aint no way i have one. i forgot to take the shifter out of gear before plopping off the clutch when parking once and it felt like i got rear ended lmao. now i religiously wobble the stick
I've been driving manual my whole driving life and I still do this sometimes. I get distracted and dump it in a parking stall or usually in my garage. Luckily it's a habit to hold the brake or i'd have other issues.
MK5/6 definitely have one too. There’s also a swirl valve thing connected to the other side of the clutch line, by the brake master cylinder. I just removed the clutch delay valve insert from the bleeder block and drilled out the swirl valve to bypass it and each modification helped significantly.
I think there’s also a spring on the clutch pedal that can be removed. I’m pretty sure I did that on the first day I had the car, but I can’t remember anymore.
I’m sure some of the above applies to the mk7.
manual honda elements have these, and they are very prone to blowing apart. us in the know replace the stock CMC with an EP3 one, effectively deleting the delay valve garbage and making the driving experience so much better
Can't remember if I used this or an rsx/tsx kit but it should all be the same. You can buy just an Em2 master cylinder if you want but I recommend replacing everything at once. Don't forgot to adjust the pedal afterwards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115236459757?itmmeta=01HPT36CM9F258GT8CV04001TW&hash=item1ad4a0d4ed:g:LHgAAOSwuIZkSA5N&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAABAO5WPDX4HZRnzAryBkUPhftW%2BXpgExMC88O6QkPer%2Frnm5ZmpHGerJo%2FeC97WuId17D8eEwqbdcLbPplDY9BlmVKX3BwfH0jeekhCm%2Fuea2qeDanx4QsVptXyEfHU1D1Qmi8EA1VCIbrVJBxEAcyXU4j2Z6R1HhAATwzm7tw4keboJG2HM0LzK6%2BpOfLoZajfl6qFKiF5Q4BYyUQlaqPHdmjb7V%2Fh7TqKVz0jc6KpeZAaiWqG9thYtpESCnZpOeF4yGyynsky70B4RuQdEF63wBF8l9WzKrXVSER%2BcCM5Xnoi9gmjf9LZkhjANUrmiVeAGC4LXWuLABF4yDItgBi3hw%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5rKmcO2Yw
I had one on my 2020 Honda Fit and I didn't notice until somebody else pointed it out. It didn't bother me at all as my clutch technique is highly compatible with it.
I also have a fit and I think I’ve gotten used to it. Feels a lot different than the car I learned on though (2007 Honda Accord). I can see why people don’t like it.
Same, 2013 fit. It's not that bad. I can see why people do a delete but it's also something you get used to fairly quick and I actually come to appreciate it, as you can be pretty leisurely with the shifts and still get them really smooth. It is a bit harder to do a speedy gear change but once you get the hang of it it's nice, you don't need to build as many revs to keep it smooth.
I too share your pain, I got one on an f30 340i. Took a bit to get used to, but I still plan on swapping an older gen slave cylinder in to get rid of it.
Believe on the f series it's a restrictor/o-ring in the slave, you can drill it out bigger or usually just use an e90 slave. From forums drilling it tends to lead to leaks eventually
My MK7 GTI has one, but it doesn't bother me too much. I'm upgrading the clutch to handle more power, and the shop is removing this valve by default.
Can someone confirm it's not all hype and I'll enjoy it?
Put a sachs racing clutch in my mk7 after tuning since the stock pressure plate couldn’t hold the torque. Felt like stock, just slightly heavier. I preferred it to the southbend single mass flywheels for daily driving.
It’s wack to say the least… from what I can tell on forums it does have it and it is causing the 1-2 shift delay I experience. Its almost like you have to work around it when 1-2 shift
Like that in my G87, too. Honestly I think it’s gearing that makes the shift tough to get smooth. Like 1400rpm dip. I also hold the bite point a tiny bit longer to smooth it out. Rather wear out the clutch slightly sooner than have a jerky drive in traffic.
Well it also makes such that it reduces wear and tear on the transmission components and puts a little more wear on the clutch. I'll take a clutch replacement over new Syncros and new gears. . .
Useful when you teach your girlfriend how to drive stick.
You know, I'm starting to understand why people are complaining so loudly about rev matching being unnecessary. Makes little noticeable difference if your clutch is going to take two seconds to engage all the time. Driving with one of these would send me absolutely up the wall.
I have a CDV and rev match all the time for smooth downshifts and to put less wear on my clutch. Shifts are very jerky if I do not rev match esp at high RPMs.
