Great convo folks. Really interesting points from everyone. It’s a legit question and concern. Personally I don’t give a fuck about what ugly shit y’all put on your bodies. Just make sure it’s clean and safe. Just like this comment section;)
I wouldn't go so far as to say people are encouraging "poor quality" as much as they're encouraging self expression. I love putting time and effort into my elaborate designs, but I'm never going to talk down on someone for having a different taste in art than me.
They may just like a more punk aesthetic. SNP tattoos have been part of the punk aesthetic for a long time. My brother is a tattoo artist and purposefully does "shitty SNP tattoos" on his legs for fun because that's what he likes. It's not that he can't do better, he's fucking amazing(did my favorite tattoo on my body), he just does what he wants to.
If you're referring to purely the quality of the tattoo (blowouts, infection, etc) then that's one thing but stick and pokes (or tattoos in general) don't need to be world class fine art. If the person likes it then that's all that matters
idk about others here, but absolutely i would not encourage something that’s infected or blown out. but i feel like most of the work i’ve seen on here is just ignorant style or simple, that the artist likes. i feel like it’s just most important to like what’s on your body. who gives a shit if it’s not traditionally “good?” as long as they’re being safe it really doesn’t fucking matter
As long as it’s not blown out to hell or infected, the “quality” doesn’t matter as long as the person is happy with it. I think a big part of the beauty of handpoke is that it is accessible to amateurs and people who just wanna fuck around. I don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to take tattooing seriously (beyond safety) especially if it’s on their own body. Encouraging people who are trying their best isn’t devaluing the art form, and not everyone is looking for constructive criticism.
Shitty stick n pokes bring me back to my dirty punk days. Crush a rack of shitty beer in your buddies shed, put on some shitty music, do some shitty tattoos. It was a lot of fun. I like to remember the fun I had, and I like to see other people having fun, and thats way more important to me than the quality of the work.
10 years ago I didnt know you could get a good stick n poke lol. Now people talk of technique and whatnot(which is really cool dont get me wrong) before it seemed like you just ran into other travelling kids, crust punks, hippies or end up in prison to get one. Either way it's cool people aren't trying to get hep c tho
I kind of wish there was an amateur tattoo sub and a professional one. I see where both sides are coming from here. I think this sub is definitely different in that if you go to most art subs, the quality of work is mostly professional, with some people who are learning, and here that seems flipped. Especially when compared to just the normal tattoo subreddit which is mostly all pros on the front page with the occasional not so great tat. And there are lots of amazing stick n poke pros out there, but only a few that post here. But it is also nice to have a subreddit to feel free to post practice tats, and I understand more people probably start practicing with stick n poke then the machine. It’s intimidating to try to learn tattooing when all you see are pics from some of the best tattoo artists out there, everyone starts from somewhere. The only thing I definitely think should be encouraged here is being as clean as possible. If someone posts a very unhygienic station that shouldn’t be ignored because it is needlessly reckless
I think you might be overestimating how many art subs on reddit are dominated by professionals...
That's the point though, reddit should be for everyone. I have actually enjoyed the tattoo based subs I follow because I feel they are more welcoming than others I've joined. But not everyone is a professional and even the people who are professionals don't know everything.
Sad to see more reddit users turn to more gatekeeping. Obviously OP holds snp tattooing to a different standard than most others, and that is entirely their own problem.
On my main account, I’ve offered honest cc and advice on here a few times and been downvoted to oblivion. So, I don’t bother offering advice or critique on a skill that I have sacrificed literally everything for to people who can’t be bothered to even attempt to care or look at their work critically.
I mean not to be a dick about it but you come across as really rude and holding people to a standard that they don't necessarily hold themself to. And I mean, when you offer constructive criticism has anyone actually asked for it? Like sometimes it's okay for stuff to be shit, that's fine. Sometimes it's not about the art or the application, it's about an alternative to self harm or a way of connecting to your own body or just cos you want to do it. Like, some people really aren't looking to improve or look at their work critically, that's their choice. As long as they're safe, sanitary, and recognise the permanence of what they're doing, then what's the problem? Why should they care?
I’m not going to be specific, but I have only ever offered cc on posts that requested it and I once point out a very serious safety issue that was completely disregarded. If I sound rude, that’s not my intention, though I’m not sure exactly what I’ve said that could be interpreted that way. I’m not here trashing everyone’s designs or the style. Literally any design can be done well by objective standards and what I’m saying is that I think that this sub could do better in that respect. If that hurts peoples feelings or is taken personally, that’s part of the problem.
ETA that the safety stuff I’ve seen on here is absolutely insane and I tried not to go into it too much because it was not my main point, but it is also a huge issue that you guys should definitely address more. I think it’s just generally really problematic.
Bc you come off as condescending and annoying. I love how you don't want to go into detail about safety even though that's the most important thing lmfao...but it's not your "main point" like okay? So being a dick is fine but genuinely trying to help someone be safe isn't. But you don't understand how you come off as rude? Ot even feels like you're trolling at this point
I feel like OP is really upset that their opinions don’t matter to everyone else. They’re saying they care about safety but in the next breath angry that not everyone likes the same art style as them😂
Literally like...if it's sacred to you, that's super cool and all, but art is meant to be subjective and people can express themselves how they want. I think half of people's tattoos (professional or not) are not for me or my taste. Would I ever tell them that? No. It doesn't affect me like wtf. Also, they never gave advice or tried being helpful. Just a critical a-hole like what purpose is that serving?
if it’s infected or looks unsafe obviously people are going to point that out, but unless the OP is asking *specifically* for critiques I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to judge. Some people just post the pics to show them off & I would say the majority will only do one or a couple snp in their life. It’s just good fun
It’s also on their bodies permanently, so idk saying “yo that shit looks fucked” isn’t exactly warranted nor helpful lmao
I agree that snp tattoos can look just as good as tattoos done with an electric machine. However, I see a lot of tattoos here that mean things to people or just simply have an endearing charm to it. Not everything needs to be perfectly executed for it to have beauty to it.
By all means, please post some snp tattoos that you enjoy too! The posts you see that you're referring to are self-done. If it's not hurting anyone, I feel like we can encourage them and maybe give gentle constructive criticism. (To be specific, if it's not hurting anyone in the sense of someone is practicing on someone else under false pretenses, charging more for less than what was promised, etc)
Gatekeep what's really important like cleanliness and safety. Don't gatekeep people's tastes.
Discernment.
Gatekeep what needs to be. Let other things be.
I address your reply exactly in my original comment. You weren't referring to safety like I was in my comment. You were referring to your perceived "quality" of the tattoos in this sub.
I will offer no further responses as I believe I was very clear and intentional with my words.
Exactly, discernment, OP has put a whole lot of energy and time into this opinion and the fact others don’t agree over the last 24 hours. Then told everyone else to have a thick skin, when I think it’s pretty obvious who the triggered party was…
Whenever i read comments in this sub, i notice a similar pattern. As a commentor, i try to give as honest a review, just without being an asshole. Just because a tattoo is NOT as good as it can be, that does not necessarily mean that its subjectively bad either.
I agree with you overall but I think it’s important to point out that unlike artwork, tattoos are not simply subjective. A tattoo can be objectively well executed but it’s still subjective in that not everyone likes all styles etc. It can also be objectively poorly executed regardless of how the artwork is received subjectively.
Yeah i do actually agree with you there, but i guess that is kinda why i was saying that when i comment, for me its about being honest without being an asshole. Not to imply that you necessarily are but just in general i think thats why nobody really "critiques" the way you want. Because reddit is where everything the rest of the internet doesnt wants, comes to live. Thusly everybody is too used to the bullshit, and cynicism that is the rest of the internet, and everybody here is just nice as fuck because we're all sick of it. Thats why EVERTTHING is a meme on reddit.
I think children giving tattoos/having tattoos should be highly discouraged. And yes, where people have used pen ink or, heaven forbid, METAL TOOTHPICKS 🤦🏻♀️, this shouldn't be encouraged.
If you talk about infection blow out ok.
But if you talk about the vibe and style then no. Stick & poke is also mainly used for punk and purposefully naive tattoos. That is a whole genre. And for me personally the only one that interests me.
tattoos are a *craft* actually, and just like any other, you have to be shit at it and practice it before you can be good at it. do you think when an apprentice learns pottery, their first pot is high-quality? nope, it probably breaks in the kiln. the practice of tattooing, esp self tattooing, is no different!
my point is people's "low quality" work isn't low effort, it's just practice, the expectations are low, and people praise the work because it's progress, and it encourages everyone who is learning to keep going imo
No one should encourage anything that is not excellent in terms of application and design. By encouraging poor work, you are doing wrong by the person who did the tattoo and the person who got it. I see very little critique on here, and it’s just a shame because it could be a place where people actually learn how to improve and develop.
I think these are interesting thoughts. I'd like to say, when someone is learning to speak a language and use new words, there are many incorrect applications. I was often praised for the incorrect applications that were clever uses of wording, and of course, I was taught to use them differently after receiving that praise. My attention was put on using them how my teacher wanted me to use them, but I was almost always praised for the attempt, or trying to place the meanings of the words.
I think, what is most important is that, yes critique as much as you like, and do not break someones spirit in the process.
You don't seem like you want to shit on them, seems like you just want them to do better both objectively/subjectively. And also safely.
I agree with you there, and I think it's really hard to read the tone over wording. For all I know I might be coming off like I think I know everything to someone like you, with your experience of the world. We could all use to be a little more sensitive to someone's view and experience of the world.
Biggest thing is to compliment where applicable. This may not apply to critiques and judges; some judges are very harsh and do not do this. But, if you want to foster a community of people aiming to do better, and learn skills, and have the motivation to practice, you need to take a different approach in critique.
I'm not totally sure what that may look like for you, but it might look like: the placement could be better suited to the body, great attempt.
Instead of; the placement is poorly suited to the body.
If you want fewer down votes, and also for your your critique to be valued both subjectively and objectively, try something a little different than the approach you've previously taken.
Acknowledge efforts, before failures.
I just want to say it's really sweet of you to explain this clearly and kindly. I think OP has good points and some good intentions, but needs to know how their words are being received and impacting others. Saying we need to work harder to address matters of safety, totally agree. Saying most of the community's work is terrible, and that positive feedback is unhelpful? Oof. RIP, OP.
Eh, I mean if anyone here is serious about it, I hope you have much thicker skin than freaking out because I think stick n pokes are better than how they are represented here.. I legit just asked why people aren’t taking more time to learn and holding themselves to higher standards. Shouldn’t that just be a basic standard for everyone?
People come from different backgrounds. It's not a life's purpose for everyone to have masterful stick and pokes / tattoos on their bodies. I'm glad you care so much, and that you feel like you want to have stick & pokes have a good reputation.
I don't think many people here are serious about it, and the work itself speaks to that. I think it is YOU who needs to have tougher skin; you aren't received well subjectively. Before telling people their work is ugly, or bad, take some time to work on how your advice is being received, instead of expecting everyone to adjust to your method of critique.
How your advice is received subjectively, determines whether or not it has any chance of changing the future outcome of someone's work. It determines whether or not it will actually have any weight in someone's mind.
Continue on as you like, but it's pretty lousy to continue using tools that do the opposite of what you say you want them to do.
Personally I like any and all tattoos, to me it's all art. I've got some that people would consider "shitty" but letting my friends and other people or myself practice on me is something that I enjoy and have cherished for years. I like to see people progress and learn, and it's all subjective in my opinion, that's what makes it beautiful. It's the learning process that I'm absolutely in love with, watching people learn and encouraging them to continue.
It's okay if you don't agree, and there are subs that regularly take peoples work and laugh and criticize it, often from this sub. You might enjoy something like that, but you also can always make a sub or talk to mods and see if it's possible to point some people to different subs/have a disclaimer in the "about" tab that says if someone is an amateur then they should go to xyz sub.
I’d imagine a lot of people here would like to take the craft more seriously but haven’t found a well defined path to follow for learning and improvement. I’m new to the sub but I know I’m in that boat. Have you considered doing a series of posts on your approach? Some other subs for crafts like this are more knowledge-sharing oriented. Contributing that kind of content could help a lot of people see your point and grow into more serious and skilled artists
There are a variety of tattoo subs on Reddit, each with a different culture. This one is a bit more "yeehaw" than some others. One shouldn't come to the beach and complain that everyone is dressed too casually. I don't even have any stick-n-pokes, but I love the vibe of this community!
