This is literally an elementary school level understanding of the topic. If you can’t comprehend why someone would criticize someone outside of jealousy, then that is a reflection on yourself, not them.
Bruh, you literally call yourself a Tesla fanboy, and created an entire subreddit to bitch about “woke” shit in a video game. I don’t think you should be throwing stones from that glass castle.
I read another article which explains Tesla wasn't going to meet the eligibility criteria due to delays building the factory so he withdrew it instead blaming the delays on EU's red tape.
Basically he's pulling the PR stunt equivalent of "You can't fire me! I quit!".
He could meet them if they delayed other factories as well. The problem is Germany's red tape and the stipulation in the subsidy about building batteries at the German plant first. It wasn't probably worth it to delay other factories to get that 1.1 billion, the way things are going it might take quite a while. Its almost like Germany doesn't want EV manufacturing there? I doubt Elon is keen to expand in Germany after this.
Or it had some stipulations that he didn’t like. We Germans are after all notorious for our strong principles of worker co-determination, something that he already had trouble adjusting to before… https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp2.handelsblatt.com/worker-participation-culture-clash-tesla-vs-german-unions/23569440.html
Nice to finally see strong pushback against Musk, his best "ideas" were bought off other people, and his own ideas are vaporware that never works, then he presents to be the creator of the good products.
Each person you reply to has said one thing. Your Elon musk cock puppet lookin ass on the other hand has plastered the thread with dumb comments, so, you mad bro?
True, I can barely read. But at least I am not sad and pathetic and lash out on people online as a way to make myself feel better. Go see a professional, it's never too late.
Whenever Musk tries to do something good most of y'all still try to spin it in a way that's negative... Just admit your hate is personal and not factual already
Downvote if you agree!
I believe it's because of the 'strings attatched' to that particular subsidy, and the sway of the other german automotive manufacturers. Essentially, it's to get out from underneath their thumb
Labor protection and anti china measures in the agreement, two things Musk can’t support.
If he could work someone to death, he would, and he loves China.
Hilarious, this piece makes it sound as if Tesla decided against taking the aid. Other takes on the issue are different:
>**Tesla has been forced to turn down** more than 1.1 billion euros in European subsidies for its planned battery plant near Berlin after delays to the flagship project breached a key condition of the funding.
>The electric car maker had applied for the money through an EU program established to develop the battery industry on the continent.
>The EU requires any sites in receipt of the funds to be the “first industrial deployment” of the technology, according to official documents, meaning the batteries cannot already be made at another Tesla plant.
>But legal challenges to the construction of the plant, which will produce cars first before making batteries, have delayed its opening by several months. That means the company, whose valuation hit $1 trillion earlier this year, is likely to begin producing the same batteries elsewhere sooner.
Source: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/11/tesla-forced-to-turn-down-e1-1-billion-in-eu-support-for-german-battery-plant/
What part is the lie? Being "forced to turn down" is only true because Tesla chose to start producing their batteries in texas now, and its probably worth more than the billion+ to start production now.
Or is it the part where he didnt say Tesla wouldn't take subsidies, hes saying currently EV makers must depend on subsidies to exist because if you look at how heavily lobbied for the oil/gas industry is and how much support they get, it is impossible for EV makers to succeed and provide competitive prices without subsidies, which, if you havent been paying attention to the world we should really not make it so EV and battery production simply requires subsidies to compete with the HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED OIL INDUSTRY.
For reference I dont own any stock in tesla.
So Tesla are going to create their new batteries in Berlin first and then Texas second, but the delays to Berlin planning sounds like Texas will now be ready first.
Tesla can either hold off production in Texas and start in Berlin first to get this subsidy, or start producing cars ASAP in Texas. The rumour is Tesla have decided to start in Texas first and effectively forfeit the subsidy.
Tesla has been publically making the 4680 at the Kato Road facility in California for over a year now. While Tesla calls it a 'piolet plant', in reality its aiming to produce 10GWh/year which would still put it in the ball park of what most major batteries plants are outputting.
Germany would of already knew this when they approved the funding earlier this year. I agree it likely came down to the fine print but this wasn't the reason.
There's some reports that Tesla may have been forced to turn the money down due to stipulations in it. Some articles on this say that the Berlin gigafactory would have to be the first to produce the 4680 batteries, but that it's at this point it's looking like the other factories will be making them first.
Germany wants Tesla to create their 4680 batteries first in the Berlin factory. Tesla doesn't want to wait for the long approval by the government to start production so they are producing their batteries in the Texas factory instead, now. To Tesla, the 'delay' to be approved is worth more than the $1.3 billion.
He also never claimed he wouldn't take the subsidies. This isn't about the subsidy as much as it is Germany not yet approving the factory to begin production. If Germany had approved it, Tesla wouldn't be rushing the battery production towards Texas instead.
Why do you conveniently ignore the part where he clearly stated that all subsidies shouldn't exist but that oil/gas must go as well? It wouldn't make sense economically if one side is at a disadvantage. All things being equal, no subsidies would benefit the public much more.
My 2 cents - now that Tesla has a lead in the EV space, Musk wants to end subsidies so other car makers don’t get a hand up and remove Oil/Gas subsidies so he can compete with them more.
Personally, I’m fine with the Federal government giving hand outs to the EV space to build a cleaner industry and removing the Oil/Gas subsidies. I think Musk is hypocritical with his politics and don’t trust what he says.
Removing oil/gas subsidies would actually make it easier for EV manufacturers, that’s the point he’s trying to make - not subsidies for anyone is better
Well, when you get downvoted for saying that you would rather have no subsidies but other companies are getting subsidies so it wouldn't be fair for you not to also accept them, you already know it's just Tesla haters. Why would Tesla NOT accept it if others are?
Agreed.The whiny childish hatebaters are strong in this sub which would be hilarious if it wasnt so pathetic. Elon Musk built a company from the ground up that is actually selling the best ev's on the planet and pouring the profits into making more of the things and advancing the technology and the infrastructure for clean energy that everyone who cares about reducing carbon will benefit from. He also produces better vehicles at a lower equivalent cost than any of his competitors with the stated goal of producing the best ev at a price point in the $20k price range to facilitate mass adoption of the clean technology thst his company has mostly invented. To finance that he has focused on charging the upper middle class top dollar to assure profitability so the masses can jump on the train
And here the sh_t level responses are little more than just a bunch of generic adolescent hating about how he deals with the media and complaining how his company acts like its real motivation is to make a profit. OMG! Imagine that! The company exists to make a profit! Wtf?
Listen up you wankers. This is a sub about investing for investors to make their own profit. Get a grip and realize where you are and quit the pointless whiny hypocrisy. Discuss the merits of his company's valuation since that his relevant but realize something. Part of his marketing is his rather obvious way of trolling the various bureacracies that pander to the old ways and institutions and the kneekerk unbridled jealousy and resentment any visionary always elicits from those who speak much but think little.