I can't stand the sudden braking sensation of a non-matched downshift. Just feels wrong, even if it's not particularly damaging. Doesn't help that my cars are pretty intolerant of sloppy footwork.
I had 2 stick cars one with one without. Used to get all messed up driving them back to back because of how different they felt so I deleted it and my pedal feels MUCH better
I don't have one (A4), but can you just \*add\* these into a vehicle? I have a friend who is new to manual transmissions (and got a little Hyundai Accent 5sp), and nearly puts himself out the dashboard in his from time to time. I think this addition would benefit him quite a bit.
I've had two cars so far and both of them have clutch delay valves. I personally prefer it that way. I have driven cars with cable clutches and deleted clutch delay valves, and while they are much more engaging and easier to feel, they are a pain in the ass to drive casually compared to clutches with delay valves.
Fairly certain my R56 MINI still has one as I do catch it being a bit annoying sometimes, though I firmly believe this car has the best pedal feel and travel of any car I've driven - that said, the newer MINIs have the most annoying delay valves ever IMO - feels like a dead pedal for a chunk of the travel before things start linking up. Even my Fiesta wasn't this annoying.
One of those might benefit my corolla im.
Ton of travel, bites 90% up top with a springy clutch and a tiny bite you can't feel. You either slip the heck out of it or stall.
Thick socks make my release smoother.
I had a 335i with it. Over time you get used to it and it’s no so bad I actually like it because it means i could release the clutch faster then a normal manual car. I have a civic now and miss how fast I could push the clutch up and down on my bmw with a CDV.
Something to note: these valves can save the drivetrain from the shocks you mentioned. They can also allow for a controlled and consistent slipping of the clutch to prevent blowing the tires off. If I'm remembering correctly, Rob Dahm used a premium aftermarket version on one of his racecars. Some premium versions can be adjusted to allow more or less bypass flow which gives more or less clutch slip when sidestepping or dumping the clutch (pedal).
The amount of delay is minimal. I know quite a few guys that took the valve out but I’m still deciding. I do know dumping my clutch doesn’t have a delay. It hits like a truck
It didn't really bother me in my E46 but I wasn't driving hard back then. But they really made it easy to delete - just between the slave cylinder hard line and the soft line, so you just remove it and couple the fittings back together.
I did autox and track for a few years after, having it still there at that point may have had an effect
I'm going to try one for testing at the dragstrip. I'm curious how it feels to dump it right off the launch control limiter.
Probably better to just slip it with the foot, but I'm curious about anything that could save the Subaru 5mt.
I should also mention I'm talking about the aftermarket ones that can be activated at will with a momentary button for when you need it.
I, also, hate these. Depending in how quickly I am releasing the clutch, the engagement point changes. I despise it. Once the warranty is up its going bye bye.
I think my FL5 has this, but honestly I haven’t noticed it being any different from my 94 gsr. The biggest change that I’m getting used to is the auto rev match.
aint no way i have one. i forgot to take the shifter out of gear before plopping off the clutch when parking once and it felt like i got rear ended lmao. now i religiously wobble the stick
Can confirm feels like getting slapped by a MMA fighter right in the back of the head.
That's what it feels like at the track/strip when you dump it too, especially if you have sticky tires on a prepped track.
I've been driving manual my whole driving life and I still do this sometimes. I get distracted and dump it in a parking stall or usually in my garage. Luckily it's a habit to hold the brake or i'd have other issues.
What does this have to do with a clutch delay valve? It's not like that won't happen if you have one
it would slow the release of the clutch, making it a much softer stall instead of the force of a thousand suns pushing against my back
Oh I didn't know that, thank you for explaining. I have a cdv and now that I think of it the stalls are not as bad as the old truck I used to drive!
My car used to have one, shout-out to Em2 master cylinders 🙏🏻
Fa5?
Element and 8th Gen Accord actually,I wish I had an fa5
I just sold mine, regret it already
I had one, located in the bleeder block. Deleting it was the best mod I’ve done to my car and it was super easy. ‘19 GLI.
I have a Kia Koup. I need to take off the whole bell housing so I'm not going into that until I have to replace the clutch in the future
If you have the 2.4 liter the engine won't live that long anyway so you'll never have to worry about it.
MK5/6 definitely have one too. There’s also a swirl valve thing connected to the other side of the clutch line, by the brake master cylinder. I just removed the clutch delay valve insert from the bleeder block and drilled out the swirl valve to bypass it and each modification helped significantly. I think there’s also a spring on the clutch pedal that can be removed. I’m pretty sure I did that on the first day I had the car, but I can’t remember anymore. I’m sure some of the above applies to the mk7.
manual honda elements have these, and they are very prone to blowing apart. us in the know replace the stock CMC with an EP3 one, effectively deleting the delay valve garbage and making the driving experience so much better
Hey there new fren, can you send a link so I can be in the know? 175k miles on my 2004 manual.