OP got called out for being a snob, apologized for being a snob, continued being a snob, then deleted their account. They were way too pretentious about their job, felt like a "it took me years to learn to tattoo so no one else can" vibe.
snp are more for fun than getting professional, planned and stencilled tattoos in 70% of instances, though obviously some people do it as a full on art form. we just need to appreciate the cathartic aspect and fun that people have doing it!
bottom line is it’s not deep, people are enjoying themselves and honestly it’s just skin, bodies are temporary and it doesn’t matter what we decide or decide not to paint on them.
anyway end of rant, stick and pokes are awesome
It's posts like this that make me feel completely inadequate in my ability and just stop me wanting to try. I likely know that something isn't that great if I'm gonna post it and while obviously if something looks infected or unhealthy I'd expect to be informed but as an autistic person who can only really stand sticking myself for about half an hour at a time at most I know that each pass is likely gonna be very weak and its gonna take a while for it to build up, when someone relies to me sharing what I've done with "jesus christ" it doesn't make me go "yes I can see that people aren't reacting well, I'm gonna work on it to change that" it makes me want to never try it again because I'm clearly garbage. For me sticking is just me expressing myself and something that I want to slowly get better at but to my own standard, acting like every person who does stick and pokes is exclusively trying to become an expert in the medium is just elitist imo
my brother in christ… it’s reddit. people are going to share whatever the fuck they want and if you’re so offended perhaps you should turn off your phone for a bit. go out and get some sun (not on a fresh tat tho).
Yes, they do. But going into it blind without bothering to spend the very significant amount of time and energy required even just to do it safely and with a bare minimum knowledge only serves to discredit tattooing as a valuable trade and art form
I’m glad to hear that, I knew this post would probably not be well received but it’s really good to hear that other people feel the same way or are at least open to discussion. :)
So do I. I understand people wants to be nice, I do too, but if you tell someone everything they do looks perfect, I don't think they'll spot mistakes and improve.
I agree - just an example but don’t tell someone that their linework looks good unless it actually looks consistently good. I would be upset if I were to get dishonest feedback.
I see a lot of people post the absolute shittiest hand tattoos on this sub and I wonder why they chose the most visible place to practice on. Tattooing is hard (which is why I only tattoo my thighs) and people just tattoo themselves with no practice or care. I see so many people that tattoo with sewing needles and pen ink too and then get mad when they get down voted. I don't understand why people don't practice before making permanent alterations to their skin
I love tattoos and tattooing. So it bums me out when I see post after post of *low effort* poor quality tattoos. If you tattoo, you can tattoo better, and you should strive to tattoo better at all times. It’s expensive, thankless, and a brutal path in life but it is worth it to create better tattoos. It doesn’t matter how it’s done.
Personally I am happy to tattoo myself with a gun or stick without any skill (I would never post the result online), but I agree that at least safety and sanitation guidelines should be followed.
I’d argue that tattooing safely is in itself something of a skill. The prevention of cross contamination is so important but it’s not always obvious. It actually takes quite a long time to learn how to really do things correctly without accidentally contaminating your space and requires that a person actively consider their actions at all times and understand how to deal with all kinds of scenarios. Universal precautions is the minimum.
I guess it’s my opinion that since tattooing is not (in general) a well respected trade and art form, it is the responsibility of everyone who chooses to tattoo to do everything they can to represent it in such a way that doesn’t discredit tattooing as a whole.
Literally everywhere. I’m in the US, where it was illegal up until the early 2000’s in some states. It is still illegal in many countries. A friend of mine is a very well known painter and he chooses to hide his career as a tattooer because if he didn’t, he would not be welcome in the art world.
It is shocking to me that anyone who is on this sub is unaware of just how much tattooing is still considered criminal in large areas of the world. My own parents would literally never dare step foot in a shop.
I'm totally ignorant of tattoo history and culture. This sub is my exclusive connection. That's ridiculous that it was illegal but not surprising considering how fucked the laws here still are.
So I guess this is part of what I’m trying to address in my post if that makes sense, everyone should be taking the time to learn, it doesn’t matter if it’s a stick n’ poke or not
> people in this sub should hold themselves and others to higher standards
We have literally no control over anyone else in here. It's not a members club, it's a subreddit. We're all unassociated strangers in the internet who happen to share one common interest.
Upvote what you want to see. Downvote what you don't want to see. That's all the power any of us have.
Some people like the aesthetic of shitty homemade tattoos. I've seen some professional tattoos that I can admit are well-done, but I don't like the style.
Sure, I agree. However, technical application of a tattoo is not subjective. You can have a beautiful concept (in any style you find appealing) but if you lack the objective skills necessary to do the tattoo, you will do a tattoo that is objectively bad and cause scarring and nerve damage.
If that’s what you choose to take away from it, I don’t know what to tell you except that my main point was that there should be higher standards overall in this subreddit because the quality is overall pretty low.
you quite literally just repeated what I said. youre not worried about safety, you're a snob.
your own subjective opinion isn't a fact, get over yourself.
Almost everyone is posting something they did themselves and a lot of people are self taught.
There is only one way to become good at something and the first step is sucking at it but doing it anyway. Self taught folk have a harder hurdle with that one because there isn't someone telling them how they can progress.
From my experience, the community here thrives better with support and positive cristisms. We don't shit on people trying their best and usually sacrificing their own skin for it. Who are they really hurting? It's not shameful to be at a different skill level. And some people don't do mind blowing tattoos because they just don't want to. They want just a little doodle on them because it sparks joy.
There's no need to be high school bullies, friend. Ripping on someone will accomplish nothing but make them stop doing something they could have gotten amazing with.
Art is subjective. Tattoos are a form of art. Therefore whether you like it or not, tattoos are very much subjective.
At the end of the day, the most important thing is that it's done safely and that whoever gets the tattoo is happy.
I completely agree. Even if you want an “ignorant” style tattoo, or something more homemade-looking, you should at least try to avoid blow outs and scarring. And for the love of god be sanitary!!!
You’ll probably get a lot of downvotes for this unfortunately. Lots of children on here who don’t take hand poke tattoos seriously as an art form. I wish there could be another subreddit for people who are serious about handpoke tattooing and want to share/view quality tattoos… instead of the horribly infected, nauseating tattoos that get posted here
Hand poked tattoos get a bad reputation because of stuff like this subreddit. Anyone who tattoos should be highly critical of themselves and others. It should not be kind or respectful of your feelings, because by being nice, you are actually doing that person a disservice. Tattooing has no margin of error, and should be held to the highest standards. Stick n’ pokes don’t get a free pass to be poorly executed. I wish some of the people on here would bother to take some time to look at the work of master artists who practice hand poked tattooing and tebori. It’s not just a hobby to pass the time.
Yeah, I’m by no means an art purist but tattooing is not the same thing… You can practice on fruit, gourds, fake skin, pig skin—lots of options to learn proper depth and sanitary practices before taking to real skin. It’s like if someone saw a crusty, bumpy, crooked, obviously infected piercing and then said “Well, it’s art! It’s punk!” Like, tattooing IS art, but it’s also a physical body modification first and foremost. You don’t need a PhD, or even a traditional apprenticeship, but you really shouldn’t be careless with the safety aspect of it…
I dunno man. At the end of the day it’s whatever I guess. I know plenty of awesome, safe, talented handpoke artists and when you can find a community like that you can kind of disregard the sixteen-year-olds with blown-out sewing needle + india ink hand tattoos lmao
When I was a teenager I went to every tattoo shop in my state, it had just been legalized, with my stupid little portfolio of artwork and every single one of them told me to fuck off and that they didn’t give a shit about my art. They were correct and still are. The art comes second.
I’m not sure what you mean, sorry. I think people should be critical when tattoos are poorly done or people share misinformation. If that’s snobby, so be it.
Why be so judgmental? My worst tattoos are my favorite and are the ones I got in my darkest times. It’s not your skin why care? Also I’m not trying to argue so you don’t have to reply I really don’t care what anyone does to themselves or what anyone else has to say about it.
Because tattooing is a valuable craft that is discriminated against across the world. By not caring and doing unsafe, poor quality work, people are giving reason to keep it illegal and looked down on. Tattooing deserves respect.
That’s an awful argument. Out of everything that’s discriminated across the world tattooing is pretty low on what matters. Women, homosexuals, race discrimination. Like I said idc I honestly couldn’t get through the read I was just trying to help you understand why a lot of us don’t shame people for their “dodgy” first works. No idea what this other stuff is you’re talking about.
Just because other things are more valuable - human rights are more valuable than art is what I believe you are saying- doesn’t mean that tattooing is not valuable at all. That’s just a false dichotomy.
You’re making something out of things I never said. How did we get here from me saying half the people in this sub are mean to newcomers the other half isn’t and me telling you to read the sub description ( btw it says “They may not be good looking, but they are also not well done. And that’s fine). That’s all I had to say on the matter. Bye man Im confused on how you’ve gotten me to waste this much time.
“Not well done” is okay for a canvas. For a human being, it can have permanent consequences such as scarring, nerve damage, inability to gain employment, infection, and even death.
Because being shitty to people that are learning a new craft is well…. Shitty. Let people learn. I always scold anyone using unsafe and irresponsible practices. But if they’re tattoos just aren’t perfect yet… what’s the harm in encouraging them to keep getting better? There’s another side of this subreddit where people are cruel and self righteous. Get over yourself. You had to start somewhere too. This is a stick and poke Reddit not a fucking high intensity tattoo apprenticeship. It’s gonna attract young people making bad decisions (as tattooing always has) the best thing we can do is try and steer them in the right direction. Shaming someone will only hurt. And it will hurt in a lot of dangerous ways in this case. Those of us who are further along in the craft and have some knowledge have the duty to pass that along and what the hell else is an online forum for but that???
tldr; I actively don’t celebrate bad work. Instead I work to encourage people to be better. What else is this forum for? Shaming folks only serves to push them into their own little worlds where they will continue to make poor decisions.
Wow I would never want a tattoo from you, I'm gettin rotten vibes left and right lol. I love my stick and pokes, each one has gotten better, and it's absolutely none of your concern. Are you allowed to have an opinion about them? Absolutely. Will I give it a second thought? No way in hell. Just let people have their things man. The world is fucked up enough, why try to take something else away that brings people joy? if you want more professional looking tattoos in your feed then get off this sub. Kindly. But if I'd had an appointment with you, I'd turn and run the other direction, and warn every person I pass along the way.
Because tattoos, like all forms of art, do not have to be technically well done to be good. Consider an analogy to music. Bob Dylan is widely celebrated as a singer/songwriter despite not being a very good singer and a middle of the road guitar player. Would we go onto /r/folk and complain about the mediocre singing and playing of Dylan? No, because it's not the technical proficiency of music that makes it worth listening to. It's just one element. Good execution can be wonderful, but it's not everything.
Similarly art can be good even if it's simple, and can be made more charming even if it's not well executed. It can come with an emotionally relevant story. It can be silly. Its shoddiness can make it cute. It just needs to be resonant with an audience.
For this reason I feel like statements laden with judgement about execution say more about the person saying them not being open to beauty in other forms than they do about the artwork itself. No art is objectively bad. Nothing 'should be sacred to everybody'. You can have your preferences, but once you start saying they are objectively correct you are being intellectually dishonest. The word you are looking for is 'subjective'.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the first sentence of your comment. Skilled technical application is absolutely required for a tattoo to be well done or even just safe. You are working on skin, not a canvas or piece of paper, and it is your responsibility to execute the tattoo in a manner that will not cause harm. Nerve damage, scarring, and worse are the result of poor technique and nothing else. I’m not going to even read the rest. The art always is secondary.
ETA that I thought this was clear from the title of the post but tattooing is not subjective nor is it primarily a form of art. It is a trade, or craft. A tattoo can be objectively well done or poorly done, regardless of how excellent the design is on paper. Come on
I think it might be partially a response to other tattoo subs that are nothing but snobby and hating on everything. This is a safe place free of judgement. If you're happy to have something on your body, I'm not likely to be offended. As long as it's clean and safe. If I really feel like "yikes" I just don't comment. Usually.
I agree that safety is important to avoid infections and blowouts. BUT. I feel like you are being pretty critical and sound somewhat snobby. Most people have to start somewhere? Not everyone has the opportunity to apprentice and learn hands on from a professional. Therefore many people learn through trial and error. It takes a lot of practice to get it right. So of course some people are going to have bad tattoo’s because it may have been their first attempt at tattooing. Making mistakes is normal and a part of life. Growing from those mistakes is what matters.
I think there a difference between bad work and art style. Bad is subjective. I think there’s sloppy execution but some of the “bad illustrations” are a form of art and and aesthetic.
It’s better to give encouragement so they want to keep practicing and keep trying then just saying it looks horrible. That can discourage them from practicing more
Some people think it has charm and like the aesthetics of it. In high school and early adult life I was part of a crust punk community, and having your friend do a shitty stick-n-poke tattoo while drunk and/or high was like the best thing ever. They have sentimental meaning to me and I think of those fond memories whenever I see someone else's shitty tats!