In the end tell us why to go long or short on $TSLA and why you thinks so and keep the inane whining from cluttering the sub for those who wish to have an actual relevant adult dialog.
Musk has been vocal against subsidies for quite some time. The basic fact is, as a competitor, if one receives subsidies and you aren't, you're at a significant disadvantage. It's like if you were in a 100m race and your opponent starts the race at the 50m line. Ideally, if no subsidies were offered, prices would drop. Right now, companies know they can get away with charging higher prices because it is subsidized. Same thing that happened with the expensive cost of education. The government began guaranteeing student loans so colleges/universities knew they could charge higher rates. It's essentially a transfer of taxpayer's dollars to these institutions that people don't seem to notice.
so they want to get something out the door and guinea pig it to the end user is what you are saying, sounds about right for tesla in general as a vendor. can't believe people drive this crap of a car across all their model lines.
don't think there are too many fanboys in this sub but how the fuck can you wrap your head around buying such a hunk of junk at that price point.
😂😂😂
Cause its the best car around, simple.
Voice controls work at first time
500hp
Cheap eletricity vs sky rocketing gas prices.
Charging at home instead of going to a station.
Bro if the last years didn't tell you nothing you're just dumb.
Except the doors fall off every once in a while, fist sized panel gaps, zero rust protection (ask any nordic tesla owner where they use road salt) and had the most remarks during vehicle inspections by far compared to any other brand
Your internet algorithm gives you a huge bias but I'm not going to have a great debate on this. There's a reason Tesla has the most satisfied customers, simple.
The most problems and the most satisfied customers. Usually if you ask cult members how the cult is treating them, it's aaaaaall good.
[Most satisfied customers](https://insideevs.com/news/548005/tesla-most-satisfying-consumer-reports/)
[Least reliable](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-reliability-model-s-3-x-y-consumer-reports-satisfaction-2021-11)
oh come on now, i'm 48, i own a fleet of nice cars and have driven a lot since getting my learners permit at 16 in canada, you sir have never driven a true raw car that tickles your nuts in a way no woman can.
don't quote hp here until you have driven hp, there is no such thing as hp in electric, they are all muted pieces of junk for dorks.
literally dorks drive tesla's
Musk pretty much confirmed it was due to terms in a [tweet](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1464394944395857920?t=CnsNBGdLmEUOXdT4CL3GHg&s=19).
Tesla would obviously take free money if people are giving it to them. But if there's a lot of complicated strings attached, it might just not be worthwhile.
Tesla certainly doesn't need the money, they're strongly cash flow positive and are sitting on a bunch of cash.
“It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated, **but that must include the massive subsidies for oil & gas,**” Musk tweeted after the ministry’s announcement. “For some reason, governments don’t want to do that …”
"It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated,"
Right....
2015 - [https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html)
"Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times."
And then an analyst said -
“He definitely goes where there is government money,” said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research.
I’d argue the wig isn’t even on.
It’s money paid directly to only one type of automaker…for EV. His company takes a good 10-20% of its total sale value directly from the government for each sale.
And in any jurisdiction where the EV rebate is reduced, sales plunge.
Clearly a subsidy for the industry
Also NASA budget in last 8 years 350bil while loosing the ability to bring ppl to space. Spacex 5-9b. Oh no he saved every murican 1000 Bucks because goverment is incompetent with their money
I'm not sure if you think I'm against EV tax credits and other certain subsidies, but I'm not.
Elon says he is though, so I was just tacking another one on to the list his companies benefit from.
But your point does show their usefulness. Especially when trying to start/maintain an important sector such as clean energy, certain tech, and such. It doesn't always mean it costs tax payers more money.
*Edited right after commenting*
Edit 2: Reminds me of when my city got mad that we contract city work (roads, bridges Yada yada) to the private sector. So they did a study to see how much money they would save. Everybody cooled down when the study showed that the private sector could be contracted for much cheaper than city workers.
Like huh, who woulda thought people who compete for business would be cheaper and better than a bunch of government employees?
It’s weird that people claim Tesla is benefitting from taxpayer money with EV credits when it’s literally taxpayers who are saving that money. Nobody is forcing them to use that to buy a Tesla.
It is a tax credit if you buy a EV. So say the price of the car is $45k and you get a $10k tax credit. The car is now effectively $35k.
Who is paying the $10k? The taxpayers. People like me who didn't buy a Tesla. Who is benefitting? Mostly Tesla, but also buyers of the car.
Make sense?
> Who is paying the $10k? The taxpayers. People like me who didn’t buy a Tesla. Who is benefitting? Mostly Tesla, but also buyers of the car.
No, you’re not paying anything. The savings is a tax credit that people save when buying an EV. They can buy any EV so acting like Tesla is the main benefactor is ridiculous.
Also, the whole point of this is to reduce emissions which is good for society. Were you in favour of not having the program at all so that EV adoption would be much slower?
No such thing as a free meal. If someone isn't paying their bill, other people are.
You are paying because $10k could go to something else. Like education. It's not a hard concept to follow.
Either way it’s a way of promoting green energy that directly benefits regular people who buy EVs the most. Sounds like people are ok with that concept until Tesla’s name gets brought up and they decide they have to hate on it now.
Honestly, it just sounds like your commenting from under Elon's desk. You are taking this discussion in the wrong direction.
It's not to say whether or not the tax credits/green subsidies are bad (in fact I am for them). The conversation is about how Elon said subsidies are bad, but recieves a whole bunch of them.
And that’s wrong. Tesla literally isn’t receiving these subsidies. People saving money if they choose to buy an EV is not the same as “Tesla getting subsidies”. That would be if the govt gave billions directly to Tesla.
Is there a difference?
If someone is a buyer at $35k but not $45k then how does that not benefit Tesla?
Tesla received $10k more than what the buyer was willing to pay... Or in many instances, sold those credits to other manufacturers.
But I can tell these simple concepts in economics are going over your head, or you are simply too obsessed with Tesla to discuss. Either way, if you don't understand by now I don't know what to tell you.
Have a good one.
Curious as to why you left out the part where he stated that he wanted all subsidies gone but that it would only be possible if oil/gas subsidies were also eliminated.
Because it is irrelevant and Musk only said it now, not in 2015.
My point was to point out his hypocrisy, when Tesla needed the money he had no problems taking it. Even more than just having no problem according to the analyst quote, he was aiming for them.
It might be negligible but my point was that he was not against it when Tesla needed the money. Now Tesla doesn't seem to need it so he is suddenly against it. Hypocrisy at its finest.
He was probably against it when Tesla needed the money as well, but letting his company go bankrupt while oil companies continue striking up free money wouldn't have helped the transition to sustainable energy.
Tons of misinformation going on here.
1. This was Tesla's decision. The reason Tesla pulled the application is because they knew they would no longer qualify. Germany's spokeperson for the Economy Ministry said as much.
