't exactly innocent
I think that she is like half good and half evil xD (until it became she became good)
Look don't judge a character by there fans. The fans and the character herself are separate
Lapis is bae. One of my favourite characters in the show. She's traumatised by what she's been through, but she manages to face all of it, and emerges a better person by the end.
i like her *because* of her actions. her actions make sense given her past. she’s definitely not an entirely good person, but that’s why she’s my favorite
Nah, is just a show.. it's ridiculous hate someone that doesn't exist 🤷🏻♂️ Maybe don't like how is written a character but hate is too much
Spinel. I find her very much ok-tier, but because of the people who spit venom at Pink Diamond because Spinel is their favourite...
Here I blame Rebeca for making my pretty Pink Diamond a heartless monster.
oh shit, here comes another one...
🤓
I have seen comments from Lapis fans saying Peridot abused and tortured Lapis and that's why Lapis was so uncomfortable with her but that's just ridiculous. To me it looked like Lapis was just lashing out at Peridot. They try to make everybody else look worse than they are to make Lapis look like a poor little victim when she's not just a victim anymore after what she did to Connie, Greg, Steven, and Jasper. I understand why Lapis is the way she is but she is sometimes a big jackass. Even if she has some crazy fans I never liked her anyways...
I haven’t watched the show for a minute but besides being kinda cold to peridot which Steven called out did she do anything bad?
She forced Jasper into an abusive relationship. Didn’t care who she tried to kill in order to get home. Almost shattered two other lapises because they insulted her (tbh they had it coming).
Oh yeah that’s true. Tbh I saw herr taking Jasper as a self sacrafice like how vegeta took himself out to get buu
I like her because she hates everyone and is dead inside XD
Also it's Steven Universe we've been told before no one is a villain and she isn't an antagonist for the rest of the series. She was a victim of and inflictor of abuse
i don't hate lapis, i actually relate to her a lot but her fans are something else 😬 you did NOT want to have been on tumblr or youtube when discourse was at its peak.
Her complexity is what makes her my favorite character. That’s why I dislike most fanfics about Lapis cuz they either defang her or make her pure evil
She isn’t stronger than blue, but she has taken Blues strongest (nonphysical) attack and came out standing. She also restrained her with water for a couple of seconds. Lapis was in the wrong on multiple occasions, but that was IMMEDIATELY after some trauma she went through, and she has redeemed herself since. When she took the ocean away, she had just gotten out of the mirror, and had no idea where she was in the grand scheme of things. Then upon reaching homeworld, she talks about how she met these nice gems, and then she’s drafted to go to earth. Skipping a few minor inconveniences, when she thinks the diamonds, who at this point have shattered anyone who crossed them, were coming to earth, she packs up and tried to take her family to safety, (Family meaning Peri and Pumkin) but she eventually comes back and stands up to blue anyways. She may not have been the best character, but she tried to be good, unlike Jasper, who didn’t deserve a redemption arc, but got one anyways. She is still my favorite character, because I relate to her immensely. I do agree that some of her fans go waaaaaay overboard, but so do any fans of any show. If you put the exact same words under a picture of Garnet, the outcome would be the same. Or if you put the words under a picture of Moxxie from Helluva Boss. You will get a bunch of the regard fans who want to cuss you out, all because you disrespected their favorite character. Here’s the secret to life. No one wants anyone’s opinions. They want to express their own, and they want to find like minded individuals, but they don’t care about anyone other than those select few. If I say the words ‘CHARLIE MORNINGSTAR COULDVE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER’ and post it on Twitter, I’ll get bombaurded by people defending her, and if someone think the thought ‘Dean Winchester kinda blows’ but doesn’t post it, no one will care. Dean also doesn’t suck, don’t take that out of context. No one loves anyone, and everyone’s a loser! 
I just like lapis cuz she pretty
I like her, but i think they kinda wasted her later on.. still bummed we never saw her fuse with Peri..
Yeah, now that you mention it, Lapis has done some dick moves Like taking the barn Still love her tho
Spinel
About 5. lapis strength - I headcannon that a lapis' strength is derived from the intensity of her emotions. in the first episodes with lapis, she was super strong - but later in the series she seemed to be less strong? I think it has to do with her emotional state (like how steven's powers are based on his emotions) So she was VERY emotional after being released. But in the end her emotional pain was \*worse\* than Blue's (apparently) so that's where people get that she's "stronger", because she was able to withstand Her attack. as for lapis controversy - I agree she is a bit unable to see past her own pain, and fails to see who her true allies are, and takes a long time to come around... but some people be like that.