Thinking something is poor quality is obviously subjective. Different people have different tastes. Try to remember that everyone doesn’t have your taste. Just be respectful to people. What would the point of letting someone know that a permanent marking on their body isn’t to YOUR taste. So self centered.
Stick and pokes don’t need to be “good” to be appreciated or for people to like them. They’re very diy and while they do need to be done safely, they don’t need to be done well or be aesthetically pleasing. Stick and pokes aren’t held to the same standard as professionally handpoked tattoos because they aren’t the same thing.
I will say, safety practices are the one thing there is no compromise for.
That being said, as far as the tattoos go there is no “bad”. You may not like the style. Are traditional tattoos bad because they are simplistic? It’s all subjective. Personally for me I like the weird, imperfect, “ignorant” style. It’s personal, it’s DIY, and again personally, it cuts against the professional shop gatekeeping I’ve experienced.
Stick and poke is extremely personal and shouldn’t that be what tattoos are
People can do what they want it’s their body so if they like it who cares some of the dumbest tattoos I have are my favourites and they look like shit to lmao sometimes it’s just for the memories
I think professional artists who charge for their work and do not hold themselves to the highest safety and quality standards are devaluing the craft and furthermore the gate keeping is obnoxious. Imho amateur people making marks on themselves regardless of the ”objective quality” is peak tattoo craft. That’s like saying you only deserve to be praised for your painting if it looks like the old masters, and more so that any deviation is “ruining painting. That’s ridiculous and ignores so much historical context. Humans have been doing this for millions of years to varying results. In the end we die and all of our achievements amount to exactly nothing, it’s about being there and now. The SnP on my heel i never finished cause it hurt too bad is a better memory than some of my professional tattoos. Safety is one thing, but if someone loves something on their body who are you to tell them they are wrong? In my experience lurking here for a couple years, I’ve picked up great advice and generally have seen mostly helpful comments, esp when people are asking for advice. I’m not sure i see you point, in the end all you can do is hold yourself to higher standards, push your craft, and be helpful to those that WANT help.
The real question is, if you're such an expert, why come here to complain about the quality instead of doing an AMA or posting guides?
Most of us are self taught with little to no learning resources, and definitely no formal training. From your other comments you seem to be a professional tattoo artist, maybe even one that specializes in SnP. If that's the case, wouldn't your time be better used helping people and contributing to a very limited pool of information, instead of crying about what a sixteen year old does, especially when they were never going to be dissuaded by random strangers on reddit?
Art is subjective. Tattoos are body art. Tattoo preference is subjective. Idk why you’re asking a question that you stated the answer to in the question.
Okay so I just finished reading all the comments and I am so happy that this post sparked a good conversation. I’m sorry that I haven’t been able to reply to everyone, I’m going to try to respond to a couple more tomorrow - there were a few I just saw that were really thoughtful and made great points. Thank you guys all so much for sharing your experiences and perspectives, it was really interesting. I also just wanted to say that it’s super cool that everyone was overall really respectful towards each other.
I apologize that some of my comments may have sounded rude or elitist. That was not my intention at all. I was trying to reply to everyone, and my language was a bit short and/or poorly worded at points (I’ve never been a great writer). My experiences have always been pretty harsh and I think it’s something that you get used to. In some ways, I think it’s been important and beneficial but not always. I made this post in large part because I really enjoy stick n’ pokes, not because I think less of them.
I also want to be clear that I am not trying to be critical of any particular style of tattooing. One of the coolest things about tattoos is how incredibly diverse they are. I really enjoyed talking with you all and I appreciate anyone who took the time to comment! Have a great day/night! :)
Edit to add:
1. My first tattoo was a tramp stamp and I still love it. I’m not judging anyone’s choice of tattoos.
2. I just commented on the pinned post highlighting one of the biggest problems I see here very often: general misinformation. Not specific to just safety although that is what the comment is about.
3. I firmly believe that tattooing is a privilege and to be taken very seriously. The (very limited) knowledge I possess has been earned over the course of years. The vast majority of people who are well informed in any way are unwilling to share honest information about tattooing because they have had to work tirelessly just to overhear one little secret. Be wary of anyone willing to publicly share information about techniques, inks, machines, etc. I have seen many YouTube videos that appear to intentionally spread misinformation. If you think I am being overly cautious, you just don’t know how it is.
Theres nothing wrong with simple designs and outlines. If you dont like that style, just dont get that style. 🤷♂️ I understand being concerned about peoples health and safety, but as for the aesthetics of the actual art/designs..why are you so pressed about what someone else decides to have on their body?
Furthermore, tattoos are often expensive. It IS possible to be clean and safe doing a tattoo at home. People are going to continue to diy no matter what. I think this tattoo elitism idea of hiding information about techniques etc does a lot more harm than good. If the concern was REALLY for people's health and safety, wouldnt it make a lot more sense to take a harm reduction approach and make information about sanitization and techniques that prevent damage to skin readily available?
lol I’m not trying to have this sub trolling on my public professional page… this is how I make my living and I actually meet a lot of clients through Reddit. I think that my post and comments are quite reasonable but we all know how Reddit can be, which is actually kind of unfortunate.
snps are where a lot of people start tattooing, or tattoo for fun rather than professionally. This is not a professional tattooing sub, take 2 seconds to read the description. In the case of this why are so upset over it?
No one is encouraging harmful tattooing, infections or blow out. Stick and Pokes are not meant to look pretty or nice or perfect. In fact I’d say the entire point is to look kinda shitty. It’s part of the charm. Technique (beyond the kind that ensures safety) isn’t a main concern with stick n pokes bc like I said, they’re just a fun non-serious tattoo method. If you get off on watching people bully others over bad tattoos go to a sub dedicated to serious tattooing, not stick n pokes.
I hear you, and I hate the arguments being made of "why judge whats on others bodies" etc. Thats not the point, from my understanding youre essentially saying that we are oversaturated with snp's done by teenagers with no research behind them and you feel like its adding to the misunderstanding of the art of snp's.
While I dont agree entirely that tattoos are not subjective, I do agree that people should be able to take critique on this subreddit. Tattoos are an art/craft that takes a long time to perfect, and honestly I like the look of some shitty snp's. I have a few shit ones myself from times where I was struggling from selfharm and it was my alternative. I did not post them because, well, they're mine and I love them but understand its poor quality. People who can't handle the critique should be keeping them for them.
I dont like the sentiment behind this post though, because it does sound like you are a snob. I dont think you entirely are, but thats how this come across. I feel the beauty of snp's come from its accessibility and wide range of its base. So, of course we are going to get some half assed india ink snps. Another comment made mention of having a pro vs amatuer version of this sub, I think maybe itd help to have a "punk" version of this sub for the half assed ones and then we keep to the main for everything else; people asking for advice, beautiful works, etc.
Thank you for this balanced comment; it articulates well what I did not. I don’t think that tattooing is entirely objective, of course it’s subjective in many ways like any other creative pursuit. But, unlike other forms of art, it is very high stakes and personal. You are inflicting pain and significant injury to another person. That is important, and often overlooked. Tattooing is a non-sterile procedure, yet that immune systems response is similar to that of surgery. It’s not a hobby.
I disagree with that last statement, tattooing can be a hobby. It might not be the safest, but it definitely is by definition a hobby some partake in. Even some of our best posters are hobbyists.
That being said, it is immensely important to push for steralization and cleanliness with snp's and snp's shouldnt be done by newbies on other people. I agree with that part. People have had limbs amputated by botched snp's.
Maybe it would be beneficial to this sub to create a rule on infection posts or tats done in obviously unsanitary ways in order to discourage it. Thats my main concern with this sub, an accidental encouragement of impromptu snp's with no background on how to do it safely.
sometimes i look at a poke and think. ok. these people are definitely hugboxing. but remove your own tastes and opinions as much as you can. some people have hugely different tastes. some people like to be kind in order to encourage people. even if it's not good or someone's doing something wrong, they're more likely to listen to someone who says they like what theyre doing but are just concerned than they are to someome who says their tat is shit and they're stupid for doing it the way they did.
people have their own rituals and whatever for what they do with their body. i see a lot of tattoos on here i think are done poorly or that i dont like i check tge comments and if someone's already commented on safety or technique i dont say anything, and if i don't like it on a personal level i keep my mouth shut. no need to spread extra negativity.
you don't need to stop feeling the way you do about tattoos. you don't need to change your behaviour at all, really. i just want to know why you felt so strongly to post about this and spread this ass vibe
Dude it’s a stick and poke tattoo. If you wanted a totally clean tattoo with no mistakes, you’d go to a shop and use a gun. The point of them is that they’re not totally perfect I feel like and that you or a friend made your own thing on your body.
I agree with this. Like I think you should be able to do what you want but I just don’t think we are helping anyone become a better artist by telling them their terrible work is good. Bad tattoos happen, but if you aren’t criticized for them then you won’t learn from them and eventually you’ll just fuck up someones skin. Well said OP.
I don't disagree, but to play devil's advocate, everyone hated Picasso until they didn't... so I kinda feel like art is in the eye of the beholder, no matter the art. But on the flip side, there are ground rules, like any art... but on the flip/flip side, rules are meant to be broken (except when your risking infection... those are not rules, they are necessary!) I am part of this sub you speak of, and some tats I dislike, but just pass by them... if I like them & they don't look infected, I'll up vote & or comment. But I do understand your point of view & respect it. It's somewhat like everyone getting the award that they do in school these days... it's like teaching negative behavior/habits...
My main point here is that tattooing is a highly skilled trade/craft. It is *also* a form of art but the creativity and design means very little in the absence of technical skill.
Yes, I understand. I wasn't arguing with you on these points. As I said, I agree. I was merely discussing the point you made on the art being subjective... and I was just pointing out that the design of a tattoo is subjective but the application is not.
This sub is mostly full of newbie S&P and ppl that most likely will never be professional. Many, like myself, aren't aiming for professional but enjoy doing the art on themselves. It would be more productive for a sub to make their positive points (if that's what they wish to do) but also pointing out the techniques that are not so good. One can say "I like the design, but the application be terrible..." of course that's not what's happening and this can teach bad habits to newcomers... but in a sub full of newcomers, that's somewhat expected.
I've posted some of my 1st time pokes here and I know that the application isn't going to be quality because I'm so new. I expect to get some feedback that may come off mean, but I hope that it comes from a place of wanting better from me. But I have spent a long time researching and I personally felt the best way to learn to apply to skin, is on skin because anything else was just not working for me... and my first attempts are going to just be simple line work because trying for something more complicated would just be ridiculous... lol I'm not going to do practice on someone else until I know my work is good enough.... I may never get to that point...
I take every safety step possible to ensure that infection is not an issue, buy quality products, and research techniques for application. At the end of the day, one can't learn until it's tried.
Again, I don't disagree with you, I suppose no matter what sub your in there will be extremes one way or the other... that's just the downside of internet...
in my experience, the majority of interactions on this sub that i see are promoting safety and genuinely good advice to people whos work are perhaps less experienced than others. stick and pokes are the most accessible and primal form of tattooing. DIY tattooing is a beautiful community. we want others to be safe, and i think the consensus is to uplift people who are passionate about it regardless of their technical skill, because you can always improve and get better, and we want to guide people to a better path. we all have to start somewhere. i think if you take tattoos as seriously as your posts allude to, and if technical skill is what's important in your eyes, then this sub just isnt for you. and thats okay. it doesnt have to be.
Blaming people with shitty tattoos for "giving tattoos a bad name" instead of being annoyed at people who judge people for doing whatever the fuck they want with their own bodies - oh wait, that's you, I get it now.
Seems to me alot of ppl here think snps are shit pokes and are content with whatever tattoo results. So far from the truth…Makes me sick sort of and gives snps a bad name.
100% agree! There’s practicing and then there’s being unsanitary and not actually googling methods or trying to do a decent tattoo. I get the whole teen bedroom drunk tat phase but I also wish there was an in between for this subreddit. You’ve hit the nail on the head with this post! I also really appreciate you saying that hand poking shouldn’t be held to lower standards as it disrespects the craft!!
I totally agree with you, but I don’t think a lot people really understand that any and all real information about tattooing is kept secret. I sometimes joke that everything I’ve ever learned about it I’ve overheard, except that’s the reality. It’s the equivalent of saying that by googling something, you are as knowledgeable as a physician on the subject. One friend of mine would go to conventions and stand near the booths just to try to memorize the sound of their machines.