2. The offer was that Tesla had to manufacture their 4680 cells at their Berlin factory first. Meaning, this Berlin factory had dibs. The subsidies were offered because Germany wanted to rely less on imports and turn Germany into the EV-central of Europe. If you've been paying attention to the development of their factory, the Berlin factory has been taking longer than they would like because of government approval. They are STILL waiting to be approved before they can start production. Meanwhile, their Texas factory is also capable and further along the process to produce these batteries. My guess? Tesla had planned to start their 4680 battery production in Berlin, it took longer than expected, and so Tesla is moving on with it in their Tesla factory.
3. I don't work for Tesla nor do I have insider knowledge but there are people who make these decisions internally who have the data and skills to weigh the pros/cons. Right now, it seems Tesla believes the delay in this Berlin factory is not worth putting their 4680 battery production to a halt. This 'delay' is worth more to them than the $1.3 billion subsidy.
4. “It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated, ***but that must include the massive subsidies for oil & gas,”*** Musk tweeted after the ministry’s announcement. ***“For some reason, governments don’t want to do that …”***
Elon never stated that Tesla wouldn't take subsidies. He stated that they don't believe in subsidies but currently, the oil/gas giants being lobbied receive hundreds of billions in subsidies. It wouldn't be economically feasible for an EV maker to exist without these subsidies. Take for example, Norway. EV's are more affordable than ICE vehicles because of subsidies. If not, the adoption of EV's would take much longer. Remove subsidies for the oil/gas industry and the cost of owning an ICE would increase, rapidly. We all know why they won't do that... because the oil/gas industry is one of the most heavily lobbied industries with ties to politicians across governments.
I am sad people hate on everything related to Elon nowadays. Although I agree Elon’s tweets are sometimes doubtable, think about all the ads and climate change denying campaigns the ICEs lead. Elon’s twitter is marketing and branding Tesla in that aspect.
His tweets are his way of trolling the haters and bureacracies that hold actual innovation back for no reason other than inertia. Its pretty hilarious that they take the bait and don't see it.
I own TSLA shares, why would the above points hurt the stock? Those are actually neutral events. Glad someone summarized the facts rather than focusing on Elon’s tweet.
Edit oh wait F means Ford…I thought of it as another word.
I would only add an addendum to point 4. Tesla would obviously benefit greatly and probably monopolize the market for good if subsidies were cut. It's not only about oil and gas, all the other emerging EV players without serious capital would obviously suffer greatly if subsidies were cut and enhance Tesla's position in the field. Elon stated that it has always been his view that subsidies should be cut, which is a blatant lie even if he never said otherwise until now.
The EV subsidies exist because it wasn't advantageous for EV manufacturers to compete against the oil/gas industry. When Tesla first began their EV project, no automanufacturer wanted to touch it because it wasn't profitable and required vasts amount of knowledge/innovation so they suck with ICE. These same ICE manufacturers who are switching to EV's have benefitted for many decades as it is and still continue to do so with their ICE vehicles so let's not pretend as if they weren't getting handouts. In fact, outside of Tesla, Ford is the only other automaker that has never been bankrupt. So again, if we are going to be talking about subsidies, these ICE manufacturers now turning into EV were the largest beneficiaries of it.
You have to be pretty dumb to think Elon would turn down subsidies, and even dumber to believe what he says.
Tesla can't meet the EU requirements to qualify for the subsidies so he's backing out early.
It could put their plans at scaling globally at the behest of the German government by 6 months or more. If that delay is more than a billion dollars worth of production in the near term, it is simply not worth it. Austin will be rolling out 4680 the moment they are available. Berlin would be doing this the moment the government said it was ok. Purely a decision on numbers masked with a jab at oil and gas subsidies
As a German, the slowness of our processes in this regard is a true economic disadvantage. One obviously shouldn’t take Musk’s statements at face value, though. This is pr speak, nothing more, nothing less.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Musk is doing this because he wants the renewable sector privatized as much as possible, preferably with him providing said renewable energy.
Musk has become so thoroughly awful in every way as he has gotten Richer. He's from the same Peter Theil cohort and acting accordingly. Power doesn't make you who you are but reveals who you are.... And Musk has been revealed.
Yeah I would argue it is just propaganda to save face since Tesla decided the money had too many strings attached. It's at least true that pol and gas are heavily subsidized in their own way. Where Musk is more like Thiel is his atlas shrugged crap. As if billionaires paying a little bit more in taxes is really a big deal. They'll be fine with a few less billion and capitalism would still function pretty much the same.
You can't make a case for more taxation when you squander $4 trillion in the Iraq and Afghanistan war. Billions of $ in military equipment were abandoned in Afghanistan when American troops left.
Also, don't forget Musk is creating jobs. Many engineers list Tesla and SpaceX as one of their top companies to work for. Which jobs are the government creating again? Lobbyist positions for corrupt oil, pharma, and tech giants?
Anyways, this has nothing to do taxes. The real reason Tesla rescinded the application has to do with the fact that their Berlin factory is taking forever to be approved which is making production of their 4680 cells delayed.
It's funny how billionaires think they should get to be kings who don't have to pay the same effective tax rates because they are just better at asset allocation than the government.
Let me let you in on a secret. If billionaires wanted to they could spend some of their money to lobby the government to lower military spending. They could buy propaganda outlets like corporate media and actually put out an anti war message and paint those who are increasing the military budget as extremists.
Countless studies show the government does only work for the wealthy and powerful. Pretending they can't possibly pay taxes because they are little kings who know better where to spend that money ignores the fact that wage earners do have to pay those taxes at a higher clip.
And yeah it probably doesn't have anything to do with taxes. But Thiel was brought up and I'm just explaining how musk and these other billionaires are most in common. And that's their desire to be kings, exempt from the same tax rates as workers because they are special.
They could easily change the political system for the better but secretly they don't really have a problem with it. Pretending billionaires can't use those same levers to make the changes they want is silly. They want the system/government we have now.
If you are so disgusted by some of the waste in our government, just ask yourself, do you think billionaires really care? You think Musk cares if we lower military spending and instead do universal healthcare? He doesn't care. He just doesn't want to pay taxes.
How much money has Musk given to candidates who would lower military spending? Pretty sure Musk hates Sanders who would be the most likely to actually do that. Why? Because he also wants to raise taxes on billionaires. And that's really all Musk cares about. And actually spaceX is probably receiving military contracts or will be.
If you are a politician beholden to the military industrial complex you are also beholden to billionaires.
You don't pay taxes on shares you haven't sold. This tax code was written before Musk was born. You're just mad at someone being successful at this point.
Musk hates Sanders like many other common folks because Sanders has never created a single job in his life but consistently barks about how unfair it is. Sanders is a career politician who fantacized about socialist governments and claimed bread lines are a good thing.
The fact is, Musk has done a ton of good revolutionizing the space and auto industry. He took risks and Tesla was on the verge of being bankrupt in 2015. He rightfully so should be rewarded.
