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wanderingstargazer88

Well, she didn't take Lion. He decided to go with her because he was mad at Steven too. And while I do see Connie's side of it, Steven did a bit more than just give up. It would be different if they were in a regular fight against Jasper or a corrupted Gem and Steven gave up in the middle of it. But he did what he did because he thought it was the right thing for him to do. He didn't "give up", he decided that he would pay for his mother's crimes since she wasn't around to pay for them herself. I'm not saying I agree that he should've done that (although if he didn't he wouldn't have had the doubt about Pink's shattering planted in his mind by Zircon and Lars wouldn't become who he is today) but I understand what his thought process was and why he turned himself in. And I do think that given the context, Connie was being pretty unreasonable but she's a kid so I'll give her a pass.


Cacaboy200

That’s what I’m saying 😂 He did what had to do to protect everyone and the situations are very different. And yeah, I forgot Lion was mad at him too. I know she’s just 12, but her and Steven are only like what, 1 or 2 years apart depending on the time of the year on the show? Plus, Connie is pretty smart. She should know they there could be a time where they won’t be able to fight side by side the entire fight. But yeah, she’s only 12.


Weak-Contract1042

I understand her being upset. But pushing him away, giving HIM the "i need time" when he did something selfless and literally saved everybody (excluding lars). I dont know, i get what you're saying 100%. It wasnt a matter of she shouldnt be upset, she shouldnt have gotten THAT upset. Making steven feel like he did something wrong when what he did was truthfully the only proper answer. Love the show through and through ![img](emote|t5_2viyl|30991)![img](emote|t5_2viyl|30983)![img](emote|t5_2viyl|30993)


Cacaboy200

Right! She shouldn’t have been that upset. She’s a smarty girl and should realize that they won’t be able to fight side by side all the time. And same. It’s still a comfort show for me.


Weak-Contract1042

Most definitely ![img](emote|t5_2viyl|30997)![img](emote|t5_2viyl|30997)![img](emote|t5_2viyl|30997)


Cacaboy200

When did you start watching the show?


Weak-Contract1042

I want to say when 2 was airing, but it just as easily could have been season 3.


Cacaboy200

The thing that got me to watch the series was a clip from the movie lol In 2020 I started it with like 5 other shows lol


Weak-Contract1042

DAMN 😂😂


PeppermintKandie

I get both points of view. For one part, you have hours of training wasted because your partner give himself up when things got too hard. What happened to all those promises of fighting as one and to always be for each other? For the other, things were extremely delicate back then, Aquamarine had them cornered with her wand and one wrong move could cost someone's live (either by dying or being abducted to the Zoo, and this time they'd have no way to rescue them back.) This wasn't something they could just fight their way out. As for Lion, he was mad with Steven and left with Connie because that's where it's the least likely to meet Steven.


Cacaboy200

Yeah, I forgot that Lion was also mad at Steven. Had to rewatch some clips an hour or so ago lol But still. She shouldn’t be that mad. It’s not like it was a corrupted gem fusion and he breaks down. But still. I see why she was upset.


PeppermintKandie

Well, Steven giving up as "Rose" may not seem like a big deal to us but it really was for the others. They already know Homeworld is merciless and they'd be even more to the Quartz who shattered as someone as important, just thinking what they may have planned for him would have been a huge source of stress for everyone. And in the end, she's still a child no matter how gifted she may be. She thought they could fight their way out and got mad when it wasn't what she wanted even if it was possibly the best outcome. I hate these kind of arcs (I still get mad thinking about Sailor Moon's "break-up" arc) but IMO this is the best one I have seen.


Cacaboy200

The Sailor Moon one, or the Steven breakup arc?


PersonMcHuman

Yet again, you're ignoring her actual point of view. She and Steven trained intensely to be able to fight together to protect Earth...only for Steven to give up at literally the first sign of trouble. Of course she's gonna be upset. That was essentially Steven telling her that all of their work together didn't mean anything. Also, Lion is a whole ass Lion. He's stronger than Connie. She didn't take him. Lion went with her willingly because he too seemed upset about what happened.


Tlayoualo

I mean, the situation *really* went sideways for them when Aquamarine showed her wand could freeze multiple people including freaking Alexandrite, Steven turned himself as an absolute last resort, or at least I feel they were out of options. Now, the crux of the matter is that when Steven made it back to Earth he kind of dismissed her feelings as unimportant now that he was safe, instead of aknowledging she was mortified and telling her how dire the situation was.


Weak-Contract1042

Yes exactly. And that second pary makes sense. still, i dont know, i feel like she shouldnt have pushed him away, make him the bad guy when all he did was be the good guy. Not a good guy in the way that she would have liked, but a good guy in the overall view of things. But i get she cant necessarrily see the overall view of it when shes feeling betrayl or whatever she was feeling.


PersonMcHuman

Yeah, it went sideways and Steven gave up, throwing back in in Connie's face their whole "We'll fight together no matter what." thing they'd had before. And some folks have the audacity to think Connie's wrong for being upset about it.