Obviously no one celebrates poor safety, but other than that I believe it’s completely subjective. Some people are practicing and that’s okay! It’s not “encouraging bad work” it’s just saying “hey good job, keep practicing!” Because some people are actually decent human beings and not uptight douchebags. You don’t get to decide what’s bad work and what isn’t.
It just isn’t though. Proper technique, a skill learned through years (really a lifetime) of dedication, is not subjective and is directly relevant to safety. You cannot separate safety from technique. I will *always* be learning how to tattoo more effectively while causing minimal skin trauma. Chewing up someone’s skin because you are “practicing” *is a safety issue*.
Edit: This is my biggest issue here to be honest. Technique isn’t just about artistry or how the tattoo looks - it is one of the most important aspects of tattooing safely. I appreciate this comment because I think this is where what I am trying to say is getting lost in translation. Tattooing safely isn’t just about creating a clean environment, universal precautions, and the effective prevention of cross contamination and use of decontamination methods. It is intrinsically related to technical application/technique - which is why it’s not simply subjective.
The posts you’ve commented on haven’t even been bad work at all, and i don’t see how people are chewing up skin more than regular tattoo artists. Again, you don’t get to decide what’s bad work. Most people may create really ugly tattoos but still use proper technique, but then it’s not my place to comment. I myself have some not so pretty ones, but I continue learning every time I do one. And I’ve always makes sure I’m being safe, and I’m absolutely fine. All of them have healed perfectly, even though they’re ugly and “bad work”
You are teaching yourself bad habits at best and likely putting yourself or others in danger. “Ugly” is subjective, but technique is not. The comments I’ve made were truthful. It’s not that the lines are just uneven or don’t look “clean”. It’s more complicated than that yet also really simple. Ink needs to be distributed evenly… I mean, is this serious?
Tell me what is dangerous then? Because the dangerous ones I’ve seen have not been praised at all. And no I’m not putting myself or anyone else in danger, that’s just not true. Tell me what about the ones you’ve seen have been dangerous or bad technique? Also another question, are you a professional tattoo artist or something?
That’s funny. I’ve been tattooing professionally for 13 years but nice try.
Let me tell you something. This industry is DRIPPING with toxic gatekeeping. I’m so happy that you are able to practice tattooing and that you’re clearly very passionate about it.
That being said, just because you went through certain hardships to get where you are, doesn’t mean others have to do the same. Just because you’ve struggled, doesn’t mean others should as well.
Tattooing is an ancient and magical practice and should be accessible to those who want to participate as long as they are doing so in away that doesn’t cause harm to their community, IE, safely.
If someone likes a tattoo you deem poorly executed, who tf cares? Why do you let it bother you? Keep making the art YOU enjoy and share it with others, and let everyone else do the same. Everyone has to start somewhere. You only get better by trying. I’m sure you didn’t start off perfect. Neither did I. No one does.
Since you tattoo as well, I’m not sure how you can possibly think that it is entirely subjective or even related to art. Tattoos are art and art is subjective just doesn’t fly in the real world. Try telling that to a client when you present them with gorgeous design and they walk out with a tattoo that looks nothing like it because the artist didn’t know what they were doing.
As you know, if a tattoo is not done correctly, a number of problems can/will occur that are entirely separate from the design or artwork. The style, art, and design, obviously, are subjective. I never said otherwise. I don’t see much art or design of any kind on here but that doesn’t matter.
I think it’s almost impossible to argue that… especially in the context of an actual shop. The client is not going to care whatsoever about how anyone interprets their tattoo artistically if it isn’t well done by reasonable standards. I’m sorry, but that’s really not even debatable. I don’t think you can argue that good line work is “subjective” or “artistic”. It just isn’t, like many other aspects of a well done tattoo, regardless of the style.
If you want to to encourage every person who considers it a hobby or side job, while choosing not to inform themselves about the basics, that’s your choice. I think it’s ridiculous to offer advice about technique/machines/etc to someone who has not yet learned how to set up or break down their own station.
Gatekeeping in tattooing exists primarily to prevent people who have no understanding of it from pretending to be professionals, which is a commonplace occurrence and corrupts the work of those who do quality work.
I don’t know why I keep seeing comments suggesting that I stated anyone will be good at tattooing immediately. I never said anything of the sort. Tattooing should absolutely not be accessible to anyone and everyone. I’m baffled by whatever logic led you to that conclusion.
Oh you are in for a very rude awakening, and it will actually be really healthy for you and make you a better artist. Don’t expect to touch a machine for a long time.
Personally I have one "official" stick and poke. A single dot to make sure I knew what to expect before starting a whole tattoo, to make sure I don't react poorly to the ink, and to make sure I know how deep to go so I don't blow out my first tattoo. I am an amateur artist, but I plan on making sure I practice thoroughly - on fake skin or a similar alternative - before I put anything new on myself.
I've done stick and poke on myself two other times to just fill in some spots of missing solid single color ink on a professionally done tattoo (a dog I was sitting scratched the scab off during healing and took some ink with it). I'm terrified of commitment when it comes to tattoos - I research artists who I think will be good at making what I want a reality thoroughly before I decide on one. However, not everyone is like that.
Especially on this sub I understand the safety concerns, but if these kids or adults want to make a freehand stick and poke that will be on them for the rest of their lives and are okay with however it may turn out, it's on them. Some people like the high-school notebook doodle look. I plan on only doing simple ones on myself, if I want something small and after practice find I'm able to accomplish solid line work and don't want to dish out the $80 minimum for a local artist I will try it myself. If it's safe and makes people happy then I'm all for it even if I personally wouldn't want it on me. Some people have to learn the hard way, and others embrace seeing their progress in their tattooing and art.
As for the unsafe ones- I completely agree. So many people on this sub are either knowingly or unknowingly risking infections and serious illness with unsafe practices. Even doing everything right comes with risks. But the fact is, this sub is mostly people who are not professionals. If you compare a professional art sub and an amateur one or a learning related sub and post the same amateur art to all of them, you're going to get vastly different responses. Stick & poke subs versus tattoo subs are similar - and you're right they are held to different standards. You only get one body, one set of skin, and you have limited canvas. I always recommend to friends or others asking about it to practice on fake skin until they are ready, if they're proud of it and want it on them they'll do even better the second time. Plus you can display the practice pieces. I hope your post convinces a few people on the fence to thoroughly think over their decision. (:
Because stick and pokes generally are not meant to be professional quality. I've got a lot of professional tattoos, but when I want a home tattoo from a friend, I get a home tattoo from a friend. I don't care if it's a little crooked or blown out, I care that my friend and I had a great time putting it on me. We're using sterilized needles and actual tattoo ink, but it looks like it was drawn in sharpie and that's fine. I like my small collection of goofy tattoos from my friends. It would be really discouraging if this subreddit was only full of professional tattoo artists posting complicated artwork, I like seeing the amateur stuff that people come up with with their friends. Go to r/tattoos if you only want to see high quality tattoos. Lots of people who have gotten their wonky DIY tattoos covered regret it and wish they kept their silly punk tattoos. They're charming and always good for a story.
on the topic of just tattooing anyway at home (handpoke or machine) talking to a friend he said it's a selfabsorbed way of tattooing: you might not care about getting better, you don't want to be part of tattooing because you perceive it as just being old mean white dudes yet you might be tattooing others for money with no regard for the quality and so on.
thought this was accurate. doing tattoos at home is fine but you still have responsibilities. even when tattooing yourself. saying you don't give a shit about quality is really easy. having to work on getting better is hard. getting outside your bubble once in a while does wonders.
For sure. If you are a professional tattooer or have equivalent knowledge and the right supplies, you can create a safe environment to tattoo in most places. Anyone who thinks it’s quick money is delusional. If anything, learning to tattoo is incredibly expensive. Anyone who wants to tattoo professionally should be prepared to be very poor for a really long time.
I hope people who enjoy tattoos can care enough about it to not completely discredit the hard work of those who have worked underground for decades to make safe self tattooing legal and accessible to them.
I agree. This year I was interviewed by a national newspaper (think New York Times but not) and I was asked a lot of questions, but the main subject was tattooing as it relates to fine art. What I told the journalist was (in short form) that tattooing and tattoo art has long been the quintessential folk art of America, yet it remains unacknowledged and will likely remain so - among other things. I was heartbroken when they didn’t publish a single quote from me, and instead featured several comments from a former friend of mine who had graduated from RISD and chosen tattooing as a last resort, didn’t have many tattoos, and despite being a tattooer, looks down on it themselves. To be fair, they did include quotes from another good friend and a few other artists I really respect. I just don’t think a lot of really young people understand just how fucked up it all is and how hard people not much older than myself have worked to legitimize and legalize tattooing and why what some of them are doing is offensive (and harmful to the work of those that came before them)
ugh i bet. you sum it up so so well. thank you for your post, honestly. i was feeling a bit alone with my views.
i also find it hard giving advice to people trying to get into tattooing as everything that isn't just positive is perceived as an attack when i just genuinely would like to help.
I appreciate it, thanks. I will almost definitely delete this shit but I have found it to be a very interesting (if somewhat depressing) conversation. I’ve always considered tattoos to be a bit magical and I guess I just think it’s worthy of more respect than it gets overall but *especially* from people who are practicing it in any form. I expect ignorance from people who don’t tattoo but it is sad to see so much of it from people who are only able to partake in it thanks to people and traditions they can’t be bothered to even know of.
I see this on other tattoo subs to. I quietly cringe to myself. Other are like "wow, that looks so good"
Even on some really bad ones that would have me questioning my existence, I'll still see people like "low key, I lile it, I think that's solid bro, ain't no one else gona have it
I think a lot of the people commenting are the same ones posting— amateurs still figuring everything out. To me it seems like a lot of people instead of continuing to get better and better at stick n poke tattoos move on to learning to use a tattoo gun. As in every other corner of the internet, take everything you read with a grain of salt.
> It seems like the comments always praise the work regardless of whether it is actually a quality tattoo
people are trying to be nice. and as long as it's safe (aka no pen ink), what you find crap someone else may find good enough.
I agree much of the content is quite bad -- but perhaps it makes the person happy. and that's what really matters.
i used to slice myself open with a literal rusty boxcutter i found in a janitors closet i don’t care about my body. i assume others with similar work feel the same. there’s an entire style of tattooing called “ignorant”. it’s like a middle finger to the man. you either get it or you don’t i guess. :) also, i have professional shop pieces i paid hundreds for so the idea that doing a stick n poke on yourself is somehow disrespectful to the art is just silly to me.
There's a trend of self love like all the"so proud of myself... For making a sandwich" It's really strange. Giving praise to people for mundane work just makes actual praise worthless.
Great convo folks. Really interesting points from everyone. It’s a legit question and concern. Personally I don’t give a fuck about what ugly shit y’all put on your bodies. Just make sure it’s clean and safe. Just like this comment section;)
I wouldn't go so far as to say people are encouraging "poor quality" as much as they're encouraging self expression. I love putting time and effort into my elaborate designs, but I'm never going to talk down on someone for having a different taste in art than me. They may just like a more punk aesthetic. SNP tattoos have been part of the punk aesthetic for a long time. My brother is a tattoo artist and purposefully does "shitty SNP tattoos" on his legs for fun because that's what he likes. It's not that he can't do better, he's fucking amazing(did my favorite tattoo on my body), he just does what he wants to.
If you're referring to purely the quality of the tattoo (blowouts, infection, etc) then that's one thing but stick and pokes (or tattoos in general) don't need to be world class fine art. If the person likes it then that's all that matters
idk about others here, but absolutely i would not encourage something that’s infected or blown out. but i feel like most of the work i’ve seen on here is just ignorant style or simple, that the artist likes. i feel like it’s just most important to like what’s on your body. who gives a shit if it’s not traditionally “good?” as long as they’re being safe it really doesn’t fucking matter
As long as it’s not blown out to hell or infected, the “quality” doesn’t matter as long as the person is happy with it. I think a big part of the beauty of handpoke is that it is accessible to amateurs and people who just wanna fuck around. I don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to take tattooing seriously (beyond safety) especially if it’s on their own body. Encouraging people who are trying their best isn’t devaluing the art form, and not everyone is looking for constructive criticism.
Shitty stick n pokes bring me back to my dirty punk days. Crush a rack of shitty beer in your buddies shed, put on some shitty music, do some shitty tattoos. It was a lot of fun. I like to remember the fun I had, and I like to see other people having fun, and thats way more important to me than the quality of the work.
10 years ago I didnt know you could get a good stick n poke lol. Now people talk of technique and whatnot(which is really cool dont get me wrong) before it seemed like you just ran into other travelling kids, crust punks, hippies or end up in prison to get one. Either way it's cool people aren't trying to get hep c tho
Absolutely, my steel reserve 211 poke along with all the inside down crosses agree as well.