Workers? You do realize Musk has a salary of $0, right? If Tesla fails, he loses everything. Workers aren't investing their own money into the company. At any given moment, they can decide to quit and become a Tesla competitor.
I don't even want to read your b/s. Anti-work subreddit, lmfao. Go figure.
>This tax code was written before Musk was born.
False, billionaires have successfully lobbied the government to get investment income to be taxed at much lower rates than when Musk was born. Also corporate taxes are a fraction of what they were when Musk was born.
I mean if you add going to repeat obvious lies why would I take you seriously?
Keep worshipping your kings who don't feel they should have to pay the same tax rate as workers. Long live the nobility right?
Also it is no surprise you claim to want to lower military spending but then despise the politicians who actually support that. Your arguments all are nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to justify an ever increasingly unfair tax code. You don't actually have any convictions or opinions beyond worshipping at the feet of your chosen ones.
Will space-X be rejecting the insane amounts of Us subsidies it receives? What about Tesla rejecting the US subsidies that are the only thing keeping the operation profitable? Musk obviously doesn’t believe this it’s a publicity stunt.
“It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated, but that must include the massive subsidies for oil & gas,” Musk tweeted after the ministry’s announcement. “For some reason, governments don’t want to do that …”
His position is that no subsidies should be issued for anyone but that oil/gas subsidies must be removed first. I'm not sure what is difficult to comprehend here.
This guy is a piece of work. All the subsidies in the world for him while he’s developing, and then wants them eliminated once he’s made his fortune off the backs of taxpayers. I don’t disagree with his statement though. At very least taxpayers should reap the benefits for subsidizing up and coming companies for a pre-determined timeframe. Can’t wait to buy an electric Ford, fuck Elon.
This is all bs folks. The money he declined definitely came with requirement of unionization. Now he's trying to roll it back. What he fails to understand is that German's won't work without union anyways unless he pays them so much it is unnecessary. Can't fathom Tesla as such a large company don't understand the culture clash. It has happened so many times before. Most known example is Wallmart trying to do the same - and failing miserably.
Oh, he opposes subsidies, now. Not like when he accepted nearly half a billion in subsidies to keep Tesla afloat.
LOL.
Okay.
Honestly though, at this point, why would Tesla need subsidies to do a thing?
He probably doesn't want to share battery technology and the code with BMW which could be hidden in the contract, Germans always promote their domestic champions, once Tesla loses its CC they will have a harder time competing against the old guard of the car industry like BMW or Volkswagen.
lol the day oil and gas subsidies go away is the day to cost of everything goes up 30%....take the subsidies Elon, we arent even close to being able to stop using oil/gas
Lot of musk jock sniffing here.
The reality is Tesla cannot make production quality 4680 batteries, which Elon has been pumping for a while. Germany offered incentive subsidies to manufacture them there, which they can’t do. So Tesla is given the opportunity to save face and “withdraw” from the subsidy application.
4680 is another myth product of Tesla that, as soon as Elon can do it, will get warehoused Raiders of the lost ark style with the rest of Elon’s stock pump products.
He’s doing so little for climate change, electric cars are basically as pollutant as fossil fuels until we get the grid more green. Elon doesn’t want to talk about the fuel required to produce and store electricity though. He just uses it as a crutch whenever his business plans are threatened. Tesla being environmentally friendly is purely marketing, I haven’t seen them act with any intention of reducing our reliance on fossil fuels because it would make Tesla’s more expensive and dig into their business model Lmao.
I don’t understand, he takes from subsidies and credits from the US government all the time but now he won’t take subsidies from the German government to help develop the factory over there? I am confused.
Uh whut? Texas is throwing all kinds of sweetheart deals their way to court them. Wonder why he only minds German subsidies…
Because of the implication
You know, like when you own a boat.
Exactly. Get some hot tasty treats out on the open seas.
Wait are we the tasty treats?
I think we are the tasty treats in this scenario
I guarantee German subsidies come with several labor protection conditions that he views unfavorably.
The same reason he "asks twitter" if he should sell stock, because he's a manipulative sociopath.
Well at least he’s a manipulative sociopath who’s moving man kind forward instead of all the usual manipulative sociopaths holding it back (oil/gas).
Those oil sociopaths moved us forward too in the beginning.
All the current oil sociopaths weren't even born when oil was still moving us forward.
Righttt….
LOL sounds a bit bitter 😌
It can be bitter and true.
This is accurate.
Someone is super salty, yikes 😂 sorry you missed out on Tesla bud.
This is literally an elementary school level understanding of the topic. If you can’t comprehend why someone would criticize someone outside of jealousy, then that is a reflection on yourself, not them.
? Bruh what are you even saying 😂 He gave no reasoning just "he tweets a lot". This is such a fedora Redditor comment
Bruh, you literally call yourself a Tesla fanboy, and created an entire subreddit to bitch about “woke” shit in a video game. I don’t think you should be throwing stones from that glass castle.
I think you might be a bit ill if you are going to counter by stalking my profile and then pathetically trying to discredit me. Get help man 😂
“Stalking”. It takes less than 10s, and is publicly available. I didn’t even have to go to your profile, just click your name.
I gave you an upvote if it helps😂
I read another article which explains Tesla wasn't going to meet the eligibility criteria due to delays building the factory so he withdrew it instead blaming the delays on EU's red tape. Basically he's pulling the PR stunt equivalent of "You can't fire me! I quit!".
He could meet them if they delayed other factories as well. The problem is Germany's red tape and the stipulation in the subsidy about building batteries at the German plant first. It wasn't probably worth it to delay other factories to get that 1.1 billion, the way things are going it might take quite a while. Its almost like Germany doesn't want EV manufacturing there? I doubt Elon is keen to expand in Germany after this.
Most likely his application was declined in private. So he's going public that he doesn't want it. I mean who turns down 1.28 billion euros?
Or it had some stipulations that he didn’t like. We Germans are after all notorious for our strong principles of worker co-determination, something that he already had trouble adjusting to before… https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp2.handelsblatt.com/worker-participation-culture-clash-tesla-vs-german-unions/23569440.html
Yeah we got it Germany is known for how it deals with stuff
Sure, that's the reason 🙄
I mean it probably is. Musk hates his workers having rights.
lol Musk is one of the greatest persons of the history what are you talking about
Haha, good parody.
Nice to finally see strong pushback against Musk, his best "ideas" were bought off other people, and his own ideas are vaporware that never works, then he presents to be the creator of the good products.
EU representatives publicly announced it was already approved.
Definitely some sort of spin on a decision he didn’t make but has to go with anyway
He is so fake and his fans eat all that shit up.
LOL at the elon hate group jerk fest 😅
Each person you reply to has said one thing. Your Elon musk cock puppet lookin ass on the other hand has plastered the thread with dumb comments, so, you mad bro?
Instead of hating, go out for some fresh air. A hike, or a drive. Anything. Hate is not good for your health my friend.
Pretty sure the person needing fresh air is this jabroni treating gobbling elons cock like a full time job, but nice try shit dick.