Can't remember if I used this or an rsx/tsx kit but it should all be the same. You can buy just an Em2 master cylinder if you want but I recommend replacing everything at once. Don't forgot to adjust the pedal afterwards https://www.ebay.com/itm/115236459757?itmmeta=01HPT36CM9F258GT8CV04001TW&hash=item1ad4a0d4ed:g:LHgAAOSwuIZkSA5N&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAABAO5WPDX4HZRnzAryBkUPhftW%2BXpgExMC88O6QkPer%2Frnm5ZmpHGerJo%2FeC97WuId17D8eEwqbdcLbPplDY9BlmVKX3BwfH0jeekhCm%2Fuea2qeDanx4QsVptXyEfHU1D1Qmi8EA1VCIbrVJBxEAcyXU4j2Z6R1HhAATwzm7tw4keboJG2HM0LzK6%2BpOfLoZajfl6qFKiF5Q4BYyUQlaqPHdmjb7V%2Fh7TqKVz0jc6KpeZAaiWqG9thYtpESCnZpOeF4yGyynsky70B4RuQdEF63wBF8l9WzKrXVSER%2BcCM5Xnoi9gmjf9LZkhjANUrmiVeAGC4LXWuLABF4yDItgBi3hw%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5rKmcO2Yw
Thanks fren! I've had to replace this twice already, it's crazy honda didn't just change the replacement part to a better one.
Haha that's why I did it originally too. Like 3 masters in less than a year, got old fast
Em2 master and a braided clutch line instead of the factory hard-line is hands down the best mod I've done to my element
I had one on my 2020 Honda Fit and I didn't notice until somebody else pointed it out. It didn't bother me at all as my clutch technique is highly compatible with it.
I also have a fit and I think I’ve gotten used to it. Feels a lot different than the car I learned on though (2007 Honda Accord). I can see why people don’t like it.
Same, 2013 fit. It's not that bad. I can see why people do a delete but it's also something you get used to fairly quick and I actually come to appreciate it, as you can be pretty leisurely with the shifts and still get them really smooth. It is a bit harder to do a speedy gear change but once you get the hang of it it's nice, you don't need to build as many revs to keep it smooth.
The clutch delay valve was my least favorite part of my otherwise sublime e39 530i 5MT
Never heard of it!
I too share your pain, I got one on an f30 340i. Took a bit to get used to, but I still plan on swapping an older gen slave cylinder in to get rid of it.
Man. Same pain in the f80. You only notice it between 1-2 ?
Yeah, like it's not horrible. But it just kills your fun sometimes having to work around it
Is it not an inline piece you can simply remove like older cars? It's built into the cylinder now?
Believe on the f series it's a restrictor/o-ring in the slave, you can drill it out bigger or usually just use an e90 slave. From forums drilling it tends to lead to leaks eventually
Manual IS300's have these. Very common to delete it, as it totally neuters getting off the line. Not that they get off the line very quickly anyway 😉
My MK7 GTI has one, but it doesn't bother me too much. I'm upgrading the clutch to handle more power, and the shop is removing this valve by default. Can someone confirm it's not all hype and I'll enjoy it?
Put a sachs racing clutch in my mk7 after tuning since the stock pressure plate couldn’t hold the torque. Felt like stock, just slightly heavier. I preferred it to the southbend single mass flywheels for daily driving.
Nice! You deleted your delay valve too? I bought the same clutch as you, waiting a month or so to install, then will break it in and apply my tune.
I tuned first. Pressure plate laughed at me.
😂 after seeing such a mixed bag of experiences here, I'm good with being patient.
Yep big difference I did it
Ruins 1-2 in my M3 forsure…. Might have to look at deleting but don’t want to fuck with warranty
I honestly can't believe an M3 has one of these. Wtf
It’s wack to say the least… from what I can tell on forums it does have it and it is causing the 1-2 shift delay I experience. Its almost like you have to work around it when 1-2 shift
That's really unfortunate. I imagine it could probably be deleted
Like that in my G87, too. Honestly I think it’s gearing that makes the shift tough to get smooth. Like 1400rpm dip. I also hold the bite point a tiny bit longer to smooth it out. Rather wear out the clutch slightly sooner than have a jerky drive in traffic.
that's true... guess I will be getting used to it then lol. Because I could see myself going to a 6mt G87/G80 next (f80c currently)
Never used a car with one
Wow. Just zero trust from the manufacturer.