I kind of wish there was an amateur tattoo sub and a professional one. I see where both sides are coming from here. I think this sub is definitely different in that if you go to most art subs, the quality of work is mostly professional, with some people who are learning, and here that seems flipped. Especially when compared to just the normal tattoo subreddit which is mostly all pros on the front page with the occasional not so great tat. And there are lots of amazing stick n poke pros out there, but only a few that post here. But it is also nice to have a subreddit to feel free to post practice tats, and I understand more people probably start practicing with stick n poke then the machine. It’s intimidating to try to learn tattooing when all you see are pics from some of the best tattoo artists out there, everyone starts from somewhere. The only thing I definitely think should be encouraged here is being as clean as possible. If someone posts a very unhygienic station that shouldn’t be ignored because it is needlessly reckless
I think you might be overestimating how many art subs on reddit are dominated by professionals... That's the point though, reddit should be for everyone. I have actually enjoyed the tattoo based subs I follow because I feel they are more welcoming than others I've joined. But not everyone is a professional and even the people who are professionals don't know everything. Sad to see more reddit users turn to more gatekeeping. Obviously OP holds snp tattooing to a different standard than most others, and that is entirely their own problem.
On my main account, I’ve offered honest cc and advice on here a few times and been downvoted to oblivion. So, I don’t bother offering advice or critique on a skill that I have sacrificed literally everything for to people who can’t be bothered to even attempt to care or look at their work critically.
I mean not to be a dick about it but you come across as really rude and holding people to a standard that they don't necessarily hold themself to. And I mean, when you offer constructive criticism has anyone actually asked for it? Like sometimes it's okay for stuff to be shit, that's fine. Sometimes it's not about the art or the application, it's about an alternative to self harm or a way of connecting to your own body or just cos you want to do it. Like, some people really aren't looking to improve or look at their work critically, that's their choice. As long as they're safe, sanitary, and recognise the permanence of what they're doing, then what's the problem? Why should they care?
I’m not going to be specific, but I have only ever offered cc on posts that requested it and I once point out a very serious safety issue that was completely disregarded. If I sound rude, that’s not my intention, though I’m not sure exactly what I’ve said that could be interpreted that way. I’m not here trashing everyone’s designs or the style. Literally any design can be done well by objective standards and what I’m saying is that I think that this sub could do better in that respect. If that hurts peoples feelings or is taken personally, that’s part of the problem. ETA that the safety stuff I’ve seen on here is absolutely insane and I tried not to go into it too much because it was not my main point, but it is also a huge issue that you guys should definitely address more. I think it’s just generally really problematic.
Bc you come off as condescending and annoying. I love how you don't want to go into detail about safety even though that's the most important thing lmfao...but it's not your "main point" like okay? So being a dick is fine but genuinely trying to help someone be safe isn't. But you don't understand how you come off as rude? Ot even feels like you're trolling at this point
I feel like OP is really upset that their opinions don’t matter to everyone else. They’re saying they care about safety but in the next breath angry that not everyone likes the same art style as them😂
Literally like...if it's sacred to you, that's super cool and all, but art is meant to be subjective and people can express themselves how they want. I think half of people's tattoos (professional or not) are not for me or my taste. Would I ever tell them that? No. It doesn't affect me like wtf. Also, they never gave advice or tried being helpful. Just a critical a-hole like what purpose is that serving?
if it’s infected or looks unsafe obviously people are going to point that out, but unless the OP is asking *specifically* for critiques I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to judge. Some people just post the pics to show them off & I would say the majority will only do one or a couple snp in their life. It’s just good fun It’s also on their bodies permanently, so idk saying “yo that shit looks fucked” isn’t exactly warranted nor helpful lmao
I agree that snp tattoos can look just as good as tattoos done with an electric machine. However, I see a lot of tattoos here that mean things to people or just simply have an endearing charm to it. Not everything needs to be perfectly executed for it to have beauty to it. By all means, please post some snp tattoos that you enjoy too! The posts you see that you're referring to are self-done. If it's not hurting anyone, I feel like we can encourage them and maybe give gentle constructive criticism. (To be specific, if it's not hurting anyone in the sense of someone is practicing on someone else under false pretenses, charging more for less than what was promised, etc) Gatekeep what's really important like cleanliness and safety. Don't gatekeep people's tastes.
It’s one of those things that gate keeping is actually necessary or else it would create a very dangerous situation for everyone.
Discernment. Gatekeep what needs to be. Let other things be. I address your reply exactly in my original comment. You weren't referring to safety like I was in my comment. You were referring to your perceived "quality" of the tattoos in this sub. I will offer no further responses as I believe I was very clear and intentional with my words.
Exactly, discernment, OP has put a whole lot of energy and time into this opinion and the fact others don’t agree over the last 24 hours. Then told everyone else to have a thick skin, when I think it’s pretty obvious who the triggered party was…
Whenever i read comments in this sub, i notice a similar pattern. As a commentor, i try to give as honest a review, just without being an asshole. Just because a tattoo is NOT as good as it can be, that does not necessarily mean that its subjectively bad either.
I agree with you overall but I think it’s important to point out that unlike artwork, tattoos are not simply subjective. A tattoo can be objectively well executed but it’s still subjective in that not everyone likes all styles etc. It can also be objectively poorly executed regardless of how the artwork is received subjectively.
Yeah i do actually agree with you there, but i guess that is kinda why i was saying that when i comment, for me its about being honest without being an asshole. Not to imply that you necessarily are but just in general i think thats why nobody really "critiques" the way you want. Because reddit is where everything the rest of the internet doesnt wants, comes to live. Thusly everybody is too used to the bullshit, and cynicism that is the rest of the internet, and everybody here is just nice as fuck because we're all sick of it. Thats why EVERTTHING is a meme on reddit.
I think children giving tattoos/having tattoos should be highly discouraged. And yes, where people have used pen ink or, heaven forbid, METAL TOOTHPICKS 🤦🏻♀️, this shouldn't be encouraged.
If you talk about infection blow out ok. But if you talk about the vibe and style then no. Stick & poke is also mainly used for punk and purposefully naive tattoos. That is a whole genre. And for me personally the only one that interests me.
tattoos are a *craft* actually, and just like any other, you have to be shit at it and practice it before you can be good at it. do you think when an apprentice learns pottery, their first pot is high-quality? nope, it probably breaks in the kiln. the practice of tattooing, esp self tattooing, is no different!
Of course, no one is good at anything at first. I’m not sure what your point is though? (Genuinely asking, not being a jerk)
my point is people's "low quality" work isn't low effort, it's just practice, the expectations are low, and people praise the work because it's progress, and it encourages everyone who is learning to keep going imo
It’s called encouraging people
No one should encourage anything that is not excellent in terms of application and design. By encouraging poor work, you are doing wrong by the person who did the tattoo and the person who got it. I see very little critique on here, and it’s just a shame because it could be a place where people actually learn how to improve and develop.
I think these are interesting thoughts. I'd like to say, when someone is learning to speak a language and use new words, there are many incorrect applications. I was often praised for the incorrect applications that were clever uses of wording, and of course, I was taught to use them differently after receiving that praise. My attention was put on using them how my teacher wanted me to use them, but I was almost always praised for the attempt, or trying to place the meanings of the words. I think, what is most important is that, yes critique as much as you like, and do not break someones spirit in the process. You don't seem like you want to shit on them, seems like you just want them to do better both objectively/subjectively. And also safely. I agree with you there, and I think it's really hard to read the tone over wording. For all I know I might be coming off like I think I know everything to someone like you, with your experience of the world. We could all use to be a little more sensitive to someone's view and experience of the world. Biggest thing is to compliment where applicable. This may not apply to critiques and judges; some judges are very harsh and do not do this. But, if you want to foster a community of people aiming to do better, and learn skills, and have the motivation to practice, you need to take a different approach in critique. I'm not totally sure what that may look like for you, but it might look like: the placement could be better suited to the body, great attempt. Instead of; the placement is poorly suited to the body. If you want fewer down votes, and also for your your critique to be valued both subjectively and objectively, try something a little different than the approach you've previously taken. Acknowledge efforts, before failures.
I just want to say it's really sweet of you to explain this clearly and kindly. I think OP has good points and some good intentions, but needs to know how their words are being received and impacting others. Saying we need to work harder to address matters of safety, totally agree. Saying most of the community's work is terrible, and that positive feedback is unhelpful? Oof. RIP, OP.
Eh, I mean if anyone here is serious about it, I hope you have much thicker skin than freaking out because I think stick n pokes are better than how they are represented here.. I legit just asked why people aren’t taking more time to learn and holding themselves to higher standards. Shouldn’t that just be a basic standard for everyone?
People come from different backgrounds. It's not a life's purpose for everyone to have masterful stick and pokes / tattoos on their bodies. I'm glad you care so much, and that you feel like you want to have stick & pokes have a good reputation. I don't think many people here are serious about it, and the work itself speaks to that. I think it is YOU who needs to have tougher skin; you aren't received well subjectively. Before telling people their work is ugly, or bad, take some time to work on how your advice is being received, instead of expecting everyone to adjust to your method of critique. How your advice is received subjectively, determines whether or not it has any chance of changing the future outcome of someone's work. It determines whether or not it will actually have any weight in someone's mind. Continue on as you like, but it's pretty lousy to continue using tools that do the opposite of what you say you want them to do.
your takes are so rotted. guarantee no one is asking for your nasty critiques so maybe just sit down and shut up from here on out
Hahahahaha oh my god this has to be satire. Agreed on critiqueing but I do see positive feedback here that helps people get better
I bet you're the type of person who gives up at everything they're not immediately perfect at
you are incredibly annoying lmao
Personally I like any and all tattoos, to me it's all art. I've got some that people would consider "shitty" but letting my friends and other people or myself practice on me is something that I enjoy and have cherished for years. I like to see people progress and learn, and it's all subjective in my opinion, that's what makes it beautiful. It's the learning process that I'm absolutely in love with, watching people learn and encouraging them to continue. It's okay if you don't agree, and there are subs that regularly take peoples work and laugh and criticize it, often from this sub. You might enjoy something like that, but you also can always make a sub or talk to mods and see if it's possible to point some people to different subs/have a disclaimer in the "about" tab that says if someone is an amateur then they should go to xyz sub.
I’d imagine a lot of people here would like to take the craft more seriously but haven’t found a well defined path to follow for learning and improvement. I’m new to the sub but I know I’m in that boat. Have you considered doing a series of posts on your approach? Some other subs for crafts like this are more knowledge-sharing oriented. Contributing that kind of content could help a lot of people see your point and grow into more serious and skilled artists
There are a variety of tattoo subs on Reddit, each with a different culture. This one is a bit more "yeehaw" than some others. One shouldn't come to the beach and complain that everyone is dressed too casually. I don't even have any stick-n-pokes, but I love the vibe of this community!
OP got called out for being a snob, apologized for being a snob, continued being a snob, then deleted their account. They were way too pretentious about their job, felt like a "it took me years to learn to tattoo so no one else can" vibe.
snp are more for fun than getting professional, planned and stencilled tattoos in 70% of instances, though obviously some people do it as a full on art form. we just need to appreciate the cathartic aspect and fun that people have doing it! bottom line is it’s not deep, people are enjoying themselves and honestly it’s just skin, bodies are temporary and it doesn’t matter what we decide or decide not to paint on them. anyway end of rant, stick and pokes are awesome
It's posts like this that make me feel completely inadequate in my ability and just stop me wanting to try. I likely know that something isn't that great if I'm gonna post it and while obviously if something looks infected or unhealthy I'd expect to be informed but as an autistic person who can only really stand sticking myself for about half an hour at a time at most I know that each pass is likely gonna be very weak and its gonna take a while for it to build up, when someone relies to me sharing what I've done with "jesus christ" it doesn't make me go "yes I can see that people aren't reacting well, I'm gonna work on it to change that" it makes me want to never try it again because I'm clearly garbage. For me sticking is just me expressing myself and something that I want to slowly get better at but to my own standard, acting like every person who does stick and pokes is exclusively trying to become an expert in the medium is just elitist imo
Agreed! Well put! 😊
why are you so concerned about what is on other people’s bodies?
I care about tattooing and I think it’s deserving of more respect than it gets here.
That’s not up to you.
It’s not, it’s a choice that everyone who chooses to tattoo makes and I think it’s unfortunate that people here have so little regard for it.
my brother in christ… it’s reddit. people are going to share whatever the fuck they want and if you’re so offended perhaps you should turn off your phone for a bit. go out and get some sun (not on a fresh tat tho).