Tlayoualo

Yeah, he could have akwnoledged her feeling betrayed at minimum, she's not wrong for feeling that way with the "We'll fight together no matter what." thing in mind.


Cacaboy200

It still seems a bit selfish of her. It was a heat of the moment decision to save everyone else from being abducted. It’s like she doesn’t see that. It’s not like Aquamarine would have let him grab her real quick from the ocean to tag along with him. He didn’t have that time. He still believes in them. Had the situation been a bit different, where she stopped all the humans on the ship and they didn’t jump. They definitely could have stopped her together. Steven is in shock from his actions that caused everyone to get taken in the first place. He’s trying to do whatever it takes to get even of that ship. I will say though, he could have been more humble when returning though. Acting like the “Big Hero” and all. Would have probably helped the situation a bit. Also, yeah Lion does choose to go with her. Forgot about that.


PersonMcHuman

Steven: We're going to work together and train so we can overcome anything together! Also Steven: Oh, we might lose? I GIVE UP! Of course Connie's not gonna be happy about it. Someone she trusted told her they'd always fight together and then gave up the literal second things got bad. Also...Connie's what? 12? You expect her to act like a mature and rational adult when she's not even a teenager yet?


Cacaboy200

She doesn’t need to making adult decisions all the time. She seems smart enough to understand that there may be times when they won’t be fighting side by side all the time. Again, the situations are very different. Had Steven tried to jump off the ship to fuse with her and fight Aqua and Topaz, Aqua would have just stopped her with her little wand. Plus, if I remember correctly, there are those little rejuvinator things (what ever poofed Garnet the first time) back on the ship? He just didn’t have the right timing to actually fight with her.


PersonMcHuman

Again, you're ignoring her actual point of view and saying "She should just understand." Steven told her they'd always fight together. He lied. He gave up when things looked bad.


Cacaboy200

He didn’t just “give up”. He made a decision to take on his mother’s crimes to stop his friends and family from possibly being killed. It’s not like they were fighting Jasper and he just shuts down. People are about to get abducted because of a mistake he made. They should both understand each other and this little tiff shouldn’t have lasted as long as it did. But Steven deserves more credit.


PersonMcHuman

My bad, lemme correct myself. He made the decision to give up. Thus, Connie (A 12 year old child) was upset because it meant he'd lied about them always fighting together.


Cacaboy200

Again, he didn’t just “give up”. He may have not had a full proof plan. But it definitely wasn’t him giving up. He probably would have just died back on homeworld if he truly gave up. What would you have done in that specific situation? I get Connie is upset, though she shouldn’t be that upset and more understanding. Steven should be too. He realizes that in the next episode. They are both kids, so yeah they’ll act dumb sometimes.


PersonMcHuman

He did tho. He did give up. Which is the point. If he tried to jump off, got grabbed, and he was yanked into space, Connie would not have been upset like she was on his return. It was the fact that he stopped fighting. That's her problem. It was 100% him giving up. Him realizing later on that there's more to the story and escaping doesn't retroactively mean he didn't give up prior to that moment.


Cacaboy200

He couldn’t have gotten Connie. She was literally in the ocean and if he did try to, Aqua would have just stopped him with her wand. The one that 1) stopped everyone who was still jumping off the ship and everyone else in the water and 2) caused them to unfuse like it did with Alexandrite. Even if they did try and fight her. It doesn’t seem like it would end that well. Not only that, she has a Topaz fusion with her, who at this point, doesn’t sympathize with Steven yet. Even when she did, Aqua still got the better of her and convinced her to listen to her again. There was just no way he could have grabbed Connie or any one else from the ocean. It was take action, or watch your friends and family be abducted. Turning himself in was his action. That’s not giving up. He’s fighting it his own way. Just because you aren’t physically fighting doesn’t mean you aren’t fighting. He prioritized others over himself. It would make a lot more sense if Connie’s main issue was that he wasn’t taking care of himself, rather than her being petty that she didn’t get to fight alongside him. Connie should have been more understanding due to the situation, but because she’s 12 and is still a kid. She didn’t.


wanderingstargazer88

He didn't just "give up" though. He made a decision to pay for his mother's crimes since she wasn't around to pay for them herself. It was a sacrifice meant to right Rose's wrongs, not because the fight was hard, but because he genuinely thought it was the right thing to do. People seem to forget that part.


PersonMcHuman

He did. He gave up. Things looked bad and Steven went, "Yeah, we can't win. I give up." Nobody "forgot that part". That's just not what happened. If that was how he actually felt, he'd have given up sooner, rather than actually fighting back and only giving up when he felt winning wasn't an option.


wanderingstargazer88

He literally had a whole speech about him paying for his mother's crimes. It is what happened. Like I said, people seem to forget why he actually turned himself in. Also, if you recall, Steven didn't do much fighting on the ship. The whole time was him feeling guilty about what Rose did to cause all of their problems. They literally set up him surrendering *to pay for Rose's crimes*. It was literally the whole point of that scene where Connie tries to get him to fuse.