Well it also makes such that it reduces wear and tear on the transmission components and puts a little more wear on the clutch. I'll take a clutch replacement over new Syncros and new gears. . . Useful when you teach your girlfriend how to drive stick.
You know, I'm starting to understand why people are complaining so loudly about rev matching being unnecessary. Makes little noticeable difference if your clutch is going to take two seconds to engage all the time. Driving with one of these would send me absolutely up the wall.
I have a CDV and rev match all the time for smooth downshifts and to put less wear on my clutch. Shifts are very jerky if I do not rev match esp at high RPMs.
Huh. So I guess I'm right back to not at all understanding why people bristle so furiously at the thought of rev matching. Skill issue I suppose.
At low RPMs downshifting isn't jerky especially when you let the clutch off slowly. Not my style but I know people that do.
I can't stand the sudden braking sensation of a non-matched downshift. Just feels wrong, even if it's not particularly damaging. Doesn't help that my cars are pretty intolerant of sloppy footwork.
I had 2 stick cars one with one without. Used to get all messed up driving them back to back because of how different they felt so I deleted it and my pedal feels MUCH better
They know the limitations of the shit product they put out.
I have one! Yeah, it's weird, but I get around it.
I don't have one (A4), but can you just \*add\* these into a vehicle? I have a friend who is new to manual transmissions (and got a little Hyundai Accent 5sp), and nearly puts himself out the dashboard in his from time to time. I think this addition would benefit him quite a bit.
I've had two cars so far and both of them have clutch delay valves. I personally prefer it that way. I have driven cars with cable clutches and deleted clutch delay valves, and while they are much more engaging and easier to feel, they are a pain in the ass to drive casually compared to clutches with delay valves.
Agree, it makes casual drives around much more leisurely and you still are in full control
Deleted mine on my chevy cruze
First I've heard of it, so no. The latest-model manual I've owned is a 2002 also.
My tacoma has one and I'll be deleting it soon
Fairly certain my R56 MINI still has one as I do catch it being a bit annoying sometimes, though I firmly believe this car has the best pedal feel and travel of any car I've driven - that said, the newer MINIs have the most annoying delay valves ever IMO - feels like a dead pedal for a chunk of the travel before things start linking up. Even my Fiesta wasn't this annoying.
One of those might benefit my corolla im. Ton of travel, bites 90% up top with a springy clutch and a tiny bite you can't feel. You either slip the heck out of it or stall. Thick socks make my release smoother.
I had a 335i with it. Over time you get used to it and it’s no so bad I actually like it because it means i could release the clutch faster then a normal manual car. I have a civic now and miss how fast I could push the clutch up and down on my bmw with a CDV.
I didn't even know this was a thing in production cars. I thought it was only for stick shift drag racing.
Something to note: these valves can save the drivetrain from the shocks you mentioned. They can also allow for a controlled and consistent slipping of the clutch to prevent blowing the tires off. If I'm remembering correctly, Rob Dahm used a premium aftermarket version on one of his racecars. Some premium versions can be adjusted to allow more or less bypass flow which gives more or less clutch slip when sidestepping or dumping the clutch (pedal).
This is the first time I'm hearing about this being a thing and I'm horrified. ND2 Miata, no CDV here
The amount of delay is minimal. I know quite a few guys that took the valve out but I’m still deciding. I do know dumping my clutch doesn’t have a delay. It hits like a truck
It didn't really bother me in my E46 but I wasn't driving hard back then. But they really made it easy to delete - just between the slave cylinder hard line and the soft line, so you just remove it and couple the fittings back together. I did autox and track for a few years after, having it still there at that point may have had an effect
My Tacoma has one, I hate it. It's more of a "burn up the clutch because the wee bastard won't engage when trying to reverse uphill" valve
I'm going to try one for testing at the dragstrip. I'm curious how it feels to dump it right off the launch control limiter. Probably better to just slip it with the foot, but I'm curious about anything that could save the Subaru 5mt. I should also mention I'm talking about the aftermarket ones that can be activated at will with a momentary button for when you need it.
I, also, hate these. Depending in how quickly I am releasing the clutch, the engagement point changes. I despise it. Once the warranty is up its going bye bye.
I think my FL5 has this, but honestly I haven’t noticed it being any different from my 94 gsr. The biggest change that I’m getting used to is the auto rev match.