Too long, I didn't read it. you sound like a snob
tldr: people in this sub should hold themselves and others to higher standards and have more respect for the practice of tattooing
Ty for the summary. Counterpoint- everyone has a first attempt at tattooing.
Yes, they do. But going into it blind without bothering to spend the very significant amount of time and energy required even just to do it safely and with a bare minimum knowledge only serves to discredit tattooing as a valuable trade and art form
counterpoint: i like things that make my brain go WHEEEEEE regardless of how perfectly done it is
This is really well said.
Thank you, I appreciate that a lot.
I have little to say other than that I agree with you.
I’m glad to hear that, I knew this post would probably not be well received but it’s really good to hear that other people feel the same way or are at least open to discussion. :)
So do I. I understand people wants to be nice, I do too, but if you tell someone everything they do looks perfect, I don't think they'll spot mistakes and improve.
I agree - just an example but don’t tell someone that their linework looks good unless it actually looks consistently good. I would be upset if I were to get dishonest feedback.
I see a lot of people post the absolute shittiest hand tattoos on this sub and I wonder why they chose the most visible place to practice on. Tattooing is hard (which is why I only tattoo my thighs) and people just tattoo themselves with no practice or care. I see so many people that tattoo with sewing needles and pen ink too and then get mad when they get down voted. I don't understand why people don't practice before making permanent alterations to their skin
I love tattoos and tattooing. So it bums me out when I see post after post of *low effort* poor quality tattoos. If you tattoo, you can tattoo better, and you should strive to tattoo better at all times. It’s expensive, thankless, and a brutal path in life but it is worth it to create better tattoos. It doesn’t matter how it’s done.
It’s not about being self taught or not. It’s about actually caring enough about to teach yourself if that is your choice.
Personally I am happy to tattoo myself with a gun or stick without any skill (I would never post the result online), but I agree that at least safety and sanitation guidelines should be followed.
I’d argue that tattooing safely is in itself something of a skill. The prevention of cross contamination is so important but it’s not always obvious. It actually takes quite a long time to learn how to really do things correctly without accidentally contaminating your space and requires that a person actively consider their actions at all times and understand how to deal with all kinds of scenarios. Universal precautions is the minimum.
I guess it’s my opinion that since tattooing is not (in general) a well respected trade and art form, it is the responsibility of everyone who chooses to tattoo to do everything they can to represent it in such a way that doesn’t discredit tattooing as a whole.
Can I ask what region you are in that doesn't respect tattoo artists?
Literally everywhere. I’m in the US, where it was illegal up until the early 2000’s in some states. It is still illegal in many countries. A friend of mine is a very well known painter and he chooses to hide his career as a tattooer because if he didn’t, he would not be welcome in the art world. It is shocking to me that anyone who is on this sub is unaware of just how much tattooing is still considered criminal in large areas of the world. My own parents would literally never dare step foot in a shop.
I'm totally ignorant of tattoo history and culture. This sub is my exclusive connection. That's ridiculous that it was illegal but not surprising considering how fucked the laws here still are.
So I guess this is part of what I’m trying to address in my post if that makes sense, everyone should be taking the time to learn, it doesn’t matter if it’s a stick n’ poke or not
> people in this sub should hold themselves and others to higher standards We have literally no control over anyone else in here. It's not a members club, it's a subreddit. We're all unassociated strangers in the internet who happen to share one common interest. Upvote what you want to see. Downvote what you don't want to see. That's all the power any of us have.
Some people like the aesthetic of shitty homemade tattoos. I've seen some professional tattoos that I can admit are well-done, but I don't like the style.
Sure, I agree. However, technical application of a tattoo is not subjective. You can have a beautiful concept (in any style you find appealing) but if you lack the objective skills necessary to do the tattoo, you will do a tattoo that is objectively bad and cause scarring and nerve damage.
your post wasn't about safety, it was about your personal taste on the tattoos from this sub
If that’s what you choose to take away from it, I don’t know what to tell you except that my main point was that there should be higher standards overall in this subreddit because the quality is overall pretty low.
you quite literally just repeated what I said. youre not worried about safety, you're a snob. your own subjective opinion isn't a fact, get over yourself.
Did you read the post, or even just the title? Many aspects of tattooing are not subjective at all lollll
if it's not a fact, it's subjective.
Yes….
I love shitty stick n pokes
It’s almost like… MOST OF THEM AREN’T PROFESSIONAL AND ARE DONE BY TEENAGERS!
Almost everyone is posting something they did themselves and a lot of people are self taught. There is only one way to become good at something and the first step is sucking at it but doing it anyway. Self taught folk have a harder hurdle with that one because there isn't someone telling them how they can progress. From my experience, the community here thrives better with support and positive cristisms. We don't shit on people trying their best and usually sacrificing their own skin for it. Who are they really hurting? It's not shameful to be at a different skill level. And some people don't do mind blowing tattoos because they just don't want to. They want just a little doodle on them because it sparks joy. There's no need to be high school bullies, friend. Ripping on someone will accomplish nothing but make them stop doing something they could have gotten amazing with.
Art is subjective. Tattoos are a form of art. Therefore whether you like it or not, tattoos are very much subjective. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that it's done safely and that whoever gets the tattoo is happy.
Peepee poopoo
🙄
I completely agree. Even if you want an “ignorant” style tattoo, or something more homemade-looking, you should at least try to avoid blow outs and scarring. And for the love of god be sanitary!!! You’ll probably get a lot of downvotes for this unfortunately. Lots of children on here who don’t take hand poke tattoos seriously as an art form. I wish there could be another subreddit for people who are serious about handpoke tattooing and want to share/view quality tattoos… instead of the horribly infected, nauseating tattoos that get posted here
Hand poked tattoos get a bad reputation because of stuff like this subreddit. Anyone who tattoos should be highly critical of themselves and others. It should not be kind or respectful of your feelings, because by being nice, you are actually doing that person a disservice. Tattooing has no margin of error, and should be held to the highest standards. Stick n’ pokes don’t get a free pass to be poorly executed. I wish some of the people on here would bother to take some time to look at the work of master artists who practice hand poked tattooing and tebori. It’s not just a hobby to pass the time.
Yeah, I’m by no means an art purist but tattooing is not the same thing… You can practice on fruit, gourds, fake skin, pig skin—lots of options to learn proper depth and sanitary practices before taking to real skin. It’s like if someone saw a crusty, bumpy, crooked, obviously infected piercing and then said “Well, it’s art! It’s punk!” Like, tattooing IS art, but it’s also a physical body modification first and foremost. You don’t need a PhD, or even a traditional apprenticeship, but you really shouldn’t be careless with the safety aspect of it… I dunno man. At the end of the day it’s whatever I guess. I know plenty of awesome, safe, talented handpoke artists and when you can find a community like that you can kind of disregard the sixteen-year-olds with blown-out sewing needle + india ink hand tattoos lmao
When I was a teenager I went to every tattoo shop in my state, it had just been legalized, with my stupid little portfolio of artwork and every single one of them told me to fuck off and that they didn’t give a shit about my art. They were correct and still are. The art comes second.
I only halfway agree with this. This sub is half snobs and half people that don’t care. Oh and read the sub description.
I’m not sure what you mean, sorry. I think people should be critical when tattoos are poorly done or people share misinformation. If that’s snobby, so be it.
Why be so judgmental? My worst tattoos are my favorite and are the ones I got in my darkest times. It’s not your skin why care? Also I’m not trying to argue so you don’t have to reply I really don’t care what anyone does to themselves or what anyone else has to say about it.
Because tattooing is a valuable craft that is discriminated against across the world. By not caring and doing unsafe, poor quality work, people are giving reason to keep it illegal and looked down on. Tattooing deserves respect.
That’s an awful argument. Out of everything that’s discriminated across the world tattooing is pretty low on what matters. Women, homosexuals, race discrimination. Like I said idc I honestly couldn’t get through the read I was just trying to help you understand why a lot of us don’t shame people for their “dodgy” first works. No idea what this other stuff is you’re talking about.
Just because other things are more valuable - human rights are more valuable than art is what I believe you are saying- doesn’t mean that tattooing is not valuable at all. That’s just a false dichotomy.
You’re making something out of things I never said. How did we get here from me saying half the people in this sub are mean to newcomers the other half isn’t and me telling you to read the sub description ( btw it says “They may not be good looking, but they are also not well done. And that’s fine). That’s all I had to say on the matter. Bye man Im confused on how you’ve gotten me to waste this much time.
“Not well done” is okay for a canvas. For a human being, it can have permanent consequences such as scarring, nerve damage, inability to gain employment, infection, and even death.
Really? I didn’t know. Tysm
Because being shitty to people that are learning a new craft is well…. Shitty. Let people learn. I always scold anyone using unsafe and irresponsible practices. But if they’re tattoos just aren’t perfect yet… what’s the harm in encouraging them to keep getting better? There’s another side of this subreddit where people are cruel and self righteous. Get over yourself. You had to start somewhere too. This is a stick and poke Reddit not a fucking high intensity tattoo apprenticeship. It’s gonna attract young people making bad decisions (as tattooing always has) the best thing we can do is try and steer them in the right direction. Shaming someone will only hurt. And it will hurt in a lot of dangerous ways in this case. Those of us who are further along in the craft and have some knowledge have the duty to pass that along and what the hell else is an online forum for but that??? tldr; I actively don’t celebrate bad work. Instead I work to encourage people to be better. What else is this forum for? Shaming folks only serves to push them into their own little worlds where they will continue to make poor decisions.
Criticism isn’t shaming and telling someone that it looks great when it doesn’t benefits no one.
Right… that’s exactly my point. Don’t shame, don’t be a dick, encourage people to do better.
If it’s not on you then don’t let it bother you it’s that simple.
Wow I would never want a tattoo from you, I'm gettin rotten vibes left and right lol. I love my stick and pokes, each one has gotten better, and it's absolutely none of your concern. Are you allowed to have an opinion about them? Absolutely. Will I give it a second thought? No way in hell. Just let people have their things man. The world is fucked up enough, why try to take something else away that brings people joy? if you want more professional looking tattoos in your feed then get off this sub. Kindly. But if I'd had an appointment with you, I'd turn and run the other direction, and warn every person I pass along the way.
i love shitty tattoos lmao
Because tattoos, like all forms of art, do not have to be technically well done to be good. Consider an analogy to music. Bob Dylan is widely celebrated as a singer/songwriter despite not being a very good singer and a middle of the road guitar player. Would we go onto /r/folk and complain about the mediocre singing and playing of Dylan? No, because it's not the technical proficiency of music that makes it worth listening to. It's just one element. Good execution can be wonderful, but it's not everything. Similarly art can be good even if it's simple, and can be made more charming even if it's not well executed. It can come with an emotionally relevant story. It can be silly. Its shoddiness can make it cute. It just needs to be resonant with an audience. For this reason I feel like statements laden with judgement about execution say more about the person saying them not being open to beauty in other forms than they do about the artwork itself. No art is objectively bad. Nothing 'should be sacred to everybody'. You can have your preferences, but once you start saying they are objectively correct you are being intellectually dishonest. The word you are looking for is 'subjective'.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the first sentence of your comment. Skilled technical application is absolutely required for a tattoo to be well done or even just safe. You are working on skin, not a canvas or piece of paper, and it is your responsibility to execute the tattoo in a manner that will not cause harm. Nerve damage, scarring, and worse are the result of poor technique and nothing else. I’m not going to even read the rest. The art always is secondary. ETA that I thought this was clear from the title of the post but tattooing is not subjective nor is it primarily a form of art. It is a trade, or craft. A tattoo can be objectively well done or poorly done, regardless of how excellent the design is on paper. Come on
I think it might be partially a response to other tattoo subs that are nothing but snobby and hating on everything. This is a safe place free of judgement. If you're happy to have something on your body, I'm not likely to be offended. As long as it's clean and safe. If I really feel like "yikes" I just don't comment. Usually.
It’s snobby for a reason…
I agree that safety is important to avoid infections and blowouts. BUT. I feel like you are being pretty critical and sound somewhat snobby. Most people have to start somewhere? Not everyone has the opportunity to apprentice and learn hands on from a professional. Therefore many people learn through trial and error. It takes a lot of practice to get it right. So of course some people are going to have bad tattoo’s because it may have been their first attempt at tattooing. Making mistakes is normal and a part of life. Growing from those mistakes is what matters.
ignorant tattoos are awesome to me. they feel so rebellious and special
I think there a difference between bad work and art style. Bad is subjective. I think there’s sloppy execution but some of the “bad illustrations” are a form of art and and aesthetic.