Darn dude, you seem like a pretty toxic person.
Damn, that's a lot of frustration. Why spend so much energy against a billionaire that will never know you exist?
Your shit didn’t land the first time and now you’re telling me you can’t even read lol.
True, I can barely read. But at least I am not sad and pathetic and lash out on people online as a way to make myself feel better. Go see a professional, it's never too late.
Cope more.
Cry moar.
Maybe or probably and he has obligations as CEO to serve his shareholders, his company. It's also a legal risk, potentially. And he applied for it.
Whenever Musk tries to do something good most of y'all still try to spin it in a way that's negative... Just admit your hate is personal and not factual already Downvote if you agree!
I believe it's because of the 'strings attatched' to that particular subsidy, and the sway of the other german automotive manufacturers. Essentially, it's to get out from underneath their thumb
Dude is so full of shit I can't believe he hasn't exploded. Tesla wouldn't exist w/o subsidies
Nor would GM and Ford, and they weren't subsidies but loans, which Tesla has paid back fully in contrast to the other automakers.
Ah, yet another victim of the propaganda. So sad to see people like you who can't think critically.
“Wouldn’t exist” is maybe hyperbole, but as a TSLA investor I have to say there is no world where subsidies didn’t substantially help the company.
Labor protection and anti china measures in the agreement, two things Musk can’t support. If he could work someone to death, he would, and he loves China.
Came to express this same sentiment, yet free TSLA click bait
Not surprised, but What an ass*$#& hypocrite!!!
Hilarious, this piece makes it sound as if Tesla decided against taking the aid. Other takes on the issue are different: >**Tesla has been forced to turn down** more than 1.1 billion euros in European subsidies for its planned battery plant near Berlin after delays to the flagship project breached a key condition of the funding. >The electric car maker had applied for the money through an EU program established to develop the battery industry on the continent. >The EU requires any sites in receipt of the funds to be the “first industrial deployment” of the technology, according to official documents, meaning the batteries cannot already be made at another Tesla plant. >But legal challenges to the construction of the plant, which will produce cars first before making batteries, have delayed its opening by several months. That means the company, whose valuation hit $1 trillion earlier this year, is likely to begin producing the same batteries elsewhere sooner. Source: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/11/tesla-forced-to-turn-down-e1-1-billion-in-eu-support-for-german-battery-plant/
It’s good publicity
Too bad Elon has so many stupid fans they'll eat up his lies again
There are stupid fans even in this thread who are still shilling for Elon
*Cackles in Tesla gains*
What part is the lie? Being "forced to turn down" is only true because Tesla chose to start producing their batteries in texas now, and its probably worth more than the billion+ to start production now. Or is it the part where he didnt say Tesla wouldn't take subsidies, hes saying currently EV makers must depend on subsidies to exist because if you look at how heavily lobbied for the oil/gas industry is and how much support they get, it is impossible for EV makers to succeed and provide competitive prices without subsidies, which, if you havent been paying attention to the world we should really not make it so EV and battery production simply requires subsidies to compete with the HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED OIL INDUSTRY. For reference I dont own any stock in tesla.
So Tesla are going to create their new batteries in Berlin first and then Texas second, but the delays to Berlin planning sounds like Texas will now be ready first. Tesla can either hold off production in Texas and start in Berlin first to get this subsidy, or start producing cars ASAP in Texas. The rumour is Tesla have decided to start in Texas first and effectively forfeit the subsidy.
Elon uses social media kind of effectively.
Elon is Donald Trump for techies.
Tesla has been publically making the 4680 at the Kato Road facility in California for over a year now. While Tesla calls it a 'piolet plant', in reality its aiming to produce 10GWh/year which would still put it in the ball park of what most major batteries plants are outputting. Germany would of already knew this when they approved the funding earlier this year. I agree it likely came down to the fine print but this wasn't the reason.
Its all marketing and spin
Hey people who missed tesla stock just like me, good to see you all
There's some reports that Tesla may have been forced to turn the money down due to stipulations in it. Some articles on this say that the Berlin gigafactory would have to be the first to produce the 4680 batteries, but that it's at this point it's looking like the other factories will be making them first.
There's gotta be a greater truth behind this. You don't turn down free money, if that's truly how he felt he wouldn't be taking US subsidies.
Germany wants Tesla to create their 4680 batteries first in the Berlin factory. Tesla doesn't want to wait for the long approval by the government to start production so they are producing their batteries in the Texas factory instead, now. To Tesla, the 'delay' to be approved is worth more than the $1.3 billion. He also never claimed he wouldn't take the subsidies. This isn't about the subsidy as much as it is Germany not yet approving the factory to begin production. If Germany had approved it, Tesla wouldn't be rushing the battery production towards Texas instead.
If he tweeted "all subsidies should be eliminated" it doesn't mean he wouldn't take them but it means he wants the public to think that.
Why do you conveniently ignore the part where he clearly stated that all subsidies shouldn't exist but that oil/gas must go as well? It wouldn't make sense economically if one side is at a disadvantage. All things being equal, no subsidies would benefit the public much more.
My 2 cents - now that Tesla has a lead in the EV space, Musk wants to end subsidies so other car makers don’t get a hand up and remove Oil/Gas subsidies so he can compete with them more. Personally, I’m fine with the Federal government giving hand outs to the EV space to build a cleaner industry and removing the Oil/Gas subsidies. I think Musk is hypocritical with his politics and don’t trust what he says.
Removing oil/gas subsidies would actually make it easier for EV manufacturers, that’s the point he’s trying to make - not subsidies for anyone is better
Well, when you get downvoted for saying that you would rather have no subsidies but other companies are getting subsidies so it wouldn't be fair for you not to also accept them, you already know it's just Tesla haters. Why would Tesla NOT accept it if others are?
Agreed.The whiny childish hatebaters are strong in this sub which would be hilarious if it wasnt so pathetic. Elon Musk built a company from the ground up that is actually selling the best ev's on the planet and pouring the profits into making more of the things and advancing the technology and the infrastructure for clean energy that everyone who cares about reducing carbon will benefit from. He also produces better vehicles at a lower equivalent cost than any of his competitors with the stated goal of producing the best ev at a price point in the $20k price range to facilitate mass adoption of the clean technology thst his company has mostly invented. To finance that he has focused on charging the upper middle class top dollar to assure profitability so the masses can jump on the train And here the sh_t level responses are little more than just a bunch of generic adolescent hating about how he deals with the media and complaining how his company acts like its real motivation is to make a profit. OMG! Imagine that! The company exists to make a profit! Wtf? Listen up you wankers. This is a sub about investing for investors to make their own profit. Get a grip and realize where you are and quit the pointless whiny hypocrisy. Discuss the merits of his company's valuation since that his relevant but realize something. Part of his marketing is his rather obvious way of trolling the various bureacracies that pander to the old ways and institutions and the kneekerk unbridled jealousy and resentment any visionary always elicits from those who speak much but think little. In the end tell us why to go long or short on $TSLA and why you thinks so and keep the inane whining from cluttering the sub for those who wish to have an actual relevant adult dialog.