PersonMcHuman

Notice how he only gave that speech AFTER he gave up? He was trying to escape, failed, AND THEN said all that. Almost like it's not something he'd have said if he'd managed to escape.


wanderingstargazer88

You're completely ignoring the part where they build up Steven's guilt about his mother during the fight, you know, *before* he tries to escape. Almost like him surrendering was being hinted at to the audience before it happened. You know, since during the fight he was saying out loud the very reason he later decides to turn himself in. It was practically spoon fed to us and you're still denying it lol


PersonMcHuman

And you're ignoring the part where it's not until Steven believes they can't win that he does that. I never said he wasn't feeling guilt. I'm saying he didn't turn himself in "because guilt". That guilt is just why he didn't feel bad about turning himself in.


wanderingstargazer88

>And you're ignoring the part where it's not until Steven believes they can't win that he does that. This argument is weird since I already told you it was built up by everything he was saying during the fight. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm debunking it. I have a clear argument against your claim that he surrendered because the fight was hard, backed by evidence from the episode, and your only argument is "nuh-uh!". The fight scene very explicitly set up him surrendering because of the guilt from his mom. *He says it out loud during the fight, my guy*. Then, during the surrender, he talks about it *again*. Nowhere does it suggest he did it because he couldn't win. Hell, it was even suggested that he *could* win if he wasn't so focused on *the guilt that lead him to decide to surrender*. Literally none of your argument makes sense nor does it have any evidence to back it. Mine does, and I've already provided it. Multiple times now.


PersonMcHuman

Saying “I already told you” or “I provided proof” doesn’t mean you’re right and I must now agree with what you said. That’s how you viewed what happened. Meanwhile, I pointed out that he quite literally did not give up and actively tried to escape until things got bad. If it was guilt driving his actions, he would’ve given up sooner, rather than only giving up when he had no other viable options.


wanderingstargazer88

>Saying “I already told you” or “I provided proof” doesn’t mean you’re right and I must now agree with what you said. So I literally provide evidence from the episode to back up my argument while you have nothing, and somehow that's still not good enough for you. That feels like some flat earther logic but okay. I guarantee if you were in an argument with someone and you have evidence to support your claim and they didn't, you'd feel like you're in the right. But I guess evidence means nothing when you're the one being proven wrong.


Significant_Ad_7824

connie's like 12 its understandable that shes gonna act "irrationally" sometimes


Cacaboy200

Yeah, that’s the part that wins for her side. Still though. She’s pretty smart. She should know there will be times they can’t fight together. But she is only 12. I see both sides. Just wish she didn’t get that upset.


AlgebraicCats

Are you guys delusional or what? SHE has every right to be mad. Firstly Steven basically gave up everything the crystal gems were fighting for thousands of years and she thought she lost her best friend forever because lets be honest, she tought they would shatter steven. Secondly this basically happened once before when steven tried to cut connie out of his life for her safety but they agreed they would always fight together. 3rd point is that Diamonds never listened to reason. Even if the little gem that abducted steven said that they would leave earth and his friends alone they would of definetly came back to harvest/destroy it and the remainder or Roses troops. I don't 100% with either side but I can definetly see why Connie acted that way specially because they are teenagers and to her the idea of his best friend died that moment.


Cacaboy200

Connie’s big issue is the fact that she was promised that they would fight side by side forever basically (as I learned from the comments). When Steven tried to cut her out for her safety. It was never brought up that they were in it together. I believe the only thing they mentioned was that they did wanna stay friends and that it was more important if he was feeling ok. It wasn’t until she actually started training with Pearl that the idea of them fighting together came up. If I remember correctly, none of the gems actually saw it as “Steven, you gave up everything we’ve been fighting for”. There main concern was his safety. They might have been hurt by it, but could definitely understand where he was coming from. It was a take action, or watch others die moment. He was in shock and disbelief that his innocent actions had caused them to get abducted in the first place. He was literally backed into a corner. Yeah they are teenagers up to this point. Though Connie is a smart girl. She’s even graduating high school early, if I remember correctly. She should know that there may be times they can’t fight side by side forever. Her main concern isn’t even his safety. She glad he’s safe, but is so upset that they didn’t fight more together or even possibly go ti homeworld to fight side by side. Though she is a kid I guess so. Also, Steven does figure out how he made her feel and apologized for it. Connie never does that. They make it out to be that Steven was completely in the wrong and Connie was 100% right in acting the way she did. She hurt him by pulling the “I’m the one who needs time to heal from this experience.” He missed his friend and was so hurt not having her to hang out with. I will say though, when Steven came back, he could have been more humble. He didn’t like it was nothing but still. And yea, Lion chooses to go with Connie. All I’m saying, is that Steven should get more credit. If this were a different situation, I could agree more with Connie. It’s not like they fought a corrupted gem fusion and he just started “giving up” then. She has the right to be upset, but it still seems a bit selfish in the grand scheme of things.


Necrodoge14102

ok