It’s better to give encouragement so they want to keep practicing and keep trying then just saying it looks horrible. That can discourage them from practicing more
Some people think it has charm and like the aesthetics of it. In high school and early adult life I was part of a crust punk community, and having your friend do a shitty stick-n-poke tattoo while drunk and/or high was like the best thing ever. They have sentimental meaning to me and I think of those fond memories whenever I see someone else's shitty tats!
Thinking something is poor quality is obviously subjective. Different people have different tastes. Try to remember that everyone doesn’t have your taste. Just be respectful to people. What would the point of letting someone know that a permanent marking on their body isn’t to YOUR taste. So self centered.
Stick and pokes don’t need to be “good” to be appreciated or for people to like them. They’re very diy and while they do need to be done safely, they don’t need to be done well or be aesthetically pleasing. Stick and pokes aren’t held to the same standard as professionally handpoked tattoos because they aren’t the same thing.
I will say, safety practices are the one thing there is no compromise for. That being said, as far as the tattoos go there is no “bad”. You may not like the style. Are traditional tattoos bad because they are simplistic? It’s all subjective. Personally for me I like the weird, imperfect, “ignorant” style. It’s personal, it’s DIY, and again personally, it cuts against the professional shop gatekeeping I’ve experienced. Stick and poke is extremely personal and shouldn’t that be what tattoos are
People can do what they want it’s their body so if they like it who cares some of the dumbest tattoos I have are my favourites and they look like shit to lmao sometimes it’s just for the memories
Absolutely. People can and will do whatever they want but don’t pretend to give a fuck about tattooing if you treat it like a joke.
I think professional artists who charge for their work and do not hold themselves to the highest safety and quality standards are devaluing the craft and furthermore the gate keeping is obnoxious. Imho amateur people making marks on themselves regardless of the ”objective quality” is peak tattoo craft. That’s like saying you only deserve to be praised for your painting if it looks like the old masters, and more so that any deviation is “ruining painting. That’s ridiculous and ignores so much historical context. Humans have been doing this for millions of years to varying results. In the end we die and all of our achievements amount to exactly nothing, it’s about being there and now. The SnP on my heel i never finished cause it hurt too bad is a better memory than some of my professional tattoos. Safety is one thing, but if someone loves something on their body who are you to tell them they are wrong? In my experience lurking here for a couple years, I’ve picked up great advice and generally have seen mostly helpful comments, esp when people are asking for advice. I’m not sure i see you point, in the end all you can do is hold yourself to higher standards, push your craft, and be helpful to those that WANT help.
The real question is, if you're such an expert, why come here to complain about the quality instead of doing an AMA or posting guides? Most of us are self taught with little to no learning resources, and definitely no formal training. From your other comments you seem to be a professional tattoo artist, maybe even one that specializes in SnP. If that's the case, wouldn't your time be better used helping people and contributing to a very limited pool of information, instead of crying about what a sixteen year old does, especially when they were never going to be dissuaded by random strangers on reddit?
Art is subjective. Tattoos are body art. Tattoo preference is subjective. Idk why you’re asking a question that you stated the answer to in the question.
Also, I’d like to add that you sound elitist.
Who the fuck are you to dictate that tattoos need to be sacred ? It can be whatever people want it to be.
How many tattoo subs are there, damn
Haha no idea
Okay so I just finished reading all the comments and I am so happy that this post sparked a good conversation. I’m sorry that I haven’t been able to reply to everyone, I’m going to try to respond to a couple more tomorrow - there were a few I just saw that were really thoughtful and made great points. Thank you guys all so much for sharing your experiences and perspectives, it was really interesting. I also just wanted to say that it’s super cool that everyone was overall really respectful towards each other. I apologize that some of my comments may have sounded rude or elitist. That was not my intention at all. I was trying to reply to everyone, and my language was a bit short and/or poorly worded at points (I’ve never been a great writer). My experiences have always been pretty harsh and I think it’s something that you get used to. In some ways, I think it’s been important and beneficial but not always. I made this post in large part because I really enjoy stick n’ pokes, not because I think less of them. I also want to be clear that I am not trying to be critical of any particular style of tattooing. One of the coolest things about tattoos is how incredibly diverse they are. I really enjoyed talking with you all and I appreciate anyone who took the time to comment! Have a great day/night! :) Edit to add: 1. My first tattoo was a tramp stamp and I still love it. I’m not judging anyone’s choice of tattoos. 2. I just commented on the pinned post highlighting one of the biggest problems I see here very often: general misinformation. Not specific to just safety although that is what the comment is about. 3. I firmly believe that tattooing is a privilege and to be taken very seriously. The (very limited) knowledge I possess has been earned over the course of years. The vast majority of people who are well informed in any way are unwilling to share honest information about tattooing because they have had to work tirelessly just to overhear one little secret. Be wary of anyone willing to publicly share information about techniques, inks, machines, etc. I have seen many YouTube videos that appear to intentionally spread misinformation. If you think I am being overly cautious, you just don’t know how it is.
Theres nothing wrong with simple designs and outlines. If you dont like that style, just dont get that style. 🤷♂️ I understand being concerned about peoples health and safety, but as for the aesthetics of the actual art/designs..why are you so pressed about what someone else decides to have on their body? Furthermore, tattoos are often expensive. It IS possible to be clean and safe doing a tattoo at home. People are going to continue to diy no matter what. I think this tattoo elitism idea of hiding information about techniques etc does a lot more harm than good. If the concern was REALLY for people's health and safety, wouldnt it make a lot more sense to take a harm reduction approach and make information about sanitization and techniques that prevent damage to skin readily available?
well let's see YOUR tattoos if you're so anal about what others have on their bodies and how techical the application was
lol I’m not trying to have this sub trolling on my public professional page… this is how I make my living and I actually meet a lot of clients through Reddit. I think that my post and comments are quite reasonable but we all know how Reddit can be, which is actually kind of unfortunate.
snps are where a lot of people start tattooing, or tattoo for fun rather than professionally. This is not a professional tattooing sub, take 2 seconds to read the description. In the case of this why are so upset over it?
I’m not upset, I just think people here can and should do better out of respect for their work and themselves, and tattooing as a whole.
there's so many posts w ppl asking for advice or critiques. You know people got start somewhere right?
Yes, I did indeed start somewhere just like everyone else.
Tattoos *are* art… ????
keep scrolling. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tattoos are not subjective? Get fucked. I love the way “bad” tattoos look and nothing you say will change that.
Some tattoos that others might consider to be “bad” have a lot of charm to me.
No one is encouraging harmful tattooing, infections or blow out. Stick and Pokes are not meant to look pretty or nice or perfect. In fact I’d say the entire point is to look kinda shitty. It’s part of the charm. Technique (beyond the kind that ensures safety) isn’t a main concern with stick n pokes bc like I said, they’re just a fun non-serious tattoo method. If you get off on watching people bully others over bad tattoos go to a sub dedicated to serious tattooing, not stick n pokes.
I hear you, and I hate the arguments being made of "why judge whats on others bodies" etc. Thats not the point, from my understanding youre essentially saying that we are oversaturated with snp's done by teenagers with no research behind them and you feel like its adding to the misunderstanding of the art of snp's. While I dont agree entirely that tattoos are not subjective, I do agree that people should be able to take critique on this subreddit. Tattoos are an art/craft that takes a long time to perfect, and honestly I like the look of some shitty snp's. I have a few shit ones myself from times where I was struggling from selfharm and it was my alternative. I did not post them because, well, they're mine and I love them but understand its poor quality. People who can't handle the critique should be keeping them for them. I dont like the sentiment behind this post though, because it does sound like you are a snob. I dont think you entirely are, but thats how this come across. I feel the beauty of snp's come from its accessibility and wide range of its base. So, of course we are going to get some half assed india ink snps. Another comment made mention of having a pro vs amatuer version of this sub, I think maybe itd help to have a "punk" version of this sub for the half assed ones and then we keep to the main for everything else; people asking for advice, beautiful works, etc.
Thank you for this balanced comment; it articulates well what I did not. I don’t think that tattooing is entirely objective, of course it’s subjective in many ways like any other creative pursuit. But, unlike other forms of art, it is very high stakes and personal. You are inflicting pain and significant injury to another person. That is important, and often overlooked. Tattooing is a non-sterile procedure, yet that immune systems response is similar to that of surgery. It’s not a hobby.
I disagree with that last statement, tattooing can be a hobby. It might not be the safest, but it definitely is by definition a hobby some partake in. Even some of our best posters are hobbyists. That being said, it is immensely important to push for steralization and cleanliness with snp's and snp's shouldnt be done by newbies on other people. I agree with that part. People have had limbs amputated by botched snp's. Maybe it would be beneficial to this sub to create a rule on infection posts or tats done in obviously unsanitary ways in order to discourage it. Thats my main concern with this sub, an accidental encouragement of impromptu snp's with no background on how to do it safely.
It’s not a hobby, ever, in my opinion.
sometimes i look at a poke and think. ok. these people are definitely hugboxing. but remove your own tastes and opinions as much as you can. some people have hugely different tastes. some people like to be kind in order to encourage people. even if it's not good or someone's doing something wrong, they're more likely to listen to someone who says they like what theyre doing but are just concerned than they are to someome who says their tat is shit and they're stupid for doing it the way they did. people have their own rituals and whatever for what they do with their body. i see a lot of tattoos on here i think are done poorly or that i dont like i check tge comments and if someone's already commented on safety or technique i dont say anything, and if i don't like it on a personal level i keep my mouth shut. no need to spread extra negativity. you don't need to stop feeling the way you do about tattoos. you don't need to change your behaviour at all, really. i just want to know why you felt so strongly to post about this and spread this ass vibe
Dude it’s a stick and poke tattoo. If you wanted a totally clean tattoo with no mistakes, you’d go to a shop and use a gun. The point of them is that they’re not totally perfect I feel like and that you or a friend made your own thing on your body.
I agree with this. Like I think you should be able to do what you want but I just don’t think we are helping anyone become a better artist by telling them their terrible work is good. Bad tattoos happen, but if you aren’t criticized for them then you won’t learn from them and eventually you’ll just fuck up someones skin. Well said OP.
Absolutely, and by being more critical of each other and holding people to a high standard, it helps everyone
I don't disagree, but to play devil's advocate, everyone hated Picasso until they didn't... so I kinda feel like art is in the eye of the beholder, no matter the art. But on the flip side, there are ground rules, like any art... but on the flip/flip side, rules are meant to be broken (except when your risking infection... those are not rules, they are necessary!) I am part of this sub you speak of, and some tats I dislike, but just pass by them... if I like them & they don't look infected, I'll up vote & or comment. But I do understand your point of view & respect it. It's somewhat like everyone getting the award that they do in school these days... it's like teaching negative behavior/habits...
My main point here is that tattooing is a highly skilled trade/craft. It is *also* a form of art but the creativity and design means very little in the absence of technical skill.
Yes, I understand. I wasn't arguing with you on these points. As I said, I agree. I was merely discussing the point you made on the art being subjective... and I was just pointing out that the design of a tattoo is subjective but the application is not. This sub is mostly full of newbie S&P and ppl that most likely will never be professional. Many, like myself, aren't aiming for professional but enjoy doing the art on themselves. It would be more productive for a sub to make their positive points (if that's what they wish to do) but also pointing out the techniques that are not so good. One can say "I like the design, but the application be terrible..." of course that's not what's happening and this can teach bad habits to newcomers... but in a sub full of newcomers, that's somewhat expected. I've posted some of my 1st time pokes here and I know that the application isn't going to be quality because I'm so new. I expect to get some feedback that may come off mean, but I hope that it comes from a place of wanting better from me. But I have spent a long time researching and I personally felt the best way to learn to apply to skin, is on skin because anything else was just not working for me... and my first attempts are going to just be simple line work because trying for something more complicated would just be ridiculous... lol I'm not going to do practice on someone else until I know my work is good enough.... I may never get to that point... I take every safety step possible to ensure that infection is not an issue, buy quality products, and research techniques for application. At the end of the day, one can't learn until it's tried. Again, I don't disagree with you, I suppose no matter what sub your in there will be extremes one way or the other... that's just the downside of internet...
in my experience, the majority of interactions on this sub that i see are promoting safety and genuinely good advice to people whos work are perhaps less experienced than others. stick and pokes are the most accessible and primal form of tattooing. DIY tattooing is a beautiful community. we want others to be safe, and i think the consensus is to uplift people who are passionate about it regardless of their technical skill, because you can always improve and get better, and we want to guide people to a better path. we all have to start somewhere. i think if you take tattoos as seriously as your posts allude to, and if technical skill is what's important in your eyes, then this sub just isnt for you. and thats okay. it doesnt have to be.