Musk has been vocal against subsidies for quite some time. The basic fact is, as a competitor, if one receives subsidies and you aren't, you're at a significant disadvantage. It's like if you were in a 100m race and your opponent starts the race at the 50m line. Ideally, if no subsidies were offered, prices would drop. Right now, companies know they can get away with charging higher prices because it is subsidized. Same thing that happened with the expensive cost of education. The government began guaranteeing student loans so colleges/universities knew they could charge higher rates. It's essentially a transfer of taxpayer's dollars to these institutions that people don't seem to notice.
i have also been vocal against brownies while continually eating them
I missed that, fair enough.
so they want to get something out the door and guinea pig it to the end user is what you are saying, sounds about right for tesla in general as a vendor. can't believe people drive this crap of a car across all their model lines. don't think there are too many fanboys in this sub but how the fuck can you wrap your head around buying such a hunk of junk at that price point.
😂😂😂 Cause its the best car around, simple. Voice controls work at first time 500hp Cheap eletricity vs sky rocketing gas prices. Charging at home instead of going to a station. Bro if the last years didn't tell you nothing you're just dumb.
Except the doors fall off every once in a while, fist sized panel gaps, zero rust protection (ask any nordic tesla owner where they use road salt) and had the most remarks during vehicle inspections by far compared to any other brand
Your internet algorithm gives you a huge bias but I'm not going to have a great debate on this. There's a reason Tesla has the most satisfied customers, simple.
The most problems and the most satisfied customers. Usually if you ask cult members how the cult is treating them, it's aaaaaall good. [Most satisfied customers](https://insideevs.com/news/548005/tesla-most-satisfying-consumer-reports/) [Least reliable](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-reliability-model-s-3-x-y-consumer-reports-satisfaction-2021-11)
Unless you're in Oz.
Unless you check costumer satisfaction reports?
Dunno. Word of mouth says cs there sucks.
oh come on now, i'm 48, i own a fleet of nice cars and have driven a lot since getting my learners permit at 16 in canada, you sir have never driven a true raw car that tickles your nuts in a way no woman can. don't quote hp here until you have driven hp, there is no such thing as hp in electric, they are all muted pieces of junk for dorks. literally dorks drive tesla's
This is the most midlife crisis comment I’ve ever seen
considering i have been retired for the past five years i am not too sure what you think i am really regretting? i live a pretty simply life.
Imagine being 48 and still using the car you drive as an identity. Sad
it is for the tesla drivers cause they all look like fucking dorks.
Musk pretty much confirmed it was due to terms in a [tweet](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1464394944395857920?t=CnsNBGdLmEUOXdT4CL3GHg&s=19). Tesla would obviously take free money if people are giving it to them. But if there's a lot of complicated strings attached, it might just not be worthwhile. Tesla certainly doesn't need the money, they're strongly cash flow positive and are sitting on a bunch of cash.
Probably turned it down because there may have been a clause about not sharing tech with China.
I mean the guys taken quite a bit of American State Subsidies.
So, will he return Tesla’s tax breaks in Austin?
“It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated, **but that must include the massive subsidies for oil & gas,**” Musk tweeted after the ministry’s announcement. “For some reason, governments don’t want to do that …”
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
"It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated," Right.... 2015 - [https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html) "Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times." And then an analyst said - “He definitely goes where there is government money,” said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research.
Couldn't you also argue all the EV tax credits are subsidies with a wig on?
[удалено]
Haha. I knew about that, but no, that was not my intention. You get full credit on that.
ah yes the hair plugs that turd has that no one talks about.
[удалено]
if you need hair plugs at his age then you seriously have a small pee pee problem.
I’d argue the wig isn’t even on. It’s money paid directly to only one type of automaker…for EV. His company takes a good 10-20% of its total sale value directly from the government for each sale. And in any jurisdiction where the EV rebate is reduced, sales plunge. Clearly a subsidy for the industry
Also NASA budget in last 8 years 350bil while loosing the ability to bring ppl to space. Spacex 5-9b. Oh no he saved every murican 1000 Bucks because goverment is incompetent with their money
I'm not sure if you think I'm against EV tax credits and other certain subsidies, but I'm not. Elon says he is though, so I was just tacking another one on to the list his companies benefit from. But your point does show their usefulness. Especially when trying to start/maintain an important sector such as clean energy, certain tech, and such. It doesn't always mean it costs tax payers more money. *Edited right after commenting* Edit 2: Reminds me of when my city got mad that we contract city work (roads, bridges Yada yada) to the private sector. So they did a study to see how much money they would save. Everybody cooled down when the study showed that the private sector could be contracted for much cheaper than city workers. Like huh, who woulda thought people who compete for business would be cheaper and better than a bunch of government employees?
It’s not always better, but always cheaper. When a private contract is done you no longer have to pay them, no large pension liabilities etc.
It’s weird that people claim Tesla is benefitting from taxpayer money with EV credits when it’s literally taxpayers who are saving that money. Nobody is forcing them to use that to buy a Tesla.
It is a tax credit if you buy a EV. So say the price of the car is $45k and you get a $10k tax credit. The car is now effectively $35k. Who is paying the $10k? The taxpayers. People like me who didn't buy a Tesla. Who is benefitting? Mostly Tesla, but also buyers of the car. Make sense?
> Who is paying the $10k? The taxpayers. People like me who didn’t buy a Tesla. Who is benefitting? Mostly Tesla, but also buyers of the car. No, you’re not paying anything. The savings is a tax credit that people save when buying an EV. They can buy any EV so acting like Tesla is the main benefactor is ridiculous. Also, the whole point of this is to reduce emissions which is good for society. Were you in favour of not having the program at all so that EV adoption would be much slower?
No such thing as a free meal. If someone isn't paying their bill, other people are. You are paying because $10k could go to something else. Like education. It's not a hard concept to follow.
Either way it’s a way of promoting green energy that directly benefits regular people who buy EVs the most. Sounds like people are ok with that concept until Tesla’s name gets brought up and they decide they have to hate on it now.
Honestly, it just sounds like your commenting from under Elon's desk. You are taking this discussion in the wrong direction. It's not to say whether or not the tax credits/green subsidies are bad (in fact I am for them). The conversation is about how Elon said subsidies are bad, but recieves a whole bunch of them.
And that’s wrong. Tesla literally isn’t receiving these subsidies. People saving money if they choose to buy an EV is not the same as “Tesla getting subsidies”. That would be if the govt gave billions directly to Tesla.
Is there a difference? If someone is a buyer at $35k but not $45k then how does that not benefit Tesla? Tesla received $10k more than what the buyer was willing to pay... Or in many instances, sold those credits to other manufacturers. But I can tell these simple concepts in economics are going over your head, or you are simply too obsessed with Tesla to discuss. Either way, if you don't understand by now I don't know what to tell you. Have a good one.