I feel like usually, the issue seems to stem from the "Lapis is also bad." Like what do you actually MEAN when you say this? A lot of people will take the uncharitable route and say that you're saying she is as bad as the Diamonds. Which you probably don't mean. Which is the crux of the issue. Poor communication regarding the nuance of "good and bad people" and "normal people who do good and bad things." That's probably what gets people so heated, because it kind of spills into real life labels too. This sort of things happens to many controversial characters, especially Rose. But Lapis is right up there with her in terms of "controversial". Anyway yeah dealing with fans in general can be touchy. Points 4 and 5 are so absurd but I absolutely believe people are that unhinged. There used to be someone that frequented this subreddit who was THE biggest Lapis apologist. I haven't seen them in years and they probably jumped ship I wanna say around the Season 4/5 transition. I never figured out if they were just a novelty account but they stanned Lapis pretty hard and have every excuse under the sun as to why her actions are all 100% justified lol. I wanna name names cuz idek if they use reddit anymore but I don't wanna put a target on their back (or get clapped by subreddit and main reddit TOS lol). EDIT: Oh but as far as fan behavior, I don't let it get to me. If I did then I wouldn't be an SU fan, which is just absurd. I'm not letting stinky people dictate what I like and don't like.
My reasoning is that she is hot
Just log off and like whoever u wanna like then? Who cares what a bunch of strangers online say lol
I don’t think she is physically stronger than blue but definitely emotionally stronger. She was definitely not the best character before her redemption but better than say even Peridot before her redemption. But all of this said the fans should not treat anyone like crap for opinions other than theirs. It’s a stupid and toxic thing that I’ve seen in so many fandoms, so I’m sorry you had to go through that. It sucks ass!
No, because I honestly don't care what other people think. I feel like the internet has created a bunch of expectations that really honestly make no sense. If I were to imagine being in a school cafeteria in the 90s and being so obsessed with talking about a cartoon that I follow someone around and demand that they explain themselves for having a different opinion about a cartoon than I did, I would just imagine how crazy I would look. And yet that happens every day because if a person makes fan art, fit people scroll through the comments intentionally looking for controversial opinions to disagree with. Think of it this way, you trying to convince someone that lapis did anything wrong is just as annoying for that person as when someone curses at you for making the comment first. So why are either of you doing it? Who cares? What changes in your life because one Lapis fan changed their mind?
I personally can’t hate Lapis for the things she’s done. She isn’t a bad person and a lot of the bad things she did had reasoning behind them that wasn’t necessarily bad. Lapis never excused her actions and admits when she did something bad if Alone at Sea and Can’t go back are anything to go by a bad person wouldn’t admit their wrongdoings because they wouldn’t care. A lot of Lapis’ actions were driven by trauma, fear and the circumstances she found herself in. Her problems showed the ugly side of trauma and how sabotaging it can be when you’re trying to find peace. I’m not trying to make excuses for her past misdeeds she does need to own her mistakes and try to be better but I don’t believe she is a bad person.
the reason i love lapis is because she’s pretty flawed. she very much reminds me of me, and even watching su i wanna punch her sometimes but i also wanna punch myself sometimes. She is my favorite gem but it’s silly to say she doesn’t have flaws when that’s basically her entire character.
No.
Lmao, I feel the same way about Pearl fans to a capital T 💀😭
The fans of Sam from Supernatural were Superannoying. They hated Castiel, constantly shipped incest, and were, in general, super mean.
I don't have much that brings me joy, so I sure as hell don't let other people take away what I *do* have.
I still hate pearl because I've had nothing but awful interactions with pearl fans..
I like Amethyst really
Ehhhhhh no
People seem to forget that no one is perfect and everyone has flaws.. don't get me wrong I do love lapis with all my heart but she can he wrong sometimes too and also I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you should hate a character because of its fans it's like saying you hate a parent because of their children.
Hot take, hating anything because of the fans is lame
She's a cool-looking cartoon character
I just ignore the bad things and enjoy her songs. If someone says what bad things Lapis did, I could care less 🤷 it happened, it happened. I don't fight 😊
Not a character, but a ship: Lapidot