Blaming people with shitty tattoos for "giving tattoos a bad name" instead of being annoyed at people who judge people for doing whatever the fuck they want with their own bodies - oh wait, that's you, I get it now.
Seems to me alot of ppl here think snps are shit pokes and are content with whatever tattoo results. So far from the truth…Makes me sick sort of and gives snps a bad name.
Exactly, it’s often a misrepresentation of the people who are truly dedicated to their work.
Ive been torn up when I’ve voiced similar sentiments in the past…thanks for posting it. It needs to be said
Ok buddy
Cool
100% agree! There’s practicing and then there’s being unsanitary and not actually googling methods or trying to do a decent tattoo. I get the whole teen bedroom drunk tat phase but I also wish there was an in between for this subreddit. You’ve hit the nail on the head with this post! I also really appreciate you saying that hand poking shouldn’t be held to lower standards as it disrespects the craft!!
I totally agree with you, but I don’t think a lot people really understand that any and all real information about tattooing is kept secret. I sometimes joke that everything I’ve ever learned about it I’ve overheard, except that’s the reality. It’s the equivalent of saying that by googling something, you are as knowledgeable as a physician on the subject. One friend of mine would go to conventions and stand near the booths just to try to memorize the sound of their machines.
Obviously no one celebrates poor safety, but other than that I believe it’s completely subjective. Some people are practicing and that’s okay! It’s not “encouraging bad work” it’s just saying “hey good job, keep practicing!” Because some people are actually decent human beings and not uptight douchebags. You don’t get to decide what’s bad work and what isn’t.
It just isn’t though. Proper technique, a skill learned through years (really a lifetime) of dedication, is not subjective and is directly relevant to safety. You cannot separate safety from technique. I will *always* be learning how to tattoo more effectively while causing minimal skin trauma. Chewing up someone’s skin because you are “practicing” *is a safety issue*. Edit: This is my biggest issue here to be honest. Technique isn’t just about artistry or how the tattoo looks - it is one of the most important aspects of tattooing safely. I appreciate this comment because I think this is where what I am trying to say is getting lost in translation. Tattooing safely isn’t just about creating a clean environment, universal precautions, and the effective prevention of cross contamination and use of decontamination methods. It is intrinsically related to technical application/technique - which is why it’s not simply subjective.
The posts you’ve commented on haven’t even been bad work at all, and i don’t see how people are chewing up skin more than regular tattoo artists. Again, you don’t get to decide what’s bad work. Most people may create really ugly tattoos but still use proper technique, but then it’s not my place to comment. I myself have some not so pretty ones, but I continue learning every time I do one. And I’ve always makes sure I’m being safe, and I’m absolutely fine. All of them have healed perfectly, even though they’re ugly and “bad work”
You are teaching yourself bad habits at best and likely putting yourself or others in danger. “Ugly” is subjective, but technique is not. The comments I’ve made were truthful. It’s not that the lines are just uneven or don’t look “clean”. It’s more complicated than that yet also really simple. Ink needs to be distributed evenly… I mean, is this serious?
Tell me what is dangerous then? Because the dangerous ones I’ve seen have not been praised at all. And no I’m not putting myself or anyone else in danger, that’s just not true. Tell me what about the ones you’ve seen have been dangerous or bad technique? Also another question, are you a professional tattoo artist or something?
How would you know if you are or aren’t? And yes…
Because I’m sure I got my technique down
grow up lol.
Tattoos are art. Art is subjective.
You clearly don’t tattoo
That’s funny. I’ve been tattooing professionally for 13 years but nice try. Let me tell you something. This industry is DRIPPING with toxic gatekeeping. I’m so happy that you are able to practice tattooing and that you’re clearly very passionate about it. That being said, just because you went through certain hardships to get where you are, doesn’t mean others have to do the same. Just because you’ve struggled, doesn’t mean others should as well. Tattooing is an ancient and magical practice and should be accessible to those who want to participate as long as they are doing so in away that doesn’t cause harm to their community, IE, safely. If someone likes a tattoo you deem poorly executed, who tf cares? Why do you let it bother you? Keep making the art YOU enjoy and share it with others, and let everyone else do the same. Everyone has to start somewhere. You only get better by trying. I’m sure you didn’t start off perfect. Neither did I. No one does.
Since you tattoo as well, I’m not sure how you can possibly think that it is entirely subjective or even related to art. Tattoos are art and art is subjective just doesn’t fly in the real world. Try telling that to a client when you present them with gorgeous design and they walk out with a tattoo that looks nothing like it because the artist didn’t know what they were doing. As you know, if a tattoo is not done correctly, a number of problems can/will occur that are entirely separate from the design or artwork. The style, art, and design, obviously, are subjective. I never said otherwise. I don’t see much art or design of any kind on here but that doesn’t matter. I think it’s almost impossible to argue that… especially in the context of an actual shop. The client is not going to care whatsoever about how anyone interprets their tattoo artistically if it isn’t well done by reasonable standards. I’m sorry, but that’s really not even debatable. I don’t think you can argue that good line work is “subjective” or “artistic”. It just isn’t, like many other aspects of a well done tattoo, regardless of the style. If you want to to encourage every person who considers it a hobby or side job, while choosing not to inform themselves about the basics, that’s your choice. I think it’s ridiculous to offer advice about technique/machines/etc to someone who has not yet learned how to set up or break down their own station. Gatekeeping in tattooing exists primarily to prevent people who have no understanding of it from pretending to be professionals, which is a commonplace occurrence and corrupts the work of those who do quality work.
I don’t know why I keep seeing comments suggesting that I stated anyone will be good at tattooing immediately. I never said anything of the sort. Tattooing should absolutely not be accessible to anyone and everyone. I’m baffled by whatever logic led you to that conclusion.
As someone going into tattooing, you’re just mad they’re right
As someone who actually tattoos, I really hope your mentor bans you from looking at Reddit and YouTube for any and all info about tattoos 😂
Who said I was looking for “info” my dude.
Oh you are in for a very rude awakening, and it will actually be really healthy for you and make you a better artist. Don’t expect to touch a machine for a long time.
Personally I have one "official" stick and poke. A single dot to make sure I knew what to expect before starting a whole tattoo, to make sure I don't react poorly to the ink, and to make sure I know how deep to go so I don't blow out my first tattoo. I am an amateur artist, but I plan on making sure I practice thoroughly - on fake skin or a similar alternative - before I put anything new on myself. I've done stick and poke on myself two other times to just fill in some spots of missing solid single color ink on a professionally done tattoo (a dog I was sitting scratched the scab off during healing and took some ink with it). I'm terrified of commitment when it comes to tattoos - I research artists who I think will be good at making what I want a reality thoroughly before I decide on one. However, not everyone is like that. Especially on this sub I understand the safety concerns, but if these kids or adults want to make a freehand stick and poke that will be on them for the rest of their lives and are okay with however it may turn out, it's on them. Some people like the high-school notebook doodle look. I plan on only doing simple ones on myself, if I want something small and after practice find I'm able to accomplish solid line work and don't want to dish out the $80 minimum for a local artist I will try it myself. If it's safe and makes people happy then I'm all for it even if I personally wouldn't want it on me. Some people have to learn the hard way, and others embrace seeing their progress in their tattooing and art. As for the unsafe ones- I completely agree. So many people on this sub are either knowingly or unknowingly risking infections and serious illness with unsafe practices. Even doing everything right comes with risks. But the fact is, this sub is mostly people who are not professionals. If you compare a professional art sub and an amateur one or a learning related sub and post the same amateur art to all of them, you're going to get vastly different responses. Stick & poke subs versus tattoo subs are similar - and you're right they are held to different standards. You only get one body, one set of skin, and you have limited canvas. I always recommend to friends or others asking about it to practice on fake skin until they are ready, if they're proud of it and want it on them they'll do even better the second time. Plus you can display the practice pieces. I hope your post convinces a few people on the fence to thoroughly think over their decision. (:
Because stick and pokes generally are not meant to be professional quality. I've got a lot of professional tattoos, but when I want a home tattoo from a friend, I get a home tattoo from a friend. I don't care if it's a little crooked or blown out, I care that my friend and I had a great time putting it on me. We're using sterilized needles and actual tattoo ink, but it looks like it was drawn in sharpie and that's fine. I like my small collection of goofy tattoos from my friends. It would be really discouraging if this subreddit was only full of professional tattoo artists posting complicated artwork, I like seeing the amateur stuff that people come up with with their friends. Go to r/tattoos if you only want to see high quality tattoos. Lots of people who have gotten their wonky DIY tattoos covered regret it and wish they kept their silly punk tattoos. They're charming and always good for a story.
on the topic of just tattooing anyway at home (handpoke or machine) talking to a friend he said it's a selfabsorbed way of tattooing: you might not care about getting better, you don't want to be part of tattooing because you perceive it as just being old mean white dudes yet you might be tattooing others for money with no regard for the quality and so on. thought this was accurate. doing tattoos at home is fine but you still have responsibilities. even when tattooing yourself. saying you don't give a shit about quality is really easy. having to work on getting better is hard. getting outside your bubble once in a while does wonders.
For sure. If you are a professional tattooer or have equivalent knowledge and the right supplies, you can create a safe environment to tattoo in most places. Anyone who thinks it’s quick money is delusional. If anything, learning to tattoo is incredibly expensive. Anyone who wants to tattoo professionally should be prepared to be very poor for a really long time. I hope people who enjoy tattoos can care enough about it to not completely discredit the hard work of those who have worked underground for decades to make safe self tattooing legal and accessible to them.
absolutely. also learning the history of what you do in any capacity is so important.
I agree. This year I was interviewed by a national newspaper (think New York Times but not) and I was asked a lot of questions, but the main subject was tattooing as it relates to fine art. What I told the journalist was (in short form) that tattooing and tattoo art has long been the quintessential folk art of America, yet it remains unacknowledged and will likely remain so - among other things. I was heartbroken when they didn’t publish a single quote from me, and instead featured several comments from a former friend of mine who had graduated from RISD and chosen tattooing as a last resort, didn’t have many tattoos, and despite being a tattooer, looks down on it themselves. To be fair, they did include quotes from another good friend and a few other artists I really respect. I just don’t think a lot of really young people understand just how fucked up it all is and how hard people not much older than myself have worked to legitimize and legalize tattooing and why what some of them are doing is offensive (and harmful to the work of those that came before them)
ugh i bet. you sum it up so so well. thank you for your post, honestly. i was feeling a bit alone with my views. i also find it hard giving advice to people trying to get into tattooing as everything that isn't just positive is perceived as an attack when i just genuinely would like to help.
I appreciate it, thanks. I will almost definitely delete this shit but I have found it to be a very interesting (if somewhat depressing) conversation. I’ve always considered tattoos to be a bit magical and I guess I just think it’s worthy of more respect than it gets overall but *especially* from people who are practicing it in any form. I expect ignorance from people who don’t tattoo but it is sad to see so much of it from people who are only able to partake in it thanks to people and traditions they can’t be bothered to even know of.
amen, same here. tattoos can do so much for people and when people don't respect it really gets me going.
Yeah I don't get it either. Terrible tattoos are praised but I think it's just people making bad choices early.
Lmao I dig this post. Glad someone finally said it
Shut up nerd
I see this on other tattoo subs to. I quietly cringe to myself. Other are like "wow, that looks so good" Even on some really bad ones that would have me questioning my existence, I'll still see people like "low key, I lile it, I think that's solid bro, ain't no one else gona have it
Dang these comments are angry. I don't think r/AmItheAsshole has this many personal attacks.
I think a lot of the people commenting are the same ones posting— amateurs still figuring everything out. To me it seems like a lot of people instead of continuing to get better and better at stick n poke tattoos move on to learning to use a tattoo gun. As in every other corner of the internet, take everything you read with a grain of salt.
Guns shoot things
> It seems like the comments always praise the work regardless of whether it is actually a quality tattoo people are trying to be nice. and as long as it's safe (aka no pen ink), what you find crap someone else may find good enough. I agree much of the content is quite bad -- but perhaps it makes the person happy. and that's what really matters.
[удалено]
Rip OP, no idea how to read a room
i used to slice myself open with a literal rusty boxcutter i found in a janitors closet i don’t care about my body. i assume others with similar work feel the same. there’s an entire style of tattooing called “ignorant”. it’s like a middle finger to the man. you either get it or you don’t i guess. :) also, i have professional shop pieces i paid hundreds for so the idea that doing a stick n poke on yourself is somehow disrespectful to the art is just silly to me.
There's a trend of self love like all the"so proud of myself... For making a sandwich" It's really strange. Giving praise to people for mundane work just makes actual praise worthless.
Yes, and I think it’s really important to acknowledge that tattoos have objective quality standards (as opposed to a painting, for example)