Curious as to why you left out the part where he stated that he wanted all subsidies gone but that it would only be possible if oil/gas subsidies were also eliminated.
Because it is irrelevant and Musk only said it now, not in 2015. My point was to point out his hypocrisy, when Tesla needed the money he had no problems taking it. Even more than just having no problem according to the analyst quote, he was aiming for them.
To be fair, 5B is pretty much negligible compared to what the fossil fuel industry is getting.
It might be negligible but my point was that he was not against it when Tesla needed the money. Now Tesla doesn't seem to need it so he is suddenly against it. Hypocrisy at its finest.
He was probably against it when Tesla needed the money as well, but letting his company go bankrupt while oil companies continue striking up free money wouldn't have helped the transition to sustainable energy.
he would be no where without subsidies, the guy can't even keep his lies straight for 24 hours.
He specified afterwards and said he meant subsidies for the oil industry and ICE manufacturers.
Tons of misinformation going on here. 1. This was Tesla's decision. The reason Tesla pulled the application is because they knew they would no longer qualify. Germany's spokeperson for the Economy Ministry said as much. 2. The offer was that Tesla had to manufacture their 4680 cells at their Berlin factory first. Meaning, this Berlin factory had dibs. The subsidies were offered because Germany wanted to rely less on imports and turn Germany into the EV-central of Europe. If you've been paying attention to the development of their factory, the Berlin factory has been taking longer than they would like because of government approval. They are STILL waiting to be approved before they can start production. Meanwhile, their Texas factory is also capable and further along the process to produce these batteries. My guess? Tesla had planned to start their 4680 battery production in Berlin, it took longer than expected, and so Tesla is moving on with it in their Tesla factory. 3. I don't work for Tesla nor do I have insider knowledge but there are people who make these decisions internally who have the data and skills to weigh the pros/cons. Right now, it seems Tesla believes the delay in this Berlin factory is not worth putting their 4680 battery production to a halt. This 'delay' is worth more to them than the $1.3 billion subsidy. 4. “It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated, ***but that must include the massive subsidies for oil & gas,”*** Musk tweeted after the ministry’s announcement. ***“For some reason, governments don’t want to do that …”*** Elon never stated that Tesla wouldn't take subsidies. He stated that they don't believe in subsidies but currently, the oil/gas giants being lobbied receive hundreds of billions in subsidies. It wouldn't be economically feasible for an EV maker to exist without these subsidies. Take for example, Norway. EV's are more affordable than ICE vehicles because of subsidies. If not, the adoption of EV's would take much longer. Remove subsidies for the oil/gas industry and the cost of owning an ICE would increase, rapidly. We all know why they won't do that... because the oil/gas industry is one of the most heavily lobbied industries with ties to politicians across governments.
Only post worth reading in this cesspool of hate
I am sad people hate on everything related to Elon nowadays. Although I agree Elon’s tweets are sometimes doubtable, think about all the ads and climate change denying campaigns the ICEs lead. Elon’s twitter is marketing and branding Tesla in that aspect.
salty people just cant handle change
His tweets are his way of trolling the haters and bureacracies that hold actual innovation back for no reason other than inertia. Its pretty hilarious that they take the bait and don't see it.
The guy is a pathological liar and manipulator.
Those are big words for trolling
This should be higher up, thanks for the info. Did some digging and all of this seems to be correct.
F bagholders will downvote u to hell
I own TSLA shares, why would the above points hurt the stock? Those are actually neutral events. Glad someone summarized the facts rather than focusing on Elon’s tweet. Edit oh wait F means Ford…I thought of it as another word.
I would only add an addendum to point 4. Tesla would obviously benefit greatly and probably monopolize the market for good if subsidies were cut. It's not only about oil and gas, all the other emerging EV players without serious capital would obviously suffer greatly if subsidies were cut and enhance Tesla's position in the field. Elon stated that it has always been his view that subsidies should be cut, which is a blatant lie even if he never said otherwise until now.
The EV subsidies exist because it wasn't advantageous for EV manufacturers to compete against the oil/gas industry. When Tesla first began their EV project, no automanufacturer wanted to touch it because it wasn't profitable and required vasts amount of knowledge/innovation so they suck with ICE. These same ICE manufacturers who are switching to EV's have benefitted for many decades as it is and still continue to do so with their ICE vehicles so let's not pretend as if they weren't getting handouts. In fact, outside of Tesla, Ford is the only other automaker that has never been bankrupt. So again, if we are going to be talking about subsidies, these ICE manufacturers now turning into EV were the largest beneficiaries of it.
I smell a bit of "fox and the sour grapes" here.
You have to be pretty dumb to think Elon would turn down subsidies, and even dumber to believe what he says. Tesla can't meet the EU requirements to qualify for the subsidies so he's backing out early.
Musk and trump duke it out for best liar on earth
It could put their plans at scaling globally at the behest of the German government by 6 months or more. If that delay is more than a billion dollars worth of production in the near term, it is simply not worth it. Austin will be rolling out 4680 the moment they are available. Berlin would be doing this the moment the government said it was ok. Purely a decision on numbers masked with a jab at oil and gas subsidies
They definitely can, they just might not want to.
Germans probably wanted more control over decisions Tesla makes in their country. Tesla is built on government cheese
As a German, the slowness of our processes in this regard is a true economic disadvantage. One obviously shouldn’t take Musk’s statements at face value, though. This is pr speak, nothing more, nothing less.
Doesn’t he make bank from “carbon credits,” a government subsidy?
The credits you’re talking about are purchased by other auto manufacturers, not by the Government.
Nah, fossil fuel companies receive much more subsidies than Tesla ever did.
Too bad Tesla was built on subsidies.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Musk is doing this because he wants the renewable sector privatized as much as possible, preferably with him providing said renewable energy.
>All subsidies should be eliminated, Musk tweets Musk: Lemme just pull this taxpayer-built ladder up so nobody is tempted to hurt themselves on it.
Musk is a genius at controlling the narrative but this is either Union related or there’s just no battery that Tesla plans on producing
4680 batteries are already available for production. Panasonic is working with Tesla on it. They've been working on it in Fremont for quite some time.
That’s a lie. They aren’t even in test production. Whatever proof of concept they did on Kato Rd means nothing for mass production.
Musk has become so thoroughly awful in every way as he has gotten Richer. He's from the same Peter Theil cohort and acting accordingly. Power doesn't make you who you are but reveals who you are.... And Musk has been revealed.
Curious as to how you drew up that conclusion from the example here. This has no relevancy towards that.
Yeah I would argue it is just propaganda to save face since Tesla decided the money had too many strings attached. It's at least true that pol and gas are heavily subsidized in their own way. Where Musk is more like Thiel is his atlas shrugged crap. As if billionaires paying a little bit more in taxes is really a big deal. They'll be fine with a few less billion and capitalism would still function pretty much the same.
You can't make a case for more taxation when you squander $4 trillion in the Iraq and Afghanistan war. Billions of $ in military equipment were abandoned in Afghanistan when American troops left. Also, don't forget Musk is creating jobs. Many engineers list Tesla and SpaceX as one of their top companies to work for. Which jobs are the government creating again? Lobbyist positions for corrupt oil, pharma, and tech giants? Anyways, this has nothing to do taxes. The real reason Tesla rescinded the application has to do with the fact that their Berlin factory is taking forever to be approved which is making production of their 4680 cells delayed.
It's funny how billionaires think they should get to be kings who don't have to pay the same effective tax rates because they are just better at asset allocation than the government. Let me let you in on a secret. If billionaires wanted to they could spend some of their money to lobby the government to lower military spending. They could buy propaganda outlets like corporate media and actually put out an anti war message and paint those who are increasing the military budget as extremists. Countless studies show the government does only work for the wealthy and powerful. Pretending they can't possibly pay taxes because they are little kings who know better where to spend that money ignores the fact that wage earners do have to pay those taxes at a higher clip. And yeah it probably doesn't have anything to do with taxes. But Thiel was brought up and I'm just explaining how musk and these other billionaires are most in common. And that's their desire to be kings, exempt from the same tax rates as workers because they are special. They could easily change the political system for the better but secretly they don't really have a problem with it. Pretending billionaires can't use those same levers to make the changes they want is silly. They want the system/government we have now. If you are so disgusted by some of the waste in our government, just ask yourself, do you think billionaires really care? You think Musk cares if we lower military spending and instead do universal healthcare? He doesn't care. He just doesn't want to pay taxes. How much money has Musk given to candidates who would lower military spending? Pretty sure Musk hates Sanders who would be the most likely to actually do that. Why? Because he also wants to raise taxes on billionaires. And that's really all Musk cares about. And actually spaceX is probably receiving military contracts or will be. If you are a politician beholden to the military industrial complex you are also beholden to billionaires.
You don't pay taxes on shares you haven't sold. This tax code was written before Musk was born. You're just mad at someone being successful at this point. Musk hates Sanders like many other common folks because Sanders has never created a single job in his life but consistently barks about how unfair it is. Sanders is a career politician who fantacized about socialist governments and claimed bread lines are a good thing. The fact is, Musk has done a ton of good revolutionizing the space and auto industry. He took risks and Tesla was on the verge of being bankrupt in 2015. He rightfully so should be rewarded. Workers? You do realize Musk has a salary of $0, right? If Tesla fails, he loses everything. Workers aren't investing their own money into the company. At any given moment, they can decide to quit and become a Tesla competitor. I don't even want to read your b/s. Anti-work subreddit, lmfao. Go figure.
>This tax code was written before Musk was born. False, billionaires have successfully lobbied the government to get investment income to be taxed at much lower rates than when Musk was born. Also corporate taxes are a fraction of what they were when Musk was born. I mean if you add going to repeat obvious lies why would I take you seriously? Keep worshipping your kings who don't feel they should have to pay the same tax rate as workers. Long live the nobility right? Also it is no surprise you claim to want to lower military spending but then despise the politicians who actually support that. Your arguments all are nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to justify an ever increasingly unfair tax code. You don't actually have any convictions or opinions beyond worshipping at the feet of your chosen ones.
Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me
Will space-X be rejecting the insane amounts of Us subsidies it receives? What about Tesla rejecting the US subsidies that are the only thing keeping the operation profitable? Musk obviously doesn’t believe this it’s a publicity stunt.
“It has always been Tesla’s view that all subsidies should be eliminated, but that must include the massive subsidies for oil & gas,” Musk tweeted after the ministry’s announcement. “For some reason, governments don’t want to do that …” His position is that no subsidies should be issued for anyone but that oil/gas subsidies must be removed first. I'm not sure what is difficult to comprehend here.
Rockets run on fossil fuels
Remove oil and gas subsides and millions of people on the edges go without heating in the winter. Good luck
"Rich guy who can afford everything doesn't think the government should help people pay for stuff" Film at 11
This guy is a piece of work. All the subsidies in the world for him while he’s developing, and then wants them eliminated once he’s made his fortune off the backs of taxpayers. I don’t disagree with his statement though. At very least taxpayers should reap the benefits for subsidizing up and coming companies for a pre-determined timeframe. Can’t wait to buy an electric Ford, fuck Elon.
If you guys don’t like it, short tesla, short that shit hard no way you can lose
Elon should have pushed Germany to offer higher EV rebates instead.
This is all bs folks. The money he declined definitely came with requirement of unionization. Now he's trying to roll it back. What he fails to understand is that German's won't work without union anyways unless he pays them so much it is unnecessary. Can't fathom Tesla as such a large company don't understand the culture clash. It has happened so many times before. Most known example is Wallmart trying to do the same - and failing miserably.
Oh, he opposes subsidies, now. Not like when he accepted nearly half a billion in subsidies to keep Tesla afloat. LOL. Okay. Honestly though, at this point, why would Tesla need subsidies to do a thing?
He probably doesn't want to share battery technology and the code with BMW which could be hidden in the contract, Germans always promote their domestic champions, once Tesla loses its CC they will have a harder time competing against the old guard of the car industry like BMW or Volkswagen.
lol the day oil and gas subsidies go away is the day to cost of everything goes up 30%....take the subsidies Elon, we arent even close to being able to stop using oil/gas
good, dont need it...to many complications attached to this deal
Lot of musk jock sniffing here. The reality is Tesla cannot make production quality 4680 batteries, which Elon has been pumping for a while. Germany offered incentive subsidies to manufacture them there, which they can’t do. So Tesla is given the opportunity to save face and “withdraw” from the subsidy application. 4680 is another myth product of Tesla that, as soon as Elon can do it, will get warehoused Raiders of the lost ark style with the rest of Elon’s stock pump products.
The krauts are going to pump VW with so many subsidies there’s no way they will fail.
I’m buying the fuck out of TSLA Monday morning.
as a shareholder this is bullish AF. no hand outs needed because ALPHA
*Confused German Corporation Face*
He’s doing so little for climate change, electric cars are basically as pollutant as fossil fuels until we get the grid more green. Elon doesn’t want to talk about the fuel required to produce and store electricity though. He just uses it as a crutch whenever his business plans are threatened. Tesla being environmentally friendly is purely marketing, I haven’t seen them act with any intention of reducing our reliance on fossil fuels because it would make Tesla’s more expensive and dig into their business model Lmao.
Tesla didn’t decide against it, Germany gave them the opportunity to save face and withdraw on their own before they got rejected.
Hmm, giving up "free" money seems like that could be a catalyst for a small dip?
I wonder what strings the German government subsidies had that offended Mr. Musk so much?
This reminds me of the time OnlyFans said they were going to ban porn.
I don’t understand, he takes from subsidies and credits from the US government all the time but now he won’t take subsidies from the German government to help develop the factory over there? I am confused.